Terrorist attack on Mumbai kills up to 100 as gunmen storm hotels, take hostages

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24714370-401,00.html

AT least one Australians is dead, two others have been shot and another is unaccounted for after gunmen lobbed grenades into crowds and opened fire with machine guns in India's financial capital Mumbai today

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has warned there could be more Australian casualties.

Officials said they were checking unconfirmed reports two Australians may have been killed in the simultaneous attacks on two luxury hotels, a restaurant, a railway station and other city sites.

Australian man Braid Gilbert Taylor, 49, is among more than 100 killed, the Press Trust of India said.

Among the foreign dead confirmed so far are a Japanese man, an Italian and a Briton.

A young Sydney woman has undergone surgery after she was shot through the leg, the bullet shattering her femur.

Her boyfriend from Townsville suffered flesh wounds from bullets that grazed his leg.

Survivors have said the attacks were targeted at Westerners, with gunmen rounding up terrified tourists and demanding to know their nationalities.

Mr Rudd described the attacks as murderous and said little was known about the Deccan Mujahedeen, the group claiming responsibility for the attacks.

"But whichever group has perpetrated this attack, they are cowards, absolute cowards and murderers," he said.

Mr Rudd joined a chorus of condemnation, as images of blood pooled on the floor at Mumbai's main Chhatrapati Shivaji railway station and at the five-star Taj Mahal and Oberoi Trident hotels filled news bulletins.

Officials said one member of a 12-person New South Wales Government trade mission, which had been staying at the Oberoi Trident, remained unaccounted for.

Another of the delegates, Garrick Harvison, an export manager for winery Yarraman Estate, was holed up in his hotel room waiting to be rescued.

Australians in Mumbai

Actress Brooke Satchwell has told how she escaped the rampaging terrorists by spending an hour hiding in a hotel toilet before racing past dead bodies as she ran into the street.

Cricket Australia has called off a tour to India by Australian cricketers for the Champions Twenty20 League next week.

It confirmed that the hotel at the centre of the attacks was to be home to players competing in the upcoming Champions League, including Shane Warne.

A group of 20 Australians who were staying at the Oberoi hotel were evacuated but there have been no further details on their wellbeing.

And Adelaide woman Chloe Papazahariakis who was about to marry a Bollywood star in Mumbai spoke of the carnage she had seen.

Police in siege with gunmen

Police said they had shot dead four gunmen and arrested nine suspects.

A militant holed up inside Mumbai's Oberoi Hotel said that seven attackers were holding hostages inside the luxury establisment.

"There are seven of us inside hotel Oberoi," the man identified as Sahadullah told India TV.

"We want all Mujahideens held in India released and only after that we will release the people."

The hostage situation was declared ended at the Taj Hotel.

"People who were held up there, they have all been rescued," Maharashtra state police chief A.N. Roy  told the NDTV news channel.

"But there are guests in the rooms, we don't know how many."

Indian Home Minister Shivraj Patil said there were around four or five attackers in each of the two hotels.

"They have attacked hotels, they have attacked the hospitals, they have attacked the railway station," he said.

"The terrorists are throwing grenades at us from the rooftop of the Taj and trying to stop us from moving in," police Inspector Ashok Patil said.

At least two guests, trapped in their rooms in the Taj, phoned TV stations. One said the firedoors were locked, another said he had seen two dead bodies by the swimming pool.

"Two of my colleagues are still in there and the last we heard from them was three hours ago and then the phone battery died," said a German national who escaped the Taj.

"We don't know where they are."

Police said at least 250 people were wounded in the attacks which also targeted a railway station and the Cafe Leopold, perhaps the most famous restaurant and hang-out for tourists in the city.

Boyfriend hero

The father of Kate Anstee, the Sydney woman shot as she dined at Mumbai's Cafe Leopold, has praised the heroic actions of her boyfriend David Coker.

Chris Anstee said the 24-year-old could have died had Mr Coker, 23, not carried her to safety.

"They were just sitting there and a whole lot of guys, four or five guys, just opened fire with machine guns,'' Mr Anstee said.

"Dave has been very quick-witted and level-headed. He grabbed Kate and picked her up.''

Mr Coker's father John said his son had told him how the scene played out.

