Multiculti is the preservation of cultural identity amid the enemy state to some nationalities and cultures.  particularly those opposed to the Western way of life.

http://jimball.com.au/Features/Islamident.htm


Quote:

Finally there is a solution guaranteed to remove the risks, and that is to remove oneself from amongst the disbelievers. It is therefore unavoidable that as long as we live here we will, through a process of cultural osmosis, take on some of the characteristics of the Kuffar. The likeness of Islam and Kuffar is like that o f fresh clear spring water and water brought up from the bottom of a suburban sewer. If even a drop of the filthy water enters the clear water, the clarity diminishes. Likewise it only takes a drop of the filth of disbelief to contaminate Islam in the West. If we have it within our means we should therefore consider moving to a Muslim lan d whereby we can at least live amongst our brethren and within an Islamic society free from the contamination of the disbelievers.

Grendel wrote on May 18^th, 2009 at 10:23am:

Multiculti is the preservation of cultural identity amid the enemy state to some nationalities and cultures.  particularly those opposed to the Western way of life. http://jimball.com.au/Features/Islamident.htm Quote: Finally there is a solution guaranteed to remove the risks, and that is to remove oneself from amongst the disbelievers. It is therefore unavoidable that as long as we live here we will, through a process of cultural osmosis, take on some of the characteristics of the Kuffar. The likeness of Islam and Kuffar is like that o f fresh clear spring water and water brought up from the bottom of a suburban sewer. If even a drop of the filthy water enters the clear water, the clarity diminishes. Likewise it only takes a drop of the filth of disbelief to contaminate Islam in the West. If we [moslems] have it within our means we should therefore consider moving to a Muslim land whereby we can at least live amongst our brethren and within an Islamic society free from the contamination of the disbelievers.

And i say "Aye!!" to that proposition!            ::)


I have no objection to ppl coming to live in Australia, from moslem nations,
....IF THEY COME HERE TO ENJOY OUR LIFESTYLE AND CULTURE.

And isn't that the real reason many 'moslems' come to the West?

To escape the failed culture, that is ISLAM?

No?

Is there one nation in the world, where ISLAM is a good, meritorious, example to mankind???

Proverbs 29:2
When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.







Proverbs 14:34
Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people.



"Righteousness exalteth a nation:"?


Is there even one ISLAMIC nation which has been exalted by God?

Dictionary,
exalted = =
1 at a high level.
2 (of an idea) noble; lofty.
3 extremely happy.


Name one ISLAMIC nation in our age, which is a byword for justice and righteousness,
.....where the local moslem ppl are happy!








Proverbs 29:2
When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7122/1469/200/d26f.jpg
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7122/1469/200/e949.jpg
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7122/1469/320/1-%20Hanging%20Iran%20-%20c%20Men%20cry%20too.jpg
Man cries at a public execution - Iran
http://difficultimages.blogspot.com/2006/04/cruel-islam-and-iran-is-worst.html

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Printable.aspx?ArtId=2578


Quote:

I would never have believed on 9/11 that in 2006, most Europeans would still be surprised to learn – to pluck two examples at random – that over seven in ten immigrant women in Sweden (according to an EU study) are affected by “honor-related violence” and that Jewish children (according to a French government report) “can no longer get an education” in France because of abuse by Muslim classmates.  Some law-enforcement authorities have already thrown in the towel: in 2004, Swedish police admitted they “have no control over the situation in Malmö,” a city plagued by Muslim rapes and robberies; this August, after a Muslim gang shootout in Oslo, police said they were “reluctant to crack down on the gangs out of fear for their own safety.” On 9/11, the free world was powerfully reminded of its freedom.  In Europe, alas, that day’s spirit has been steamrollered by an establishment that – apparently having already accepted the inevitability of Europe’s Islamization – routinely turn the truth on its head, representing aggressors as victims and self-defense as inflammatory.  That upside-down picture needs to be set aright, and the spirit of 9/11 resurrected.  For the bottom line is simple: if we don’t cherish our liberties with the fervor that the jihadists treasure their faith, we’ll lose.

Grendel wrote on May 18^th, 2009 at 12:01pm:

.....the inevitability of Europe’s Islamization – routinely turn the truth on its head, representing aggressors as victims and self-defense as inflammatory.....

This is very true.

Don't you see it yet ppl?

What all of our moral appeasement gets us?


In this world...
BLACK IS WHITE, AND WHITE IS BLACK.
UP IS DOWN, AND DOWN IS UP.


We must learn again, to discern between GOOD, and EVIL.

.....but i'm not holding my breath!






++++++++++






Isaiah 28:15
Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
16  Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
17  Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
18  And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

Why do the extreme god bothering Christians hate other religion so much?
:D

Islamaphobia, alive and well in this forum, I wonder why fd let a perfectly good political forum turn into a loony neo con bible bashing convention?

Well obviously your exaggerating again Squibbly....  please don't waste everybody's time if you cannot address the arguments.

Grendel wrote on May 18^th, 2009 at 4:03pm:

Well obviously your exaggerating again Squibbly....  please don't waste everybody's time if you cannot address the arguments.

You are only a very small tool in the scheme of things pup, soren and yadda are mush more dangerous than you, tho I hope you are all being monitored for your extreme beliefs.

Everybody's isn't a word puppy it's two words, every body's.

I don't have extreme beliefs...
Whereas you lie.

Everybody

Ev"er*y*bod`y\, n. Every person.

oh dear wrong again Squippo.


::)  You bore me...

Grendel wrote on May 18^th, 2009 at 4:20pm:

I don't have extreme beliefs... Whereas you lie. Everybody Ev"er*y*bod`y\, n. Every person. oh dear wrong again Squippo. ::)  You bore me...

No its two words ,dumb bugger.

Grendel wrote on May 18^th, 2009 at 4:03pm:

Well obviously your exaggerating again Squibbly....  please don't waste everybody's time if you cannot address the arguments.

You have also used the word your when clearly it should be you're, you aren't very good at what you preach are you pups? but don't worry now that I know you are so concerned about it I will point out any mistakes I find for you at no charge.

wrote on May 18^th, 2009 at 4:16pm:

Grendel wrote on May 18th, 2009 at 4:03pm: Well obviously your exaggerating again Squibbly....  please don't waste everybody's time if you cannot address the arguments. You are only a very small tool in the scheme of things pup, soren and yadda are mush more dangerous than you, tho I hope you are all being monitored for your extreme beliefs. Everybody's isn't a word puppy it's two words, every body's.

