After having another little spat with Grendel - I looked up some information on the web about Christianity and sex - particularly pornography and lust.

It is interesting that those who call themselves good Christians are not listening to the word of God.  Does this make Christian men who lust over women they aren't married to and masturbate over pictures of naked girls hypocritical?  This is exactly what Muslims are accused of.

Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with adult pornography for those who are into it,  but then true Christian men should be obeying the word of God by keeping themselves clean before accusing others of being dirty.

I might have got the testaments mixed up but what difference does it make anyway?


Matthew 5:28 "If a man looks on a woman to lust after her, he has committed adultery with her already in his heart."

Psalm 101:3 "I will set no unclean thing before my eyes."

Philippians 4:7, 8 "Keep your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus... Whatsover things are pure... if there be any virtue... think on these things."

Ephesians 5:5 "For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God."

1 Timothy 1:10 "For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine"

Hebrews 13:4 "Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge."

Revelation 21:8 "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

Revelation 22:15 "For without are dog, and sorcerers, and
whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."

Many lustful sins take place in the dark, in secret, but nothing is hid from God:

Hebrews 4:13 "All things are naked and opened to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do."

Numbers 32:23 "Be sure your sin will find you out."

More serious than other sins?

Pornography seems more disgusting than other evils.

1 Corinthians 6:18 "Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. "

1 Corinthians 6:18-20 "What? Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you ...? therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's."

mantra wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2009 at 10:49am:

After having another little spat with Grendel - I looked up some information on the web about Christianity and sex - particularly pornography and lust. It is interesting that those who call themselves good Christians are not listening to the word of God.  Does this make Christian men who lust over women they aren't married to and masturbate over pictures of naked girls hypocritical?  This is exactly what Muslims are accused of.

mantra,

I believe that the issue of sexual lust, has more to do with 'the nature of the beast', so to speak.

i.e. MEN.

It seems that 99% of all humans, and perhaps particularly more so, men, have very strong sexual urges.

I don't condemn muslim men for having strong sexual urges, any more, than their counterparts, non-muslim men.

But i think what upsets many ppl / observers of 'human nature', is the hypocrisy of some groups of ppl [whether they be muslims or non-muslims] who portray themselves as 'pristine', or not like other 'lustful men'.





Galatians 5:17
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18  But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19  Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20  Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21  Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23  Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.



John 8:41
Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42  Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43  Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Quote:

I believe that the issue of sexual lust, has more to do with 'the nature of the beast', so to speak. i.e. MEN. It seems that 99% of all humans, and perhaps particularly more so, men, have very strong sexual urges. I don't condemn muslim men for having strong sexual urges, any more, than their counterparts, non-muslim men. But i think what upsets many ppl / observers of 'human nature', is the hypocrisy of some groups of ppl [whether they be muslims or non-muslims] who portray themselves as 'pristine', or not like other 'lustful men'.

Well said Yadda.  I am glad you included non-Muslims as well in your comments.  So in actual fact most males who preach devotion to their religion are hypocrites when it comes to matters of the body and the spirit?  

How can a devout religious person hate anyone and isn't forgiveness the first request God makes of those who desire his guidance?

We accuse others of lying about their motives, deeds and hatred of other religions - yet those making the accusations are doing exactly that.

The passage you quoted is very profound Yadda and practising Christians need to continually remind themselves of the words.  No matter what God you believe in - the laws of your religion tell you to show love to your brothers, regardless of their colour or creed?  


Quote:

For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18  But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19  Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20  Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21  Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23  Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Quote:

So in actual fact most males who preach devotion to their religion are hypocrites when it comes to matters of the body and the spirit?

That depends on what they actually say.

Quote:

So in actual fact most males who preach devotion to their religion are hypocrites when it comes to matters of the body and the spirit? That depends on what they actually say

What about what they actually "do"?  Or doesn't that count because it's done secretly?  

Yes, it depends on what they do and say.

I'ld agree with you there mantra.

Whacking off is not really a spiritual thing to do. :-)

Hope i never gave you the impression I was one who " who call themselves good Christians ...."

