Everybody else are so why not him/her?

Please make it a consciousness vote without religious or political partisanship.

I have voted, but dont want to sway the vote.
Won't make any comments till most votes are in.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 17^th, 2008 at 8:35am:

I have voted, but dont want to sway the vote. Won't make any comments till most votes are in.

Do you mean, is Satan a spirit, or does he like to sing "Old Man River" in a deep voice?

What do you mean by spiritual in this context? Not of this world?

I guess my understanding is that he's the Abrahamic (Ibrahimic?) deity that heads up the other supernatural cricket team - the ones that dress in black and don't play by the rules.  He's a deity that is recognized by Abrahamics as being the epitome of evil. He has bad dress sense and a wicked sense of humour.  

Muso, I always thought he was rumoured to be a very snappy dresser indeed.

Some stories tell that vanity caused his downfall but others that he had sympathy for man. Dostoyosky's famous pub scene.

“The devil was the first democrat” Lord Byron

"The Devil, can sometimes do a very gentlemanly thing.” Robert Louis Stevenson

And a favourite

“An apology for the devil: it must be remembered that we have heard one side of the case. God has written all the books.” Samuel Butler

Of course IF he exists than he is a spiritual being. And in saying that I don't believe he exists, I hope I don't cope a visit.

muso wrote on Nov 17^th, 2008 at 8:42am:

Do you mean, is Satan......the ones that dress in black and don't play by the rules.  He's a deity that is recognized by Abrahamics as being the epitome of evil. He has bad dress sense and a wicked sense of humour.

[/quote]
He has bad dress sense and a wicked sense of humour.   [/quote]


YOUTUBE....

Rowan Atkinson-Welcome to Hell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tqbxr2lsls

;)

locutius wrote on Nov 17^th, 2008 at 11:09am:

Muso, I always thought he was rumoured to be a very snappy dresser indeed. ...

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/Baltica/dw.jpg

This picture depicts The Satan in blue and red with a fag in his mouth but I've also seen pictures where he is dressed in pure black or red as well as white and of course in the nude too. So you are right on your money about his vanity though it doesn't preclude spirituality of any kind including singing and dancing.

Not sure what the question means..

But I prefer this one...

---

Grendel wrote on Nov 17^th, 2008 at 6:58pm:

Not sure what the question means.. But I prefer this one...

The question has the same meaning as in "is the god spiritual?"...

yes. that is the dress code red, which I mentioned before'.

The Satan in white together with an angel of the same colour

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s67/bluestars7/SexyDevil.jpg

How is that for diversity?

verra niiice....

oh almost forgot...  still don't get the question.

wot question ????

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 17^th, 2008 at 11:41pm:

wot question ????

Who cares? She looks extremely ....spiritual.

Grendel wrote on Nov 17^th, 2008 at 10:55pm:

oh almost forgot...  still don't get the question.

You should reduce your number of prayers per day as they divert your attention from the question of the Shaitan spirituality.

Ok I voted yes on the off chance I interpreted the question re Iblis/Lucifer properly.

It's easy to make fun of Satan - but he/she has many different faces.  Depending on which form you become susceptible to - you can either use "it" to your advantage and for the good of humanity or allow "it" to corrupt you.  There are also ways of discarding Satan if it becomes overwhelmingly destructive - but that's only if you're prepared to believe and listen.

We are all infected one way or another by Satanism and many have seen or experienced proof that Satan is very spiritual.

It's interesting that perceptions of the nature of the devil are diverse even in Europe.

Max Von Sydow in an interview regarding his role in 'The Exorcist' commented on how unusual a concept it was for him to perceive the devil as so... horrifyingly evil. Apparently in the Nordic tradition, the devil is a prankster and a fool and more an object of ridicule than fear.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Nov 18^th, 2008 at 10:13am:

It's interesting that perceptions of the nature of the devil are diverse even in Europe. Max Von Sydow in an interview regarding his role in 'The Exorcist' commented on how unusual a concept it was for him to perceive the devil as so... horrifyingly evil. Apparently in the Nordic tradition, the devil is a prankster and a fool and more an object of ridicule than fear.

