Hi everyone..


a topic started by me..

The topic was why dont men express feelings?



That feelings inside men are very rarely resolved due to the societal pressures placed on men to be "macho"..have a steely reserve if you like..to be man like and never show any softness for fear of appearing weak in the eyers of other men and women too.


I say its not healthy, that men need to learn that stress and anger are directly related to health problems and could be the reason women outlive men.

Men mostly die of cancers, heart attacks, stroke, suicide etc.

Why heck most men think going to the Doctor is weak.

below is a partial post of mine and then followed by a guys opinion.


so where does the pain go if its not expressed?

It stays within and will result in failed and dysfunctiional relationships- suicide for some men and deep unhappiness for others.

Every feeling has to be acknowledged and expressed or it will turn inward and begin to destroy us, little by little
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
guys answer


http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2006/04/22/troops_wideweb__470x365,2.jpg


Not true. Despite their fabled ability to express their feelings, women have not proven to be better able to resolve their issues than men. That's because whether you openly express your feelings or not, you still have to resolve them. It's those unresolved issues that stay trapped inside.

Men do acknowledge their feelings. To themselves. We have different coping mechanisms from women. That's all. We internalize stuff. We deal with them. And we move on. Because we have to.

Just because we no longer live in caves does not mean that we have changed all that much evolutionarily and genetically speaking. Basically, if a man broke down every time a woman rejected him, he lost a family member or the antelope got away during the hunt, the species would have died out long ago. It's something that's hard-wired and socially reinforced.

The thing to remember is that humans were meant to be a two-gendered species. Each gender has its own roles and its own traits. Men are not dysfunctional women. We're just different. We do things differently. And maybe our way wouldn't work for you, but it works for us.

Of course, that doesn't mean that men should not try to be better at expressing their feelings. Or that women should not try to be better at containing their feelings. It just means that it's not our natural tendencies.
its clear men do experience and feel these

quote:

"Men die younger than women on average. The reason could be right here."



Again, not true. The reason women have had a historically higher life expectancy is that men have had historically higher risk factors. But now that there are more women driving, working, drinking, smoking, in military service, etc., the life expectancy gap is narrowing.

Women are more likely to report depression. Women are more likely to commit suicide. So what does that say about openly expressing your feelings all the time? Again, probably nothing. But one could make the same argument...

I think this topic is going to be like pulling teeth..men dont like talking about theyre vulnerabilities.

yes, the media driven image of clint eastwood , sylvester stallone etc hammered hom ehte strong silent type.

Men feel a lot. Till recently we had not been encouraged to express it.
A great loss to us and women unfortunately.

My thought was men asttempt suicide much motre often tham women, we are also more 'successful" at our attempts.


men together do express themselves very well.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2007 at 4:40pm:

yes, the media driven image of clint eastwood , sylvester stallone etc hammered hom ehte strong silent type. Men feel a lot. Till recently we had not been encouraged to express it. A great loss to us and women unfortunately. My thought was men asttempt suicide much motre often tham women, we are also more 'successful" at our attempts. men together do express themselves very well.

I think you are right Sprint and you have been saying this for quite some time if I recall.

Men out here are the strong silent type.  This is the place where i became acutely aware of how oppressed men are in this regard.

In this town men live by a strict code of "live hard, die young".. They say he died doing what he loved and I question in my mind "at 19 what was that ..drive headlong into a tree at 140 ks an hour running from the cops !!..Im sure that what he always wanted"..

The local cemetary is full of young pple killed in auto accidents, mostly alcohol and drug related..they dont seem to learn though..when a death such as this occurs all the young get drunk and "off tap" for a week..more than the norm., and the norm is pretty bad.


The older men model this behaviour to the younger men.

Women are inferior , to show them softness makes you a "pu ssy". A real man  works hard, drinks hard.

Men dont talk about feelings. they simply get drunk, or out of it .

I find it very frustrating.