Just like the guy who caught his son enjoying his shower a bit too much.
When the dad told him to stop it, the boy said, it is his dick, and he will wash it as fast as he wants to. ;D

Mantra, your point is valid only for those who put themselves up on a moral pedestal, in the name of their religion.
We see a bit of this with evangelists caught in brothels, or in public toilets, whilst proclaiming moral standards for the rest of society, that they do not adhere to themselves, and they represent a very small proportion of christians, most are pretty much accepting of modern moral norms.

So mantra who are these people who go round calling themselves good christians and by what measure do you doubt them?

I gather they need to be saints for you to call them good.  ;D ;D ;D

You really don't want me to explain in context all those quotes do you mantra?

Or should I just point out that God created man and Woman in all their nakedness and they were not unclean.

Oh and nor is it necessary for a man to look at a naked woman and feel the urge to masturbate.  :D

Good thing you are not a man...  they'd have to lock you up.

Oh and mantra...

Quote:

1. God created sex to be ENJOYED. Sex was intended for pleasure. But (and here is God's limitation) sexual pleasure is always to happen within the proper context: a man and a woman who have committed their lives together in marriage. 2. THERE IS NO COMMANDMENT in the Bible regarding masturbation. In spite of what you thought I might say, I AM NOT SAYING THAT MASTURBATION IS WRONG. The Bible doesn't say that. In the absence of a clear command from God, we must always be careful of creating condemnation where God never intended it.

Oh and one final (I hope) thing...  a man can look at a woman and recognise her beauty and appreciate her beauty or even her sexuality...  but...  that doesn't mean he actually lusts after her.

Quote:

Whacking off is not really a spiritual thing to do. Hope i never gave you the impression I was one who " who call themselves good Christians ...."

Well I know you can always be relied on for your honesty Sprintcyclist, but you are not a bad Christian, perhaps a slightly imperfect one striving for perfection.   :)


Quote:

Mantra, your point is valid only for those who put themselves up on a moral pedestal, in the name of their religion. We see a bit of this with evangelists caught in brothels, or in public toilets, whilst proclaiming moral standards for the rest of society, that they do not adhere to themselves, and they represent a very small proportion of christians, most are pretty much accepting of modern moral norms.

Exactly Mozzaok, although I'm not sure about those who are hypocritical only representing a small proportion of Christians.  It seems that a vast number of them are just that.


Quote:

I gather they need to be saints for you to call them good.

Definitely and I don't think there are any Saints left, so therefore don't expect such a high standard of "truth" from those of other persuasions.  You're certainly not one.   ::)


Quote:

You really don't want me to explain in context all those quotes do you mantra? Or should I just point out that God created man and Woman in all their nakedness and they were not unclean.

Have you been to Bible School Grendel?  Are you in a position to explain all those "quotes"?  You would only interpret them the way you believe they should be interpreted or were taught - in exactly the same way that Muslims and Jews rely on the interpretations of others to preach their philosophies.


Quote:

Oh and nor is it necessary for a man to look at a naked woman and feel the urge to masturbate.

Isn't it - that's news to me, unless of course he's a eunuch, impotent or gay or the woman is physically unattractive.


Quote:

Good thing you are not a man...  they'd have to lock you up.

What's that supposed to mean?  I have no interest in pornography or perversions and never have.  Don't judge everyone by your own standards Grendel.i

IMO you are a sad pathetic individual.
Not only by trying to snipe at me but in trying to use such a flawed premise as an apology for Muslim behaviour.


I note...  it is not Christians who look at women as uncovered meat or who have so little self control that partial nudity sets them off.

I suggest you start wearing a burkah.

Oh and I'd appreciate it if in your pathetic bitterness you didn't lie about me.  
Have I been to BIBLE SCHOOL...  yes... and I even considered studying Theology.

You can dish it out Grendel - but you can't take it.  Take it in good humour the way I meant it to be.

Good humour....  you are either a liar or have no clue as to what funny is.

On both counts you'd make a good Muslim.