You obviously think that our law enforcement agencies have far far more resources than they actually do.

I very often cant be bothered with spelling and especially the your you're thing Squippo...  you are going to be very busy.

Water off a duck's back buddy.  ;D ;D ;D

Grendel wrote on May 18^th, 2009 at 4:54pm:

I very often cant be bothered with spelling and especially the your you're thing Squippo...  you are going to be very busy. Water off a duck's back buddy.  ;D ;D ;D

Oh how fickle boof, and here I was thinking that spelling was important to you , seeing as tho you made a big deal out of it only a couple of posts ago.

Never been a spelling nazi Squippo, add it to the list of things you are wrong about.

Oh I hardly think pointing out your mistake in one word after years of reading your crap is a guide to importance or making a big deal of your spelling.  paranoid?

pls do stop the inanities eh...  I don't mind a decent debate...  but you are just wasting my time.

wrote on May 18^th, 2009 at 3:54pm:

Why do the extreme god bothering Christians hate other religion(s) so much?

skippy,

I take it that [in your statement] you are referring to myself.

And i would state, that you are portraying an incorrect 'attribution' to me, skip.

But go your hardest.


skippy,

You are mistaken.

I am happy to allow others to choose, and to follow a religion, different from my own.




Whereas, the 'religion' of ISLAM [which i do condemn, and criticise] insists that [if i were to come under its influence] i must not worship any god except Allah, or that i must worship MY God, according to how ISLAM will allow me to do so,
....on pain of death.

The Hadith....

"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' ...."
bukhari 004.052.196

skippy,

Many ppl, including myself, regard ISLAM not as a religion, but as a political philosophy, which uses its 'religious' aspect, as a 'veil' to hide its true temporal, worldly, political nature.





Quote:

Islamaphobia, alive and well in this forum,

Definition,
ISLAMOPHOBIA = = an irrational fear of ISLAM.



Ignorant, ignorant skippy,

What is irrational about fearing a [political] philosophy [ISLAM] which endorses, and encourages, in its adherents, the hatred of, and the murder of, non-members of that [political] philosophy?

Duh.

ISLAM is a political philosophy which uses lies, deception, and violence to seek to gain temporal, worldly, political power, over those men and women not yet under its influence.

ISLAM is not a 'religion'.

ISLAM, is a fascist state, a political tyranny.







Quote:

I wonder why fd let a perfectly good political forum turn into a loony neo con bible bashing convention?

If a person is not permitted to say things, in a political forum [such as OzPol], which others may consider offensive, then,
.....FREEDOM OF SPEECH in that forum,
.....is what you, DO *NOT* HAVE.


skip,

Why shouldn't contentious issues be discussed on a 'good political forum'?

Are you suggesting that we should only be allowed to express views which do not offend ISLAM-o-philes, and ppl with views and perspectives such as your own skip?

That would be a very sad day, wouldn't it???




In attacking my views, this philosophy, is what skippy defends....

ISLAM's [Allah's] response to dissent, against ISLAM....

"....whenever [TRUTH speakers, critics of ISLAM] are found, they shall be seized and slain (without mercy)."
koran 33.061
v. 60, 61






FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS SELF REGULATING

FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS THE GUARDIAN OF FREE SOCIETIES

Open societies do not fear the opinions of fools.
....they rather, EXPOSE and laugh at folly!

In any free and open debate, if a 'position' is absurd, if an 'argument' is absurd,
...then the debater is [often] condemned to all, WITH HIS OWN WORDS.

And that result [i.e. the exposure of folly] is THE VERY FUNCTION, of free and open debate.

Free and open debate *is meant* to be A CONTEST OF IDEAS!
....where every folly is revealed.

And open debate is healthy, to all general freedoms in a society.

Whereas, lies are easily concealed in closed societies,
....*because* these closed societies are places where lies, and falsehood,
....ARE NEVER EXPOSED TO SCRUTINY, OR SPOKEN TRUTH.

Skippy doesn't "get" much Yadda and all he can do in reply is what you've seen.  I wouldn't hold much faith in him ever learning anything.  Or recognising the truth when confronted by it.

Grendel wrote on May 19^th, 2009 at 10:47am:

Skippy doesn't "get" much Yadda and all he can do in reply is what you've seen.  I wouldn't hold much faith in him ever learning anything.  Or recognising the truth when confronted by it.

More flames from boofy, he likes to act high and mighty but he just can't help himself.

Now to some real debate

Yadda, It doesn't so much bother me that you believe in some god, my problem is that you condemn others for doing the same.
I don't believe in any god, I think you are all crazy, and I can find just as many Christians with bent belief as I can Muslims.
You see the problem with religion and unlike you I class Islam as a religion is that every body thinks their religion is the one true religion and the rest are wrong, if there was  a god, and I'm certain there is not, I reckon he'd think people who carried on like you were more of a hindrance than a help in recruiting us non believers.

Actually I was talking to Yadda.  Not you.

Oh BTW...  thanks for proving my point.

;D ;D ;D

Grendel wrote on May 19^th, 2009 at 3:04pm:

Actually I was talking to Yadda.  Not you. Oh BTW...  thanks for proving my point. ;D ;D ;D

So was I ::) but I expect that to go right over your head.

yawn

Grendel wrote on May 19^th, 2009 at 5:18pm:

yawn

You're not very truthful are you? 1 minute ago you said you would not reply to me, and here you are, if you don't have something other than trolling to add to the debate, pizz off.

wrote on May 19^th, 2009 at 1:01pm:

Now to some real debate Yadda, It doesn't so much bother me that you believe in some god, my problem is that you condemn others for doing the same [...for believing in some god]....

skip,

READ MY LIPS...., previously i, Yadda, said....


Quote:

skippy, You are mistaken. I am happy to allow others to choose, and to follow a religion, different from my own.

That was a direct quote, from what i wrote higher in this thread, ......here,

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1242606209/15#15

skip,

I'm sure you read the words, but clearly you don't understand the words?

Problems with comprehension?



'Now to some real debate.'






Quote:

I don't believe in any god, I think you are all crazy.......if there was  a god, and I'm certain there is not....

skip,

Now we'll test my own comprehension skills.

skip does not believe in any God.

And skip is certain; There is not a God.

How am i doing?






Next, skip believes that ISLAM is a religion.


Quote:

......unlike you I class Islam as a religion....

Dictionary,
religion = = the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.....a particular system of faith and worship.

skip,

Note the word, 'worship'.

