I got this from another forum I use and thought it was funny, its so true too.

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."


3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

Great post Queer.  Does this mean that self professed Christians, Jews, Muslims etc. are often hypocrites?   :)

mantra wrote on Oct 6^th, 2008 at 8:22am:

Great post Queer.  Does this mean that self professed Christians, Jews, Muslims etc. are often hypocrites?   :)

ALL religious people are hypocrites in some way or another. I tolerate religious people but I truly wish they occupied their brain with something other than fantasy land stories, they are wasting their potential in my opinion.

Hi queer. Interesting tag line. If socialism is the answer, what is the question? You can start a new thread if you don't want to sidetrack this one.

freediver wrote on Oct 6^th, 2008 at 9:27am:

Hi queer. Interesting tag line. If socialism is the answer, what is the question? You can start a new thread if you don't want to sidetrack this one.

I don't really want to get into it here but if you want to know more about socialism visit:
http://www.marxist.com/
http://www.marxists.org/
http://www.revleft.com/vb/

for more information about it.

But basically socialism is the answer because capitalism is nothing but exploitation of the proletariat, it serves the minority (the bourgeois) while the majority (the proletariat) make the minority rich, socialism serves the majority, the working class.

Wow, so you really are a communist.

I wanted to know what the question is, not what the answer is. It seems like it's an answer in need of a question.

freediver wrote on Oct 6^th, 2008 at 10:08am:

Wow, so you really are a communist. I wanted to know what the question is, not what the answer is. It seems like it's an answer in need of a question.

The question is "does capitalism really serve the majority?" the answer to that is no, and if the answer is no then what does? the answer to that is socialism!
Socialism is the next logical step after capitalism, as capitalism is not going to last forever (this knowledge can be attained via dialectics) then its only logical that socialism is the next step.

OK I started a new thread as I think this might go on for a bit. Can you explain how dialectics works in this other thread please?

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1223252366

queer wrote on Oct 6^th, 2008 at 8:15am:

I got this from another forum I use and thought it was funny, its so true too. 10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours. 9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt. 8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God. 7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees! 6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky. 5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old. 4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving." 3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity. 2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God. 1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

I'm a Christian.

10. My girlfiend is an atheist, denies my god every day somehow i survive :P

9. Pope Benedict on evolution:
According to the widely accepted scientific account, the universe erupted 15 billion years ago in an explosion called the 'Big Bang' and has been expanding and cooling ever since. Later there gradually emerged the conditions necessary for the formation of atoms, still later the condensation of galaxies and stars, and about 10 billion years later the formation of planets. In our own solar system and on earth (formed about 4.5 billion years ago), the conditions have been favorable to the emergence of life. While there is little consensus among scientists about how the origin of this first microscopic life is to be explained, there is general agreement among them that the first organism dwelt on this planet about 3.5 - 4 billion years ago. Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on earth are genetically related, it is virtually certain that all living organisms have descended from this first organism. Converging evidence from many studies in the physical and biological sciences furnishes mounting support for some theory of evolution to account for the development and diversification of life on earth, while controversy continues over the pace and mechanisms of evolution. - he does not contradict it :)

8. triune god is still one god. and i have never laughed at a polytheist.

i have to go but i will finish later.

Quote:

8. triune god is still one god. and i have never laughed at a polytheist.

Yeh like all the thousands of Hindu deities are all manifestations of the one deity as well.

Trinitarianism is polytheism, plain and simple.

Too bad the Trinitarians annihilated and eradicated all the Arians.

Quote:

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

This point reminded me of the following quote-

"We are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Robert

To me, being a chrisitan does not mean those things.

It means, there is a reason for "all this".
We are not just a fluke.

Just for fun, I'll go through your 10.

10/ No I don't.

9/ No I don't. I disagree. There are a few ways of looking at genesis.

8/ No I don't. I actively encourage and support other beliefs to post here.

7/ allah did nothing in the koran. allah according to muslims is the biblical God anyway.
   
