Within ISLAM, the rape and dishonouring of captive women, is halal [kosher, acceptable].



ABU SAID,


abu_rashid wrote on Aug 31^st, 2009 at 2:02pm:

Quote: And how, as you understand it, the rape of captive women, by moslem men, IS JUSTIFIED WITHIN ISLAM, and is not fornication. Raping is not permitted in Islam in any case, and I challenge you to produce any Islamic text claiming it is.

AND, ABU SAID,


Quote:

What you need to realise is that in the Bible (ie. According to the "God of Israel") and the Islamic texts, this is not considered fornication, but is considered like marriage, and the man has a duty of care to clothe, feed and house the woman, just like a wife.

abu is in denial, abu keeps denying that moslem religious texts condone, or allow, the rape of captive women.

Or, he 'weasels' into a position, that if moslem religious texts do condone, or allow, non-consensual sex with women, it is because moslem men are taking on the burden of 'protecting' and 'providing' for those women.

LIAR.


abu,

I will present the evidence [from ISLAM's own foundation texts], and let others judge for themselves, between you and me, and judge [relating to what ISLAM allows] who's words and assertions have more credibility, yours, or mine.



The Hadith itself, is a testimony against the pirate raider Mohammed, and his own men.

The Hadith itself, gives the testimony that Mohammed and his men commonly raped captive women.

And, the Hadith itself, is a testimony that Mohammed and his men were not 'marrying', or establishing 'a duty of care to clothe, feed and house' these captive women.

The Hadith itself, gives the testimony that some of these captive women would be 'dishonoured' [raped by their moslem captors] and then be offered back to their menfolk, to redeem them, with a ransom price.


FROM THE HADITH.....

"We went out with Allah's Messenger" = = Mohammed was in the company of these men.

"on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women" = = describing some form of raiding party, where Mohammed, and his men, 'took captive some excellent Arab women'.

"and we desired them" = = hmmmm, i wonder what this means?

"for we were suffering from the absence of our wives" = = ah, in the absence they wives, they desired these women for sex, to satisfy their sexual lust. This sounds like fornication to me. So why weren't Mohammed and his men stoned to death???

"(but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them." = = in their minds, their moslem captors sought to sexually 'use', and shame, these captive Arab women, and then let their menfolk redeem them. How honourable of these moslem men. /sarc off

"So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them" = = yep, Allah's finest, sought to sexually 'use' these 'excellent' captive Arab women.

FROM THE HADITH, END.

These [above] Hadith verses are cited, with references, here [in another thread],

Bikeway rapist gets 25 years in jail
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1251431040/8#8


Comment:

Q.
How can a person tell that ISLAM's foundation texts [the Koran and Hadith] are a crock?

A.
Just read them, for yourself! e.g....

"Ye [muslims] are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah...."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/003.qmt.html#003.110

The Koran and Hadith, what a made up, self serving, self honouring, crock of moral sewage.






ALSO, please listen to these YOUTUBE audio presentations, which explain 'clarify' a few things,

Part 067 - Dilemma of Muhammadan Muslims
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Dd7adRI5q4
a complete culture of denial

Part 048 - Male Muhammadan Characteristics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6YOzjx5ZzM

Part 009 - Was Muhammad a Prophet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFoj7z2ABQE

Part 033 - Muhammad's Compassion and Mercy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQHjtrpGtfg

Part 188A - Islam's Culture of DENIAL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSXMuJMuUH0

Part 188B - Islam's Culture of DENIAL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWmy1BHZTTY

#1 - ISLAM sanctions the rape of captive women, in time of war, or Jihad,
.....BECAUSE THE ANCIENT JEWS ALSO DID IT.


The position of many good moslems today is,

"The ancient Hebrews did it [3,400 years ago]. There are many accounts of it in the Bible.
...So why are you hypocrites whining about this, when we moslems do this too?"




abu_rashid wrote on Aug 31^st, 2009 at 2:02pm:

Anyway, the "God of Israel" seems to have no such problem with sleeping with captive women... Quote: As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace.  If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor.  But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town.  When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town.  But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder.  You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you. (Deuteronomy 20:10-14) Or this one? [quote]"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house.  But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb.  After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife.  However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."

