This is so typical of the Liebor Party.  The woman who blew the whistle on a paedophile was sacked, apparently for blowing the whistle.




Quote:

Orkopoulos alarm-raiser sacked THE woman who helped raise the alarm about disgraced former NSW Aboriginal affairs minister Milton Orkopoulos has been sacked by the state parliament from her electorate office job. Orkopoulos was found guilty of 28 paedophilia and drug charges yesterday. However Gillian Sneddon, Orkopoulos's former electorate officer in the Hunter seat of Swansea, who helped collect evidence from his office for police, had her employment terminated last month -  the day she began to give evidence at the Orkopoulos trial, The Sydney Morning Herald reports. She had been on stress leave and is fighting a workers' compensation claim against parliament. Premier Morris Iemma has said her situation is a matter for parliament. She told the Herald yesterday if she had kept my mouth shut, it would have been covered up. The "treatment of me the whole way down the line, from the parliament, from my colleagues, from Labor politicians, (has) been a disgrace''. Ms Sneddon has been on workers' compensation since being locked out of the office in late 2006 while assisting police retrieve evidence in the case, the Herald reported. Who votes for these people!!!!!!

Cover ups are so typical for Liebor crooks.   It has happened in pretty well every other state as well as NSW before.

And of course the Dr Death scandal led to huge torment for the whistle blower Toni Hoffman.  She was vilified, while the Liebor Health Minister (now before the courts himself) Nuttall fudged, blustered and pretended nothing was wrong.

They make me want to vote Liberal.  Oh that's right.  I do.

And in the NSW Liebor Party they have thrown the victims away again - just like in Queensland with Dr Death.  Yes Aussie, that is the Dr Death you want to defend from we barbaric Australians.

How about the 'butcher'?


Quote:

No apology for employing 'Butcher of Bega' THE New South Wales government will not apologise for the health service's employment of rogue doctor Graeme Reeves, despite reports authorities knew of his gross negligence almost 10 years before he was struck off. Mr Reeves is accused of a string of botched surgeries, inappropriate internal and breast examinations, and verbal abuse. He was first banned from obstetric work in 1997 and was struck off in 2004, when he was found to have been working in defiance of the ban. He is now at the centre of a police investigation known as Strike Force Tarella, while the case has also been referred to the special commission of inquiry into NSW's health system, headed by Peter Garling SC. In the latest claim, a Sydney mother lost her twin babies and almost bled to death after Mr Reeves tried to pull her placenta from her uterus using the wrong type of forceps and without any medication, resulting in severe lacerations to her vagina and cervix and uncontrollable haemorrhaging, Fairfax reported. "There's no doubt that the health department knew what was happening with Dr Reeves 10 years ago,'' NSW Opposition Leader Barry O'Farrell told reporters today. "I think that there's also no doubt that the state Labor government failed to deliver on its promises to ensure that the Health Care Complaints Commission or other bodies took appropriate action to protect the public from doctors like Dr Reeves. "The Dr Reeves situation in NSW will, like the Dr Death situation in Queensland, uncover inaction within the state government when it comes to ensuring that those who are treating people across this state are appropriate people.'' Health Minister Reba Meagher says the NSW health system will take responsibility for any failings of public hospitals relating to Dr Reeves' practice, and that measures are now in place to prevent the employment of such doctors in the public system. "I've made it very clear in parliament that I will not apologise for the employment processes relating to Reeves by the Southern Area Health Service in 2002,'' Ms Meagher told reporters in Sydney today. No apology?  I wonder if Little Kevvy will say he's sorry

So while Little Cardboard Kevvy is sobbing out sorry for children who were most likely saved from difficult environments, his cronies in NSW don't give a phuq about women who suffered terribly at the hands of the 'butcher'.

Does anyone else see a contradiction here?  Does anyone else see a Party which pretends to care until the time comes to show it?

In yet another example, allegations of systemic corruption from within the union itself - yet Kevvy, who starts a new review, inquiry or talkfest every other wednesday, sees no reason to investigate bullying and corruption claims.  Why?  Well because it involves Liebor mates of course.




Quote:

TWU inquiry call The Rudd Government has ruled out holding an inquiry into claims of corruption and extortion involving the Labor Party and the Transport Workers Union. The Opposition's call for the inquiry follows allegations the TWU extorted money from transport companies and funnelled it into a slush fund used to help re-elect New South Wales Labor MPs. A former TWU official has made claims of company bosses paying to make difficult industrial issues disappear. The claims go on to allege that money made from the dubious dealings was put into the campaign funds of several Labor MPs. Opposition Leader Brendan Nelson says the claims are serious enough to warrant a full investigation. 'If it smells like extortion and corruption, it probably is,' Dr Nelson said. 'Mr Rudd's very fond of inquiries and I think he now needs one. This needs a full judicial inquiry to get to the bottom of whether the Transport Workers Union has been gouging and ripping money not only off workers, but also honest employers across Australia,' he added. Deputy Prime Minister Julia Gillard skirted the issue of a judicial inquiry and said that any allegations needed to be referred to the appropriate authority. Ms Gillard responded on the Nine Network's Sunday program: 'Anybody who has an allegation about these matters that they want investigated should report it. It seemed to me from the story that there are two types of allegations. One is about personal intimidation. Those matters, of course, should be reported to the police. Another is about breach of electoral disclosure laws. That matter should be reported to the Australian Electoral Commission for investigation.' Prime Minister Kevin Rudd agrees and says if anyone has information about illegality on the part of any union or non-union organisation they should report it. They should report it - to someone else hey Kevvy?  Too busy axing benefits to Australians in need?

The workers are getting ripped off, so the allegation goes, but Kevvy says that someone should report it.  Just not to him though - he doesn't give a phuq.

personally i'm looking forward to the investigations and full parlimentary inquiries into the past rorts committed by past ministers of the howards neocons. wonder if our mate woolyone will get a look in :)  

Dooley wrote on Mar 17^th, 2008 at 7:48pm:

personally i'm looking forward to the investigations and full parlimentary inquiries into the past rorts committed by past ministers of the howards neocons. wonder if our mate woolyone will get a look in :)

I do hope you are already quite old.  It would be a tragic waste of an entire lifetime throbbing with anticipation for an event which will never come to a group which does not exist.

i'll give it about a year before they tend to the matter. that'll give it just about the right timing for a juicy senate enquiry to give a finding a ministerial lies and political tampering in the "children overboard" affair. right after the enquiry into porkbarrelling over the last couple of terms of office for jh and his neocronies and contemptibles. soon followed by a senate oversight into the mishandling of the lastest booboos in military purchasing (perhaps even a hint of paybacks) - the list goes on and on and on............... enuff for three or four terms. wonder how long before nelson finds himself capt of the bounty.  hahaha

Dooley wrote on Mar 17^th, 2008 at 9:15pm:

i'll give it about a year before they tend to the matter. that'll give it just about the right timing for a juicy senate enquiry to give a finding a ministerial lies and political tampering in the "children overboard" affair. right after the enquiry into porkbarrelling over the last couple of terms of office for jh and his neocronies and contemptibles. soon followed by a senate oversight into the mishandling of the lastest booboos in military purchasing (perhaps even a hint of paybacks) - the list goes on and on and on............... enuff for three or four terms. wonder how long before nelson finds himself capt of the bounty.  hahaha

If I'm not mistaken there have already been two senate inquiries into the "children overboard" affair.  Why do you expect a third to find any different outcome?  Blind faith?  Not a good quality on a political forum.  Perhaps a theological forum would accept your desperate hope?

However if you're looking for rorts the Liebor Party is full of them - why even today Little Kevvy was sprung accepting travel and grog from a Chinese company for . . . .  well . . . .  no reason at all?  Methinks a bribe smells this way.




