If it means he will be bought back home more expiditiously  why shouldnt he ?

Is this straight forward or would he have to watch his back that if he did that that the Americans might throw the book at him? :-/ :-/

wrote on Mar 9^th, 2007 at 2:22pm:

If it means he will be bought back home more expiditiously  why shouldnt he ? Is this staright forward or would he have to watch his back that if he did that that the Americans might throw the book at him? :-/ :-/

it depends on how strong the evidence the US has against him is. if the evidence is weak, then David Hicks may choose to take his chances, otherwise his better off pleading guilty.

Not if he is innocent.

Why not Freediver , doesnt this kind of thing happen all the time?

Why would it be wrong  or unwise in this case?

well, if a person thinks they are innocent, why should they admit that they are guilty?

personally, i reckon if it took 5 years to get to gather enough evidence to go to court, then i'm guessing the evidence against David Hicks is weak at best. that doesn't matter, since regardless of the result of the trial, he will still be seen as a terrorist in most people's eyes.

He's probably more concerned about spending the rest of his life in jail than having his reputation ruined.

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2007 at 3:07pm:

He's probably more concerned about spending the rest of his life in jail than having his reputation ruined.

i doubt he will be free, even if he is found to be not guilty.

if his guilty, he will get life in prison (or death penalty).
but if he is not guilty, then he would probably be locked up on some lesser charge or if he is set free then he would probably be killed by someone else who thinks his a terrorist anyway.

alot of people have judged him as a terrorist already, even before his trial. i think in this case, people forget the "innocent, until proven guilty" rule.

       




i doubt he will be free, even if he is found to be not guilty.  

if his guilty, he will get life in prison (or death penalty).  
but if he is not guilty, then he would probably be locked up on some lesser charge or if he is set free then he would probably be killed by someone else who thinks his a terrorist anyway.  
-----------------------

the fact that he may be found guilty is what Im worried about, even if he thinks his chances are good, he should not chance it..if they get  a guilty verdict on him they will give him the death penalty,,,no ifs.They've( the Americans) got to make it look like they stand by their convictions after all this time of keeping him locked up..got to justify what theyve done to him.

I think he should do a deal if his lawyer thinks its the best for him...noone cares if Hicks is innocent. There is no justice American style..we all  >:( >:(know that .

[ftp][/fhttp://bendigo.yourguide.com.au/detail.asp?class=national%20news&subclass=political&story_id=564494&category=politicaltp]
 







Hicks to enter not-guilty plea
Paul Maley


SYDNEY: David Hicks would plead not guilty to terrorism charges when he fronted a judge in 11 days' time, his defence lawyer said yesterday.
The announcement of his first court appearance came as a Federal Court judge dismissed yesterday a bid by the Australian Government to stop an attempt by Hicks's lawyers to bring him home.

Prime Minister John Howard said yesterday that Hicks would appear in a US military commission for arraignment on March 20 at the US naval base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

The 31-year-old Hicks has been a prisoner at the US base for the past five years.

Hicks's American civilian lawyer, Joshua Dratel, said the former Adelaide man would plead not guilty to a single charge of providing material support to a terrorist organisation.

"What did you expect him to do?" Mr Dratel asked The Canberra Times.

Chief prosecutor Colonel Mo Davis said the purpose of the hearing would be to advise Hicks of his rights, resolve any questions about who would serve as his legal counsel and establish a preliminary trial schedule.

He said he did not think recent legal challenges to the military commissions would delay the hearing, which should only last a few hours.

"As far as I know everything is progressing and is on schedule," he said. "

----------------------------

this just in... INSANITY.

You mean that our government tried to stop him coming home?

yes that too freediver..but no more that he intends to plead 'not guilty'..prolonging his own detention isnt he?

Isnt there an investigation by the courts against the government for NOT intervening on his behalf and if this is so, which I believe it is ,,what a shameful indictment on our 'Government' that we care so little about our pple in trouble?

wrote on Mar 9^th, 2007 at 3:51pm:

yes that too freediver..but no more that he intends to plead 'not guilty'..prolonging his own detention isnt he? Isnt there an investigation by the courts against the government for NOT intervening on his behalf and if this is so, which I believe it is ,,what a shameful indictment on our 'Government' that we care so little about our pple in trouble?

i think alot of people consider David Hicks to be a traitor and so he is no longer "one of us",  and therefore he is not worth helping.

Gavin, a lot of pple perhaps..but thankfully not all the pple.


I dont think there are many American sympathisers left in th world. Although America thinks there is.

Well there are a lot of American sympathisers. Themselves.  ;)

However, back on point. An innocent man should never ever plead guilty. It's about truth, dignity and holding a governing entity to its own legal obligations. Unless of course they have your wife and kids and you're not exactly Jack Bauer...

Like most Australians, we're not convinced that the latest steps by the
Australian and US governments on David Hicks mean that much, except that
he's going to stay in Guantanamo Bay longer at this rate, without his
day in court.

View our call to action advertisement at

http://www.rightsaustralia.org.au/articles114.html

and forward it on widely to others who you know are concerned. The
advertisement calls on people to put pressure on Government MPs to bring
Hicks home for trial - not just express their concern. (You can even
re-mix the advertisement to personalise it for your friends or local
MPs.)

Also in the Current Issues section of the website, read the UN's
comments on Australia's counter terror laws.

---

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/US-document-shows-reported-abuse-of-POWs/2007/02/07/1170524142519.html

A junior US officer reported witnessing Taliban prisoners of war being sexually abused in Afghanistan weeks after Australian terrorist suspect David Hicks says he was anally penetrated by his American captors.

Documents obtained by AAP show the officer reported a Taliban prisoner was abused on February 11, 2002.

"I noticed that one of the MPs (military police) was lubricating two of his fingers preparing to perform the anal probe instead of the medical person," says the officer's sworn statement, made in Kandahar, Afghanistan.

"Without warning the EPW (Enemy Prisoner of War), and in a cruel way, he push both his fingers into the EPWs anus.

"This caused the EPW to scream and fall to the ground violently."

Hicks's father Terry Hicks said last year the Australian "suffered beatings and anal penetration".

---

SBS Insight program...David Hicks.. http://ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1172466549

Nothing surprises me.  Until a few years ago - stories like this only happened in third world countries, now we're involved.

The brutality and torture the American military are inflicting on POW's and others who may be innocent is horrific - yet it is just becoming standard practice.

I can't see David Hicks coming back to Australia alive.  If he does manage to survive, he will be mentally damaged and probably not capable of remembering anything.

How Australia managed to involve themselves in these illegal activities is beyond me.  We used to have a reputation as a decent country, yet by association with Bush, we have  lowered ourselves to the level this President has dragged the Americans down to.

David hicks is very guilty. He helped the guerilla forces in kosovo and apon returning to Australia he converted to radical islam. Then he went to pakistan where he fought indian forces in kashmere then went to afghanistan to help the taliban. He has trained with al quida (or however ya spell that camel jockey word) and fought against allied forces and that is HIGH TREASON! I say let him ROT.
And for all those muslim terrorists who have been caught in Australia there should be two choices for our government to make.

1- Retain prisoner in solitary confinement for life.
The reason i state this very harsh measure is if you only give the terrorist only a 20-50 year sentence
when he gets out,he will commit on his attack or alternatively he will convince others to do it. in solitary confinement he cannot communicate with others and therefore is rendered harmless to society.

2-Deportation.
This measure is perhaps best but has a good point and a bad point.
The good point is the tax payer will not have to pay for his upkeep and will free up room for other prisoners. The bad point is where ever he is sent he will continue his terroristic program in his new country AND there is also the chance he could return under a different guise and carry out his evil mission here.

If he really is so guilty they should have no trouble bringing him to justice. Properly, that is. After all, justice delayed is justice denied.

And if they caught any real terrorists here in Australia, I would not be giving them a get out of jail free card (deporation).

Heres my theory on why the U.S have kept him so long before trial.......
Its happened before in history!
On the 8th of november 1939 an assassination attempt on Adolf Hitler failed at the burgerbraukeller on the anniversary of the munich putsch. The would be assassin was George Elser. He placed a timebomb in one of the timber pillars just behind the podium. He had set the bomb to explode at 9:30 pm,half way through hitlers address. This night though,Hitler started his speech early due to the war at 8:10 pm and finished at 9pm.He escaped the blast.
Later that week the Gestapo caught Elser trying to cross the swiss border illegally and was searched,finding plans and watch parts.
Here's where i make my comparison.  George Elser was then sent to the Sachsenhausen concentration camp, where he was retained for the duration of the war. The plan was that when germany won the war, they would parade him to the defeated british ( hitler beleived elser was a british agent) as a humiliation to the allies. Of course germany eventually lost the war so in 1945 George Elser was moved to dachau and shot.
The U.S is doing the exact same thing with hicks, the U.S im sure planned to boast about their victory over bin ladens lot to the world. And unfortunatly the U.S is about to lose their war once Obama gets in (if he does). So as history shows, hicks will be judged very soon.(unfortunatly,not shot).

