You would have assumed that the father and daughter would have been charged with some offence, but apparently they're just being monitored.  Strange.


A South Australian woman has given birth to her father's daughter after the couple had sex.

John and Jenny Deaves reunited 30 years after Mr Deaves separated from Jenny's mother.

Jenny was 31 and just two weeks after meeting, father and daughter had sex.

"John and I are in this relationship as consenting adults," Mrs Deaves told the Nine Network's 60 Minutes tonight.

"We are just asking for a little bit of respect and understanding."

Their nine-month-old daughter Celeste, shown on TV, appears fit and healthy.

Mrs Deaves said soon after reuniting with her father she began to see him as a man first and her father second.

"I was looking at him, sort of going, oh, he's not too bad.

"Like you might look at a man across the bar at a nightclub."

Mrs Deaves brought two children, Samantha and Alex, into the relationship after splitting from her former partner.

Mr Deaves admitted that he "initially" thought having sex with his daughter was wrong.

"Emotions take over, as people no doubt realise, there are times during your life where emotions do rule the heart, it rules the head," he said.

"I knew it was illegal, of course I knew it was illegal but you know, so what."

Mrs Deaves said the physical relationship with her father was like "a sexual relationship with any other man".

For Mr Deaves the sexual relationship was "absolutely fantastic".

A South Australian police media spokesman tonight told AAP "the couple is being monitored".

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/dad-and-daughter-have-daughter/2008/04/07/1207420238498.html

Yes I saw this one mantra...very weird and the interveiwer almost normalised the union. They did not see anything wrong with it...the mind boggles, her own father. The child LOOKS normal enough..

I know of a few first cousins here and no doubt its common in other towns/cities as well , who've married and had kids.

So they are monitoring the couple? Sounds ridiculous to me. They will have relations regardless.

very weird and the interveiwer almost normalised the union

That's how you get people to talk.

There was some news on it this morning.  60 minutes didn't tell the full story.  They had a child earlier in the relationship, which died shortly after birth with a congential heart defect, so they were lucky the second time around.

I didn't see the story on TV, but apparently they were charged earlier on in their relationship and are supposedly living together without having a sexual relationship.  Sure!

This isn't the first time I've heard of this happening - but it is taboo and unless there a stricter laws, something like this could end up being considered acceptable, although not common.

Indeed - how are they going to "monitor the situation"?
A webcam in the bedroom?

No, It'll never be acceptable. For moral and health reasons.
Anyone unsure that is it wrong for a mum to shag her son?

http://news.smh.com.au/police-probe-nine-offer-to-incest-pair/20080409-24uq.html

Police are investigating allegations of payment by the Nine Network to a South Australian father and daughter convicted of incest after having two children together.

John Earnest Deaves, 61, and his oldest daughter Jennifer, 39, allegedly gained financially from a 60 Minutes interview aired on Sunday about their seven-and-a-half year affair.

Hamish Thomson, the executive producer of 60 Minutes, said money was offered to the couple.

"We bought them some clothes and they might have to move town and we have offered to give them some money to cover the costs of their move, if that happens," he told News Ltd.

"We bought them some clothes because they are very poor.

"We literally bought them clothes for filming, from Target."

South Australian police are now investigating because under state law, convicted criminals cannot profit directly from their crime.

"It is being looked at," a police media spokesman said.

In March this year, the couple were placed on three-year good behaviour bonds after pleading guilty in the District Court in Mt Gambier to two counts of incest related to the sex that led to the births of their two daughters.

This couple aren't the full quid, that much is obvious.  Their little girl didn't look quite normal either.  They are so sure they are right and all the media attention surrounding them is just desensitising people to the seriousness of their crime.

It was legal when Australia was under Aboriginal rule.

Quote:

It was legal when Australia was under Aboriginal rule.

I don't know if it was AN.  Aboriginal history tells us that they were very careful about inbreeding and would swap young girls from different tribes to ensure that there was genetic diversity amongst the clans.

It could be different now, but incest is apparently alive and thriving in all races and cultures.

You're letting facts get in the way of convenient racial slurs.

Provider navigation:
Summary | AAP | ABC | Photos
Friday April 11, 05:43 PM
Incest couple to leave home after attack
A father and daughter in an incestuous relationship plan to move from their rural South Australian home because of a vandal attack.

John Earnest Deaves, 61, and his oldest daughter Jennifer, 39, have admitted having two children together, with one dying shortly after birth.

ADVERTISEMENT


In March this year, the couple were placed on three-year good behaviour bonds after pleading guilty in the Mt Gambier District Court in SA's south-east to two counts of incest related to the sex that led to the births of their two daughters.

Their first baby was born in 2001 but died a few days later due to a congenital heart disease. Their second daughter was born in May last year.

