An article in today's courier mail by a Washington based journalist.



By Karin Zeitvogel in Washington
February 27, 2008 09:58am

A HUGE survey of the world's Muslims challenges Western notions that equate Islam with radicalism and violence.
The survey, by the Gallup polling agency over six years and three continents, seeks to dispel the belief held by some in the West that Islam itself is the driving force of radicalism.

It shows the overwhelming majority of Muslims condemned the attacks against the United States on September 11, 2001 and subsequent terrorist attacks.

"Samuel Harris said in the Washington Times (in 2004): 'It is time we admitted that we are not at war with terrorism. We are at war with Islam','' said Dalia Mogadeh, co-author of the book Who Speaks for Islam, which grew out of the study.

"The argument Mr Harris makes is that religion in the primary driver'' of radicalism and violence, she said.

"Religion is an important part of life for the overwhelming majority of Muslims, and if it were indeed the driver for radicalisation, this would be a serious issue.''

But the study, which Gallup said surveyed a sample equivalent to 90 per cent of the world's Muslims, showed that widespread religiosity "does not translate into widespread support for terrorism,'' said Mogadeh, director of the Gallup Centre for Muslim Studies.

About 93 per cent of the world's 1.3 billion Muslims were moderates and only 7 per cent were politically radical, according to the poll, based on more than 50,000 interviews.

In mostly Muslim countries, overwhelming majorities said religion was a very important part of their lives - 99 per cent in Indonesia, 98 per cent in Egypt and  95 per cent in Pakistan.

But only 7 per cent of the billion Muslims surveyed condoned the attacks on the United States in 2001, the poll showed.

Moderate Muslims interviewed for the poll condemned the 9/11 attacks on New York and Washington because innocent lives were lost and civilians killed.

"Some actually cited religious justifications for why they were against 9/11, going as far as to quote from the Koran - for example, the verse that says taking one innocent life is like killing all humanity,'' Ms Mogadeh said.

Radical Muslims gave political, not religious, reasons for condoning the attacks.

The survey showed radicals to be neither more religious than their moderate counterparts, nor products of abject poverty or refugee camps.

"The radicals are better educated, have better jobs, and are more hopeful with regard to the future than mainstream Muslims,'' said John Esposito, who co-authored Who Speaks for Islam.

"Ironically, they believe in democracy even more than many of the mainstream moderates do, but they're more cynical about whether they'll ever get it,'' he said.

Thanks AM. I've always insisted that the causes and motivations were mostly political rather than religious. It's interesting about the radicals supporting democracy, being more hopeful and more wealthy.

Nice pc theoretical stuff.

What if the koran had never existed, would the same "issues" exist?


moderates are insignificant and do not follow the koran.
What other belief has moderates, extremists, beheadings, 72 virgins and murder those that leave ?

Sprintcyclist wrote on Feb 27^th, 2008 at 11:52pm:

Nice pc theoretical stuff. What if the koran had never existed, would the same "issues" exist? moderates are insignificant and do not follow the koran. What other belief has moderates, extremists, beheadings, 72 virgins and murder those that leave ?

Nothing theoretical about it, sprint. It's a survey spanning 3 countinents and sample of 50,000 participants (a much bigger sample than any political poll taken in Aust or USA). Quite real in fact, as opposed to theory.

As for moderates being insigniifcant.... why are they insignificant? They represent 93% (according to the survey) of the Muslims population. Hardly insignificant.

And on what basis do you claim that moderate Muslims don't follow the Quaran?

That like saying moderate Christians are insignificant and don't follow the bible.

I don't understand your point.

:-?

Sprintcyclist wrote on Feb 27^th, 2008 at 11:52pm:

Nice pc theoretical stuff. What if the koran had never existed, would the same "issues" exist?

The Quaran never existing?
Who's being theoretical now?

The same issues did and do exist. The Crusades, apartheid and the Holocaust derived out of Christian ideology.

The three Abrahamic tribes are historically and currently equally the most violent of all religions. The one irrefutable fact is that all 3 worships the same god.

;)

Hi acidmonkey,

How have you been and how did you settle on your name ?

