“Beauty will save the world”
Dostoyevsky

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t936rzOt3Zc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQnKQC9bGoM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1Vof_gHnNs

Hmmm flies in the face of Helen of Troy then if it does.

Grendel wrote on May 4^th, 2009 at 12:38pm:

Hmmm flies in the face of Helen of Troy then if it does.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfayX17wFlk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivASIwtHALM&feature=related

Who was it that said 'The ancient Greeks were more interested in beauty than they ever were about truth' ?

Or at least that beauty was synonymous with truth.

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 4^th, 2009 at 1:57pm:

Who was it that said 'The ancient Greeks were more interested in beauty than they ever were about truth' ? Or at least that beauty was synonymous with truth.

Keats. Ode on a Grecian Urn

....


When old age shall this generation waste,
Thou shalt remain, in midst of other woe
Than ours, a friend to man, to whom thou sayst,
"Beauty is truth, truth beauty," -that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

Soren wrote on May 4^th, 2009 at 5:24pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 4th, 2009 at 1:57pm: Who was it that said 'The ancient Greeks were more interested in beauty than they ever were about truth' ? Or at least that beauty was synonymous with truth. Keats. Ode on a Grecian Urn .... When old age shall this generation waste, Thou shalt remain, in midst of other woe Than ours, a friend to man, to whom thou sayst, "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," -that is all Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

Soren this poem is very nice.

Also Socrates was not interested in fame or to be superior he was only interested in truth ( with capital T ) for truth's sake and that’s why he had to be killed.
Socrates death was typical example how democracy can fail as a political concept. After many centuries later the democracy and aesthetics was defeated again when dictatorship of stupid majority chose J.W. Bush and John Howard as leaders.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcgWQZ9JVoI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIET8AisJF4&feature=related

That's a flaw in the human condition. We equate beauty with truth.... And believe or prefer to believe that beautiful people tell the truth.

Quote:

"Why am I going there now? Am I capable of that? Is that serious? It is not serious at all. It's simply a fantasy to amuse myself; a plaything! Yes, maybe it is a plaything."

(c) Dostoevsky, Crime and Punishment

tallowood wrote on May 4^th, 2009 at 9:01pm:

Quote: "Why am I going there now? Am I capable of that? Is that serious? It is not serious at all. It's simply a fantasy to amuse myself; a plaything! Yes, maybe it is a plaything." (c) Dostoevsky, Crime and Punishment

He ( Raskolnikov ) very easily, from rational point of view, could justify killing the old women. That’s why Dostoyevsky said:

“If God is dead everything is permitted”
( Brothers Karamazov)

The worst monsters are rational monsters.

athos wrote on May 5^th, 2009 at 1:38pm:

[quote author=tallowood link=1241403108/0#8 date=1241434906 He ( Raskolnikov ) very easily, from rational point of view, could justify killing the old women. That’s why Dostoyevsky said: “If God is dead everything is permitted” ( Brothers Karamazov) The worst monsters are rational monsters.

Which, of course, does not mean that reason leads to monstrosity. Some people confuse reason and ratonality. They are not the same.

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 4^th, 2009 at 8:41pm:

And believe or prefer to believe that beautiful people tell the truth.

Did you make that up yourself?
This not even pop psychology.

athos wrote on May 5^th, 2009 at 1:38pm:

tallowood wrote on May 4th, 2009 at 9:01pm: Quote: "Why am I going there now? Am I capable of that? Is that serious? It is not serious at all. It's simply a fantasy to amuse myself; a plaything! Yes, maybe it is a plaything." (c) Dostoevsky, Crime and Punishment He ( Raskolnikov ) very easily, from rational point of view, could justify killing the old women. That’s why Dostoyevsky said: “If God is dead everything is permitted” ( Brothers Karamazov) The worst monsters are rational monsters.

Raskolnikov loved horses and that is why he confessed, which mean raskolololsya in Russian. That proves that for Dostoevskiy game of words was a plaything.

Small things cannot be beautiful - Aristotle

Soren wrote on May 7^th, 2009 at 10:00pm:

Small things cannot be beautiful - Aristotle

Like the Jewish people.

Sorry i mean demons/parasites.

"beauty should be heaps" (c) Kozma Prutkov greatest ever Russian philosopher and heaps more cheerful writer then Dostoevsky  :)

Sounds like he sprang from Gogol's overcoat (like all of us) and has read Aristotle with a sympathetic eye.