"He lay on top of her until the shooting stopped and then picked her up and carried her outside and saw a gunman about 15 metres away and said he'll never forget the look - (he) looked at him and (the gunman) looked at David and he said 'he didn't shoot me dad'.''

The couple had only been in Mumbai for a few hours when gunmen attacked.

Ms Anstee has undergone surgery on her shattered leg. She will remain in intensive care while doctors wait for her condition to stabilise before they operate again.

Mr Coker is also in hospital after suffering minor bullet and shrapnel wounds.

Wasn't one of forum members planned to travel to India in search of spirituality?

terrorists ?
muslims again I presume.

should see the excuses in mv.

Honestly... What is wrong with these people?
And others wonder why people have an attitude towards their religion.  What other religion has terrorism and terrorists as an integral part of its fellowship?

the belief is proud of its extremism

in the koran there is a quote where some guy is talking to moh about how far he would go for 'allah".
moh says, "if I was told to cut off my brothers head I would do it."
The guy says, "That is great", he became a muzzie that day.

how &^#$ed is that ??

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 28^th, 2008 at 9:08am:

the belief is proud of its extremism in the koran there is a quote where some guy is talking to moh about how far he would go for 'allah". moh says, "if I was told to cut off my brothers head I would do it." The guy says, "That is great", he became a muzzie that day. how &^#$ed is that ??

It's about as &^#$ed as the grotty little bronze age episode about Abraham and Isaac, with God asking Abe to cut his son's throat just to prove his faith, then deciding that a ram would do instead.

Goats?/ sheep?/ kids? - the message is that ritualistic killing pleases God. As I've said before, a university educated theologian will ascribe some subtleties to it, but the average Kenyan Moran or Afghan tribesman will see no subtleties.

muso wrote on Nov 28^th, 2008 at 10:08am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 28th, 2008 at 9:08am: the belief is proud of its extremism in the koran there is a quote where some guy is talking to moh about how far he would go for 'allah". moh says, "if I was told to cut off my brothers head I would do it." The guy says, "That is great", he became a muzzie that day. how &^#$ed is that ?? It's about as &^#$ed as the grotty little bronze age episode about Abraham and Isaac, with God asking Abe to cut his son's throat just to prove his faith, then deciding that a ram would do instead. Goats?/ sheep?/ kids? - the message is that ritualistic killing pleases God. As I've said before, a university educated theologian will ascribe some subtleties to it, but the average Kenyan Moran or Afghan tribesman will see no subtleties.

Indian Mujahideen

Quote:

Among those arrested was Mansur Peerbhoy, a 31-year-old Yahoo India software engineer earning £25,000 a year, a princely salary in India. Peerbhoy is alleged to have been IM's head of internet operations. Though Peerbhoy was by far the most well-off among all the IM suspects arrested by the police, a majority of the others hailed from a similar background – young, educated and middle-class.

Guess what do young, educated and middle-class Indian Mujahideen have in common with the average Kenyan Moran or Afghan tribesman?

Pulling out the old testament isn't really an attack on Christianity muso...

Nor is citing an incident 1000s of years old.

I note it isn't Christianity or Christians using terrorism etc to further their religion.

It was the same story with the London bombers and even some of the 9/11 terrorists I think. Young, educated, well-off etc.

freediver wrote on Nov 28^th, 2008 at 11:33am:

It was the same story with the London bombers and even some of the 9/11 terrorists I think. Young, educated, well-off etc.

Exactly. It isn't level of education, age or social position but rather level of indoctrination from their spiritual leaders that makes them terrorists.

Saying above I also want to add that, IMHO, not all Muslims are like that some of them posses ability to think critically and quasi independently but it seems that they are in minority and if they dare to voice their thoughts they become targets for violent and relentless campaign by orthodox mullahs and blindly obedient majority.

I will provide more example of that in What is the Qur’an? Archaeological Find thread later in regards of difficulties that modernist Islamic scholars have to go through.

Grendel wrote on Nov 28^th, 2008 at 11:31am:

Pulling out the old testament isn't really an attack on Christianity muso... Nor is citing an incident 1000s of years old.

I agree. The story is common to several religions. My point is that violent people will draw any message they like from just about any religion.

another point is, there are many violent messages to be taken directly from the koran and mohs life.

one needs only to be literate to see violence in the koran.