If you mean Nordic Loke then he/she was more then just a fool and prankster.
The Eddas depict Loke as a villain, a coward, liar, cheater, thief and as a murderer. He also was an adept of shape-shifting(warewulf) and transsexual.


A 10th century depiction that is often interpreted as Loki exists in the parish church of Kirkby Stephen, England. The figure is bound with irons and horned.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/45/Loki-GerryMillar.jpg

I find it interesting how the Etruscan demons bear a strong resemblance to the iconography of Satan. They also had winged deities.

http://www.mysteriousetruscans.com/tardemons.html

When you consider that Christianity grew up via Rome, it's hardly surprising that it retains some of the old traditions, such as the Bishop's mitre, the purple gowns, the throne (sellam regni  trabeamque insignia nostri) and the smoke receptacle that they swing (something like sensus).

tallowood wrote on Nov 18^th, 2008 at 12:54pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Nov 18th, 2008 at 10:13am: It's interesting that perceptions of the nature of the devil are diverse even in Europe. Max Von Sydow in an interview regarding his role in 'The Exorcist' commented on how unusual a concept it was for him to perceive the devil as so... horrifyingly evil. Apparently in the Nordic tradition, the devil is a prankster and a fool and more an object of ridicule than fear. If you mean Nordic Loke then he/she was more then just a fool and prankster. The Eddas depict Loke as a villain, a coward, liar, cheater, thief and as a murderer. He also was an adept of shape-shifting(warewulf) and transsexual.

Don't know if it was Loke. Von Sydow was telling the story.

muso wrote on Nov 18^th, 2008 at 2:22pm:

I find it interesting how the Etruscan demons bear a strong resemblance to the iconography of Satan. They also had winged deities. http://www.mysteriousetruscans.com/tardemons.html When you consider that Christianity grew up via Rome, it's hardly surprising that it retains some of the old traditions, such as the Bishop's mitre, the purple gowns, the throne (sellam regni  trabeamque insignia nostri) and the smoke receptacle that they swing (something like sensus).

The blue demon with two serpents somewhat reminiscent of young Hercules strangling two snakes.
http://www.livius.org/a/heracles/hercules_antakya_sII_s.JPG

There were plenty of contacts between Greeks and Italy in pre-Roman time.

True. The Southern parts of Italy were in fact Greek colonies (Magna Graecia)

Censer is the word I was looking for. It's a smoking gold pot of incense on a gold chain that is used as part of a purification ritual, perhaps in teh Catholic church.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Nov 18^th, 2008 at 2:27pm:

tallowood wrote on Nov 18th, 2008 at 12:54pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Nov 18th, 2008 at 10:13am: It's interesting that perceptions of the nature of the devil are diverse even in Europe. Max Von Sydow in an interview regarding his role in 'The Exorcist' commented on how unusual a concept it was for him to perceive the devil as so... horrifyingly evil. Apparently in the Nordic tradition, the devil is a prankster and a fool and more an object of ridicule than fear. If you mean Nordic Loke then he/she was more then just a fool and prankster. The Eddas depict Loke as a villain, a coward, liar, cheater, thief and as a murderer. He also was an adept of shape-shifting(warewulf) and transsexual. Don't know if it was Loke. Von Sydow was telling the story.

Loke also was known as father of Hel who was ruler of realm of dead the hell.

This latest posts about the Satan made me wonder about his/hers origin.

I mean we all know that according to Christian, Islamic and probably Judaic traditions The Satan is the bad guy but what about other cultures. Even Loke had helped AEsir few times.

