Israeli president Benjamin Netanyahu has delivered a speech backing a Palestinian state, but refused to accept demands of a cease to all settlement activity.

Obama welcomes Netanyahu's two-state solution endorsement

http://www.france24.com/en/20090614-obama-welcomes-netanyahu-endorsment-two-state-solution-palestinian-state

AFP - Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's speech endorsing the creation of a Palestinian state was "an important step forward," the White House said Sunday.
 
President Barack Obama "welcomes the important step forward in Prime Minister Netanyahu's speech," spokesman Robert Gibbs said in a statement.
 
In the speech, Netanyahu endorsed for the first time the creation of a Palestinian state, provided it was demilitarized, after weeks of pressure from Washington.
 
The speech, which was billed as a response to Obama's address to the Muslim world ten days ago, ruled out a complete halt to settlement activity in the occupied West Bank, which Obama also has insisted on.
 
The White House statement reiterated Obama's commitment to a two-state solution, with a Jewish state of Israel and an independent Palestine "in the historic homeland of both peoples."
 
Obama "believes this solution can and must ensure both Israel's security and the fulfillment of the Palestinians' legitimate aspirations for a viable state, and he welcomes Prime Minister Netanyahu's endorsement of that goal," it said.
 
"The president will continue working with all parties -- Israel, the Palestinian Authority, Arab states, and our Quartet partners -- to see that they fulfill their obligations and responsibilities necessary to achieve a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and a comprehensive regional peace," it said.

An important point missing from the above is that Netanyahu demanded that Israel be recognised as a Jewish state, not just that Palestinians recognise Israel, implying that Palestinians accept Israel's right to disenfranchise non-Jews should they collectively become demographically superior.

His demands will never be met and he knows it.  
Would he do to the state of Israel what he demands of a Palestinian state?
There is no real progress here.

I can see why you may not be overly impresed, but it is at least a symbolic step in the right direction.

When their are such degrees of resistance from both sides, we can only expect change to come with, treacle slow peaceful diplomacy, or explosively fast violent revolution.

They may be trying to step back from the violence with this symbolic move.

Grendel wrote on Jun 16^th, 2009 at 8:20am:

His demands will never be met and he knows it.   Would he do to the state of Israel what he demands of a Palestinian state? There is no real progress here.

I agree. Netanyahu has laid too many exclusions for the Palestinians as promised to those who elected him.

It will be interesting to see who gives in - I bet it won't be Netanyahu though.

mozzaok wrote on Jun 16^th, 2009 at 9:05am:

I can see why you may not be overly impresed, but it is at least a symbolic step in the right direction. When their are such degrees of resistance from both sides, we can only expect change to come with, treacle slow peaceful diplomacy, or explosively fast violent revolution. They may be trying to step back from the violence with this symbolic move.

It's not surprising at all that an Israeli leader imposes conditions for the two state solution such as Netanyahu did... No Jew is ever going to put at risk Israel's moral and primary reason for its existence.

Quote:

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/828140/gillard-defends-israel-trip GILLARD DEFENDS ISRAEL TRIP 11:38 AEST Sun Jun 21 2009 Deputy Prime Minister Julia Gillard says she is not surprised that her upcoming visit to Israel has sparked opposition at home. Labor colleagues had expressed concerns about the dialogue with Israeli leaders. MP Julia Irwin, an executive member of the Australian Parliamentary Friends of Palestine group, said the trip to Israel was unnecessary.And several other MPs voiced concern during a recent caucus meeting. Ms Gillard said it was hardly surprising that there was a range of views on the issue. "There's obviously a debate, a very real debate about matters in the Middle East, and so I suppose a politician's visit ... is going to be remarked upon," Ms Gillard told ABC television. Labor were "strong friends and supporters" of Israel, she said. The party strongly supported "a two-state solution, with secure borders to recognise the needs and aspirations of the Palestinian people". "That will be my message in Israel," she said. Ms Gillard is leading the delegation to the inaugural Australia Israel Leadership Forum, which includes former treasurer Peter Costello, Liberal frontbenchers Chris Pyne and George Brandis, and Labor backbenchers Mike Kelly and Mark Dreyfus.

Not everybody likes to see Julia to go there, but 2 state solution seems fair.

Quote:

I can see why you may not be overly impresed, but it is at least a symbolic step in the right direction.

Are you all there mozza?

Israeli leaders recognised the need for a two-state solution long ago. Netanyahu's views are not a step in that direction, they're about 50 leaps in the opposite direction, and one small fairy step back to appease the gullible fools.

Quote:

Israeli leaders recognised the need for a two-state solution long ago.

For example?

From the earliest days of Zionism, most Jewish leaders accepted a two-state solution, for the simple fact, they were gaining everything, and losing nothing. They had no state, so accepting a two-state solution was nothing but a victory. So they accepted the Peel Plan, and the 1947 UN plan and all other plans proposed. After expelling the Palestinians from their land, they then sunk into a historical revisionism, in which they denied Palestinians even existed, and promoted various forms of propaganda to promote those ideas.

However, pretty much all of them over the past 10-15 years, since Rabin have returned to the idea, as they know they can't continue how they are now.

At Oslo (1993), Camp David (2000), Teba (2001), Aqaba (2003). Annapolis (2007).

So from Rabin to Olmert, all of them endorsed the two state solution, except Netanyahu.

Yes, it always were Arabs not Zionists who wanted all or nothing.

