Islamic banks 'better in crisis'
By Lucy Williamson
BBC News, Jakarta

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45524000/jpg/_45524427_5wef226.jpg
Advocates of Islamic finance say it copes better with crisis

Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono has called on Islamic banks to take a leadership role in the global economy, amid the financial crisis.

He was speaking at the opening of the World Islamic Economic Forum in the Indonesian capital, Jakarta.

The forum has brought together political and business leaders from 38 countries to discuss the global economic slowdown.

They will also discuss ways to achieve energy and food security.

Mr Yudhoyono said it was time for Islamic banks to do some missionary work in the West.

Islamic financial institutions, he said, had not been hit as hard as their western counterparts because they did not invest in toxic assets.

Banks run in accordance with Muslims laws on interest payments and the sharing of credit risks are seen by many as fairer than traditional banks, less focused on profit and kinder to the communities they work in.

Demand for Islamic financial products has been growing in the Muslim world for years but Mr Yudhoyono said that many in the West were now ready to learn from them.

Islamic law prohibits the payment and collection of interest, which is seen as a form of gambling.

Transactions must be backed by real assets, and because risk is shared between the bank and the depositor, there is added incentive for the institutions to ensure deals are sound.

Source: [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7918129.stm[/url]

Wow, abu, yet another thing Islam is "better" at! You sure know how to blow your own trumpet. If you think Islam came up with the no payment and collection of interest idea you're sorely mistaken.  ;D

jordan484 wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2009 at 7:17am:

Wow, abu, yet another thing Islam is "better" at! You sure know how to blow your own trumpet. If you think Islam came up with the no payment and collection of interest idea you're sorely mistaken.  ;D

Islamic finance is a relatively recent invention.

Also, the prohibition against 'Reba' was against punitive doubling of interest. What would happen is that at set times, the amount you owed would double, then double again, etc. So eventually, you were completely owned by the financier. This is a very different thing frm charging a percentage of interest.

Ultimately, however, sharia banks are about obtaining control over Western financial systems. Western banks have been hoodwinked into paying millions in consulting fees to self-styled sharia financial experts, who tell banks how to be sharia compliant. Its all a scam.

Keep sharia out of the West, including Sharia finance.

I agree, Sharia, and those who want to adhere to it, have no place in the western world.

Abu said
Quote:

Banks run in accordance with Muslims laws on interest payments and the sharing of credit risks are seen by many as fairer than traditional banks, less focused on profit and kinder to the communities they work in.

Abu we don't agree on much but I agree with this statement 100%, better than the completely devoid of ethics whores that are the captains of western capitalism. It it a concept based on raising the community and by default the lender as well.

An alien concept for the modern west, but not for Adam Smith. I wonder how he would feel today to know what he was saying would be completely hijacked by the scum of the earth.

locutius wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2009 at 11:48am:

Abu said[quote]Banks run in accordance with Muslims laws on interest payments and the sharing of credit risks are seen by many as fairer than traditional banks, less focused on profit and kinder to the communities they work in.

Yes of course the foreign Islamic banks have far more ethics and morality than Western banks. That goes without saying....


Islamic banking - Is Treasury complicit?

Published in the Washington Times, Dec. 11, 2008
by Rachel Ehrenfeld and Samuel A. Abady

If "cash is king," then Middle East coffers are irresistibly enticing. During a recent tour of Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states, Deputy Treasury Secretary Robert Kimmitt applauded the "growing role" of Arab banks in the U.S. economy. Treasury is seeking buyers for its newly acquired bailout assets because more than $1 trillion in cash is urgently needed to rescue the largest U.S. banks.

However, cash from the Arabian Gulf comes with a vital string attached: Islamic banking, erroneously viewed as an ancient practice. In fact, Islamic banking is a newly invented institution: "Neither classical nor medieval Islamic civilization featured banks in the modern sense, let alone 'Islamic' banks," notes Timur Kuran, professor of economics and law at the University of Southern California.

According to the Dinar Standard, "assets managed by Islamic banks are in excess of $700 billion - predominantly concentrated in the Middle East."

Islamic banking took off in the 1970s, but was first concocted by Muslim Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna in the 1920s. The stated goal was to penetrate the Western finance system, corrupting it from within in hopes of creating a parallel system to re-establish a global Islamic empire governed by Islamic law (Shariah). Islamic rules of commerce (fiqh al-muamalat) forbid interest (riba) and investing in a prohibited (hara'am) enterprise. They also mandate tithes on wealth (zakat). However, the Koran fails to precisely define these concepts. Imams and ayatollahs differ, for example, on whether riba prohibits all interest or only usurious interest.

While the overhaul of American and Western banking regulations is urgent, Islamic banking cannot be the answer because Muslim clerics - not U.S. laws and regulators - make the rules. In 1969, the Saudis created the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC), which is now leading the charge for global expansion of Islamic banking and has established new regulatory, accounting and auditing organizations to govern such banks. Notably, the OIC's charter is to "liberate Jerusalem and Al-Aqsa [mosque] from Zionist occupation."

Not surprisingly, zakat from Islamic banks often funds terrorist groups like the Muslim Brotherhood's Hamas. That organization's agenda was exposed during the Dallas trial of The Holy Land Foundation, a Hamas front group and an American Muslim charity just convicted of terrorism crimes. Evidence of the charity's true purpose included an 18-page "explanatory memorandum" outlining its "strategic goal … that all their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad (holy war) in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within."

Sharia financing forbids loans to entities labeled hara'am, such as industries that use alcohol, and to all Israeli businesses The Arab League Council established the boycott against Israel on December 2, 1945, (more than two years before creation of the Jewish state). The boycott prohibits all Arab states, companies and individuals from any financial or trade relations with Israel. Companies worldwide are blacklisted for doing business with Israel, as are companies doing business with boycotted firms. The OIC high commissioner for the boycott of Israel coordinates the efforts of its 57 member states from the Central Boycott Office in Damascus.

In response, the United States made it illegal for individuals or companies to cooperate with the Arab boycott. The law mandates reporting of boycott requests and imposes civil and criminal penalties against boycott participants. Arab boycott requests have risen sharply in tandem with the U.S. financial crisis and the rapid growth of Islamic banking. The Commerce Department's Bureau of Industry and Security reported a 20 percent increase in Arab boycott requests overall from 2005 to 2006, and the Congressional Research Service reported 24 boycott requests to U.S. companies in fiscal 2007 from little Bahrain alone.

On April 5, 2006, Congress unanimously condemned Saudi Arabia for its continued enforcement of the boycott - which violated commitments the Saudis made to the World Trade Organization in 2005. Nonetheless, last August Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states threatened to boycott Nissan, which aired a commercial on Israeli television promoting a fuel-efficient car, and demanded the Japanese carmaker's apology. Not a word from Washington.