"I'm not Christian. But I want to tell Christians how to act and think I know their religion better then do. --mantra"

freediver wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2009 at 1:00pm:

Quote: So in actual fact most males who preach devotion to their religion are hypocrites when it comes to matters of the body and the spirit? That depends on what they actually say.

FD,

I would have expressed that slightly differently.

"That depends on what they actually say  do ."


Nobody has to act on their lust.

You can choose to turn away from it.

People can choose to act according to how they believe that they should act.
....or even [now here is a novel concept!   ;)  ] decide to act in a way, in which they know they would want others to act, towards themselves.



As far as sex goes, we can choose to act as an animal would act [driven by its instinct, seeking our own pleasure], or we can act as thinking, reasoning, beings.

Why do you think that rape is so prevalent in our society ???

Is it because today, many people, without a second thought, act selfishly, merely thinking of their own pleasure?

Why do so many ppl within our society today believe that, that morality [acting selfishly] is OK?

Why is it, today, that for some reason, for many ppl, ethics count for so little?

Dictionary,
ethics = =
1 [usu. treated as pl.] the moral principles governing or influencing conduct.
2 [usu. treated as sing.] the branch of knowledge concerned with moral principles.


If you are in a shop, and you notice that the shop assistant has made a mistake in the change [in your favour], you don't have to walk out of the shop with that money which is not yours.

You can choose to point out the error to the shop assistant.



Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?



p.s.

I have made many moral mistakes in my life.

And i'm sure that i still do.

But today, because i fear God, i try to act as though God is always looking over my shoulder.

Will God forgive me for my mistakes [past, present, and future]?

That is his promise, to those who repent.

Dictionary,
repent = = feel or express sincere regret or remorse. Ø (repent oneself of) archaic feel regret or penitence about.

I ask him to forgive me, every day.

I don't believe, so much as already know, that God is just, and that is enough for me.
....i.e. If i know that God is just, what do i have to complain about?

God is true and just.

mantra wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2009 at 12:53pm:

The passage you quoted is very profound Yadda and practising Christians need to continually remind themselves of the words.  No matter what God you believe in - the laws of your religion tell you to show love to your brothers, regardless of their colour or creed?   Quote: For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18  But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19  Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20  Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21  Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23  Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

mantra,

That is true.

[Love, seeking 'the good', for the other person.]

I just hope that in those words, you are not confusing 'show love to your brothers, regardless of their colour or creed', with a need for the tolerance, of what is clearly evil?

Because, i don't believe that the nature of love can in any way be construed to include any tolerance of evil.

The nature of evil, is contrary to the essence, and the expression of love.

Yet today, it seems very difficult for many to comprehend, that,
.....TOLERANCE OF EVIL, IS NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH COMPASSION, OR LOVE.





"Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil."
Thomas Mann
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Thomas_Mann




"And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good - need we ask anyone to tell us these things?"
Zen And The Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance
Robert M Pirsig




Can love also mean rebuking those who are [perhaps ignorantly] clearly doing, or promoting, evil?

Why not?

And to state it clearly, i don't hate muslims, i believe that they are deceived.

I hate ISLAM, for its lies, its deception, and its violence.

ISLAM is pure EVIL.

And speaking TRUTH is not 'hatred'.




++++++




Psalms 34:14
Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it.


Proverbs 8:13
The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.


Psalms 5:5
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
6  Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing [deceit]: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.


Psalms 7:11
God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.


Psalms 11:4
The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.
5  The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.


Titus 2:15
These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.


Hebrews 1:9
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.


Romans 12:9
Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

Quote:

That is true. [Love, seeking 'the good', for the other person.] I just hope that in those words, you are not confusing 'show love to your brothers, regardless of their colour or creed', with a need for the tolerance, of what is clearly evil? Because, i don't believe that the nature of love can in any way be construed to include any tolerance of evil. The nature of evil, is contrary to the essence, and the expression of love. Yet today, it seems very difficult for many to comprehend, that, .....TOLERANCE OF EVIL, IS NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH COMPASSION, OR LOVE.

