What does Charles do there at this stressful time?

Will Obama, if he wins, recommend clemency to make himself popular with Muslim world?

Vote at will

5. A bribe

To give them more time to make more geneticaly modified martyrs (suicidal bombers ).
Did you see their wifes have visited thrm every day.

New identity cards and plastic surgeons.

The authorities secretely agree with what their Muslim brothers did and feel guilty about executing them? They simply don't want to kill fellow Muslims for killing non-Muslims?  :)

Should a muslim kill a muslim who killed a muslim for killing non-muslims ??

I've voted for "waiting for USA election".

I voted for the Melbourne Cup.
Thought as a mark of regret to the Aussies they might coincide it with the finish of the Cup.
That way all of Aussie would be cheering at that moment.

;) ;)

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 4^th, 2008 at 7:36pm:

I voted for the Melbourne Cup. Thought as a mark of regret to the Aussies they might coincide it with the finish of the Cup. That way all of Aussie would be cheering at that moment. ;) ;)

I think authorities over there are more concerned about not to attract too much of the unhealthy attention considering the reality of sectarian divisions.
Imagine a situation in Australia in late 1940s when death penalty was still on and if Australian courts would have to sentence an Australian for murdering Japanese tourists.

BTW, did you notice that ARB dropped rates today by 75 points while horses were running?

Will THIS wake up Bali ??
Will THIS have them change their laws to STOP any support or comment for islamic domination??




"A WEBSITE that published a letter purportedly written by the Bali bombers on death row urging Muslims to kill the Indonesian president is under investigation, police say.

The website is dedicated solely to the letter supposedly signed by the three bombers - Amrozi, his brother Mukhlas and Imam Samudra.

"It's a cybercrime. We will investigate this case," chief detective Susno Duadji said.

The bombers are expected to be executed by firing squad this week over the attacks on the resort island of Bali which killed 202 people, mostly Australians and other foreigners, six years ago.

Defence lawyer Fahmi Bahmid denied that the letter was written by his clients, who have been given liberal freedom to air their fanatical views from the island prison where they are awaiting execution.

"It was made only to discredit their good image. The writer of the letter must be someone who doesn't like my clients," he said.

The eight-point letter in three languages - Indonesian, Arabic and English - urges other Islamist militants to "war against and kill" Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono and other senior officials. "


http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24603866-12377,00.html

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 4^th, 2008 at 9:08pm:

Will THIS wake up Bali ?? Will THIS have them change their laws to STOP any support or comment for islamic domination?? ...

I'm not sure if it is in Australian national interests to have Indonesia destabilised more then it is. We already have our military and political resources overstretched in East Timor, Solomons, PNG and can't hendle Western Papua already. If political vacuum will be created in Bali somebody else can move in e.g. China.

The indonesian Pres. won't put up with that sort of threat in HIS country.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 4^th, 2008 at 9:25pm:

The indonesian Pres. won't put up with that sort of threat in HIS country.

Do we need another Suharto?

Why ask rhetorical questions ?

"......Meanwhile, Agus Sentiana, a lawyer who acts for Imam Samudra, said there was a group of backers who wanted to set up a foundation in his honour and build a militant Islamic boarding school in the senior Jemaah Islamiah terrorist's home town of Serang in West Java......"


http://www.theage.com.au/world/bali-bombers-supporters-point-finger-at-australia-20081103-5gzw.html


This, and the islamic who wants to erect a shrine in their rememberance is why the koran should be banned from our shores and all islamics deported or shot.

They never stop. It is islam or death, give them death or accept islam.

You see the geopolitical reality is that Indonesia is not at our back door but at our front and together with Malaysia they can control our traffic if we become too hostile.

tallow - say what you think.

we have no front door vs back door.
We are not hostile.
islamics in indonesia are hostile toward their own pres.

I do not understand you. join the dots for me

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 4^th, 2008 at 10:03pm:

tallow - say what you think. we have no front door vs back door. We are not hostile. islamics in indonesia are hostile toward their own pres. I do not understand you. join the dots for me

We can not afford to be hostile to them and they can not afford to be hostile to us. At present we are at balance but few hot heads on both sides trying to swing the pendulum. They may succeed too. Present Indonesian authorities know it too that's why they are waiting for outcome of USA election to see if Obama will pull America to new isolationism, which would be a negative for Australian image and make Islamists in their country to look stronger. IMHO.

