An entire family murdered by terrorists... Imagine if this happened to you? Or someone you know? Or to your fellow countrymen? As we've seen from the all the hysteria and carry-on over the last few days, and no attack even occured. Yet this family has had 4 of it's members blown into smithereens...

Nevermind, just remember the number 4... that's all they are... just numbers. But be aware those numbers mean more than just numbers to some people, to their families, to their friends, neighbours, countrymen, co-religionists...

---

Four killed in Afghan air strike

Posted 11 hours 19 minutes ago

An air strike by foreign troops killed four members of one family in Afghanistan's southern Kandahar province, villagers said on Wednesday after bringing the bodies to the provincial capital to show officials.

Civilian deaths caused by foreign troops while hunting the resurgent Taliban have eroded support for the presence of the troops and have also become a major source of friction between Kabul and the West.

In Kabul, a spokesman for the NATO-led force that commands most of the foreign troops in Kandahar said he would investigate the report.

The strike happened late Tuesday (local time), killing three boys and a man, all members of one family, in Arghandab, a lush valley to the western outskirts of Kandahar city, residents said.

"They were civilians killed by the air strike while fast asleep," Jan Mohammad, a village elder, said.

Mr Mohammad was among scores of residents from Arghandab who brought the bodies to show provincial authorities in the city.

The commander of US and NATO forces in Afghanistan, General Stanley McChrystal, issued orders last month placing greater limits on the use of air strikes in order to reduce civilian casualties.

The deaths come amid mounting violence in Afghanistan and as US and NATO forces press on with major operations aimed at securing Taliban-held areas in neighbouring Helmand province.

Source: Your ABC

Give it up, Abu. Nothing the Australian government has done justifies what they allegedly intended to do to their own people as a protest against a government act.

Whether they are alleged terrorists or alleged conspirators in a mass murder plot, they're unwelcome here and Australians who defend the actions over which the accused are charged, are diminished and disgraced by that defence.

Quote:

An air strike by foreign troops killed four members of one family in Afghanistan's southern Kandahar province....

The way these facts are presented, it seems open and shut.

Doesn't it?





But what about the fact that ALL moslems are [self declared] combatants, even they if not uniformed, and even if not [openly] declared?




Personally abu, i am sorry for, and regret, the loss of life in this example you present.

But you cannot prove that these 'civilians', were not combatants.

And moslems themselves, have been murdering other moslems ['civilians'], for the last 1,400 years.

But when THAT happens, where is the outrage expressed, by moslems?


Many more examples, of moslems killing moslems, HERE,

THE RELIGION OF PEACE
http://thereligionofpeace.com/



And all we hear is a deafening silence,
.....from moslems within communities in the West, and within ALL Sharia jurisdictions.

Q.
Why is there no outspoken criticism, from moslems, when moslems kill moslems?

A.
Because if these moslems complain, about moslems killing moslems,
......THEY KNOW THAT A MOSLEM MAY KILL THEM, TOO!

TRUTH.








Sat, August 26, 2006
When Muslims kill Muslims
By SALIM MANSUR
The most famous massacre in Muslim history by armed might of the state took place at Karbala on the banks of the Euphrates in 680. On that terribly bloody day, Husayn bin Ali -- grandson of Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, by his daughter Fatima -- was brutally killed and decapitated as he was offering his mid-afternoon prayers.
Husayn's male companions were slaughtered by the army of Yazid, the caliph (Islam's supreme ruler), while women and children in the company of Husayn, including his wife and daughter, were abused and carried as war trophies to the capital of the expanding Arab-Islamic empire in Damascus.
......Karbala is a necessary reminder of Muslims being unequalled tormentors and killers of Muslims. Saddam Hussein as the ruling tyrant in Baghdad was only the most recent incarnation of an Arab Macbeth and the Mongol Genghis Khan rolled into one megalomaniacal killer.
......Iraq's health ministry reported July was the deadliest month for Iraqi casualties since March 2003. The figures provided were 3,438 Iraqis killed -- 1,855 of those as a result of sectarian violence and 1,583 from bombings and shootings carried out by insurgents.
......There has been no organized protest within the Arab-Muslim world or in the West against the daily toll of Iraqi deaths due to this hate-driven insurgency.
Nor is Iraq the only place where Muslim violence against Muslims rages unabated. There is Darfur in Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Kashmir, Algeria until recently, and hotspots in Iran, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Indonesia and Nigeria, Uzbekistan, Palestine, Morocco, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Lebanon.
How, then, might we explain why Muslim deaths seem only to matter to Arabs and Muslims -- and to apologists of Arab-Muslim politics in the West -- when they occur as a result of conflicts with the U.S. or Israel?
http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Mansur_Salim/2006/08/26/1777155.html

original link, has gone.

try Google,
"When Muslims kill Muslims" SALIM MANSUR
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=%22When+Muslims+kill+Muslims%22+SALIM+MANSUR&btnG=Google+Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=





JUST LIKE ALL MOSELMS, the accused men in this next news report believe they are allowed to kill 'immoral' people.