I don't think our justice system should be taking a precedent from the Nazis. Our history is full of injustice, lynchings and what have you. This is not a good reason to deny a person a fair trial, or to delay a trial unreasoanbly. I am really surprised that it is America that is behind this, given their pride in their justice system. The true measure of how just a society is, is in how fairly it treats those who are unpopular. Don't mistake the concerns of most 'left wing' people as a belief in his innocence, a desire to set him free or sympathy for terrorists. It is a concern about the erosion of justice. That is why it is a bunch of lawyers (not tree hugging hippies) that put the call to action together.

I agree with your principle 100% He should have had his trial immediately after capture and interrogation. Yes the judicial system is the main culprit, for people who murder,rape,molest children and defraud the system, they only really get a slap on the wrist. CHANGES ARE NEEDED!
And dont worry, im not at war with the left...........yet!

We shouldn't be making any judgements against David Hicks.  Most of the so called crimes have only been hearsay and media gossip.

If he had done all the things that he is being accused of - the US wouldn't have had a problem with charges.  The last lot of charges they had against him were pathetic.  It had taken them more than 4 years to come up with a lot of poppycock and they made no sense at all.

This time around they've had to rewrite their military manual and pass through a new Military Act 2006 so the charges could be made retrospective - which means they couldn't come up with anything until someone could invent a crime which sounded feasible.  

This is the new "retrospective charge:


Quote:

providing material support for terrorists under the Military Commissions Act of 2006

It seems to me that it's taken them 5 years to rack their brains on how to get around a situation where there is nothing substantial to charge Hicks with.

Quote:

providing material support for terrorists under the Military Commissions Act of 2006

Gosh I hope they don't here about our AWB exec  ;D They funnelled in more money than David could dream of.

I see the Guantanamo Bay facility as being a bit like letting the school bullies run the detention system. I would like to see David tried either in the country where the alleged crimes occurred - under their laws - or by the UN or back here in Oz. He is entitled to a fair trial in a reasonable time-frame - and that reasonable time-frame has long since expired.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/PM-using-Hicks-to-save-political-skin/2007/02/18/1171733601188.html

The Australian Greens have accused John Howard of tawdry politics over a deal with the United States to return Guantanamo Bay detainee David Hicks.

Under the deal, Hicks would be returned to Australia following his trial on terror charges by the end of this year - and possibly before the October/November federal election.

I can't see Hicks being brought back this year.  Howard is all rhetoric as usual and to put the icing on the cake, we have Costello mouthing off to the Australian public that Hicks "could have killed Australians".  Costello is a barrister and should know better than to plant these seeds of propaganda.

There was an interesting article this morning in the SMH:


Quote:

Mr Costello told Channel Ten yesterday that Mr Hicks faced very serious charges. "The charges include the fact that he armed himself and prepared himself to kill coalition soldiers - could easily have been Australian soldiers," he said. However, according to the charge sheet provided by US prosecutors, Mr Hicks left the front line where Taliban and US-backed Northern Alliance fighters were engaged after only two hours, in early November 2001. US prosecutors say he then told other fighters he was leaving the country, and that he was arrested after three weeks in hiding, after selling his weapon to raise funds to escape to Pakistan. The full contingent of Australia's SAS troops arrived in Afghanistan in December, and it was several weeks before they began operations. Indeed, one of the few differences between the first charge sheet produced by US prosecutors in 2004 and the second made public last week is that a reference to Australian troops being possible targets of Mr Hicks was removed.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/costello-points-the-finger-at-hicks/2007/02/18/1171733612758.html

These lies come from our Primeminister in waiting.

I hope he stays there forever.Rightly or wrongly our elected government of the day has gone with Bush to fight terrorism.This idiot was on the opposing force,thats treason.
3 keywords here
Elected
Terrorism
Treason
A 4th one could be idiot but that would be unkind

I am apalled that these charges have been cooked up..just when I thought America couldnt shock or appall me anymore.

I hope Mantra is wrong and after all this time he does manage to get back, either by extradition and placed in one of our jails or set free, the latter being very unlikely.

The PM is now talking "Hicks "all over the palce and yet for the previous 5 yrs , nothing.!!  ZIP.

Well pples there is an election to consider isnt there? And Rudd well Im not sure to date if Ive even heard anyhthing pass his lips re Hicks..but even so I would hazard a guess he woild make more inroads into this process than Howard ever would or want to .[font=Sans-Serif][/font]
.

 This just in
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Email Print Normal font Large font February 20, 2007 - 6:41PM

"US President George Bush is pledging to do all he can to speed up David Hicks' trial, promising the Australian will be "first in line" to get his day in court.

Mr Bush made the promise to Prime Minister John Howard during a telephone call this morning, in which he vowed to "do everything he could to make sure the process was pushed along".

"He said that Hicks was the first in the line, and he understood very much the concerns that I had," Mr Howard said.

Under growing pressure from his own backbench and aware of increasing concerns in the community over the US handling of the Hicks case, Mr Howard has put Washington on notice that it needs to act without delay.

A Crikey Morgan Poll of 400 voters in Mr Howard's electorate of Bennelong found 62 per cent of people wanted the government to ask the US to return Hicks to Australia.

Thirty one per cent believe Hicks should remain in US custody to face trial.

Mr Howard, who will raise the matter with US Vice President Dick Cheney when they meet on Saturday, said Mr Bush understood his concerns.

"He was sensitive to that," he told ABC Radio.

"I said that there could be no more significant slippage in the process of moving towards David Hicks in getting his day in court, that the concern in this country was in relation to his continued detention without trial."

Adelaide-born Hicks, 31, has been in the US military prison at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba for more than five years since being picked up in Afghanistan in late 2001.

Former military judge Susan Crawford is considering the charges recommended against Hicks - attempted murder and providing support from terrorism.

Once the charges have formally been served, there is a 120-day deadline for the military commission trial to begin.

But if Hicks' trial is further delayed by appeals outside his control, the government has hinted it is looking at alternatives to return him to Australia.

Under current laws the government cannot impose control orders to manage a situation like Hicks' return but Attorney-General Philip Ruddock says he is examining his options.

"There are difficulties and these are matters that I have to look at, if these matters are going to be pursued," he told SBS Television's Insight program.

"I am looking at all the potential options that I might have to address in various circumstances."

Mr Ruddock raised the issue of how Hicks might feel if he was brought home before getting a chance to clear his name.

But Hicks' US military lawyer, Major Michael Mori, said: "David Hicks won't complain if they bring him home (and) he didn't get to clear his name."

"David will do whatever he's asked," he said.

And as Treasurer Peter Costello urged the public not to sanctify Hicks, Mr Ruddock maintained he was entitled to a presumption of innocence"

-----------------------------------------------------------

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/bush-pledge-to-howard-over-hicks/2007/02/20/1171733756081.html

------------------


His sudden emapathy and urgency is so touching I do declare.!!

Auzgurl..

It may be another two years before we get Hicks back here.  Under the new charges being considered, two republican judges have deemed the revised military laws legal wherein Hicks trial can be judged on hearsay evidence and no right of appeal.  

I think his solicitor is now going to go to the Supreme Court again, so it will probably be a long slow wait.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/PM-blasts-Rudd-over-Hicks-case/2007/02/22/1171733940013.html

Prime Minister John Howard has accused Opposition Leader Kevin Rudd of misleading the Australian public about David Hicks' military commission trial.

The government is under pressure over the plight of Hicks, who has been held at the United States military prison at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba for five years without trial.

Former military judge Susan Crawford is currently considering the charges of attempted murder and providing support for terrorism recommended against Hicks.

However, they have yet to be formally laid.

Mr Rudd on Wednesday night indicated he would raise the matter with US Vice-President Dick Cheney, during their meeting on Friday.

"When it comes to a US military commission, it simply doesn't pass the basic tests of justice," Mr Rudd told ABC Television.

"There is no presumption of innocence.

"On top of that, you have of course, the composition of the military commission itself and the normal laws of evidence which apply."

Under the military commission rules, the use of hearsay evidence and evidence obtained by coercion is permissible.

In an unusual move, Mr Howard put out a statement rejecting Mr Rudd's comments about the military commission system.

"(Mr) Rudd falsely claimed that there would be no presumption of innocence should David Hicks face trial before a military commission," Mr Howard said.

"This claim, which he has made before, is completely wrong."

Quoting from the act which established the commissions, Mr Howard said it showed the "accused must be presumed to be innocent until his guilt is established by legal and competent evidence beyond reasonable doubt".

"Nothing could be clearer than that."

Mr Howard also disputed that the normal laws of evidence would not be followed in the military commissions.

"The military commission rules include significant safeguards," he said.

"In particular, hearsay evidence may only be admitted where it has probative value and evidence may not be adduced where it would result in unfair prejudice to the defendant."

Mr Howard added the hearsay rule was similar to those that applied to the international war crimes tribunals.

"Mr Rudd should cease misleading the Australian public about the military commission process," he said.

Let the basterd stay there.

