The muslims here have proven themselves uncapable to justly moderate a forum.

How many anti-muslim threads have they started?
How often have they suported/encouraged an antiislam thread?
have they unjustly deleted or banned someone from here?
Do people post islam threads on other forums due to biased moderation ?
Do they embrace freedom of speech ??

How many anti-muslim threads have they started?
None?

How often have they suported/encouraged an antiislam thread?
Never.

have they unjustly deleted or banned someone from here?
Yes

Do people post islam threads on other forums due to biased moderation ?
Yes

Do they embrace freedom of speech ??
Absolutely not.

Do you want to drive Abu off this board?  Malik's gone and Lestat nearly went.  Why can't you just accept people for their individual views?  Abu is moderating this board the way he sees fit and he has that right as a moderator.  

Your attitudes are very disappointing.  Can you imagine if a couple of posters ganged up on you and did the same?  You wouldn't be happy chappies.

Do unto others.......

Because it's you complaining mantra, I apologise.

Quote:

Do you want to drive Abu off this board?

No. But if he's here he will no doubt come across people with differing views on Islam. These views should not be censored.


Quote:

Malik's gone and Lestat nearly went.

Don't care that Malik went, I had the displeasure of "knowing" him from Muslimvilliage. He is an abusive bigot. This board does not need types like lestat, he embarrasses himself and does not improve the view people have of muslims and Islam. However, if he's going to stay, he too needs to know that Islam will be questioned here, it is not a muslim forum.


Quote:

Why can't you just accept people for their individual views?

We can. It's the muslims who can't.


Quote:

Abu is moderating this board the way he sees fit and he has that right as a moderator.

Yes, and we have a right to comment on what sort of job we think he's doing, and to also move or start topics outside the Islam forum so all views get a fair showing.


Quote:

Your attitudes are very disappointing.  Can you imagine if a couple of posters ganged up on you and did the same?  You wouldn't be happy chappies.

Have you spent any time at Muslimvillage? That's exactly what happens.


Quote:

Do unto others.......

You have directed that towards the wrong people.

Thanks Sprintcyclist.  I didn't expect an apology, but if there wasn't diversity on this forum - it would be so boring.  We would all be agreeing with each other.  It's good that there is some heated debate as long as it doesn't force people to leave.


Quote:

Have you spent any time at Muslimvillage? That's exactly what happens.

I actually did register there once, but just read the posts.  I found it extremely boring and controlled - that's why I think Ozpolitics is lucky to have Muslims here who are prepared to debate regardless of the heated accusations and questions they're bombarded with.


Quote:

Yes, and we have a right to comment on what sort of job we think he's doing, and to also move or start topics outside the Islam forum so all views get a fair showing

Of course you have that right Jordan - I didn't say otherwise, but I also have the right to object to your comments.   :)

sprint,


Quote:

How many anti-muslim threads have they started?

Why on earth would a Muslim start an anti-Muslim thread?

I gotta admit, guilty as charged on this one.


Quote:

have they unjustly deleted or banned someone from here?

Depends what your definition of unjust is. When the forum opened, we posted some guidelines/rules and asked that anyone posting here respect and adhere to those guidelines as a condition of their posting here. I personally don't feel I've ever deleted/moderated anyone outside of those guidelines. If however by unjust you mean moderating things that contravene the guidelines, then you (or whoever you refer to) shouldn't have posted them here to begin with, as your posting here indicates you accept the forum guidelines.

As for banning, I've never banned anyone. I have asked two users to suspend their posting voluntarily, until they removed avatars/signatures that contradicted the forum guidelines. Once they removed them, they both resumed posting here.


Quote:

Do people post islam threads on other forums due to biased moderation ?

Actually you post them here and in other forums, and then dare me to delete them, no doubt so you can continue to fuel your delusions of persecution.  ;D


Quote:

Do they embrace freedom of speech ??

Nope. Do they have to? Nope.

Basically anywhere you speak publically, there's constraints on that speech. There's no such thing as unfettered freedom of speech, and I think you know that sprint. However, the constraints on speech just happen to be a little more stringent in the Islam forum, and you knew that when you began posting here. If you didn't like it, you shouldn't have posted here, simple.

At the end of the day sprint, you're a guest in this forum. You are welcome, so long as you adhere to the guidelines. Just like when you're a guest in somebody's home, you have to accept the rules and regulations of his home. Or if you travel to a foreign country, you have to respect the laws of that country when entering, even if you don't personally subscribe to them.

I'm sorry if that's too difficult for you to fathom, but that's just the way it is. No amount of whining and complaining is going to change it.

So if you're happy to post here within the guidelines, you're welcome.  :)

Quote:

Just like when you're a guest in somebody's home, you have to accept the rules and regulations of his home.

Would you accept the rules of my home if you were my guest? Or would that be dependent on my rules not breaking any of your religious morals?

Quote:

Would you accept the rules of my home if you were my guest?

Yes, I would have to. There's not even any choice in it, if I contravened them, I'm sure I'd be asked to leave, that's just the way the world works, including internet forums.


Quote:

Or would that be dependent on my rules not breaking any of your religious morals?

If I became aware it would break the rules of my religion, then I'd simply leave before it became an issue. I certainly wouldn't sit there whining and claiming it's unjust.

So you wouldn't accept the rules of my house if they broke the rules of your religion. The only guidelines you adhere to are based on your religion. You do not accept any other guidelines. One rule for muslims, another for non-muslims.