Soren wrote on May 7^th, 2009 at 10:29pm:

Sounds like he sprang from Gogol's overcoat (like all of us) and has read Aristotle with a sympathetic eye.

Gogol was Small Russian like Nikita Hruschev who was in his turn heaps more cheerful than Uncle Jo.

Soren wrote on May 7^th, 2009 at 10:29pm:

Sounds like he sprang from Gogol's overcoat (like all of us) and has read Aristotle with a sympathetic eye.

Soren it’s very complex and depends on personal preferences.
Due to their culture, training and preference for strictly rational way of thinking English ( Anglo-Saxons ) have lots of difficulties to understand Dostoyevski and Eastern way of thinking.
Generally speaking Reason is important but not universal solution to satisfy all our existential and spiritual needs.
The problem with Western  humanism is that entirely relies on reason, which is quite normal considering that as a “religion” places Human in the centre of universe instead God which naturally leads to another “religion” called Atheism.
One think we know for sure that we humans are all imperfect and live in the world of relativity.
Absolute perfection can not be relative, but can be used as a moral reference point for our actions.
Eastern and Western way of thinking are very much different.
The western philosophy is primarily based on logic and reason ( manly Aristotles syllogism), as result of this could be very scholastic, framed and even boring.
On the other hand Eastern philosophy equally recognises intuition and inspiration as well as logic and reason.
To simplify this we may say that there is “Knowledge of the west and wisdom of the east”. It is very good to know both for our own benefit.
Western civilised world and knowledge is much younger then eastern wisdom.
For example reason is definitely superior in mathematics or physics but when we come to moral issues it can be very week and immoral.
So what Dostoyevsky did in “Crime and punishment” and “Brother Karamazovs” ( Grand inquisitor),
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75RPJ-OHmEI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMSjj...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaIA0...eature=related
he actually disclosed weakness of reason as universal answer for everything.
Raskolnikov using reason perfectly justified his act of killing old lady.
Grand Inquisitor used reason to perfectly justify his moral stand in sentencing Christ.  Using the reason Madeleine Albright justified killing 1 000 000 Iraqi children
http://video.yahoo.com/watch/2568431/7676319  and so on.

That’s why Dostoyevski simply said:
“If God is dead then everything is permitted”.
So Dostoyevski represents Eastern way of thinking that assumes: Reason, intuition and inspiration.
For example Shakespeare (Hamlet) is great but in comparison with Dostoyevski sounds like just another great Mathematician.

Dostoevsky was westerner. He did not write about eastern things like Buddhism or Taoism etc. With all that he was a depression ridden maniac due to bad weather, bad vodka and bad system of eastern type of despotism inherited from Mongolian domination when Russia was political baby.

tallowood wrote on May 7^th, 2009 at 11:27pm:

Dostoevsky was westerner. He did not write about eastern things like Buddhism or Taoism etc. With all that he was a depression ridden maniac due to bad weather, bad vodka and bad system of eastern type of despotism inherited from Mongolian domination when Russia was political baby.

Ok, ok don't be angry I thought we made a peace.
Hey Tall son what I can do to make happy?
Do you want a new car, Blond chick tell me boy I'll do everything to help you. I am very compassionate man.

athos wrote on May 7^th, 2009 at 11:34pm:

tallowood wrote on May 7th, 2009 at 11:27pm: Dostoevsky was westerner. He did not write about eastern things like Buddhism or Taoism etc. With all that he was a depression ridden maniac due to bad weather, bad vodka and bad system of eastern type of despotism inherited from Mongolian domination when Russia was political baby. Ok, ok don't be angry I thought we made a peace. Hey Tall son what I can do to make happy? Do you want a new car, Blond chick tell me boy I'll do everything to help you. I am very compassionate man.