:o...has anyone stopped to think what MIGHT happen if he is released back into Australia? We know now what he was capable of, we have read the stories of his obnoxious behavior growing up, his cruelty to animals and total disinterest in other peoples feelings..and we have read of his terrorist connections, which frankly scares the hell outa me..how safe is he going to be if he is released into public life?..not everyone believes his story of innocence, he will be a sitting duck you watch! and the scariest part, is his father lives a few streets away from ME!...
you cannot blame me or others for being concerned about having this man walk so closely among us, I mean, he was caught, so we don't know, how far he could have gone, and what if his anger for our country, after supposedly abandoning him, is so full on, he loses it and takes it out on innocent people? It cant be said that I am fabricating, because this mans mind was not like mine or anyone elses, he had a strong desire to injure and mame..maybe even more, how the hell would we know?..
This man turned his back on Australia, why the hell would he even be interested in Al Queada (s/p), if he wanted to join an army, why did'nt he join one from here?..not TOUGH enough for him?
I think they should trial him yes, get him sorted out, and throw the book at him, for turning his back on such a wonderful country, as for doing his time over here..no...I don't want to pay for him in my taxes thanks..let whoever caught him deal with him...
Damn little trouble maker if you ask me, and if he was my son, I'd throw him over my knee and give him a damn good wack for behaving like a complete git... >:(

We know now what he was capable of, we have read the stories of his obnoxious behavior growing up, his cruelty to animals and total disinterest in other peoples feelings

I haven't heard them.

For one, he tortured cats and puppies, sticking them on poles and leaving them in the sun, apparently deriving much pleasure from this, he also forced himself to eat rotten chicken to 'toughen him up' and try to fight gastro, give him a cast iron stomach, so he could survive in tough middle Eastern culture...odd, but true, it was in the newspaper, and I was also good friends with his ex girlfriends sister, we went to school together..surely everyone read wat he was like as a tenn...if I read it, I am sure others did too..freaks like this can stay away as far as I m concerned!..and hey..if you lived as close as I do to the family you would have your concerns too..its only human..if it were someone from another country who was in this situation, and he was going to eventualy move near you, would you greet him with open arms? In this day and age? With a spread sheet like Hicks, I certainly would not want to have him in my area, unfortunately I cannot do anything about that if he gets out and moves in with his parents...everything right down to property values would be affected by this man moving home to his father..why should we shoulder that burdon..but we now have no choice...

Mousee - this is amazing:


Quote:

he tortured cats and puppies, sticking them on poles and leaving them in the sun, apparently deriving much pleasure from this, he also forced himself to eat rotten chicken to 'toughen him up' and try to fight gastro, give him a cast iron stomach, so he could survive in tough middle Eastern culture...odd, but true, it was in the newspaper

I am horrified - after all the opinions and articles on Hicks, this is the first I've heard of him  torturing animals.  Why hasn't this been brought  under public scrutiny in more major media outlets.   I think you should write to the newspaper who published this and emphasise to them that we all need to hear more about his sadistic treatment of animals.  

Can you give me the source - so I can see for myself.  Obviously if he tortures animals it's possible he's a psychopath.

Have you also heard the latest that he's the golden boy of Al Quaeda?  It's amazing how this young man would now have to be the world's worst terrorist and sadist.  He's committed acts of  treachery, apostasy and conspiracy - also  betrayal, insurrection , revolt , rebellion , revolution , insurgence , subversion , sedition  and mutiny.

To think he was Australian born and raised - I'm surprised he didn't have a list of prior convictions as long as the Great Northern Highway.

Hey mousee - great posts. I bet freediver is really happy now we have a good cross section of views here. Great stuff. Give us more.
Keep hicks out of Oz.

My guess is that the remaining charge is still being pursued only because it is so vague. IF they ahd a meaningful case against him, they wouldn't have tried adding those other absurd charges.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21378296-2702,00.html

TOP Australian officials leaned on US authorities to modify the charges against David Hicks, amid concern they could not be supported and that new legal challenges would further prolong his incarceration.

The Australian Government was particularly concerned about the conspiracy charge, after a US Supreme Court ruling last June that the offence of conspiracy did not exist under military law.

They were also exasperated at some of the evidence being cited against Hicks, such as the accusation that he had carried out surveillance and "collected intelligence" on the US embassy in Kabul.

They regarded this claim as laughable, as the derelict embassy building had been empty for years and was used routinely by Afghan commanders as a location for training exercises.

In the process, Australia has kept quiet about its mounting frustration over the ham-fisted legal saga, which has finally resulted in Hicks facing a single, downgraded charge, an acknowledgement that the case against him is weaker than one might have expected of a man labelled among "the worst of the worst".

:-/...well looks like we will have to deal with him in our neighbour hood now doesn't it...if he gets out of prison in 7months. I guess he will be at Yatala Prison..all the other Prisons here in South. Aust are low security...so I doubt he will go anywhere else, either way, they will need to keep him isolated..he is not that popular around here, and I would say there would be plenty of people waiting for him out at Yatala...
I he has been tortured as he says, he could be suffering from some sort of stress disorder..I know the locals around here are worried, its a tight knit community and not too many people are happy about having him as a neighbour, in case he 'goes off' one day. Its all fair and well to prepair him for his homecoming, but what about the fears of neighbours, children, who have been witnessing all the accusations, and truths about this guy for years now....Who is sitting down with them??, and asking how THEY feel about living next door to a confessed terrorist informer...NO-ONE..they are expected to get over it..move on..yeah right, thats not so easy when you consider his history..a few people are thinking about selling up before he moves in again, because when he does, their houses will devaluate....of course, no body thinks of these things do they.....
I cannot believe, there are so many out there, willing to accept him so easily...he did turn his back on Australia after all!!

How generous of you mouse-

It might be nice if you could forget about YOU for a sec and put yourself in the place of this man-who has suffered at the hands of a cruel dictators for so long and wonderhow he is going to get on with the rest of HIS life!!


The selfishness of some pple astounds me.

again, because when he does, their houses will devaluate....of course, no body thinks of these things do they.....
I cannot believe, there are so many out there, willing to accept him so easily...he did turn his back on Australia after all!!"
-----------

who cares about houses 'devaluating'..get over it you mercenary selfish XXXXXX - you ought to be ashamed for your small minded lack of empathy for a fellow human..No matter what has been said about him.

Walk a mile in my shoes!

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21634515-601,00.html

DAVID Hicks was a bumbling wanna-be who would have been a "total liability" for al-Qa'ida in any terrorist attack.
In a scathing critique, Hicks's US military prosecutors have privately described the convicted Australian as a man of "no personal courage or intellect" who rolled over as soon as he was questioned.

And they have undermined the Australian Government's portrayal of Hicks as a dangerous terrorist by admitting that his crimes were relatively minor compared with those of his fellow inmates at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.

"I think he read Soldier of Fortune magazine too many times," said John Altenburg, the top US official in the Office of Military Commissions from 2004 to last year, speaking publicly about Hicks for the first time.

The formerly private views of the Hicks prosecutors are revealed in a new book, Detainee 002 - The Case of David Hicks, by ABC journalist Leigh Sales.

One Australian official said Hicks "talked to everybody ... ASIO, the AFP, the CIA, the FBI, M15, anybody who'd come in with a hamburger, he'd tell them whatever they wanted to know".

The prime culprit was the Pentagon which, through a mixture of incompetence and deliberate obstruction, ensured that the Hicks case proceeded at a snail's pace.

The book identifies US Vice-President Dick Cheney and former defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld as the key powerbrokers who backed the Pentagon's intransigence in relation to the Guantanamo Bay inmates.

freediver wrote on Apr 30^th, 2007 at 9:31am:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21634515-601,00.html DAVID Hicks was a bumbling wanna-be who would have been a "total liability" for al-Qa'ida in any terrorist attack. In a scathing critique, Hicks's US military prosecutors have privately described the convicted Australian as a man of "no personal courage or intellect" who rolled over as soon as he was questioned. And they have undermined the Australian Government's portrayal of Hicks as a dangerous terrorist by admitting that his crimes were relatively minor compared with those of his fellow inmates at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. "I think he read Soldier of Fortune magazine too many times," said John Altenburg, the top US official in the Office of Military Commissions from 2004 to last year, speaking publicly about Hicks for the first time. The formerly private views of the Hicks prosecutors are revealed in a new book, Detainee 002 - The Case of David Hicks, by ABC journalist Leigh Sales. One Australian official said Hicks "talked to everybody ... ASIO, the AFP, the CIA, the FBI, M15, anybody who'd come in with a hamburger, he'd tell them whatever they wanted to know". The prime culprit was the Pentagon which, through a mixture of incompetence and deliberate obstruction, ensured that the Hicks case proceeded at a snail's pace. The book identifies US Vice-President Dick Cheney and former defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld as the key powerbrokers who backed the Pentagon's intransigence in relation to the Guantanamo Bay inmates.

Ok, another beat up of David Hicks- just more hearsay and someone trying to make money of his misfortune.

Fortunately I dont believe everything I read.

Not saying Hicks is a hero or anything else, but the steady stream of nasty articles is bad form.

The only story I want to read is Hicks', that one I will pay money for.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070327/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/guantanamo_australian_detainee






suspect at Gitmo By MICHAEL MELIA, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 20 minutes ago



GUANTANAMO BAY NAVAL BASE, Cuba - An Australian accused of helping the Taliban fight the U.S.-led invasion of        Afghanistan pleaded guilty Monday to providing material support for terrorism, a step lawyers said would assure his transfer from Guantanamo to a prison in Australia.