6/ a) no I don't
6 b) yes I do.

5/ No I dont. Is this one essentially a copy of #9 ?

4/ Absolutely not. The way I read it, we will be judged the most testingly.

3/ Course not. Tongues is the last of the gifts. It impresses me not at all. Did you know, many scientists are christians ??

2/  If one prayer works, it is proof. people often pray for the wrong stuff anyway.

1/ I like athiests, prefer them to agnostics. few christians have read their own bible.
One of the great failings of churches.

queer wrote on Oct 6^th, 2008 at 10:05am:

[quote] But basically socialism is the answer because capitalism is nothing but exploitation of the proletariat, it serves the minority (the bourgeois) while the majority (the proletariat) make the minority rich, socialism serves the majority, the working class.

Gawd, what an old-fashioned fudddy-duddy you are.

Quote:

"We are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Robert

Now there's a quotable quote.


The definition of a Pagan is:

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Pagan

Soren wrote on Oct 6^th, 2008 at 9:24pm:

queer wrote on Oct 6th, 2008 at 10:05am: [quote] But basically socialism is the answer because capitalism is nothing but exploitation of the proletariat, it serves the minority (the bourgeois) while the majority (the proletariat) make the minority rich, socialism serves the majority, the working class. Gawd, what an old-fashioned fudddy-duddy you are.

Queer has been reading straight from his Sociology text again..

Marx and all those dudes.

queer wrote on Oct 6^th, 2008 at 10:15am:

freediver wrote on Oct 6th, 2008 at 10:08am: Wow, so you really are a communist. I wanted to know what the question is, not what the answer is. It seems like it's an answer in need of a question. The question is "does capitalism really serve the majority?" the answer to that is no, and if the answer is no then what does? the answer to that is socialism! Socialism is the next logical step after capitalism, as capitalism is not going to last forever (this knowledge can be attained via dialectics) then its only logical that socialism is the next step.

You can't buy Marxism cream, but like acne, it generally disappears by the end of puberty  ;D


ROFL - Gaycupid.com?  What kind of forum are you trying to run here FD? Your advertising needs attention.

queer wrote on Oct 6^th, 2008 at 8:30am:

mantra wrote on Oct 6th, 2008 at 8:22am: Great post Queer.  Does this mean that self professed Christians, Jews, Muslims etc. are often hypocrites?   :) ALL religious people are hypocrites in some way or another. I tolerate religious people but I truly wish they occupied their brain with something other than fantasy land stories, they are wasting their potential in my opinion.

There is nothing wrong with occupying your brain with something that motivates.  Why should it concern you with somebody else's personal religion, and why does it matter so much that you have to preach your own religion on a board such as this?

I don't have a religion, I'm agnostic/semi materialist so I don't adhere to any religion. I don't really know if a "god" exists, I've never seen evidence of one, I don't know if I believe one exists. Its always possible I suppose but in my opinion it is highly unlikely as I've never seen anything that would lead me to believe a god exists. So its not that I believe that Christianity, to be specific, is wrong, to me all religion is wrong as it seems like you all are worshiping an imaginary creation.

Considering I don't really believe that there even is a "god", religion which promotes a very specific god seems mighty extreme to me.
I do however keep an open mind to the concept of "god", if god ever presents himself/herself to me I will change my opinion on him/her.*


*saying god is male is sexist, theres no evidence to say in the bible, if one exists, that god is any sex.

fair enough point of view queer.

Quote:

saying god is male is sexist, theres no evidence to say in the bible, if one exists, that god is any sex.

The Bible was originally written in Hebrew, since Hebrew is a Semitic language, all nouns must have a gender for grammatical purposes. A table, a car, the sun and the moon all have gender in Semitic languages, doesn't mean they're actually male/female entities, it's just a convention of Semitic languages that they are rendered with a gender.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 7^th, 2008 at 9:17am:

fair enough point of view queer.