I'm not angry, dear boy, I'm educating you about real Russian culture and arts.
You can shout me some fine Italian wines or even better some grape cuttings so I can propagate the best of the best in our Australian homeland.

tallowood wrote on May 7^th, 2009 at 11:42pm:

athos wrote on May 7th, 2009 at 11:34pm: tallowood wrote on May 7th, 2009 at 11:27pm: Dostoevsky was westerner. He did not write about eastern things like Buddhism or Taoism etc. With all that he was a depression ridden maniac due to bad weather, bad vodka and bad system of eastern type of despotism inherited from Mongolian domination when Russia was political baby. Ok, ok don't be angry I thought we made a peace. Hey Tall son what I can do to make happy? Do you want a new car, Blond chick tell me boy I'll do everything to help you. I am very compassionate man. I'm not angry, dear boy, I'm educating you about real Russian culture and arts. You can shout me some fine Italian wines or even better some grape cuttings so I can propagate the best of the best in our Australian homeland.

If you want I can give you recopies for the best pasta sauce in the world.
Once when you try it you want forget it for the rest of your life.
Guaranteed all fresh ingredients, it's very good for your prostate.

athos wrote on May 8^th, 2009 at 9:23pm:

tallowood wrote on May 7th, 2009 at 11:42pm: athos wrote on May 7th, 2009 at 11:34pm: tallowood wrote on May 7th, 2009 at 11:27pm: Dostoevsky was westerner. He did not write about eastern things like Buddhism or Taoism etc. With all that he was a depression ridden maniac due to bad weather, bad vodka and bad system of eastern type of despotism inherited from Mongolian domination when Russia was political baby. Ok, ok don't be angry I thought we made a peace. Hey Tall son what I can do to make happy? Do you want a new car, Blond chick tell me boy I'll do everything to help you. I am very compassionate man. I'm not angry, dear boy, I'm educating you about real Russian culture and arts. You can shout me some fine Italian wines or even better some grape cuttings so I can propagate the best of the best in our Australian homeland. If you want I can give you recopies for the best pasta sauce in the world. Once when you try it you want forget it for the rest of your life. Guaranteed all fresh ingredients, it's very good for your prostate.

I liked the original recipe that the Venice rogue Marko brought back from Cathay. But when in Naples Uni I had a go at pasta marinara and it was so superb. Then again when in Rome I eat what Romans do.... The Bella Italia is superb at conquering barbarians bellies and minds and that is true and nothing but the true.
Yet when back home in Au I love my "shrimps on BBQ" and my smoked mullet with pontiac spuds and green beans fresh of my garden.
I think I'm spoiled.

athos wrote on May 7^th, 2009 at 11:08pm:

The problem with Western  humanism is that entirely relies on reason, which is quite normal considering that as a “religion” places Human in the centre of universe instead God which naturally leads to another “religion” called Atheism. One think we know for sure that we humans are all imperfect and live in the world of relativity. ... The western philosophy is primarily based on logic and reason ( manly Aristotles syllogism), as result of this could be very scholastic, framed and even boring. On the other hand Eastern philosophy equally recognises intuition and inspiration as well as logic and reason. To simplify this we may say that there is “Knowledge of the west and wisdom of the east”. It is very good to know both for our own benefit. Western civilised world and knowledge is much younger then eastern wisdom. For example reason is definitely superior in mathematics or physics but when we come to moral issues it can be very week and immoral.

The West has plenty of mystics, intuitive thinking (see literature and poetry) and so I think your dichotomy is false, although widespread.

The west does temper its mysticims by reason - and as ever, is a model to follow or resist.

That is the bind for the east (or the non-western generally) -it can either resist or follow. But it can never lead. The west wll invent, adopt, incorporate, re-invent. The east does the adopting and incorporating but not the nventing or the re-inventing.

The east is a driver of nothing. China can make thinks cheaper (and Japan before it).  But nothing new comes out of China except exotica. Nothing new comes out of the east. The east is old, voluptuous and reactionary.

Russia was geatest when it was least 'Russian', in the 19th century. After that it was only its exiles and dissidents who were of any note. The Arabs have not had a new idea of their own in 700 years. Or the Chinese, Indians, Thais and the whole of Africa.

athos wrote on May 7^th, 2009 at 11:34pm:

tallowood wrote on May 7th, 2009 at 11:27pm: Dostoevsky was westerner. He did not write about eastern things like Buddhism or Taoism etc. With all that he was a depression ridden maniac due to bad weather, bad vodka and bad system of eastern type of despotism inherited from Mongolian domination when Russia was political baby. Ok, ok don't be angry I thought we made a peace. Hey Tall son what I can do to make happy? Do you want a new car, Blond chick tell me boy I'll do everything to help you. I am very compassionate man.

Ok, please give me detailed description how your people make bottarga.