BTW the lie about expulsion of Palestinians from Israel is just that a lie because if it was true then there would not be over 20% of the Arabs in Israel. Another interesting fact is that 2007 survey data shows that a majority (62%) of Arab citizens of Israel would prefer to remain Israeli citizens rather than become citizens of a future Palestinian state. That must be because joos are evil towards poor peace loving Arabs  ;)

Only 10% of Israel's population are Arabs and they are the most underpaid workers in the state. What do you mean all or nothing - Tallow? Their parents and grandparents lost their homes and there have been 2 million Arabs flee Israel. Those remaining don't have the same advantages as the Israelis, although their conditions are improving a bit.

All the average Palestinian wants is a place where they are free to work, cultivate a little land for sustenance and educate their kids in peace.

And as far as Abu's comment on all previous Israeli leaders accepting a two-state solution - I find that hard to believe - it's just that Netanyahu is less diplomatic than previous leaders. If Israel wanted a two-state solution - it would have happened by now.

Where do you get your facts from.


Quote:

As of 2008, Arab citizens of Israel comprise just over 20% of the country's total population. The majority of these identify themselves as Palestinian by nationality and Israeli by citizenship

I'll have a hunt for that article, but the figure of 20% is apparently obfuscated and the numbers seem to vary wherever you look. The figure of 20% Arabs also included 9% Africans & others, who are needed for their legal, domestic slavery industry.

Ah no  20% is all Arabs including non-muslim arabs and its is probably closer to 23%.

I got that from various sources.  All roughly the same percentage

Can you link to some of them Grendel? If you go to the trouble of finding this information you might as well post it.

Google israel demographics and work from there

You are missing the point Grendel. Either you made up that number, or you googled it and spent a bit of time looking. If you want people to take you seriously, you need to make it easy for them to think you actually looked, and looked in the right place. No-one is going to go out of their way to confirm that you know what you are talking about. They will just dismiss your contribution as valueless. You might as well have made it up. If you want to leave it at that, it's fine with me. I'm not going to explain to you the value of including the link or source every time you make up a number. I will just asume you made it up, as will most people.

a minute tops...  googled it...  not hard to do
Try it you might develop a new tool to help you research information.
Not missing any points BTW

Ah just out of curiosity...  do you try to be an ar%ehole on purpose?
Do you like flaming me and casting doubts continuously on my veracity and credibility?
Do I have any respect for you due to it?

Oh BTW the last answer is NO!

It is pretty basic ettiquette of online forums to include the link or source Grendel. It is not a flame to point out that people won't take you seriously if you don't get that. That you keep suggesting someone else does it for you merely reinforces it.

ROTFLMAO

Google it don't be lazy

I don't have to reference every quote I post you know.

Oh and if people were really interested they check it out themselves from several sources and come back and say I was right.  Instead of the crap you continuously dump on me.

freediver wrote on Jul 5^th, 2009 at 5:56pm:

It is pretty basic ettiquette of online forums to include the link or source Grendel. It is not a flame to point out that people won't take you seriously if you don't get that. That you keep suggesting someone else does it for you merely reinforces it.

How many links did you count in this thread?

I've count 1. Does it mean that this forum doesn't follow "basic ettiquette of online forums"? So it seems.
Why then bother Grendel only?

Grendel wrote on Jul 5^th, 2009 at 7:10pm:

ROTFLMAO Oh and if people were really interested they check it out themselves from several sources and come back and say I was right.

Or wrong!

mantra wrote on Jul 5^th, 2009 at 8:19am:

Only 10% of Israel's population are Arabs and they are the most underpaid workers in the state. What do you mean all or nothing - Tallow? Their parents and grandparents lost their homes and there have been 2 million Arabs flee Israel. Those remaining don't have the same advantages as the Israelis, although their conditions are improving a bit. All the average Palestinian wants is a place where they are free to work, cultivate a little land for sustenance and educate their kids in peace. And as far as Abu's comment on all previous Israeli leaders accepting a two-state solution - I find that hard to believe - it's just that Netanyahu is less diplomatic than previous leaders. If Israel wanted a two-state solution - it would have happened by now.

It is more then 20% as Grendel says.
Arabs had chance to have own state and Jews own. Jews agreed while Arabs wanted whole lot. Arabs started war against Israel and got their sorry bums kicked right and proper. The got nothing because they wanted all. I hope it makes it clear to you what I meant when I wrote that Arabs wanted all or nothing.

Forget a Palestinian State, Let Jordan Rule

The late Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, who passed away last week at the age of 100, gave a recent interview in which he suggested that Hamas’s terror attack October 7 had killed the two-state solution, and Jordan should rule the West Bank.

The October 18 interview, published by Politico on Saturday, is thought possibly to be Kissinger’s last. It includes the following:

I am in favor of a peaceful outcome. I don’t see a peaceful outcome with Hamas involved in the conflict. I would favor negotiations between the Arab world and Israel. I do not see, especially after these events, that direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians are very fruitful.

…

A formal peace doesn’t guarantee a lasting peace. The difficulty of the two-state solution is shown by the experience of Hamas. Gaza was made quasi-independent by [former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel] Sharon in order to test the possibility of a two-state solution. It has led, in fact, to a much more complex situation. It has become so much worse in the last two years than it has been in 2005. So the two-state solution doesn’t guarantee that what we saw in the last weeks won’t happen again.