Quote:

Chinese company denies Rudd trip claims A Chinese company that paid for Kevin Rudd to visit war-torn Sudan 18 months ago has denied it was doing business in the African country at the time. Mr Rudd was opposition foreign affairs spokesman when Beijing AustChina Technology, a Chinese importer of Australian telecommunications products, paid for him to visit the African nation of Sudan in June and July 2006. AustChina also sponsored trips to Hong Kong and China by Treasurer Wayne Swan, Agriculture Minister Tony Burke and Labor backbencher Bernie Ripoll before last year's election. But the company denied reports that its executives had travelled with the future prime minister in 2006, describing the claim as "completely false". AustChina deputy general manager Maggie Zhen was quoted in a communications industry newsletter as saying that the company was doing business in Sudan in 2006 and Mr Rudd went with them. But AustChina has issued a statement saying that Ms Zhen had been misquoted in the English-language newsletter Communications Day. "AustChina has never conducted any business in Sudan and has no plans to conduct any business there in the future," the statement said. "AustChina has never accompanied Mr Rudd to Sudan, the United States of America or the United Kingdom." Quizzed about Ms Zhen's comments in parliament, Mr Rudd said there was nothing wrong with opposition MPs, with limited access to parliamentary travel budgets, accepting hospitality from private companies. AustChina also gave him a bottle of 1986 Penfolds Grange Hermitage, valued at $690, last year. Kevvy gets into the graft and corruption

Fancy accepting gifts from a foreign dignatory....

Howard keeps golf clubs from Bush

http://news.smh.com.au/howard-keeps-golf-clubs-from-bush/20080317-200k.html

John Howard may have been able to resist a silver cigar box from the Greek prime minister, pearl cufflinks from the Filipino president and a silk carpet from the Iraqi president.

But there was no way he was going to knock back a golf bag, custom putter and club covers from his good buddy US President George W Bush.

freediver wrote on Mar 17^th, 2008 at 9:49pm:

Fancy accepting gifts from a foreign dignatory.... Howard keeps golf clubs from Bush http://news.smh.com.au/howard-keeps-golf-clubs-from-bush/20080317-200k.html John Howard may have been able to resist a silver cigar box from the Greek prime minister, pearl cufflinks from the Filipino president and a silk carpet from the Iraqi president. But there was no way he was going to knock back a golf bag, custom putter and club covers from his good buddy US President George W Bush.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha.  You are smelling desperate.  A set of golf clubs from a chum?   Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

But strangely you forgot to post a significant part of the story.  I wonder why . . . .

From the same link . . .


Quote:

"During the recent APEC meeting I received a golf bag, custom putter and golf covers from the president of the United States of America," Mr Howard wrote to House of Representatives Clerk Ian Harris in a declaration dated September 30 last year. "As the gift is valued over the allowable limit, I have forwarded a cheque to the Collector of Public Monies for payment of the difference in value to the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet." He also decided to pay for eight crystal wine glasses given to him by Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper, who has publicly hailed Mr Howard as a mentor for a new generation of conservative leaders around the world. But he surrendered the two bottles of dessert wine that came with them for use during an official function at The Lodge. He also handed over the carpet, the cigar box and the cufflinks, as well as a south sea brooch in a stingray skin box, a hand-painted ceramic pot, some historic scrolls and a laptop computer. Kevin Rudd, who ousted Mr Howard as prime minister two months after the APEC summit, also received a gift from Mr Bush - a leather stationery box and platinum pen valued at $US365 ($A390). Mr Rudd kept the gifts.

You are smelling desperate.

Extremely- maybe FD should lick Dooley's sack a little more lovingly than what he has been doing so far to keep him around and bolster some of the more lefty arguments being surreptitiously pushed by the forum owner??

It would seem that he needs all the help he can get
:D

So the gifts Mr Rudd accepted were below the 'allowable limit' mentioned there?

freediver wrote on Mar 17^th, 2008 at 10:26pm:

So the gifts Mr Rudd accepted were below the 'allowable limit' mentioned there?

Yes.  In the same way that Johnny's were (Johnny, being an honest righty, forwarded payment for the balance to bring the gift below the 'allowable limit').  

But you posted only Johnny's and apparently forgot to post the bit about Little Kevvy keeping his gifts.  It seems that when you only tell part of the story you smell quite desperate and I hate to have to say it freediver - your post reeks.

It's funny to watch though.

You might be onto something here Deepfort. Politicians accepting gifts, forwarding the appropriate paperwork, paying any necessary amounts into public coffers. Who would have thought eh?

---

from crikey:

The Opposition finally got cracking on the Government’s links with Chinese communications company Beijing AustChina in Question Time yesterday, although its attack rather lacked bite.

First Communications spokesman Bruce Billson, then Shadow Foreign Minister Andrew Robb – who has substance but frankly lacks a bit of presence at the Dispatch Box – asked Kevin Rudd about his trip to Darfur in 2006, paid for by Beijing AustChina as part of a trip to the US, the UK and China.

It has since been revealed that, in addition to funding several of his overseas trips, AustChina presented Rudd with a bottle of Grange. This isn’t exactly unusual – if you want to know why the stuff is so expensive, look no further than the hordes of lobbyists and companies that shower bottles of the stuff on politicians.

Beijing AustChina has also hired PR flacks Parker & Partners to handle the issue.

Rudd’s answers yesterday – later corrected – were interesting for two reasons. He defended his use of sponsored overseas travel as a shadow Minister on the basis that no-one else was going to pay for his visits overseas. Beijing AustChina has since confirmed this, saying that it likes to provide travel support for Opposition MPs who may wish to develop an interest in China.

However, even if we accept that Opposition MPs should have their portfolio responsibilities partly funded by commercial interests, it leaves the other members of the AustChina Five in a tricky position. Wayne Swan might at a stretch be able to argue that, as shadow Treasurer, visiting the key source of Australia’s resources boom twice at the expense of AustChina was appropriate. Tony Burke insists that his AustChina-sponsored five trips to China were purely in his capacity as Labor’s Immigration spokesman. One trip to visit an important source of migrants for Australia, perhaps – but five? And as for Bernie Ripoll and Kim Wilkie – both were backbenchers.

Rudd also made a point of declaring that in Darfur he was "hosted" by World Vision. "Hosted" is a rather nebulous term and shouldn’t be confused – as perhaps Rudd would like it to be – with "paid for". World Vision has confirmed to Crikey that its involvement with Rudd’s trip to Darfur was limited to Rudd speaking to Tim Costello before and after the trip, and meeting World Vision program officers while there.

This rather smacks of Rudd using Tim Costello as a moral shield. Indeed, the entire trip to Sudan, however well-intentioned, has the look of being tacked on to Rudd’s Women’s Weekly World Discovery Tour on the AustChina account as a justification for enjoying their largesse.

And let’s stop tiptoeing around an issue at the heart of all this. Rudd’s oft-proclaimed Sinophilia means he must have strong connections with a brutal dictatorship that, as events in Tibet are currently demonstrating, savagely suppresses dissent and imprisons and executes its opponents. China’s role in Darfur has been heavily criticised. And there are also rumours that AustChina has links with the Sudanese military -- categorically denied by an AustChina spokesman this morning. AustChina has denied having any commercial role in Sudan. However, Q-Mac International, a West Australian based firm and an affiliate of AustChina, sold high-frequenecy radios to the Sudanese army in 2003, according to reports from Amnesty International.

This has a way to go yet.

freediver wrote on Mar 18^th, 2008 at 8:27am:

<snip> And let’s stop tiptoeing around an issue at the heart of all this. Rudd’s oft-proclaimed Sinophilia means he must have strong connections with a brutal dictatorship that, as events in Tibet are currently demonstrating, savagely suppresses dissent and imprisons and executes its opponents.

Little Kevvy Liar learned everything he knows there.

And speaking of liars . . . . .




Quote:

Plastic bag fee on the agenda, red-faced minister says FEDERAL Environment Minister Peter Garrett has been forced to admit the Government is considering a check-out charge on plastic shopping bags. Last week Mr Garrett labelled as "incorrect" a report in The Sunday Mail that the charge was being considered. However after being presented with transcripts of his own departmental officials outlining the plan, an embarrassed Mr Garrett yesterday conceded the supermarket slug on shoppers was on the table as part of the Government's election pledge to eradicate plastic shopping bags. The transcripts, from Senate estimates hearings, reveal his department has undertaken detailed costings of the plan. Mr Garrett sought to shut down the report last week by issuing a statement declaring the Government would not be introducing any "levy". However today The Sunday Mail can reveal the Government has been considering both a levy and a checkout charge of 25¢ a bag to fulfil its election pledge to phase out single-use plastic shopping bags, using so-called "economic instruments". If it walks like a Rudd and it quacks like a Rudd - it's a Rudd

They learn fast when they join the Liebor Party.

you know the old saying - you can only trust those you pay... :)

Wow, $100000 and they complain about Rudd accepting a bottle of wine.

http://news.smh.com.au/chinese-firm-donated-to-nats-rudd-says/20080318-206x.html

A Chinese company which paid for overseas trips for Labor MPs also donated $100,000 to the Nationals, Prime Minister Kevin Rudd said on Tuesday.

