Moderation of the Muslim section is a disgrace and does not provide a level playing field to all posters.

Posts are being deleted or modified then lies are being posted about why such action was taken.

Posters who dissent are then threatened with banning and any attempt by them to prove the fairness of what they said or the dishonesty of the Moderators through reposting is deleted.

Moderators should not post on the boards they moderate. Someone who actively participates in a discussion is not a moderator or arbitrator.

If they do insist on participating then their moderating powers should be limited to insulting words and should have no power to rule any views out of court. Post should not vanish but rather the text only should be edited and modding reason briefly given.

Did you actually expect them not to.

Grendel wrote on Jan 14^th, 2009 at 10:18pm:

Moderation of the Muslim section is a disgrace and does not provide a level playing field to all posters. Posts are being deleted or modified then lies are being posted about why such action was taken. Posters who dissent are then threatened with banning and any attempt by them to prove the fairness of what they said or the dishonesty of the Moderators through reposting is deleted.

This is too spooky..

It sounds like the way the Multiculturalism and Race board is run....

It might help your case if you whined about the way that was run too Beo..but seeing as how it only happens to pple  on Donalds boards..whom Donald doesnt like thats ok hey.

You wonder why noone cares about your situation, because you are one sided and one eyed..you only care about yourself.

Selfish.     >:(

pope urban 2 wrote on Jan 14^th, 2009 at 10:35pm:

Did you actually expect them not to.

Funnily enough, I did. The Speaker in parliament does not participate in the debate. A boxing referee does not participate in the biffo.

Not all moderators have a sense of fair play and some can too easily be tempted into becoming the Napoleans and Snowballs on their own little farms.

Fight your own battles Ogly like I fight mine.

Abu is a disgrace.
he deleted and modded stuff I wrote then lied why it was necessary, libelling me in the process then treatening to ban me.

Now that's not whining, thats exposing unfair and devious behavior which should not be tolerated.

I wouldn't vote "yes" because I like to see them for what they are. Anything they have any control over becomes an Islamic state.

But seeing that you've gone running to the mods because I called you BO, I don't think that you're the one to talk.
..and I've little doubt about who was doing the brunt of the complaing to the Cracker mods either.

Quote:

Anything they have any control over becomes an Islamic state.

You really are a goose Amadd. For a start, one of the moderators in the Islamic forum is a non-Muslim, she's also a female. Both big no-no's for an Islamic state. For an atheist, you're quite an extremist... I thought atheists were meant to be logical?

Gee Amadd years of you calling me names you really think it actually worries me?
This isn't about you or lestat or childish name calling...  it's about public dishonesty and the right to be a moderator.
Soren is right if you Mod you shouldn't post.
Not that that would stop unfair and biased moderation.

As for you Abu have you restored my post?
Have you deleted your lies?
Where's my apology?

I bet you didn't discuss your actions with the other moderator and if you did then she  had dropped yet another level in my opinion of her.  But I doubt she'd have such poor English skills to agree with your interpretation of what I said and despite her biased spin I doublt she'd be that dishonest.

yes, we are aware of islams sexist biased stance abu.
what else could we expect from mohammad ??

I had a post deleted from there yesterday, must have offended them, whats new.

Quote:

Moderation of the Muslim section is biased.

As i have expressed previously on the Oz Pol board,

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1226668280/62#62

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1226668280/63#63

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1226668280/65#65

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1226668280/68#68

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1226668280/91#91


I have no objection to a 'moderator' having a bias, and expressing that bias.

What i object to is when a moderator will censor others on a board, so that others are precluded from expressing an opposing bias.

Such a circumstance is not debate, or conducive to free and open debate.



If a particular person describes views, or presents information which is truly 'offensive', shouldn't others be exposed to those views, so that they understand what kind of person we have here?

How else are ppl to form opinions, except by being exposed to such information?