…

I believe the West Bank should be put under Jordanian control rather than aim for a two-state solution which leaves one of the two territories determined to overthrow Israel. Egypt has moved closer to the Arab side, so Israel will have a very difficult time going forward. I hope that at the end of it there will be a negotiation, as I had the privilege to conduct at the end of the Yom Kippur War. At that time, Israel was stronger relative to the surrounding powers. Nowadays, it requires a greater involvement of America to prevent a continuation of the conflict.

https://www.breitbart.com/middle-east/2023/12/03/kissingers-final-interview-forget-a-palestinian-state-let-jordan-rule/

Every offer Israel has made to the Palestinians for their own State has been scuppered by Palestinian leaders. Israel has nothing to gain by an unstable and violent neighbour intent on its destruction. Going all the way back to the Six Day War of 1967, the Israeli Cabinet voted - unanimously - to return the "occupied territories" to their former owners, and negotiate peace treaties with said former owners. The Arab response was the infamous "Khartoum Declaration" - "No recognition of Israel, no negotiations with Israel, no peace with Israel."

Israel's critics offer nothing that progresses the Two State Solution.

Frank wrote on Dec 5^th, 2023 at 9:19pm:

Forget a Palestinian State, Let Jordan Rule The late Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, who passed away last week at the age of 100, gave a recent interview in which he suggested that Hamas’s terror attack October 7 had killed the two-state solution, and Jordan should rule the West Bank. The October 18 interview, published by Politico on Saturday, is thought possibly to be Kissinger’s last. It includes the following: I am in favor of a peaceful outcome. I don’t see a peaceful outcome with Hamas involved in the conflict. I would favor negotiations between the Arab world and Israel. I do not see, especially after these events, that direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians are very fruitful. … A formal peace doesn’t guarantee a lasting peace. The difficulty of the two-state solution is shown by the experience of Hamas. Gaza was made quasi-independent by [former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel] Sharon in order to test the possibility of a two-state solution. It has led, in fact, to a much more complex situation. It has become so much worse in the last two years than it has been in 2005. So the two-state solution doesn’t guarantee that what we saw in the last weeks won’t happen again. … I believe the West Bank should be put under Jordanian control rather than aim for a two-state solution which leaves one of the two territories determined to overthrow Israel. Egypt has moved closer to the Arab side, so Israel will have a very difficult time going forward. I hope that at the end of it there will be a negotiation, as I had the privilege to conduct at the end of the Yom Kippur War. At that time, Israel was stronger relative to the surrounding powers. Nowadays, it requires a greater involvement of America to prevent a continuation of the conflict. https://www.breitbart.com/middle-east/2023/12/03/kissingers-final-interview-forget-a-palestinian-state-let-jordan-rule/

Quote:

The late Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, who passed away last week at the age of 100, gave a recent interview in which he suggested that Hamas’s terror attack October 7 had killed the two-state solution, and Jordan should rule the West Bank.

Israel ruling the west bank for the last 50 years played a big role in the cause of the October 7th attack.


Quote:

late Secretary of State Henry Kissinger,

Was the Worst US statesman ever. Most would say that whatever he said just do the opposite.

Dnarever wrote on Dec 21^st, 2023 at 3:22pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 5th, 2023 at 9:19pm: Forget a Palestinian State, Let Jordan Rule The late Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, who passed away last week at the age of 100, gave a recent interview in which he suggested that Hamas’s terror attack October 7 had killed the two-state solution, and Jordan should rule the West Bank. The October 18 interview, published by Politico on Saturday, is thought possibly to be Kissinger’s last. It includes the following: I am in favor of a peaceful outcome. I don’t see a peaceful outcome with Hamas involved in the conflict. I would favor negotiations between the Arab world and Israel. I do not see, especially after these events, that direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians are very fruitful. … A formal peace doesn’t guarantee a lasting peace. The difficulty of the two-state solution is shown by the experience of Hamas. Gaza was made quasi-independent by [former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel] Sharon in order to test the possibility of a two-state solution. It has led, in fact, to a much more complex situation. It has become so much worse in the last two years than it has been in 2005. So the two-state solution doesn’t guarantee that what we saw in the last weeks won’t happen again. … I believe the West Bank should be put under Jordanian control rather than aim for a two-state solution which leaves one of the two territories determined to overthrow Israel. Egypt has moved closer to the Arab side, so Israel will have a very difficult time going forward. I hope that at the end of it there will be a negotiation, as I had the privilege to conduct at the end of the Yom Kippur War. At that time, Israel was stronger relative to the surrounding powers. Nowadays, it requires a greater involvement of America to prevent a continuation of the conflict. https://www.breitbart.com/middle-east/2023/12/03/kissingers-final-interview-forget-a-palestinian-state-let-jordan-rule/ Quote: The late Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, who passed away last week at the age of 100, gave a recent interview in which he suggested that Hamas’s terror attack October 7 had killed the two-state solution, and Jordan should rule the West Bank. Jordan ruling the west bank for the last 50 years played a big role in the cause of the October 7th attack.

;D :D :D :D

You are an ignorant idiot, duck.

Jordan occupied and ruled the West Bank UNTIL 1967 and NOT for the last 56 years.

turning gaza into a seaside resort and national park is step 1
the west bank will probably follow surrounding israel with a wildlife buffer.

egypt can relinquish the sinai desert for the palestinians
the egyptians arent using it.

this is what a win/win looks like

aquascoot wrote on Dec 21^st, 2023 at 3:49pm:

egypt can relinquish the sinai desert for the palestinians the egyptians arent using it.