Mr Rudd, Treasurer Wayne Swan, Agriculture Minister Tony Burke and Labor backbencher Bernie Ripoll all went on trips sponsored by Beijing AustChina Technology, an importer of Australian telecommunications equipment, while in opposition.

The current opposition has queried the relationship between the MPs and the company.

freediver wrote on Mar 18^th, 2008 at 8:11pm:

Wow, $100000 and they complain about Rudd accepting a bottle of wine. http://news.smh.com.au/chinese-firm-donated-to-nats-rudd-says/20080318-206x.html A Chinese company which paid for overseas trips for Labor MPs also donated $100,000 to the Nationals, Prime Minister Kevin Rudd said on Tuesday. Mr Rudd, Treasurer Wayne Swan, Agriculture Minister Tony Burke and Labor backbencher Bernie Ripoll all went on trips sponsored by Beijing AustChina Technology, an importer of Australian telecommunications equipment, while in opposition. The current opposition has queried the relationship between the MPs and the company.

I don't think it's the wine that's the issue.  If you comprehended all the news rather than the bits you only seem able to see you would find it is the donation to the ALP of more than double that figure, apparently for services yet to be provided . . . . . .


Quote:

A CHINESE telecoms firm has showered the Labor Party's top guns with gifts and cash, including a $690 bottle of Penfold's Grange Hermitage for Kevin Rudd. The Prime Minister yesterday came under pressure in Parliament to explain a 2006 trip to Sudan, the US, China and England, paid for by Beijing AustChina Technology. The Chinese importer has donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to Labor, and paid for overseas travel by ministers. Other beneficiaries include Treasurer Wayne Swan, Agriculture Minister Tony Burke and Queensland MP Bernie Ripoll. All visited China in July 2007, their air fares and accommodation paid by the telecoms importer. Mr Rudd's register of interests, updated yesterday, shows AustChina donated a bottle of the prized wine, "valued at approximately $690". . . . . . Beijing AustChina Technology has donated more than $200,000 to the ALP. Electoral returns reveal it donated $158,000 to the NSW ALP last year alone. Vice-president Maggie Zeng has admitted the "business environment and conditions for our company" in Australia were much better after Labor's election win.

i fail to see any thing other than utter rubbish from you on this point dt's

Dooley wrote on Mar 18^th, 2008 at 10:05pm:

i fail to see any thing other than utter rubbish from you on this point dt's

I can understand that Dooley.  

After all you failed to see the definition of 'utter' on the website you linked to.  

And you failed to see the truth about the UN's position on the legality or otherwise of the 'invasion' of Iraq on the website you linked to.

I'm not at all surprised to see that once again you are selectively blind.

Have you considered opening both eyes to gain a balanced perspective Dooley?

You are a very poor loser aren't you Dooley?

Little Cardboard Kevvy Liar maintains his treatment of the mushrooms by being vewy, vewy secretive about his contra deals . . . . . .




Quote:

Rudd's Chinese 'sponsor' attracts scrutiny PRIME Minister Kevin Rudd is facing fresh scrutiny over his links with a mysterious Chinese entrepreneur, Ian Tang, who has treated Mr Rudd and some of his ministers to thousands of dollars worth of free overseas trips. Despite being virtually unknown here, Mr Tang's company, Beijing AustChina Technology, has emerged as Australia's fourth biggest corporate political donor, with hundreds of thousands of dollars showered on both sides of politics. The company may also be among the most generous provider of travel junkets to senior politicians, with Mr Rudd and several of his ministers having gone overseas on Mr Tang's tab while they were in opposition. Now The Age has learned that Mr Rudd, Treasurer Wayne Swan and other high-profile recipients of Mr Tang's hospitality have held meetings with the businessman since November, when Labor won power. Federal Agriculture Minister Tony Burke (the most frequent of Mr Tang's flyers, with five sponsored trips while in opposition) met the businessman last month, as did Mr Swan. And a spokesman for Mr Rudd confirmed yesterday that he met Mr Tang in November, the month he won office. The Age has also learned that Mr Tang spent $55,000 on a gala dinner at the Nationals' conference last August, when he dined with party leaders and corporate heavyweights. The sponsorship of the function, which featured a crooner named "Alfio", was in addition to a $99,980 donation the company made to the Nationals before the federal election. The revelations come after Mr Rudd and Mr Burke faced questions in Parliament yesterday over their links with Mr Tang and his company. Mr Rudd was asked to table correspondence relating to a trip in 2006, when he went to the US, Britain, Darfur, Sudan and China at the expense of Mr Tang's company. He declined to table the correspondence. Mr Burke was questioned about five trips that he took at the company's expense, and gave Parliament details of another trip to Manila that related to his then shadow portfolio of immigration. He said he had disclosed all of the trips in accordance with parliamentary rules. But he failed to answer a question about whether he had maintained contact with the company since becoming a cabinet minister. Last night, Mr Burke told The Age: "Ian Tang was in Australia last month. He caught up with politicians from both sides of politics, including me." Mr Swan took trips to Beijing and Hong Kong in 2006 and to mainland China in July 2007. Beijing AustChina Technology has donated more than $150,000 to the NSW branch of the ALP and, according to the Australian Electoral Commission, was the fourth largest corporate political donor in 2006-07. The company says it provides "telecommunication and information technology solutions to the Chinese market place" and [b]boasts on its website of having "close working relationships with key decision-makers and figureheads in government agencies in both Australia and China"[/b]. No wonder Kevvy doesn't want his people to get a pay rise - they already have two jobs . . . . .

deepthought wrote on Mar 18^th, 2008 at 8:23pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 18th, 2008 at 8:11pm: Wow, $100000 and they complain about Rudd accepting a bottle of wine. http://news.smh.com.au/chinese-firm-donated-to-nats-rudd-says/20080318-206x.html A Chinese company which paid for overseas trips for Labor MPs also donated $100,000 to the Nationals, Prime Minister Kevin Rudd said on Tuesday. Mr Rudd, Treasurer Wayne Swan, Agriculture Minister Tony Burke and Labor backbencher Bernie Ripoll all went on trips sponsored by Beijing AustChina Technology, an importer of Australian telecommunications equipment, while in opposition. The current opposition has queried the relationship between the MPs and the company. I don't think it's the wine that's the issue.  If you comprehended all the news rather than the bits you only seem able to see you would find it is the donation to the ALP of more than double that figure, apparently for services yet to be provided . . . . . . Quote: A CHINESE telecoms firm has showered the Labor Party's top guns with gifts and cash, including a $690 bottle of Penfold's Grange Hermitage for Kevin Rudd. The Prime Minister yesterday came under pressure in Parliament to explain a 2006 trip to Sudan, the US, China and England, paid for by Beijing AustChina Technology. The Chinese importer has donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to Labor, and paid for overseas travel by ministers. Other beneficiaries include Treasurer Wayne Swan, Agriculture Minister Tony Burke and Queensland MP Bernie Ripoll. All visited China in July 2007, their air fares and accommodation paid by the telecoms importer. Mr Rudd's register of interests, updated yesterday, shows AustChina donated a bottle of the prized wine, "valued at approximately $690". . . . . . Beijing AustChina Technology has donated more than $200,000 to the ALP. Electoral returns reveal it donated $158,000 to the NSW ALP last year alone. Vice-president Maggie Zeng has admitted the "business environment and conditions for our company" in Australia were much better after Labor's election win.

So the Coalition is upset because Labor got more money out of them? Is that why they complained so bitterly?

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2008 at 9:10am:

So the Coalition is upset because Labor got more money out of them? Is that why they complained so bitterly?

Impressive swerving but the amount of the donation to the Nats was brought up by you and Little Kevvy.

It's the graft of paid holidays - for what?  They reckon that Liebor offers a better 'opportunity' for them.  How do they know unless the deal has already been struck . . . .