I hate that saying "he died doing what he loved."
Remember when the yacht race had a lot of fatalities, I heard that and the nght "what, drowning ? "

many of the drunk road deaths I consider a form of suicide.
depends how often they did it, exactly what they were doing etc etc.

alcohol denies the sensitive side of men. hence alcohol gives that "inferior women" attitude inmany hard drinkers.
many alcoholics are very intelligent sensitive emotional men. The alcohol "helps" us/them to keep those overwhelming emotions at bay. We stay in control.

alcohol is the insidious drug.
it is directly positively associated with most crimes and many accidents, most violence.
Alcohol often can't be blamed directly for the problem, but it is normally nearby or all around it.

that toughman joking attitude of (drinking) aussie men keeps emotions safely hidden.

it would be very frustrating, and disappointing for you.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2007 at 5:09pm:

I hate that saying "he died doing what he loved." Remember when the yacht race had a lot of fatalities, I heard that and the nght "what, drowning ? " many of the drunk road deaths I consider a form of suicide. depends how often they did it, exactly what they were doing etc etc. alcohol denies the sensitive side of men. hence alcohol gives that "inferior women" attitude inmany hard drinkers. many alcoholics are very intelligent sensitive emotional men. The alcohol "helps" us/them to keep those overwhelming emotions at bay. We stay in control. alcohol is the insidious drug. it is directly positively associated with most crimes and many accidents, most violence. Alcohol often can't be blamed directly for the problem, but it is normally nearby or all around it. that toughman joking attitude of (drinking) aussie men keeps emotions safely hidden. it would be very frustrating, and disappointing for you.

I know Sprint, its rediculous..Im sure he was just dying to drown ever since he was a little boy.. pun unintended.It is a stupid saying but still very overused..Peter Brock also died doing what he loved too-as did Steve Irwin...apparently.

Im not sure I know if and when the hardwiring can be undone Sprint. Countless generatiions of hardwiring will take some undoing.

Where does one start.?



Just because we do something we love I dont think we neccessarily want to die doing it.

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Rose Men's Health Resource
How To Fight & Conquer Stress

Stress is an inescapable part of modern life. That's the bad news. The good news is that stress isn't altogether bad news. In metered doses, it can be helpful...it can even make you better at what you do, and help give you the competitive edge. It's the major-league, non-stop, never-let-up stress you have to watch out for. Because, man, it can kill you.

What is stress?
Stress is an adaptive response. It's the body's reaction to an event that is seen as emotionally disturbing, disquieting, or threatening. When we perceive such an event, we experience what one stress researcher called the "fight or flight" response. To prepare for fighting or fleeing, the body increases its heart rate and blood pressure; more blood is then sent to your heart and muscles, and your respiration rate increases. This response was probably beneficial to our cavemen ancestors who had to fight off wild animals. But today, stress itself has become the "wild animal." Untamed and allowed to run rampant in our lives, it can destroy our health.

The modern male's response to psychological stress differs little from the way our primitive forebears reacted to dangerous animals or other sources of potential physical harm (i.e., with surges of adrenaline, a rise in blood pressure and heart rate, and a 4x increase in blood flow to the muscles needed to fight or run away.)


But today, there are few wild animals to contend with, unless you happen to work in a zoo or live out in the wilds somewhere. Our stress response is more likely triggered by overwhelming responsibilities at home or work, by loneliness, or by the fear of losing our jobs.


Not only is uncontrolled stress harmful to our bodies in and of itself, but it can also lead to unwise behaviors such as alcohol and drug abuse, which place us at even greater risk, health wise. It can also jeopardize our relationships, by leading to emotional outbursts and, in some cases, physical violence.


What causes stress?
Major causes of stress include illness, job changes, moving, separations and divorces, deaths in the family, and financial difficulties. But even joyous events, like marriage, the arrival of a baby, or entertaining guests, can be stressful.