Quote:

Mumbai's chief minister Vilasrao Deshmukh said two "British-born Pakistanis" were among eight gunmen captured alive during bloody shoot-outs with soldiers.

8 prisoners. It is fair chance that it will be found out who was behind the attack.
I wonder where is Haneef right now.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 28^th, 2008 at 8:08am:

terrorists ? muslims again I presume. should see the excuses in mv.

you mean these people who unequivocally condemn it?

http://muslimvillage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=47735&hl=

or do you object to people discussing why it happened?

of course to you that is excusing it- typical

There is no excuse for terrorism and the death of innocent people like this.

gaybriel - thanks for NOT posting their diversions and denials.

grendel - they don't have excuses for it, they have instructions from the koran.

can you post them instead?

that is the only topic I saw on it

It's good to see some muslims coming forward to condemn these types of attacks.
They need to hear the condemnation from their peers, not from non-muslims.

I'm getting the feeling that tolerance has worn pretty thin. Not just on forums like this one, but also in the general (western) public.

http://www.islamonline.com/news/newsfull.php?newid=188384

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/southasia/news/article_1445348.php/Organisation_of_Islamic_Conference_condemns_Mumbai_attacks_

http://www.zawya.com/Story.cfm/sidANA20081127T133239ZSHI46/Iran%20condemns%20%27evil%27%20attacks%20in%20Mumbai

http://mikeghouse.sulekha.com/blog/post/2006/07/muslims-condemn-the-mumbai-rail-bombings.htm

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,178385-3,00.html

"During Friday prayers last week, for instance, the Imam of Mecca condemned terrorism and warned about "the spreading of evil on this earth.""

http://www.religioustolerance.org/islfatwa.htm


"Last fall, CAIR launched a national petition drive as part of a campaign by Muslims called 'Not in the Name of Islam.' To date, nearly 700,000 Muslims have signed the petition condemning terrorism committed in the name of Islam, and many newspapers have covered the petition drive. As part of the same campaign, CAIR also created and paid for public service announcements set to air on television stations nationwide....."

"If all that wasn't enough, last Thursday the Fiqh Council of North America issued a fatwa, or religious ruling, against terrorism and extremism. Endorsed by more than 100 U.S. Muslim authorities, the fatwa boldly and unequivocally forbids terrorism and admonishes those who commit terrorist attacks....."

"The lengthy fatwa continues with references to the Qur'an that support the ruling. It may not be enough to dissuade a minority of extremists hellbent on destruction, but it is the right thing to do."

"In the meantime, we will continue to react with the same shock and dismay and, yes, anger, at the misguided people who continue to show no regard for human life. And we'll continue to speak out against terrorism in the hopes that someone is listening."

Who was Immam of the terrorists, which mosque did they go to?

Q1/ what book did the terrorists read to encourage this behaviour ?

Q2/ whose example of murder and assassainations did they emulate ??

A1/ koran

A2/ mohammad the murderer

obviously I could not post this in anywhwere gaybriel the deleter deletes

get off the cross honey, somebody needs the wood

btw I posted those because people on here often accuse muslim 'leaders' of being silent and not condemning the attacks- here you can see the opposite

Islamic religious leader incited Mumbai killers


Quote:

THE al-Qa'ida-linked Lashkar-e-Toiba terrorists suspected over the Mumbai massacre were trained in Muzaffarabad, capital of Pakistan-controlled Kashmir, and were incited by speeches from their leader in Lahore. ... They were ordered to "kill until your last breath" and murder up to 5000 people. They did so after provocative speeches by Hafiz Mohammed Saeed last month in Lahore, capital of the Punjab.

So much for islamic leadership.

gaybriel,  apart from your offensive abusive reply, what's say you answer my questions ??

Gaybriel wrote on Dec 1^st, 2008 at 12:41am:

get off the cross honey, somebody needs the wood

Is wood needed to beat deceitful moslem leaders on their thick heads so they started act against moslem terrorist not just pay lip service?