So where did the Satan have come from? Here are list of other Names, which may help to freshen old memories:

* Lucifer - (Lord Of Light)
   * Asmodeus
   * The Hooven Cloof
   * Pocker
   * The Prince of Darkness
   * The Prince of Devils
   * The Prince of This World
   * The Prince of the Air
   * His Satanic Majesty
   * Satanel
   * The Prince of Hell
   * The Prince of Pandemonium
   * The (Arch-) Fiend
   * The Evil One

 

   * Beelsebub
   * Belial
   * The Wicked One
   * The Tempter
   * The Author of Evil
   * Mefistofeles
   * The (Common) Enemy (of Mankind)
   * Old Harry
   * Old Nick
   * The Angel of the Bottomless Pit
   * Old Horney
   * Old Gooseberry
   * Satan
   * Mr. Scratch


Ahriman: the Zoroastrian God of Darkness (also the Persian God of Chaos) created Azhidaahaka, the Dragon of Death.

Azazel: the Lord Of The Wasteland, taught man about war and war devices.

Belial: The Worthless, is a devil sometimes refered to as the Antichrist.

Beelzebub - The Lord Of Flies - was a Philistine god. Christianity has often used Beelzebub as an interchangeable name for Satan. He is also

sometimes considered to be Satan's right-hand man.

Erlik: the Siberian God of the Underworld, was the first man but he was not given a soul.
Ghede: the Voodoo God of Death, occasionally turns the dead into zombies.

Hel: the Viking Goddess of Niflheim - an icy version of Hell - was sent to the underworld by Odin (the chief god of Viking mythology) to look after

the dead, excepting those warriors who went to Valhalla. Christianity took Hel's name and adapted it to its own underworld.

Ictinike: the Sioux Indian Devil, was more a spirit who enjoyed playing pranks on people than a ruler of an evil underworld.

Kali: a Hindu goddess, is the evil half of the goddess Devi. Kali means Black Destroyer.

Kronos: the Greek ruler of Tartarus - a bottomless pit - ate all of his children at birth because he was told that one of them would one day

overthrow him. Zeus, one of Kronos' children, escaped his siblings' fate and threw his father into the pit of Tartarus

Mara: a Hindu god, was the ruler of the underworld.

Moloch: a Canaanite god, was described as an old man with horns. He was also worshiped in Carthage, but with the name Baal-Hammon, which

was then used by the Hebrews as their Satan.

Mot: the Caanite Lord of Death, caused the change of seasons when he would force the god Baal underground.

Pan: the Greek God of Nature, has over time become associated with evil. The image of Pan - who had a man's upper body but had horns and

faun's legs - inspired the medieval Christian image of Satan.

Pluto: was the Greek god who ruled Hades

Rashnu: the Persian God of the Dead, judged if one went to Heaven or Hell

Satan: The well-known name of the Devil is just Satan...

Tiamat: the Babylonian dragon, fought with and lost to the god Marduk, who then created the universe from her dismembered body

Xipetotec: the Aztec God of Pain, enjoyed pain so much that he flayed himself alive. Aztec human sacrifices were usually made in his name.

Tallow - that's a great list. I had not heard of many of them.

Also the deceiver is a term for him

You can add a few Etruscan ones to that list:

Aita - ruler of the dead & personification of the underworld. He wears a wolf's head on his head.

Tuchulcha - a grotesque demon with horse's ears, a vulture's beak and snakes in his hands.

http://www.mysteriousetruscans.com/tuchulcha.html

In the mid 70's the Roman Catholic church carried out an exorcism on tuchulcha following activities of a cult in Rome. From memory, 6 people died and a number suffered mental health.  

then there's Vanth - the female demon of death. Lives in the underworld. With the eyes on her wings she sees all and is omni-present. She is the herald of death and can assist a sick person on his deathbed.

And ZOOL from Ghostbusters.

Does this look like a devil?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/aa/ChacDresden.jpg

To me it does but wiki says it is the god of Rain and thunder Chaac

Nonetheless I'm going to add him/her to The List of Names.

