Many think that Islam actually is not a religion because it is so too pragmatic, secular and surreal. For example Buddhism is not a religion because can not and does not answer the question: “ Is there anything beyond happiness”. The answers that Islam gives on the same question are so primitive that looks like children’s game.
Any opinions are welcome.

I think it differs most from what we typically think of as a religion in that it doubles as a system of law and government.

It's the most extreme religion I know of.
VERY legalistically controlling, it offers very few freedoms at all.

ISLAM is not a religion, in the sense that Westerners understand the word 'religion'.

ISLAM is a ruthless, 'mono-cultural' political system.





Is Islam a Religion?

ASK YOURSELF...

Why is it that the Lovers Of Sharia [LOS] will embrace multiculturalism,
.....in non-ISLAMIC countries?

BUT, WHY IS IT..... that in ISLAMIC countries, like, Pakistan, Egypt, Jordan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc, LOS always seem to *expunge* all the 'multicultural rights' of all other cultural groups???

And don't let the LOS mislead you,
....this *oppression* of non-LOS, by LOS [in *their own* jurisdictions], is all *sanctioned by Sharia* [their laws], and ISLAMIC religious texts.

LOS are taught by their own 'religion', that all non-LOS people, are inferior to LOS.

And they are taught that it is against Allah's law, and a great sin against LOS, for non-LOS people to govern, and make LOS subject to secular laws.



And i am always amazed that so few Aussies question this reality [the political realities within Sharia jurisdictions].

And that so few Aussies are prepared to challenge the absolute duplicity, of those LOS who reside in Australia, in *misrepresenting* ISLAM, as a [peaceful] culture.



++++


JAHILIYYA  [un-ISLAMIC lifestyle]

ISLAM in its 'religious' doctrines, demands intolerance of 'unbelief', and the Jahiliyya lifestyle.



FROM AN ISLAMIC SITE,

"THE RIGHT TO JUDGE"
"It is not the function of Islam to compromise with the concepts of Jahiliyya
which are current in the world
or to co-exist in the same land together with a jahili system........"
by SAYYID QUTB
http://www.islamworld.net/justice.html


"....Jahiliyya is a result of the lack of Sharia law, without which Islam cannot exist;"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahiliyya#Jahiliyya_in_contemporary_society

Did you get that?

What it means, is that ISLAM has determined, that ISLAM cannot [effectively] exist without muslims having, and imposing the authority of Sharia law - upon all [both muslims, and non-muslims].

All non-muslims must be brought under the authority of muslims, and Sharia.

This is ISLAMIC doctrine.

We've had "Is atheism a religion?", and "Is Islam a religion?". Maybe the next thread we need to start with a rhetorical question should be "Is the Pope Catholic?"

I'm sure you'll get somebody arguing that he isn't.  

ISLAM and its laws, are all about the direction of secular, raw *political* power.


On any reasonable appraisal of what ISLAM is, its doctrines, ISLAM is clearly a fascist political philosophy,
....and not a religion.


ISLAM IS NOT ABOUT THE PASSIVE *WORSHIP*, OF A SUPREME BEING.

The second biggest religion in the world is not a religion, therefore 1=0.

Since 1=0, adding 1 to each side of the equation, we get:

2=1

The set of people comprising the Pope and myself make up 2, but since 2=1, that means that .......

I am the Pope.   :D

muso wrote on Nov 4^th, 2008 at 1:09pm:

The second biggest religion in the world is not a religion, therefore 1=0. Since 1=0, adding 1 to each side of the equation, we get: 2=1 The set of people comprising the Pope and myself make up 2, but since 2=1, that means that ....... I am the Pope.   :D

muso,


As i observed in another thread....

BLACK IS WHITE, AND WHITE IS BLACK.

UP IS DOWN, AND DOWN IS UP.


All hail pope muso.

:)

muso wrote on Nov 4^th, 2008 at 12:59pm:

We've had "Is atheism a religion?", and "Is Islam a religion?". Maybe the next thread we need to start with a rhetorical question should be "Is the Pope Catholic?" I'm sure you'll get somebody arguing that he isn't.

Pope is atheist but doesn't admit that.

Since Muso fessed to be a Pope it would be fair to ask him ...does he wax his crotch or shaves it?

muso wrote on Nov 4^th, 2008 at 12:59pm:

We've had "Is atheism a religion?", and "Is Islam a religion?". Maybe the next thread we need to start with a rhetorical question should be "Is the Pope Catholic?" I'm sure you'll get somebody arguing that he isn't.