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 1^st, 2008 at 8:26am:

gaybriel,  apart from your offensive abusive reply, what's say you answer my questions ??

oh please- you can talk. someone who just recently told me they hope that my husband beats me and that I'm a nothing woman. practise what you preach mate.

as to your questions- you already answered them yourself and nothing I say will change your mind, so what is exactly is the point

This is not a good sign. It would make an escalation of the problem inevitable. Hopefully it is just posturing on the part of Pakistan. Someone needs to bring the lunatics in the hills under control. It needs to come from both sides of the Pakistan/Afghan border. Those hills could end up being a bigger flashpoint than Israel. It was fine when they were happy to remain tribal hills that no-one can control, but the lawlessness will spread as the world gets smaller.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24731282-601,00.html

PAKISTAN is withdrawing troops from the fight against al-Qa'ida and the Taliban to redeploy them to its border with India as tensions between the two nuclear-armed nations escalate over the terrorist massacre in Mumbai.

As the clean-up began after terrorists killed at least 195 people, including two Australians, the only gunman captured provided testimony of the operation's links to a Pakistan-based militant group, intelligence sources said yesterday.

Ajmal Amir Kamal, 21, whose clean-shaven face has become an enduring image of the attacks after he was caught on a CCTV camera wearing a Versace T-shirt, was interrogated in a safe house in Mumbai.

He identified all the attackers as Pakistani citizens and acknowledged that they were trained by Lashkar-e-Toiba, a militant group fighting Indian rule in Kashmir, reports said.

He confirmed the militants had come ashore in dinghies launched from a hijacked vessel whose crew had been killed, reports said.

Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari urged India not to "overreact" after Indian and US officials suggested the militants could have been from the Pakistan-based LET. The group was behind the deadly 2001 assault on the Indian parliament that pushed New Delhi and Islamabad to the brink of war.

"If something happens (amid the rising tensions with India), the war on terror cannot be our priority," a senior Pakistani official told a media briefing yesterday.

"We'll take everything from the western border (with Afghanistan - the main area of al-Qa'ida and Taliban activity). We won't leave anything there." Indian army sources said forces near Pakistan had been placed on a raised alert before a meeting that Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh called with security chiefs in New Delhi today. Mr Zardari was meeting Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani and his army chief, General Ashfaq Kayani, amid fears that the Mumbai crisis had the potential for a replay of the 2001 standoff.

Dr Singh cancelled a meeting with Pakistan Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi in New Delhi over the weekend.

At the same time, Pakistan's army forced the country's civilian Government into an embarrassing about-face after it had earlier agreed to bow to Indian pressure and send the head of the Inter-Services Intelligence spy agency to New Delhi to help in the Mumbai investigation.

Mr Zardari and Mr Qureshi denied the assault was launched by terrorists trained and based in Pakistan. Conceding that the confrontation between the two nuclear-armed neighbours was extremely serious, Mr Qureshi called on India to ease the tension. "It is in Pakistan's interests and in India's interests to defuse the situation. Lowering of tension is essential.

"Finger-pointing or coming to hasty conclusions will play into the hands of the common enemy, that is, the terrorists."

India's Home Minister, the Government's most senior security official, last night quit the cabinet, becoming the first major scalp following the intelligence failure that led to the massacre.

The resignation of Shivraj Patil was followed by that of National Security Adviser MK Narayanan. Sources said other heads were expected to roll as the crisis within the Government deepened over what was the worst terrorist attack in India, and one which is being referred to as "India's 9/11".

Mr Patil, a powerful figure because of his closeness to India's supreme political leader, Italian-born Sonia Gandhi, had for months been under fire because of the growing number of terrorist attacks across the country. But until last night he had managed to cling to his position.

Public outrage over the Government's failure to get to grips with the issue of terrorism had, however, become too much for him to withstand.

Political analysts said that while the departure of Mr Patil would be widely welcomed, it was likely to do little to save the Government from severe criticism over its failures on the terrorism front - failures that many believe have the potential to drive it from office at elections due before May.

US President George W. Bush pledged full support to India as it investigated the attacks, saying the killers "will not have the final word". "The killers who struck this week are brutal and violent," Mr Bush said.

"But terror will not have the final word. The people of India are resilient. The people of India are strong. They have built a vibrant, multi-ethnic democracy. They can withstand this trial."

An Indian colleague tells me that for the first time ever, The Pakistani Secret Service are actually sending investigators to India to help investigate the terror attacks on Mumbai.

The latest is that Pakistan will not now be moving troops to the Indian border.