(Deuteronomy 21:10-14)

Or perhaps this one?


Quote:

They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera's spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil.

(Judges 5:30)

[/quote]


abu,

Thank you for that.



The Jewish supremacism [the Jews were 1 of 12 tribes of Israel], which you cite above, is historic, and stopped at the borders of their 'promised land', 3,400 years ago.

Q.
Yet why do moslems want to point to these OT texts?

A.
Because [being the only 'rightly guided' people], then in the next breathe, moslems can thereby legitimise moslem barbarity today, by pointing to what the ancient Hebrews did 3,400 years ago.

Moslem logic on this point seems to go...

"Why are you castigating and rebuking moslems about such barbarities? The Jews did these things too, 3,400 years ago!! So don't rebuke moslems, because WE MOSLEMS, are God's 'chosen people' too!!"

Pathetic.

What idiocy, and a total hypocrisy, of the moslems who are LIVING TODAY, to justify their barbaric acts IN TODAY'S WORLD,
....by pointing to what Jews did, 3,400 years ago.

But we should not be surprised, because projection [of blame onto their victims] is the favourite defence of moslems.

Moslems have ALWAYS blamed and accused their victims, of the wickedness which is in their own moslem hearts.
e.g.
WTC, 9/11 - The Jews did it, aided by the CIA.
London, 7/7 - An atrocity secretly planned and executed by the UK government, so that UK moslems would be blamed.



Quote:

ISLAM is a deceptive and violent philosophy, a cult, which creates a mental pathology, in those human beings who embrace its doctrines.

"Islam specifically forbids killing of non-combat"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1251160915/1#1


Truth is, that Muhammad and his ilk, were eaten up with cultural jealousy over the Jews [their genetic cousins] being the 'chosen people' of their God, to the apparent exclusion of Arab people.

So Muhammad, inspired by who knows what!, manufactured his very own religious paradigm, where he becomes the new ISLAMIC "Moses" AND messiah.

KORAN...
"Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah. "
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/033.qmt.html#033.021


And, in this new religious paradigm, 'properly guided' Arabs, become the newly 'chosen people' of Allah [their rock god], and the Jewish people are pronounced 'discarded' by Allah.

KORAN...
"Ye [muslims] are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors."
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/003.qmt.html#003.110

And remember, all of the words of the 'inerrant' Koran, are the utterings of Allah, which came through, which were 'revealed' through, the lips of one man.

Mohammed himself.






Believe what you will.
....we all do!






MORE.....

CONTINUED FROM LAST POST.....




#2 - ISLAM sanctions the rape of captive women, in time of war, or Jihad,
.....BECAUSE THE ANCIENT JEWS ALSO DID IT.


One recent graphic example of this practice,

A recent news item highlighting this ISLAMIC-ally sanctioned practice.....


"I TOOK HER AS MY CAPTIVE WIFE - ALLAH MADE ME DO IT!"


http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/photos/2008/08/24/lindhout-amanda-cp-5387174.jpg
Amanda Lindhout - somebody's daughter...
Canadian journalist kidnapped, raped, she is still being held captive in Somalia.

She is now pregnant to one of her kidnappers.



April 8, 2009
Somalia: Islamists rape, and impregnate, Canadian captive
MOGADISHU --Amanda Lindhout, a Canadian journalist who was abducted by habar-gidir .. hawiye al-shabaab wing gunmen in the Somali capital Mogadishu about eight months ago is reportedly pregnant after she was apparently raped by her abductors.
......Some reports suggest that one the abductors made Amanda as his wife...
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/025592.php
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/05/25/somalia-canadian.html


Google,
somalia canadian journalist kidnapped pregnant
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=somalia+canadian+journalist+kidnapped+pregnant&btnG=Search&meta=







And i hope that you non-moslems have informed yourself, and that you are aware, that,

ISLAM HAS DECLARED UNENDING WAR [FOR ALLAH'S LAW], UPON ALL WESTERN NATIONS.