For sure he is a Catholic but not a Christian.

Yadda wrote on Nov 4^th, 2008 at 1:03pm:

......ISLAM is clearly a fascist political philosophy,

Pursuing this thought a little further....


Fascism

In an article in the 1932 Encyclopedia Italiana, written by Giovanni Gentile and attributed to Benito Mussolini, Fascism is described as a system, founded by Benito Mussolini on March 23, 1919, in which
"The State not only is the authority which governs and molds individual wills with laws and values of spiritual life, but it is also the power which makes its will prevail abroad.... For the Fascist, everything is within the State and . . . neither individuals nor groups are outside the State.... For Fascism, the State is an absolute, before which individuals or groups are only relative...." This is the basic principle of Fascism. In Fascism, it's all about "the state."
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/comments/53281


N.B. the words....

"......For the Fascist, everything is within the State."


For the muslim, everything is within ISLAM.




This very concise description of Fascism, used above, was once at wiki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_fascism

It has gone from wiki, been changed.

athos wrote on Nov 4^th, 2008 at 1:40pm:

muso wrote on Nov 4th, 2008 at 12:59pm: We've had "Is atheism a religion?", and "Is Islam a religion?". Maybe the next thread we need to start with a rhetorical question should be "Is the Pope Catholic?" I'm sure you'll get somebody arguing that he isn't.   For sure he is a Catholic but not a Christian.

But let's keep on topic - Is Christianity a religion?

By this definition: "a set of beliefs and practices organized around supernatural and moral claims, and codified as prayer, ritual, and religious law"

Well - Christianity is a diverse set of practices and beliefs, not all of which are consistent, and each denomination think every other denomination is going to hell.

Even Synod Lutherans think that Lutherans are going to hell.

Christianity is rather a diverse collection of religions.

Right, so in summary,  Islam is not a religion, Christianity is not a religion, Atheism is a religion, and I'm the Pope.  ;D

tallowood wrote on Nov 4^th, 2008 at 1:25pm:

[quote author=muso link=1225764745/0#4 date=1225767598]We've had "Is atheism a religion?", and "Is Islam a religion?". Maybe the next thread we need to start with a rhetorical question should be "Is the Pope Catholic?" I'm sure you'll get somebody arguing that he isn't.

Ok lets summarise.

If we apply logical Aristotles (favourite Islamic philosopher) logichal method of thinking called syllogism ( two statements one conclusion ) then we have:

Statement 1:
Islam is about Jihad.

Statement 2:
Jihad is about concurring and eliminating others (Infidels) by all means.

Conclusion:
Islam is about coquering and eliminating others (Infidels) by all means.

Howe they achieve that?
In earlier days when they were powerful (Othman empire) by wars and ethnic cleansing.
Today by using women as birth factories (sex slaves) and producing as many as possible children, potential martyrs (Average Muslim family in Australia has 14 children ).
For example they make 30 children and sacrifice 27 of them as martyrs (suicidal bombers ).
Is it religion and what does it have to do with religion and spirituality???

athos wrote on Nov 4^th, 2008 at 2:00pm:

tallowood wrote on Nov 4th, 2008 at 1:25pm: atheism is a religion Howe they achieve that?

They vote Obama in.

athos wrote on Nov 4^th, 2008 at 2:00pm:

Is [ISLAM a] religion and what does [ISLAM] have to do with religion and spirituality???

In my opinion, not a lot.

ISLAM is secular, it seeks secular powers [in this world], and influence [in this world].




God knows what he is doing.

Yadda doesn't [.......know what God is doing].

::)


But i trust God.

Go Pope Muso !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Course islam is a religion.
it is also a political structure, and a legal system.

It is a religion, whether you like it or not is up to you

Hang on and I'll check.
Delusional, check
Dogmatic, check
Lots and lots of dumb rules, check
Lots of people use it as an excuse for bad behaviour, check

Yes, It definitely is a religion.

Yes, Islam is a religion.  That is not say there are not other aspects to it all though.

I was going to respond on the feedback thread - but it's been closed by the look of it.

Telling the "truth" is sometimes very difficult, particularly if the subject is a complex one.  The point is that if a person obfuscates or detracts from the subject - it's usually because they are truthful and don't want to lie so they divert the subject.

There may be certain reasons why Abu can't specifically answer some questions and we're all guilty of this - but it doesn't warrant calling a person a liar.

Although Abu found it difficult - he told the truth on that silly "hygiene" thread at the very end.