Except that Egyptians would rather eat their own sh!t than help the Palestinians.

Boom, crash... what was that?  the argument collapsing..

"Jews make up the majority at 73.5% (about 7.145 million individuals). The Arab community, spanning various religions excluding Judaism, accounts for 21% (around 2.048 million). An additional 5.5% (roughly 534,000 individuals) are classified as "others"."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel

"Arabs comprise just over 20 percent of Israel’s population. The vast majority are citizens, while those in Jerusalem, which Israel claims as its capital, are considered “permanent residents.”
    Arab citizens have the same legal rights as Jewish Israelis, but they tend to live in poorer cities, have less formal education, and face other challenges that some experts attribute to structural discrimination.
    Arab political parties have long struggled to gain representation in Israel’s government, and many Arabs have expressed alarm at the leadership of right-wing Jewish politicians, including Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu."

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-know-about-arab-citizens-israel

Dunno how I'd fit in - 10% Jewish... probably an 'other' given my mixed ethnicity and religious heritage.

Hamas must be destroyed, Gaza must be demilitarised, and Palestinian society must be deradicalised.
These are the three prerequisites for peace between Israel and its Palestinian neighbours in Gaza.

First, Hamas, a key Iranian proxy, must be destroyed. The U.S., U.K., France, Germany and many other countries support Israel’s intention to demolish the terror group. To achieve that goal, its military capabilities must be dismantled and its political rule over Gaza must end. Hamas’s leaders have vowed to repeat the Oct. 7 massacre “again and again.” That is why their destruction is the only proportional response to prevent the repeat of such horrific atrocities. Anything less guarantees more war and more bloodshed.

In destroying Hamas, Israel will continue to act in full compliance with international law. This is especially challenging because an integral part of Hamas’s strategy is to use Palestinian civilians as human shields. Hamas places its terrorist infrastructure inside and underneath homes, hospitals, mosques, schools and other civilian sites, deliberately putting the Palestinian population at risk.

Israel does its best to minimise civilian casualties by dropping leaflets, sending text messages and using other means to warn Gazans to get out of harm’s way. Hamas by contrast does its utmost to keep Palestinians in harm’s way — often at gunpoint.

Unjustly blaming Israel for these casualties will only encourage Hamas and other terror organisations around the world to use human shields. To render this cruel and cynical strategy ineffective, the international community must place the blame for these casualties squarely on Hamas. It must recognise that Israel is fighting the bigger battle of the civilised war against barbarism.

Second, Gaza must be demilitarised. Israel must ensure that the territory is never again used as a base to attack it. Among other things, this will require establishing a temporary security zone on the perimeter of Gaza and an inspection mechanism on the border between Gaza and Egypt that meets Israel’s security needs and prevents smuggling of weapons into the territory.

The expectation that the Palestinian Authority will demilitarise Gaza is a pipe dream. It currently funds and glorifies terrorism in Judea and Samaria and educates Palestinian children to seek the destruction of Israel. Not surprisingly it has shown neither the capability nor the will to demilitarise Gaza. It failed to do so before Hamas booted it out of the territory in 2007, and it has failed to do so in the territories under its control today. For the foreseeable future Israel will have to retain overriding security responsibility over Gaza.

Third, Gaza will have to be deradicalised. Schools must teach children to cherish life rather than death, and imams must cease to preach for the murder of Jews. Palestinian civil society needs to be transformed so that its people support fighting terrorism rather than funding it.

That will likely require courageous and moral leadership. Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas can’t even bring himself to condemn the Oct. 7 atrocities. Several of his ministers deny that the murders and rapes happened or accuse Israel of perpetrating these horrific crimes against its own people. Another threatened that a similar attack would be carried out in Judea and Samaria.

Successful deradicalisation took place in Germany and Japan after the Allied victory in World War II. Today, both nations are great allies of the U.S. and promote peace, stability and prosperity in Europe and Asia.

More recently, since the 9/11 attacks, visionary Arab leaders in The Gulf have led efforts to deradicalise their societies and transform their countries. Israel has since forged the historic Abraham Accords and today enjoys peace agreements with six Arab states. Such a cultural transformation will be possible in Gaza only among Palestinians who don’t seek the destruction of Israel.

Once Hamas is destroyed, Gaza is demilitarised and Palestinian society begins a deradicalisation process, Gaza can be rebuilt and the prospects of a broader peace in the Middle East will become a reality.
Mr. Netanyahu is Israel’s prime minister

Frank wrote on Dec 26^th, 2023 at 7:36am:

Hamas must be destroyed, Gaza must be demilitarised, and Palestinian society must be deradicalised. ...

And Israel must stop murdering babies and pregnant women.

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26^th, 2023 at 9:59am:

Frank wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 7:36am: Hamas must be destroyed, Gaza must be demilitarised, and Palestinian society must be deradicalised. ... And Israel must stop murdering babies and pregnant women.

Oh so it's no longer 'Women & Children' eh?
It's now 'Babies and Foetuses'.  ::)

Coming from Peccary, known Sex Deviant of Ozpol (who worships Sex Predators of the Music Industry).
We should really keep an eye on him when he tries to hide behind 'children' and 'infants' now. ;)

Jasin wrote on Dec 26^th, 2023 at 10:29am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 9:59am: Frank wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 7:36am: Hamas must be destroyed, Gaza must be demilitarised, and Palestinian society must be deradicalised. ... And Israel must stop murdering babies and pregnant women. Oh so it's no longer 'Women & Children' eh? It's now 'Babies and Foetuses'.