All good moslems believe that in their Jihad, that they are sanctioned to rape 'captive' women, in the lands of war,
....as a method to terrorise the enemies of Allah.


And the ISLAMIC doctrine on Kafir, being espoused to moslem communities today, in mosques,
....is that ALL Western nations [which are hosting moslem communities] are Dar al Harb [the Land of War].

Anjem Choudary - a UK moslem community leader here on YOUTUBE, explains ISLAM's position, to the dumb Kuffar,

"...when we say innocent people, we mean muslims."
"....[not accepting ISLAM] is a crime against God."
"...If you are a non-muslim, then you are guilty of not believing in God."
"...as a muslim....i must have *hatred* towards everything which is non-ISLAM."
"...[muslims] allegence is always with the muslims, so i will never condemn a muslim for what he does."
"...Britain has always been Dar al Harb [the Land of War]"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4




AND,


ISLAMIC 'religious' doctrine, divides the world into two camps.

DIVISIONS OF THE WORLD, ACCORDING TO ISLAM,

Dar al-Islam = = the house of Islam, house of Peace [those places where Sharia has authority].
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dar_al-Islam#Dar_al-Islam

Dar al-Harb = = "house of war", those countries where Sharia does not rule.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dar_al-Islam#Dar_al-Harb

Harbi = = "one under a declaration of war", a non-moslem, WHO DOES NOT LIVE UNDER MUSLIM RULE.

".........A harbi has no rights, not even the right to live." [a direct quote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harbi

Google,
"A harbi has no rights, not even the right to live."
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=%22A+harbi+has+no+rights%2C+not+even+the+right+to+live.%22&btnG=Google+Search&meta=




Be aware, that if you are a non-moslem, good moslems consider you, and everything which you own, as potential 'war booty', including your women.

Allah himself has declared that war booty, the spoils of war, have been made lawful to Muhammad [and moslems],

"And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire (in war), a fifth share is assigned to Allah,- and to the Messenger......"
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/008.qmt.html#008.041


THE SPOILS OF WAR 'HAVE BEEN MADE LAWFUL',

From the Hadith.....

".....I have been given superiority......; I have been helped by terror (in the hearts of enemies): spoils have been made lawful to me:"
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/muslim/004.smt.html#004.1062


"I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand."
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.052.220

Yadda,

I challenged you to show where in the Islamic texts is says _RAPE_ is permitted. You have not done that. None of the texts you brought say anything about rape. They merely speak about relations with captives, which we already know was in the Islamic texts.

So nothing new here...


Quote:

The Koran and Hadith, what a made up, self serving, self honouring, crock of moral sewage.

Since all of the supposedly vile and evil things you claim exist in the Qur'an also exist in your own Bible, one would have to assume you have the same evaluation about the Bible also?

You can attempt to wash it over as..


Quote:

BECAUSE THE ANCIENT JEWS ALSO DID IT

But the fact is the "God of Israel" actually commands those things. This is the dilemma for you, is that it's not just the practice of ancient Jews, it's actually the COMMAND of your own God, whom you call the "God of Israel".

Every single one of the claims you make against Islam, can be found in your own book, being COMMANDED by your God, the "God of Israel", and if these things are inherently evil, then the "God of Israel" is a commander of evil. Time periods have no bearing on this whatsoever. If you claim these things are inherently evil, then they've always been evil, and therefore you worship an evil being "The God of Israel".

You could however adjust your argument and say "Well actually these things used to be good and things God would command, but today we don't think they're so good to do, but they're not inherently evil, as at one point in time, the God of Israel actually commanded them".

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 1^st, 2009 at 9:52am:

Yadda, I challenged you to show where in the Islamic texts is says _RAPE_ is permitted. You have not done that. None of the texts you brought say anything about rape. They merely speak about relations with captives, which we already know was in the Islamic texts. So nothing new here... Quote: The Koran and Hadith, what a made up, self serving, self honouring, crock of moral sewage. Since all of the supposedly vile and evil things you claim exist in the Qur'an also exist in your own Bible, one would have to assume you have the same evaluation about the Bible also? You can attempt to wash it over as.. [quote]BECAUSE THE ANCIENT JEWS ALSO DID IT

But the fact is the "God of Israel" actually commands those things. This is the dilemma for you, is that it's not just the practice of ancient Jews, it's actually the COMMAND of your own God, whom you call the "God of Israel".