Yes Yadda - you make a lot of sense and you are obviously a devout Christian, but you do show intolerance to all Muslims when there is only a minority that are violent.  You believe a lot of the propaganda you read and maybe before you judge one group of people so harshly, you should dig a little deeper and try to understand the reasons they behave the way they do.

Can't you judge people individually on their merits?


Quote:

"I'm not Christian. But I want to tell Christians how to act and think I know their religion better then do. --mantra"

Jim you have no idea what you're talking about, nor the reason for this thread being put up.

ROTFLMAO

I don't hate any Muslims, nor do I hate Islam mantra.
That doesn't mean I am ignorant of it and the ramifications of the actions and beliefs of many of its adherents.

Your problem is you think many is a harmless minority.

You are ignorant and self-deluded.

mantra wrote on Feb 4^th, 2009 at 6:35am:

Yes Yadda - you make a lot of sense and you are obviously a devout Christian, but you do show intolerance to all Muslims when there is only a minority that are violent.  You believe a lot of the propaganda you read and maybe before you judge one group of people so harshly, you should dig a little deeper and try to understand the reasons they behave the way they do. Can't you judge people individually on their merits?

mantra,

More of the 'propaganda' against muslims / ISLAM.....



http://www.uepengland.com/webimages/hatedemo1.jpg
THE 'GOODNESS' OF ISLAM, ON DISPLAY
/sarc off

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/20060203BritishMuslims02.jpg
THE 'GOODNESS' OF ISLAM, ON DISPLAY
/sarc off


http://www.middle-east-info.org/gateway/islamvsinfidels/beheadthosewhoinsultislam.gif
Christian schoolgirl Indonesia - Muslim protester London

Of course, the Muslim protester holding the placard in London, doesn't really mean it.
Its just a joke, right?
/sarc off




mantra,

People like yourself may suggest, or call me, a hate monger, or a bigot, or a 'racist'.

I speak and expose the TRUTH about ISLAM, and myself, and others like me, are vilified by supposedly 'moderate' muslims and their friends.

Muslims need to hold up a mirror, to themselves.

Muslims need to examine, what is in their own hearts.



mantra,

Be assured....

THERE ARE NO MODERATE MUSLIMS.

A MODERATE MUSLIM, IS A KUFFAR! [this is not according to me. but according to ISLAM's 'holy' texts].

NOTHING ABOUT ISLAM IS 'MODERATE',
....ISLAM IS A DEATH CULT.




+++++++++

Dear muslim, YOU are the kuffar, YOU are the unbeliever.

You who embrace ISLAM, your own lies and deception, have become a witness against you, before God.

You muslims insist that ONLY muslims are the 'properly guided'.

Is he who is on a path of lies and deception, 'properly guided'??

AN EXPLANATION OF THE WORD 'KUFFAR'...

"kuffar" = = "...is an Arabic word meaning.....[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuffar



"Dear muslim, YOU are the kuffar"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1229682951/0#0

Quote:

Exactly Mozzaok, although I'm not sure about those who are hypocritical only representing a small proportion of Christians.  It seems that a vast number of them are just that.

Mantra, before you can justifiably label someone a hypocrit, you must first know what they say, what they do, and that it is contradictory. All you have done so far is make vague allusions as to what they do.


Quote:

Yes Yadda - you make a lot of sense and you are obviously a devout Christian, but you do show intolerance to all Muslims when there is only a minority that are violent.

It is Islam he is intolerant of. An ideology, not a person. Ther are plenty of Muslims who are not violent, but who believe that it would be righteous to violently overthrow our government and replace it with an Islamic dictatorship as soon as they have the power to do so. It is an ideology that teaches peace when you are losing and unending violence when you are winning.

Quote:

Mantra, before you can justifiably label someone a hypocrit, you must first know what they say, what they do, and that it is contradictory. All you have done so far is make vague allusions as to what they do.

FD I've met a lot of people in my lifetime who claim to be Christians and most of them are decidedly unchristian, particularly when it comes to their treatment of others and their own bad habits.