Q.
skip, how do moslems 'worship' their god?

A.
Simply put, moslems are exhorted to 'worship' their god by following the example, and urgings, of ISLAM's founder, and 'prophet', Mohammed.

Here are some 'examples' from ISLAM's own 'religious' texts....

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88; Narrated Ursa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

Volume 8, Book 82, Number 795; Narrated Anas: The Prophet cut off the hands and feet of the men belonging to the tribe of Uraina and did not cauterise (their bleeding limbs) till they died.

Volume 2, Book 23, Number 413; Narrated Abdullah bin Umar: The Jews {of Medina} brought to the Prophet a man and a woman from amongst them who have committed (adultery) illegal sexual intercourse. He ordered both of them to be stoned (to death), near the place of offering the funeral prayers beside the mosque.

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57; Narrated Ikrima: Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to Ali {the fourth Caliph} and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, "Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire)." I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, "Whoever changes his Islamic religion, then kill him."

Volume 1, Book 2, Number 25; Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)?" He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause."




skip,

Within ISLAM's 'religious' texts, it is also here [below], recorded how Mohammed sought out a fellow moslem, to perform an ISLAMIC 'religious' duty....
.....the murder of a critic of ISLAM.

In the following Hadith, is described, how Mohammed himself [the founder of ISLAM] secures the *political* assassination [....and not the only one!!] of an early critic of ISLAM.....

"Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who *has hurt Allah* and His Apostle?"....."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/059.sbt.html#005.059.369

skip,

That account, was of a straight out *political* assassination, organised by Mohammed, the 'prophet' of ISLAM!

And skip, here is the question i always like to ask of moslems about that account in the Hadith....

If Allah is an all powerful god, how could a mere man, Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf, have *hurt* Allah, who is an all powerful god [as stated in the Hadith]?

That is what the Hadith says, Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf *has hurt Allah*.

Well, poor, poor, Allah.



skip,

Lets test your comprehension skills again.

Well skip, do you suppose that Allah is an all powerful god, and that ISLAM is a religion?

Or is ISLAM just a mafia gang of malcontent's, who despise the critics of ISLAM,
......AND SEEK TO MURDER THEM ?

Reminder...
ISLAM's [Allah's] response to human dissent, against ISLAM....

"....whenever [TRUTH speakers, critics of ISLAM] are found, they shall be seized and slain (without mercy)."
koran 33.061
v. 60, 61





Question skip,

Instead of displaying your utter ignorance on this forum, about that political philosophy [masquerading as a religion], the one called ISLAM.....


Quote:

......unlike you I class Islam as a religion....

skip,
.....why don't you seek to educate yourself about ISLAM first,
.....before you offer an opinion on this forum about an organisation,
.....which you obviously know very little about???

Here is a good place to start.....

Islam 101
http://www.jihadwatch.org/islam101/

Yadda if you are such an Islamaphobic that you deny Islam is even a religion you are a much bigger retard than I first thought.
Australia is a free country to live in, we are not some religious run state, and we would be a much better country if retards who believed in fairy tales didn't live here.
You ever thought about moving to the USA? there are plenty of retards who believe in the same s hit as you there, you'd fit in just fine.
Oh, and please don't quote any more of your fractured fairy tales to me, only major retards believe in god.

wrote on May 20^th, 2009 at 9:15am:

Yadda if you are such an Islamaphobic that you deny Islam is even a religion you are a much bigger retard than I first thought. Australia is a free country to live in, we are not some religious run state, and we would be a much better country if retards who believed in fairy tales didn't live here. You ever thought about moving to the USA? there are plenty of retards who believe in the same s hit as you there, you'd fit in just fine. Oh, and please don't quote any more of your fractured fairy tales to me, only major retards believe in god.

skippy,

There is only one of us living in la-la land.

The one who won't face up to, and who won't acknowledge, the undeniable TRUTH.



This word is ACTUALLY in my dictionary,
la-la land = =
1 Los Angeles or Hollywood, especially with regard to the film and television industry.
2 a dreamworld.



Just keep on denying the TRUTH skip, for whatever reason you feel that you must.

And when you eventually leave this place, and you 'wake up', you can explain to someone who cares, why you lived your life, hating him,
....the TRUTH.






++++++







John 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.


John 1:9
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10  He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11  He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12  But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13  Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

::) ::)There you go again with the fractured fairy tales, a hundred years ago or so I can understand people believing in gods, most people had very little education, but to be banging on about gods and quoting fractured fairy tales in 2009 is nothing short of insane. ::)

wrote on May 20^th, 2009 at 10:12am:

::) ::)There you go again with the fractured fairy tales, a hundred years ago or so I can understand people believing in gods, most people had very little education, but to be banging on about gods and quoting fractured fairy tales in 2009 is nothing short of insane. ::)

We'll see.             ;)






Further up in this thread skip, you said that you were certain that there is no God.

Wow!, you haven't met a God.

And you are therefore certain, that a God does not exist!!






That is a very un-scientific approach to logical reasoning skip.

i.e.
"I don't know something,
.....Therefore, .....what i don't know, doesn't exist!!!'

Thoughts from skip, the one who [in his own mind] knows how to debate.

Duh.                ;D           ;D           ;D

Woo hoo, that's it see, you can write a post without all the fairy tale quotes.

i believe in facts, I've had this same argument with many god botherers. I even had a couple of those jehovah's witness at the door one day, I was a bit bored so I thought I'd play with them. Anyway my biggest shock out of the conversation was that they believed dinosaurs were fairy tales like Santa and the Easter bunny, they said the world was only 5 thousand years old and that if I believed in dinosaurs I probably believed in the Easter bunny too.
What do you believe yadda?

wrote on May 20^th, 2009 at 10:39am:

Woo hoo, that's it see, you can write a post without all the fairy tale quotes. i believe in facts, I've had this same argument with many god botherers. I even had a couple of those jehovah's witness at the door one day, I was a bit bored so I thought I'd play with them. Anyway my biggest shock out of the conversation was that they believed dinosaurs were fairy tales like Santa and the Easter bunny, they said the world was only 5 thousand years old and that if I believed in dinosaurs I probably believed in the Easter bunny too. What do you believe yadda?

skippy,

I don't believe in radio waves.

People tell me that those radio waves are everywhere, all around us!

But when i step outside, i can't see em.

Therefore, they obviously don't exist.

And anyone who say's that radio waves do exist, is a retard.

That is what i believe.
/sarc off




p.s.
I also believe, that debating ppl with closed minds, is pointless.