Every single one of the claims you make against Islam, can be found in your own book, being COMMANDED by your God, the "God of Israel", and if these things are inherently evil, then the "God of Israel" is a commander of evil. Time periods have no bearing on this whatsoever. If you claim these things are inherently evil, then they've always been evil, and therefore you worship an evil being "The God of Israel".

You could however adjust your argument and say "Well actually these things used to be good and things God would command, but today we don't think they're so good to do, but they're not inherently evil, as at one point in time, the God of Israel actually commanded them".

[/quote]



abu,

I reply, as cited above [in this thread].....


Quote:

I will present the evidence [from ISLAM's own foundation texts], and let others judge for themselves, between you and me, and judge [relating to what ISLAM allows] who's words and assertions have more credibility, yours, or mine.

In other words, you're not up to the challenge.

As I thought, you cannot produce any such evidence of Islam permitting rape, because it simply doesn't exist.

And as I suspected, you'll now completely dodge the issue of 'relations with captives' being commanded and permitted by the "God of Israel" (ie. your God).

So are 'relations with captives' inherently evil Yadda?

Is the practice of raiding cities and taking women and property as "booty" inherently evil?

Is capital punishment for adultery inherently evil?

Are any of your claims against Islam things which are inherently evil?

Or are they all specific to time-period?

yaddas quotes (albeit a bit rambling) to say to me rape and pillaging nonmuslims is recommended.

"relations with captives" is immoral at the least. The japanese called them "comfort women"
yes, raiding cities and overrunning them is evil
beheading adulterers is inhumane, extremist and cruel.

Quote:

"relations with captives" is immoral at the least.

So when the "God of Israel", who you believe is Jesus (pbuh) right? Commanded and permitted these things, he was commanding and permitting immoral things?


Quote:

yes, raiding cities and overrunning them is evil

Again, so your God commanded and permitted evil?


Quote:

beheading adulterers is inhumane, extremist and cruel.

And once more... Jesus (pbuh) commanded something inhumane, extremist and cruel?

are those insinuations in the OT ?

Quote:

are those insinuations in the OT ?

Are you saying you don't even believe the OT is a valid book? ie. you don't even believe in it (regardless of whether you practice it's injunctions)??

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 1^st, 2009 at 10:25am:

In other words, you're not up to the challenge. As I thought, you cannot produce any such evidence of Islam permitting rape, because it simply doesn't exist. And as I suspected, you'll now completely dodge the issue of 'relations with captives' being commanded and permitted by the "God of Israel" (ie. your God). So are 'relations with captives' inherently evil Yadda?

abu,

Isn't this a bit of an irrelevant question, seeing as i don't have any captives at the moment, and i can't envisage acquiring any in the short term?



Psalms 146:8
The LORD openeth the eyes of the blind: the LORD raiseth them that are bowed down: the LORD loveth the righteous:
9  The LORD preserveth the strangers; he relieveth the fatherless and widow: but the way of the wicked he turneth upside down.


Galatians 4:3
Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
4  But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5  To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6  And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7  Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
8  Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
9  But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?i


Quote:

Is the practice of raiding cities and taking women and property as "booty" inherently evil? Is capital punishment for adultery inherently evil? Are any of your claims against Islam things which are inherently evil? Or are they all specific to time-period?

abu,

Yes, and no.


Today, for non-Jews, the old testament, is for teaching, and reference.

Why is that?

Because, if people, any person, wants to participate in it, there is a new testament, a new covenant in place,
....between the God of Israel, and his people.




1 Corinthians 10:1
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2  And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3  And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4  And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
5  But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
6  Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
7  Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
8  Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
9  Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
10  Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
11  Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.



Jeremiah 31:31
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32  Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33  But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34  And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.





abu,

Believe what you will.
....we all do!

Our choice.