Top 20 stressors in life

Death of a spouse
Divorce
Marital separation
Jail term
Death of close family member
Personal injury or illness
Marriage
Fired at work
Marital reconciliation
Retirement
Change in health of family member
Pregnancy
Sex difficulties
Gain of new family member
Business readjustment
Change in financial state
Death of close friend
Change to different line of work
Change in number of arguments with spouse
Mortgage or loan for a major purpose

When you're feeling overwhelmed -- or encounter a major stressor of some kind in your environment -- your adrenalin kicks in and your sympathetic nervous system takes over. Your body is suddenly prepared for action. But when there's no dinosaur to slay or damsel in distress to rescue, your body reacts with heart palpitations, sweating, increased stomach acidity, stomach spasm, skeletal muscle spasms -- and increased blood pressure.

This is OK up to a point, but if it goes on too long and your body doesn't have any "down time," you could be in for trouble. Researchers tell us that stress may play a role in the development of high blood pressure, though more studies are necessary to tighten up the connection.


Stress also appears associated with heart disease, even if a direct causal relationship has yet to be proven.


Stress/tension and hypertension
Tension and hypertension are not the same thing. Hypertension is the medical term for high blood pressure. You can have high blood pressure without feeling stressed or tense. However, continual stress may lead to permanently elevated blood pressure.

The positive side of stress
Stress is not bad in and of itself. It may help to make us more alert, energize us, or give us a motivational kick in the pants. For years, actors, entertainers, public speakers, and athletes have known how to turn stress into "high energy" performances. Properly harnessed, stress can indeed work to our advantage at times. But chronic, big-time stress can make us big-time losers...losers of health and wellness.

Aside from taxing the body, excess stress can also tax the mind and lead to poor health decisions, such as the abuse of alcohol or drugs or other self-destructive behaviors.


"Good" and "Bad" stress.
What are the differences?
Good Stress is a balance of arousal and relaxation that helps you concentrate, focus, and achieve what you want.


Bad Stress is constant stress and constant arousal that may lead to high blood pressure, cardiovascular disease, and worse.


How common a problem is excess stress?
Stress is epidemic in American life. In nationwide polls, 89% of Americans reported that they often experience high levels of stress, and 59% claimed that they feel great stress at least once a week.

Sometimes, stress gets so bad that people "burn out" -- that is, they either lose the ability to function or function in an impaired manner. And while being under stress isn't always an accurate predictor of who will or won't burn out, it is certainly a contributing factor.


A five-year study of the American workforce conducted by the Families and Work Institute showed that 30% of employees often or very often feel burned out or stressed by their jobs, 27% feel emotionally drained from their work, and 42% feel used up at the end of the work day. Balancing work pressures and family responsibilities leaves many workers feeling burned out.


Stress and your immune system
The fact that psychological stress can trigger or alter the course of illness has long been apparent. Emotions, obviously, can affect the autonomic nervous system and, secondarily, heart rate, sweating, and bowel peristalsis (wavelike movement resulting from the contraction and relaxation of muscles in the walls of the digestive tract). For years, such phenomena were observed and studied under the banner of "psychosomatic medicine."

Now, a whole field of research and study has blossomed to investigate the relationship between psychosocial events and the immune system. It's called psychoneuroimmunology. Its proponents think that stress is involved, in some way, in the suppression of the immune system, which protects us from disease.


If stress is associated with immunosuppression, then stress management techniques should be useful in preventing, or at least tempering, the impact of stress on health, so the thinking goes. Certainly, stressors in life may sap our resistance and put us at greater risk for disease.

If stress is associated with immunosuppression, then stress management techniques should be useful in preventing, or at least tempering, the impact of stress on health, so the thinking goes. Certainly, stressors in life may sap our resistance and put us at greater risk for disease.


Quick tips for managing stress

Avoid hassles
Control change
Take a break
Find help/access resources
First, define your stressors
To master stress, you must first clearly identify the situations in life that make you stressed and tense (your stressors). To identify these stressors, become more aware of your body in different situations. Ask yourself, "Does this person, place, or thing...