Instead, let them follow their own path.




The fool,

Psalms 7:15
He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made.

Ha, closed minds, your mind is closed yadda but if you get out there and ask questions you'll find many people have moved on from your fractured fairy tale existence.
So, you believe in dinosaurs or not? how old is the world in your eyes? I need to know these things before we can move forward with an education that is a little more advanced than your 18th century beliefs.

skippy, i don't believe in "the fossil record",
....NOT AS IT IS PRESENTED BY 'SCIENTISTS' TODAY.

Yes, there *are* fossils being dug up.

But how can science be certain that those dinosaurs lived hundreds of millions of years ago?

In my opinion, all of the 'science' which supports such a hypothesis, is just another form of 'religious belief'.

i.e. THE DATING OF FOSSILS, BEING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF YEARS OLD, IS AN UNPROVEN SCIENCE [IN EFFECT, IT IS ANOTHER 'RELIGIOUS' BELIEF SYSTEM]

And the high priests of this 'religion' are 'scientists'.




Some 'God botherers' [like myself] believe that dinosaurs may have lived with man, before the flood.

And, there is plenty of real evidence, to support a created universe.

But most ppl loves sweet lies.

People generally, hate the TRUTH, because the TRUTH, makes themselves responsible for what they see around them.

And they don't like those feelings.

So they, turn away,
......from the TRUTH.





skippy,

Don't put all your faith in 'modern science'.

Many of those [supposed] 'scientists' have an agenda, to keep you ignorant, for many reasons.

Much of the scientific fraud being perpetrated today, has to do with securing careers, and with MONEY, and with securing grants [a livelihood].

And the TRUTH gets in the way, of those agendas of men.

A nice quote comes to mind...

"He that serves [his] God for money, will serve the Devil for better wages."
Sir Roger L’Estrange

And that quote can equally apply to those who call themselves, 'scientists'.


Google,
scientific fraud
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=scientific+fraud+&btnG=Google+Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=





skip,

HERE IS SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT.

"A Tyrannosaurus rex fossil has yielded what appear to be the only preserved soft tissues ever recovered from a dinosaur. Taken from a 70-MILLION-YEAR-OLD THIGHBONE, the structures look like the blood vessels, cells, and proteins involved in bone formation."

Soft tissue taken from a 70-MILLION-YEAR-OLD THIGHBONE of a T-rex???

What poppycock!

Google....
soft tissue t-rex
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=soft+tissue+t-rex&btnG=Google+Search&meta=


Item at the National Geographic Society site....
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/03/0324_050324_trexsofttissue.html


According to modern science, SOFT TISSUE from a T-rex has survived for 70-MILLION-YEARS.

skip, do you also believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden????

What ya gonna believe???

You choose.

And, we all *do* choose.





skip,

Do you really, really, believe that SOFT TISSUE from a T-rex has survived for 70-MILLION-YEARS???

Its a simple question.

THINK FOR YOURSELF!






Now Yadda, reverts to quoting 'fairy tails'......


Romans 1:21
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22  Professing themselves to be wise, THEY BECAME FOOLS,


1 Corinthians 1:21
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.


Psalms 25:14
The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.


Psalms 40:4
Blessed is that man that maketh the LORD his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.

I can see you're gunna need a lot of work, but don't dismay, I've had cases as bad as you before.
Now, it seems you do believe in dinosaurs but you still believe the world is only 5 thousand years old, is that right?

Your problem there is that many remains from around 5 thousand years ago have been unearthed and their age verified,just like many dinosaur bones have been found and dated  the fact you try to discredit this is  a sure sign you are turning facts around to suit your belief.
I have no problem with someone who believes the bible 100% as it is written, its the ones who try to re write history and take on the bits that fit in with the modern times who are a major problem.
Fact, dinosaurs existed as did many other animals  millions of years before humans, note that word MILLIONS not THOUSANDS as you believe the world is only 5 thousand years old.
Did you go to school in Australia? my seven year old has a better understanding of life than you seem to, you must have failed lots of classes with your belief the world is only 5 thousand years old.
At least we don't teach this creationist poo in schools anymore, hopefully the next generation will have far fewer dills than your generation does.

skippy,


I refer you to my statement, made in this post,

"Multiculti - preserve cultural id amid enemies"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1242606209/28#28

wrote on May 20^th, 2009 at 11:04am:

Ha, closed minds, your mind is closed yadda but if you get out there and ask questions you'll find many people have moved on from your fractured fairy tale existence. So, you believe in dinosaurs or not? how old is the world in your eyes? I need to know these things before we can move forward with an education that is a little more advanced than your 18th century beliefs.

I don't believe what yadda believes about religion, I do believe what he believes about the extreme danger of Islam. And so do Russians, Serbs, Phillippinos, Lebanese Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Nigerian Christians, Sudanese Christians, and many many more people who now live in Australia that have observed and lived and know first hand exactly what Islam is really about.

One of them said to me, a week ago,


Quote:

'you cannot let Australia become like Lebanon, you just can't. Even if you need to call out the army, do it. In Lebanon, we thought we were friends with the muslims too, until it was too late and we had christians had to leave...now they have followed us here and it starts all over again....

You are completely clueless Skippy, you have no idea what you are talking about, and think that Islam is just Catholic Mass in Arabic. Read something and get a clue, and talk from facts and evidence and not just your usual multiculti kumbaya bs with a sprinkling of moral relativism thrown in.

This place is going to fall apart like every other Islamic invaded country if we do not stand up very quickly and stop it. If you don't want to help, then get out of the way. Plenty of well connected people, powerful people, see what is happening and want to stop it too. Just because the PC brigade are the loudest, doesnt make them the most popular.

;DCalanen, I treat all religion with disdain, I in no way support Islam, Judaism or Christianity, they're all as bad as each other.
To make it a bit clearer for you , whilst you hate Islam and it seems Muslims in general, I hate all religion, not the followers but the organised religion themselves.
Rather than take offence at your remarks I quite like them, I might include them in my avatar.

"I'm a multiculti Kumbaya with a sprinkling of moral relativism thrown in" ha ha ha ha ha  ;D ;D

wrote on May 20^th, 2009 at 12:54pm:

;DCalanen, I treat all religion with disdain, I in no way support Islam, Judaism or Christianity, they're all as bad as each other. To make it a bit clearer for you , whilst you hate Islam and it seems Muslims in general, I hate all religion, not the followers but the organised religion themselves. Rather than take offence at your remarks I quite like them, I might include them in my avatar. "I'm a multiculti Kumbaya with a sprinkling of moral relativism thrown in" ha ha ha ha ha  ;D ;D

skippy,

My place this w/e.