The moderates are insignificant cause they (purport) to not want total world power.
One globe totally under sharia law, everyone being muslims.
At least the extremists are honest.
There are many quotes in the koran supporting this idea. Is what hilali said, he studied it for decades.

the crusades took back the land the muslims had taken.
Sorry, cant imagine any quotes in the Bible to support aparthaid or the holocaust .
Both of those are against Jesus teachings.

The OT is quite violent, but it does not condone violence.
The NT is peaceful and does not condone violence.
The koran is bloodthirsty and demands violence.

Take care

Hi Sprint,

I've been very busy. I've just came back from a German/Swiss trip ( 2 months) and will have to leave again next month for the Netherlands. No rest for the wicked.

My name? I'm not a believer of astrology... but my birth month is Aries (Western) and my birth year is Monkey (Asian). Aries are supposed to be fiery. I tried merging the two together without any phonetical success - Fire Monkey doesn't quite have that same ring to it.

My lecturer once said that my essays borders on "utopian anarchy, a gentleman's anarchist". He said that I am the corrosive vocal element of western society - like acid. I don't quite know what he meant by that. I asked him but all he said was you'll work it out one day.

Anyway....

Have you actually read the Quran? Does anyone really know what the Quran says - besides 72 virgins, the twisted interpretation of jihad and shaheed?

My own approx figures here..... 45% of the Quran is the same as the OT, 15% mentions the life of Mary and Jesus the prophet and 40% chronicles Muhammed.

The OT is not violent? You're kidding right? I can't give you exact bible verses (my father is the bible expert) but the OT says that a man can sell your daughter if he so wishes, working on the Sabbath is punishable by death, touching pig skin makes one unclean and must be banished from the village, same sex fornicators must be put to death, you cannot plant two different crops side by side nor wear garments made of two different thread for fear of receiving the wrath of God - Leviticus, I think. There's plenty of violence in there, but really it's up to individual interpretation and one cn interprete that to an extreme.

Just as radical and fundamentalist Muslim have twisted their interpretation of the same texts.

Jihad means struggle. The following examples can be considered a jihad - studying day and night (or cramming) for an exam, giving birth, going on a mission or pilgramage, battling depression, the handicap are considered to be on a lifelong jihad.

Shaheed means martyr. Someone who has failed in their jihad. A mother who has died during childbirth can be considered shaheed.

As for 72 virgin... you have to consider that the Quran is more than 2000 years old and the language is literally remained unchanged. The verses are poetic and flouride. It reads more like a song and a text. It has not been edited or translated as the bible has and therefore the meanings are literal to the era that it was written. Translated Qurans must contain the original Arabic script besides the translated text. The countless versions of the Christian bible all have different interpretations - King James Version is the "authorised version" since 1611, the Good News Bible in 1974, the New King James version in 1982, the 21st Century King James version in 1994, and many others all very subtle and different meaning in the verses. Possibly, if the Quran had been edited and reedited, translated and retranslated I'm sure the contemporary Quran would probably drop the 72 virgins line and replace it with "eternal bliss". Idk.

As you say, violence is against Jesus' teachings. True! However, the extremists' version of jihad is also against Muhammed's teachings. "To take a life unjustly is to kill humanity itself." Anyone who has bothered to read the Quran would have known that. However, despite the protestations of the moderate Muslims, know one hears thats. All they hear is Jihad, shaheed or martyr.

Hitler was heavily influenced by a document called "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion". This document is supposedly are the minutes of a secret meeting held by a society of Jewish elders who has plans for world domination through the finance, entertainment and industrial sector. It has since been debunked as a fake document.

Like you, I don't know how but I've read and have seen docos about the apartheid system and how they twisted the bible to justify their regime. Somehow God and Jesus are white and black is unclean. Therefore, black people are second class. All religious Rennaisance painting showed Jesus as being white, we have vonacularism such the white lie (which is a good lie), Black Friday (which is black), white = pure, black = evil etc. I need to research this part a little more.

Anyway, I've prattled on again. I must like the look of my typing. LOL.

;D

Oh, I forgot....

Another misunderstood word is "fatwa". It is not a "death sentence" although everytime the media reports anything resembling a fatwa inearly always nvolves death. A fatwa is a religious directive or instruction.