Well he probably bats for another team, and that's what satan means in the original Hebrew- the opponent or the enemy.

I'd also add Krishna. Anyone who destroys worlds must be included in your list of nasties.


wrote on Nov 10^th, 2286 at 2:45am:

I am, the destroyer of the worlds, who has come to annihilate everyone. Even without your taking part all those arrayed in the [two] opposing ranks will be slain!

According to wiki Maya believed in cyclicity of universe rather then in good vs evil paradigm. That's why they did not have The Satan so may be I'm wrong to add Chaac to The List of Names.

I believe that Australian aborigines did not have the concept of G vs B either

As for Hebrew devil ... according to OT he/she was not the opponent but a servant of God whose job was to test humankind, sort of like undercover agent.

.

Now theres an interesting sentence tallowood.


yes, from the times I have read the OT there does seem to be an ........... "understanding/working relationship" between God and the devil.

the book of Job has an example.

"One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them.
The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?"
Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it."
Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."

"Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land.  But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face."

The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger."
     Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD. "

Job 1:6-12

There is at least one more example in the OT similar to it.

some stuff in the bible I don't understand

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 19^th, 2008 at 8:25pm:

Now theres an interesting sentence tallowood. yes, from the times I have read the OT there does seem to be an ........... "understanding/working relationship" between God and the devil. the book of Job has an example. "One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it." Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land.  But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger."      Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD. " Job 1:6-12 There is at least one more example in the OT similar to it. some stuff in the bible I don't understand

They were The Egoless Programmers of Old Virtues.


Quote:

1. Understand and accept that you will make mistakes. The point is to find them early, before they make it into production.   2. You are not your code. Remember that the entire point of a review is to find problems, and problems will be found.   3. No matter how much you know, someone else will always know more.   4. Don't rewrite code without consultation. There's a fine line between "fixing code" and "rewriting code."   5. Treat people who know less than you with respect, deference, and patience.   6. The only constant in the world is change. Be open to it and accept it with a smile.   7. The only true authority stems from knowledge, not from position.   8. Fight for what you believe, but gracefully accept defeat.   9. Don't be "the guy in the room."  10. Critique code instead of people—be kind to the coder, not to the code.

tallowood wrote on Nov 19^th, 2008 at 7:42pm:

I believe that Australian aborigines did not have the concept of G vs B either

Probably the closest approximation in Aboriginal mythology is Feather Foot or the Cadiche Man... Apparently he's something like an avenging angel. Maybe similar to the role of Satan in the Book of Job.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Nov 19^th, 2008 at 8:58pm:

tallowood wrote on Nov 19th, 2008 at 7:42pm: I believe that Australian aborigines did not have the concept of G vs B either Probably the closest approximation in Aboriginal mythology is Feather Foot or the Cadiche Man... Apparently he's something like an avenging angel. Maybe similar to the role of Satan in the Book of Job.

I have heard about the aboriginal avengers but there is very little of details that I could find. I would greatly appreciate any information about that as I believe that it is where The Final Separation between The Natural Animalism and Organised Religion had happened.

Here is poem about evil spirits of ancient Sumer. May be that's where it all started.


Quote:

DESCRIPTIONS OF "THE SEVEN" I Destructive storms and evil winds are they, A storm of evil, presaging the baneful storm, A storm of evil, forerunner of the baneful storm. Mighty children, mightv sons are they, Messengers of Namtar are they, Throne-bearers of Ereshkigal. [1] The flood driving through the land are they. Seven gods of the wide heavens, Seven gods of the broad earth, Seven robber-gods are they. Seven gods of universal sway, Seven evil gods, Seven evil demons, Seven evil and violent demons, Seven in heaven, seven on earth. II Neither male nor female are they. Destructive whirlwinds they, Having neither wife nor offspring. Compassion and mercy they do not know. Prayer and supplication they do not hear. Horses reared in the mountains, Hostile to Ea. Throne-bearers of the gods are they. Standing on the highway, befouling the street. Evil are they, evil are they, Seven they are, seven they are, Twice seven they are. III The high enclosures, the broad enclosures like a flood they pass through. From house to house they dash along. No door can shut them out, No bolt can turn them back. Through the door, like a snake, they glide, Through the hinge, like the wind, they storm. Tearing the wife from the embrace of the man, Snatching the child from the knees of a man, Driving the freedman from his family home.