We're throwing a few T-Rex steaks on the BBQ.

Come along, a good time will be had all.







Quote:

skip, Do you really, really, believe that SOFT TISSUE from a T-rex has survived for 70-MILLION-YEARS??? Its a simple question.

What's the matter skip?

Can't respond to reality, when what is real doesn't conform, align, with your own perceptions,
.....of your la-la land ?            ;D



Just suck it up skip.       8-)

Its going to get a lot worse!!!

NO, so what?
Do you believe scientists have dug up bones of animals that no longer exist?
I care not for your fantasies about soft tissue, this is a great example of why you and the likes of you are so dangerous to society, in order to live your little fairy tale you deny what is not only proven fact but  physical proof.
Soft tissue does not matter, there is plenty of physical evidence to prove the earth is much more then 5 thousand years old.

wrote on May 20^th, 2009 at 1:38pm:

Do you believe scientists have dug up bones of animals that no longer exist?

Of course i do.






Quote:

I care not for your fantasies about soft tissue, this is a great example of why you and the likes of you are so dangerous to society, in order to live your little fairy tale you deny what is not only proven fact but  physical proof. Soft tissue does not matter, there is plenty of physical evidence to prove the earth is much more then 5 thousand years old.

Twaddle.


FACT #1

No-one, i repeat, no-one, can prove that the earth is millions, or billions, of years old.


FACT #2

And no-one, can prove that dinosaur bones, which have been found, are millions of years old.

Such a contention is a 'scientific' fable, which many simple ppl WANT TO BELIEVE.

The simple people are the retards who believe the world is only 5 thousand years old, even with all the proof, they still deny the physical facts.
Where are your physical facts of a god? oh thats right, you believe in fairy tales written by people 1500 to 2000 years ago who never even new your saviour yet when physical facts are put before you ,you boo hoo them, I'll bet your teachers at school couldn't wait to get rid of you, oh someone as demented in their belief as you probably went to a bible bashing fest for a school. 8-)

wrote on May 20^th, 2009 at 1:58pm:

The simple people are the retards who believe the world is only 5 thousand years old, even with all the proof, they still deny the physical facts. Where are your physical facts of a god? oh thats right, you believe in fairy tales written by people 1500 to 2000 years ago who never even new your saviour yet when physical facts are put before you ,you boo hoo them, I'll bet your teachers at school couldn't wait to get rid of you, oh someone as demented in their belief as you probably went to a bible bashing fest for a school. 8-)

Whether people believe the world is 5 thousand years old or 5 billion I could care less, Yadda's religious beliefs do not trouble me.

Islam is a political party which says that its political beliefs come from God. It is also a political party which has supremacist aims, and which says that its God justifies it taking control of the state wherever muslims live so that only the true believers, muslims, can rule over everyone else.

That makes Islam very very dangerous, whereas Yadda's beliefs are just that..beliefs.

What is worse is that Islam has a very good track record of dominating and destroying indigenous cultures and imposing its laws and its rules right throughout the world. It's culture of jihadi vioplence and intolerance dominates the news throughout the world, and yet, it is somehow still open to debate. It's true aims are concealed from westerners but are openly stated in mosques.

Calanen wrote on May 20^th, 2009 at 2:35pm:

What is worse is that Islam has a very good track record of dominating and destroying indigenous cultures and imposing its laws and its rules right throughout the world. It's culture of jihadi vioplence and intolerance dominates the news throughout the world, and yet, it is somehow still open to debate. It's true aims are concealed from westerners but are openly stated in mosques.

Almost funny that all the "leaks"
(uncovered meat, not properly dressed woman deserves to be raped, wife can be hit, ...)
are happily accepted by Australian authorities as:

Misunderstanding,
Misinterpretation,
Being taken out of context

Quote:

Almost funny that all the "leaks" (uncovered meat, not properly dressed woman deserves to be raped, wife can be hit, ...) are happily accepted by Australian authorities as:

Yes the leaks are amusing. Other Muslims get angry, not because of what is said, but because the evil kuffar have been let in on the joke!

Undercover Mosque, the Channel 4 documentary, two programs now, shows in detail exactly what is taught at mosques. The Multiculti Fascist Police in the UK, promptly investigated Channel 4 with race hatred, but discontinued after promising to pay some large sum of money - when Channel 4 called their bluff and said the investigation had no merit at all. If it were the BBC and not Channel 4, the BBC probably would have pleaded guilty to race hatred with no basis just to keep their PC Crown nice and shiny. The Police and the govt were more interested in shutting Channel 4 up, than they were in investigating the very real threats to the UKs sovereignty.

Calanen wrote on May 20^th, 2009 at 4:51pm:

Yes the leaks are amusing. Other Muslims get angry, not because of what is said, but because the evil kuffar have been let in on the joke!

Looks that insiders informing outside folk on what is really happening in the house of harmony, happiness and love would eventually force some action.

Leaving The Most Important Part Out

In the United States when Americans want a caffe latte they ask for a "latte." The coffee goes unmentioned.

In Italy the game of basketball, which has been established with greater success than elsewhere in Europe, is called "basket." The ball goes unmentioned.

Perhaps others can think of examples of the same phenomenon, that is, examples of a foreign phrase appropriated by speakers of another language, who take only part of the original, and leave out the most important element.

And this phenomenon is observable in other ways as well. For example,  Western expositors of Islam, and the associated  soothsayers who make their confident predictions about the world of Islam (soothsaying not in the sense of "saying sooth" but in the sense of "saying what is soothing")  have quite an ability, these venal espositos and stupid armstrongs, of always leaving out the most important part.

http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_display.cfm/blog_id/21014

Soren wrote on May 21^st, 2009 at 9:52pm:

Leaving The Most Important Part Out In the United States when Americans want a caffe latte they ask for a "latte." The coffee goes unmentioned. In Italy the game of basketball, which has been established with greater success than elsewhere in Europe, is called "basket." The ball goes unmentioned. Perhaps others can think of examples of the same phenomenon, that is, examples of a foreign phrase appropriated by speakers of another language, who take only part of the original, and leave out the most important element. And this phenomenon is observable in other ways as well. For example,  Western expositors of Islam, and the associated  soothsayers who make their confident predictions about the world of Islam (soothsaying not in the sense of "saying sooth" but in the sense of "saying what is soothing")  have quite an ability, these venal espositos and stupid armstrongs, of always leaving out the most important part. http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_display.cfm/blog_id/21014

::) yea right ::)

wrote on May 20^th, 2009 at 1:38pm:

NO, so what? ...I care not for your fantasies about soft tissue, this is a great example of why you and the likes of you are so dangerous to society, in order to live your little fairy tale you deny what is not only proven fact but  physical proof. Soft tissue does not matter, there is plenty of physical evidence to prove the earth is much more then 5 thousand years old.

skip,

There you go again, with those [lack of] comprehension skills.