Quote:

"Open societies do not fear the opinions of fools. ....they rather, EXPOSE and laugh at folly! In any free and open debate, if a 'position' is absurd, if an 'argument' is absurd, ...then the debater is [often] condemned to all, WITH HIS OWN WORDS. And that result [i.e. the exposure of folly] is THE VERY FUNCTION, of free and open debate. Free and open debate *is meant* to be A CONTEST OF IDEAS! ....where every folly is revealed. And open debate is healthy, to all general freedoms in a society."

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1226668280/62#62




+++++++++





The dangers we face today, are actually being promoted, by the very persons and institutions that we consider 'gatekeepers' of our rights and freedoms.


Quote:

"January 14, 2009 NY Daily News: United Nations tries to outlaw criticism of Islam! An ominous initiative that we have discussed many times here -- the UN's efforts to silence those who call attention to the ways in which Islamic jihadists use the texts and teachings of Islam to justify their actions and make recruits -- gets attention in, of all places, the New York Daily News. "UN-acceptable censorship: The United Nations tries to outlaw criticism of Islam," by Floyd Abrams for the Daily News, January 14"

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/024395.php

Quote:

Gee Amadd years of you calling me names you really think it actually worries me?

Well, I do get the distinct impression that it does bother you, considering that for the few times I've bothered to speak to you here, you've complained twice to mods about  me using the term "BO" which is just short for "Beowulf" anyway. If it happens to smell a little also, then so be it.

Amadd wrote on Jan 14^th, 2009 at 11:28pm:

I wouldn't vote "yes" because I like to see them for what they are. Anything they have any control over becomes an Islamic state......

Ammad,

Or even Amadd,

I have to agree with you here.

Shine that LIGHT, into the darkness!

Grendel wrote on Jan 15^th, 2009 at 6:42am:

As for you Abu..... I bet you didn't discuss your actions with the other moderator and if you did then she  had dropped yet another level in my opinion of her.  But I doubt she'd have such poor English skills to agree with your interpretation of what I said and despite her biased spin I doublt she'd be that dishonest.

Grendel,

You are WRONG!

"Females are mentally defective."

N.B.
These are NOT my views, this is what ISLAM teaches [its own], and what is taught today in many mosques by many Imam's.

Google the words.

Grendel wrote on Jan 14^th, 2009 at 11:19pm:

Fight your own battles Ogly like I fight mine.

He says as he sets up a thread to get others to fight his battles for him..your funny boof..

And if mods shouldnt participate on their own boards that would the bulk of Trumps posts GONE!! lol.

Leave the Muslim mods alone. They are intelligent and can see thru your crappola...

really and who is figting my battles Ogly one?

I have a poll running which any fair minded person would have to vote yes...  and I have outlined the dismal behaviour of the Mod involved.

Seems I'm doing my own thing Ogly and I see no reason not to publicly out the bastard.  Since he feels he can libel people and stop them from telling the truth when he lies about them.

WHERE'S MY APOLOGY ABU...  IT BETTER BE A PUBLIC ONE.

Grendel wrote on Jan 15^th, 2009 at 11:13am:

really and who is figting my battles Ogly one? I have a poll running which any fair minded person would have to vote yes... OH REALLY?    :-?  and I have outlined the dismal behaviour of the Mod involved. Seems I'm doing my own thing Ogly and I see no reason not to publicly out the bastard. Since he feels he can libel people and stop them from telling the truth when he lies about them. WHERE'S MY APOLOGY ABU...  IT BETTER BE A PUBLIC ONE.

 ;D

Grendel wrote on Jan 15^th, 2009 at 11:13am:

WHERE'S MY APOLOGY ABU...  IT BETTER BE A PUBLIC ONE.

Grendel,

You do know, that holding your breath can be fatal?

Well thanks for that OGLY gives me the opportunity to ask one more time.

ABU you liar.... where's my apology.

good luck grendel.

a muslim apologising to an infidel !!!! that'ld be rare.

There is an Islamic guys blog, where he posts horror pictures of injured, and dead, babies and small children, then provides anecdotal evidence of Israeli soldiers laughing about killing Palestinian kids, you know the sort of stuff they relish.
Anyway, he has a comments section, which is full of things like "Kill all the Zionist pigs", "Israelis are all war criminals", "May Allah bring victory to the brave Palestinian freedom fighters", and more along those lines, so I took the trouble to register, so I could post a comment, which was very moderately worded, along the lines of, how all decent people hate seeing civilians, and especially children suffer, but how can you ignore the responsibility that Hamas must accept for their part in the conflict?