Quote:

Isn't this a bit of an irrelevant question, seeing as i don't have any captives at the moment, and i can't envisage acquiring any in the short term?

Right... but I supposedly do?

Anyway that wasn't the question, the question is whether it's an inherently evil practice? Can you please answer that one?


Quote:

Because, if people, any person, wants to participate in it, there is a new testament, a new covenant in place, ....between the God of Israel, and his people.

Again, not what I asked. I asked if it's inherently evil.

As for the new covenant, that's fine, that's what you believe in, but I believe in the Qur'an. Which you claim is evil. I want to know, once more, whether you mean the things mentioned in the Qur'an are inherently evil, or just not good in certain time periods?

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 1^st, 2009 at 11:55am:

Quote: Isn't this a bit of an irrelevant question, seeing as i don't have any captives at the moment, and i can't envisage acquiring any in the short term? Right... but I supposedly do? Anyway that wasn't the question, the question is whether it's an inherently evil practice? Can you please answer that one?

abu,

Almost all things which men do, are evil, and unacceptable to our God.

Do you still require an answer to your question abu?

Then, read again, the specific Hadith quote below, and please, answer your own question.



Quote:

"We.......took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them,.......So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them..."

i



Quote:

[quote]Because, if people, any person, wants to participate in it, there is a new testament, a new covenant in place, ....between the God of Israel, and his people.

Again, not what I asked. I asked if it's inherently evil.

As for the new covenant, that's fine, that's what you believe in, but I believe in the Qur'an. Which you claim is evil. I want to know, once more, whether you mean the things mentioned in the Qur'an are inherently evil, or just not good in certain time periods?


[/quote]


I believe that the OT & the NT scripture, was inspired by the spirit of God.

And i believe that the Koran, and Hadith, most certainly, was not!







abu,

Believe what you will.
....we all do!

Our choice.

abu - you will have to give me direct quotes with references.
I could have accepted your claims on quotes, but you forced me to find quotes form the hadiths, so you find quotes from the OT.

hows them apples?

it's a pity muslims are so small minded and blinkered.
they absolutely refuse to accept that the murderous assassainating mohammad did anyhting wrong.
they refuse any discussion on it.

so, run away and find quotes my brainwashed friend.

Yadda,


Quote:

Almost all things which men do, are evil, and unacceptable to our God.

But according to your Bible, it was actually _COMMANDED_ by the "God of Israel" (ie. your God), not just a mere action of men.


Quote:

Do you still require an answer to your question abu?

But you didn't even answer, you just said almost all things men do are evil.


Quote:

I believe that the OT & the NT scripture, was inspired by the spirit of God. And i believe that the Koran, and Hadith, most certainly, was not!

That's fine, and you're entitled to do so.

But drop the claims that you make this choice based on Islam teaching inherently evil things. Because it's quite clear the "God of Israel" once upon a time, commanded the very same things, and more.

Christians seems to have adapted to changing expectations of the community.

Sadly the same does not apply to the other religion!

happy - christians are to follow the New testament.
the commands abu speaks of are only in the old testament.

christians are not beholden to those, nor any of the others abu brings up from the OT to justify mohammads actions.

christians have not adapted. christianity has not changed.

I am probably wrong with my interpretation of “change”, but these days we do not have witches burned or scientists excommunicated.

no we don't.

Jesus did not say to do either of those things either.

The Rape Jihad  By: Robert Spencer
FrontPageMagazine.com | Friday, September 24, 2004


“Each of us was raped by between three and six men….One woman refused to have sex with them, so they split her head into pieces with an axe in front of us.”

This happened in Darfur, from which Sudanese military personnel actually airlifted women to Khartoum to serve as sex slaves.


Meanwhile, Indira Dzetskelova, the mother of one of the child hostages in Beslan, Russia, reports that “several 15-year-old girls were raped by terrorists.” Her daughter “heard their terrible cries and screams when those monsters took them away.”

This indicates that there are two things the massacre in Beslan have in common with the ongoing massacres in Darfur: both, no less than the 9/11 attacks, are examples of Islamic jihad terrorism, and both are characterized by rape.