You just don't 'get it', do you.

The discovery, the existence!, of T-REX soft tissue, is conclusive evidence that dinosaurs may have lived in our [mankind's] recent past.




But evolutionists such as yourself, are not open to being swayed with truth, facts, and evidence.

Evolutionists such as yourself, are people with closed minds.

When evolutionists are confronted with evidence which challenges the validity of the theory of evolution [i.e. for example, conclusive evidence that dinosaurs may have lived in our recent past], the evolutionists refuse to confront, or seriously examine such evidence.

Evolutionists refuse to consider evidence, which doesn't fit the theory of evolution, which they are committed to.

Evolutionists are committed to the theory of evolution, with a 'religious' conviction.


The words of skippy....


Quote:

....Now to some real debate Yadda.....You see the problem with religion......is that every body thinks their religion is the one true religion and the rest are wrong......

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1242606209/17#17






Science, is a house of lies and half truths.

Google,
scientific fraud
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=scientific+fraud+&btnG=Google+Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=

Oh yadda yabba you, I Can understand that some body with a belief system like you would be blind to facts it doesn't surprise me in the least.
What I'd suggest to you is look at the facts of life as we know it, you believe in a god based on the concept of a woman having an immaculate conception, let alone the rise from the dead conpironut stuff, you are a very naive person yadda, you also can't learn to think for yourself so you go on believing a fantasy that people made up 1500 to 2000 years ago.
I understand it undermines everything you believe in to see your belief in this fictional creature not only questioned but proven to be no more real than the fairies at the bottom of the garden.
You should get over it, there's a real world out there to live, go and live it, you only get one life.
Tell me yadda, have you always been a god bother er or are you a born again?

wrote on May 22^nd, 2009 at 12:43pm:

Oh yadda yabba you, I Can understand that some body with a belief system like you would be blind to facts it doesn't surprise me in the least. What I'd suggest to you is look at the facts of life as we know it,

skip,

Weak skip, very weak.

What facts???????????

You mean that fraudulent fossil dating science / 'fact' ?

Where in a 'scientific' process of analysing, 'buzzing' some minerals, and the minerals come out the other end of the 'analysis' process, with a date stamp, " This rock/fossil, was formed 75 million years BC!" ?

LOL

Talk about, believing in 'fairies at the bottom of the garden' !!!!!!

Are all you evolutionist so, so, 'inert' ????

LOL!







Quote:

.....Tell me yadda, have you always been a god bother er or are you a born again?

Throughout my life, i've always aimed to be a rational person skip.             ;)             :D

Unlike the evolutionist crowd you mix with, who dismiss, and discard evidence, which does not agree with their pet theory,
.....i.e. the theory which states, 'God does not exist, we all evolved, from absolutely nothing! Honest!!!'



1 Thessalonians 5:21
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.




Skip,

Where did that T-Rex soft tissue, come from?

Did it fall off an asteroid passing earth???

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!


skip,

Pull the other one.

It plays, 'Jingle bells'.

Go and play with your fairies,
.....and stop pretending that you have any ability to debate, anything.       ;D      ;D       ;D

Isotope’s half-life concept and carbon dating is generally accepted method for good representation of approximate age determination.

But looks that there are exceptions.

So you are a born again hey? they're always the biggest retards.
You are a very dangerous person to our society, the fact you believe women have babies without having sex first says it all.

Where is this evidence you write of about god existing?
As for playing with the fairies, I leave that to your lot, most of the priests I've seen about like a good fairy or kiddy, must be a god botherer thing.

Happy wrote on May 22^nd, 2009 at 2:18pm:

Isotope’s half-life concept and carbon dating is generally accepted method for good representation of approximate age determination. But looks that there are exceptions.

The only exceptions are the retards who think the world is five thousand years old, ;D ;D ;D .

Happy wrote on May 22^nd, 2009 at 2:18pm:

Isotope’s half-life concept and carbon dating is generally accepted method for good representation of approximate age determination. But looks that there are exceptions.

happy,

The so-called 'science' of evolution is built on a foundation of sand.....

For many decades our schools have *taught* that petrification [mineralisation of organic material] takes millions of years.


But it has been proven, that petrification of organic material can take place, in less than 20 years.
http://hissheep.org/evolution/proof_of_rapid_petrification.html
http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/5179/

Google,
rapid petrification
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=rapid+petrification&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

Think of the consequences of this *fact*, on our understanding of the age of [dinosaur] fossils.





ALSO,

Dating of geologic layers is a fraud....

FOR EXAMPLE.....

In June of 1992, Dr Austin collected a 7-kg (15-lb) block of dacite from high on the lava dome......
The laboratory was not told that the specimen came from the lava dome at Mount St Helens and was only 10 years old.
.....the [dating] results ranged from 340,000 to 2.8 million years! Why?
.....the results from the different samples of the *same rock* disagree with each other.
It is clear that radioisotope dating is not....proof for millions of years of Earth history.
When the method is tested on rocks of known age, it fails miserably.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v23/i3/radiodating.asp

Google,
fossil dating a fraud
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=fossil+dating+a+fraud&btnG=Google+Search&meta=


Why would [and do!, some] scientists suppress, or ignore, evidence which could be viewed as contradictory to 'mainstream' hypothesises [e.g. evolution]?

Err, with grants of $$$$$$, at stake?

Oh, yes.

I wonder why!         ;D        ;D        ;D

Duh!




skip,

And you dare to suggest that i, am the 'retard'!         ;D        ;D        ;D

LOL.


Ignorant, ignorant skippy.

Go and find some sand, to put your head into.

"Ignorance is the state in which a person lacks knowledge and is unaware of something. "

I am well aware some people believe in god and having spent 15 years involved in a church when I was younger, I too could quote all your little dittys from the bible.

The difference is that I expanded my mind and explored other possibilities whilst you are still peddling fairy tales you learnt in sunday school.