This would be your first humane post towards me, congratulations!

thanks queer.  :)

abu - thought the bible was originally in hebrew, aramaic AND ancient grek ?? Different parts in different languages.

queer wrote on Oct 7^th, 2008 at 9:10am:

I don't have a religion, I'm agnostic/semi materialist so I don't adhere to any religion....... . So its not that I believe that Christianity, to be specific, is wrong, to me all religion is wrong as it seems like you all are worshiping an imaginary creation. Considering I don't really believe that there even is a "god", religion which promotes a very specific god seems mighty extreme to me. I do however keep an open mind to the concept of "god", if god ever presents himself/herself to me I will change my opinion on him/her.* *saying god is male is sexist, theres no evidence to say in the bible, if one exists, that god is any sex.

Quote:

ALL religious people are hypocrites in some way or another. I tolerate religious people but I truly wish they occupied their brain with something other than fantasy land stories, they are wasting their potential in my opinion.

I have similar beliefs, but I stop short of calling religious people hypocritical.

We all live about 95% in the hypothetical. Our brain takes shortcuts all the time based on past experiences and prejudices.

If belief in God is something that helps them get through life, where's the harm in it?

You say that you're agnostic, which is an open point of view - then you say that you "tolerate religious people but  truly wish they occupied their brain with something other than fantasy land stories". To me that's anything but an agnostic position, and an assertion that you alone have the key to life the universe and that all 'religious people' are living in a fantasy land.  

Don't worry. I used to see things like that myself.

People use religion to justify any action they see fit to take part in, thats why I have a problem with it. Religion, if like it is, likely that there is no god, is doing harm because people are following fantasy and not reality.
I'm agnostic because I like to keep an open mind but I'm semi materialist  at the same time and I'm highly skeptical of a so called god. One moment I criticize religion the next I give it some credit so I'm truly torn between the two views because I cant decide if there is or isn't a god. I have been like this for years and honestly I wish I would just decide once and for all either way, but no, I have to sit on the fence of indecision.

Quote:

abu - thought the bible was originally in hebrew, aramaic AND ancient grek ?? Different parts in different languages.

True, but the original parts of the Bible, which existed for many centuries were written in Hebrew. So the concept of God having a gender was formed from this part, rather than the bits you tacked on the end later.

Also note that Aramaic is also a Semitic language, and that Koine Greek (The dialect of the New Testament) also uses gender grammatically for most things, even those that are not alive.

queer - drats, again we agree on some topics !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yes, that some people use a belief for some of their actions and act like robots is unspiritual.
grown-ups take responsibility for their own actions.


abu - quite right. thanks for that.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 7^th, 2008 at 12:08pm:

queer - drats, again we agree on some topics !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thats likely because I'm a person too, not some freaked out sexual deviant.

For a very few, it means to take the example of the life of christ, and try to use that to live an exemplary existence, albeit in a false belief in a great afterlife party invite.

Unfortunately for the vast majority,it means to be annoying prigs, whose mission in life is to see their ridiculous moral code applied across the whole society, not too disimiliar to another religion which is a right royal pain in the butt.

Heard a guy on the radio yesterday, a spokesman for the christian lobby, speaking about families, he was a typical PR guy, could not lie straight in bed, totally fake, but obviously a true believer.

No religion should have 'Lobby" groups, they should mind their own business.

I treat religion like venomous snakes, I would prefer to neuther see or hear them, and if I do, I would like them to be going the opposite way to me.

queer wrote on Oct 6^th, 2008 at 8:15am:

I got this from another forum I use and thought it was funny, its so true too. 10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours. 9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt. 8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God. 7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees! 6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky. 5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old. 4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving." 3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity. 2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God. 1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

6. God didnt have sex with mary, god is the baby.

5. see answer to age of earth above (number 9).

4. the catholic church in its thelogy does not believe you have to be catholic or even christian to go to heaven, john paul said this himself. Christianity offers a guide to a closer relationship with god on earth, it is not a free pass into heaven.