15 April 2007
Group cleared over Iran murders
Iran's Supreme Court has acquitted a group of men charged over a series of gruesome killings in 2002, according to lawyers for the victims' families.
The vigilantes were not guilty because their victims were involved in un-Islamic activities, the court found.
The killers said they believed Islam let them spill the blood of anyone engaged in illicit activities if they issued two warnings to the victims.
The serial killings took place in 2002 in the south-eastern city of Kerman.
....The accused, who were all members of an Islamic paramilitary force, told the court their understanding of the teachings of one Islamic cleric allowed them to kill immoral people if they had ignored two warnings to stop their bad behaviour.
But there was no judicial process to determine the guilt of the victims in these cases.
The group even killed a young couple they thought were involved in sex outside marriage, but media reports say the couple were either married or engaged to be married.
Lawyers for the victims' families say the Supreme Court has five times overturned the verdict of a lower court that found all the men guilty of murder.
Now the Supreme Court is reported to have acquitted all the killers of the charge of murder on the grounds that their victims were all morally corrupt.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6557679.stm





More 'immoral' ppl killed in 'liberated' Iraq, for having a Western style picnic...

March 23, 2005
Death at 'immoral' picnic in the park
Students are beaten to death for playing music as Shia militiamen run amok
.....In Basra.....Islamic militias already are beginning to apply their own version of that law [Sharia], without authority from above or any challenge from the police.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article434762.ece
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/005463.php

helian,


Quote:

Give it up, Abu. Nothing the Australian government has done justifies what they allegedly intended to do to their own people as a protest against a government act.

Sorry I forgot the 'justifications' only go one way, don't they. Like the supposed justification for invading Afghanistan (9/11) is alright... because it was Muslims who'd be the target of the retaliation. The supposed justification for invading Iraq (hmmm, what was that again??) is alright, because again, it's just Muslim civilians who'll be bombed, shot, raped, burnt alive, imprisoned for numerous years etc.

So reacting to an attack on your people (with violence, bombs, murders etc) is ok and justified, so long as you're not a Muslim, and so long as Muslims are your intended target... I get ya now.

You're appearing more and more fickle with every post you make helian.


Quote:

Australians who defend the actions over which the accused are charged, are diminished and disgraced by that defence.

This is always the typical retort isn't it. Anyone who doesn't take the standard view has to be defending the actions of that disgruntled minority don't they? I don't support their allegedly planned actions, but that doesn't mean I'm going to bury my head in the sand and not examine the reasons and causes behind their hostility. And also to point out clear injustices done from the other side, which completely eclipse what those men are accused of.

Are you suggesting that the deaths of this family of 4 is nowhere near as horrific as an alleged plan/plot to attack an army base? Which by the sounds of it didn't even reach the planning stages? If this is what you're trying to say, then there's quite obviously no reasoning with you. You are amongst the ranks of those who view Muslim civilian deaths as just mere statistics, whilst going hysterical and crazed over an alleged plan which didn't result in a single death.

Quote:

But what about the fact that ALL moslems are [self declared] combatants, even they if not uniformed, and even if not [openly] declared?

If Australia were invaded by China, I'm sure most civilians would take the role of combatant and fight to defend their homes too. That's a human reaction, not a distinctly Muslim one.


Quote:

Personally abu, i am sorry for, and regret, the loss of life in this example you present

Yeh I'm sure you do. I'm sure it really touches deep into your heart. And I'm sure it occupied more of your thoughts over the last few days, than the supposed, alleged plan to maybe attack an army base. That's if you actually even bothered to read about it, before I posted it here.


Quote:

But you cannot prove that these 'civilians', were not combatants.

You're right I can't, anymore than you can prove the thousands of people killed in the WTC on 9/11 were not combatants. Agreed..


