An article about an American (of course) arguing that urban sprawl is a good thing and leads to a higher quality of life:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Urban-consolidation-will-hurt-Aussies/2007/06/15/1181414531317.html

Limiting suburban growth around cities is threatening the lifestyle of Australians, an American expert says.

Controversial urban planner and demographer Wendell Cox, who is based in St Louis, Missouri, is urging Australian governments to radically overhaul plans to control future population growth through urban consolidation.

Mr Cox said moves to combat urban sprawl were making housing less affordable and creating heavily congested and polluted areas that offered less desirable lifestyles.

Mr Cox said fears about suburbanisation ruining green space were flawed, considering 99.7 per cent of Australia was not urbanised.

"I'm not suggesting we have a free-for-all ... there are all sorts of places you would want to protect from development," he said.

"But generally you want to allow development to occur in a lot of places and let the market determine where it's going to occur.

What a bloody moron. THIS IS NOT AMERICA. Australians love their space, they dont want to be crowded in like sardines.

I cant believe he said that, look at chicago, New york etc...  SLUMS.

We are different people to Americans.

They have stuck their noses in before- Booz/hamilton.  They destroyed the NSW Railways.

Ausnat wrote on Jun 15^th, 2007 at 5:48pm:

What a bloody moron. THIS IS NOT AMERICA. Australians love their space, they dont want to be crowded in like sardines. I cant believe he said that, look at chicago, New york etc...  SLUMS. We are different people to Americans. They have stuck their noses in before- Booz/hamilton.  They destroyed the NSW Railways.

You might want to re-read FD's post AN. He advocates space ie do not over-restrict urban sprawl. I'm inclined to agree with him. The load needs to be spread.

Ausnat wrote on Jun 15^th, 2007 at 5:48pm:

What a bloody moron. THIS IS NOT AMERICA. Australians love their space, they dont want to be crowded in like sardines. I cant believe he said that, look at chicago, New york etc...  SLUMS. We are different people to Americans. They have stuck their noses in before- Booz/hamilton.  They destroyed the NSW Railways.

Thats absurd..I agree with you Aussie. ;)

So you didn't read it either?  ;) ;) ;)

IQSRLOW wrote on Jun 15^th, 2007 at 7:03pm:

So you didn't read it either?  ;) ;) ;)

So i cant have my own opinion, if it doesnt agree with yours ? :o

Ewe can have your own opinion, but your opinion wasn't your own...ewe just agreed with what AN wrote, and he misread the original post.

That is baa...baaa...baaad

:D

take it easy you dont have to criticise everything oceans says.

i am a much better target.

Classic Liberal wrote on Jun 16^th, 2007 at 1:07pm:

take it easy you dont have to criticise everything oceans says. i am a much better target.

thank you pender :)

There is  nowhere left to spread around our major cities.  Already we have cut into our national forests, mountains, eliminated parks and torn up farmland.

Instead of everyone wanting to hover around cities and the coast, we really need to move more industry into the country with good incentives to encourage people and professionals to move there.  

Country towns are desperate for more people and productivity.

mantra wrote on Jun 16^th, 2007 at 2:11pm:

There is  nowhere left to spread around our major cities.  Already we have cut into our national forests, mountains, eliminated parks and torn up farmland. Instead of everyone wanting to hover around cities and the coast, we really need to move more industry into the country with good incentives to encourage people and professionals to move there.   Country towns are desperate for more people and productivity.

Exactly right Mantra- that is the basis of my point IQ.

if the governemnt based more of its companies out in the country that would be a start.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/NSW-city-country-divide-widening-Stoner/2007/06/16/1181414597039.html

NSW is at risk of becoming a two-tiered society where Sydneysiders relate more to those in London and New York than they do to their country cousins in Dubbo or Ballina, NSW Nationals Leader Andrew Stoner warns.

Mr Stoner said globalisation and the global economy had increased the divide between the city and country in a way that could undermine social cohesion.

His comments came during his address to the Nationals state conference in Singleton, where in a first for the party, time was set aside for an information session and discussion on climate change.

mantra wrote on Jun 16^th, 2007 at 2:11pm:

There is  nowhere left to spread around our major cities.  Already we have cut into our national forests, mountains, eliminated parks and torn up farmland. Instead of everyone wanting to hover around cities and the coast, we really need to move more industry into the country with good incentives to encourage people and professionals to move there.   Country towns are desperate for more people and productivity.

We have one of the most sparsely populated countries coupled to an extremely large coastline, there is plenty of room to move...it's just that self interest and environmental groups like to block development by invoking the NIMBY clause and wrap it in a feel good environmental perspective to garner support.

When it comes to town planning, I really don't care that there is miles and miles barely inhabited desert in the inland. I want green space in the cities. I want cities that are planned properly around public transport and other infrastructure. The best example of Cox's town planning philosophy is Los Angeles. Trust me, you don't want our cities ending up like that.