The jihadist element has been made clear by the ringleaders of both atrocities. Sudanese General Mohamed Beshir Suleiman recently declared: “The door of the jihad is still open and if it has been closed in the south it will be opened in Darfur.” In southern Sudan, of course, the jihad was waged against Christians; in Darfur, the targets are black African Muslims whose Islamic bona fides don’t satisfy Khartoum. As for Beslan, the Chechen jihadist leader Shamil Besayev warned the Russian government last winter: “Praise Allah, we are dreaming of dying in jihad, we are dreaming of dying on the way of Allah, so that we could earn paradise and mercy of Allah.”


What does rape, then, have to do with these religious conflicts? Unfortunately, everything. The Islamic legal manual ‘Umdat al-Salik, which carries the endorsement of Al-Azhar University, the most respected authority in Sunni Islam, stipulates: “When a child or a woman is taken captive, they become slaves by the fact of capture, and the woman’s previous marriage is immediately annulled.”

Why? So that they are free to become the concubines of their captors. The Qur’an permits Muslim men to have intercourse with their wives and their slave girls: “Forbidden to you are ... married women, except those whom you own as slaves” (Sura 4:23-24).

After one successful battle, Muhammad tells his men, “Go and take any slave girl.” He took one for himself also. After the notorious massacre of the Jewish Qurayzah tribe, he did it again. According to his earliest biographer, Ibn Ishaq, Muhammad “went out to the market of Medina (which is still its market today) and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for [the men of Banu Qurayza] and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches.” After killing “600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900,” the Prophet of Islam took one of the widows he had just made, Rayhana bint Amr, as another concubine.

Emerging victorious in another battle, according to a generally accepted Islamic tradition, Muhammad’s men present him with an ethical question: “We took women captives, and we wanted to do ‘azl [coitus interruptus] with them.” Muhammad told them: “It is better that you should not do it, for Allah has written whom He is going to create till the Day of Resurrection.’” When Muhammad says “it is better that you should not do it,” he’s referring to coitus interruptus, not to raping their captives. He takes that for granted.

With Muhammad revered throughout the Islamic world as al-insan al-kamil, the perfect man, the rapes of Darfur and Beslan are nothing surprising.

What is surprising, or ought to be, is the silence from the Islamic world about the rapes in both cases. Where are the reformers who will dare to say that Muhammad’s example must not be followed in this case? Who will acknowledge that the world has developed principles of human rights that must supercede those forged in seventh-century Arabia? Where are the Western spokesmen who are not so in thrall to multiculturalism that they will condemn rape that is justified according to Islamic religious principles?

The much-lionized “Muslim Martin Luther,” Tariq Ramadan, now banned from entering the U.S., can so far only bring himself to call for a moratorium, not a definitive ban, on stoning for adulterers. Rape of captives? His sentiments are not known. Where is the Muslim Solzhenitsyn, who will speak honestly about the aspects of Islam that so desperately need reform, and call for the overhaul that the system so obviously needs?

The whole world is waiting. But for the girls and women of Darfur and Beslan, it is already too late.

Robert Spencer is a scholar of Islamic history, theology, and law and the director of Jihad Watch. He is the author of eight books, eleven monographs, and hundreds of articles about jihad and Islamic terrorism, including the New York Times Bestsellers The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades) and The Truth About Muhammad. His latest book, Stealth Jihad: How Radical Islam is Subverting America without Guns or Bombs, is available now from Regnery Publishing.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=11278

Not only is it is OK, it is encouraged. Raping women is the 'prize' that Allah gives jihadi wannabees in the dar al harb, the House of War. Jihadi wannabees, therefore have the blessing of Islam to rape infidel women in the dar al harb, hence the legions of Islamic rapists in Australia in recent times. Remember, that only 15% of all rapes are ever reported, let alone, lead to convictions. Many of the Islamic men who came running for the mass gang bang when receiving a text from bilal skaf have NEVER been identified.