Who knows why it was delayed.  I'd prefer it were cancelled.

tallow - the only hostilities are coming from muslims in indonesia.

aussies were the ones bombed - remember ??

islamics don't care how they look. they want islam or death - look at abus example.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 5^th, 2008 at 8:14am:

tallow - the only hostilities are coming from muslims in indonesia. aussies were the ones bombed - remember ?? islamics don't care how they look. they want islam or death - look at abus example.

Indonesian government are Muslims in Indonesia. How are they hostile?

There were others not only Aussies who were  bombed there.

I don't care how I looked but I am not a Moslem. I don't think you care much either and you are not a Moslem.

I also think that you mixing up Moslem s and Islamists though all Islamists are Moslems not all Moslems are Islamists.

I still don't get the distinction between Muslim and Islamist. I was under the impression it was made up by someone on this forum for some rhetorical technique.

freediver wrote on Nov 5^th, 2008 at 9:32am:

I still don't get the distinction between Muslim and Islamist. I was under the impression it was made up by someone on this forum for some rhetorical technique.

Quote:

Islamism has been defined as:    * “a modern ideology and a political program”, [5]    * “the belief that Islam should guide social and political as well as personal life”,[9]    * “the ideology that guides society as a whole and that law must be in conformity with the Islamic sharia”,[10]    * “a movement that seeks cultural differentiation from the West and reconnection with the pre-colonial symbolic universe”,[11]    * "political mode",[12]    * “the whole body of thought which seeks to invest society with Islam which may be integrationist, but may also be traditionalist, reform-minded or even revolutionary”,[12] and    * “the active assertion and promotion of beliefs, prescriptions, laws or policies that are held to be Islamic in character.”[13]    * a movement of "Muslims who draw upon the belief, symbols, and language of Islam to inspire, shape, and animate political activity." May contain moderate, tolerant, peaceful Islamists or those who "preach intolerance and espouse violence" [14]

According to Abu, the vast majority of Muslims think that.

freediver wrote on Nov 5^th, 2008 at 9:45am:

According to Abu, the vast majority of Muslims think that.

I don't think you accept everything Abu says as truth and only truth.
IMHO, all people are different.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 5^th, 2008 at 8:14am:

aussies were the ones bombed - remember ??

It was not just the Aussies though, the locals had the second highest causality rate.

Prince Charles gone, Melbourne Cup ended, USA election resulted in slaughter of bulls, chicken and goats as was expected.

Now Islamic clerics have been asked to counsel the Islamists on death row.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24605968-661,00.html entertain readers with exclusive pictures of site where Bali bombers will be executed.

http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,6334829,00.jpg

Will it be tomorrow or next day?

Kytro wrote on Nov 5^th, 2008 at 7:51am:

...Who knows why it was delayed.  I'd prefer it were cancelled.

Quote:

relatives of British victims of the attack, that killed 202 people including 88 Australians and 28 Britons, have made a last-ditch plea to have the trio locked up for life rather than executed. "It is likely that these men will be seen as martyrs by many of their sympathisers and thus their execution will be a propaganda coup for the jihadist cause," the UK Bali Bombings Victims Group, which represents 26 British families, said in a statement. However, former Indonesian National Human Rights commissioner Sholahuddin Wahid said the executions must be carried out sooner rather than later. "This slow execution is a sign the government is not being strict in combating terrorism and law enforcement in Indonesia," Sholahuddin told Indonesia's TV One network. "If this execution is postponed again, the governments credibility will decrease." Terror expert Rohan Gunaratna, of Singapore's International Centre for Political Violence and Terrorism Research, said further delays were not an option for the government....

link


BTW. as Friday is Muslim "Yowm ul-Jumuah" it is unlikely that the execution will be tomorrow. So it is either today or Saturday or Sunday. Jews, Christians and Atheists wouldn't mind, would they?

I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

Quote:

A TEAM of police and prison doctors have examined the three Bali bombers in preparation for their executions as militants gathered at the home of two of them to warn against killing them. The medical checks are done to use as comparison with the autopsies after the executions and include blood pressure and heart checks. In June, the medical checks were done on two Nigerian drug-traffickers two days before their execution.

So it looks like Sunday

I wonder if any resurrection symbolism intended there.

Looks like it is all done.