The pair went public last Sunday on the Nine Network's 60 Minutes program.

On Friday, Ms Deaves released a statement on the show's website describing the last week as "unbelievable, hectic and stressful".

"But we have no regrets about going public," Ms Deaves said.

"Public reaction has been varied.

"We have had support and, of course, we've had the expected negativity.

"We wanted to open some eyes and make people realise that genetic sexual attraction is out there and it's happening, and we feel we have achieved that."

Ms Deaves said they planned to leave their current home city.

"We do plan to move on from Mount Gambier, not because we are trying to hide from anyone or anything but because of the fact our car was vandalised," she said.

"People obviously know where we live and they could do this sort of thing again - hopefully not again, but you never know."

Ms Deaves said she wanted to clarify the death of their first child, Jackson, was from a congenital heart defect.

"Jackson's death has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that John and I are related," she said.

Ms Deaves said they were abiding by the court ruling, which stipulated they should not have further sexual intercourse.

She said they went public with their relationship "in order to bring awareness within society of genetic sexual attraction".

"We are currently planning a genetic sexual attraction foundation in order to promote research on GSA and to offer support to those that experience GSA," she said.

Police are investigating an alleged payment by the Nine Network to the Deaves.

Why is everyone so negative about this?

According to the Good 'ol Aussie values of Freedom and Secularism, shouldn't these two "consenting adults" be allowed to do whatever they like in their own bedroom? Isn't this what Aussie values are all about?

This highlights the clear problem in Australian society. You begin to sanctify freedom and inidvidualism, and you legalise fornication... then adultery... then homosexuality... then incest.... what's next? where does it all end? It doesn't, it is a constant spiral downwards, what will it take for people to realise that it leads to the decay of society?

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 4^th, 2008 at 1:47am:

This highlights the clear problem in Australian society. You begin to sanctify freedom and inidvidualism, and you legalise fornication... then adultery... then homosexuality... then incest.... what's next? where does it all end? It doesn't, it is a constant spiral downwards, what will it take for people to realise that it leads to the decay of society?

That's right. There are no homosexuals in Iran. They made them illegal, so they don't exist. (Whisper: If they ever catch any, the secret police like to whip them, but it's our secret, right)

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2007/09/memo-to-mahmoud-iran-is-totally-gay.php

As far as adultery is concerned, they should kill them all for their own good (stoning is a cheap option), especially if they happen to be women.

Let's bring some good old fashioned Muslim morality into play.

Persecute people who do nothing more than follow their natural sexual urges. That would work.

So you approve of incest muso?

You think it's a good wholesome Aussie Value?

As I remember, you're the one where I got the quote from about leaving people to do whatever they like in their bedrooms.

Abu, incest creates victims. In our society we always put the chidlren first.

You consider a 39yo a child? Strange...

No I don't. Though technically everyone is someone's child. No, I was referring to the deformed children you risk getting if you root your sister or your mother. That is why we ban incest, not because we want to infringe people's right to root their parents.

Is incest elgal in Islam?

So if they agree to be "fixed up" so they can't have children, then you think it's ok?


Quote:

Is incest elgal in Islam?

I think you know enough about Islam to know the answer to that.

Perhaps you can put it in your wiki entry as another difference between Islam and Australian values. We prohibit incest, whilst you consider it to be perfectly fine, as long as you don't have kids.

Anyway as the girl said in the article, they have one perfectly healthy baby, and the other didn't die from an incest related disease...

I don't think support for incest is a typical Australian value. It is more of a taboo. It is only recently that incestual sex without consequence has become possible. It is a debate our society has not yet had.

Another reason for opposing it is that the relationship is more often than not an abuse of power, especially if it is intergenerational. The recent case in Austria comes to mind. I'm not sure if it would be possible to legalise it in a way that distinguished an abusive relationship from a 'consensual' one.

It's weird, incest is illegal here.
yet these two are not charged with anything.

Abu - the vast majority of aussies think incest is immoral.

I would also be concerned about any law that could put pressure on vulnerable people to get desexed.

vulnerable ???

how about, simple minded people who bonk relatives and have retarded kids ?

What say ye about a mother who has had a hysterectomy bonking her son?

And what say ye about the Adam and Eve story?

Abu, I'm confused. Correct me if I'm wrong, or please clarify.

You see nothing wrong with incest. Perhaps, it's cultural.

Or, are you just bringing this up to bash so-called "Australian values" (whatever that is) and Western ethics?

No, I think he was claiming that westerners support incest, or at least lack the robust morality to reject it without question like he does.