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David Hicks, 31, was the first of hundreds of Guantanamo detainees to make such a plea at this        U.S. Navy base since the first terror suspects were brought here in 2002. On Monday, he also became the first detainee to face prosecution under revised military tribunals set up after the Supreme Court found the        Pentagon's previous system for trying Guantanamo prisoners unconstitutional.

He could be sentenced by the end of the week, military officials said. Defense attorneys said a gag order by the military judge prevented them from discussing details of the plea until a sentence is announced and it could not be immediately determined whether there was a formal plea bargain.

"If I was a betting man, I'd say the odds are good" that Hicks will be home by the end of the year, Air Force Col. Morris Davis, the chief prosecutor for the Guantanamo tribunals, told reporters after Hicks entered his plea.

In the days leading up to the hearing, defense attorneys said Hicks did not expect a fair trial and was severely depressed and considering a plea deal to end his five-year imprisonment at the U.S. naval base in Cuba.

The United States has agreed to let Hicks serve any sentence in Australia.

"This is the first step toward David returning to Australia," said David McLeod, an Australian attorney for Hicks.

The heavyset Hicks appeared at his hearing wearing a khaki prison jumpsuit. The Muslim convert shaved his beard before his arraignment but kept the long hair that his attorney says he uses to block the constant light in his cell.

His father Terry Hicks had an emotional reunion with his son before the arraignment Monday. But he already had boarded a plane to leave Guantanamo when he was told an evening session would be held and was not in the courtroom when his son entered his pleas.

Hicks' military attorney, Marine Corps Maj. Michael Mori, told the judge, Marine Col. Ralph Kohlmann, that his client was pleading guilty to one of two counts of providing material support for terrorism and not guilty to the other. Asked by Kohlmann if this was correct, Hicks said solemnly: "Yes, sir."

According to the charge sheet, Hicks spent weeks trying to join the fight in Afghanistan alongside the Taliban against invading U.S. forces and their Northern Alliance allies, the charge sheet says, but the Taliban's lines collapsed barely two hours after he reached the front. He was armed with grenades and an assault rifle and his menial assignments along the way included guarding a tank.

The count he pleaded guilty to says he intentionally provided support to a terror organization involved in hostilities against the United States. He denied the charge that he supported for preparation, or in carrying out, an act of terrorism.

The charge carries a maximum penalty of life in prison, but Davis has said he would seek a sentence of about 20 years. He said the five years Hicks has spent at Guantanamo could be considered in the ultimate sentence.

The United States is holding about 385 prisoners at Guantanamo. Among them is Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, an al-Qaida member who during a so-called Combatant Status Review Tribunal earlier this month confessed to planning the Sept. 11 attacks and other terror acts. That military panel determined he was an enemy combatant who could later face charges.

Unlike the alleged terrorist mastermind, Hicks has been depicted by the U.S. military in its charge sheet as a minor figure.

Kohlmann, wearing a black robe over his uniform, ordered attorneys to attend a closed session Tuesday in a hilltop courthouse on the base in southeast Cuba to specify the acts to which Hicks is pleading guilty. The judge will also make sure Hicks understands the consequences of the plea, officials said.

A panel of military tribunal members convened for the Hicks case must travel to Guantanamo to approve any sentence, a development that could come this week.

"We're anticipating in the next few days bringing this to a conclusion," Davis said.

In Australia, Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said he expected Hicks would return soon to Australia, where an outcry over his continued detention has cost Prime Minister John Howard support ahead of elections due this year.

"I am pleased for everybody's sake that this saga ... has come to a conclusion," Downer told Australian Broadcasting Corp. radio.

But Sen. Bob Brown, leader of the minor opposition Greens party, said Hicks made the plea so he could get out of Guantanamo Bay and his guilt would remain in doubt.

"He's pleaded guilty but under circumstances that wouldn't hold up in an Australian court and that debate will fly home with Hicks," Brown said.

The plea announcement marked a dramatic conclusion to the first hearing under revised military tribunals.

Defense lawyers and human rights groups say the new system, approved by the U.S. Congress last year, is also flawed "

Rest of article due to link not working for me




He's pleaded guilty but under circumstances that wouldn't hold up in an Australian court and that debate will fly home with Hicks," Brown said.

The plea announcement marked a dramatic conclusion to the first hearing under revised military tribunals.

Defense lawyers and human rights groups say the new system, approved by the U.S. Congress last year, is also flawed because it does not offer the same protections as U.S. courts.

"In a narrow sense, David Hicks was not legally coerced today to issue a plea, but he was operating in the background of a highly coercive system that has held him for five years and did little today to restore his faith ... in the legitimacy of the system," said Jennifer Daskal of Human Rights Watch.

At the first session in Monday's hearing, Hicks asked for more lawyers to help defend him, but Kohlmann instead ordered two civilian attorneys to leave the defense table, leaving the defendant with one attorney.

Kohlmann said the two civilian lawyers, including a Defense Department attorney, were not authorized to represent Hicks.

One of the lawyers, Joshua Dratel, said he refused to sign an agreement to abide by tribunal rules because he was concerned the provisions did not allow him to meet with his client in private.

"I'm shocked because I just lost another lawyer," Hicks said after Dratel's departure, drawing a scolding from the judge for interrupting as he explained the reasoning for removing the lawyers.

Mori challenged Kohlmann's impartiality, arguing that his participation in the previous round of military trials that the Supreme Court last year found to be illegal created the appearance of bias.

A challenge of the reconstituted tribunal system is pending before the Supreme Court. Lawyers for detainees have asked the high court to step in again and guarantee that the prisoners can challenge their confinement in U.S. courts.

Lawmakers have also questioned the detainees' lack of access to U.S. courts."

..
The thing I see as fantastic is he will be allowed to serve the rest of his sentence in Australia ,he,ll be out of there.

Yep, he's stuffed! :)

Hopefully he will come back to Australia with possibly a life sentence.  My bet is that once we change governments - Hicks will be released early.

This whole performance is just to get the US and Australia out of a tight predicament and pretend to the world they are being strong and are in control.  

this is fantastic news mantra...I was hoping he,d take a plea..and i hope your right about getting his sentence shortened when Labor gets in..



Why do you think he,s stuffed Aus Nat? :-/

Quote:

author=mantra link=1174981699/0#3 date=1174982445]Hopefully he will come back to Australia with possibly a life sentence.  My bet is that once we change governments - Hicks will be released early.

I agree with him being imprisoned here in a life sentence.

NO BASTARD SHOULD EVER LET HIM OUT.

wrote on Mar 27^th, 2007 at 6:12pm:

this is fantastic news mantra...I was hoping he,d take a plea..and i hope your right about getting his sentence shortened when Labor gets in.. Why do you think he,s stuffed Aus Nat? :-/

THIS MAN IS A TRAITOR. HE HAD INTENTION OF KILLING ALLIED SOLDIERS.


HE DESERVES THE   DEATH  PENALTY.

mmm Aus Nat..well its bound to be we will have a different veiw from time to time.

My point is nothing has been proven against him in any concrete way and so thereforeI  should reserve  judgement.

We,ve only ever had Americas version of what hes supposed to have done . Id really like to hear his side of the story and now he may get a chance Aus Nat.
I think a lot of pple would like to hear his side.And Im not saying he,s  not gulity..but Americas 'justice ' system has been a joke.

And everyone deserves fair and due to process to bring out the truth. This hasnt happened in Hicks case.This will probably never happen for Hicks.

Yes we need to hear the truth Auzgurl.  Listening to his lawyers tonight - they said by the end of the week, they should be able to tell the public the reasons behind his admitting to one of the charges.

Bob Brown of the Greens - along with Natasha Stott Despoya were the only politicians to come out and give their views to the public.

Bob Brown - who I admire because he isn't afraid to stand up to Howard or Bush - said that Hicks' guilt is in doubt,  but John Howards' isn't.

Yes I saw that mantra ...

I just want to  get him back and hopefully THEN the truth will come out.And I can guarantee Howard will be squirming at what may come out after Hicks gets back to Aus.

This man has been villified by everyone with a half baked opinion based on Americas propoganda machine., its time HE SPOKE.

A lot of pple have been waiting for this and if it meant he needed to plead guilty to get out of that hole well so be it.


Its crystal clear that he only said it to escape and who could blame him?    NOT ME.

He has a right to be heard., its called free speech..and a lot of pple on here advocate free speech and everyones right to exercise it.


I support humanitarian issues surrounding the inhumane detainment of David Hicks and those who denied him due process and his basic human rights--- thats all.He is a human being and an Australian wether some of us like it or not.



Im glad David is coming home....welcome home David. :)  I know I will upset ppl with this but I do have a right to feel glad for David. :-?

Listening to the news this morning Auzgurl - it seems that somebody might be up to tricks.  Hicks has admitted his guilt, apparently to get back to Australia and today he has to write down everything he allegedly did - as if they hadn't got that information after 5 years of torture.

I wouldn't be surprised if when he's formally given a verdict - he is carted off to India to answer charges there.

Don't forget the Indian government is very cosy with Australia and the US and all of a sudden these new allegations have been raised.  

They don't want him back here.