Instead, the Treasury Department, hungry for petrodollars, is holding seminars to promote Islamic banking and U.S. taxpayers are footing the bill. This practice must stop. Islamic banking corrupts our financial system, enables the illegal Arab economic boycott of Israel and entangles government with Islam in violation of the First Amendment's Establishment Clause.

http://www.terrorfinance.org/the_terror_finance_blog/2008/12/islamic-banking-.html

Quote:

Islamic finance is a relatively recent invention.

Islamic finance has existed since the early days of the Caliphate. The state finances were run according to the financial injunctions mentioned in the Islamic texts, as were private enterprises. Obviously after the fall of the Caliphate, Islamic finance was on hold for some time, and was then revived during the 1970's and is seeing a major period of revival today.


Quote:

Also, the prohibition against 'Reba' was against punitive doubling of interest.

Garbage. Can you show a single Islamic text that equates riba with doubling of interest?

Didn't think so.


Quote:

Ultimately, however, sharia banks are about obtaining control over Western financial systems.

They're about escaping the Western financial systems, not obtaining control over them. I know everything Islamic in your view is part of some secretive plan to take over your civilisaation, but in this case it's completely illogical. If Muslims wanted to take over Western financial systems they'd get inside them, not outside them. Islamic finance is about exiting the Western system, and providing an alternative to it, not being inside it.


Quote:

Western banks have been hoodwinked into paying millions in consulting fees to self-styled sharia financial experts, who tell banks how to be sharia compliant. Its all a scam

I really don't think Western banks are as silly and frivolous as you paint them to be. Bankers are the shrewdest people in Western society, but it doesn't surprise me you would delude yourself into thinking even they are being scammed by the big bad evil Muslim takeover squad.  ;D


Quote:

Keep sharia out of the West, including Sharia finance.

People with money will invest it where it's profitable to invest it. If that means shari'ah compliant finance, then so be it. You're no doubt one of those pathetic little creatures who sits around brooding about nestle dairy products being halal or Muslim passengers on a plane getting their meal before you because it's halal. Newsflash: Those companies offer halal because it's profitable, not because of any 'dhimmitude' that you claim they've submitted to.


Quote:

However, cash from the Arabian Gulf comes with a vital string attached: Islamic banking, erroneously viewed as an ancient practice. In fact, Islamic banking is a newly invented institution: "Neither classical nor medieval Islamic civilization featured banks in the modern sense, let alone 'Islamic' banks," notes Timur Kuran, professor of economics and law at the University of Southern California.

Gotta beg to differ on this one...


Quote:

Classical Islamic banking Main article: Islamic economics in the world Further information: Early reforms under Islam During the Islamic Golden Age, early forms of proto-capitalism and free markets were present in the Caliphate, where an early market economy and an early form of mercantilism were developed between the 8th-12th centuries, which some refer to as "Islamic capitalism". A vigorous monetary economy was created on the basis of the expanding levels of circulation of a stable high-value currency (the dinar) and the integration of monetary areas that were previously independent. A number of innovative concepts and techniques were introduced in early Islamic banking, including bills of exchange, the first forms of partnership (mufawada) such as limited partnerships (mudaraba), and the earliest forms of capital (al-mal), capital accumulation (nama al-mal), cheques, promissory notes, trusts (see Waqf), startup companies, transactional accounts, loaning, ledgers and assignments. Organizational enterprises similar to corporations independent from the state also existed in the medieval Islamic world, while the agency institution was also introduced. Many of these early capitalist concepts were adopted and further advanced in medieval Europe from the 13th century onwards.

Wikipedia: History of Islamic Banking


Quote:

Islamic banking took off in the 1970s, but was first concocted by Muslim Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna in the 1920s. The stated goal was to penetrate the Western finance system, corrupting it from within in hopes of creating a parallel system to re-establish a global Islamic empire governed by Islamic law (Shariah)

All goes back to some devious secretive scheme for world domination by the MB doesn't it?

How inventive..

I've got some news for you Calanen, the MB are a very moderate and benign Islamic movement. Their so called links to al-Qaeda are imagined and misunderstood. In fact there's probably a more realistic link between al-Qaeda and Saddam, than there is the MB  ;D

About the best evidence of a 'link' is between Sayyid Qutb (an MB member who was executed about 40 years before al-Qaeda was even thought of) and al-Qaeda. The Salafi/Wahabi's began condemning and criticising the MB and specifically Sayyid Qutb during the 1990's when they started to become popular in Saudi Arabia. So the more hard core Salafi/Wahabi's such as al-Qaeda began to defend Sayyid Qutb, saying he sacrificed his life for his beliefs (referring to his refusal to sign an apology to Nasser to save his life). The link is imagined.. not real.

Quote:

Muslim passengers on a plane getting their meal before you because it's halal. Newsflash: Those companies offer halal because it's profitable, not because of any 'dhimmitude' that you claim they've submitted to.

It may be profitable, but it's also rude and discriminatory, something you muslims jump up and down about all the time, you're a bunch of high order hypocrites.

Quote:

I've got some news for you Calanen, the MB are a very moderate and benign Islamic movement. Their so called links to al-Qaeda are imagined and misunderstood. In fact there's probably a more realistic link between al-Qaeda and Saddam, than there is the MB

They might be considered 'moderates' within Islam, but that doesnt mean they are not a threat to the West. I have published, a number of times, the grand plan for the Muslim Brotherhood in North America, which speaks of destroying its miserable house from within. So while within Islam, that may seem a moderate view, its not what the self-deceived westerners believe to be moderate.

The Muslim Brotherhood's Conquest of Europe

by Lorenzo Vidino
Middle East Quarterly
Winter 2005

http://www.meforum.org/687/the-muslim-brotherhoods-conquest-of-europe

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Translations of this item:

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Danish


Since its founding in 1928, the Muslim Brotherhood (Hizb al-Ikhwan al-Muslimun) has profoundly influenced the political life of the Middle East. Its motto is telling: "Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. The Qur'an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope."[1]

While the Brotherhood's radical ideas have shaped the beliefs of generations of Islamists, over the past two decades, it has lost some of its power and appeal in the Middle East, crushed by harsh repression from local regimes and snubbed by the younger generations of Islamists who often prefer more radical organizations.

But the Middle East is only one part of the Muslim world. Europe has become an incubator for Islamist thought and political development. Since the early 1960s, Muslim Brotherhood members and sympathizers have moved to Europe and slowly but steadily established a wide and well-organized network of mosques, charities, and Islamic organizations. Unlike the larger Islamic community, the Muslim Brotherhood's ultimate goal may not be simply "to help Muslims be the best citizens they can be," but rather to extend Islamic law throughout Europe and the United States.[2]

Four decades of teaching and cultivation have paid off. The student refugees who migrated from the Middle East forty years ago and their descendants now lead organizations that represent the local Muslim communities in their engagement with Europe's political elite. Funded by generous contributors from the Persian Gulf, they preside over a centralized network that spans nearly every European country.