I got an email saying my comment was unacceptable as Zionist hate speech.

I have to wonder what planet these loonies are from, when they can be so hypocritical in their judgement.
Islamists are very sensitive to even the mildest criticism, whilst wildly intemperate in their own vilifications of anything they perceive as not praiseworthy promoting Islam, and that is bigotry and bias writ large.

[Islamists are very sensitive to even the mildest criticism,]

But jews arn't,ha ha ha ha

Actually, they're nowhere near as sensitive as muslims from my experience.
I've chatted on a lot of Jewish and muslim forums with a bee in my bonnet over the years, and I always got some good conversation from the Jewish and always got banned from the muslim forums.

mozzaok and amadd - that has been my experience of muslims.
On the net or in life.
They are intolerant, arrogant and often really ugly.

You are so right skippy...  they have that self-deprecating sense of humour that most of their comedians eschew.

Great idea for a new thread, Skippy can start with the great Islamic comedians, and I will start with the Jews.

We can see who takes longer, you actually finding any, or me listing them all. ;)

http://www.fugly.com/videos/5224/muslim_comedians.html

There you go, I'll even give you a kick start, they aern't exactly Seinfeld, but I raised a smile from them, it's not a laugh, but it's a start.

Seriously, when a culture displays the ability to laugh at itself, it is displaying a sense of identity that is strong enough to not be easliy shaken, and Islam certainly needs to do that, they are just soooooo touchy.

It's obvious Grendel is narrow in his thinking at times and perhaps even Sprintcyclist has been known to sometimes have an aversion to some groups of people - but Mozzaok and Amadd - what a huge disappointment.

You've been brainwashed by the RW media - owned by none other than Murdoch, who is behind much of this propaganda.  

Are you all very disappointed that Obama is going to be the new President - never mind - Bush senior is prepping is younger son Jethro for the next election.  Maybe some of the old neo-conservatives will still be around to back him, although with some luck most of them will be in gaol by then.

Unfortunately Mantra, it is you who are the one who has fallen for believing that you can categorise the Islam issue along old left vs right ideologies.
What is most disappointing, is that merely because they position themselves as allies against the neocons, you are prepared to overlook their appalling behaviours, and their atrocious human rights record, some are not that restricted in their thinking.

Islam has no more right to be considered as freedom fighters, or champions of the old left wing ideology, of striving for the common good, than the likes of Stalin did.
Sure he opposed the excesses of the west, but he was still a monster.

mantra

Quote:

and perhaps even Sprintcyclist has been known to be prejudice

mantr - "has been known to ........ " come on. I feel disappointed.
What about "Is a dyed in the wool........", "The worst of the worst ........"

Those that are not as lefty as you will always disappoint you.
We also make the tough decisions and get it right.
that's probably disappointing also.

Sprintcyclist it wasn't meant to offend you - and perhaps I used the wrong word.  We've all got character traits (I don't want to know mine though) and I couldn't think of any other description.  Maybe I should have said - aversion to certain groups of people.  Hope that sounds better.

I'm quite comfortable with your terms for me dear mantra.

:) ;) ;)

Mantra, you owe it to yourself to make the time to watch the BBC documentary, "The Power Of Nightmares" subtitled, "The Rise Of The Politics Of Fear".

Here is a link to the wikipoedia page about this highly acclaimed documentary, which will give you a precis as well as some opinions of it's worth as an unbiased, balanced study of the separate rises of Neo_Conservatism, and Islamism, and how they each play on peoples' fears.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares

It does not demonise anyone, or seek to create any further hatred and division, it really justs gives an accurate historical background and exploration of these powerful ideologies which are at the root of so many of the world's current problems.