Think of you having a beer with your mates, and you get a text saying 'Come over to rape this girl I have trapped in my house?" You'd make the next call to the cops. Not so those members of the Religion of Peace, who were eager to participate in the 'booty' which their evil texts say is their prize.

Also, there is no concept of rape in marriage in Islam. Islam says you can rape your wife, as she cannot refuse to have sex with you, except for medical reasons. Of course, you can beat your wife also in islam, so, any non-compliance can be met with a few punches to 'persuade' her.

Next, any slave girls you may have, can also be raped. Now that slaves are pretty rare, this has been extended to domestic servants. All infidel marriages are annulled when the jihad takes place, so that the jihadis can rape the women they encounter. Mohammed was fond of killing the husbands of infidel women and then taking the women for his new concubines. I remember Abu laughably saying that the women willingly went with Mohammed after their husbands heads were cut off and there was no rape. Yeah, right.

Again, in Iran, the guards rape female captives before executing them.

So rape and Islam go hand in hand. The only rape that is not permitted, is, rape of a muslim woman, and then it can only be proven by 4 male witnesses to the rape. If there is no such proof, the woman is accused of adultery and stoned to death.

Very enlightened system.

abu,

Coming back to your original point / assertion.....



abu_rashid wrote on Aug 31^st, 2009 at 2:02pm:

Quote: And how, as you understand it, the rape of captive women, by moslem men, IS JUSTIFIED WITHIN ISLAM, and is not fornication. Raping is not permitted in Islam in any case, and I challenge you to produce any Islamic text claiming it is.

This item today at Jihad Watch...

September 2, 2009
Ahmadinejad's Imam a Misunderstander of Islam, says Islam allows raping, torturing prisoners
It's so hard to get good clerical help these days. Even the top clerics misunderstand the Religion of Peace™.
"Ahmadinejad's Imam: Islam Allows Raping, Torturing Prisoners," by Nissan Ratzlav-Katz for Israel National News, September 1 (thanks to all who sent this in):
   (IsraelNN.com) A highly influential Shi'a religious leader, with whom Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad regularly consults, apparently told followers last month that coercion by means of rape, torture and drugs is acceptable against all opponents of the Islamic regime. [...]
"Can an interrogator rape the prisoner in order to obtain a confession?" was the follow-up question posed to the Islamic cleric.
Mesbah-Yazdi answered: "The necessary precaution is for the interrogator to perform a ritual washing first and say prayers while raping the prisoner. If the prisoner is female, it is permissible to rape through the vagina or anus. It is better not to have a witness present. If it is a male prisoner, then it's acceptable for someone else to watch while the rape is committed."...
A related issue, in the eyes of the questioners, was the rape of virgin female prisoners. In this instance, Mesbah-Yazdi went beyond the permissibility issue and described the Allah-sanctioned rewards accorded the rapist-in-the-name-of-Islam:
"If the judgment for the [female] prisoner is execution, then rape before execution brings the interrogator a spiritual reward equivalent to making the mandated Haj pilgrimage [to Mecca], but if there is no execution decreed, then the reward would be equivalent to making a pilgrimage to [the Shi'ite holy city of] Karbala."
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027435.php



But of course abu, your next assertion is, that Iran, is not an ISLAMIC state, and that those moslems in power in Iran [the mullahs], are not rightly 'guided moslems', not 'REAL' moslems - LIKE YOURSELF.
/sarc off





abu,

Believe what you will.

Pronounce to be TRUTH, what you will.

BUT, our moral choices, are our moral choices.

In your endorsement of ISLAM, by your actions, by your defence of that evil philosophy in this forum, you personally, are helping to enable, and facilitate the evil and wickedness of ISLAM.

And as a devout person [which you claim to be], do you imagine, that you will escape Gods wrath???

And i confront you, and assert that you DO know in your own heart, what is good, and what is evil.

So why do you hesitate now, to do what you know, is right?



abu, you are defending pure evil.

abu, we personally, are responsible for our moral choices [....before God].

Repent, and be forgiven.







++++++








Isaiah 56:1
Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2  Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
3  Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4  For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5  Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
6  Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
7  Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
8  The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.