So it's the paid holidays that matter now, not the $100000 they gave to the coalition? Maybe the coalition were just upset that they didn't get a bottle of grange too.

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2008 at 10:54am:

So it's the paid holidays that matter now, not the $100000 they gave to the coalition? Maybe the coalition were just upset that they didn't get a bottle of grange too.

Discussing ethicality or morality with you (and leftards generally) is similar to discussing beautiful landscapes with a blind man.  No matter how much detail you provide they will never see it.

I suppose we rightys should simply accept that leftards take bribery and corruption in their stride - it's a way of life for them.

However I will never lay down for the Liebor Party to walk on me as you seem eager to do.

Deepthought was it unethical for the coalition to accept that $100000?

deepthought wrote on Mar 19^th, 2008 at 12:07pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 19th, 2008 at 10:54am: So it's the paid holidays that matter now, not the $100000 they gave to the coalition? Maybe the coalition were just upset that they didn't get a bottle of grange too. Discussing ethicality or morality with you (and leftards generally) is similar to discussing beautiful landscapes with a blind man.  No matter how much detail you provide they will never see it. I suppose we rightys should simply accept that leftards take bribery and corruption in their stride - it's a way of life for them. However I will never lay down for the Liebor Party to walk on me as you seem eager to do.

righturds could never understand the vagaries of life outside the myopoic bubble they assume contains all their is to know as the leftys have an natural inclination to do. inclusion and social cohesion are the mainstay of the socialist life, while righturds aim to cause fraction amongst the populace to make it easier to rule....

IQSRLOW ?????

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2008 at 12:54pm:

Deepthought was it unethical for the coalition to accept that $100000?

No.

inclusion and social cohesion are the mainstay of the socialist life

Bwahahaha- history proves you wrong in so many ways

make it easier to rule....

I am glad that you know your place Dooley and accept that Righties know best to rule which we have done since time began and society has made great leaps forward because of us despite the like of you holding mankind back.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Dooley wrote on Mar 19^th, 2008 at 5:06pm:

deepthought wrote on Mar 19th, 2008 at 12:07pm: freediver wrote on Mar 19th, 2008 at 10:54am: So it's the paid holidays that matter now, not the $100000 they gave to the coalition? Maybe the coalition were just upset that they didn't get a bottle of grange too. Discussing ethicality or morality with you (and leftards generally) is similar to discussing beautiful landscapes with a blind man.  No matter how much detail you provide they will never see it. I suppose we rightys should simply accept that leftards take bribery and corruption in their stride - it's a way of life for them. However I will never lay down for the Liebor Party to walk on me as you seem eager to do. righturds could never understand the vagaries of life outside the myopoic bubble they assume contains all their is to know as the leftys have an natural inclination to do. inclusion and social cohesion are the mainstay of the socialist life, while righturds aim to cause fraction amongst the populace to make it easier to rule.... IQSRLOW ?????

Do you live in Australia Dooley?

Meantime a Qld Liebor minister has been sprung telling porkies - by one of his own!





Quote:

Qld Health Minister 'was warned of Torres Strait concerns' The controversy surrounding staff security on the Torres Strait has deepened after a Government MP said he warned the Health Minister in 2005 about concerns on the islands. Health Minister Stephen Robertson has repeatedly denied knowing about a 2006 safety audit until this month, when news broke of an alleged rape of a nurse on a remote island. Channel 10 has revealed one of the Government's own MPs, Jason O'Brien, wrote to Mr Robertson in 2005 about security issues and poor maintenance at a health clinic on Mer Island. Mr O'Brien says some improvements have been made, but at a frustrating pace. "I don't expect the Minister to go and change the locks," he said. "I expect the manager to go and make sure that it's done." Mr Robertson has been out of reach all day because he is visiting the Torres Strait checking repairs on Queensland Health accommodation. Whoopsy daisy, another Liebor pollie proving that Liebor is called Liebor for a very good reason

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2008 at 10:54am:

So it's the paid holidays that matter now, not the $100000 they gave to the coalition? Maybe the coalition were just upset that they didn't get a bottle of grange too.

Perhaps this will help you open your eyes.




Quote:

Boast on Kevin Rudd ties CHINESE entrepreneur Ian Tang boasted of his close friendship with Kevin Rudd and applauded Labor's election victory at a recent function in Beijing. Liberal MP Michael Johnson claims Mr Tang, whose firm Beijing AustChina Technology has poured more than $150,000 into ALP coffers, also talked of having good "guanxi" with the Prime Minister and Labor. The Chinese phrase roughly translates to mean someone owes the other a favour. The Opposition is demanding Mr Rudd, who will visit China next month, come clean on his links with Mr Tang, who has only very minor interests in Australia. Herro Kevvy, I have come to correct

Or this


Quote:

Political and business connections that carry a strong flavour It has yet to be explained precisely why Mr Tang was so happy to fly Mr Rudd and Labor colleagues Wayne Swan (now Treasurer) and Tony Burke (now Agriculture Minister) to and from China over the past four years, or why he paid for Mr Rudd to fly around the world in 2006 — to the US, Darfur, Britain and China. There is, as it happens, nothing under parliamentary rules wrong with MPs accepting such generosity, so long as it is all recorded on the pecuniary interests register. There is no parliamentary fund enabling Opposition members to travel internationally beyond specific study tours, so politicians of all stripes have taken freebies. Also lacking explanation is why Mr Tang's company donated $155,000 to the Nationals, and more than $230,000 to the NSW ALP. What we do know is that when Mr Tang and Mr Ho launched their redevelopment of the Friendship Store site the Nationals' then leader and deputy prime minister at the time, Mark Vaile, formally launched it. And we also know that Kevin Rudd, then the Labor Opposition's foreign affairs spokesman, was persuaded by Mr Tang to make an impromptu speech at the site dedication. All of which adds up to nothing more obvious — yet, anyway — than Mr Tang has been able to garner much friendship for his business from all sides of the Australian political spectrum. A talented operator, clearly. We are velly happy you win the erection

or this




Quote:

Rudd and Swan met Chinese tycoon SINCE Labor came to power, Kevin Rudd and two of his senior ministers have met the founder of a Chinese telecommunications company at the centre of a row over the Prime Minister's privately funded overseas travel. Mr Rudd, Wayne Swan and Agriculture Minister Tony Burke yesterday confirmed to The Australian they had met the founder of Beijing AustChina Technology, Ian Tang, since the election. The confirmation follows two days of Coalition attempts to draw a link between paid travel for MPs and political favours. The confirmation came after Mr Burke had, during question time, refused to disclose whether he had had any meetings with Mr Tang since becoming a minister. But a spokeswoman later told The Australian that Mr Burke met Mr Tang last month when he was in Australia. A spokesman for Mr Rudd said the Prime Minister had met Mr Tang "on one occasion" in late November. The Treasurer said he had met Mr Tang with a number of other MPs during the entrepreneur's visit to Australia. "Mr Tang was in Australia earlier this year and he caught up with a number of MPs from both sides of politics, including the Treasurer," a spokesman said last night. Mr Tang is an associate of Chinese gambling tycoon Stanley Ho. While Mr Rudd has jocularly referred to Mr Tang as "my Chinese controller", he has also been reported saying he had known Mr Tang only 'for "a couple of years" and was "not really across what he does". "I don't know what he does", says Kevvy, "but he knows what I do"

Eyes open yet freediver?

The smell gets worse in Qld's State Liebor Government.





Quote:

Qld nurse raised concerns before rape A nurse on Queensland's Torres Strait wrote to her local MP, raising concerns about security in the region, less than two weeks before another nurse was raped there. Channel Ten news said the nurse wrote to their local MP, government MP Jason O'Brien, on January 24. "The health centre is not secure because windows and door locks only work intermittently," the nurse wrote. The nurse said a request for a $10 smoke alarm was refused. "I have two young boys ... I am afraid if there is a fire, we won't get out," the nurse wrote. Another nurse was allegedly raped on Mabuiag Island on February 5, causing the Queensland Nurses Union (QNU) to threaten to leave the communities if security is not improved. Mr O'Brien passed on the nurse's letter to Health Minister Stephen Robertson on February 13, and received a response from an office manager on the 26th, which said the issue had been noted. "Obviously I'm not satisfied with the results, no, I'm quite angry," Mr O'Brien told Channel Ten. Channel Ten also revealed Mr O'Brien wrote to Mr Robertson in 2005, about the state public works branch, Q-Build, being slow to fix security issues on the Torres Strait. A clinic window had been damaged in a violent assault six weeks prior, and Q-Build hadn't responded despite being told immediately, Mr O'Brien wrote. Huh?  A nurse raped?  Liebor don't care - that's one Kevvy won't need to sack

this is a very serious stuffup that needs to addressed. sack the minister and demote the ps that are responsible for any of the shortcomings that fall on their shoulders.