It seems to me that you are the one who lacks knowledge about alternatives because your mind is closed from all that brain washing.

wrote on May 22^nd, 2009 at 2:24pm:

Happy wrote on May 22nd, 2009 at 2:18pm: Isotope’s half-life concept and carbon dating is generally accepted method for good representation of approximate age determination. But looks that there are exceptions. The only exceptions are the retards who think the world is five thousand years old, ;D ;D ;D .

Come to think about it they can be even right, all depends on how many our years equal one 'retard' year.

After all Chinese New Year's celebrations do not coincide with ours and they managed for so many thousand years  :)

Back to the topic.


There is compulsion in religion

The continued emphasis by Muslim and non-Muslim apologists for Islam on a single verse -- "There is no compulsion in religion" -- is permitted not only because their Infidel audience has no idea either about what is said relevantly elsewhere, in hundreds of places, in the Qur'an and Hadith, and not only because they are unaware of the doctrine of abrogation or "naskh," but because they are also unaware of the precise meaning that is given to that phrase "there is no compulsion in religion" by Muslim jurisconsults. If they did look into it, they would find that the "obvious" meaning of the words -- that is, the meaning that we Infidels choose to endow that phrase with -- is not what Muslim scholars mean at all. They mean that in the end one cannot force deep belief on people, though one can force them to comply outwardly, even on pain of death. And that is what Islam is in the business of doing: forcing outward compliance, on pain of punishment that may well include, has often included, death.

But there is one more thing that should surely be offered as an objection when some fool comes along and utters credulously this "there is no compulsion in religion" and expects us to believe the Western understanding of it. That is the observable behavior of Muslims over 1350 years. What have Muslims done, when they have conquered, by force or otherwise, non-Muslim lands and peoples? They offer three possibilities: death, conversion, and, at least to those who can be classified as ahl al-kitab or "people of the book," permanent status as dhimmis, with a host of political, economic, and social disabilities which together added up to lives of humiliation, degradation, and physical insecurity, at times relieved -- but only at times -- by the occasional mollitude of a particular Muslim ruler. A slim reed on which to base one's happiness. And so, over time, many non-Muslims, in order to avoid this condition of degradation, humiliation, and physical insecurity, converted to Islam.

Why else did Hindus accept Islam? And the Muslims of Pakistan, Bangladesh, and India, of today, if they were quite honest with themselves, would recognize that they are the descendants of those who were essentially forced, or deemed it absolutely necessary, to convert -- and if they were to recognize this, they might convert back. Why did the ancestors of those we now call "Bosnians" (i.e., Muslims of the Balkans) convert to Islam under Ottoman rule, if not to escape the condition of the dhimmi (and such things as the devshirme, or forced levy of Christian children)? Why did North Africa, once Christian (both Tertullian and St. Augustine came from there) become islamized and then arabized? Why did the Christians and Jews of Iraq largely disappear, leaving only the remnant left today, which is also now leaving Iraq as they are newly threatened without the "secular" despot Saddam Hussein to protect them? (His "secularism" was a response to the need to disguise his Sunni despotism, and make it "open to all," including the inoffensive and innocuous Christians.)

Were they all driven out, or did many of them, over time, convert in order to avoid their condition as dhimmis? What happened to the Christians of Byzantium? Did they all leave, or did many of them become the ancestors of those who today are utterly convinced that they have been "Muslim" and "Turk" since time immemorial?

We all know the answer to these questions. And how many of us, if we had to endure the dhimmi status, and had each year, for example, to pay a jizyah tax of, say, $20,000, would remain non-Muslims? How many can say that their children or grandchildren would also remain willing to pay the tax rather than to become Muslims?

Of course there is "compulsion in religion" in the lands of Islam. The burdens placed on non-Muslims are simply too onerous to be ignored, and many, over the past 1350 years, when living under Muslim rule, have succumbed in order to avoid the dhimmi condition.

And that succumbing, that yielding, demonstrates perfectly the "compulsion in religion" that Islam demands, whatever naive and unschooled interpretation of 2.256 any Infidel idiot chooses to give it. Muslims know better.

If that was a cut and paste you should let us know who wrote it, if you wrote it you should give up.
:-[

Funny how a perfectly good topic on multiculti and immigration can be sidetracked to be about Religion and Spirituality, belief and disbelief.

Nice if we all got back on track eh.

[quote author=athiest link=1242606209/45#55 date=1242983054]If that was a cut and paste you should let us know who wrote it, if you wrote it you should give up.
:-[/quote]


Mr Whoosh! (another one over your head0,

You advertise yourself as a free-thinking, independed-minded man but you are really an officious little group-thinker, a tight-lipped checker of authority and ID when you come across a new idea. You sniff the air not for understanding but for authority. You are actually guarding aganst any new ideas.



Tip: paste the first sentence into google and you will see where it is from. Magic! And guess what? It works with other texts, too!!
And make a note of today - you have learned something new, after a long dry spell: now you know how to use google.

Soren wrote on May 22^nd, 2009 at 10:03pm:

[quote author=athiest link=1242606209/45#55 date=1242983054]If that was a cut and paste you should let us know who wrote it, if you wrote it you should give up. :-[/quote] Mr Whoosh! (another one over your head0, You advertise yourself as a free-thinking, independed-minded man but you are really an officious little group-thinker, a tight-lipped checker of authority and ID when you come across a new idea. You sniff the air not for understanding but for authority. You are actually guarding aganst any new ideas. Tip: paste the first sentence into google and you will see where it is from. Magic! And guess what? It works with other texts, too!! And make a note of today - you have learned something new, after a long dry spell: now you know how to use google.

So I was right, no surprises there. :D

Yes:
The continued emphasis by Muslim and non-Muslim apologists for Islam on a single verse
Gave this:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/2008/09/022825print.html

Great stuff

And here :
http://www.jihadwatch.org/
one can find the reason for site:

Why Jihad Watch?
Because non-Muslims in the West, as well as in India, China, Russia, and the world over, are facing a concerted effort by Islamic jihadists, the motives and goals of whom are largely ignored by the Western media, to destroy their societies and bring them forcibly into the Islamic world -- and to commit violence to that end even while their overall goal remains out of reach. That effort goes under the general rubric of jihad.