Pregnant women, newborn babies, children, women, and innocent men - Israel is murdering them all.

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26^th, 2023 at 11:12am:

Jasin wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 10:29am: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 9:59am: Frank wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 7:36am: Hamas must be destroyed, Gaza must be demilitarised, and Palestinian society must be deradicalised. ... And Israel must stop murdering babies and pregnant women. Oh so it's no longer 'Women & Children' eh? It's now 'Babies and Foetuses'.  Pregnant women, newborn babies, children, women, and innocent men - Israel is murdering them all.

Coming from a well known Sexual Deviant of Ozpol, like yourself and Troll, Liar and Fraud at that.
...I find your post 'hard to believe'.  ;D

hamas started it. After decades of threatening an teaching their kids to kill jews, hamas started it.

This is what happens if you vote in terrorists to govern you.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 26^th, 2023 at 12:23pm:

hamas started it.

Yes.

That doesn't mean it's okay for Israel to deliberately target hospitals, pregnant women, children, and babies.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 26^th, 2023 at 12:23pm:

hamas started it. After decades of threatening an teaching their kids to kill jews, hamas started it. This is what happens if you vote in terrorists to govern you.

If who votes in terrorists, Sprint?

The election was held in 2006, and Hamas only received 44% of the vote (and only won 74 of the 132 seats).

My year nine maths is a bit rusty, but I'm pretty sure 44% isn't a majority.

According to my rough calculations, that means 56% of the population did NOT vote for Hamas.  Now that's a majority!

And, seeing as it was way back in 2006, none of the 8,500 children who have been murdered by the IDF in recent months weren't even born at the time of the election.

Moreover, their parents wouldn't have voted in that election - they were too young.

How many of those 44% do you think are still alive now, Sprint?  I'm curious.

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26^th, 2023 at 2:24pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 12:23pm: hamas started it. Yes. That doesn't mean it's okay for Israel to deliberately target hospitals, pregnant women, children, and babies.

They are not targeting hospitals, pregnant women, children, and babies.  They are targeting Hamas barbarians who are hiding in hospitals and schools and behind pregnant women, children, and babies. On purpose.

Hamas are as dishonest, lying, fake and repulsive as you. So you are parrotting their dishonest lies. You could not do otherwise, unflushable.

Frank wrote on Dec 26^th, 2023 at 7:13pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 2:24pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 12:23pm: hamas started it. Yes. That doesn't mean it's okay for Israel to deliberately target hospitals, pregnant women, children, and babies. They are not targeting hospitals, pregnant women, children, and babies.

Yes, they are.  Deliberately.

How many more dead babies will you fap over?

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26^th, 2023 at 3:40pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 12:23pm: hamas started it. After decades of threatening an teaching their kids to kill jews, hamas started it. This is what happens if you vote in terrorists to govern you. If who votes in terrorists, Sprint? The election was held in 2006, and Hamas only received 44% of the vote (and only won 74 of the 132 seats). My year nine maths is a bit rusty, but I'm pretty sure 44% isn't a majority. According to my rough calculations, that means 56% of the population did NOT vote for Hamas.  Now that's a majority! And, seeing as it was way back in 2006, none of the 8,500 children who have been murdered by the IDF in recent months weren't even born at the time of the election. Moreover, their parents wouldn't have voted in that election - they were too young. How many of those 44% do you think are still alive now, Sprint?  I'm curious.

So why doesn't the majority revolt against the barbaric, murderous terrorist minority, turd!

Where is the Palestinian resistance to the fascists of Hamas?

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26^th, 2023 at 7:15pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 7:13pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 2:24pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 12:23pm: hamas started it. Yes. That doesn't mean it's okay for Israel to deliberately target hospitals, pregnant women, children, and babies. They are not targeting hospitals, pregnant women, children, and babies.  Yes, they are.  Deliberately. How many more dead babies will you fap over?

Address the pertinent point, Bbwianesque turd:


They are targeting Hamas barbarians who are hiding in hospitals and schools and behind pregnant women, children, and babies. On purpose.

Hamas are as dishonest, lying, fake and repulsive as you. So you are parrotting their dishonest lies. You could not do otherwise, unflushable.

Frank wrote on Dec 26^th, 2023 at 7:15pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 3:40pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 12:23pm: hamas started it. After decades of threatening an teaching their kids to kill jews, hamas started it. This is what happens if you vote in terrorists to govern you. If who votes in terrorists, Sprint? The election was held in 2006, and Hamas only received 44% of the vote (and only won 74 of the 132 seats). My year nine maths is a bit rusty, but I'm pretty sure 44% isn't a majority. According to my rough calculations, that means 56% of the population did NOT vote for Hamas.  Now that's a majority! And, seeing as it was way back in 2006, none of the 8,500 children who have been murdered by the IDF in recent months weren't even born at the time of the election. Moreover, their parents wouldn't have voted in that election - they were too young. How many of those 44% do you think are still alive now, Sprint?  I'm curious. So why doesn't the majority revolt against the barbaric, murderous terrorist minority, turd! Where is the Palestinian resistance to the fascists of Hamas?