Make my muscles tense?
Make my heart pound?
Make my hands cold and clammy?
Give me a 'knot' in my stomach
Give me a headache?
Give me a backache?
Make me sweat?
Cause me to break out in a rash?"
Step two is making a concerted effort to avoid these stressors. If that's not realistically possible, take steps to lessen their effect on you (i.e., neutralize them). Learning to relax in the face of your stressors may be your most valuable weapon. Give yourself a break. Walk and talk more slowly. Give yourself time to meet deadlines and complete your work. Learning to relax takes a little practice. But it's well worth it, and soon you'll know exactly what to do to replace the stress response with the "relaxation response."

Things you can do to relax

Deep breathing
Stretching
Exercise
Clearing your mind
Progressive muscle relaxation
Use these simple relaxation techniques to slow down, relax, and rejuvenate your mind, body, and spirit.

Stress and your heart
The role of stress in causing heart disease and heart attacks remains controversial. Most experts believe that while stress doesn't cause heart disease, it may contribute to the overall risk.

"Type A" personalities and heart disease
It has been hypothesized for years that if you are hostile and aggressive and find it difficult to relax, you may be at higher risk for coronary artery disease. Recent research has failed to confirm that personality directly causes coronary artery disease. Nonetheless, being a hostile personality type may increase your risk. This may be particularly true if you're a "hot reactor" -- that is, someone who exhibits extreme increases in heart rate and blood pressure in response to everyday stress.

While evidence to date does not suggest that stress management strategies can be the sole therapy to prevent or treat cardiovascular disease, some stress reduction techniques, when used regularly, can be a valuable adjunct to other behavioral, dietary, and medical interventions for reducing the risks of heart disease.


Other measures include weight control, avoidance of smoking, regular exercise, lower fat intake, and reduced sodium and alcohol consumption.

Oceans - I often feel that men have to help other men in undoing the hardwiring.
Having a woman there seems to be unhelpful .

That is not an antiwoman comment.  Is just how us men can be helped the most/quickest.


Perhaps the same as when women have a girls night out. having any men there would spoil it ?

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2007 at 3:37pm:

Oceans - I often feel that men have to help other men in undoing the hardwiring. Having a woman there seems to be unhelpful . That is not an antiwoman comment.  Is just how us men can be helped the most/quickest. Perhaps the same as when women have a girls night out. having any men there would spoil it ?

maybe your completely correct Sprint and I agree..but someone has to broach the subject at least, who chooses to run with it is another matter..

If you want to do this Id be happy to give over.

Stress is a condition that effects both man and women.

A shame there are not more advocates in the world for men who are like you Sprint.

Im not suggesting it is women who can solve this hardwiring..but it has to kick off at some point by someone.


As long as it gets done.

It all comes down to this simple fact.....  MEN ARE THE BEST :D

oceanz wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2007 at 3:06pm:

.... Top 20 stressors in life Death of a spouse Divorce Marital separation Jail term Death of close family member Personal injury or illness Marriage Fired at work Marital reconciliation Retirement Change in health of family member Pregnancy Sex difficulties Gain of new family member Business readjustment Change in financial state Death of close friend Change to different line of work Change in number of arguments with spouse Mortgage or loan for a major purpose

Wow. I have experienced 10 of them in the last 3-4 years. And i dont think i am generally too stressed out.

Connie - cripes , that is a rocky road you have had lately.

I've had about 4 in the past 4 years. Looking to another 1 or 2 in the next year  too


oceans, thanks for your supportive words. seeing what you have seen must be terrible.

cautious connie wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2007 at 6:30pm:

oceanz wrote on Jul 23rd, 2007 at 3:06pm: .... Top 20 stressors in life Death of a spouse Divorce Marital separation Jail term Death of close family member Personal injury or illness Marriage Fired at work Marital reconciliation Retirement Change in health of family member Pregnancy Sex difficulties Gain of new family member Business readjustment Change in financial state Death of close friend Change to different line of work Change in number of arguments with spouse Mortgage or loan for a major purpose Wow. I have experienced 10 of them in the last 3-4 years. And i dont think i am generally too stressed out.