Maybe the truth is there, but it is just hard to understand unless you're a Muslim.  Maybe a Muslim is not allowed to be critical of his/her faith and always has to look for the positives.

Mantra,


Quote:

he told the truth on that silly "hygiene" thread at the very end.

I told the same thing everytime I spoke about it. There was no '180' performed anywhere in my responses.

freediver,


Quote:

I think it differs most from what we typically think of as a religion in that it doubles as a system of law and government.

Actually so have most other religions throughout history, it's only in recent times this has changed and they've been relegated to a place as just a 'spiritual system' within a secular framework. Are you that ignorant of history freediver?

Yadda,


Quote:

ISLAM is not a religion, in the sense that Westerners understand the word 'religion'.

The word 'religion' actually derives from the Latin word meaning 'to bind', so the idea that all o a sudden Islam is not a religion, would mean completely de-constructing the term and perhaps replacing it with another.


Quote:

ISLAM and its laws, are all about the direction of secular, raw *political* power.

Although there's no doubting Islam has a political system contained within it, it's most certainly not secular. Do you know what secular means? I suspect you do not. Perhaps what you meant was 'temporal power' rather than secular power.

-----

Now on the topic itself, I would have to agree, Islam is not [just] a religion, it is much more. If we consider religion merely to be a set of spiritual ideas and adherence to an organisation that espouses such spiritualism, then Islam is much greater than that. Islam is a complete system of living, it offers answers and solutions to all of life's problems, not just the metaphysical ones,, but I would contend that all down through history, all religions were much the same in that sense. Judaism certainly was, Hinduism was (and largely still is) and even Christianity, although not on paper, in practise was for most of it's 2000 year history also. Likewise for Shinto in Japan and Confucianism in China, both of which were not just spiritual systems but complete state systems that governed every aspect of people's lives.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 4^th, 2008 at 2:25pm:

......Course islam is a religion. it is also a political structure, and a legal system. It is a religion, whether you like it or not is up to you

Sprint,

I don't like it.
>:(

It, ISLAM, disgusts me.

ISLAM is, deception, lies, and violence.

POLITICS.

If it walks like a duck, and if it quacks like a duck,
....then ISLAM is,
....a POLITICAL system.


Dictionary,
politics = = the activities associated with the governance of a country or area.






ISLAM is, ...a system of laws.

ISLAM has laws about every aspect of life, for a muslim [a Lover Of Sharia].

Break some of those laws and ISLAM gives muslims the 'sanction', to kill the 'transgressor'.


Killing 'unbelievers' [transgressors], who become *enemies* of ISLAM', is a tenet of 'faith' for ISLAM.

The murder of those who demonstrate 'unbelief' is sanctioned by ISLAM.


From ISLAMIC law texts....

Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."....
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/law/fiqhussunnah/fus3_50.html#3.110

From Hadith.....

"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.052.260



These ISLAMIC laws, are all about the direction of raw *political* power.
....THEY ARE NOT ABOUT THE PASSIVE *WORSHIP*, OF A SUPREME BEING.


ISLAM is about the exercising of political power.

ISLAM is about politics.

ISLAM's creed, the reason for being, of every devout muslim, is to work to secure worldly power, to secure secular power.



Whereas, religion is about spiritual self development, and the worship, of a God.


+++++


Dictionary,
religion = = the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
...a particular system of faith and worship.



+++++

Dictionary,
secular = = not religious, sacred, or spiritual.




Romans 3:14
Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15  Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16  Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17  And the way of peace have they not known:
18  There is no fear of God before their eyes.



Psalms 5:5
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
6  Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing [deceit]: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Actually so have most other religions throughout history, it's only in recent times this has changed and they've been relegated to a place as just a 'spiritual system' within a secular framework. Are you that ignorant of history freediver?

No. But history and religion are not the same thing. They only doubled as systems of government because they filled a vacuum. There is still a fundamental difference. That is why Islam is a barrier to democracy in a way that no other religion is.

Islam is a complete system of living, it offers answers and solutions to all of life's problems, not just the metaphysical ones

Stoning people to death is the problem, not the solution.

Quote:

Islam is a complete system of living, it offers answers and solutions to all of life's problems, not just the metaphysical ones

Genesis 1:29
Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you;


There that sounds like a solution to a major life problem. This also explains why the world is overpopulated.  If you had only read your Bible and obeyed, none of this would have ever happened:

Belladonna and Hemlock are herbs bearing seed. Oleander is a tree that produces a fruit that bears seed. There are plenty of others like that.