Quote:

And moslems themselves, have been murdering other moslems ['civilians'], for the last 1,400 years.

Come on, Muslim civil wars don't even remotely compare to what occured in Europe during that time. The amount of crusades you guys had against yourselves, your inquisitions, pogoroms etc.

Mr. Pot please have a look at your own charred and sooty self first, before even casting your glance at the history of the Muslims.

Abu, stop the act. The targets of the alleged conspirators were your countrymen too. They had a right to protest against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, not to commit murder.

Likewise the U.S had a right to protest against the 9/11 attacks, not to invade two countries, kill hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, leave a trail of rape, torture, false imprisonments and other injustices that'll probably leave the world in conflict for decades and decades to come.

Are you that blinded to how one sided you're being here helian? Every single thing you've stated can equally, and in fact more so apply to the other side, multiple times over.

Your countrymen, Abu... To be murdered as an act of criticism of the state.

Were the hundreds of thousands of dead in Afghanistan and Iraq just murdered as an "act of criticism of the state (The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan)"?? Or is it only Muslims who retaliate that have their motives reduced to such a frivolous matter?

Your countrymen, Abu. Murder.

The same as it would be if Yadda put a bullet in your son's head because he believes Islam to be a dangerous ideology that must be eliminated at all costs.

Quote:

Your countrymen, Abu. Murder.

So you keep saying...

The hundreds of thousands killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, your fellow humans, helian. Murder, Rape, Torture, False Imprisonment, Desecration of their corpses, etc. etc.

Quote:

The same as it would be if Yadda put a bullet...

Is that supposed to help me to de-sensitise myself to the constant and reckless murder of civlians in those other countries? What should I gain out of this illustration helian, should I become like the others here and begin to see those closer in proximity to me as full humans, and those in other countries as non-human, abstract statistics?

Sorry, but it's not working.

Then protest against the wars. Lobby your MP. Demonstrate peacefully, though forcefully, against the war... Safe in the knowledge that the state defends your right to protest and to be protected from murderers.

That advice woulda best been delivered to the U.S about 8 years ago, when they called for their government to invade and slaughter so many Muslims in retaliation.

Or are these pearls of wisdom only aimed at Muslims?

You don't seem to have any real problem with people taking revenge against the civilians of a country they perceive wronged them, so long as it's "us" that's taking the revenge against "them" and not the other way round. And of course if we throw in the complimentary propaganda line about collateral damage and avoiding civilians at all costs, then it makes it all better doesn't it? We're the good guys after all, they're the nasty bad guys.

Quote:

Then protest against the wars. Lobby your MP. Demonstrate peacefully

Not sure if you're aiming this directly at me, or if it's just in general at Muslims, but I'm not even protesting, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of our hysteria, and the self-centred egotistical belief that we're the good guys and they're the bad guys. The fact we killed hundreds of thousands of them is completely detached from what's now happening here... or so we'd like to assure ourselves.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 6^th, 2009 at 11:01am:

That advice woulda best been delivered to the U.S about 8 years ago, when they called for their government to invade and slaughter so many Muslims in retaliation. Or are these pearls of wisdom only aimed at Muslims?

That advice woulda best served those charged in Melbourne with conspiracy to commit murder.

If their intent was to protest against the war to raise awareness of the suffering it causes... They've failed in the worst possible way. All they've done is further harden the resolve of Australians and increased popularity for Australian involvement in the wars.

Quote:

That advice woulda best served those charged in Melbourne with conspiracy to commit murder.

As I thought... Muslims being butchered by the hundreds of thousands, stay calm, send an email off to your local MP. Westerners killed in a fraction of the number, we have to turn the whole world upside down to exact "infinite justice".

Keep your advice.


Quote:

If their intent was to protest against the war to raise awareness of the suffering it causes...

It seems their intent was exactly the same as that of the U.S and other Western countries in the aftermath of 9/11. Would you have offered the same advice to them? Or in the aftermath of Bali or the recent Jakarta bombings?

I doubt it. Look helian, why are you wasting my time and yours, when you're not even prepared to put Muslim deaths on the same scale, when they're even in such a huge multiple of the other side... Perhaps that's precisely why you refuse to put them on the same scale, as deep down you recognise they'd instantly tip it over.

Then take up arms, Abu... Commit murder in the streets of an Australian city in protest against the wars. I'm sure your disgraced family, with a name change and the obliteration of your memory from their minds, will get by.