Dooley wrote on Mar 24^th, 2008 at 1:27pm:

this is a very serious stuffup that needs to addressed. sack the minister and demote the ps that are responsible for any of the shortcomings that fall on their shoulders.

Perhaps prison for a few more Liebor mates might make them realise that people are important, it's not just about making yourself rich and looking after your Liebor mates.



Quote:

OH&S charges for nurse rape - Springborg QUEENSLAND Opposition Leader Lawrence Springborg has asked the Director of Public Prosecutions to consider charging those responsible for the workplace conditions that led to the alleged rape of a nurse. State Health Minister Stephen Robertson has been accused of failing to act on three reports warning of safety problems as far back as 2005, after it was revealed a nurse was raped at Mabuiag Island on February 5. The Queensland Nurses Union (QNU) has threatened to pull nurses out of the Torres Strait if security is not improved by this Friday. Mr Springborg today wrote to Director of Public Prosecutions Leanne Clare, asking her to consider charges under the Workplace Health and Safety Act 1995. He said the laws required all employers, including the government, to provide a safe workplace. "Any other employer in Queensland is bound by the act of parliament that regulates their workplace," Mr Springborg said. "If they ignore the simple rules and regulations about their employees' safety and something happens, then they are charged, they are penalised, they can actually go to jail and if not, be fined. "Why, from the minister down, did they actually ignore serious concerns about the workplace for nurses in Queensland, particularly in remote communities?" The QNU is meeting with senior Queensland Health officials today. When will they start caring?

It seems that the DPP may not be the place to lodge complaints about nurses being raped according to the Liebor Premier Anna Bligh - it is the Office of Workplace Health and Safety.  They take care of those matters she reckons.




Quote:

Springborg doesn't understand Qld legal system: Bligh Queensland Premier Anna Bligh says the Opposition leader has referred the Health Minister to the wrong office in relation to the Torres Strait health controversy. Lawrence Springborg has asked the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) to consider whether the Minister and bureaucrats should be charged with breaching workplace safety laws. Ms Bligh says that has nothing to do with the DPP. "The leader of the Opposition reveals again his stunning lack of understanding of our legal system," she said. "He was calling for the DPP to be dismissed, and here four weeks later he is now calling on her to do something that is outside her jurisdiction or powers. "The DPP does not bring prosecutions for breaches of the Health and Safety Act, that is a matter that is dealt with by the Office of Workplace Health and Safety." Umm Anna, have you forgotten what happened?  A woman was seriously assaulted

Far from caring about the raped mushroom though Anna Bligh is taking great delight in ridiculing the Leader of the Opposition.  I would have thought that if the DPP was the wrong place, and according to Anna Bligh it is, that Anna Bligh would be hurriedly reporting the matter to the right place - and she said she knows who that is.  But has she?  I see no evidence she has.  I wonder why?  Doesn't really care about the welfare of Australians?  Just interested in putting on a show for the media?

I'm guessing that's so.

deepthought wrote on Mar 15^th, 2008 at 7:32am:

This is so typical of the Liebor Party.  The woman who blew the whistle on a paedophile was sacked, apparently for blowing the whistle. Quote: Orkopoulos alarm-raiser sacked THE woman who helped raise the alarm about disgraced former NSW Aboriginal affairs minister Milton Orkopoulos has been sacked by the state parliament from her electorate office job. Orkopoulos was found guilty of 28 paedophilia and drug charges yesterday. However Gillian Sneddon, Orkopoulos's former electorate officer in the Hunter seat of Swansea, who helped collect evidence from his office for police, had her employment terminated last month -  the day she began to give evidence at the Orkopoulos trial, The Sydney Morning Herald reports. She had been on stress leave and is fighting a workers' compensation claim against parliament. Premier Morris Iemma has said her situation is a matter for parliament. She told the Herald yesterday if she had kept my mouth shut, it would have been covered up. The "treatment of me the whole way down the line, from the parliament, from my colleagues, from Labor politicians, (has) been a disgrace''. Ms Sneddon has been on workers' compensation since being locked out of the office in late 2006 while assisting police retrieve evidence in the case, the Herald reported. Who votes for these people!!!!!! Cover ups are so typical for Liebor crooks.   It has happened in pretty well every other state as well as NSW before. And of course the Dr Death scandal led to huge torment for the whistle blower Toni Hoffman.  She was vilified, while the Liebor Health Minister (now before the courts himself) Nuttall fudged, blustered and pretended nothing was wrong. They make me want to vote Liberal.  Oh that's right.  I do.

Well I think the worst thing a government could do would be to illegally invade another country, as the rodent did, or even worse would be to sell iron to an enemy as the japanese were during ww2 and ofcouse pig iron bob Menzies did that, both should have been dragged before the courts and charged with their unaustralian actions.

wrote on Mar 29^th, 2008 at 9:59am:

Well I think the worst thing a government could do would be to illegally invade another country, as the rodent did, or even worse would be to sell iron to an enemy as the japanese were during ww2 and ofcouse pig iron bob Menzies did that, both should have been dragged before the courts and charged with their unaustralian actions.

Could you provide evidence of your baseless allegations please.

deepthought wrote on Mar 29^th, 2008 at 11:06am:

wrote on Mar 29th, 2008 at 9:59am: Well I think the worst thing a government could do would be to illegally invade another country, as the rodent did, or even worse would be to sell iron to an enemy as the japanese were during ww2 and ofcouse pig iron bob Menzies did that, both should have been dragged before the courts and charged with their unaustralian actions. Could you provide evidence of your baseless allegations please.

Its in all the history books, Why do you think Menzies nickname was PIGIRON BOB? look if you know so little about oz politics why do you persist with your posting on a political website? you cant rewrite history nothought its all there in black and white for all to see. As for the rodent, the only people who dont believe he invaded another country without UN aproval are himself and those gullible enough to believe him, like you.

wrote on Mar 29^th, 2008 at 11:17am:

deepthought wrote on Mar 29th, 2008 at 11:06am: wrote on Mar 29th, 2008 at 9:59am: Well I think the worst thing a government could do would be to illegally invade another country, as the rodent did, or even worse would be to sell iron to an enemy as the japanese were during ww2 and ofcouse pig iron bob Menzies did that, both should have been dragged before the courts and charged with their unaustralian actions. Could you provide evidence of your baseless allegations please. Its in all the history books, Why do you think Menzies nickname was PIGIRON BOB? look if you know so little about oz politics why do you persist with your posting on a political website? you cant rewrite history nothought its all there in black and white for all to see. As for the rodent, the only people who dont believe he invaded another country without UN aproval are himself and those gullible enough to believe him, like you.

I'm asking you to back yourself.   Don't expect me to do your research for you.  But I understand if you are unable to support your slurs.  You won't be the first leftoid to make such absurd allegations then vanish when the pressure is on to come through with something little understood by the leftard - facts.

deepthought wrote on Mar 29^th, 2008 at 11:21am:

wrote on Mar 29th, 2008 at 11:17am: deepthought wrote on Mar 29th, 2008 at 11:06am: wrote on Mar 29th, 2008 at 9:59am: Well I think the worst thing a government could do would be to illegally invade another country, as the rodent did, or even worse would be to sell iron to an enemy as the japanese were during ww2 and ofcouse pig iron bob Menzies did that, both should have been dragged before the courts and charged with their unaustralian actions. Could you provide evidence of your baseless allegations please. Its in all the history books, Why do you think Menzies nickname was PIGIRON BOB? look if you know so little about oz politics why do you persist with your posting on a political website? you cant rewrite history nothought its all there in black and white for all to see. As for the rodent, the only people who dont believe he invaded another country without UN aproval are himself and those gullible enough to believe him, like you. I'm asking you to back yourself.   Don't expect me to do your research for you.  But I understand if you are unable to support your slurs.  You won't be the first leftoid to make such absurd allegations then vanish when the pressure is on to come through with something little understood by the leftard - facts.