tallowood wrote on Nov 19^th, 2008 at 7:42pm:

According to wiki Maya believed in cyclicity of universe rather then in good vs evil paradigm. That's why they did not have The Satan so may be I'm wrong to add Chaac to The List of Names. I believe that Australian aborigines did not have the concept of G vs B either As for Hebrew devil ... according to OT he/she was not the opponent but a servant of God whose job was to test humankind, sort of like undercover agent.

I was just referring to the Hebrew language. The Hebrew word satan (sin-tet-nun sofit) means an adversary/opponent or accuser. You can also refer to I Peter 5:8 -

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

What's number 9 about?

freediver wrote on Nov 20^th, 2008 at 2:34pm:

What's number 9 about?

What you mean :

I Peter 5:9 ?

Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

Words of wisdom - we're all human regardless of religion.

tallowood wrote on Nov 19^th, 2008 at 9:26pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Nov 19th, 2008 at 8:58pm: tallowood wrote on Nov 19th, 2008 at 7:42pm: I believe that Australian aborigines did not have the concept of G vs B either Probably the closest approximation in Aboriginal mythology is Feather Foot or the Cadiche Man... Apparently he's something like an avenging angel. Maybe similar to the role of Satan in the Book of Job. I have heard about the aboriginal avengers but there is very little of details that I could find. I would greatly appreciate any information about that as I believe that it is where The Final Separation between The Natural Animalism and Organised Religion had happened.

A mate of mine works with Aboriginal communities. From what he's told me feather foot is the most feared of Aboriginal spirits. Even the mention of his name is enough to scare them. There are many rules that traditional aborigines must observe in order not to rouse the anger of the feather foot (or the Cadiche Man - pronounced Kad-eye-chi).

 9. Don't be "the guy in the room."

NorthOfNorth wrote on Nov 20^th, 2008 at 3:56pm:

tallowood wrote on Nov 19th, 2008 at 9:26pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Nov 19th, 2008 at 8:58pm: tallowood wrote on Nov 19th, 2008 at 7:42pm: I believe that Australian aborigines did not have the concept of G vs B either Probably the closest approximation in Aboriginal mythology is Feather Foot or the Cadiche Man... Apparently he's something like an avenging angel. Maybe similar to the role of Satan in the Book of Job. I have heard about the aboriginal avengers but there is very little of details that I could find. I would greatly appreciate any information about that as I believe that it is where The Final Separation between The Natural Animalism and Organised Religion had happened. A mate of mine works with Aboriginal communities. From what he's told me feather foot is the most feared of Aboriginal spirits. Even the mention of his name is enough to scare them. There are many rules that traditional aborigines must observe in order not to rouse the anger of the feather foot (or the Cadiche Man - pronounced Kad-eye-chi).

Thanks for the info. There was an Australian tv serial few years back. There was an episode about it but the three men who did the avenging were just men though they were pretty well psyched up. I would like to look at it again but don't remember the name.

freediver wrote on Nov 20^th, 2008 at 3:59pm:

9. Don't be "the guy in the room."

Quote:

Don't be the guy coding in the dark office emerging only to buy cola. The guy in the room is out of touch, out of sight, and out of control and has no place in an open, collaborative environment.

Very satanic image, IMHO.

god talking to satan does not mean satan worked for god.

Satan always wishes to destroy every good persons life but they are under the protection of god (unless they reject this pritectiion and ask for satan to enter their lives).

god in this case to prove to satan how good his servant was removed his protection thus allowing for evil to befall Job.