That's second hand information, but at least it sounds like it's progress.

gaybriel - beating his wife would just be a muslim husband following the koran.

unless of course you are going to be perfectly submissive and roll over for him whenever he wants all your life.

no it wouldn't. but hey you keep thinking that

Quote:

gaybriel - get off the cross honey, somebody needs the wood

ever made that sort of quip against the intolerant muslims ??
ever get bothered when they were abusing me en mass ?

thought not, groveller

Leave out the personal attacks sprint.

Something practical at last.


Quote:

Mumbai's top Muslim clerics vowed on Tuesday to block the burial of nine Islamist militants who killed 183 people in a three-day rampage last week, saying their acts were an affront to Islam. "Such demons -- they will not find an inch of land in any Muslim cemetery," Maulana Sayed Moinuddin Ahsraf, secretary of the All-India Sunni Jamiat-ulema, told Reuters. He spoke after a meeting of Muslim clerics and leaders from the Indian state of Maharashtra, of which Mumbai is the capital. In past attacks by Islamists in India, attackers killed have been buried. The ordinary practice is for Muslim burials to be conducted quickly, within a few hours of death.

I agree Tallo, it is great to see muslims in positions of authority strongly denouncing these murderers, and declaring them outside of Islam, it may help to make the next "martyr" stop and consider just how religious their intentions really are.

It is alsp a good way to regain some respect from westerners, who have become totally disenchanted with muslim behaviour.

Quote:

The best defence against this kind of murderous violence is to limit the pool of recruits, and the only way to do that is for the home society to isolate, condemn and denounce publicly and repeatedly the murderers — and not amplify, ignore, glorify, justify or “explain” their activities. ... Because, I repeat, this kind of murderous violence only stops when the village — all the good people in Pakistan, including the community elders and spiritual leaders who want a decent future for their country — declares, as a collective, that those who carry out such murders are shameful unbelievers who will not dance with virgins in heaven but burn in hell. And they do it with the same vehemence with which they denounce Danish cartoons.

Calling All Pakistanis

I think the use of the term 'demon' is significant. Most criticism seems to be in secular terms, or saying that it is 'not correct interpretation' of Islam. This seems to be a change from saying they are astray to saying they are the enemy.

tallow and mozzaok - of course all reasonable minded people agree with both of you.


Seems pakistan disagrees.


"THE Pakistan President, Asif Ali Zardari, has risked worsening his nation's stand-off with India by indicating it will not comply with demands to hand over 20 terrorism suspects following the Mumbai attacks.

"If we had the proof we would try them in our courts, we would try them in our land and we would sentence them," he told CNN yesterday.

India says it has evidence the terrorists who killed nearly 200 people in Mumbai last week were from Pakistan. But Mr Zardari labelled them "stateless actors" wanting to hold the world hostage. "The state of Pakistan is in no way responsible," he said.

His refusal to agree to India's request could exacerbate a sharp deterioration in relations between the nuclear-armed neighbours following the Mumbai attacks.

Yesterday the US Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice, arrived in New Delhi to defuse deepening tension in the region.

Speaking on her arrival, Dr Rice said President Zardari had promised her following the Mumbai attack he would "follow the leads wherever they may go".

She refused to comment on whether Pakistan would turn over the fugitives demanded by India but said this was "a time for everybody to cooperate and to do so transparently and this is especially a time for Pakistan to do so".

Dr Rice said both India and Pakistan had a mutual interest in combating terrorists. "These are enemies of Pakistan as well as enemies of India," she said.

Pakistan is under pressure to respond to Indian allegations that militants recruited and trained in Pakistan had carried out the attacks. US intelligence has backed the claims. The US director of national intelligence, Mike McConnell, yesterday blamed Lashkar-e-Toiba for involvement without naming the group.

India says one terrorist caught in Mumbai is Pakistani and claims to have other evidence showing the group arrived from Pakistan by sea. But Mr Zardari said his country did not yet have sufficient proof. "We have not been given any tangible proof to say that he is definitely a Pakistani. I very much doubt … that he's a Pakistani," he told CNN.

Hardliners in India have advocated a military response, possibly strikes on terrorist training camps believed to be inside Pakistan...

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/pakistan-refuses-to-hand-over-suspects/2008/12/03/1228257139413.html