"HUNDREDS of emotional supporters of the Bali bombers have clashed with police in Tenggulun today as the bodies of two of them arrived in their home village following their execution overnight.

Hundreds of heavily armed police could not control the 500-strong crowd which surged around the ambulances carrying the bodies.

Clashes broke out and the police were driven off the road amid shouts of “Jihad!” and “Get out!”
There were similar scenes in the west Java town of Serang as Imam Samudra's body was paraded through the streets between his local mosque and graveyard, shrouded in a black cloth bearing a Koranic inscription in Arabic.

Members of a radical group headed by hardline cleric Abu Bakar Bashir, the co-founder of Jemaah Islamiah, who was jailed on a conspiracy charge related to the bombings before being released, pushed people aside to make way for the body.

Westerners in both villages were verbally abused as "infidels" and told to leave.
The three Bali bombers were executed on an Indonesian island earlier today for their lead roles in the 2002 nightclub bombings that killed 202 people, including 88 Australians. "



http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24624846-12377,00.html


It'ld be nice to have your thoughts Abu .
Course as it is not the false front presented by you to us of islam you probably will not.

I'd like to see them send in the army to deal with that lot. It's hard to comprehend how criminal scum like them could draw such a strong crowd of supporters.

Really ? You find their behaviour hard to understand ?

Clue - they are muslims.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 9^th, 2008 at 7:03pm:

Really ? You find their behaviour hard to understand ? Clue - they are muslims.

Quote:

Most Indonesians practise a moderate form of Islam, and head of the country's leading Islamic body, the Indonesian Council of Ulamas, said the bombers could not be considered "martyrs.'' "Someone who killed others will not die as martyrs unless they waged a war in the name of religion. They were not fighting for religion,'' Umar Shihab was quoted as saying by the Detikcom news website. Even as the bombers' radical supporters protested, others quietly agreed their "jihad'' was wrong. "If there's a war fighting jihad is good for the religion but don't do it here in Indonesia. Bali isn't a battlefield,'' said Robi, 30, a neighbour of Samudra.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24624842-2703,00.html

tallow - you should give the WHOLE article - otherwise others here may think you are lying.


"Islamic leaders condemn Bali bombers correspondents in Cilacap | November 09, 2008
ISLAMIC leaders have condemned the Bali bombers in a bid to quell religious tensions after the three militants died together at the hands of elite Indonesian police snipers in Central Java today.

Indonesia was tonight on high alert for terrorist attacks and mob violence, as hundreds of hardline followers gathered in the bombers' home villages in east and west Java to bury the men responsible for the 2002 Bali bombings.

Authorities are fearing reprisals as news of the executions reverberate around the archipelago and world, and Australia has warned travellers to reconsider their plans to visit the world's largest Muslim nation.

The head of Indonesia's top Islamic body, the Majelis Ulama Indonesia (MUI), denounced Amrozi, his brother Mukhlas and Imam Samudra, saying they have not died as martyrs, as the three wished.

"To die as a martyr is impossible - people who kill cannot be said to be martyrs unless it is war,'' MUI head Umar Shihab told detik.com.

"I think it's not right. We are not at war.

"We are in peace and what they did, they killed Muslims.''

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24626366-12377,00.html


So, the bad part was they killed muslims ?
Killing infidels is fine ??




Your biased comments requested, Abu the deflector

That is an odd thing to say, but maybe it is the only way to stop Amrozi's supporters carrying out more violence.

When I saw the pictures of the extremists surrounding the coffins, I must admit that I had a fleeting thought of a bomb going off right at that very moment. Of course violence just leads to more violence.

No Muslim in their right mind agrees with what they did. I'd hope that our resident Muslims would agree with that. It should be a matter of shame. These scum have defamed their own religion.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 9^th, 2008 at 9:33pm:

tallow - you should give the WHOLE article - otherwise others here may think you are lying. ...

I have given the link to the article but for lazy people here is full text.