Two more names to the list:

Stalin and Mao.

oxytocin and brain too

So where did the Satan have come from? Here are list of other Names, which may help to freshen old memories:

* Lucifer - (Lord Of Light)
  * Asmodeus
  * The Hooven Cloof
  * Pocker
  * The Prince of Darkness
  * The Prince of Devils
  * The Prince of This World
  * The Prince of the Air
  * His Satanic Majesty
  * Satanel
  * The Prince of Hell
  * The Prince of Pandemonium
  * The (Arch-) Fiend
  * The Evil One



  * Beelsebub
  * Belial
  * The Wicked One
  * The Tempter
  * The Author of Evil
  * Mefistofeles
  * The (Common) Enemy (of Mankind)
  * Old Harry
  * Old Nick
  * The Angel of the Bottomless Pit
  * Old Horney
  * Old Gooseberry
  * Satan
  * Mr. Scratch


Ahriman: the Zoroastrian God of Darkness (also the Persian God of Chaos) created Azhidaahaka, the Dragon of Death.

Azazel: the Lord Of The Wasteland, taught man about war and war devices.

Belial: The Worthless, is a devil sometimes refered to as the Antichrist.

Beelzebub - The Lord Of Flies - was a Philistine god. Christianity has often used Beelzebub as an interchangeable name for Satan. He is also

sometimes considered to be Satan's right-hand man.

Erlik: the Siberian God of the Underworld, was the first man but he was not given a soul.
Ghede: the Voodoo God of Death, occasionally turns the dead into zombies.

Hel: the Viking Goddess of Niflheim - an icy version of Hell - was sent to the underworld by Odin (the chief god of Viking mythology) to look after

the dead, excepting those warriors who went to Valhalla. Christianity took Hel's name and adapted it to its own underworld.

Ictinike: the Sioux Indian Devil, was more a spirit who enjoyed playing pranks on people than a ruler of an evil underworld.

Kali: a Hindu goddess, is the evil half of the goddess Devi. Kali means Black Destroyer.

Kronos: the Greek ruler of Tartarus - a bottomless pit - ate all of his children at birth because he was told that one of them would one day

overthrow him. Zeus, one of Kronos' children, escaped his siblings' fate and threw his father into the pit of Tartarus

Mara: a Hindu god, was the ruler of the underworld.

Moloch: a Canaanite god, was described as an old man with horns. He was also worshiped in Carthage, but with the name Baal-Hammon, which

was then used by the Hebrews as their Satan.

Mot: the Caanite Lord of Death, caused the change of seasons when he would force the god Baal underground.

Pan: the Greek God of Nature, has over time become associated with evil. The image of Pan - who had a man's upper body but had horns and

faun's legs - inspired the medieval Christian image of Satan.

Pluto: was the Greek god who ruled Hades

Rashnu: the Persian God of the Dead, judged if one went to Heaven or Hell

Satan: The well-known name of the Devil is just Satan...

Tiamat: the Babylonian dragon, fought with and lost to the god Marduk, who then created the universe from her dismembered body

Xipetotec: the Aztec God of Pain, enjoyed pain so much that he flayed himself alive. Aztec human sacrifices were usually made in his name.

appended:

Also the deceiver is a term for him

Aita - ruler of the dead & personification of the underworld. He wears a wolf's head on his head.

Tuchulcha - a grotesque demon with horse's ears, a vulture's beak and snakes in his hands.

ZOOL from Ghostbusters

the god of Rain and thunder Chaac: looks ugly enough

Krishna (I am, the destroyer of the worlds, who has come to annihilate everyone. Even without your taking part all those arrayed in the [two] opposing ranks will be slain!)

Cadiche: Aboriginal feather foot Man

the guy coding in the dark office: The guy in the room is out of touch, out of sight, and out of control and has no place in an open, collaborative environment.

Stalin and Mao.

oxytocin:got brimstone within

brain - the deciver: the brain is always looking to relate the new to the old