Isaiah 55:6
Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7  Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

That's right, the leaders of Iran are not implementing Islam, as neither are the leaders of any country in the Middle East.

Apart from the fact theye're Shia... but if you find a Shia I'm sure you can take it up with them. Since I don't believe in their pronouncements, I can't really answer for them.

yes yes, thats right.
There is no islam in the world, is there ??
nor caliphate?
only exists in your imagination, the world has rid itself of it, we have progressed.

we won't allow you to drag us back to vile harsh sexist dictatorial onemind rules.

Asian gang of predators abused and raped up to 100 girls as young as 12
By Andy Dolan
An Asian (ie Muslim) gang of 'sexual predators' cruised city streets for girls as young as 12 - usually white - who were then plied with drink and drugs and raped or abused.
Up to 100 ‘vulnerable’ girls may have been groomed, abused or supplied cocaine by married fathers Abid ­Saddique and Mohammed Liaqat, and their friends.

A court heard the pair used Liaqat’s BMW saloon to trawl for victims, pulling up alongside girls outside shops or schools and chatting them up before a ‘campaign of calls and texts’ to groom them.

...
When girls refused their advances they were threatened with hammers or thrown out of cars.


...
One girl described a sexual assault involving at least eight men, although charges in relation to that incident were not proceeded with.

Many attacks were filmed on mobile phones as ‘trophies’.

...
Unemployed Liaqat, of Sinfin, Derby, was convicted of rape, aiding and abetting rape, being involved with child pornography, two sexual assaults, four counts of sexual activity with a child, and affray.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1332746/Asian-gang-raped-girls-young-12-picking-streets-sex.html#ixzz16NWGwbb4


This one is for the dozy bints here:

'At first I saw them as father figures'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1332746/Asian-gang-raped-girls-young-12-picking-streets-sex.html#ixzz16NWz4UL6

Quote:

A court heard the pair used Liaqat’s BMW saloon

Sounds like poverty has driven yet another group of misguided youths to rape. We need more social programs to correct this injustice.

Sweden is the rape capital of Europe. What? Sweden?
Who is doing all this raping?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZtc2ma2GEQ

This is all going to blow up in a very big way one day, an not only in Sweden.

Soren wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2010 at 10:23pm:

Sweden is the rape capital of Europe. What? Sweden? Who is doing all this raping? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZtc2ma2GEQ This is all going to blow up in a very big way one day, an not only in Sweden.

That's one hell of a video Soren, this guy doesn't mince words.

polite_gandalf wrote on May 17^th, 2013 at 3:11pm:

Speaking of lying, even this claim of yours is about what Mohammad's subjects did - nothing is mentioned at all about Mohammad raping anyone. So why do you say he did?

gandalf,

Lets us go down to the park and catch some girls
......and then have sex with them.

It is not rape gandalf.......just non-consensual sex.
/sarc off



gandalf,

Rape = = having non-consensual sex

Mohammed did it,   READ ON........








Yadda wrote on Sep 1^st, 2009 at 9:16am:

FROM THE HADITH..... "We went out with Allah's Messenger" = = Mohammed was in the company of these men. "on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women" = = describing some form of raiding party, where Mohammed, and his men, 'took captive some excellent Arab women'. "and we desired them" = = hmmmm, i wonder what this means? "for we were suffering from the absence of our wives" = = ah, in the absence they wives, they desired these women for sex, to satisfy their sexual lust. This sounds like fornication to me. So why weren't Mohammed and his men stoned to death??? "(but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them." = = in their minds, their moslem captors sought to sexually 'use', and shame, these captive Arab women, and then let their menfolk redeem them. How honourable of these moslem men. /sarc off "So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them" = = yep, Allah's finest, sought to sexually 'use' these 'excellent' captive Arab women. FROM THE HADITH, END. These [above] Hadith verses are cited, with references, here [in another thread], Bikeway rapist gets 25 years in jail http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1251431040/8#8

The Bible allows rape, slavery, the sex trade, and murder!  Yet, all we hear is condemnation of Islam and Muslims.  I wonder why?  Could it that some people here are prejudiced?  Nah, couldn't be!   ;D