These organizations represent themselves as mainstream, even as they continue to embrace the Brotherhood's radical views and maintain links to terrorists. With moderate rhetoric and well-spoken German, Dutch, and French, they have gained acceptance among European governments and media alike. Politicians across the political spectrum rush to engage them whenever an issue involving Muslims arises or, more parochially, when they seek the vote of the burgeoning Muslim community.

But, speaking Arabic or Turkish before their fellows Muslims, they drop their facade and embrace radicalism. While their representatives speak about interfaith dialogue and integration on television, their mosques preach hate and warn worshippers about the evils of Western society. While they publicly condemn the murder of commuters in Madrid and school children in Russia, they continue to raise money for Hamas and other terrorist organizations. Europeans, eager to create a dialogue with their increasingly disaffected Muslim minority, overlook this duplicity. The case is particularly visible in Germany, which retains a place of key importance in Europe, not only because of its location at the heart of Europe, but also because it played host to the first major wave of Muslim Brotherhood immigrants and is host to the best-organized Brotherhood presence. The German government's reaction is also instructive if only to show the dangers of accepting Muslim Brotherhood rhetoric at face value, without looking at the broader scope of its activities.

The Muslim Brotherhood
The situation in Germany is particularly telling. More than anywhere else in Europe, the Muslim Brotherhood in Germany has gained significant power and political acceptance. Islamist organizations in other European countries now consciously follow the model pioneered by their German peers.

During the 1950s and 1960s, thousands of Muslim students left the Middle East to study at German universities, drawn not only by the German institutions' technical reputations but also by a desire to escape repressive regimes. Egyptian ruler Gamal Abdel Nasser's regime was especially vigorous in its attempts to root out the Islamist opposition. Beginning in 1954, several members of the Muslim Brotherhood fled Egypt to escape arrest or assassination. West Germany provided a welcome refuge. Bonn's motivations were not simply altruistic. As terrorism expert Khalid Durán explained in his studies on jihadism in Europe,[3] the West German government had decided to cut diplomatic relations with countries that recognized East Germany. When Egypt and Syria established diplomatic relations with the communist government, Bonn decided to welcome Syrian and Egyptian political refugees. Often, these dissidents were Islamists. Many members of the Muslim Brotherhood were already familiar with Germany. Several had cooperated with the Nazis before and during World War II.[4] Some had even, reportedly, fought in the infamous Bosnian Handschar division of the Schutzstaffel (SS).[5]

One of the Muslim Brotherhood's first pioneers in Germany was Sa‘id Ramadan, the personal secretary of Muslim Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna.[6] Ramadan, an Egyptian who had led the Muslim Brotherhood's irregulars in Palestine in 1948,[7] moved to Geneva in 1958 and attended law school in Cologne.[8] In Germany, he founded what has become one of Germany's three main Muslim organizations, the Islamische Gemeinschaft Deutschland (Islamic Society of Germany, IGD), over which he presided from 1958 to 1968.[9] Ramadan also cofounded the Muslim World League,[10] a well-funded organization that the Saudi establishment uses to spread its radical interpretation of Islam throughout the world. The U.S. government closely monitors the activities of the Muslim World League, which it accuses of financing terrorism. In March 2002, a U.S. Treasury Department-led task force raided the group's Northern Virginia offices looking for documents tying the group to Al-Qaeda, Hamas, and Palestinian Islamic Jihad. In January 2004, the Senate Finance Committee asked the Internal Revenue Service for its records on the Muslim World League "as part of an investigation into possible links between nongovernmental organizations and terrorist financing networks."[11] This privileged relationship with the oil-rich kingdom granted Ramadan an influx of money, which he used to fund the powerful Islamic Center of Geneva and to bankroll several financial and religious activities. Hani Ramadan, Sa‘id's son, currently runs the Islamic Center. Among its other board members is Sa‘id's other son, Tariq Ramadan, who recently made headlines in the United States when the Department of Homeland Security revoked his visa to teach at Notre Dame University.[12] Sa‘id Ramadan's case is not isolated.[13]

Following Ramadan's ten-year presidency of the IGD, Pakistani national Fazal Yazdani briefly led the IGD before Ghaleb Himmat, a Syrian with Italian citizenship, took the helm. During his long stewardship (1973-2002), Himmat shuttled between Italy, Austria, Germany, Switzerland and the United States.[14] Intelligence agencies around the world have long scrutinized Himmat's terrorist connections. He is one of the founders of the Bank al-Taqwa, a powerful conglomerate dubbed by Italian intelligence, "Bank of the Muslim Brotherhood," which has financed terrorist groups since the mid-1990s if not earlier.[15] Himmat helped Youssef Nada, one of the Muslim Brotherhood's financial masterminds, run Al-Taqwa and a web of companies headquartered in locations such as Switzerland, Liechtenstein, and the Bahamas, which maintain few regulations on monetary origin or destination. Both Himmat and Nada reportedly funneled large sums to groups such as Hamas and the Algerian Islamic Salvation Front[16] and set up a secret credit line for a top associate of Osama bin Laden.[17]

In November 2001, the U.S. Treasury Department designated both Himmat and Nada as terrorism financiers.[18] According to Italian intelligence, the Al-Taqwa network also financed several Islamic centers throughout Europe[19] and many Islamist publications, including Risalatul Ikhwan,[20] the official magazine of the Muslim Brotherhood. After the U.S. Treasury Department designation, Himmat resigned from the IGD's presidency. His successor was Ibrahim el-Zayat, a 36-year-old of Egyptian descent and the charismatic leader of numerous student organizations.

The fact that IGD leaders Ramadan and Himmat are among the most prominent Muslim Brotherhood members of the last half-century suggests the links between the IGD and the Ikhwan. Moreover, reports issued by internal intelligence agencies from various German states openly call the IGD an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood.[21] In particular, according to one intelligence report, the Egyptian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood has dominated the IGD since its early days.[22]

The Muslim Brotherhood—led by Ramadan and Himmat[23]—sponsored the construction of the imposing Islamic Center of Munich in 1960,[24] aided by large donations from Middle Eastern rulers such as King Fahd of Saudi Arabia who, according to a 1967 Sueddeutsche Zeitung article, donated 80,000 marks.[25] The Ministry of Interior of Nordrhein-Westfalen states that the Islamic Center of Munich has been one of the European headquarters for the Brotherhood since its foundation.[26] The center publishes a magazine, Al-Islam, whose efforts (according to an Italian intelligence dossier),[27] are financed by the Bank al-Taqwa. According to the interior minister of Baden-Württemberg, Al-Islam shows explicitly how the German Brothers reject the concept of a secular state.[28] Its February 2002 issue, for example, states,

In the long run, Muslims cannot be satisfied with the acceptance of German family, estate, and trial law. … Muslims should aim at an agreement between the Muslims and the German state with the goal of a separate jurisdiction for Muslims.