3. toungues, healings, raised people form the dead are all well documented, i could turn this around to you and say "despite all the documentation and witnesses to these miracles you refuse to believe them because of yoru own predispositions."

2. i dont think you understand the concept of prayer, god is like a parent he will  only give us what we genuinly need, not what we constantly ask for, however if we keep asking, like any parent it can have an affect. many christians would say that many of their prayers are answered.

1. Christianity by definition is not measured by knowledge but by faith and love in God and christ, i dont really see how your point is relevent. Oh and for the record I am yet to meet a person of my age with as much knowledge of the bible or church history.




oh and the  old testament was written in herbew as far as i know, perhaps greek in the latter part. the new testament greek and perhaps aramaic i am not sure.

from an ignorant non religious person..

why were they... whoever they were, always rewriting the Bible..old to new testament etc.



I dont get this.

Why wasnt the original good enough ?

tampering with a sacred book is surely the ultimate sin.

The Catholics tampered with the 10 Commandments.

the catholic church in its thelogy does not believe you have to be catholic or even christian to go to heaven, john paul said this himself

Doesn't Jesus say in the Bible that he is the only way to God?

mozzaok - using the definition of "religion" I have, I quite agree with you.

pender - I'ld pretty much agree with all of that.

oceans - good questions.
The old test was before Jesus was born. it is really for Jews.
The New test was after Jesus was born, it is for christians.

There are different versions of the same story.
it has been rewritten to cater to modern language etc.
ie, they took out all the "thee's" and Thou's"  of olde worlde language.
It's the same story


freediver - yes, Jesus did say that.
Does not mean you have to be a "christian."
What about ALL the "good" athiests/muslims/hindus ?

What about the lost tribes in the jungle who have never had contact with the outside world?

Do you have a response at all to my query Sprint...or is ignorance bliss?

You're in a jungle of apathy, what do the starving people of the world want?

sorry amadd , was it this question ?

"I've asked this question before: Is it OK if I live the next 30 years in sin and then repent to God to book myself a place in heaven? Or could I limit myself to 3 sins a day as long as I go to confession to seek forgiveness for them?"

Good query.
If that person happily sins for 30 years, thinking they can "do a deathbed" confession, and get off with it all. I think that is a bit off. Do you?
If that person does whatever they want, then after 30 years realises something new, and repents, that is different.

Course, this raises many other questions. That I have NO idea on !!!


easel - exactly. entirely unjust to judge the lost tribes on a basis they are "not christians."
They will be judged by what they have been given. To those that have been given little, little is expected.
To those thay have been given much, much is expected.

"That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows.
But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows.
From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.
Luke 12:47,48

Quote:

Good query. If that person happily sins for 30 years, thinking they can "do a deathbed" confession, and get off with it all. I think that is a bit off. Do you? If that person does whatever they want, then after 30 years realises something new, and repents, that is different.

That wasn't the qusestion Sprint.
You need to do some rerearch into whatt I am asking.
You need to answer the question of Zeitgeist. I know it's hard for you, but you must give it a try.
It's a big question of reliigion vs. spirituality (which I've already brought up), and you seem very coy in answering the question.

using my definition of religion vs spirituality, there is NO problem in choosing it at all.

The word religion occurs about 6 times in my bible, every time with bad connotations.
The word spiritual occures many hundreds.

"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free.
Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery."
Galatians 5:1

freediver wrote on Oct 9^th, 2008 at 7:39pm:

the catholic church in its thelogy does not believe you have to be catholic or even christian to go to heaven, john paul said this himself Doesn't Jesus say in the Bible that he is the only way to God?

not exactly.

John 14:6 (New International Version)

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

what this actually means is that there would be no way to the father if it were not for the way paved by jesus. we can be saved because he died for us.

Most Christains (including the catholic church) believe that jews have and will continue to go to heaven under the old covenant, muslims, hindues etc may also go to heaven as we do not know how god will judge them.

the problem is the radical bible groups which take selective quotes from the bible and build theology from there while disregarding other sections.