Quote:

Emotions boil over as bombers buried    * Font Size: Decrease Increase    * Print Page: Print November 09, 2008 GRIEF and religious fervour boiled over into calls for revenge as two brothers executed for their role in the 2002 Bali attacks were prepared for burial amid tight security. A crowd of about 500 supporters drove police off the road leading to the family home of 47-year-old Amrozi - dubbed the "smiling assassin'' for his disturbing grin - and Mukhlas, 48, as their bodies arrived. The men had been executed by firing squad along with fellow bomber Imam Samudra shortly after midnight on a prison island off southern Java, claiming to want to die as "martyrs'' and having shown no remorse for the attacks. The crowd burst into tears and shouts of "Allahu Akbar!'' (God is greater) at the sight of two black crows over the east Java village as the helicopter bearing the bodies landed in a nearby field. "God is great, God is great! God is showing his greatness. I'm so happy,'' shouted a supporter who sobbed uncontrollably at the sight of the birds. "This is God's grace. The mujahedeen (holy warriors) will fight on!'' shouted someone else in the crowd, crying and holding his hands to the sky in religious awe. "Of course they are martyrs. They fought hard in the name of Islam but they died. But dying doesn't mean they lost - they still won,'' said one supporter, refusing to give his name. Packed into narrow streets outside the family home, the crowd thronged around ambulances bearing the bodies from the helicopter and jostled with heavily armed paramilitary police. The bodies were eventually delivered to the local mosque for prayers ahead of the burials. In the west Java town of Serang, Imam Samudra was buried quickly after similar scenes as his body was paraded through the streets shrouded in a black cloth bearing a Koranic inscription in Arabic. Members of a radical group headed by hardline cleric Abu Bakar Bashir, who was jailed on a conspiracy charge related to the bombings before being released in 2006, pushed people aside to make way for the body. "There'll probably be retaliation. What is clear is that no drop of Muslim blood is free. It has consequences,'' said Ganna, 26, who travelled 90 km from the capital Jakarta to show his support. The bombers said they launched the attacks against packed nightclubs on the resort island of Bali - killing 202 people, mostly foreign tourists - to defend Islam from Western aggression and avenge US action in Afghanistan and Iraq. They were members of the Jemaah Islamiyah regional terror group blamed for a series of attacks around the region, part of a "holy war'' to create an Islamic caliphate spanning much of Southeast Asia. Most Indonesians practise a moderate form of Islam, and head of the country's leading Islamic body, the Indonesian Council of Ulamas, said the bombers could not be considered "martyrs.'' "Someone who killed others will not die as martyrs unless they waged a war in the name of religion. They were not fighting for religion,'' Umar Shihab was quoted as saying by the Detikcom news website. Even as the bombers' radical supporters protested, others quietly agreed their "jihad'' was wrong. "If there's a war fighting jihad is good for the religion but don't do it here in Indonesia. Bali isn't a battlefield,'' said Robi, 30, a neighbour of Samudra. - AFP

Can't see any reference to "killing Moslems".

Here is the link again
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24624842-2703,00.html

Check for yourself.

muso wrote on Nov 10^th, 2008 at 5:43am:

When I saw the pictures of the extremists surrounding the coffins, I must admit that I had a fleeting thought of a bomb going off right at that very moment. Of course violence just leads to more violence. No Muslim in their right mind agrees with what they did. I'd hope that our resident Muslims would agree with that. It should be a matter of shame. These scum have defamed their own religion.

We don't cheer the deaths of innocent civilians muso....I think you'll find that it is the non-muslim residents here that do that.

Remember....in a recent poll, only 1 (thats right...one) agreed that cheering the deaths of innocent civilians is despicable and should be banned.

Yes we find what occurred abhorent, however,  I do always ask myself why you guys demand that we feel 'shame' whenever a muslims kills a non-muslim civilian, yet when muslims civilians are killed by western forces...where is the shame?

Where is the anger? Shouldn't it be a matter of 'shame'? Have these scums not defamed your 'ethics' and 'lifestyle'?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/09/AR2008110902521.html

The US have killed over 50 thousand civilians (that is a conservative estimate) in the past 5 years....and I've never heard or seen any poster here show any remorse or shame (on the contrary, I've seen cheering), yet we're supposed to show 'shame' over 89 Aussies and 300 odd civilians.

Why are muslims the only ones expected to feel 'shame'?

lestat - from what i saw on your link, the figure of 50,00 is "exaggerated."

Quote:

A string of mistaken U.S. airstrikes this year has killed at least 150 Afghan civilians.

Not that this makes it any easier for the civillian victims and families of the victims of american killings. They were unintended targets.
That was not the intention.
America often apologises and pays for these errors.