The pregnant women, babies, and children that Hamas and the IDF are targeting aren't that well armed.

How many more do you want to see slaughtered by Israel?

Frank wrote on Dec 26^th, 2023 at 7:17pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 7:15pm: Frank wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 7:13pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 2:24pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 12:23pm: hamas started it. Yes. That doesn't mean it's okay for Israel to deliberately target hospitals, pregnant women, children, and babies. They are not targeting hospitals, pregnant women, children, and babies.  Yes, they are.  Deliberately. How many more dead babies will you fap over? Address the pertinent point, Bbwianesque turd: They are targeting Hamas barbarians who are hiding in hospitals and schools and behind pregnant women, children, and babies. On purpose.

No.

Israel is targeting hospitals, schools, pregnant women, children, and babies. On purpose.

Frank wrote on Dec 26^th, 2023 at 7:17pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 7:15pm: Frank wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 7:13pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 2:24pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 12:23pm: hamas started it. Yes. That doesn't mean it's okay for Israel to deliberately target hospitals, pregnant women, children, and babies. They are not targeting hospitals, pregnant women, children, and babies.  Yes, they are.  Deliberately. How many more dead babies will you fap over? Address the pertinent point, Bbwianesque turd: They are targeting Hamas barbarians who are hiding in hospitals and schools and behind pregnant women, children, and babies. On purpose. Hamas are as dishonest, lying, fake and repulsive as you. So you are parrotting their dishonest lies. You could not do otherwise, unflushable.

No they're not. They targeted a hospital because they said hamas built bunkers under it. The only bunker found was one built by the Israelis,  and hamas hadn't used it.

Stay off the cool aid moron.

John Smith wrote on Dec 26^th, 2023 at 7:34pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 7:17pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 7:15pm: Frank wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 7:13pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 2:24pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 12:23pm: hamas started it. Yes. That doesn't mean it's okay for Israel to deliberately target hospitals, pregnant women, children, and babies. They are not targeting hospitals, pregnant women, children, and babies.  Yes, they are.  Deliberately. How many more dead babies will you fap over? Address the pertinent point, Bbwianesque turd: They are targeting Hamas barbarians who are hiding in hospitals and schools and behind pregnant women, children, and babies. On purpose. Hamas are as dishonest, lying, fake and repulsive as you. So you are parrotting their dishonest lies. You could not do otherwise, unflushable. No they're not. They targeted a hospital because they said hamas built bunkers under it. The only bunker found was one built by the Israelis,  and hamas hadn't used it. Stay off the cool aid moron.

Every single claim by Israel about Hamas hiding in hospitals, schools, etc. has been debunked with irrefutable proof.

Every single one.

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26^th, 2023 at 7:41pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 7:34pm: Frank wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 7:17pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 7:15pm: Frank wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 7:13pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 2:24pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 12:23pm: hamas started it. Yes. That doesn't mean it's okay for Israel to deliberately target hospitals, pregnant women, children, and babies. They are not targeting hospitals, pregnant women, children, and babies.  Yes, they are.  Deliberately. How many more dead babies will you fap over? Address the pertinent point, Bbwianesque turd: They are targeting Hamas barbarians who are hiding in hospitals and schools and behind pregnant women, children, and babies. On purpose. Hamas are as dishonest, lying, fake and repulsive as you. So you are parrotting their dishonest lies. You could not do otherwise, unflushable. No they're not. They targeted a hospital because they said hamas built bunkers under it. The only bunker found was one built by the Israelis,  and hamas hadn't used it. Stay off the cool aid moron. Every single claim by Israel about Hamas hiding in hospitals, schools, etc. has been debunked with irrefutable proof. Every single one.

Lying, dishonest turdy bollocks.  Only an idiot like you would believe the bollocks you are peddling.

If Israel really wanted to kill all the Gazans, they would have done it easily on 8 October.
There is zero military competition between Hamas and Israel. It has been taking almost three months and counting ONLY because Israel does not want to wipe out all Gazans.

Frank wrote on Dec 26^th, 2023 at 9:05pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 7:41pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 7:34pm: Frank wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 7:17pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 7:15pm: Frank wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 7:13pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 2:24pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 12:23pm: hamas started it. Yes. That doesn't mean it's okay for Israel to deliberately target hospitals, pregnant women, children, and babies. They are not targeting hospitals, pregnant women, children, and babies.  Yes, they are.  Deliberately. How many more dead babies will you fap over? Address the pertinent point, Bbwianesque turd: They are targeting Hamas barbarians who are hiding in hospitals and schools and behind pregnant women, children, and babies. On purpose. Hamas are as dishonest, lying, fake and repulsive as you. So you are parrotting their dishonest lies. You could not do otherwise, unflushable. No they're not. They targeted a hospital because they said hamas built bunkers under it. The only bunker found was one built by the Israelis,  and hamas hadn't used it. Stay off the cool aid moron. Every single claim by Israel about Hamas hiding in hospitals, schools, etc. has been debunked with irrefutable proof. Every single one. Lying, dishonest turdy bollocks.  Only an idiot like you would believe the bollocks you are peddling. If Israel really wanted to kill all the Gazans, they would have done it easily on 8 October. There is zero military competition between Hamas and Israel. It has been taking almost three months and counting ONLY because Israel does not want to wipe out all Gazans.

Every single claim by Israel about Hamas hiding in hospitals, schools, etc. has been debunked with irrefutable proof.