Its not my job to explain things to you that are tought to 10 year olds in school, maybe your a blow in since ww2 and you never learnt history at an Australian school, try going to tech they have classes for people like you who have had a limited education.

wrote on Mar 29^th, 2008 at 11:40am:

Its not my job to explain things to you that are tought to 10 year olds in school, maybe your a blow in since ww2 and you never learnt history at an Australian school, try going to tech they have classes for people like you who have had a limited education.

I'm not at all surprised to see you slink away without supporting yourself athiest.  It is as I said - leftards are high on rhetoric, slurs and allegations but low on facts, truth or integrity.  That's why they are leftards.

If you believed in yourself and knew what you were talking about you'd be willing to back your wild and baseless claims.  And if the knowledge was so readily available you'd tap it out in a moment.

deepthought wrote on Mar 29^th, 2008 at 1:33pm:

wrote on Mar 29th, 2008 at 11:40am: Its not my job to explain things to you that are tought to 10 year olds in school, maybe your a blow in since ww2 and you never learnt history at an Australian school, try going to tech they have classes for people like you who have had a limited education. I'm not at all surprised to see you slink away without supporting yourself athiest.  It is as I said - leftards are high on rhetoric, slurs and allegations but low on facts, truth or integrity.  That's why they are leftards. If you believed in yourself and knew what you were talking about you'd be willing to back your wild and baseless claims.  And if the knowledge was so readily available you'd tap it out in a moment.

From menzies oficial bio--

"In 1938, waterside unions put a ban on the export of iron to Japan in protest of Japanese actions in Manchuria (China). Menzies threatened them with Transport Workers’ Act 1929, and so forced them to load iron for Japan. Subsequently, he earnt the nickname "Pig Iron Bob"


Which Japan sent back to Australia in the form of bombs. I'll tell you what nothought, seeing as though you like everyone to put things in black and white, why dont you show me somthing that disputes what ive said. It seems my assumption you did not go to school in oz was correct so therefore you obviosly know bugger all about australia's past, and from the crap you write do not understand its present or recent past either.

wrote on Mar 29^th, 2008 at 2:49pm:

deepthought wrote on Mar 29th, 2008 at 1:33pm: wrote on Mar 29th, 2008 at 11:40am: Its not my job to explain things to you that are tought to 10 year olds in school, maybe your a blow in since ww2 and you never learnt history at an Australian school, try going to tech they have classes for people like you who have had a limited education. I'm not at all surprised to see you slink away without supporting yourself athiest.  It is as I said - leftards are high on rhetoric, slurs and allegations but low on facts, truth or integrity.  That's why they are leftards. If you believed in yourself and knew what you were talking about you'd be willing to back your wild and baseless claims.  And if the knowledge was so readily available you'd tap it out in a moment. From menzies oficial bio-- "In 1938, waterside unions put a ban on the export of iron to Japan in protest of Japanese actions in Manchuria (China). Menzies threatened them with Transport Workers’ Act 1929, and so forced them to load iron for Japan. Subsequently, he earnt the nickname "Pig Iron Bob" Which Japan sent back to Australia in the form of bombs. I'll tell you what nothought, seeing as though you like everyone to put things in black and white, why dont you show me somthing that disputes what ive said. It seems my assumption you did not go to school in oz was correct so therefore you obviosly know bugger all about australia's past, and from the crap you write do not understand its present or recent past either.

Whoopsy Daisy athiest.  That says 1938 if I'm not mistaken.  Perhaps you could check your history book and find out just when WW2 started and just when Japan entered that war.

But you also said that someone (a rodent) "illegally invade(d) another country"

Your evidence if you would please.

deepthought wrote on Mar 29^th, 2008 at 3:37pm:

wrote on Mar 29th, 2008 at 2:49pm: deepthought wrote on Mar 29th, 2008 at 1:33pm: wrote on Mar 29th, 2008 at 11:40am: Its not my job to explain things to you that are tought to 10 year olds in school, maybe your a blow in since ww2 and you never learnt history at an Australian school, try going to tech they have classes for people like you who have had a limited education. I'm not at all surprised to see you slink away without supporting yourself athiest.  It is as I said - leftards are high on rhetoric, slurs and allegations but low on facts, truth or integrity.  That's why they are leftards. If you believed in yourself and knew what you were talking about you'd be willing to back your wild and baseless claims.  And if the knowledge was so readily available you'd tap it out in a moment. From menzies oficial bio-- "In 1938, waterside unions put a ban on the export of iron to Japan in protest of Japanese actions in Manchuria (China). Menzies threatened them with Transport Workers’ Act 1929, and so forced them to load iron for Japan. Subsequently, he earnt the nickname "Pig Iron Bob" Which Japan sent back to Australia in the form of bombs. I'll tell you what nothought, seeing as though you like everyone to put things in black and white, why dont you show me somthing that disputes what ive said. It seems my assumption you did not go to school in oz was correct so therefore you obviosly know bugger all about australia's past, and from the crap you write do not understand its present or recent past either. Whoopsy Daisy athiest.  That says 1938 if I'm not mistaken.  Perhaps you could check your history book and find out just when WW2 started and just when Japan entered that war. But you also said that someone (a rodent) "illegally invade(d) another country" Your evidence if you would please.

Nothought you are clearly unaustralian but then your not really an ozzie at all are you?  it seems you know more about Japan than you do Oz, maybe your a nip, as for the rodent unless you have been living under a rock for the past 12 years (which may explain a lot) its your hero's nickname aptly named the lying little rodent by a member of his own party.

wrote on Mar 29^th, 2008 at 3:49pm:

Nothought you are clearly unaustralian but then your not really an ozzie at all are you?  it seems you know more about Japan than you do Oz, maybe your a nip, as for the rodent unless you have been living under a rock for the past 12 years (which may explain a lot) its your hero's nickname aptly named the lying little rodent by a member of his own party.

It's irrelevant what I am or am not.   But your evidence if you please old chap.  Stop blustering and attempting to insult me.  Just back your empty claims mate.

deepthought wrote on Mar 29^th, 2008 at 3:51pm:

wrote on Mar 29th, 2008 at 3:49pm: Nothought you are clearly unaustralian but then your not really an ozzie at all are you?  it seems you know more about Japan than you do Oz, maybe your a nip, as for the rodent unless you have been living under a rock for the past 12 years (which may explain a lot) its your hero's nickname aptly named the lying little rodent by a member of his own party. It's irrelevant what I am or am not.   But your evidence if you please old chap.  Stop blustering and attempting to insult me.  Just back your empty claims mate.

Whats the point, you live in denial, my 5 year old has better comprehension skills than you. Its all there for anyone who wants to look at the facts but you old chap seem to prefer fiction, a trait commonly practiced by right whingers.

my 5 year old has better comprehension skills than you.

Although it's sad that you have been allowed to breed, you'd be better off giving control of the keyboard to your spawn.

She would probably make much more sense than you and I gather her childish taunts would trump yours emphatically

IQSRLOW wrote on Mar 30^th, 2008 at 1:39pm:

my 5 year old has better comprehension skills than you. Although it's sad that you have been allowed to breed, you'd be better off giving control of the keyboard to your spawn. She would probably make much more sense than you and I gather her childish taunts would trump yours emphatically

Oh goody I'm being trolled by noiq, lucky me, your so witty,ha ha ha

Oh goody I'm being trolled by noiq, lucky me, your so witty,ha ha ha

This must be your 5 year old judging by the grammar.

Be a good little dear and go kick daddy in the nuts so you won't have to share your fathers measly pay packet with another sibling and the resultant reduced stream of idiot DNA will will be a bonus for the rest of the world

IQSRLOW wrote on Mar 30^th, 2008 at 1:51pm:

Oh goody I'm being trolled by noiq, lucky me, your so witty,ha ha ha This must be your 5 year old judging by the grammar. Be a good little dear and go kick daddy in the nuts so you won't have to share your fathers measly pay packet with another sibling and the resultant reduced stream of idiot DNA will will be a bonus for the rest of the world

Noiq, thats it I like it when you talk dirty, your a bit like a mozzy arn't you always buzzing about aimlessly. Hey havn't seen you at cracker lately, oh thats right your banned from there too, gee you must be running out of places to troll.