I realise you think I have been brainwashed by western media, but that is absolutely wrong, I gather little to zero information from those traditional sources, and view them with the same degree of suspicion which I always have.
In saying that, I should point out that neither do I dismiss something reported in the media as necessarily wrong, or biased, by mere dint of it being there.

So do yourself a favour, and watch this series, it is pretty long, and at times slow, but it is very balanced, and very informative.
If you do decide you want to watch it, there are links to it from the wiki page.

Yes I will Mozzaok - I've saved the link and will have a look a bit later.  I have read a fair bit on the history going back 60 years to the Israel occupation and many of the people who have powerful fundamentalist leanings to not only preserve, but expand Israel and the tactics they have used to get their own way.  There are also the connections between the Israel lobby and Washington and the bribing of non Jewish Defence Ministers over the last couple of decades.  

Don't assume that Hamas became terrorists for the specific reason of creating bloodshed.  It may be their doctrine now, but obviously they want retribution for the many massacres on their people and the ejection of them from land which was legally theirs under the original mandate.

Good on you Mantra, I think you will find it very interesting.

Contrary to many people's ideas, one can strongly oppose Neo-Conservatism, as well as Islamism, and to my mind, should.

We also have the issue of Zionism, which is also a source of much that is wrong in the world, and one can oppose Zionism as well as Islamism also, it is not always a case of my enemies enemies, are my friends.

I appreciate that you are just trying to be tolerant and fair, but I have decided that some things do not deserve our tolerance, and for me Islamism falls into that category.

As always, I do not lump all muslims as evil Islamists, but unfortunately, far too many tolerate, or even support Islaist extremism, who would normally not support any violent, extremist views.

mantra  ROTFLMAO

gee look at the turn around in that poll...  

Funny it basically states that a dishonest mod should not remain a mod yet now people like that idea.

ogly!!!!!!  you been foolin' with polls again?

Just thought I'd better cast my vote  ;D

Did it occur to you Grendel that the majority posting here believe that Abu is fair?  Just because some us are used to your comments, doesn't mean that others won't take offence.

I can see the numbers in favour of Abu climbing......  :D

Maybe Grendel should've rephrased the question.

I like to see Abu's antics out of a need to know the truth about our muslim "friends", and also a touch of morbid curiousity.

Grendel wrote on Jan 15^th, 2009 at 5:45pm:

mantra  ROTFLMAO gee look at the turn around in that poll...   Funny it basically states that a dishonest mod should not remain a mod yet now people like that idea. ogly!!!!!!  you been foolin' with polls again?

excuse me you put the poll up..not me even tho I voted , well not in your favour... ::)

I do understand its not the result you wanted tho'..

Quote:

I like to see Abu's antics out of a need to know the truth about our muslim "friends", and also a touch of morbid curiousity.

I can't even understand why Grendel's complaining, he only had one or two posts deleted - who cares.  It's not as if he put hours of work into each one.

mantra wrote on Jan 15^th, 2009 at 6:44pm:

Quote: I like to see Abu's antics out of a need to know the truth about our muslim "friends", and also a touch of morbid curiousity. I can't even understand why Grendel's complaining, he only had one or two posts deleted - who cares.  It's not as if he put hours of work into each one.

mantra..excuse me ..do you know how long it takes to type "lol"? and "rotflamao"?


::)

I realise you are just joking, and it is a bit of fun to have a go at grendel, but there is a serious issue being discussed here, whether you agree or not.

All of us who do not agree with everything in Islam being praiseworthy, are likely to have had posts deleted, sometimes we expected it, but more often did not.

When I chose to insult Lestat, I fully expected the posts to be deleted, and that is not what I am taking issue with.

When I criticise an aspect of Islam, that I find offensive, or questionable, and do not use any personal insults, or bad language, which you all know I very rarely do anyway, to then have that post just disappear, because it is not respectful to Islam, then that is a problem.

If it were not an aspect I did not respect, I would not be raising it in the first place, so to reserve the right, used arbitrarily, to protect Islams good name, makes a joke of being able to frankly discuss our opinions on the forum at all.