The IGD, of which the Islamic Center of Munich is one of the most important members, represents the main offshoot of the Egyptian Brotherhood in Germany. But the IGD is also the quintessential example of how the Muslim Brotherhood has gained power in Europe. The IGD has grown significantly over the years, and it now incorporates dozens of Islamic organizations throughout the country. Islamic centers from more than thirty German cities have joined its umbrella.[29] Today, the IGD's real strength lies in its cooperation with and sponsorship of many Islamic youth and student organizations across Germany.

This focus on youth organizations came after Zayat's succession. He understood the importance of focusing on the next generation of German Muslims and launched recruitment drives to get young Muslims involved in Islamic organizations. But a Meckenheim police report on the sharply dressed Zayat also reveals alarming connections. German authorities openly say he is a member of the Muslim Brotherhood. They also link him to the World Assembly of Muslim Youth (WAMY), a Saudi nongovernmental organization that seeks to spread Wahhabism, the radical and intolerant Saudi interpretation of Islam, throughout the world with its literature and schools.[30] WAMY, which falls under the umbrella of the Muslim World League, has the stated goal of "arming the Muslim youth with full confidence in the supremacy of the Islamic system over other systems." It is the largest Muslim youth organization in the world and can boast unparalleled resources.[31] In 1991 WAMY published a book called Tawjihat Islamiya (Islamic Views) that stated, "Teach our children to love taking revenge on the Jews and the oppressors, and teach them that our youngsters will liberate Palestine and Al-Quds [Jerusalem] when they go back to Islam and make jihad for the sake of Allah."[32] The sentiments in Tawjihat Islamiya are the rule rather than the exception. Many other WAMY publications are filled with strong anti-Semitic and anti-Christian rhetoric.

Meckenheim police also link Zayat to Institut Européen des Sciences Humaines, a French school that prepares European imams. Several radical clerics lecture at the school and several European intelligence agencies accuse the school of spreading religious hatred.[33] German authorities also highlight the fact that he is involved in several money laundering investigations.[34] Zayat has never been indicted for terrorist activity, but he has dubious financial dealings and maintains associations with many organizations that spread religious hatred. The IGD may have changed leadership after the U.S. Treasury's designation of Himmat, but it did not change direction.

While the Egyptian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood has chosen Munich as its base of operations in Germany, its Syrian branch is headquartered in Aachen, a German town near the Dutch border. The former Carolingian capital, with its famous university, is now home to a large Muslim population including the prominent Syrian Al-Attar family. The first Attar to move to Aachen was Issam, who fled persecution in his native country in the 1950s when he was leader of the Syrian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. Other members of the Syrian Muslim Brotherhood soon followed. With time, Islamists from other countries adopted Attar's Bilal mosque in Aachen as their base of operations.[35] From hosting exiled Algerian terrorists[36] to operating a charity designated by the U.S. Department of Treasury as a financial front for Hamas,[37] Aachen is well known to intelligence agencies throughout the world.

The Syrian Muslim Brotherhood base in Aachen kept close relations with their Egyptian counterparts. For example, confirming the tendency of important Muslim Brotherhood families to close alliance through intermarriage, Issam al-Attar's son married the daughter of Al-Taqwa banker Youssef Nada.[38] Links between the two Muslim Brotherhood branches are more extensive than a single marriage, however. The Aachen Islamic Center reportedly received funding from Al-Taqwa.[39] Staff members have rotated between the Islamic Centers in Aachen and Munich. For example, Ahmed von Denffer, editor of the Islamic Center of Munich's Al-Islam magazine, came to Munich from Aachen.[40] Nevertheless, some distance remains. The Syrian Muslim Brotherhood has never joined the IGD, instead preferring to keep some form of independence.

Milli Görüş
Of all of Zayat's financial activities, the one that has attracted the German authorities' greatest suspicion has been his association with officials of Milli Görüş (National Vision, in Turkish). Milli Görüş, which has 30,000 members and perhaps another 100,000 sympathizers,[41] claims to defend the rights of Germany's immigrant Turkish population, giving them a voice in the democratic political arena while "preserving their Islamic identity."[42] But Milli Görüş has another agenda. While publicly declaring its interest in democratic debate and a willingness to see Turkish immigrants integrated into European societies, some Milli Görüş leaders have expressed contempt for democracy and Western values. The Bundesverfassungsschutz, Germany's domestic intelligence agency, has repeatedly warned about Milli Görüş' activities, describing the group in its annual reports as a "foreign extremist organization."[43] The agency also reported that "although Milli Görüş, in public statements, pretends to adhere to the basic principles of Western democracies, abolition of the laicist government system in Turkey and the establishment of an Islamic state and social system are, as before, among its goals."[44]

Milli Görüş' history alone indicates why the group should be considered radical. Former Turkish prime minister Nehmettin Erbakan, whose Refah Party was banned by the Turkish Constitutional Court in January of 1998 for "activities against the country's secular regime,"[45] is still Milli Görüş' undisputed leader, even if his nephew Mehmet Sabri Erbakan is its president. The 2002 European Milli Görüş meeting held in the Dutch city of Arnhem, where Nehmettin Erbakan was the keynote speaker, provides a glimpse into Milli Görüş' ideology. After a tirade against the evils of integration in the West and U.S. policies, Erbakan declared that "after the fall of the wall, the West has found an enemy in Islam."[46] A Bundesverfassungsschutz report reveals Milli Görüş' real aims:

While in recent times, the Milli Görüş has increasingly emphasized the readiness of its members to be integrated into German society and asserts its adherence to the basic law, such statements stem from tactical calculation rather than from any inner change of the organization.[47]

Milli Görüş pushes an agenda similar to that of the IGD, even if its target is more limited. Nevertheless, both Milli Görüş and the IGD collaborate on many initiatives. There is also a family connection. Zayat married Sabiha Erbakan, the sister of Mehmet Sabri Erbakan.[48] The siblings' mother is also involved in politics and runs an important Islamic women's organization in Germany. The Zayat family is active as well. Ibrahim el-Zayat's father is the imam of the Marburg mosque; other members of his family are involved in Islamic organizations. As Udo Ulfkotte, a political science professor specializing in counterespionage at the University of Lueneburg and an expert on Islamic terrorism, notes, the Erbakans and the Zayats lead networks of organizations that aim at the radicalization, respectively, of the Turkish and Arab communities in Germany.[49]

IGD and Milli Görüş are active in their efforts to increase political influence and become the official representatives of the entire German Muslim community. With well-endowed budgets, their mosques provide social services, organize conferences, and distribute literature nationwide. As the Office for the Protection of the Constitution (Landesverfassungsschutz) in Hessen[50] notes:

The threat of Islamism for Germany is posed … primarily by Milli Görüş and other affiliated groups. They try to spread Islamist views within the boundaries of the law. Then they try to implement … for all Muslims in Germany a strict interpretation of the Qur'an and of the Shari‘a. … Their public support of tolerance and religious freedom should be treated with caution.[51]

It presents a problem that politicians and security services in Germany view the IGD and Milli Görüş so differently. But, as Ulfkotte wrote about Zayat in his book, Der Krieg in unseren Staedten (The War in Our Cities),[52] "politicians of all colors and parties try to reach out to him."[53] For example, the prestigious Berlin Catholic Academy invited Zayat to represent the Muslim point of view in an inter-religious meeting organized by the academy in October 2002.[54] German politicians and Christian institutions regularly partner themselves with Milli Görüş in various initiatives. Milli Gazete, the official journal of Milli Görüş, once stated that "Milli Görüş is a shield protecting our fellow citizens from assimilation into barbaric Europe."[55] Nevertheless, German politicians meet regularly with Milli Görüş officials to discuss immigration and integration issues. The fact that an official like Ahmed al-Khalifah, IGD secretary general, represents Islam before members of parliament who are discussing religious tolerance,[56] shows the success of Brotherhood-linked organizations' efforts to gain acceptance as the representatives of German Muslims. The Office for the Protection of the Constitution well described these efforts, saying that Milli Görüş (and the IGD) "strives to dominate regional or nationwide federations and umbrella organizations for Muslims which are increasingly gaining importance as interlocutors for state and ecclesiastical authorities and thus to expand its influence within society."[57]

Zentralrat, the Islamist Umbrella
In 1989, under the auspices of Abdullah at-Turki, powerful dean of Bin Saud University in Riyadh, the Saudis created the Islamische Konzil Deutschland (Islamic Council of Germany). Turki assumed the presidency with other top positions held by Ibrahim el-Zayat, Hasan Özdögan, a high-ranking Milli Görüş official, and Ahmad Khalifa, an officer from the Islamic Center of Munich.[58] While an official German parliament report describes the Islamische Konzil as just "another Sunni organization," such an assumption indicates a dangerous misunderstanding of the Saudi relationship to German Islamists.[59]

The trend toward consolidation took a step forward in 1994 when German Islamists realized that a united coalition translated into greater political relevance and influence. Nineteen organizations, including the IGD, the Islamic Center of Munich, and the Islamic Center of Aachen, created an umbrella organization, the Zentralrat der Muslime. According to a senior German intelligence official, at least nine out of these nineteen organizations belong to the Muslim Brotherhood.[60] The German press has recently investigated the Zentralrat president, Nadeem Elyas, a German-educated Saudi physician and an official of the Islamic Center of Aachen. Die Welt linked Elyas to Christian Ganczarski, an Al-Qaeda operative currently jailed as one of the masterminds of the 2002 attack on a synagogue in Tunisia.[61] Ganczarski, a German of Polish descent who converted to Islam, told authorities that Al-Qaeda recruited him at the Islamic University of Medina where Elyas sent him to study.[62] Elyas said he could not remember meeting him but did not deny the possibility that Ganczarski, who never completed high school, might have been one of the many individuals he had sent over the years to radical schools in Saudi Arabia.[63] Saudi donors paid all of Ganczarski's expenses.[64] Ganczarski was not alone. Elyas admitted to having sent hundreds of German Muslims to study at one of the most radical universities in Saudi Arabia.[65]

The Zentralrat, which portrays itself as the umbrella organization for German Muslim organizations, has become, together with the IGD and Milli Görüş, the de facto representative of three million German Muslims. Even though the IGD is a member of the Zentralrat, the two organizations often operate independently. Their apparent independence is planned. With many organizations operating under different names, the Muslim Brotherhood fools German politicians who believe they are consulting a spectrum of opinion.[66] The media seek the Zentralrat's officials when they want the Muslim view on everything from the debate about the admissibility of the hijab (headscarf) in public schools, to the war in Iraq, and so forth. Politicians seek the Zentralrat's endorsement when they want to reach out to the Muslim community. Many German politicians are uninformed about Islam and do not understand that the view and the interpretation of Islam that the Zentralrat expresses, as does the IGD and Milli Görüş, is that of the Muslim Brotherhood and not that of traditional Islam. Accordingly, the Zentralrat expresses total opposition to any ban of the hijab, supports Wahhabi-influenced Islamic education in schools, and endorses a radical position on the Middle East situation.[67] While many Muslims endorse these views, the problem is that the Zentralrat neither represents nor tolerates those with divergent views. Moderate German Muslim groups lack the funding and organization of Muslim Brotherhood-linked groups. In terms of numbers, influence on the Muslim community, and political relevance, the Zentralrat and its two most important constituent parts, the IGD and Milli Görüş, dominate the scene. With ample Saudi financing, the Muslim Brotherhood has managed to become the voice of the Muslims in Germany.

Recently, the German public was shocked to hear what is preached inside Saudi-funded mosques and schools. In the fall of 2003, a hidden camera-equipped journalist from Germany's ARD television infiltrated the Saudi-built King Fahd Academy in Bonn and taped what it taught to young Muslim children. One teacher called for jihad against the infidels.[68] While the images elicited a rebuke from German politicians, the rather sterile debate about Saudi influence on German Muslims has not effected tangible change. Saudi officials and Saudi-run nongovernmental organizations continue to groom Muslim Brotherhood organizations.

First Germany, Then Europe
While the Muslim Brotherhood and their Saudi financiers have worked to cement Islamist influence over Germany's Muslim community, they have not limited their infiltration to Germany. Thanks to generous foreign funding, meticulous organization, and the naïveté of European elites, Muslim Brotherhood-linked organizations have gained prominent positions throughout Europe. In France, the extremist Union des Organisations Islamiques de France (Union of Islamic Organizations of France) has become the predominant organization in the government's Islamic Council.[69] In Italy, the extremist Unione delle Comunita' ed Organizzazioni Islamiche in Italia (Union of the Islamic Communities and Organizations in Italy) is the government's prime partner in dialogue regarding Italian Islamic issues.[70]

In parallel to European Union integration efforts, the Muslim Brotherhood is also seeking to integrate its various European proxies. Over the past fifteen years, the Muslim Brotherhood has created a series of pan-European organizations such as the Federation of Islamic Organizations in Europe, in which representatives from national organizations can meet and plan initiatives.[71] Perhaps the Muslim Brotherhood's greatest pan-European impact has, as with the Islamische Gemeinschaft Deutschland, been with its youth organization. In June 1996, Muslim youth organizations from Sweden, France, and England joined forces with the Federation of Islamic Organizations in Europe and the World Assembly of Muslim Youth to create a European Islamic youth organization.[72] Three months later, thirty-five delegates from eleven countries met in Leicester and formally launched the Forum of European Muslim Youth and Student Organizations (FEMYSO), which maintains its headquarters in Brussels.[73]