Still at cracker Apeiest- you probably miss a lot of posts with only one eye open and a head full of poo

try linux and a couple of others atheist.    ::)

Shes so hard to pick...lol

wrote on Mar 30^th, 2008 at 1:14pm:

deepthought wrote on Mar 29th, 2008 at 3:51pm: wrote on Mar 29th, 2008 at 3:49pm: Nothought you are clearly unaustralian but then your not really an ozzie at all are you?  it seems you know more about Japan than you do Oz, maybe your a nip, as for the rodent unless you have been living under a rock for the past 12 years (which may explain a lot) its your hero's nickname aptly named the lying little rodent by a member of his own party. It's irrelevant what I am or am not.   But your evidence if you please old chap.  Stop blustering and attempting to insult me.  Just back your empty claims mate. Whats the point, you live in denial, my 5 year old has better comprehension skills than you. Its all there for anyone who wants to look at the facts but you old chap seem to prefer fiction, a trait commonly practiced by right whingers.

I reckon you should get that kid logged on.  I want to know how Menzies was exporting ore during the war as you alleged (yet provided evidence he had done so before the war only - in fact Menzies was not even PM when the war against Japan was declared by the allies) and which rodent got involved in which illegal war (and no evidence at all was provided).

Is the kid there?

deepthought wrote on Mar 30^th, 2008 at 3:50pm:

wrote on Mar 30th, 2008 at 1:14pm: deepthought wrote on Mar 29th, 2008 at 3:51pm: wrote on Mar 29th, 2008 at 3:49pm: Nothought you are clearly unaustralian but then your not really an ozzie at all are you?  it seems you know more about Japan than you do Oz, maybe your a nip, as for the rodent unless you have been living under a rock for the past 12 years (which may explain a lot) its your hero's nickname aptly named the lying little rodent by a member of his own party. It's irrelevant what I am or am not.   But your evidence if you please old chap.  Stop blustering and attempting to insult me.  Just back your empty claims mate. Whats the point, you live in denial, my 5 year old has better comprehension skills than you. Its all there for anyone who wants to look at the facts but you old chap seem to prefer fiction, a trait commonly practiced by right whingers. I reckon you should get that kid logged on.  I want to know how Menzies was exporting ore during the war as you alleged (yet provided evidence he had done so before the war only - in fact Menzies was not even PM when the war against Japan was declared by the allies) and which rodent got involved in which illegal war (and no evidence at all was provided). Is the kid there?

Any ozy would know Menzies was selling iron to japan, if you want to refute that go ahead , no one with an Australian education would be that silly, as for the rodent I sugest you do a bit of reading elsewhere, those far right loony neo con papers you are reading are dulling your brain.

Any ozy would know Menzies was selling iron to japan

I knew nothing about it.

Just because we weren't yet at war with them doesn't make it OK. Whether it was 'wrong' would depend on the public mood regarding Japan's aggression at the time. If they were seen as a military threat to us and everyone else had stopped trading with them, then it would be wrong. For example, I'm pretty sure most of the AWB's crimes were committed before the current war began.

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2008 at 1:33pm:

Any ozy would know Menzies was selling iron to japan I knew nothing about it. Just because we weren't yet at war with them doesn't make it OK. Whether it was 'wrong' would depend on the public mood regarding Japan's aggression at the time. If they were seen as a military threat to us and everyone else had stopped trading with them, then it would be wrong. For example, I'm pretty sure most of the AWB's crimes were committed before the current war began.

It's probably already mentioned among all that gibber ^^^^^^^ above DT, but the sale of iron to Japan pre-War was how he earned the tag "Pig Iron Bob."  There was general bitterness that what Bob sold to the Japs our Diggers were shot with it.

Aussie wrote on Mar 31^st, 2008 at 2:19pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 31st, 2008 at 1:33pm: Any ozy would know Menzies was selling iron to japan I knew nothing about it. Just because we weren't yet at war with them doesn't make it OK. Whether it was 'wrong' would depend on the public mood regarding Japan's aggression at the time. If they were seen as a military threat to us and everyone else had stopped trading with them, then it would be wrong. For example, I'm pretty sure most of the AWB's crimes were committed before the current war began. It's probably already mentioned among all that gibber ^^^^^^^ above DT, but the sale of iron to Japan pre-War was how he earned the tag "Pig Iron Bob."  There was general bitterness that what Bob sold to the Japs our Diggers were shot with it.

Were his actions illegal?

deepthought wrote on Mar 31^st, 2008 at 6:21pm:

Aussie wrote on Mar 31st, 2008 at 2:19pm: freediver wrote on Mar 31st, 2008 at 1:33pm: Any ozy would know Menzies was selling iron to japan I knew nothing about it. Just because we weren't yet at war with them doesn't make it OK. Whether it was 'wrong' would depend on the public mood regarding Japan's aggression at the time. If they were seen as a military threat to us and everyone else had stopped trading with them, then it would be wrong. For example, I'm pretty sure most of the AWB's crimes were committed before the current war began. It's probably already mentioned among all that gibber ^^^^^^^ above DT, but the sale of iron to Japan pre-War was how he earned the tag "Pig Iron Bob."  There was general bitterness that what Bob sold to the Japs our Diggers were shot with it. Were his actions illegal?

No, just unaustralian. Menzies was more interested in Britain than Australia.He wouldn't even fight for his country,Menzies resigned his officers commision in 1915 to ensure he was not sent overseas to fight for his country, he was not a brave man.

Legality is a pretty low bar to set for the people who make the laws.

wrote on Apr 1^st, 2008 at 10:37am:

deepthought wrote on Mar 31st, 2008 at 6:21pm: Aussie wrote on Mar 31st, 2008 at 2:19pm: freediver wrote on Mar 31st, 2008 at 1:33pm: Any ozy would know Menzies was selling iron to japan I knew nothing about it. Just because we weren't yet at war with them doesn't make it OK. Whether it was 'wrong' would depend on the public mood regarding Japan's aggression at the time. If they were seen as a military threat to us and everyone else had stopped trading with them, then it would be wrong. For example, I'm pretty sure most of the AWB's crimes were committed before the current war began. It's probably already mentioned among all that gibber ^^^^^^^ above DT, but the sale of iron to Japan pre-War was how he earned the tag "Pig Iron Bob."  There was general bitterness that what Bob sold to the Japs our Diggers were shot with it. Were his actions illegal? No, just unaustralian. Menzies was more interested in Britain than Australia.He wouldn't even fight for his country,Menzies resigned his officers commision in 1915 to ensure he was not sent overseas to fight for his country, he was not a brave man.

Impressive swerving but I thought you said


Quote:

or even worse would be to sell iron to an enemy as the japanese were during ww2 and ofcouse pig iron bob Menzies did that, . . . . should have been dragged before the courts and charged with . . . unaustralian actions.

First the Japanese were not 'an enemy' as we were not in a war with Japan.

Second the iron sales you talk about were before any war Australia was involved in had begun - WW2 did not commence until 1939 and Japan did not join until a couple of years later.

Third 'unaustralian' is subjective and is not a crime.

Fourth the government should determine foreign trade issues - not unions - that's what they are elected for.

freediver wrote on Apr 1^st, 2008 at 11:16am:

Legality is a pretty low bar to set for the people who make the laws.

Not quite right.

Australia is a country guided by 'the rule of law'.  No law may be unconstitutional if it is to survive the judiciary. No one is above the law.

Quote:

Second the iron sales you talk about were before any war Australia was involved in had begun - WW2 did not commence until 1939 and Japan did not join until a couple of years later.

Sticking the neck out here a tad, 'cause I haven't checked but I reckon that ^^^^ from DT, is convenient.

Memory suggests to me that when Pig Iron Bob was flogging our stuff to Japan, they had invaded China.