Quote:

It is Islam he is intolerant of. An ideology, not a person. Ther are plenty of Muslims who are not violent, but who believe that it would be righteous to violently overthrow our government and replace it with an Islamic dictatorship as soon as they have the power to do so. It is an ideology that teaches peace when you are losing and unending violence when you are winning.

Yadda does appear intolerant at times and he should have posted links to those pictures.  

What you say doesn't make sense.  If they teach peace when they are losing - why do you and others consistently talk about how violent Hamas is?

Thats really odd because I've hardly met anyone who states they are Christian.

Do you ask everybody mantra?

Personally I don't deny it but don't advertise it.

Quote:

Do you ask everybody mantra?

That's an intelligent question Grendel (not).  

I spent some time attending various churches when I was younger - looking for something I couldn't find and combined with the religious preaching I was forced to tolerate as a child "christians" in general don't present a pretty picture.  But I have met plenty since then and born agains certainly let you know that Jesus is their saviour - you don't have to ask.

I find more honesty in atheists or agnostics.

Quote:

FD I've met a lot of people in my lifetime who claim to be Christians and most of them are decidedly unchristian, particularly when it comes to their treatment of others and their own bad habits.

Perhaps you merely don't know what it means to be a Christian.


Quote:

What you say doesn't make sense.  If they teach peace when they are losing - why do you and others consistently talk about how violent Hamas is?

Hamas claimed a great victory. They are violent because they think they can achieve something with their violence. They are delusional. If they were 'good Muslims', they would wait until they were in a position to slaughter the Jews.

Quote:

Perhaps you merely don't know what it means to be a Christian.

What do you think a Christian is supposed to be like FD?

mantra wrote on Feb 4^th, 2009 at 6:25pm:

Quote: Perhaps you merely don't know what it means to be a Christian. What do you think a Christian is supposed to be like FD?

Does anyone really give a fig, FD?

I sure don't.

I don't have any special expectations of Christians. Maybe forgiveness and turning the other cheek. But I don't think they are supposed to be the 'requirements' of being a Christian. They are the benefits.

Is there any good islamic porn or is it always the case of "cat in a bag"?

yes mantra is clueless...
she doesn't even understand the basic premise iof Christianity

I asked FD what he thought a Christian should be like and he replied that they should be forgiving and turn the other cheek.  That makes sense, although I don't like the bit about turning the other cheek.


Quote:

yes mantra is clueless... she doesn't even understand the basic premise iof Christianity

So OK Mr. Expert on Christianity (and everything else) - what is the very basic premise of Christianity?

The basic premise is that Christ died for our sins mantra...  

You on the otherhand are clueless as to what a Christian is...  you think they are supposed to be perfect.  Oh dear...  then there would be no need for Christ to have died.

Quote:

The basic premise is that Christ died for our sins mantra...   You on the otherhand are clueless as to what a Christian is...  you think they are supposed to be perfect.  Oh dear...  then there would be no need for Christ to have died.

I don't think you understand yourself Grendel what the basic premise of Christianity is.

He died for our sins, yet "Christians" keep on sinning.  Isn't the most basic premise as FD pointed out - forgiveness.  We ask God to forgive us and in return we are to forgive others.

rotflmao

Do you suppose you are arguing against what I just said?

You should steer clear of topics you don't understand.

You just make yourself look foolish.

OK - more empty rhetoric from you Grendel - what else could anyone expect.  

I have never believed that there is a God, but I have taken on board a few biblical philosophies - those which I understand and are meaningful to me in my life.  I have only ever met a few "good" christians and unfortunately most have only become that way towards the end of their life.

To me a good Christian is a good person and those who are cruel, callous and indifferent, yet call themselves Christians have no understanding of why their "Lord" supposedly died for them.

God in my eyes is goodness and there is little of that coming from many self declared Christians.  

Of course no-one is perfect but by claiming you fall under a religious banner - you are declaring that you are striving to be a good person. It's a load of bulldust.

Declaring you are under any religious banner is just declaring you are of that church or religion.  You can be born into it.