In Christian terms - Jesus saying "Go forth and be fishers of men" is a fatwa. A priest telling a confessor to recite 10 "Hail Marys" as penance is a fatwa.

Acidmonky - what a great life you lead. well done.

Anyway - No, I have only read about 1/2 hour of the koran. From that, there was very little of the OT in it.  Only directions on what to do. Lots of threats etc etc.

yes, the OT is quite violent, but does not condone it.
Perhaps the moderates can teach fata, hilali and suadi adabia the peaceful ways of the koran.
They have all studied it too, and have come to the opposite conclusion.
Wonder who is "right"

"Mr Ahmadinejad also told the families of the "martyrs" of the war that their loss was not in vain as the message of the Islamic revolution of 1979 that ousted the pro-US shah was spreading all over the world.

"Today the message of your revolution is being heard in South America, East Asia, in the heart of Europe and even in the United States itself," he said. "
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23295611-954,00.html
he appears to have a different interperetion of jihad to you also.

Saudi arabis used to give A$50,000 to the families of suicide bombers, they have suported terrorism for decades. As do yemen


mohammad was a mass murderer, the koran says to make islam the dominant religion over all other religions, make war though you may dislike it, attack unbelievers unceasingly.
I can see where the extremists get their ideas from.


One of the first people baptised by Jesus was an ethiopean.  
Hitler and co had it wrong it would seem .

only muslms give fatwas to murder anyone. Or murder those that want to leave, or celebrate the twin towers being bombed.


take care Acid.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Feb 29^th, 2008 at 11:32am:

yes, the OT is quite violent, but does not condone it. Perhaps the moderates can teach fata, hilali and suadi adabia the peaceful ways of the koran. They have all studied it too, and have come to the opposite conclusion. Wonder who is "right"

I would hazard a guess and say that the interpretation of 93% of moderate Muslims are right. That the other extreme 7% such as Hilali and the Saudi brand of Islam (Wahabbi) is wrong. It's interesting to observe (my own) that the minority breakaway groups like Wahabbi and the Shi'a seems to be the major players in fundamentalist Islam. The majority Sunni tribe seems more moderate.


My life? Not that exciting really. I must have unintentionally misrepresented myself. LOL. It's been interesting, yes. And I've experienced a few things (like terrorism) first hand but essentially its quite normal and mostly boring.

Cheers!

Hi again acidmonkey,
I'ld prefer the intention the 93% have.  Unfortnately they seem to be mute about the 7%.
Perhaps the 7 % have read this:
"Those with Muhammad are ruthless toward disbelievers and merciful toward themselves" 48:29


Or this :

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 54:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "By Him in Whose Hands my life is! Were it not for some men amongst the believers who dislike to be left behind me and whom I cannot provide with means of conveyance, I would certainly never remain behind any Sariya' (army-unit) setting out in Allah's Cause. By Him in Whose Hands my life is! I would love to be martyred in Al1ah's Cause and then get resurrected and then get martyred, and then get resurrected again and then get martyred and then get resurrected again and then get martyred."


Or has no sense of morals, just an extremist desire, such as this:

Ishaq:369 "Thereupon Mas'ud leapt upon Sunayna, one of the Jewish merchants with whom his family had social and commercial relations and killed him. The Muslim's brother complained, saying, ‘Why did you kill him? You have much fat in you belly from his charity.' Mas'ud answered, ‘By Allah, had Muhammad ordered me to murder you, my brother, I would have cut off your head.' Wherein the brother said, ‘Any religion that can bring you to this is indeed wonderful!' And he accepted Islam."

Whatever, seems the 93% are not folowing hte koran well to me

Ant Tawaf, circling the Kaaba

https://mobile.twitter.com/weirdterrifying/status/1611743356115386368

freediver wrote on Feb 27^th, 2008 at 4:06pm:

Thanks AM. I've always insisted that the causes and motivations were mostly political rather than religious. It's interesting about the radicals supporting democracy, being more hopeful and more wealthy.