Only an extremist sees no in between. Either fully support Australia committing all sorts of chaos in the world, and close your eyes to the potential repercussions it could cause us. Or take up arms and wage war against the state...

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 6^th, 2009 at 11:35am:

Only an extremist sees no in between. Either fully support Australian committing all sorts of chaos in the world, and close your eyes to the potential repercusions it could cause us. Or take up arms and wage war against the state...

You mean take up arms against one's own countrymen (commit murder) in protest against war.

I didn't mean anything.

You're the desperado resorting to such ridiculous fantasies, to actually avoid discussing the realities of the situation.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 6^th, 2009 at 11:38am:

I didn't mean anything. You're the desperado resorting to such ridiculous fantasies, to actually avoid discussing the realities of the situation.

The reality is, those arrested allegedly conspired to take up arms against their own countrymen (to commit murder) in protest against war.

The use of the term 'protest' is really pushing it helian. As if to indicate they were just doing it because they merely disagreed with an opposing political view. I'd say they're probably driven by revenge, retaliation and perhaps even personal hatred. Someone who merely disagrees with the war, would not do such a thing.

As I've made it plain to you already, they're probably driven by exactly the same feelings/motives as Americans after 9/11. You won't let yourself explore that possibility, since you probably believe Americans were somewhat justified in feeling that way, whilst these traitors are not.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 6^th, 2009 at 12:01pm:

The use of the term 'protest' is really pushing it helian. As if to indicate they were just doing it because they merely disagreed with an opposing political view. I'd say they're probably driven by revenge, retaliation and perhaps even personal hatred. Someone who merely disagrees with the war, would not do such a thing.

Personal hatred against the state and its people? Then they're potential murderous traitors.

Quote:

Then they're potential murderous traitors.

It took you this long to work that out?

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 6^th, 2009 at 12:15pm:

Quote: Then they're potential murderous traitors. It took you this long to work that out?

No, that was apparent from the first minute.

Good grief, here’s a list of A FEW of the lies and garbage propagated by Abu.


Quote:

“Family of 4 murdered in terrorist attack”

NO TERRORISTS INVOLVED.


Quote:

“Which by the sounds of it didn't even reach the planning stages?.”

THE AFP CONSIDERED AN ATTACK IMMINENT.


Quote:

“If Australia were invaded by China, I'm sure most civilians would take the role of combatant and fight to defend their homes too. That's a human reaction, not a distinctly Muslim one.”

I’M SURE THEY WOULDN’T.  ANY SANE PERSON COULD SEE WHY.


Quote:

“You're right I can't, anymore than you can prove the thousands of people killed in the WTC on 9/11 were not combatants. Agreed..”

ROT.  UNFORTUNATELY COMBATANTS IN AFGHANISTAN DON’T WEAR UNIFORMS OR LIVE IN MILITARY CAMPS.  IN FACT THEY MIX AND ARE PART OF THE CIVILIAN POPULATION IN MANY CASES, LIVING AMONGST NON-COMBATANTS.  WHEREAS IN THE WEST THERE IS A CLEAR DEMARCATION AND YES…  THOSE KILLED IN 9/11 WERE INNOCENT NON-COMBATANTS. I’M SURE ALL SANE PEOPLE WOULD AGREE.


Quote:

“I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of our hysteria, and the self-centred egotistical belief that we're the good guys and they're the bad guys. The fact we killed hundreds of thousands of them is completely detached from what's now happening here... or so we'd like to assure ourselves.”

WE?  AUSTRALIANS?  YOU AR KIDDING RIGHT.


Quote:

“Muslims being butchered by the hundreds of thousands, stay calm, send an email off to your local MP. Westerners killed in a fraction of the number, we have to turn the whole world upside down to exact "infinite justice".”

EMOTIVE, EXAGGERATED, CLAPTRAP.


Quote:

“It seems their intent was exactly the same as that of the U.S and other Western countries in the aftermath of 9/11. Would you have offered the same advice to them? Or in the aftermath of Bali or the recent Jakarta bombings?”

COUNTRIES WAGE WARS, INDIVIDUALS MURDER. THERE ARE RULES TO WAR, WHICH ARE MOSTLY ADHERED TO AND CIVILIAN CASUALTIES ARE NOT EVER AN AIM.  UNFORTUNATELY COWARDS HIDE IN CIVILIAN POPULATIONS IN ISLAM.  UNFORTUNATELY CIVILIANS AID AND SUPPORT COMBATANTS IN ISLAM.