I wonder what exactly this means mantra? To 'write down exactly what he has done'...this would go against what they said , that he could come back to Australia to serve his sentence..But you know after everything it wouldnt surprise me...Americans are so corrupt. >:(


5 yrs and they havent got his story yet?????    Indeed!

David Hicks will make millions from his books and film, magazine etc articles for many years on whatever the outcome is.

David Hicks acted like a mercenary and was caught supporting the wrong side. Whether he deserved Guantanamo Bay I doubt it, but should he be banned from selling his story so he can continue to support, financially his cause with the taliban? Should he become rich off his crimes?

He would have plenty of islamic allies that will probably turn up at the airport to greet him. Keeping in mind David Hicks was fully aware of what he was doing and had atleast 6 months to leave the middle east. He made a conscious decision to stay. This makes him guilty in my books and that is exactly how he pleaded.

Aiding and abetting makes you just as guilty of the end result or crime. Never forget that. The only thing he had going for him was the general public support and the fact that we don't like seeing Australians in prison overseas. He became an icon for anyone who didn't believe in the war. If he wasn't Australian the public would have kept their focus on Shapelle Corby instead and found other ways to protest against the war.
:)

David Hicks will enter our prison system and spend his time recruiting inmates for the Taliban. Prisoners are vulnerable to this type of person.

Be very wary because you will see a rise of islamic converts being released from Australia's prisons over the next few years. Murderers etc. will embrace his teachings because it allows them to commit their crimes without guilt in the name of allah!

Bringing him back to Australia was a stupid idea and we have, once again, the goody two shoes people to blame. David Hicks is dangerous, not physically just because of what he represents and the type of people that will look up to him. >:(

Hope he stays in an Indian jail for an extended stay.  They won't let him go for decades.

Yep, in an aussie jail, he would get a reception from others there.
The guards would not notice either. I heard what happens to p@edophiles and r@pists inside.
Picture it, these guys are angry and locked up for a long time, seperated from their kids and wives/girlfriends. Along comes someone who harms those they miss dearly.  
In the same way, these guys have been denied their freedom for a while, along comes someone who wanted to deny their freedom for a longer time.
Inmates may have been unlucky or made bad decisions in their lives, but they ain't fools.

Hicks is between a rock and a hard place.

A good example to anyone else.

Your talking out your rear end SprintCyclist.  ;D ;D ;D

If David Hicks has leadership qualities the existing Muslim population will bow before him. Inmates are susceptible to anything that is anti establishment.

Comparing Hicks with how peodophiles and rapists are treated only shows how uneducated you are in this area. Rapists,for one, walk in mainstream population as one of the boys since the mid eighties.

If they rapists are segregated it is for other reasons.

I know a guy that was inside and is "involved" with crims a bit.

his comments and examples were paedoplhiles do very tough time inside. Hence their segregation.
I would not want to be a rapist, sharing a cell or courtyard with guys who have been isolated from their wives for a while. Not a good situation to be in.


have no idea how many muslims are inside in aussie. I would guess very few.

my rear end has been quite vocal lately   :)

enviro wrote on Mar 29^th, 2007 at 6:43pm:

David Hicks will enter our prison system and spend his time recruiting inmates for the Taliban. Prisoners are vulnerable to this type of person. Be very wary because you will see a rise of islamic converts being released from Australia's prisons over the next few years. Murderers etc. will embrace his teachings because it allows them to commit their crimes without guilt in the name of allah! Bringing him back to Australia was a stupid idea and we have, once again, the goody two shoes people to blame. David Hicks is dangerous, not physically just because of what he represents and the type of people that will look up to him. >:(

Enviro-

This sounds a bit hysterical to me I have to say.This wont happen-David was not and is not a terrorist!

Even if what you say IS true to some extent well it it goes far deeper than you would like to think.Governemnts are responsible for the widening social gaps and isolations between the rich and poor. Low socio economic groups are victims of lack of social justice for everyone, not just the priveledged. Those who live in disadvantage and have to struggle ,suffer isolation by Governments through lack of opportunities provided for them. No education, no slice of the easy life that they the Politicians and theyre  nosed kids enjoy.

These low socio econmic groups are breeding grounds for resentments and for those who want to to rise up and rebel against it.

Just look at the Virginia Tech massacre of late. He, the Koren student, had resentment toward spoiled rich American kids.

Dont blame the victims . Put the blame where it belongs.

Oceans_Blue said
Quote:

This sounds a bit hysterical to me I have to say.This wont happen-David was not and is not a terrorist!

As I stated previously he had 6 months before the US attacked so he had every opportunity to get out. This alone states that he supported their cause. Supporting terrorism is a terrorist act.

My point is, which is out of Hicks control, is that prison inmates, not all of them of course, will want to get to know him. He is an experienced soldier trained in killing. After all this is what he went over there for. He knows terrorist figures, aka crime figures, that other violent prisoners may want to know about. Terrorism hides itself in the underworld. If an inmate wants guns David will be able to stear them in the right direction. If they want military training David will be able to stear them in the right direction etc.

There are people that will look at him as being some type of martyr. David Hicks brings terrorism to Australia.

Yes he pleaded guilty and yes there are people that say he copped a plea to get out of G-Bay. Whatever your belief is do not be blind to the fact that he returned to Pakistan and had ample opportunity to escape but no, he bee lined for the front knowing what the consequences were.

Guilty or not guilty, he will have a lot of new friends for all the wrong reasons. The Islamic population of whatever prison system he is placed in will learn from him. they will learn information of the Taliban network, they will learn where other like minded people are in Australia and they will hold him in great esteem for what he has gone through in their name.

Violent criminals, sickos etc. will flock to his side. This is not being hysterical, this is an observation of an eventual possibility.

If David Hicks does time here he should not be in a position to influence others. he should be segregated at all times and be banned forever on talking about his experiences. We all have an idea of what goes on in G-Bay let it stay an idea, don't throw a match on the tinder or it might end up burning you and everyone else.

Jack The Ripper didn't come from a low socio economic group and niether did Hyde.

Many people who are extremely wealthy today came from a low socio economic group an example is Crazy John. Studies show that coming from a low socio economic group actually benefits the individual as it makes them street wise and more socialy adaptable for the future.

Well Enviro ,

That was very balanced wasnt it? Hyde and the Ripper no less..hardly representative of society as a whole are they? What couldnt find any other credible examples?Well done.

Dont cherrypick my post. It has a number of important points.

Awfully sorry for debating with you Ocean_Blue but your post was an attack on my post. Forgive me I'll go twiddle my thumbs somewhere else. ;D

Hang on! Isn't this forum about debating? Gee, maybe you're in the wrong place and not me?

You painted a Hyde and Ripper scenario I just returned with the characters. Please outline the important points in your posting as I can't find them... Oh wait, something about socio economic gee, most terrorist funding come from the wealthy, they didn't grow up poor. :'(

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/NSW-cracks-down-on-Islamic-prison-gang/2007/04/22/1177180455182.html

Some of the most dangerous criminals in NSW have converted to Islam and formed a gang inside jail.

The gang's members are all incarcerated in Goulburn Jail's Super Max, which has the highest security rating in Australia.

The NSW government has launched a crackdown on the gang, which will now be monitored 24 hours a day because of security fears, Fairfax reports.

One in three inmates of the Super Max have reportedly converted to Islam, and pictures of al-Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden have been confiscated.

The gang members, with shaven heads and long beards, are known as the Super Max Jihadists and are led by convicted murderer Bassam Hamzy, Fairfax reports.

"We have to be able to control every movement and every utterance because of the threat they pose," NSW Attorney-General John Hatzistergos told Fairfax.

"We don't want to see any risk to people either inside or outside the system.

"We simply can't take our eye off them."

---

Code-breakers probe 'Islamic' jail gang

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Codebreakers-probe-Islamic-jail-gang/2007/04/23/1177180541382.html

Translators and code-breakers are examining the phone conversations of a group of Islamic inmates in Australia's highest security jail who are believed to have formed a gang behind bars.

Twelve of the 37 inmates in the Super Max facility at NSW's Goulburn jail claim to be practising Muslims, including a number of Aboriginal converts, raising security fears among officials.

Mr Woodham said prisoners had received regular payments of about $100 which appeared to be from family members.

But on closer inspection, the payments were revealed to have been organised by Hamzy through his outside contacts.

"The officers are using a term down there now at Goulburn Jail: 'Pay to pray'," Mr Woodham said.

Oceans, we are putting the blame where it belongs

[code]Dont blame the victims . Put the blame where it belongs.
[/code]

With those that hold weapons to kill others.

The Americans went soft on him.
He got off light, could have easily been killed on sight.
Should have been given 20 years.
Hope his 7 years does not include the 5 in a brand new B @ B all built for his likes.
Prob gets 3 meals a day, legal team all paid for.

SSshhhheeessshhhh , how cruisy. No wonder he has put on weight. A good bit of hard labour would do him no harm. The sponger.

Sprint,


and you are a christian?

This is hypocrisy .

SC - it may appear Hicks got off lightly because of the media coverage recently, but let's be realistic.  Do you think that the Americans who worship the death penalty and are best buddies with Howard - would really have given Hicks only 9 months if they believed he was a terrorist.