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 4^th, 2008 at 1:47am:

Why is everyone so negative about this? According to the Good 'ol Aussie values of Freedom and Secularism, shouldn't these two "consenting adults" be allowed to do whatever they like in their own bedroom? Isn't this what Aussie values are all about? This highlights the clear problem in Australian society. You begin to sanctify freedom and inidvidualism, and you legalise fornication... then adultery... then homosexuality... then incest.... what's next? where does it all end? It doesn't, it is a constant spiral downwards, what will it take for people to realise that it leads to the decay of society?

seconded

Genetic Sexual Attraction........... Not everything is black or white, right or wrong, good or bad, moral or immoral.

http://www.flatrock.org.nz/topics/relationships/reunions_set_off_sex_urges.htm

Quote:

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 4th, 2008 at 6:55pm: So if they agree to be "fixed up" so they can't have children, then you think it's ok? [quote]Is incest elgal in Islam? We prohibit incest,

Bullshit. I used to work with muslims and guess what- all were married to their cousins.

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 4^th, 2008 at 1:47am:

Why is everyone so negative about this? According to the Good 'ol Aussie values of Freedom and Secularism, shouldn't these two "consenting adults" be allowed to do whatever they like in their own bedroom? Isn't this what Aussie values are all about?

Maybe that is how some aussie muslims may understand it. If you dont understand Australian morals versus Australian values.........well come to think of it....... that is hardly surprising, because islam is the "one and only" correct way of living a in harmony with GOD isn't it??
Maybe you could drive a car loaded with explosives into a group of Australians to protest against incest.

Quote:

Abu, incest creates victims. In our society we always put the chidlren first.

-FD

Well that is a change of heart FD, I thought it was the "Parents' Rights" you were so vigorously defending recently?

The rights of children did not even get a look in, in that debate. ::)

Acid,


Quote:

Or, are you just bringing this up to bash so-called "Australian values" (whatever that is) and Western ethics?

Not really to bash Australian values. Just to highlight that if you really believe in hedonism then this is the next logical step after homosexuality being 'normalised'.

The same people who paved the way for adultery and fornication to be normalised, were not too happy about homosexuality, then those who campaigned for homosexuality to be normalised are now not too comfortable with incest. I'm just curious where it's all gonna end, what's next? On second thoughts I don't think i wanna know.

I know most Australians don't condone incest. But a few generations ago most Australians didn't condone homosexuality, and before that fornication etc. I'm sure you can see where it's all heading. Australia has adopted a moral framework which is decaying.

Interestingly the exact same arguments used to normalise homosexuality are now being applied to incest:

"Proponents of incest between consenting adults draw clear boundaries between the behavior of consenting adults and rape, child molestation, and abuse."

"You can't help who you fall in love with, it just happens. I fell in love with my sister and I'm not ashamed"

Phil,


Quote:

Bullshit. I used to work with muslims and guess what- all were married to their cousins.

Marriage between cousins is not incest.

And it's not against the law in most countries, I think Australia being one of them. It is however illegal in a few states of the USA, some of those real backwater states where you're not allowed to marry outside your own direct family.  ;D

merou,


Quote:

Maybe you could drive a car loaded with explosives into a group of Australians to protest against incest.

Must've taken you a while to come up with that argument. Is that why there's a 3 month gap between my post and your reply?

No Abu, I have a real life that does not revolve around the computer.

I believe you are just giving back what you, as a muslim, get given on this site. You are obviously intelligent enough to realise that, just as not all muslims believe it is their personal responsibility to kill the "infidels" nor do most Australians want to root their sister or dad.

I would, for once like to hear from a muslim who can answer criticism with explanation and not join in the constant bickering that seems to revolve around everyones point of view.
Then again why should you be the only one who does not join in the fun and games.

:-X  :-X   ;)

merou wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2008 at 9:13pm:

No Abu, I have a real life that does not revolve around the computer.

If your post is anything to go by, it would appear to be a very sad life.

Lestat wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2008 at 9:15pm:

merou wrote on Sep 23rd, 2008 at 9:13pm: No Abu, I have a real life that does not revolve around the computer. If your post is anything to go by, it would appear to be a very sad life.

Yeah.......okay ;D

merou,


Quote:

You are obviously intelligent enough to realise that, just as not all muslims believe it is their personal responsibility to kill the "infidels"

Actually this stereotype should more rightly go the other way, after all so many more innocent Muslims have been killed by militant infidels. In the first month of the Afghanistan war alone, more innocent Aghani civilians had been killed by militant Americans than Americans were killed in the WTC attacks. I doubt most Westerners really gave a damn though, just third world numbers, not real people with real lives and real families and real feelings like us

Are you intelligent enough to realise this? Or will you just brush it aside as Muslim propaganda?

Need to see pictures of babies with their heads blown off by US bombs? So you can match them up in the sympathy banks of your mind with the pictures of Americans leaping out of WTC windows?