What? Fd said that?  :o :o  has someone else been hijacking his account for the last ten years

John Smith wrote on Jan 8^th, 2023 at 8:26am:

freediver wrote on Feb 27th, 2008 at 4:06pm: Thanks AM. I've always insisted that the causes and motivations were mostly political rather than religious. It's interesting about the radicals supporting democracy, being more hopeful and more wealthy. What? Fd said that?  :o :o  has someone else been hijacking his account for the last ten years

Has someone hijacked his board for the past 14 years? Look how reasonable the debate was.

What do you think happened, FD?

Karnal wrote on Jan 8^th, 2023 at 10:48am:

John Smith wrote on Jan 8th, 2023 at 8:26am: freediver wrote on Feb 27th, 2008 at 4:06pm: Thanks AM. I've always insisted that the causes and motivations were mostly political rather than religious. It's interesting about the radicals supporting democracy, being more hopeful and more wealthy. What? Fd said that?  :o :o  has someone else been hijacking his account for the last ten years Has someone hijacked his board for the past 14 years? Look how reasonable the debate was. What do you think happened, FD?

Mugged by reality.

Frank wrote on Jan 8^th, 2023 at 11:42am:

Karnal wrote on Jan 8th, 2023 at 10:48am: John Smith wrote on Jan 8th, 2023 at 8:26am: freediver wrote on Feb 27th, 2008 at 4:06pm: Thanks AM. I've always insisted that the causes and motivations were mostly political rather than religious. It's interesting about the radicals supporting democracy, being more hopeful and more wealthy. What? Fd said that?  :o :o  has someone else been hijacking his account for the last ten years Has someone hijacked his board for the past 14 years? Look how reasonable the debate was. What do you think happened, FD? Mugged by reality.

Reality, eh?

Oh, I see. You mean a despicable Slovenian Tjurd, a tut-tutting Milk Monitor, a Calabrian Dago and a devious Pakistani Bastard, no?

You mean unreality. Good show.

What do you think, FD? You haven't said.

Karnal wrote on Jan 8^th, 2023 at 5:48pm:

Frank wrote on Jan 8th, 2023 at 11:42am: Karnal wrote on Jan 8th, 2023 at 10:48am: John Smith wrote on Jan 8th, 2023 at 8:26am: freediver wrote on Feb 27th, 2008 at 4:06pm: Thanks AM. I've always insisted that the causes and motivations were mostly political rather than religious. It's interesting about the radicals supporting democracy, being more hopeful and more wealthy. What? Fd said that?  :o :o  has someone else been hijacking his account for the last ten years Has someone hijacked his board for the past 14 years? Look how reasonable the debate was. What do you think happened, FD? Mugged by reality. Reality, eh? Oh, I see. You mean a despicable Slovenian Tjurd, a tut-tutting Milk Monitor, a Calabrian Dago and a devious Pakistani Bastard, no? You mean unreality. Good show. What do you think, FD? You haven't said.

It's tujd (non-rhotic Noo Yawk), not Ravalpindi garbled tjurd.

Oh dear... a classic necropost LOL.

Frank wrote on Jan 8^th, 2023 at 7:58pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 8th, 2023 at 5:48pm: Frank wrote on Jan 8th, 2023 at 11:42am: Karnal wrote on Jan 8th, 2023 at 10:48am: John Smith wrote on Jan 8th, 2023 at 8:26am: freediver wrote on Feb 27th, 2008 at 4:06pm: Thanks AM. I've always insisted that the causes and motivations were mostly political rather than religious. It's interesting about the radicals supporting democracy, being more hopeful and more wealthy. What? Fd said that?  :o :o  has someone else been hijacking his account for the last ten years Has someone hijacked his board for the past 14 years? Look how reasonable the debate was. What do you think happened, FD? Mugged by reality. Reality, eh? Oh, I see. You mean a despicable Slovenian Tjurd, a tut-tutting Milk Monitor, a Calabrian Dago and a devious Pakistani Bastard, no? You mean unreality. Good show. What do you think, FD? You haven't said. It's tujd (non-rhotic Noo Yawk), not Ravalpindi garbled tjurd.

Hurry up, FD. He's correcting my unreality spelling.

How did it come to this? Thoughts?

AusGeoff wrote on Jan 8^th, 2023 at 10:13pm:

Oh dear... a classic necropost LOL.

Resurrection.