Howard would have had a quiet word in Bush's ear and told him that he didn't want Hicks released and Hicks would have stayed in Guantanamo for the duration of the War on Terror - probably our lifetime.

Howard has an election to campaign for so a deal has been made because he wants Australia to think he is a fair man.  Hicks can get out of jail by the end of the year - but he is not allowed to talk to the media for 12 months under any condition.

If our current affairs programs ran with stories of Hicks imprisonment and torture during Howard's campaign - well it wouldn't be a good look for him, would it?

Clearly the case against him was weak as piss. He was held for five years, 'coerced' into admitting things, a kangaroo court set up specifically to try 'terrorists' in which legal tenets like habeus corpus did not apply, hearsay and conjecture became truth, evidence extracted through torture suddenly became legitimate coercion and valid truth (despite all logic)... and under all this, 9 months was the BEST they could do? To say that under the last 6 years of Bush hardline policy against terrorists... which still holds... an administration adamant that they will do anything to ensure they are seen as doing the right thing, to suggest that under these circumstances they suddenly went soft on Hicks is idiotic.

Seems pretty obvious to me...? weak....as....piss....  THEY HAD NO CASE realise this... Hicks did not do anything. He may have meant to do something, but he never did it. That doesn't make him guilty.

Besides the man was fighting for a legitimate government at the time! Not a terrorist organisation the bloody Taliban government. He was a war criminal by definition and they KNEW they had no evidence against him for this charge BECAUSE HE DIDN"T DO ANYTHING!

you are completely spot on zoso  :)  they had no case!!!!!

Hicks did have training for a few terrorist organisations. He wrote home and boasted about it to his Dad.
("Where else in the world can a tourist be given a gun and be allowed to shoot people")
His own dad never even denied that,.
He joined a terrorist group in Pakistan (LET) and also in Afghanistan (AQ).

Straight after 9/11 he flew to afghanistan to report for duty. Who would do that ??
he was given his own muslim name. mohammad dawood.
he was given a weapon, about 50 rounds of ammo and a few hand granades.
He was guarding a tank for a time, got bored and went off to 'find some more action". In his own words .
He did find action, and ran.

Those are the facts.
He provided material support for terrorists against USA.

suck eggs sprint- he got off and he will be a free man by New yrs eve 2008!!!

Sprintcyclist wrote on Mar 31^st, 2007 at 9:48pm:

Those are the facts. He provided material support for terrorists against USA.

And personally did nothing. The hardline military tribunal has acknowledged the severity of his crimes and punished him accordingly...

"worst of the worst".... just repeat that to yourself a few times...

Quote:

Straight after 9/11 he flew to afghanistan to report for duty. Who would do that ??

He was already in Pakistan, the neighbouring country.


Quote:

he was given his own muslim name. mohammad dawood.

So were Cat Stevens and Cassius Clay. Are they terrorists too? Its part of becoming a muslim.


Quote:

he was given a weapon, about 50 rounds of ammo and a few hand granades.

I would hope so, he was a soldier. Or are muslims supposed to fight with wooden swords?


Quote:

He was guarding a tank for a time, got bored and went off to 'find some more action". In his own words. He did find action, and ran.

The Taliban wouldn't let him fight on the front line. Hicks was a flake who could not follow orders. Would you put him on the front line?



SC, you are missing the whole point of Hicks being detained at GITMO. The Bush government said all those housed there were terrorists, and not only that, they were the worst of the worst.

Hicks is immature and uneducated. He was looking for acceptance, and wound up getting suckered into a war in Afghanistan.

He admitted to aiding the enemy, and for that he was given a 7 year sentence, reduced to 9 months on the proviso that he aided the prosecution in future cases.

There is no doubt that what he did was wrong. The issue here is the length of his detention, and the denial of justice. The fact is, he was given a 9 month sentence, which indicates that he is of NO THREAT TO ANYONE. He will be a free man in 2008. If there was any suggestion that he was a terrorist, do you really think he would be allowed back on the streets?

Hicks can get out of jail by the end of the year - but he is not allowed to talk to the media for 12 months under any condition.

That is disturbing.

Besides the man was fighting for a legitimate government at the time!

But he was an Australian citizen. That's different.

He was a war criminal by definition and they KNEW they had no evidence against him for this charge BECAUSE HE DIDN"T DO ANYTHING!

Did you mean to say POW?

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2007 at 7:45am:

Did you mean to say POW?

Probably!  ;D

"suck eggs sprint- he got off and he will be a free man by New yrs eve 2008!!! "

CORRECTION - New Years Eve 2007!!

ozpolitic.com

Posts: 278
Gender:
 Re: Hicks got off light
Reply #2 - Mar 31st, 2007, 5:17pm    SC - it may appear Hicks got off lightly because of the media coverage recently, but let's be realistic.  Do you think that the Americans who worship the death penalty and are best buddies with Howard - would really have given Hicks only 9 months if they believed he was a terrorist.

Howard would have had a quiet word in Bush's ear and told him that he didn't want Hicks released and Hicks would have stayed in Guantanamo for the duration of the War on Terror - probably our lifetime.

Howard has an election to campaign for so a deal has been made because he wants Australia to think he is a fair man.  Hicks can get out of jail by the end of the year - but he is not allowed to talk to the media for 12 months under any condition.

If our current affairs programs ran with stories of Hicks imprisonment and torture during Howard's campaign - well it wouldn't be a good look for him, would it? "
--------------------------------

Good post mantra ---

Id also like to add that I believe the information oput out by the media at present re- if Hicks can or cannot talk to the media or tell his story is deliberaletly complicit so as to confuse Hicks-The out come being that Hicks breaks his deal under his plae bargain conditions and is taken back to the states--Hicks has been set up and I hope he says nothing and just dissappears into  the horizon when hes free.


A trap has been laid out for Hicks-.This will come to pass. These 2 evil Governments arent finished with him yet.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Hicks-to-be-monitored-after-release/2007/04/08/1175970920127.html

David Hicks will be monitored by Australian authorities after he is released from prison, Attorney-General Philip Ruddock says.

Mr Ruddock on Sunday indicated Hicks, who has admitted to aiding al-Qaeda, was likely to face constant surveillance after his release from jail in Australia.

If the attorney-general consented to the order and a judge agreed, Hicks could be required to live in particular places, report to authorities and be restricted in whose company he could keep, he said.

He vowed the Australian government would not permit Hicks to profit from selling his story.

Mr Ruddock said it was unlikely the US could enforce an order gagging Hicks from speaking publicly about his treatment at Guantanamo Bay.

"How they might go about it, if they sought to involve us, would presumably involve extradition law," Mr Ruddock said.

"And I don't think under our extradition law there would be a capacity to return him to the United States jurisdiction for that purpose."

http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Hicks-wont-speak-to-media-for-a-year/2007/04/20/1176697046331.html

Australian David Hicks - the first person convicted by the US of war crimes since World War II - will keep a pre-trial agreement preventing him from talking to reporters for one year, his lawyer says.

Did anyone see Sixty Minutes where Tara Brown tried to get the Hicks children and Jodie Sparrow to rubbish David on national TV?

What a horrible person would she be..how disgusting is she?

No matter what the world say about David..he the father of those kids who still loves theyre dad and does Jodie Sparrow.


Giving the 3rd degree to CHILDREN, to rubbish theyre dad. I still cant believe it.Jodie said they will give david another chance and Im pleased he can have his family with him again.


this is journalism..this is public humiliation .

Email me when someone replies to this thread   Hicks was 'AL Queda Operative'..posted on 11 jan 07 - 9:39 am by auzgurl But the US prosecutor has said Mr Hicks, 31, must be held accountable before the military commissions being set up by the Pentagon.

"David Hicks attended basic training, the al-Qaeda basic training, (and) went back for repeated advance courses in terrorism," Col Davis has told Fairfax newspapers.

"He knew and associated with a number of al-Qaeda senior leadership. He conducted surveillance on the US embassy and other embassies.

"He eventually left Afghanistan and it's my understanding was heading back to Australia when 9/11 happened.

"When he heard about 9/11, he said it was a good thing (and) he went back to the battlefield, back to Afghanistan, and reported in to the senior leadership of al-Qaeda and basically said, 'I'm David Hicks and I'm reporting for duty'."
==================================================
Prosecutors are saying Hicks was a fully fledged member of Al Queda..well they would would'nt they..after all this time what are they going to say?


Although Kelvin Thompson wants Hicks bought home and placed under a stricy control order..
But US prosecutor said he must stay face and face the Military Commissions at the Pentagon-

What hope has he got of receiving a fair trial in America?
=================================================
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21042164-401,00.html


Nicky07....avatar

I didn't realsie you were the same person.

You should be able to set up automatic notification. There is a check box at the bottom when you compose a new post. Also, there is a 'notify' button.

What I had in mind was just posting a few responses back and forth to check the speed.

I just finished watching the Insight program on SBS and the discussion surrounded the detainment of our David Hicks.

There was Phillip Ruddock ,Hicks Lawyer, David Mori and Reps from Guanatanomo etc.

It highlighted most of all and quite emabarrassingly how the Aust. Government has done NOTHING to help his cause OR bring him home.