Now I will add that it has not been a huge issue for me, and I generally word my posts more moderately than some, but I think the principle of freedom of speech is important, and I also think Abu has been more open to allowing criticism lately, than he was earlier on, but still, if we have anything we think may be considered controversial to say about Islam, we use another board, because we know that it will disappear from Islam, or Extremism Exposed.

That is not an ideal situation.

I've asked Abu & Gaybriel some anti-Muslim questions in the past and they haven't been censored or deleted.  He and Gaybriel have answered quite honestly as far as I know.

So Mozzaok - you have made polite and enquiring comments about negative aspects of Islam and you've had them deleted?  I haven't noticed - I'm sorry, but if it's true there must have been an explanation.

mozzaok wrote on Jan 15^th, 2009 at 7:03pm:

I realise you are just joking, and it is a bit of fun to have a go at grendel, but there is a serious issue being discussed here, whether you agree or not. All of us who do not agree with everything in Islam being praiseworthy, are likely to have had posts deleted, sometimes we expected it, but more often did not. When I chose to insult Lestat, I fully expected the posts to be deleted, and that is not what I am taking issue with. When I criticise an aspect of Islam, that I find offensive, or questionable, and do not use any personal insults, or bad language, which you all know I very rarely do anyway, to then have that post just disappear, because it is not respectful to Islam, then that is a problem. If it were not an aspect I did not respect, I would not be raising it in the first place, so to reserve the right, used arbitrarily, to protect Islams good name, makes a joke of being able to frankly discuss our opinions on the forum at all. Now I will add that it has not been a huge issue for me, and I generally word my posts more moderately than some, but I think the principle of freedom of speech is important, and I also think Abu has been more open to allowing criticism lately, than he was earlier on, but still, if we have anything we think may be considered controversial to say about Islam, we use another board, because we know that it will disappear from Islam, or Extremism Exposed. That is not an ideal situation.

Is Abu seriously doing that?

If so, he should add these sentences to his riot act:

"Please enjoy your stay. Oh, and by the way, there will be no debate on the Islam board. Only nice things should be said about Islam, because I'm trying to give it a positive image. What do you think this is? A political forum or something?"

Seriously though, if anyone has a problem with Abu's moderation, just post something on the extremism board, because we know how unbiased Gaybriel is with Islam just post on either 'thinking globally' or 'general.'

Quote:

- but Mozzaok and Amadd - what a huge disappointment.

Jeez Mantra, you put through a lot of posts! I had to go back a long way to find that comment again.


Anyway, yes I believe that there's a lot of propaganda that goes on in the media, and I love a good conspiracy as much as the next person (probably more), but I'm not about go around thinking that everything that Hamas is doing and has done is just made up lies. It's not.

Also, I like to think of myself as being fairly non-judgmental as far as race goes and fairly tolerant to different beliefs, but some of the comments and downright lies that I've heard from the muslim quarters are just something that I can never see as being accepted by mainstream Australia - and I hope they never are.
Islam will never fit into our current value system. They must change.

I can't speak for Mozz, but I get the feeling that his limits of tolerance have also been reached with some stark realizations and reading between the lines of certain comments lately. I can't really point them out, but for me, it is just a feeling of "OMG, there's really not much hope for tolerance and understanding here".

Getting back to the war. Yes I agree that Israel have also acted badly over the years, but the actions of Islamic terrorists are beyond evil. They will never accept Israel on "so called" Arab soil. Never have, and they never will as long as they continue to brainwash themselves with a 1400 yr old religion which contains 1400 yr old war doctrines.
So they've got two choices, accept it and get over it, or continue to die for a figment of the imagination.

I'm not so much pro-Israel as I am anti-barbaric behavior.
There's been enough examples posted on these threads even just recently to point out who the barbarians are, and they must be destroyed IMO.
It seems to me that Israel are doing the best that they can to weed out the ones which need to be destroyed - for now, but no doubt there will be more to take their place in the future, in the name of Allah of course.

Islamic extremists will always be able to get plenty of malleable suckers to blow themselves up.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=PPU4UN03t7E&feature=related

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=22XEkJY62VA


Quote:

Are you all very disappointed that Obama is going to be the new President

No, I'm really happy about it. But like I said before, I wouldn't be expecting
a softened stance against terrorist groups - well I hope not anyway.