Every single one.

YOU'RE A TERRORIST.

Frank wrote on Dec 26^th, 2023 at 9:05pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 7:41pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 7:34pm: Frank wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 7:17pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 7:15pm: Frank wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 7:13pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 2:24pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 26th, 2023 at 12:23pm: hamas started it. Yes. That doesn't mean it's okay for Israel to deliberately target hospitals, pregnant women, children, and babies. They are not targeting hospitals, pregnant women, children, and babies.  Yes, they are.  Deliberately. How many more dead babies will you fap over? Address the pertinent point, Bbwianesque turd: They are targeting Hamas barbarians who are hiding in hospitals and schools and behind pregnant women, children, and babies. On purpose. Hamas are as dishonest, lying, fake and repulsive as you. So you are parrotting their dishonest lies. You could not do otherwise, unflushable. No they're not. They targeted a hospital because they said hamas built bunkers under it. The only bunker found was one built by the Israelis,  and hamas hadn't used it. Stay off the cool aid moron. Every single claim by Israel about Hamas hiding in hospitals, schools, etc. has been debunked with irrefutable proof. Every single one. Lying, dishonest turdy bollocks.  Only an idiot like you would believe the bollocks you are peddling. If Israel really wanted to kill all the Gazans, they would have done it easily on 8 October. There is zero military competition between Hamas and Israel. It has been taking almost three months and counting ONLY because Israel does not want to wipe out all Gazans.

He's right, Greggery. If Israel really wanted to destroy 75% of Gazans' homes, property and livelihoods, they would have done it easily, starting on 8 October.

If Israel really wanted to blow up Gaza's hospitals, schools and mosques, they would have done this.

If Israel really wanted to target civilian men, women and kids, they would have let loose, killing over 20,000 in the past three months alone, with more to come.

If Israel really wanted to make the population suffer, they would have denied Gazans essential food, medicine, power and internet.

And if they wanted to really pack a punch, they would have denied them a way out, refusing to let surviving Gazans leave, containing them in ghettos of tents where they can torment them even more.

No, Israel are civilised people, Greggery, they'd never do anything like that.

Always, absolutely, never ever, no?

It is the Palestinians who do not want a two state solution. They want Israel wiped off the map and have only one Palestinian state.

Everyone knows this, everyone has known it since 1948. They have not accepted any of the 6 or 7 two state solution presented to them.

Will Israel ever agree to be dissolved, wiped off the map and all the millions of IsraelI Jews to be dispersed across the world again? Of course not.

The Islamic aim is a blood bath. Another holocaust and another diaspora.


https://x.com/MarinaMedvin/status/1815828618418761848

Frank wrote on Jul 25^th, 2024 at 9:12am:

It is the Palestinians who do not want a two state solution. They want Israel wiped off the map and have only one Palestinian state. Everyone knows this, everyone has known it since 1948. They have not accepted any of the 6 or 7 two state solution presented to them. Will Israel ever agree to be dissolved, wiped off the map and all the millions of IsraelI Jews to be dispersed across the world again? Of course not. The Islamic aim is a blood bath. Another holocaust and another diaspora. https://x.com/MarinaMedvin/status/1815828618418761848

If Israel really wanted a two-state solution the West Bank would not be riddled with 700,000 criminal settlers.

Israel never wanted a two-state solution, they wanted total subjugation followed by genocide and extermination.

---

Quote:

It is the Palestinians who do not want a two state solution. They want Israel wiped off the map and have only one Palestinian state.

Proven by the picture posted by LTYC.

Israeli Jews have lied about the two-state solution for 57+ years.

Israeli Jews fear a Palestinian state that is free and capable of determining its own destiny because Palestinian refugees, prospectively ~1 million,  will return to Palestine and the population and its growth will doom Israel to becoming a rump state. The immediate effect would be the Palestinian population of the region would rise from ~ 7 million to ~ 8 million, and rising, outnumbering the Israeli Jewish population of ~7 million.

Also, a Palestinian state would be able to have weapons to defend itself, and its borders would be porous meaning that fighters, weapons, war machines, and munitions to support any conflict could flood in.

Israel has become an outlaw pariah state.

How can a two state solution possibly work without a complete stop of settlements and removal of those all ready in place?

Seriously Netanyahu is basically talking poo and the democrats are rolling around in it and high fivin each other!

Quote:

Netanyahu backs two-state solution

;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D

funniest thing I've heard all week.

Anyone want to buy a bridge?

Frank wrote on Jul 25^th, 2024 at 9:12am:

It is the Palestinians who do not want a two state solution. They want Israel wiped off the map and have only one Palestinian state. Everyone knows this, everyone has known it since 1948. They have not accepted any of the 6 or 7 two state solution presented to them.

You're full of it, Frank! I've lost count of all the times I've had to correct your lies on this.

Here we go again:

"In January 1976, the Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) offered to negotiate the terms of this "two-state" consensus. With Washington’s support, Israel refused the good-faith Palestinian proposal. Choosing expansion over peace, it has done so ever since.