You missed WAR.

I didnt miss it..it an article I copied.

But of course your absolutely right.

What were they thinking to leave that out?

oceanz wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2007 at 4:01pm:

Hi everyone.. a topic started by me.. The topic was why dont men express feelings? That feelings inside men are very rarely resolved due to the societal pressures placed on men to be "macho"..have a steely reserve if you like..to be man like and never show any softness for fear of appearing weak in the eyers of other men and women too. I say its not healthy, that men need to learn that stress and anger are directly related to health problems and could be the reason women outlive men. Men mostly die of cancers, heart attacks, stroke, suicide etc. Why heck most men think going to the Doctor is weak. below is a partial post of mine and then followed by a guys opinion. so where does the pain go if its not expressed? It stays within and will result in failed and dysfunctiional relationships- suicide for some men and deep unhappiness for others. Every feeling has to be acknowledged and expressed or it will turn inward and begin to destroy us, little by little -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- guys answer http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2006/04/22/troops_wideweb__470x365,2.jpg Not true. Despite their fabled ability to express their feelings, women have not proven to be better able to resolve their issues than men. That's because whether you openly express your feelings or not, you still have to resolve them. It's those unresolved issues that stay trapped inside. Men do acknowledge their feelings. To themselves. We have different coping mechanisms from women. That's all. We internalize stuff. We deal with them. And we move on. Because we have to. Just because we no longer live in caves does not mean that we have changed all that much evolutionarily and genetically speaking. Basically, if a man broke down every time a woman rejected him, he lost a family member or the antelope got away during the hunt, the species would have died out long ago. It's something that's hard-wired and socially reinforced. The thing to remember is that humans were meant to be a two-gendered species. Each gender has its own roles and its own traits. Men are not dysfunctional women. We're just different. We do things differently. And maybe our way wouldn't work for you, but it works for us. Of course, that doesn't mean that men should not try to be better at expressing their feelings. Or that women should not try to be better at containing their feelings. It just means that it's not our natural tendencies. its clear men do experience and feel these quote: "Men die younger than women on average. The reason could be right here." Again, not true. The reason women have had a historically higher life expectancy is that men have had historically higher risk factors. But now that there are more women driving, working, drinking, smoking, in military service, etc., the life expectancy gap is narrowing. Women are more likely to report depression. Women are more likely to commit suicide. So what does that say about openly expressing your feelings all the time? Again, probably nothing. But one could make the same argument...

i couldnt agree more with the guy answer here

People are all individual. I think men do have feelings and express them sometimes/often, particularly in personal relationships. My experiences lead me to say that what I would like is if they better understood others feelings and that feelings do not have to be logical.

cautious, yes, or just accept others feelings without having to "fix" or "explain" it.

Well Oceanz-Agnes.
When us men 'bottle up our emotions' - it doesn't turn into suicide or anything detrimental to Mens Health and all that lefty rubbish.

Men, in the old days of Yor. Would take those bottled emotions and go, in the name of anger management - brain another man with a morning star.
By doing this. The man consumes the Soul of his dead sacrifice and grows more powerful. In today's age - it's called 'Level Up!'.
The more Souls a man can feed on, the more content, relaxed, at peace and very happy a Man can be. No need to let the tears flow like a cry-baby.
This is why 'battles' were invented. So there is more opportunity for a man to 'grow' by consuming more Souls like a Bonus Stage.
Being a leader like Stalin, Pol Pot, Biden, Hitler, Amin, Caesar, etc - doesn't really cut it. Because to consume the Soul of another man, the Man who wishes to grow must look his sacrifice in the eyes and deal the death blow himself. Maybe comment on his sense of fashion before he decapitates his sacrifice.
Only this way, is a man truly empowered by inner peace and having his chakras aligned.

Men who kill women and eat their souls turn into Poofs!  :D