If I say I'm Christian it only means I believe that Jesus was the son of God and died for my sins.  It doesn't mean I'm perfect.

Oh and I already explained the rest of that, which seems to have gone right over your head.

Who are you saying bulldust to mantra?
Who are you to judge others.
Careful of that mote.

BTW I'm sick of you beiong the obsessive bitter bitch to me...  you need to find someone else to obsess over.  Calenan has a high opinion of you try him for a while.

Your continual abuse is forcing me off this board Grendel.  If I wanted to obsess over someone - it certainly wouldn't be you.  If anything you are the one who responds to my comments.

Your nastiness is getting to me Grendel, so I'll leave you to it.  

abuse...  you are kidding.

nastiness...  oh dear, is that code for disagreeing with you?

Like many others do.

No mantra, you got the problem...  not me.
maybe I should target your religion, or intelligence or personal habits or sex life or parenting skills or...  yes the list of personal abuse is almost endless isn't it.  Want me to keep holding the mirror up oh hypocrite.

http://static.obolog.com/multimedia/fotos/46000/45785/45785-41821.jpg
Hey, my girlfriend is Christian, and she wouldn't espouse to any of this bullcrap. Why don't you worry about yourself?

You pagans are all alike. You think you're intillectual juggarnauts just cause you call yourselves a religion noone takes the time to study because who gives a crap what a bunch of overweight, hippy, dykes think?

But the truth is.. Wicca was not even founded on neo-femenist principles.

A: The guy who invented Wicca did so in 1960. Quite convient since this was the flower power age...

B: He was grotestly against homosexuals. Calling them a perversion to the goddess.

C: He was militantly prolife.

D: He detested promiscueity and hendonism.

http://thumbnails.putfile.com/images/10/1179278217129579944.jpg
If the guy who had invented Wicca were alive today everyone would just assume he was part of the Christian-right conspiracy and ignore him. Turns out nature and Pan do not take kindly to pseudo-intillectuals...

I consider myself a Satanist. Which is basically objectivism for goth and fat people.. We have tons of fun trolling objectivist forums, schooling them in being self-righteouss pricks! Why just the other day some dragqueen Satanist mopped the floor with some fat version of Hunter S. Thompson. You won't get that sortof unadulterated chaos anywhere else!

My girlfriend was a bit skepitical dating a Satanist. Untill I explained to her I have no desire to take God's place, only to be a man... her man..

And it was hurricane Katrina flood all over again in her panties lulz! I'm like something out of smacking Twilight. Why does Jim Profit sparkle?! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xffrnToC7QI

mantra wrote on Feb 4^th, 2009 at 5:12pm:

Quote: Mantra, before you can justifiably label someone a hypocrit, you must first know what they say, what they do, and that it is contradictory. All you have done so far is make vague allusions as to what they do. FD I've met a lot of people in my lifetime who claim to be Christians and most of them are decidedly unchristian, particularly when it comes to their treatment of others and their own bad habits. [quote]It is Islam he is intolerant of. An ideology, not a person. Ther are plenty of Muslims who are not violent, but who believe that it would be righteous to violently overthrow our government and replace it with an Islamic dictatorship as soon as they have the power to do so. It is an ideology that teaches peace when you are losing and unending violence when you are winning.

Yadda does appear intolerant at times and he should have posted links to those pictures.  [/quote]

Why should i have?

Perhaps, as an explanation for the rage being expressed by those muslims?


The source of the images:

I searched Google Images, for those images.




Quote:

What you say doesn't make sense.  If they teach peace when they are losing - why do you and others consistently talk about how violent Hamas is?

What FD said is very true.

ISLAM is an ideology that portrays itself as peaceful when it is losing / weak, but engages in unending merciless violence [against it 'enemies'] when it is winning / stronger.

When ISLAM is still powerless within another host culture, muslims revel in the portrayal of their own 'victimhood'.

This is a strategy of war.

It is a strategy used in war.

It is called deception.



FOR EXAMPLE, WITHIN GAZA.....

Hamas has rocket propelled grenades.

But Hamas encourages 'Palestinian' children to throw rocks at Israeli tanks.