Quote:

nor do most Australians want to root their sister or dad.

As I said, implying as such wasn't the intent of my post. I am well aware most Aussies find incest completely unacceptable. During my parents generation, most people felt the same way about homosexuality, and during their parents generation, most people felt the same about adultery. So my point was, during our kids generation, will incest become socially acceptable? As those taboos from previous generations are now acceptable, much to their horror.


Quote:

I would, for once like to hear from a muslim who can answer criticism with explanation and not join in the constant bickering that seems to revolve around everyones point of view.

Do you mean you really want me to answer the criticisms? Or you want me to give you nice little fluffy and cuddly explanation that's palatable to you? If it's the former, I can - feel free to express your criticisms/concerns about Islam in the Islamic forum, if it's the latter, no.

you are exactly right on all acounts abu.


in a few deades... now that 12 year olds are quite capable to pay adult prices on aeroplanes and eat and adults meal at sizzlers they are in fact adults and reserve the right to to do what they wish in their own bedrooms.

the greens putting forward the Free Choice Act where these 12 year olds who have for so long been refused equal rights and freedoms can finally have relationswith woh ever they wish.

the bill does not state that it supports 12 year olds haveing sex with older men/women just that the government has no right to make decisions for these people.

Quote:

in a few deades... now that 12 year olds are quite capable to pay adult prices on aeroplanes and eat and adults meal at sizzlers they are in fact adults and reserve the right to to do what they wish in their own bedrooms. the greens putting forward the Free Choice Act where these 12 year olds who have for so long been refused equal rights and freedoms can finally have relationswith woh ever they wish.

Interesting Pender.  This is the first time I've heard that the Greens are advocating that 12 year olds have freedom of choice which could lead to endangerment.

Is this a new policy or just political propaganda to slander the Greens - who are now becoming a threat to the 2 major parties?  

It all sounds very Gareth Evans-esque.

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2008 at 10:09pm:

merou, Quote: I would, for once like to hear from a muslim who can answer criticism with explanation and not join in the constant bickering that seems to revolve around everyones point of view. Do you mean you really want me to answer the criticisms? Or you want me to give you nice little fluffy and cuddly explanation that's palatable to you? If it's the former, I can - feel free to express your criticisms/concerns about Islam in the Islamic forum, if it's the latter, no.

I think my post came across in the wrong way, I think you have, on many muslim related topics, given the explanations that most people need to hear in order to gain a deeper understanding of muslim people.
Well done.
My sarcasm sometimes comes across in the wrong context :).

mantra wrote on Sep 24^th, 2008 at 1:36pm:

Quote: in a few deades... now that 12 year olds are quite capable to pay adult prices on aeroplanes and eat and adults meal at sizzlers they are in fact adults and reserve the right to to do what they wish in their own bedrooms. the greens putting forward the Free Choice Act where these 12 year olds who have for so long been refused equal rights and freedoms can finally have relationswith woh ever they wish. Interesting Pender.  This is the first time I've heard that the Greens are advocating that 12 year olds have freedom of choice which could lead to endangerment. Is this a new policy or just political propaganda to slander the Greens - who are now becoming a threat to the 2 major parties?

i know the greens are not atm. i was just imagining a period in the future and thought which party would have the capacity and will to push for a bill like that. With the greens history of lowering the age of consent, and their neo liberal views i predicted they would be the most likely candidate to do it if public oppion had swayed in that direction.

Well that is a change of heart FD, I thought it was the "Parents' Rights" you were so vigorously defending recently?

Not to the exclusion of children's rights. I doubt many children would choose to be deformed.

The rights of children did not even get a look in, in that debate.

Yes they did, and I was defending them. You wanted to take the rights away from both the children and the parents. You did not want children to have rights, you wanted to take over the role of parents for other people's children. There is no such thing as a right to never be exposed to religion or any other ideology you happen to disagree with. You can make an objective case that deformities are bad for children. Your case against religion exists only in your head. Pretending that freedom from 'dnagerous ideas' is a fundamental right is a hallmark of oppression. It is always an excuse for oppression. You lost that argument.

I know most Australians don't condone incest. But a few generations ago most Australians didn't condone homosexuality, and before that fornication etc.

I hate to burst your buble Abu, but there is a big difference between condoning an act and legalising it. Laws do not merely reflect what people think is right and wrong. They also reflect what people think the role of government should be and what the role of personal responsibility should be. Just because something is wrong does not mean the government has a place in our bedrooms. These issues have more than one dimension.

I have little problem with sex between consenting adults, even if they are related.

The defects due incest are often overstated.  The gene for the defect still has to be present, and problems mostly occur via multi-generational inbreeding due to a decreased genetic pool (more chance defects will manifest).