http://www.youtube.com/v/-96Hp5yNu-Y

The protest was a peaceful demonstration against the ebil joo zionists. But, just in case the Jews attacked, the Religion of Peace activists brought some molotov cocktails with them.

Welcome to Europistan - Norway branch.

Obviously you identify Islam as a potentially huge problem for the coming generation, but do you see anyway to avoid conflict?

We seem on a course where violent clashes will be inevitable, and as a normal person, I would seek to avoid that if at all possible.

I worry that antagonistic attacks on Islam is merely fuelling the flames of hatred, that already simmer in the breasts of way too many muslims, and will just steer more towards extremism, which is exactly what we don't want.

I agree that it has developed it's own momentum, so to sit back and do nothing will not help either, but the only solution, of real muslims, promoting real change and progress inside Islam, seems like a fantasy concept, because we just do not see that happening, but it is what must happen, if major violence is to be avoided.

Have you heard any suggestions how we could help promote Islam to change for the better?

mozzaok wrote on Jan 11^th, 2009 at 8:59am:

Realistically - no. Quote: We seem on a course where violent clashes will be inevitable, and as a normal person, I would seek to avoid that if at all possible. Not possible, I don't think. Wars occur because of beliefs, points of view. Our point of view, or main point of view seems to be a belief in: - equality, tolerance and the rule of law; - secular society; - violence only in self-defence, and real self-defence - that is direct attack, not some doctrine of 'I dont like them they oppress me, so I attack which is REALLY self-defence; - every culture is as good as each other, there is no bad culture. - (most stupidly) anyone from around the world that we bring into our culture and our cultures, will embrace and support our culture, laws, and way of life. Islam on the other hand believes your culture and laws are rubbish. More than that, they are blasphemy. Islam is the only religion that has a very precise and defined doctrinal culture of warfare against unbelievers. So we bring a whole lot of people into our societies, sworn as part of their religion to destroy us, and wonder why they do? What idiots we are. [quote]I worry that antagonistic attacks on Islam is merely fuelling the flames of hatred, that already simmer in the breasts of way too many muslims, and will just steer more towards extremism, which is exactly what we don't want.

Goddamn - forget about that. Whatever 'attacks' or whatever you do or do not do, makes no difference to the philosophy. Whatever you say, dont say, is irrelevant. You are an infidel who has rejected allah - you must die, your society must die - sharia must be implemented, allah's law and allah's people must prevail. That doesnt change, it is in thousands of pages of the hadith. So forget about the whole apologist angle saying 'It must be us - we must have offended them.'


Quote:

I agree that it has developed it's own momentum, so to sit back and do nothing will not help either, but the only solution, of real muslims, promoting real change and progress inside Islam, seems like a fantasy concept, because we just do not see that happening, but it is what must happen, if major violence is to be avoided.

There will be major violence, that is inevitable.


Quote:

Have you heard any suggestions how we could help promote Islam to change for the better?

For it to get better is impossible in a sense because of Islam's intolerant and inflexible nature. The settled doctrine of beliefs is that Western society, in fact all other socities that are not allah's sharia - must be destroyed and muslims are commanded to help destroy them. So unless Muslims say, yes that is the case, but, we have decided that we accept the right of infidels to be infidels, free with their own governments (which they will never do) then there will always be conflict as they try to form the great Caliphate of Islamic domination over the whole world.

Its not hard to work out what they are going to do - they say it all the time. But that is covered up by apologists who say 'Its a bad translation', 'That is a weird misunderstander Islam' or 'You are taking it out of context.'

As a first step for policies in Australia, end Islamic immigration totally. Not a single one comes here anymore. Anyone else, from anywhere else fine. But no more Muslims.

Well I have to disagree with the general thrust of your position Calanen.
I do not see the extremist interpretation of Islam, as the only interpretation, and if you look to christianity you can see the parallels.

We had a time when theocratic christians ruled, and a more violent, intolerant, repressive bunch of creeps would be hard to imagine.
Christianity changed itself, it dropped the extremist stuff, and concentrated more on the central tenets of christ's teachings of love and understanding.

We had a time when communism was a major threat to the world, and zealots campaigned for global domination, but the normal citizens who once supported them in this goal, changed their stance, and it is no longer a threat.

I can see the commonality, being that all systems require the support of their people, as the area of hope for a peaceful change of direction.

While we see many muslims currently supportive of the extremist interpretations of Islam, ultimately they are just average people, mums, and dads, who desire a decent future for themselves and their families, and when they get disenchanted with the extremists, and withdraw their support for them, then a new, moderate and more benign form of Islam may develop.

That should be our goal, to not ostracise all muslims, but to merely help them identify the extremists for what they are, not just the enemies of western culture, but the enemies of all peace loving, decent people.