AS FOR BALI…  WE DIDN’T INVADE BALI OR WAGE WAR AGAINST INDONESIA.  IN FACT WE SENT PEOPLE THERE TO HELP THEM
SO MY ADVICE TO THESE IDIOTS IS THAT IF THEY WANT TO FIGHT FOR ISLAM OR WHATEVER THEN THEY GO BACK TO AFGHANISTAN AND FIGHT THERE.


Quote:

“Either fully support Australia committing all sorts of chaos in the world, and close your eyes to the potential repercussions it could cause us. Or take up arms and wage war against the state...”

MORE ROT.  JUST WHAT CHAOS ARE WE AUSTRALIANS COMMITTING? BTW, NOT EVEN ALL  AUSTRALIANS FULLY SUPPORT AUSTRALIAN TROOPS IN IRAQ OR AFGHANISTAN., AND THAT INCLUDES A MAJORITY OF NON-MUSLIMS.


Quote:

“I'd say they're probably driven by revenge, retaliation and perhaps even personal hatred. Someone who merely disagrees with the war, would not do such a thing.”

DRIVEN?  NO… INSANE AND AS SUCH, PEOPLE WE DON’T WANT HERE.


.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 6^th, 2009 at 10:26am:

Quote: Personally abu, i am sorry for, and regret, the loss of life in this example you present Yeh I'm sure you do. I'm sure it really touches deep into your heart. And I'm sure it occupied more of your thoughts over the last few days, than the supposed, alleged plan to maybe attack an army base. That's if you actually even bothered to read about it, before I posted it here.

abu,

That is a wicked thing to say, in view of my clear declaration.







Quote:

[quote]But you cannot prove that these 'civilians', were not combatants.

You're right I can't, anymore than you can prove the thousands of people killed in the WTC on 9/11 were not combatants. Agreed..

[/quote]


abu,

A scenario.....
If moslems [civilians] living in Australia, actually attacked an Australian army base, within Australia, the moslems being motivated by the 'struggle' against [the perception of] the oppression of moslems, by Australians, would those moslems, who participated in such an attack, according to ISLAM, be classified as civilians, or combatants?

Are Jihadists who fight in Allah's cause, combatants?
....even if they 'bravely' hide themselves among civilians?

I believe that at one time countries like Australia, in wartime, would unceremoniously shoot [proven] undeclared combatants, as spies.




The Koran...

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/009.qmt.html#009.123


The Hadith...

"Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." "
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/002.sbt.html#001.002.025

Yadda asked....


Yadda wrote on Aug 9^th, 2009 at 2:26am:

abu, A scenario..... If moslems [civilians] living in Australia, actually attacked an Australian army base, within Australia, the moslems being motivated by the 'struggle' against [the perception of] the oppression of moslems, by Australians, would those moslems, who participated in such an attack, according to ISLAM, be classified as civilians, or combatants? Are Jihadists who fight in Allah's cause, combatants? ....even if they 'bravely' hide themselves among civilians?

I think i've found an answer, as to who ISLAM regards as combatants.....



Quote:

"We don't make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians, innocents and non-innocents. Only between Muslims and unbelievers. And the life of an unbeliever has no value. It has no sanctity."

Quote, Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad, a UK moslem community leader.


Google,
"We don't make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians"
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=%22We+don%27t+make+a+distinction+between+civilians+and+non-civilians%22&btnG=Google+Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=




AND,

Anjem Choudary - another UK moslem community leader.
Here on YOUTUBE, he explains who is innocent to ISLAM/moslems,

"...when we say innocent people, we mean muslims."
"....[not accepting ISLAM] is a crime against God."
"...If you are a non-muslim, then you are guilty of not believing in God."
"...as a muslim....i must have *hatred* towards everything which is non-ISLAM."
"...[muslims] allegence is always with the muslims, so i will never condemn a muslim for what he does."
"...Britain has always been Dar al Harb [the Land of War]"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4



abu,

Don't you find this pretty damning stuff?

Oh right, i forgot, you are a moslem, one of Allah's 'super-people',
......and the slaughter of sub-humans who 'insult' ISLAM [by rejecting Mohammed's death cult], is no crime.


"Ye [muslims] are the best community that hath been raised up for mankind. Ye enjoin right conduct and forbid indecency;......"
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/003.qmt.html#003.110



http://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/cartoon-protest12.jpg
Teaching moslem children, ISLAMIC values [London].