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2008 at 6:29pm:

Quote: Second the iron sales you talk about were before any war Australia was involved in had begun - WW2 did not commence until 1939 and Japan did not join until a couple of years later. Sticking the neck out here a tad, 'cause I haven't checked but I reckon that ^^^^ from DT, is convenient. Memory suggests to me that when Pig Iron Bob was flogging our stuff to Japan, they had invaded China.

Quite right.  But it wasn't our battle.  If nations stopped trading with other sovereign nations when they start feuding no one would be trading with anyone much.  But we are miles off topic.  It seems to be a method of debate to try and disrupt the flow by dragging unrelated stuff into the thread.

No, not really.  It could easily be argued, in hindsight, that Pig Iron Bob helped arm the Japs for WWII.  He certainly presented the raw material which assisted the Japs to invade China.

................and DT, it was all 'down hill' from there, was it not?

ergo, the flip side of the Thread..............Lieberal, a haven for (war) criminals.

Menzies gave the Japs some of the metal they needed to kill our Diggers.

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2008 at 7:36pm:

No, not really.  It could easily be argued, in hindsight, that Pig Iron Bob helped arm the Japs for WWII.  He certainly presented the raw material which assisted the Japs to invade China. ................and DT, it was all 'down hill' from there, was it not? ergo, the flip side of the Thread..............Lieberal, a haven for (war) criminals. Menzies gave the Japs some of the metal they needed to kill our Diggers.

You are saying Menzies could foretell the future?  He alone knew of the impending war with Japan some 3 or 4 years in the future?

No doubt he also stood down in 1941 before the war with Japan was declared because he knew about Pearl Harbour in advance and didn't want to be called 'Pig Iron Bob' any more.

None of that, at all, DT.

Fact is............he helped arm Japan to invade eg, China.  (It did not stop there, of course.)

Do you wish to argue that was for the benefit of the Chinese people?

Pretending that a country is not an enemy until the point when you are officially at war is naive in the extreme. The AWB got done for their deals with Saddam before the current war began. If the government rules that we can sell stuff to them, their will never be any constitutional barriers. That's any even lower bar than legality, which I didn't think was possible.

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2008 at 7:54pm:

None of that, at all, DT. Fact is............he helped arm Japan to invade eg, China.  (It did not stop there, of course.) Do you wish to argue that was for the benefit of the Chinese people?

No.  It was for the benefit of our two peoples.  Australia and Japan.  China was not a party to the trade and is irrelevant.


freediver wrote on Apr 1^st, 2008 at 8:29pm:

Pretending that a country is not an enemy until the point when you are officially at war is naive in the extreme. The AWB got done for their deals with Saddam before the current war began. If the government rules that we can sell stuff to them, their will never be any constitutional barriers. That's any even lower bar than legality, which I didn't think was possible.

Sadly, but as always, you are dead wrong.

First no one can tell the future (despite Aussie's revelations about the clairvoyant skills of Bob Menzies).   It is naive to believe it is so.

Second no one knows in advance a war, or any war, will break out - even up to the eve of it.  It is naive to think anything is certain.

Third the Japanese were not an 'enemy' of Australia in 1937-8.  It is naive to think they were.

Fourth the Commonwealth Constitution deals with matters of international trade - it is naive to think you know better than the framers of it.

Fifth neither the government nor any individual may break laws - our constitional democracy is founded on the rule of law.  Only the naive thinks that complying with the constitution is lower than legality.

Fifth Saddam Hussein is not relevant to China nor Japan.  It is naive to think he has any bearing on this off topic meandering.

Sadly- FD and Aussie think that applying their standards of morality in hindsight makes them think they are right and it should be applied retrospectively.

Your are correct DT- naivety in the extreme.

Fact is DT......Pig Iron Bob sold the Japs stuff, ours, they needed to wage a War, one which directly led into WWII, and there is no way you can argue otherwise.

You can prance, dance and postulate, but it will not re-write history.

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2008 at 9:04pm:

Fact is DT......Pig Iron Bob sold the Japs stuff, ours, they needed to wage a War, one which directly led into WWII, and there is no way you can argue otherwise. You can prance, dance and postulate, but it will not re-write history.

Quite wrong.  As usual.

WW2 began in Europe.  The Japanese chose to involve themselves in 1941.

Your are correct DT- naivety in the extreme.

Requoted so that maybe Aussie will get it...one day

IQSRLOW wrote on Apr 1^st, 2008 at 9:14pm:

Your are correct DT- naivety in the extreme. Requoted so that maybe Aussie will get it...one day

Hence the term 'leftard'.  I have no idea why leftys don't educate themselves about political reality and prefer to remain politically retarded.

See the Japanese had been tussling with China for the previous forty plus years.  In fact the first Sino Japanese war was being fought at the time of Menzies birth.

IQ, it's not just hindsight. He was criticised at the time for doing it. When a country starts invading it's neighbours, it doesn't exactly take a genious to figure out that they are a threat to everyone. Menzies may have tried to ignore this inconvienient issue, but it was obvious to the rest of the country.

freediver wrote on Apr 1^st, 2008 at 9:30pm:

IQ, it's not just hindsight. He was criticised at the time for doing it. When a country starts invading it's neighbours, it doesn't exactly take a genious to figure out that they are a threat to everyone. Menzies may have tried to ignore this inconvienient issue, but it was obvious to the rest of the country.

Like China and Tibet free?

freediver wrote on Apr 1^st, 2008 at 9:30pm:

IQ, it's not just hindsight. He was criticised at the time for doing it. When a country starts invading it's neighbours, it doesn't exactly take a genious to figure out that they are a threat to everyone. Menzies may have tried to ignore this inconvienient issue, but it was obvious to the rest of the country.

Pig Iron Kev?  What do you reckon freediver?  It's your belief the Chinese are a threat to everyone, yet Pig Iron Kevvy is racing to trade with them.  An illegal act?  Lower than illegality?  What are your thoughts now it is your hero Cardboard Kev?




Quote:

Iron ore pricing will test Rudd IT will be iron ore rather than Tibet that will be the real test of Kevin Rudd's diplomatic skills in China next week. It fits the definition of Australian national interest, all wrapped into one very expensive, multi-layered package. The Prime Minister is already dealing with the impact of the big two resources companies fighting bitterly in relation to BHP Billiton's bid for Rio Tinto. This has been made far more complicated by the very pointed opposition of the Chinese to any such merger. BHP and Rio are also arguing with the Chinese to win a massive increase in the contract price of the iron ore they deliver to feed the voracious demand. Yesterday just happened to be the iron ore equivalent of D-Day - the official starting date for the prices for the next year, which will be backdated to April 1 when everyone finally agrees what those will be. These games of brinkmanship are unlikely to be over before Rudd's four-day visit, starting on April 10, and they certainly won't improve the political atmosphere. The mandate of heaven isn't cheap. To general outrage from the Chinese steel mills, BHP and Rio both insist that the 65 to 71 per cent increase won by Brazil's Vale is not enough. They want more, plus a freight differential to account for the lower cost of shipping from Australia. Not that the Australian resources companies are colluding in any way, of course. That would be illegal. But they will both mysteriously end up negotiating the very same price as each other and the mutual and concerted pressure is very useful in tightening the squeeze on the Chinese. Similarly, the Chinese insist there is no official government effort to block deliveries of Australia iron ore diverted to the higher-priced spot market. After all, that sort of action would be against the rules as well. It just so happens that there are all sorts of delays on import licence applications at the moment. Funny, that. None of this will make Rudd's day job as Australia's Inflation-Buster-In-Chief any easier. Think what a sudden increase of over 70 per cent in payments to a massive national export industry will do for the war on inflation. But even that is a very small dilemma compared to a more fundamental challenge confronting the Rudd Government in its relations with China. This is the question of how much is enough when it comes to Chinese investment in the Australian resources industry, particularly iron ore. The Government has carefully avoided answering this question in the lead-up to the Rudd visit. That's partly because it's not sure what the answer is, either. There are subtle but discernible signs that the new Canberra is deeply suspicious of the argument that large-scale Chinese investment in the Australian resources industry is both inevitable and desirable. That is even though it is desperate to assure the Chinese that Australia's investment policy is not discriminatory in any way and certainly not directed at the Chinese. The Chinese are less than convinced. Pig Iron Kev leads the way with the 'enemy'

interesting the aus dollar dropped.