How we do that is the tricky bit. :o

mozzaok wrote on Jan 11^th, 2009 at 10:21am:

Quote: Well I have to disagree with the general thrust of your position Calanen. I do not see the extremist interpretation of Islam, as the only interpretation, and if you look to christianity you can see the parallels. That's what Westerners dont understand, what is supposedly 'extreme' Islam, is just - Islam. What may be extreme are the methods employed, not the aims. That is some Muslims believe that the stealth jihad is the correct way of achieving the destruction of the West. While some believe terror is the way to do it. Nobody disagrees though that the West has to be destroyed. [quote]We had a time when theocratic christians ruled, and a more violent, intolerant, repressive bunch of creeps would be hard to imagine.

Well, yes and no. It has been part of the great counter culture push, ie, hate yourself and white guilt to say how bad the Catholic Church was. Bad things were done, but, it was less about doctrine and more about individuals.


Quote:

Christianity changed itself, it dropped the extremist stuff, and concentrated more on the central tenets of christ's teachings of love and understanding.

It did - but it reformed the Church, it didnt reform the Bible. A central tenet of Islam is that there must be warfare against unbelievers. The supremacy of Islam through warfare is a central and invioable part of the religion. I dont see that being reformed, I dont see how it can be.


Quote:

We had a time when communism was a major threat to the world, and zealots campaigned for global domination, but the normal citizens who once supported them in this goal, changed their stance, and it is no longer a threat.

But they werent communists, they were people who lived under communism.

I can see the commonality, being that all systems require the support of their people, as the area of hope for a peaceful change of direction.


Quote:

While we see many muslims currently supportive of the extremist interpretations of Islam, ultimately they are just average people, mums, and dads, who desire a decent future for themselves and their families, and when they get disenchanted with the extremists, and withdraw their support for them, then a new, moderate and more benign form of Islam may develop.

Why should it? What possible impetus is for their to have a moderate form of Islam, when apologists of every persuasion make excuses and blame Westerners for the most extreme, violent terror of Islam. See the worse that Islam behaves, the more it is our fault. So they never need to behave, because its ALWAYS our fault.


Quote:

That should be our goal, to not ostracise all muslims, but to merely help them identify the extremists for what they are, not just the enemies of western culture, but the enemies of all peace loving, decent people.

You dont get it. It is like saying that we need to engage with the moderate Nazis in the Third Reich, or the moderate Stalinists under the Soviet Union. There is no such thing.  It is the ideology that needs to change, not the people.

Islam needs to enter into a new lasting treaty with infidels, to say, sworn on the Koran:

- infidels have a right to exist, infidel nations have a right to exist under infidel law;

- muslims will never raise a hand against infidel nations or infidel systems or governments through jihad or otherwise.

If they dont do that, its pointless talking. Also, keeping muslims in muslim lands is important. They have their muslim government there, so no need for internal jihad. They do not have muslim government here, so there must be warfare until there is.

As the resident muslims here have shown, they are intolerant and seek to destroy whatever does not entirely agree with the koran and hadiths.

That is in keeping with islam.

the bible has been greatly misused in the past.

the rally showed one way of muslims partaking in jihad - their directive from mohammad

Well if Abu is a moderate Mozz...  I'd be worried.

No I wouldn't consider Abu as moderate, more of a try hard, a pattern which many converts who know they don't really fit, fall into.

http://www.youtube.com/v/AeUzAk1nXy4

More religion of peace activists in Denmark.

Pro-Pally rally atack cops in New York and NYPD kicks their ass for that.

By admin • January 11, 2009

Well well well,  pro-pally nutjobs made a mistake of attacking NYPD cops  during their anti-Israel rally and got their ass handed to them. They are forgetting that New York is not a Londonistan for them, where they can attack cops and still get away with it.

NEW YORK (CNN) — At least nine protesters were arrested in a pro-Palestinian rally Sunday afternoon in New York that injured seven police officers, authorities said.
Seven police officers were injured Sunday in New York City during a pro-Palestinian rally.

Seven police officers were injured Sunday in New York City during a pro-Palestinian rally.

The extent of injuries varied from minor to serious, New York police said. Two officers sustained head injuries. Detective Cheryl Crispin said the protesters taken into custody faced charges ranging from disorderly conduct to reckless endangerment.

http://www.jihadpress.com/2009/01/pro-pally-rally-atack-cops-in-new-york-and-nypd-kicks-their-ass-for-that/

[If it was Londonistan the papers would have said 'Palestinian protestors boots damaged in a racist attack as he repeatedly stomped on a Police officer's head who had aggressively incited him by asking him not to throw molotov cocktails. The Met has apologised and promised to send the entire force to Islamic Sensitivity training.]