Quote:

We don't cheer the deaths of innocent civilians muso....I think you'll find that it is the non-muslim residents here that do that. Remember....in a recent poll, only 1 (thats right...one) agreed that cheering the deaths of innocent civilians is despicable and should be banned.

That's not the same thing Lestat. Acknowledging a problem does not have to imply jumping straight to the denial of basic freedoms. Unless you are a Muslim of course.

Lestat wrote on Nov 10^th, 2008 at 8:58pm:

muso wrote on Nov 10th, 2008 at 5:43am: When I saw the pictures of the extremists surrounding the coffins, I must admit that I had a fleeting thought of a bomb going off right at that very moment. Of course violence just leads to more violence. No Muslim in their right mind agrees with what they did. I'd hope that our resident Muslims would agree with that. It should be a matter of shame. These scum have defamed their own religion. We don't cheer the deaths of innocent civilians muso....I think you'll find that it is the non-muslim residents here that do that. Remember....in a recent poll, only 1 (thats right...one) agreed that cheering the deaths of innocent civilians is despicable and should be banned. Yes we find what occurred abhorent, however,  I do always ask myself why you guys demand that we feel 'shame' whenever a muslims kills a non-muslim civilian, yet when muslims civilians are killed by western forces...where is the shame? Where is the anger? Shouldn't it be a matter of 'shame'? Have these scums not defamed your 'ethics' and 'lifestyle'? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/09/AR2008110902521.html The US have killed over 50 thousand civilians (that is a conservative estimate) in the past 5 years....and I've never heard or seen any poster here show any remorse or shame (on the contrary, I've seen cheering), yet we're supposed to show 'shame' over 89 Aussies and 300 odd civilians. Why are muslims the only ones expected to feel 'shame'?

Lestat - take it easy mate. All I said was that it was only a tiny minority of extremists who supported the bombers. I didn't demand that you confirm that. I took that as a given.

I don't defend the actions of the Americans in Iraq either. I was one of those people who demonstrated against the initial invasion and felt totally useless when the invasions actually took place regardless of the fact that it had little public support.

I am against all violence, including the death penalty.  

Foreign Minister Stephen Smith said yesterday that Australia would soon co-sponsor a resolution in the United Nations General Assembly calling for a moratorium on capital punishment.

freediver wrote on Nov 10^th, 2008 at 9:38pm:

That's not the same thing Lestat. Acknowledging a problem does not have to imply jumping straight to the denial of basic freedoms. Unless you are a Muslim of course.

Thats just it FD, you don't even acknowledge that their is a problem. You continuously defend the murder of muslim citizens as 'it is war', yet when the very same extremists who the west are apparently at war with commit an attrocitiy, you expect us to 'reign in our extremists'.

Why don't you reign in your extremists. Why don't you feel shame when attrocities are commited in your name.

How can you expect muslims to reign in extremists, when you were not even willing to reign in extremists on this board who cheered the death of children.

And you wonder why we don't take your demands seriously?

Thats just it FD, you don't even acknowledge that their is a problem.

Yes I do. Why do you think I've been suggesting that Muslims reign in their own lunatics rather than leaving it to foreign armies? It's not just to save us money.

You continuously defend the murder of muslim citizens as 'it is war'

It's not murder in a war, by definition.

yet when the very same extremists who the west are apparently at war with commit an attrocitiy, you expect us to 'reign in our extremists'.

Of course I do. I think it even is in 'your' own interest to do so. Which is why I can't get my head around your objection to it. Why on earth would anyone object to reigning in terrorists and preventing wars? The only answer I can think of is someone who actually wants a war. BTW it is a bit unnevering to discuss this in terms of 'you' and 'us' with a fellow Australian citizen.

Why don't you reign in your extremists.

I do. I can't remember the last time an Australian blew up a nightclub or something like that to further their cause.

Why don't you feel shame when attrocities are commited in your name.

Weren't you just complaining about others asking the same question of you?

How can you expect muslims to reign in extremists, when you were not even willing to reign in extremists on this board who cheered the death of children.

I see a difference between murder and saying mean things. I don't see the expectation as unreasonable. What I do see as unreasonable is you drawing a link between the two, like whether we stop people saying certain things should have some kind of impact on whether Muslims stop blowing people up. I see that as very disturbing. It's like you are trying to justify blowing people up because westerners have free speech.