According to its official publications, FEMYSO is "a network of 42 national and international organizations bringing together youth from over 26 different countries." FEMYSO proudly stated in 2003 that over the preceding four years it had become

The de facto voice of the Muslim youth in Europe. It is regularly consulted on issues pertaining to Muslims in Europe. It has also developed useful links with: the European Parliament, the Council of Europe, the United Nations, the European Youth Forum, and numerous relevant NGOs at the European level.[74]

Ibrahim el-Zayat, who held the presidency until his commitments in Germany forced him to step down, even used the FEMYSO perch to address the European Parliament.[75] Because the Muslim Brotherhood provides the bulk of FEMYSO's constituent organizations, it provides the "de facto voice of the Muslim youth in Europe." While FEMYSO claims that it "is committed to fighting prejudices at all the levels, so that the future of Europe is a multicultural, inclusive and respectful one,"[76] such statements ring hollow given the position of sponsors like the World Assembly of Muslim Youth which believes that "the Jews are enemies of the faithful, God, and the Angels; the Jews are humanity's enemies. … Every tragedy that inflicts the Muslims is caused by the Jews."[77]

The Muslim Brotherhood's ample funds and organization have contributed to their success in Europe. But their acceptance into mainstream society and their unchallenged rise to power would not have been possible had European elites been more vigilant, valued substance over rhetoric, and understood the motivations of those financing and building these Islamist organizations. Why have Europeans been so naïve? Bassam Tibi, a German professor of Syrian descent and an expert on Islam in Europe, thinks that Europeans—and Germans in particular—fear the accusation of racism.[78] Radicals in sheep's clothing have learned that they can silence almost everybody with the accusation of xenophobia. Any criticism of Muslim Brotherhood-linked organizations is followed by outcries of racism and anti-Muslim persecution. Journalists who are not frightened by these appellatives are swamped with baseless and unsuccessful but expensive lawsuits.

In some cases, politicians simply fail to check the backgrounds of those who claim to be legitimate representatives for the Muslim community. As in the United States, self-described representatives for the Muslim community are far more radical than the populations they represent. In other cases, politicians realize that these organizations are not the ideal counterparts in a constructive dialogue but do not take the time to seek other less visible but more moderate organizations, several of which exist only at the grassroots level, impeded by financial constraints.

What most European politicians fail to understand is that by meeting with radical organizations, they empower them and grant the Muslim Brotherhood legitimacy. There is an implied endorsement to any meeting, especially when the same politicians ignore moderate voices that do not have access to generous Saudi funding. This creates a self-perpetuating cycle of radicalization because the greater the political legitimacy of the Muslim Brotherhood, the more opportunity it and its proxy groups will have to influence and radicalize various European Muslim communities. The ultimate irony is that Muslim Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna dreamed of spreading Islamism throughout Egypt and the Muslim world. He would have never dreamed that his vision might also become a reality in Europe.

It's all pure speculation, not a single piece of it is based on evidence.

Suspicion, wild accusations, illogical conclusions that's about all you've got against the MB.

abu_rashid wrote on Mar 4^th, 2009 at 10:45am:

It's all pure speculation, not a single piece of it is based on evidence. Suspicion, wild accusations, illogical conclusions that's about all you've got against the MB.

http://www.meforum.org/687/the-muslim-brotherhoods-conquest-of-europe

[1] "Homepage," Muslim Brotherhood Movement website, accessed Dec. 22, 2004.
[2] The Chicago Tribune, Sept. 19, 2004; also see Daniel Pipes, The Islamic States of America?, FrontPageMagazine.com, Sept. 23, 2004.
[3] Khalid Duran, "Jihadism in Europe," The Journal of Counterterrorism and Security International, Fall 2000, pp. 12-5.
[4] Richard Labeviere, Dollars for Terror: The U.S. and Islam (New York: Algora Publishing 2000), p. 141.
[5] Georges Lepre, "Himmler's Bosnian Division: The Waffen SS Handschar Division 1943-45," Schiffer Aviation History, Jan. 2000, pp. 31-4.
[6] M. H. Faruqi, "Les Frères Musulmans. Politique de ‘rabbaniyya,' les prières avant le pouvoir Dr. Saïd Ramadan, 1926-1995," Historique du Centre Islamique, Islamic Center of Geneva.
[7] Ibid.
[8] Ibid.
[9] "Prasidenten der IGD," Islamische Gemeinschaft in Deutschland website, accessed Dec. 22, 2004.
[10] Faruqi, "Les Frères Musulmans," Historique du Centre Islamique.
[11] "Senators Request Tax Information on Muslim Charities for Probe," U.S. State Department news release, Jan. 14, 2004.
[12] Fouad Ajami, "Tariq Ramadan," The Wall Street Journal, Sept. 7, 2004.
[13] Labeviere, Dollars for Terror, p. 122.
[14] Official dossier on Ahmed Nasreddin (hereafter Nasreddin dossier), Servizio per le Informazioni e la Sicurezza Democratica (Italian secret service, SISDE), Apr. 6, 1996, p. 10.
[15] Ibid., p. 24.
[16] Ibid., p. 31.
[17] Newsweek, May 12, 2004.
[18] "Recent OFAC Actions," U.S. Department of the Treasury, Office of Foreign Assets Control, Nov. 7, 2001.
[19] Nasreddin dossier, p. 31.
[20] Ibid.
[21] "Islamische Gemeinschaft in Deutschland" Innenministerium, Nordrhein-Westfalen land website, accessed Dec. 22, 2004; "Islamismus," Landesamt fur Verfassungsschutz, Hessen website, accessed Dec. 22, 2004.
[22] "Islamische Gemeinschaft in Deutschland," Innenministerium, Nordrhein-Westfalen land.
[23] Official Guide to the Munich Mosque (Munich: The Islamic Center of Munich), purchased by the author at the Milli Görüş' bookstore, Cologne, Feb. 2004.
[24] "Islamische Gemeinschaft in Deutschland," Innenministerium, Nordrhein-Westfalen land.
[25] Sueddeutsche Zeitung (Munich), July 29-30, 1967.
[26] "Islamische Gemeinschaft in Deutschland," Innenministerium, Nordrhein-Westfalen land.
[27] Nasreddin dossier, p. 31.
[28] Report on radical Islam, Baden Württenberg state Verfassungsschutzbericht, 2003, p. 48.
[29] "Koordination mit Zentren in folgenden Städten," Islamische Gemeinschaft in Deutschland website, accessed Dec. 22, 2004.
[30] Report on Ibrahim el-Zayat, Cologne police, Aug. 27, 2003, p. 3.
[31] David Kane, FBI senior special agent, affidavit in "Supplemental Declaration in Support of Pre-Trial Detention," United States of America v. Soliman S. Biheiri, U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia. The affidavit also details WAMY's links to the Palestinian terrorist organization Hamas.
[32] Kane, "Supplemental Declaration in Support of Pre-Trial Detention."
[33] The Wall Street Journal, Apr. 15, 2003.
[34] Report on el-Zayat, Aug. 27, 2003, p. 4.
[35] Duran, "Jihadism in Europe," pp. 12-5.
[36] Klaus Gruenewald, "Defending Germany's Constitution," Middle East Quarterly, Mar. 1995, p. 10.
[37] See Al-Aqsa Foundation, "Recent OFAC Reports," U.S. Department of the Treasury, Office of Foreign Assets Control, June 6, 2003.
[38] Nasreddin dossier, p. 9.
[39] Ibid., p. 30.
[40] Duran, "Jihadism in Europe," pp. 12-5.
[41] "Islamische Gemeinschaft Milli Gorus," Innenministerium, Nordrhein-Westfalen land website, accessed Dec. 22, 2004.
[42] Annual report of the Office for the Protection of the Constitution (Bundesverfassungsschutz), 2000, Cologne, p. 174.
[43] Annual report of the Office for the Protection of the Constitution (Bundesverfassungsschutz), 1999, Cologne, p. 165.
[44] Ibid.
[45] Agence France-Presse, Jan. 16, 1998.
[46] Mehmet Ülger, "Manifestatie Milli Görüş in Arnhem," De Humanist, July 2003.
[47] Annual report, Bundesverfassungsschutz, 2000, p. 198.
[48] Udo Ulfkotte, Der Krieg in unseren Staedten (Frankfurt: Eichborn Publishing, 2003), pp. 32-3.
[49] Author interview with Udo Ulfkotte, Frankfurt, Feb. 2004.
[50] Within the German federal system, each state has its own Office of the Protection for the Constitution (Landesverfassungsschutz), which is independent from the national Bundessverfassungsschutz.
[51] "Islamismus," Landesamt fur Verfassungsschutz, Hessen.
[52] Frankfurt: Eichborn Publishing, 2003.
[53] Ulfkotte, Der Krieg in unseren Staedten, p. 38.
[54] "Christentum und Islam," German Association of Muslim Social Scientists (GMSG), Oct. 26, 2002.
[55] Anti-Semitism Worldwide 1998/9 (Tel Aviv: Stephen Roth Institute, Tel Aviv University, 2000).
[56] Ulfkotte, Der Krieg in unseren Staedten, p. 38.
[57] Annual report, Bundesverfassungsschutz, 2000, p. 174.
[58] Ulfkotte, Der Krieg in unseren Staedten, p. 164.
[59] Ibid., p. 162.
[60] Hartwig Mueller, head of the Verfassungsschutz of Nordrhein Westfahlen, interview on German television SWR, Mar. 21, 2003.
[61] Die Welt (Berlin), May 6, 2003.