Soren wrote on May 7^th, 2009 at 9:41pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 4th, 2009 at 8:41pm: And believe or prefer to believe that beautiful people tell the truth. Did you make that up yourself? This not even pop psychology.

Buy much toothpaste on the advice ugly old hags in an advert do you?

Athos, please give me detailed description how your people make bottarga.

I need it as soon as possible.

tallowood wrote on May 9^th, 2009 at 9:50pm:

Athos, please give me detailed description how your people make bottarga. I need it as soon as possible.

Here it is:
http://fishcooking.about.com/od/smokebrine/ss/bottarga.htm
Listen personally I am not big fan of bottarga maybe because of its saltiness.

I am expert for one of the best and simplest Pasta source, when you try this you will be amassed.

You need:
- 1.0 kg of fresh pomoadori (tomato)
-  Squeezed three slices of garlic( or tiny cut ).
- about quarter to half of bunch basal leaves ( or as you like )

Procedure

1.      Put tomato in boiling water for about 5 minutes until starts pealing itself
2.      Pour cold water on the tomato and pealed skin
3.      Cut tomato in little pieces and add salt.
4.      Put little olive oil on the pan until become reasonably hot.
5.      Put squeezed garlic in the pan and stir it for a few minutes
6.      Add cut tomato and cook for about 20 min occasionally stirring.
7.      Add small cut basil leaves, cover and leave it to cool down for about 10 min.      

There is no comparison with those artificial full of preservatives sources from the supermarket

Mate it’s really beautiful fresh taste real taste of Italy. Try it, you want be sorry and also it’ll be nice surprise for your girlfriend or wife. You can leave some in the fridge for next day.
The whole operation won’t take more than ½ hr.

athos wrote on May 9^th, 2009 at 10:32pm:

tallowood wrote on May 9th, 2009 at 9:50pm: Athos, please give me detailed description how your people make bottarga. I need it as soon as possible. Here it is: http://fishcooking.about.com/od/smokebrine/ss/bottarga.htm Listen personally I am not big fan of bottarga maybe because of its saltiness. I am expert for one of the best and simplest Pasta source, when you try this you will be amassed. You need: - 1.0 kg of fresh pomoadori (tomato) -  Squeezed three slices of garlic( or tiny cut ). - about quarter to half of bunch basal leaves ( or as you like ) Procedure 1.      Put tomato in boiling water for about 5 minutes until starts pealing itself 2.      Pour cold water on the tomato and pealed skin 3.      Cut tomato in little pieces and add salt. 4.      Put little olive oil on the pan until become reasonably hot. 5.      Put squeezed garlic in the pan and stir it for a few minutes 6.      Add cut tomato and cook for about 20 min occasionally stirring. 7.      Add small cut basil leaves, cover and leave it to cool down for about 10 min.       There is no comparison with those artificial full of preservatives sources from the supermarket Mate it’s really beautiful fresh taste real taste of Italy. Try it, you want be sorry and also it’ll be nice surprise for your girlfriend or wife. You can leave some in the fridge for next day. The whole operation won’t take more than ½ hr.

Great link, thanks. I like Italian antipasta, think it is the name.
Looks like I did first batch not quiet right but I have more fresh roe in fridge from today's catch.

Thanks again.

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 9^th, 2009 at 9:23pm:

Soren wrote on May 7th, 2009 at 9:41pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on May 4th, 2009 at 8:41pm: And believe or prefer to believe that beautiful people tell the truth. Did you make that up yourself? This not even pop psychology. Buy much toothpaste on the advice ugly old hags in an advert do you?

Some mighty mental leaps there, champ, I am aftraid I cannot follow you. Never mind, you go ahead and leap about as you please. I'll stay on the ground ands will be here whenever you land.

Soren wrote on May 10^th, 2009 at 11:20pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 9th, 2009 at 9:23pm: Soren wrote on May 7th, 2009 at 9:41pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on May 4th, 2009 at 8:41pm: And believe or prefer to believe that beautiful people tell the truth. Did you make that up yourself? This not even pop psychology. Buy much toothpaste on the advice ugly old hags in an advert do you? Some mighty mental leaps there, champ, I am aftraid I cannot follow you. Never mind, you go ahead and leap about as you please. I'll stay on the ground ands will be here whenever you land.

It's the beautiful people we wanna believe.