I hhate to tell you guys...  
But as Mozz stated this is an important topic.

It's not about who you like or who's Islamic or not.

It's about moderation and people lying.

You cant have a moderator delete posts or mod posts then lie about why they did it and then defame/slander/libel the person they did it to.  
They cannot be allowed to hide proof of what was said then lie about it.
They cannot be allowed to threaten you with banning to shut you up.

SO ABU...  RESTORE MY POST ...APOLOGIZE FOR LYING ABOUT ME... AND HAND IN YOUR MODERATORS HAT.

Well I complained early on about having posts deleted, and FD wants the mods to take care of their own boards.
So, like I told Abu when he threatened to ban me, I don't really care, I'll just post elsewhere.

Maybe you could put in a "muzzled comments" thread on the General forum or something to keep track of who is doing the deleting and why.

amadd - hahahahha, thanks for that golden comedy, Very good !!!


Quote:

Islam will never fit into our current value system. They must change.

Abus displayed islamic traits quite well

Quote:

Are you all very disappointed that Obama is going to be the new President

Sadly, I think he was better than McCain. Is McCain the best Republican they could find?

I think that he seems clueless about a lot of world events, but it may just be a feint. Let's see what he does once in.

He couldnt do any worse. At the moment we have 2 wars that cost trillions and appear not to have 'won' very much. We have an economy that is going into depression. That's right - Depression, not recession. A bankrupt Federal government. Clueless apologism about Islam (that wont change, will get worse for sure).

Quote:

At the moment we have 2 wars that cost trillions and appear not to have 'won' very much. We have an economy that is going into depression. That's right - Depression, not recession. A bankrupt Federal government. Clueless apologism about Islam (that wont change, will get worse for sure).

Yes Calanen - so who's responsible for this - certainly not the Muslims?  How many years have we been in Afghanistan now, still hunting and hunting for the mythical Bin Laden - or was that only an excuse?  The US were told that invading Afghanistan would be fruitless and pointless - if the Russians had to retreat, what made the US & allies think they could do any better?

And the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq?  Whose idea was it?  Who supplied Saddam with weapons and helped him gain the power he ultimately achieved?  We all know now that Iraq's possession of WMD was a lie.

It's all been a farce and as far as a depression goes - yes - but then which country has helped send the rest of the world broke?

Who was Australia best friends with and which PM signed an FTA with the US?  We owe them billions thanks to the US getting the more lucrative deal.  You have to wonder where Howard's loyalty really lay or was he just stupid?  

So mantra is a lying dishonest manipualtive moderator acceptable?

Oh and BTW Bin laden is only a small part of why "we" are in Afghanistan  (at the request of its government).

As for your distorted view of the world reality...  how many times over how many years do people have to tell you?

Its a well known fact that hussein wanted Iraq to be a Nuclear power and was trying to achieve that and only the UN sanctions etc put a kink in that preoccupation.

We knew they had WMDs...  firstly because the US had supplied him with some.

We know he was lying and hiding things he sanctioned against having.  The UN group found missiles prohibited to Iraq in Iraq.

Etc, etc, etc...  do get a life and educate yourself and stop boring us with crap.

good grief...  Howard again...  and yes mantra...  what other party backed that decision?  hmmm... yes it was labor it was a bipartisan decision...  give me a break.

Grendel - have I told you this year that you are an idiot?  Hmmm -  where have I heard that line before?

I'm so polite that I probably haven't - so I'll say it now - YOU ARE AN IDIOT and most of the stuff you write is rubbish and if you want a poll on it now - I'll start a thread and put one up - "Is Grendel an IDIOT?"

Stop with the insults or I will go ahead with my threats.

Go for it...  water off a ducks back.

What insults... ? (No insults in that post mantra)
Pointing out you believe rubbish and make stupid comments is nothing new.
Other people do it and I'm certainly not going to stop or post lies just so you can feel good.

You call pointing out the truth insults now  ROTFLMAO