The evidence..footnoted at the bottom.

Writers who are part of the "terrorism industry" are hardly valid sources of information. They are scumbags who try to make a dollar out of other peoples conflicts, by sensationalising anything they can, to guarantee themselves an audience.

For anyone who would like to know a bit more about the threat the Muslim Brotherhood poses to Western society.

Abu's praise for them makes me think he may be a member, which stands to reason given they are well active in Australia.

http://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/misc/135.pdf

Complete copy of Muslim Brotherhoods Stategy document for the USA, which I have quoted from before:

http://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/misc/20.pdf

Submission to the United States Senate Committee on Homeland Affairs and Governmental Affairs, overview of the Muslim Brotherhood, by Steve Emerson:

http://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/testimony/353.pdf

That should do for starters.

But of course, they are all fake right Abu? Including the Muslim Brotherhood's own Strategy Manual for the USA.

And how about their goal in Europe:

http://www.investigativeproject.org/173/aims-and-methods-of-europes-muslim-brotherhood

The Long March Toward Sharia in Europe

The success of organizations such as FIOE and FEMYSO is the crowning achievement of the Brothers' thirty years of hard work. The Ikhwan groups have managed to be - come part of the establishment, finding a small niche in the corridors of European power. The Brothers view this triumph as a mere starting point, however. Having gained the trust of large segments of both Europe's elites and its Muslim communities, the Brothers want to use their newly acquired power to create the "Muslim ghetto" envisioned by Qaradawi. An extensive network of mosques and educational facilities already exists; the next step toward the creation of what Reuven Paz refers to as "non-territorial Islamic states in Europe" is the implementation of Islamic law for Europe's Muslim population. [56]

An article in a 2002 issue of Al Islam, the official publication of the European Brotherhood's historic Islamic Center of Munich, openly states that "In the long run, Muslims cannot be satisfied with the acceptance of German family, estate, and trial law… Muslims should aim at an agreement between the Muslims and the German state with the goal of a separate jurisdiction for Muslims." [57] The Brothers fully understand that the implementation of sharia in Europe is a very difficult task that currently seems quite far-fetched. But patience and long-term vision are two of the movement's strongest assets, and the Brothers are working to reap their fruits "in the long run." For now, the Ikhwan is generally refraining from officially asking for the implementation of sharia, despite hints that make its ultimate aim quite apparent. The Brothers have begun, for example, to create an Islamic legal framework that lays the foundation for imposing sharia in the West.

Muslims won't be happy until they have total control across the globe. It's just not enough for them to share, compromise or tolerate another way, no, it all has to be done their way. Selfish selfish selfish.

jordan484 wrote on Mar 4^th, 2009 at 11:54am:

Muslims won't be happy until they have total control across the globe. It's just not enough for them to share, compromise or tolerate another way, no, it all has to be done their way. Selfish selfish selfish.

It's a bit more than that.

There is a divine command to destroy everything else that is not Islamic. The whole system of Islam, is designed to gear society up for warfare against the unbeleivers through jihad. That's all it does.

And we are kidding ourselves, massively, if we think otherwise. The evidence is overwhelming, every single day on the news. But we don't want to believe it.

abu_rashid wrote on Mar 4^th, 2009 at 11:38am:

Writers who are part of the "terrorism industry" are hardly valid sources of information. They are scumbags who try to make a dollar out of other peoples conflicts, by sensationalising anything they can, to guarantee themselves an audience.

It's an industry Islam created.

You reject out of hand any other evidence that is contrary to your view, by saying its biassed, badly translated, etc. It just translates into you never wanting to accept any evidence, no matter how damning, irrefutable that is against your point of view. But that is standard operating procedure for Muslims, which is par exemplar why there is never any point in speaking with them or negotiating with them.

There is no compromise in Islam. Kuffar are always wrong. Muslims are always right. So, what is there for us to talk about?

But you did not look at the links. Some of the quotes are from government reports.