It makes me hot under the colllar I have to say!

It is repeated Friday this week and Ithink again on Saturday...



For anyone interested in the Hicks case..its compelling veiwing..there comments from other Guantanamo prisoners as well.

I meant comments from ex Guantanamo prisoners......................

---

Call to action on David Hicks http://ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1170817283

Hicks in 30 years time......

---

Aussie Nationalist, r u suggesting that David Hicks will get off those terrorism charges his being held over and would live for another 30 years? i don't think so.

by the way, the Ayatollah is a shi'te muslim, which David Hicks fought against as a member of the Taliban (who are Sunni muslims).

if ur going to hate the guy (or muslims), the least u could do is try to identify the different types of muslims out there. u do realise that Iraq is such a mess because of Sunni vs Shi'te muslim conflict, don't u?

I also doubt he's queer  ;)

I was waiting for that to strike someones nerve!
I am anti-islamic, i dislike ALL types of muslims.
Sunni's, shites, kurds, etc...
if they dont practice islam, just a nominal muslim then i have no problem.
Hicks should be hung for treason.

FD, i know he's not queer, just havin a go at him ;)

Well look at that, I tricked aussie nat into using the PC term.  ;D

Aussie nationalist....

Hicks should be hung for treason"
---------------------------------------------------

This is on the suppostion that Hicks IS GUILTY OF ANYTHING!!!!!

So quick to judge and on what?

It all a crock...

Queer means strange, so its not really politically correct!
Besides fd, i was quoting you.
Auzgurl, read my statements in ''call to action on david hicks''. my explination is there.
Also news of late, reveals al-quiada (bloody camel jockey word) thought of hicks as their ''golden boy'' for his enthusiasm to kill westerners.
The reason he did'nt get to kill allied soldiers was he was in the wrong place due to lack of leaderships tactical plan.

The father of terrorist suspect David Hicks says Prime Minister John Howard pressured the US government to lay charges against his son for his own political gain.

After five years in detention, Hicks has been charged with "material support for terrorism" and referred to trial by a special military commission at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

Judge Susan Crawford dismissed a second charge of attempted murder against Hicks after concluding there was no "probable cause" to justify the charge.

Hicks' father Terry Hicks said he felt no relief that the charges had been laid, and had no renewed faith in the federal government over the progress in Hicks' case.

Hicks' defence team had expected the attempted murder charge to be dropped, he said.

"To me it's still looks as if they want this over and dealt with and finished before the (federal) elections," Mr Hicks said.

Mr Howard again raised the issue with the US government when he asked Vice-President Dick Cheney, during his visit last week to Sydney, when Hicks would be formally charged.

"Even though Mr Howard says it's not a political issue, I believe it is," he said.

"I think Mr Cheney's visit over here was an appeasement (to Mr Howard).

"I think the situation was already in progress anyway and whether he come over or not, David's thing was going to be dealt with anyway."

Hicks is the first detainee at Guantanamo Bay to be charged under a new US law authorising special military trials of "enemy combatants."

The 31-year-old Muslim convert was captured in late 2001 in Afghanistan where he was alleged to be fighting for the Taliban against US forces after the September 11, 2001 attacks.

If convicted, Hicks could face a maximum sentence of life imprisonment.

His father repeated earlier comments that any trial set up by the US government would "not be a fair process" because hearsay and unsubstantiated evidence could be used against his son.

"The thing that annoys me is when you have people commit murders they're out in about eight years and David could have the process of life imprisonment," Mr Hicks said.

He said he was yet to speak to his son's US military lawyer Major Michael Mori, but expected to do so shortly.

"I suppose I've got to have a change in outlook to see how the process is going to go with this system but I have no faith in it," Mr Hicks said.

"It's not a good set up. I've just got to wait now and see what the next step is going to be."

Hicks and his defence counsel will be served a copy of the latest charge, setting the clock in motion for the new trials at Guantanamo Bay.

Hicks must be formally arraigned within 30 days of being served. A military judge has 120 days to assemble a military commission to try him and advise lawyers of the trial schedule.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/070218/2/12glg.html

I thought John Howard was pushing the issue in the hope of it would lead to David Hicks release, after all the Nation has asked him to do this. He just can't win from people like this.
:o

Broadcast: 13/06/2006

Hicks 'severely damaged', says CIA expert
Reporter: Tony Jones


TONY JONES: Well, Alfred McCoy is Professor of history at the University of Wisconsin. In 1972 he wrote The Politics of Heroin: CIA Complicity in the Global Drug Trade,, which is now regarded as a seminal work on the CIA's complicity in Asian drug trafficking. His latest book is A Question of Torture: CIA Interrogation from the Cold War to the War on Terror, which examines the CIA's development of psychological torture over the past 50 years. And in an article in the latest edition of the Monthly magazine, he turns his attention to the treatment of David Hicks in Guantanamo Bay, which he says must be viewed through the lens of CIA torture techniques. Well, he joins us now from Madison Wisconsin. Thanks for being there and can I first get your reaction of the suicide deaths at Guantanamo Bay on the weekend?

PROFESSOR ALFRED MCCOY, UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN: The two statements, one by Admiral Harris and the other by the State Department official that this is an act of asymmetrical warfare, that this is a good PR stunt, is indicative of the Guantanamo mentality. Guantanamo is not a conventional military prison. It's an ad hoc laboratory for the perfection of the CIA psychological torture. Guantanamo is a complete construction. It's a system of total psychological torture, designed to break down every detainee contained therein, designed to produce a state of hopelessness and despair that leads, tragically, sadly in this case to suicide. The statements by those American officials are indicative of the cruel mentality at Guantanamo.

TONY JONES: Those are pretty dramatic statements you are making. I would have to say, though, the Red Cross is about to go and do an urgent inspection of the prison and it does appear that their reports back in 2004 do back up a lot of what you are saying. They also decided that what was happening at Guantanamo Bay amounted to a system of torture.

PROFESSOR ALFRED MCCOY, UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN: They argued that it wasn't just isolated cases. They said that the entire system of treatment of detainees, designed to do one thing, and one thing only - extract information - constituted a system of cruelty, a system of torture. No qualification, not tantamount to torture - a phrase they'd used before - but torture per se. Confinement at Guantanamo constitutes torture. The question is, what kind of torture? It is psychological torture. Not the conventional, physical, brutal torture, but a distinctively American form of torture - psychological torture.

TONY JONES: I'm going to come to the history of how you say that form of torture was evolved by the CIA. Can I first go, though, to some of the most compelling testimony I've read in the account you've given recently in your essay to the Monthly magazine and that comes from FBI officers who visited Guantanamo Bay. Can you tell us, first of all, why they were visiting and why they were writing these reports"

[ftp][fthttp://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2006/s1662218.htmp]

;) :)

;) :)

Australia's most famous terrorist thinks Osama bin Laden's a bit of alright.  Does anyone recall the hoopla from loonies who thought Hicks was just a misguided boy?  Here's their opportunity to befriend him - he may be on their street soon with a nice sack of fertiliser.


Quote:

Hicks thought Osama was 'lovely', court told In letters read out in court, David Hicks said he met Osama bin Laden many times.  A court has been told that convicted terrorism supporter David Hicks thought that Osama bin Laden was a "lovely" man. Hicks also claimed to have been involved in killing soldiers in Kashmir. Sections of letters by Hicks have been read to the Federal Magistrates Court in Adelaide, as Federal Police applied for a control order. Hicks has served almost nine months in Yatala prison in Adelaide since his return to Australian from Guantanamo Bay in Cuba and is due for release from custody at the end of the month. Police have asked that Hicks face a curfew, email and phone restrictions and be required to report to authorities three times a week, restraints his lawyer has argued are unnecessary. A lawyer for Federal Police read out parts of letters Hicks wrote to his parents from 1999 to 2001. Met Osama many times Hicks wrote that he had met Osama bin Laden about 20 times. "He's a lovely brother - the only reason the West call him a ... terrorist is because he got the money to take action." He wrote about training with the Pakistani group Lashkar-e-Toiba and described how he and three other people fired grenades at Indian soldiers in Kashmir, killing two. "With my experience in Kosovo and Kashmir, slowly I am becoming a well-trained, practical soldier," one of the letters said. Hicks also explained Jihad and martyrdom to his mother, writing: "If dad rings and says 'Do you know your son is dead? say 'Congratulations'." But lawyers for Hicks argued the letters were written long ago and that a United States military court had already accepted that Hicks did not kill anyone. Federal Police have argued a control order is needed to protect Australians and people in other countries from terrorism. The judge is expected to deliver a ruling in Adelaide tomorrow. Anyone for a terrorist penpal?

http://news.smh.com.au/hicks-must-renounce-terrorism-lawyer/20071230-1jii.html

David Hicks won't be taken seriously until he renounces terrorism, a prominent human rights lawyer says.

George Newhouse, who acted for wrongly-detained Australian citizens Vivian Alvarez and Cornelia Rau, said Hicks also had to renounce anti-Semitic views.

"He needs to reassure Australian Jews that he no longer wants to rob or kill them," Mr Newhouse said.

Hicks, 32, was freed from Adelaide's Yatala jail on Saturday after completing a sentence for providing material support to terrorism.