Classic Liberal wrote on Jun 16^th, 2007 at 4:24pm:

if the governemnt based more of its companies out in the country that would be a start.

this is right pender , as Australias overall populations grow we will have to consider moving into the country..like it or not. But then I guess water will largely  dictate where that will be.

mantra wrote on Jun 16^th, 2007 at 2:11pm:

There is  nowhere left to spread around our major cities.  Already we have cut into our national forests, mountains, eliminated parks and torn up farmland. Instead of everyone wanting to hover around cities and the coast, we really need to move more industry into the country

Into the national forests, mountains, 'eliminated' parks and torn up farmlands????

there is always room in arnem land

IQSRLOW wrote on Jun 16^th, 2007 at 10:24pm:

mantra wrote on Jun 16th, 2007 at 2:11pm: There is  nowhere left to spread around our major cities.  Already we have cut into our national forests, mountains, eliminated parks and torn up farmland. Instead of everyone wanting to hover around cities and the coast, we really need to move more industry into the country Into the national forests, mountains, 'eliminated' parks and torn up farmlands????

whats not to understand..? reads very clearly .

I must have missed the memo that states 'national forests, mountains, 'eliminated' parks and torn up farmlands' are the sole domain of  major cities'

NIMBY Urban eco-warriors ::) ::) ::) The greening of the world by taking the path of least understanding  ::)

IQSRLOW wrote on Jun 17^th, 2007 at 10:36am:

I must have missed the memo that states 'national forests, mountains, 'eliminated' parks and torn up farmlands' are the sole domain of  major cities' NIMBY Urban eco-warriors ::) ::) ::) The greening of the world by taking the path of least understanding  ::)

IQ ,

Come again, didnt quite catch that...I do believe ,again, your just churning out generalised bullshit.

Why am I not surprised  ::)

The space above your head should be declared a flight path. Everything just goes straight over it.

IQSRLOW wrote on Jun 17^th, 2007 at 10:51am:

Why am I not surprised  ::) The space above your head should be declared a flight path. Everything just goes straight over it.

slipping

Quote:

There is nowhere left to spread around our major cities. Already we have cut into our national forests, mountains, eliminated parks and torn up farmland. Instead of everyone wanting to hover around cities and the coast, we really need to move more industry into the country

Yes IQ - why would you even need that explained?  There have been ongoing battles for years with the NSW government and quite a few with the Commonwealth over the encroachment by developers into land that should have been permanently protected.

Farms in the outlying areas of Sydney have been subdivided and sold off to developers, mountains (there's one at the end of my street) which Council told residents would never be developed is covered in new houses.  This is going on everywhere.

Public parks have disappeared in many areas to accommodate housing and the recent controversy in regard to the development of land in Western Sydney for new homes made news for months.

All caused by NIMBY attitudes

IQSRLOW wrote on Jun 17^th, 2007 at 11:57am:

All caused by NIMBY attitudes

well if you follow this link IQ..there is a person on the other end who can expalin that to you      mellister@gmail.com.


Go ahead, it will all make sense to you then. ;)

oceanz wrote on Jun 17^th, 2007 at 12:03pm:

IQSRLOW wrote on Jun 17th, 2007 at 11:57am: All caused by NIMBY attitudes well if you follow this link IQ..there is a person on the other end who can explain that to you      mellister@gmail.com. Go ahead, it will all make sense to you then. ;)

Still haven't mastered this intardweb thingy have you  ::)

IQSRLOW wrote on Jun 17^th, 2007 at 12:05pm:

Still haven't mastered this intardweb thingy have you  ::)

very evasive...telling I have to say.

Being evasive would require you to ask an intelligent question and you have fulfilled neither requirement of intelligent or question.

I don't expect this will change any time soon given your track record of idiocy and paranoia combined

Many people buy a house because of green space within walking distance. If local councils change the rules and subdivide what was previously understood to be permanent green space, those people get ripped off. The developer makes a killing, but the surrounding neighbourhood is worse off.

Some people buy country property for those very same reasons.

Most of us have to make do with shared green space and can't afford to own our own. That doesn't mean we should have to make do with no green space. Sharing green space usually results in a much smaller ecological footprint.

freediver wrote on Jun 16^th, 2007 at 9:49pm:

When it comes to town planning, I really don't care that there is miles and miles barely inhabited desert in the inland. I want green space in the cities. I want cities that are planned properly around public transport and other infrastructure. The best example of Cox's town planning philosophy is Los Angeles. Trust me, you don't want our cities ending up like that.

Right on! There actually is plenty of space though, its just not in the capitals! If people in this country looked beyond the capital cities they would find loads of suburban space in the regional centres which are all crying out for population. I think the thrust of the state government plan to limit sprawl is to force people out into the regional cities, making them into real cities as they should be. As a nation we are far too focused on the 7 capitals.

Quote:

Right on! There actually is plenty of space though, its just not in the capitals! If people in this country looked beyond the capital cities they would find loads of suburban space in the regional centres which are all crying out for population. I think the thrust of the state government plan to limit sprawl is to force people out into the regional cities, making them into real cities as they should be. As a nation we are far too focused on the 7 capitals.

Exactly right. Good call.