Q.
Why don't the Hamas fighters fire those RPG's at Israeli tanks?

A.
The images of 'Palestinian' children to throwing rocks at Israeli tanks makes much better copy, on Western mainstream media, and within Western lounge rooms.




How do the Hamas fighters use those RPG's?

Hamas has fired their RPG's at internet cafes, international schools, libraries, and universities within Gaza.

Q.
Why?

A.
Because those are all places / sources of independent of information which Hamas wishes to suppress and destroy.
All un-ISLAMIC sources of information, those sources of information which could be critical of ISLAM/ muslims, are 'verbotten'.




++++++++




ELSEWHERE ON OZ POL......

As i said, the EU and the West' are dupes - to the ISLAMIC 'victim' propaganda.

But, the 'Palestinians' leadership still have enough 'sense' to shut down Internet cafes, and other sources of independent information,
KEEPING THEIR OWN PEOPLE LIVING IN IGNORANCE AND SQUALOR...


News items,

Dec. 2, 2006
Gaza women warned of immodesty
A....group calling itself the Just Swords of Islam issued a warning to Palestinian women in the Gaza Strip over the weekend that they must wear the hijab or face being targeted by the group's members.
.....The group said its followers last week threw acid at the face of a young woman who was dressed "immodestly" in the center of Gaza City.
.....the group also claimed responsibility for attacks on 12 Internet cafes over the past few days.
....."We will have no mercy on any woman who violates the traditions of Islam and who also hang out in Internet cafes."
ACCORDING TO THE GROUP, ITS MEMBERS USED ROCKET-PROPELLED GRENADES to attack 12 Internet cafes and a number of music shops in different parts of the Gaza Strip.
It said the places were targeted because they were "distracting an entire generation of Palestinians from their duty to worship [Alla] and jihad....
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1164881802888&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter


June 3, 2008
Anti-Christian 'Cleansing' Campaign Picks Up Pace in Gaza
Attacks on Christian targets and those identified with Western culture have grown more frequent in Gaza in the past two years, and especially since the Hamas takeover in June 2007, experts say. The targets have included churches, Christian and United Nations schools, the American International School, libraries and Internet cafes.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/126388

SEE....
"Israeli treatment of Palestinians"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1229690857/119#119

That first news item is disgusting....

Pity Israel didn't wipe out the lot of them

Here's the thing I don't agree with in Christianity.

Everyone thinks they can do as they will as God will forgive everything they do.

However, I think you need to feel true and total remorse for what you have done, otherwise it is just lip service.

And if you feel true remorse, guilt and perhaps shame for what you have done, then you are hardly going to be doing bad things to start with, are you?

Porn I generally have a problem with hardcore stuff that is just pure animal, it doesn't do anything for me. There is a website www.forthegirls.com, and if you look past the pinup guys and the guys solo, the videos you find can be quite a refreshing change to the hardcore stuff you find, even though it would be considered x rated.

Yeah, no one is perfect, but there's differences between naughty, bad and morally incomprehensible.

Everything you do in life you should not feel bad about, because you shouldn't consciously choose to do the wrong thing. Forgiveness isn't something you should ever have to ask for.

Quote:

Here's the thing I don't agree with in Christianity. Everyone thinks they can do as they will as God will forgive everything they do.

No that's not right at all easel...

Sorry my background is basically Catholic, which I am trying to escape from and find pure Christianity, however I was always led to believe, perhaps erroneously, that God will forgive all sins.

Quote:

However, I think you need to feel true and total remorse for what you have done, otherwise it is just lip service. And if you feel true remorse, guilt and perhaps shame for what you have done, then you are hardly going to be doing bad things to start with, are you?

Well at least you wouldn't do it a second time - but I know what you mean.


Quote:

Sorry my background is basically Catholic, which I am trying to escape from and find pure Christianity,

Pure Christianity is what a lot of people are looking for - but maybe it's the wrong term and there's another phrase for it.  Grendel says you're a Christian if you believe God died for your sins - and that might have happened, but it's hard to believe he was resurrected 3 days later.  