Hicks allegedly expressed anti-Semitic views to Feroz Abbasi, a fellow detainee at the US military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

Abbasi, according to memoirs published in Time magazine, said he trained with Hicks at al-Qaeda camps in Afghanistan.

Abbasi wrote that Hicks had said he wanted to "go back to Australia and rob and kill Jews", crash a plane into a building, and "go out with that last big adrenalin rush".

"He once told me in Afghanistan that if he were to go into a building of Jews with an automatic weapon or as a suicide bomber he would have to say something like 'there is no god but Allah' ect [sic] just so he could see the look of fear on their faces, before he takes them out," Abbasi wrote.

Mr Newhouse, 45, is a prominent member of Sydney's Jewish community. He is co-founder of the Jewish Labor forum, former Mayor of Waverley, in Sydney's east, and was the Labor candidate for the seat of Wentworth in the recent Federal election. He said Hicks needed to reassure Australian Jews that his views had changed.

Mr Newhouse said the Hicks case presented Australians with a "difficult conundrum".

"Hicks has admitted to supporting terrorism, his actions were violent and his philosophy offensive but the delay in bringing him to justice took too long," he said.

He represented Alvarez and Rau, who were wrongly detained by Australia in immigration centres.

I'm sure there are lots of idiots who would put him up though.  Look at the hue and cry over the terrorist when he was in Gitmo.  I feel sure there are many who would like to make amends for what they see as 'unfair treatment'.  Funny though, where are they all now?  I don't see many offers of accommodation for the criminal.

I still reckon they should give him to India and let them put him in gaol.

This sounds like a nice excuse.  


Quote:

Hicks 'not skilled enough' to say sorry The Fairfax journalist who met David Hicks after his release from jail says she believes he would find it hard to communicate with those who expect him to apologise for his actions. The journalist, Penelope Debelle, says the convicted terrorism supporter appears to have reflected on his actions during his time in detention and jail. Mr Hicks had been expected to make an apology when he was released from Adelaide's Yatala prison on Saturday. However a statement read by his lawyer after the release thanked supporters, but added only that Mr Hicks was not strong enough to speak. Ms Debelle says her brief meeting with Mr Hicks and his father Terry yesterday confirmed that Mr Hicks' re-adjustment to society would be a slow process. "Having met him, [it] is very obvious he's not a confident enough person, he's not socialised in an easy way," she said. "He's just not skilled enough - socially skilled enough - to deal with unwanted attention." Holy Jihad Batman

How is it he is skilled enough to shoot at a sovereign country's soldiers but can't manage the necessary skill to mouth the word 'sorry'.  What a load of cobblers.   Just who does this journo think we are?

deepthought wrote on Jan 1^st, 2008 at 10:17pm:

This sounds like a nice excuse.   Quote: Hicks 'not skilled enough' to say sorry The Fairfax journalist who met David Hicks after his release from jail says she believes he would find it hard to communicate with those who expect him to apologise for his actions. The journalist, Penelope Debelle, says the convicted terrorism supporter appears to have reflected on his actions during his time in detention and jail. Mr Hicks had been expected to make an apology when he was released from Adelaide's Yatala prison on Saturday. However a statement read by his lawyer after the release thanked supporters, but added only that Mr Hicks was not strong enough to speak. Ms Debelle says her brief meeting with Mr Hicks and his father Terry yesterday confirmed that Mr Hicks' re-adjustment to society would be a slow process. "Having met him, [it] is very obvious he's not a confident enough person, he's not socialised in an easy way," she said. "He's just not skilled enough - socially skilled enough - to deal with unwanted attention." Holy Jihad Batman How is it he is skilled enough to shoot at a sovereign country's soldiers but can't manage the necessary skill to mouth the word 'sorry'.  What a load of cobblers.   Just who does this journo think we are?

Deepthought when the the media machine seek to influence   public opinion..they target pple like you.

You are so easily bought. Heart, mind and soul. Sad.

wrote on Jan 5^th, 2008 at 8:30am:

Deepthought when the the media machine seek to influence   public opinion..they target pple like you. You are so easily bought. Heart, mind and soul. Sad.

Yes, I believe everything the media says.

Wait a minute . . . . . I voted Liberal.   :D

http://news.smh.com.au/close-guantanamo-bay-says-david-hicks/20080111-1lez.html

David Hicks wants the US military prison at Guantanamo Bay to be closed, fearful his former fellow detainees will never receive justice, his father says.

Hicks was detained by the US at the prison in Cuba for five and a half years, mostly without charge, before pleading guilty to providing material support for terrorism last year.

Rallies have been staged worldwide to mark the sixth anniversary of the incarceration of Hicks and other terrorism suspects at Guantanamo Bay.

freediver - david hicks is a traitor and terrorist.
By his own lettes and confession

he is still a muslim, so I can not see that his stance has changed.

can you ?

He wasn't jailed for being a muslim sprint.

Correct.

he was jailed for terrorism
That came about directly through him becoming a muslim.
He is still a muslim.

Where is the change ?

Being a Muslim and being a terrorist are not the same thing. Inability ot distuinguish the two is part of the problem.

http://news.smh.com.au/guantanamo-has-damaged-us-top-officer/20080114-1luy.html

The top US military officer says he would like to see the detention centre at Guantanamo Bay closed because its image has damaged America's international standing.

But Mullen, the chairman of the US military's Joint Chiefs of Staff, said closing the prison posed major legal problems.

Many governments, including close US allies, have urged Washington to shut the detention centre for terrorism suspects, which took in its first inmates almost exactly six years ago.

Since then, only one prisoner - Australian David Hicks - has been convicted through the system of war crimes tribunals set up to try Guantanamo inmates, and that was the result of a plea bargain.

---

Waterboarding 'would be torture': US intel czar

http://news.smh.com.au/waterboarding-would-be-torture-us-intel-czar/20080114-1lsy.html

US intelligence czar Mike McConnell equated waterboarding with torture in an interview released Sunday, but denied that the United States tortures terror suspects during interrogation.

"Waterboarding would be excruciating," the US director of national security, in overall charge of intelligence, said in the interview in the New Yorker magazine, speaking of the simulated drowning technique that many regard as torture.

"If I had water draining into my nose, oh God, I just can't imagine how painful! Whether it's torture by anybody else's definition, for me it would be torture," he said.

When asked to define torture, McConnell replied: "My own definition of torture is something that would cause excruciating pain."

While denying that US officials sanctioned the torture of terror suspects, McConnell told the New Yorker that the Central Intelligence Agency's "special methods" of interrogation had yielded "meaningful" intelligence.

---

No comment on Hicks profits, says Rudd

http://news.smh.com.au/no-comment-on-hicks-profits-says-rudd/20080201-1pep.html

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd says it's not his place to determine whether former Guantanamo Bay detainee David Hicks should be allowed to profit from selling his story.

Hicks is reportedly fielding lucrative offers for his story and could be paid up to $1 million in a major test of proceeds of crime laws.

Up to 30 different TV networks and publishers, from Australia and overseas, have made contact with his Adelaide-based lawyer, according to The Australian newspaper.

---

MPs warn Hicks not to sell his story

http://news.smh.com.au/mps-warn-hicks-not-to-sell-his-story/20080201-1pep.html

The federal government expects legal authorities to take strong action against David Hicks if the confessed terrorism supporter breaks the law by trying to profit from his story.

Federal Attorney-General Robert McClelland released a brief statement saying he would expect swift action from authorities against any Australian who broke the law.

"With the benefit of competent legal advice, David Hicks pleaded guilty to serious charges relating to his involvement with a terrorist organisation," Mr McClelland said.

"Australian law prevents a person from profiting from criminal conduct.

"We would expect the authorities to take swift and vigorous action against any Australian who breaks the law."

---

Hicks doesn't support terrorism: Smith

http://news.smh.com.au/hicks-doesnt-support-terrorism-smith/20080204-1pwz.html

Convicted terrorism supporter David Hicks is a decent Australian who has never supported terrorism, adventurer and businessman Dick Smith says.

During Mr Hicks' incarceration at Guantanamo Bay, Mr Smith campaigned for a fair trial for the Adelaide man, who was transferred to a South Australian jail last year, from which he was released in late December.

Since his release, Mr Hicks has contacted Mr Smith and the two met last week.

"I was going to Adelaide so I rang David and said, `Can I come talk to you because you're looking for a job and I'm happy to help with that but I'd want to get some answers to some questions'," Mr Smith told ABC radio in Sydney.

"I believe he is basically a decent Australian like his father, that we know well, and I don't believe he's ever been a supporter of terrorism.

"I asked him why he was in Afghanistan and it was quite different to what we've heard about ... (it was) all about trying to help independence movements.

"One of my views has changed completely and that is ... he shouldn't earn any money from this.

"But I've changed my view completely now because he's said he's never supported terrorism and most journalists I talk to and all lawyers say that the particular plea bargain is just terrible because he would have agreed to anything to get out of there (Guantanamo)."

Mr Hicks is reportedly fielding offers from about 30 media organisations worldwide to tell the story of his capture in Afghanistan and his more than five years in Guantanamo Bay.

A media gag order on Mr Hicks, imposed by the US court, expires at the end of next month.