Also, while I would say that the Muslim Brotherhood is part of the Terrorism Industry, not in the sense that you use the term however. Its own website is quoted, and I have quoted its Strategy manual for the USA. But apparently that is not real.

What part of the strategy manual demonstrates to you that it is not real Abu? Did you even read it?

Another fantastic piece of evidence, Attachment A to the indictmetn filed in the Holy Land Founation trial:

http://www.nefafoundation.org/miscellaneous/HLF/US_v_HLF_Unindicted_Coconspirators.pdf

Lists a number of Muslim Brotherhood members as unindicted co-conspirators with the defendants. Who were found guilty I might add.

Here is the Muslim Brotherhood's Implementation Manual for 1991-1992:

http://www.nefafoundation.org/miscellaneous/FeaturedDocs/Manual9192GroupsPlan-trial2.pdf

Very very detailed plans. Shows that they are very well organised.

http://www.nefafoundation.org/miscellaneous/FeaturedDocs/PA_WhoisFundingHamas.pdf

Palestinian Authority showing that Hamas gets 10% of its budget from US entities, including 'Mecca Investments' and the Islamic Youth Union, see page 5. I think Hamas should adopt a "Name a Rocket' program, so you can donate some money to have your very own named rocket fired into Sderot. Would work a treat I think. Abu Rashid would like his own rocket - you know you would Abu!

1993 Philadelphia Conference - Muslim Brotherhood, Holy Land Foundation and others meet to talk about the grand jihad. And one of them is heard on tape, talking about how they should appear more moderate to deceive the infidels:


Ahmad then bemoans the difficulty of appeasing both American and Muslim audiences. He comments, "if you want to [talk to] the Americans, you lose the Muslims. If you address the Muslims, it means that you cannot reveal your address to the Americans. Frankly speaking." Providing an example, he says, "Like when you're talking opposition to peace...people are telling us that we have become peace-loving, for instance...But, one could interpret peace-loving that we have surrendered and another would interpret it that we...use diplomatic terms...if someone asked you if you want to destroy Israel, what are you going to say on TV?" He tells the group, "if you give an inconclusive response which is like you didn't answer the question, someone will come to you and tell you that you have forsaken your principles."

Turning his attention back to the possibility of forming new organizations, Ahmad points out that "we don't really have available people whom we could dedicate for the work we want to hide."

After discussion about whether the organizations "should drop our Islamic identity or keep it," Shukri Abu Baker tells his colleagues, "War is deception. Deceive, camouflage. Pretend that you're leaving while you're walking that way...Deceive your enemy." Omar Ahmad chimes in, "This is like one who plays basketball; he makes a player believe that he is doing this while he does something else...I agree with you. Like they say, politics is a completion of war."


http://nefafoundation.org/miscellaneous/HLF/93Philly_6.pdf

This is what Islam is - deception to enable war to be brought against the infidel societies and institutions. Attempt to deceive the West that they are moderate to lull us into a false sense of security to better attack. Do not be deceived.

Part of the money that Islamic banks get must be paid as Zakat, which is supposed to be for charitable purposes. One would think that this seems great, some money goes to the needy? Well according to some fatwas, the needy includes anyone making jihad against the West:

http://www.nefafoundation.org/miscellaneous/FeaturedDocs/Nashmifatwa_trial2.pdf


Quote:

This fatwa, issued by Akeel Al-Nashmi of the University of Kuwait and supported by Yousef al-Qaradawi (who helped HLF raise funds), states, "we believe that the meaning of the 'In the Path of Allah' includes supporting Islamic da'wa and making the Word of Allah (high) prevail. This is strongly supported it is a general term that includes Jihad with arms to fight the enemies which is more important than other things." It continues, "there is no doubt that working to restore Islamic life and to reestablish the Islamic State is a tremendous task and a duty on everyone to the best of his/her abilities and if the first opinion or meaning of the term 'In the Path of Allah' is applied to today's situation, it would then mean 'TO SUPPORT EVERY EFFORT THAT STOPS KUFR AND ITS REGIMES AND REESTABLISHES THE ISLAMIC STATE.'" Thus, "it is...allowed to pay Zakat to those parties, groups, and Islamic societies in the west, for example, because they aspire to restore Islamic life, erase Kufr regimes, and replace them with the Sharia' of Allah...Zakat will be paid to every action that could be considered as a means to reach the goal..."

And why the banking crisis matters for our banks, the Rudd government has guaranteed them for the next 3 years.

Still no hard evidence I see.

Just claims so and so said this on a tape at a conference 10 years ago etc.

Even the claims you've made there, what is wrong with saying that adopting peace means either surrendering to the oppressors? or adopting a different concept of peace??  This is exactly what the West mean when they dictate how Muslims should view the invasions of their lands. "Surrender everything to us, and embrace our 'peace' so that we can distribute your resources the way we see fit". Should Palestinians embrace "peace"?? When they've been occupied, attacked, made refugees for well over 60 years now?? Where is the peace for them?

The ironic thing is Calanen, all your conspiracy theories and claims about Muslims are in fact 100% true about the way the West deals with the Muslims. The West has invaded so many Muslim lands, arms and funds and gives diplomatic support to the most treacherous child killing dogs on the face of the earth, rapes and pillages our lands for her "Energy security" and then we have dropkicks like you claiming "But Islam is the violent, take over the world, ideology that we all have to be weary of"....

Don't you think it wears a bit thin when the reality speaks for itself in the opposite direction to what you're peddling?

Islamic finance may be cure for crisis, Vatican suggests
As world markets suffer under the weight of the ongoing global financial crisis, the Vatican has put forward a new suggestion, arguing that the principles of Islamic finance may represent a possible cure for ailing markets.
                                                                                                                                                                                               
The Vatican's official newspaper, L'Osservatore Romano, recently published an article titled "Islamic finance proposals and ideas for the West in crisis," prepared by Italian economists Loretta Napoleoni and Claudia Segre, in which it was suggested that the basic rules of Islamic finance could relieve suffering markets and particularly international financial systems. Noting that Islam prohibits "riba," Arabic for the usurious loaning of money, the article argued that "sukuk bonds," securities that comply with Islamic law, may be an alternative to interest. The article stressed that sukuk bonds are always real investments and never speculative.

The article said that in this atmosphere of crisis banks should take Muslims as an example and that the Islamic finance system may pave the way for the establishment of new rules in the Western world. The Vatican has suggested that the current capitalist system has failed. Pope Benedict XVI recently harshly criticized the capitalist system and the greediness of bank owners in the West.  In the meantime, the Vatican itself has been badly affected by the crisis. It had recorded an 18 billion euro budget surplus in 2007, but this number had declined to 6 billion euros by the end of 2008 and is expected to fall further in 2009.

07 March 2009, Saturday
HAKAN KALAYCI  İSTANBUL

Source: Today's Zaman