So by these standards as long as you believe he died on the cross - you can call yourself a Christian with no other criteria attached.

I mentioned earlier that I've come across pure Christianity on a few occasions, but these people weren't far off death - so I suppose looming death is what it takes to become a truly saint like person.

No that's not what I said at all...  are you a Catholic too?

Quote:

No that's not what I said at all...  are you a Catholic too?

No I was raised a Methodist.


Quote:

If I say I'm Christian it only means I believe that Jesus was the son of God and died for my sins.  It doesn't mean I'm perfect.

I must have misunderstood you.  ::)

See I believe in God and would call myself a Christian but I don't believe Jesus was God incarnate, as he said he was the son of man and the son of God, and was just a part of the figurehead, and we are all God's children or whatever, also if he was God he did a bad job at saving the world.

More a sacrificial lamb perhaps from an underworld group that believes in the old pagan rituals.

I try and follow Christian principles on life though, but I would mainly say it comes from within and do unto others etc and love thy neighbour are pretty broad and basic and I can't see anyone needing to be taught that.

So you don't see the difference in what you said I said and what I actually said mantra?

Quote:

So you don't see the difference in what you said I said and what I actually said mantra?

No.


Quote:

I try and follow Christian principles on life though, but I would mainly say it comes from within and do unto others etc and love thy neighbour are pretty broad and basic and I can't see anyone needing to be taught that

No people shouldn't be taught that and it's something we should all strive for - but quite a few "Christians" don't follow those basic principles - that's why I find so many religious people hypocrites.

oh dear...  there is a very major difference.

This is why you should stick to stuff you know.

Quote:

oh dear...  there is a very major difference. This is why you should stick to stuff you know.

Of course oh wise one.  I'll try and remember in the future to just stick to subjects on raising children, sewing patterns and recipes. http://bestsmileys.com/religous/1.gif

Grendel what's the point of responding if you are just going to make vague and meaningless 'accusations'? If you disagree, say why, otherwise you are just wasting everyone's time, and I know how you feel about that.


Quote:

Here's the thing I don't agree with in Christianity. Everyone thinks they can do as they will as God will forgive everything they do. However, I think you need to feel true and total remorse for what you have done, otherwise it is just lip service.

I am pretty sure that is mainstream Christianity.


Quote:

And if you feel true remorse, guilt and perhaps shame for what you have done, then you are hardly going to be doing bad things to start with, are you?

Not true for everyone. Some people genuinely change.

Don't believe me? ask Abu...  being Muslim he'd probably notice it straight away.

BTW mantra I cant help what you don't know and when I try to help all i get is crap and rudeness, from the bitter bitch of the west....  :D

It's not that we don't believe you Grendel, it's just that no-one can tell what you are on about. You shouldn't just assume people know what you really mean, despite not saying it. Try making sense.

piss off fd...  you moron...  go flame someone who cares.

Oh and if you are just stupid get an adult to explain the quotes to you.  It aint complicated English.

Sorry Grendel, did I offend you in some way?

Sometimes just your existence is offensive

Grendel - I would appreciate it if you would stop calling me a bitter bitch or any other abusive names for that matter.  I don't like it and it's not justified.  

You are what is considered an abusive male Grendel and if you were married, although fortunately no-one would have you - you would be prone to domestic violence.  
 
FD - I've written a formal complaint to Sprintcyclist about Grendel, but he hasn't been on for a few days.  Grendel is just trying to set a new low standard for this forum - is there anything that can be done about his abuse.  I'm sorry I stuck up for him at the beginning.

You are still striking up for him. What did you expect to achieve by saying he would be a wife beater?

He is pretty harmless. He goes away if you ignore him. That would be a good start.

Mental abuse comes under domestic violence.  OK I'll just ignore him.

Stop being one mantra and I'll stop having to call you one.

As for dv and the rest of your crap never happened.  Shows what a poor judge of character you are.  And is just another of your rude personal attacks.

oh and fd...  did you find the correct quotes yet.  :D