Jihad (Arabic for "struggle") is a central duty of every Muslim. Modern Muslim theologians have spoken of many things as jihads: the struggle within the soul, defending the faith from critics, supporting its growth and defense financially, even migrating to non-Muslim lands for the purpose of spreading Islam. But violent jihad is a constant of Islamic history. Many passages of the Qur'an and sayings of the Prophet Muhammad are used by jihad warriors today to justify their actions and gain new recruits. No major Muslim group has ever repudiated the doctrines of armed jihad. The theology of jihad, which denies unbelievers equality of human rights and dignity, is available today for anyone with the will and means to bring it to life.

Jihad Watch is dedicated to bringing public attention to the role that jihad theology and ideology plays in the modern world, and to correcting popular misconceptions about the role of jihad and religion in modern-day conflicts. We hope to alert people of good will to the true nature of the present global conflict.

I have a license from Greg Davis to paste his Islam 101 FAQs on all forum boards throughout the web. Should make more use of that, his Islam 101 is very good.

MULTICULTURALISM  IN ACTION - BRITISH MUSLIMS GOING TO FIGHT IN SOMALIA

The Times Online

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article6345930.ece

Up to a thousand foreign fighters, including Britons, have answered the call to jihad in Somalia and are leading street-fighting Islamist extremists in the war-torn capital Mogadishu, The Times has learnt.

Early yesterday the Western-backed Government launched a counter-offensive after almost a fortnight of attacks by insurgents that have killed at least 200 civilians.

Senior security officials in the region say that the foreign fighters are behind the recent success of the extremists. More than 290 fighters from Britain, the US, Canada, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia entered Mogadishu in the past two weeks.

An intelligence report seen by The Times, which is due to be presented to the US Congress next week, states: “An estimated ten foreigners have taken the lead to command both Somali and foreign fighters in Mogadishu and other parts of Somalia.”

“I have no doubt that some of the foreign fighters are British as well as North American and Scandinavian,” said Ahmedou Ould-Abdallah, the top Somali diplomat for the United Nations. One Western diplomat with experience in Somalia said: “These foreigners are the ones with al-Qaeda links. I would be surprised if Britons were not the leading foreign members of al-Shabaab.”

In March the propaganda unit for the al-Shabaab militia released a video entitled Ambush at Bardale, in which a white American, thought to have a special forces military background, was filmed leading dozens of Somali fighters. “Mortar by mortar, shell by shell; only gonna stop when I send them to hell,” he rapped over the footage in a clear attempt to glamorise the insurgency and appeal to young disenfranchised Westerners.

A year earlier, al-Shabaab released another propaganda video, this time of a British suicide bomber who addressed the camera in English.

“Al-Shabaab welcomes and calls foreign fighters for jihad,” said Jason Mosley, an Africa analyst at Oxford Analytica. In most cases foreign fighters bring religious fervour helping to radicalise the bulk of disparate al-Shabaab militants, who fight mostly for money or under duress.

A smaller number have military skills, financing and weaponry. “We understand that these fighters are providing training to the extremist insurgents and are helping to mobilise funding and source weapons, the level of which we have never seen before,” Nicolas Bwakira, the head of the African Union (AU) Somalia mission, said.

Intelligence sources said that foreign jihadis from Britain and elsewhere had joined an alliance of al-Shabaab factions and Hizb al-Islam extremists that have coalesced around Sheikh Hassan Dahir Aweys. The Sheikh, who is wanted as a terrorist by the US, returned from exile in April to take on the fragile Administration of Mr Ahmed.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article6345940.ece

A growing number of young Somali Britons who have received “global jihad” training in Somalia pose a terrorist risk to the United Kingdom.

With al-Qaeda (AQ) in effect ousted from Iraq and constantly attcked by American Predator air attacks in Pakistan, the AQ franchise in East Africa, and notably Somalia, has become a greater focus of attention for the international counter-terrorist agencies.

“Somalia has some of the characteristics of Afghanistan in 2000 and 2001 — a country of ungoverned space which AQ can exploit,” a senior Whitehall official said.

For Britain, the evidence of spreading AQ training camps in Somalia is particularly alarming because of the large Somali community in the UK. About 70,000 live in London, 10,000 in the borough of Tower Hamlets.

Jonathan Evans, the Director-General of MI5, has emphasised that three-quarters of the agency’s international counter-terrorism resources still have to be devoted to Pakistan because of the 400,000 Pakistani-Britons who travel back and forth to Pakistan every year. Most of the terrorist plots uncovered since 9/11 were connected in some way to Pakistan.

Somalia has moved up the agenda and is viewed increasingly as a terrorist haven and growing resource for AQ’s global ambitions.

Although it is believed that the motivation for young Somali Britons may principally be to receive instruction so that they can fight in Afghanistan or join jihad in Somalia, Whitehall officials accept that some might decide to use the expertise they have acquired in the camps to return to Britain and start planning attacks.

Two of the four men who were convicted over the plot to detonate bombs on Tube trains and a bus in London on July 21, 2005 were from Somalia. Ramzi Mohammad had come to the UK from Somalia with his family in 1998, and Yassin Omar had been in the UK since the early 1990s. They and two Ethiopian-born Britons, Muktar Said Ibrahim and Hussein Osman, were found guilty of conspiracy to murder.

MI5 categorises its counter-terrorism coverage by networks rather than individuals. So there is no unit specifically focusing on Somali suspects unless they are involved in a targeted network. The domestic security service has learnt since 2005 that networks are often of mixed ethnic make-up. The East African connection is assessed as a growing threat.

“There is no doubt that there is training activity and terrorist planning in East Africa, particularly in Somalia, which is focused on the UK,” Mr Evans said in a speech two years ago.

Since then there has been evidence that the threat has grown. Whitehall officials said that the number of Somali Britons going to Somalia for training was “not huge” but was increasing. As a consequence, and because the focus on AQ in Iraq has been downgraded, extra resources are being channelled into combating the East Africa/Somalia terrorist connection because of the perceived risk of trained British nationals returning from camps to become attack planners in the UK.

Grendel wrote on May 24^th, 2009 at 12:02pm:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article6345940.ece A growing number of young Somali Britons who have received “global jihad” training in Somalia pose a terrorist risk to the United Kingdom. ... Whitehall officials said that the number of Somali Britons going to Somalia for training was “not huge” but was increasing. As a consequence, and because the focus on AQ in Iraq has been downgraded, extra resources are being channelled into combating the East Africa/Somalia terrorist connection because of the perceived risk of trained British nationals returning from camps to become attack planners in the UK.

Our law is not well prepared to prevent, sometimes something has to happen for authorities to take action.