"... critics dismiss the 1976 peace initiative, arguing that the fratricidal Lebanese civil war rendered Palestinian recognition of Israel unthinkable. Yet the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) discerned that Arafat was “willing and able” to deliver - the 1976 initiative was not an aberration, but began a deluge of Palestinian two-state proposals, in 1977, 1979, 1980 and 1982."


https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-negotiation-idea-always-fiction

wombatwoody wrote on Jul 28^th, 2024 at 8:23pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 25th, 2024 at 9:12am: It is the Palestinians who do not want a two state solution. They want Israel wiped off the map and have only one Palestinian state. Everyone knows this, everyone has known it since 1948. They have not accepted any of the 6 or 7 two state solution presented to them. You're full of it, Frank! I've lost count of all the times I've had to correct your lies on this. Here we go again: "In January 1976, the Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) offered to negotiate the terms of this "two-state" consensus. With Washington’s support, Israel refused the good-faith Palestinian proposal. Choosing expansion over peace, it has done so ever since. "... critics dismiss the 1976 peace initiative, arguing that the fratricidal Lebanese civil war rendered Palestinian recognition of Israel unthinkable. Yet the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) discerned that Arafat was “willing and able” to deliver - the 1976 initiative was not an aberration, but began a deluge of Palestinian two-state proposals, in 1977, 1979, 1980 and 1982." https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-negotiation-idea-always-fiction

Quote:

Far from being the radical Islamic jihadist many people today believe him to have been, Yasser Arafat and his PLO were actually far more concerned with hashing out a two-state solution than they were with being mired in endless conflicts and wars with the Zionist state. As a result, they had a more favorable image in the West than the Israelis would've liked them to have, especially at the time of the Oslo Accords. A more antagonistic boogeyman was therefore required to disrupt a two-state solution and justify Israel's ethnic cleansing of the entire region. Enter Hamas. It's no secret that Israel took a leading role in creating Hamas. The European Union's foreign policy chief, Josep Borrell, informed his audience at a recent speech at the University of Valladolid in Spain: "Yes, Hamas was financed by the government of Israel in an attempt to weaken the Palestinian Authority led by Fatah." (Reuters, Jan. 19, 2024) A November 21, 2023 article in the Japan Times titled 'Israel's Historical Role in the Rise of Hamas' referred to the Palestinian resistance group as Israel's own "Frankenstein monster" and stated that,   "Hamas, a spin-off of the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, was formally established with Israel's support soon after the first Intifada flared in 1987...Israel's objective was twofold: to split the nationalist Palestinian movement led by Arafat and, more fundamentally, to thwart the implementation of the two-state solution for resolving the protracted Israeli-Palestinian conflict. By aiding the rise of an Islamist group whose character rejected recognizing the Israeli state, Israel sought to undermine the idea of a two-state solution, including curbing Western support for an independent Palestinian homeland." Even Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu acknowledges this fact, like when he told a meeting of Likud Knesset members in March 2019: "Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas...This is part of our strategy-- to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank." (Source:  Ha'aretz, Oct. 9, 2023) It is often repeated by people who don't know any better, that Palestine has been the major obstacle to 'peace in the Middle East.' Nothing could be further from the truth. Time and time again it has been the Israelis who have stifled serious attempts at peace, though for public relations considerations the opposite is always reported in the press. In 1993, the PLO agreed to recognize Israeli sovereignty over all territories except the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, both of which have been illegally occupied by Israel's military since 1967. Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin agreed to the terms which would become known as the Oslo Accords as part of a United Nations process of establishing peace between the Palestinians and Israel. This angered many of the hardline Likud Zionists, who believe the land of Eretz Yisrael should be entirely devoid of non-Jewish peoples. https://revisionistview.blogspot.com/2024/05/october-7th-in-context.html

"It is often repeated by people who don't know any better,"

That's you, Frank!

"that Palestine has been the major obstacle to 'peace in the Middle East.' "

So now do you see?

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/rocket-attack-blamed-on-hezbollah-kills-children-on-football-field/ar-BB1qK5Xr?ocid=winp2fptaskbarhover&cvid=c8f72b64129a4e79b14a1c29d938a428&ei=9

"Ten people, between the ages of 10 and 20, have been killed after a rocket attack on a football field in Israeli-occupied Golan Heights, Israeli media reports.

The rocket is believed to have hit a football field in Majdal Shams area, where 11 people were initially reported as wounded.

The Israeli Defence Force have blamed the attack on Lebanese militant group Hezbollah, who have since denied the accusation.

The aerial attack came hours an Israeli strike in Kfar Kila in southern Lebanon that killed four with several being members of the militant Hezbollah group, Reuters reports.

Hezbollah and Israel have been trading fire since October, after Hamas' attack on southern Israel triggered the Gaza war, in their worst escalation since 2006. "

Quote:

Netanyahu backs two-state solution

Except Netanyahu thinks two state solution means the 'state of Israel' and the 'Israeli settler states'.

wombatwoody wrote on Jul 28^th, 2024 at 8:38pm:

Quote: In 1993, the PLO agreed to recognize Israeli sovereignty over all territories except the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, both of which have been illegally occupied by Israel's military since 1967. Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin agreed to the terms which would become known as the Oslo Accords as part of a United Nations process of establishing peace between the Palestinians and Israel. This angered many of the hardline Likud Zionists, who believe the land of Eretz Yisrael should be entirely devoid of non-Jewish peoples. https://revisionistview.blogspot.com/2024/05/october-7th-in-context.html "It is often repeated by people who don't know any better," That's you, Frank! "that Palestine has been the major obstacle to 'peace in the Middle East.' " So now do you see?

So why no Palestinian State? Israel did withdraw completely from Gaza only to find it occupied by a terrorist puppet regime. That kicked the PLO out in short order.