The cops were the ones injured !!!!!!!!!!

islamics seek death, so they don't give a hoot

http://www.youtube.com/v/iktdJVFpMrw

Feel the love alert - same demonstration in Olso, protestors put children amongst the crowd to prevent the cops from smashing them. Human shields in Gaza? And human shields of children in Oslo.

www.youtube.com/v/VuGLYqbkcVE

Religion of Peace Activists in Londonistan peacefully throwing rocks and bottles at evil zionist London Met Police.

Should the police charge the mosques for the expenses they occur ?
Same as with the extra security required world over

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 12^th, 2009 at 4:01pm:

The cops were the ones injured !!!!!!!!!! islamics seek death, so they don't give a hoot

If I know NYPD, the cops werent the ONLY ones injured. I have a good friend that was a former Asst DA in NYC, and the stories he tells...

http://www.youtube.com/v/kp-lwSe2llg

Religion of Peace activitists peacefully throw objects at Police, shouting 'Run you Kaffir Cowards!'

It has nothing to do with religion mind.

Actually by the sounds of their obscenities I doubt they're all that religious.

The guy in the galabiyah (long flowing white robe) quite clearly is telling them to stop it and is trying to halt the misdirected anger and violence. So actually it  seems the more Islamic elements of the demonstration are the voice of reason.

Remember not just dedicated Muslims would attend a free Palestine rally. You'd have everyone from anarchist atheists, to socialists and commies, anti-globalisation guys, Palestinian Christians, secularised Muslims etc. In fact the largest voice for Palestinians in most Western countries are the PA/Fatah supports, who are secularist nationalists. They might chant "Allahu akbar" but not out of any great religious devotion, more of  a nationalist cry.

Not saying that Muslims definitely wouldn't get so heated, they might do... Anyway it's not in Australia, so stop trying to link it back to the situation of Muslims here. Muslims here did no such thing.

http://www.youtube.com/v/fkxF7tOoceA

Religion of Peace Activists in ...Denmark, chanting Heil Hitler and Kill the Jews.

But whether they are here or not, Abu, they are muslims, and they are your brothers, and you support them over any non-muslim.

Have you not said as much yourself?

mozzaok wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 8:10am:

But whether they are here or not, Abu, they are muslims, and they are your brothers, and you support them over any non-muslim. Have you not said as much yourself?

Lucky Abu is here to open your eyes hey Mozz, cause apparently once upon a time you would of supported these protestors.

Isn't that right Mozz. Any other lies you'd like to share with us?

Oh...and what of the S11 protesters Mozz...given that the majority of them were Christian/Secular....should their actions reflect on your secular ideals?

Or is it only muslims  you wish to tarnish?
(No need to answer that question, we already know the answer).

mozzaok,

Supporting doesn't have to mean condoning their actions. It can mean advising them against such actions. I've detailed this before for you... not that you listen, but can't blame a man for trying.

Advise..... ROTFLMAO

Like you do...

So when was the last time you advised anyone?  How much effect did it have.  oh wait...  by your stance here there'd be no reason to advice...  just join the cheer squad.

abu_rashid wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 9:02am:

mozzaok, Supporting doesn't have to mean condoning their actions. It can mean advising them against such actions. I've detailed this before for you... not that you listen, but can't blame a man for trying.

So I guess if they rise up against us, we can count you out. At the very least, or perhaps you will join with them.

What we can be sure of is that you will not stand with us fighting against Jihad.

Oh mozzaoks pretty ok. He makes his own mind up

Unusual line to take calanen?

Ahhhh...  that would be Abu..  sprint.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 11:20pm:

Oh mozzaoks pretty ok. He makes his own mind up Unusual line to take calanen?

Not necessarily. One of the more important aspects of Islam is its loyalty to the ummah over the national interest, or indeed any local interest.

That means in effect, if Indonesia attacked us, there is a real risk the 'ummah,' muslims in Australia, would help Indonesian troops attack us. Because they are muslims, and we are kuffar. Especially if the Indonesian troops guaranteed that sharia would be installed in a new caliphate once they had power.

So, it's a very real question. Are people who swear loyalty to the ummah, still loyal to Australia? The answer is - likely to be for many - only when it suits them, and only when it does not contradict Islam.

Watch out if Malyasia and Indonesia join together to fight us here in a great Jihad. You'd really need to watch your back with respect to all muslims within these borders.

Get everyone to swear a loyalty oath to Australia above all else, on your Holy Book of choice, and to promise to defend Australia against all enemies both domestic and foreign, regardless of which religion the enemies are members of.

That would weed out the passport holders from the true citizens.