Go forth and masticate!  ;D

ulmo tree is growing diesel-producing fungus.

Abu


Quote:

he told the truth on that silly "hygiene" thread at the very end. I told the same thing everytime I spoke about it. There was no '180' performed anywhere in my responses

I meant this bit Abu and I wasn't having a go at you.  I have only noticed you avoid some little thing occasionally, but have never accused you of lying because I think you do answer to the best of your ability and as honestly as possible.  


Quote:

But as Gaybriel said, even if it did have some sexual aspect to it, what's wrong with that? Why shouldn't religion mention things that are good regarding sexual activity? Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) advised Muslims to enjoy sexual activities (within the correct bounds) and said it's a rewardable act. Islam covers all aspects of life, so it's no surprise that it covers hygiene and sexual activity, after all these are areas in which so many people are deficient, and need some guidance.

Ok sorry mantra, misunderstanding on my part.

Islam is just an EVIL CULT started by a murderous war mongering dictator which happened to survive. (no doubt because of the inferior minds of the middle eastern untermensch).

.
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x142/AUSNAT_PHOTOS/system.jpg
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1225764745/27#27


If you say so.

Just look at this world today.

Look at where man's 'wisdom' & lies have brought us to.






God is wise.

And men are dumb and vain.



Matthew 18:3
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.


Luke 18:17
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.


1 Corinthians 2:9
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10  But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11  For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13  Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.



Proverbs 9:10
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

DILLIGAF wrote on Nov 5^th, 2008 at 6:40pm:

Islam is just an EVIL CULT started by a murderous war mongering dictator which happened to survive. (no doubt because of the inferior minds of the middle eastern untermensch).

excuse me but isn't this rather racist? Also when you stopped frothing at the mouth answer me this, why did he kill almost no one when he captured mecca(they surrendered)? Doesn't sound like a "murderous war mongering dictator" to me. Or why he let prisoners of war go if they agreed to teach 10 muslims how to read or write?

as for the opening question, yes Islam is a religion because it makes the claim that it is based on revelation and the prophethood of a man and following those teaching is the duty of all god conscious people.

Phillip wrote on Nov 13^th, 2008 at 9:20pm:

DILLIGAF wrote on Nov 5th, 2008 at 6:40pm: Islam is just an EVIL CULT started by a murderous war mongering dictator which happened to survive. (no doubt because of the inferior minds of the middle eastern untermensch). excuse me but isn't this rather racist?

Take it up with Donald Trump.
DT - all yours.


:D

Quote:

excuse me but isn't this rather racist?

Yes it is.


Quote:

Doesn't sound like a "murderous war mongering dictator" to me.

Apparently Hitler liked kittens. Does that mean he wasn't a murderous war mongering dictator?

freediver wrote on Nov 13^th, 2008 at 9:43pm:

Quote: excuse me but isn't this rather racist? Yes it is. [quote]Doesn't sound like a "murderous war mongering dictator" to me.

Apparently Hitler liked kittens. Does that mean he wasn't a murderous war mongering dictator?[/quote]
false analogy, out of curiosity how old are you.

No it is not a false analogy. Leaders are not judged by the occasional nice things they do, but by how low they stoop. Hitler is not judged by the Jews he didn't gas, but by the ones he did gas. Why should Muhammed be treated any different? Sparing people's lives some of the time doesn't make up for taking them at other times.

Actually Islam is not a race so NO IT ISN'T RACIST....

The racist comment was about Arabs (middle easterners) rather than Islam.

ah...

freediver wrote on Nov 14^th, 2008 at 10:59am:

No it is not a false analogy. Leaders are not judged by the occasional nice things they do, but by how low they stoop. Hitler is not judged by the Jews he didn't gas, but by the ones he did gas. Why should Muhammed be treated any different? Sparing people's lives some of the time doesn't make up for taking them at other times.

Not really, one is comparing the time when the prophet {pbuh} could of easily killed all the people who mocked, ridiculed, threw all sorts of things at him, tried to kill him, killed his followers but chose to forgive them and on the other hand someone who started to kill inocent civilians from the time he got in power (almost) until he killed himself.

freediver wrote on Nov 14^th, 2008 at 6:41pm:

The racist comment was about Arabs (middle easterners) rather than Islam.

Bingo, but its rather ironic because in the islamic state during prophet's {pbuh} time there were Africans as well as Persians.

Phillip wrote on Nov 15^th, 2008 at 6:53pm:

{pbuh}

have some antacid, mate.