Quote:

So you wouldn't accept the rules of my house if they broke the rules of your religion.

I don't see what's unclear about my statement: "If I became aware it would break the rules of my religion, then I'd simply leave before it became an issue.". You're not under any obligation whatsoever to accept the guidelines of this forum, however, just realise that if you don't, then you will be censored, or as a last resort removed. This is the same for anyone on ozpolitic. If I break freediver's overall rules for the forum, then I will probably forfeit my right to post here.


Quote:

The only guidelines you adhere to are based on your religion. You do not accept any other guidelines.

Islam is the overall deciding factor in my life, yes. But as already stated (are you reading my replies? Or just responding without reading them?) if I find I cannot reconcile my own personal convictions with the rules of the place I am attending, then I'd simply leave, and I offer you the same courtesy. If you don't like the guidelines, don't post here. Cut the whining and carrying on.


Quote:

One rule for muslims, another for non-muslims

The guidelines apply to all, and Muslim posters have been censored, as was imperial, who was supposedly posting 'in favour of Islam'.

If I come into your home, I have to adhere to your muslim guidelines. If you come into my home, where muslim guidelines are not adhered to, you leave. You expect me to bend to your rules, but would not consider bending for mine. That is why muslims and non-muslims will never live harmoniously. It's all take take take from muslims, and all give give give from non-muslims.

Quote:

If I come into your home, I have to adhere to your muslim guidelines. If you come into my home, where muslim guidelines are not adhered to, you leave.

You, likewise, would be free to leave. Are you saying that if I had a rule in my house, where all guests must denounce America as the 'Great Satan' after every sentence, and you found that to be against your beliefs, then you'd stay and adhere to the rule, just so you wouldn't appear to be 'all take and no give'?? You're just being ridiculous, really. Each person is free to attend the place he wants, and abstain from attending the place he doesn't want. Or don't you believe in this freedom?


Quote:

That is why muslims and non-muslims will never live harmoniously.

This is just nonsense. Please do explain how it prevents people from living harmoniously?

Jordan - in all honesty - what have Australian Muslims done that is so objectionable?  I know this is off topic - but have a look at this article - yet it received very little media attention.  Now if a Muslim community wanted to do this - they would be condemned and persecuted.

SMH - 1/10/08

A JEWISH group plans to overcome an ancient and restrictive religious commandment by creating a virtual wall around an entire North Shore suburb.

But its push for greater freedom has caused angst among some St Ives residents, who say it will block their views and create a "Jewish ghetto".

Under Jewish law it is forbidden to push or carry objects beyond the private home on the Sabbath and during holy festivals such as the Jewish new year, Rosh Hashanah, which began at sunset on Monday.

That means parents are often unable to take babies and young children to synagogues or parks because they cannot push them there in prams. Likewise, the elderly and disabled cannot be pushed in wheelchairs.

But the creation of a part-symbolic, part-physical zone known as an eruv allows Jews to carry out such activities within its boundaries.

"Really the ultimate aim is to basically help families, liberating people from their homes, such as young mums with kids in their prams," said David Guth, 32, of St Ives.

The married father of three children, including a five-month-old baby, is a member of Northern Eruv, a group seeking Ku-ring-gai Council's approval to create an eruv around St Ives.

An eruv already exists in the Waverley area, including along the promenade at Bondi Beach, but is so inconspicuous few people know it is there.

Most of the 20-kilometre boundary of the St Ives eruv would be demarcated using wires, cables and power poles owned by Optus, Foxtel and EnergyAustralia. But about 20 per cent would be formed by erecting 26 aluminium poles six metres high in 14 locations across St Ives. The poles would then be linked by a wire.

The development application drew 21 public submissions. Four, including one from the NSW Opposition Leader, Barry O'Farrell, were supportive.

Most objectors were concerned about the impact the poles would have on views but some went further, claiming an eruv would benefit one religious group at the expense of others.

The chief executive of the NSW Jewish Board of Deputies, Vic Alhadeff, dismissed the concerns, saying the plan would have little effect on the environment because it was "in the form of existing poles and wire".

Quote:

This is just nonsense. Please do explain how it prevents people from living harmoniously?

It's not nonsense, it's a fact and I already explained why.


Quote:

Now if a Muslim community wanted to do this - they would be condemned and persecuted.

And rightly they should be, so should these Jews. It's an absolutely ridiculous notion.

Quote:

Now if a Muslim community wanted to do this - they would be condemned and persecuted.

Not to mention most likely rejected by the council.

The difference is mantra that Jews are part of the "Judaeo-Christian" tradition, but Muslims apparently are not, we are something else. Even though Islam has always recognised Judaism and Christianity as being part of the "Abrahamic" tradition Jews and especially Christians reject this. Nevermind that Judaism's practises are much stranger to Christianity than Islam's are...

So jordan will give a token disapproval for this, but as we can see, he certainly doesn't spend all day trawling Google for articles like this to post against Judaism, only Islam gets jodran's special attention in that respect.

Don't assume you know me apu. And don't forget, I am not a fan of any religion. If there was a Jewish forum I would be just as critical of ridiculous aspects of Jewish religion, as I am with Islam. Islam doesn't get any "special" attention, but it is worth giving it the attention it gets, like it or not. Play the victim again and again, if that's how you need to justify the criticism Islam receives, but it won't prevent the need for Islam to be questioned, and it won't prevent me from being critical of it.