Islam is boring
by Mary Jackson


It’s dull, dull, dull. My God it’s dull. It’s so desperately dull and tedious and boring and unimaginative and irrepressibly drab and awful and desp-er-ate-ly dull.


Python's Michael Palin was talking about accountancy, but he could just as easily have been talking about Islam. And accountancy is not violent or dangerous, although there have been heated arguments over cash flow hedges and calculators at dawn over embedded derivatives.


Islam is like global warming. It’s very boring but very important. It would be better if the important things were interesting, so we would all take notice of them.


Why is Islam so dull? There are a number of reasons.


Dull things feed off themselves. Writers who review other writers’ books – favourably for fear of a bad review in revenge – end up dull, even if they start out interesting. Television programmes about television are usually dull. Actors are dull when they talk about acting.


The purpose of Islam is Islam – the spread of Islam, the subjugation and destruction of all things non-Islamic. There is nothing else to Islam. It feeds off itself and reproduces itself. Just as a human being would, without challenges, Islam becomes tyrannical – and dull.


Allah, in Islam, created man to be his slave, with no thoughts, initiative or ideas of his own, and in consequence no morality, for morality is only possible if one can choose between right and wrong. As well as being tyrannical and cruel, this is tedious. There is none of the debate that the Judeo-Christian God has, for example with Job, because the perfect Muslim is not autonomous: he is an automaton.


Islam’s rules are quite arbitrary. Muslims are enjoined to put their right shoe on first, but it could just as easily be their left. The rules are arbitrary because Allah is arbitrary. He can make anything happen, and change his laws at will. This makes Allah terrifying, but boring at the same time. Any child knows that a story without rules would be tedious. The rules are different from the rules we have in real life, but there must be internal consistency. And games without rules would be pointless; nobody would pay to watch two top-class tennis players hit the ball into the net and call it a goal.


There are many other reasons why Islam is boring, but I can’t be bothered thinking about them, as I have a freshly painted wall to observe drying. The problem is that we are obliged to think about Islam because, although it is boring, it threatens everything that isn’t boring: art, music, cathedrals, literature, jokes, dogs, love, perfume, bacon, statues, science, wine, beer, Catherine Tate, limericks, films, plays, democracy and Spinal Tap.


How can something as boring, stupid and pointless as Islam destroy something as great as Western Civilisation?


It happens. Think of friends or relations you have known, lively interesting people, who acquire dull wives or husbands. Nine times out of ten, the dullness prevails. A late relative of mine used to remark when two boring or nasty people got together: “Well, at least they won’t spoil another couple.” People level down more than they level up. Something as dreary and nasty as Islam will drag us down to its level rather than allow us to change it for the better. That's the way it goes.


Anyway, I’m bored with Islam, so that’s it for now.



10/10

Quote:

There is nothing else to Islam. It feeds off itself and reproduces itself. Just as a human being would, without challenges, Islam becomes tyrannical – and dull.

The replicators are coming!!!

Come on, have you run out of angles soren?? "Islam is boring"?? Get a life.

This thread is in fact testament to the overwhelming monotony that must be your own religion, which cannot keep you spiritually content, you must constantly seek deficiencies and faults in the beliefs of others.

I must admit, it is hard to know whether to be revolted or bored, so hideous and monotonous are the public, political manifestations of Islam.

"Islam is BORING"



Oh come on soren!!

Is ISLAM really, THAT, boring???          ;D





http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44586000/jpg/_44586384_saudiwomenafp226bodyjpg.jpg
An image of devout young moslem women, hiding what ???
.....their 'honour' ???       ;D       ;D       ;D

New, premarital 'virginity' on sale, for as little as $15, to young women in many moslem countries.




28 September 2009
Egypt anger over virginity faking
A leading Egyptian scholar has demanded that people caught importing a female virginity-faking device into the country should face the death penalty.
Abdul Mouti Bayoumi said supplying the item was akin to spreading vice in society, a crime punishable by death in Islamic Sharia law.
.....The contraption is seen as a cheap and simple alternative to hymen repair surgery, which is carried out in secret by some clinics in the Middle East.
.....The device is reported to be on sale in Syria for $15.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8279276.stm
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/09/egypt-islamic-scholar-calls-for-death-penalty-over-virginity-faking-device.html




soren, soren, soren,

'Islam is BORING'?

The antics of devout moslems are often quite entertaining, to anyone with just a modicum of 'giggle factor', and with the slightest sense of humour.



But seriously, some of these 'antics' by moslems, SHOW TO THE WHOLE NON-MOSLEM WORLD, just how insincere, and lacking in 'honour', many moslems are, in their faith, and in their 'devout ISLAMIC' conduct.

These type of revealed 'antics', show that many moslems are 'faking it' !!!

WHY, are many moslems faking it ???

Who do they think that they are fooling ???

Don't these moslem girls, realise that Allah knoweth all that they do !!! ????      :D      ;D



"Know they not that Allah knoweth what they conceal and what they reveal?"
Koran 2.77


"And Allah doth know what ye conceal, and what ye reveal. "
Koran 16.19


"Fulfil the Covenant of Allah when ye have entered into it, and break not your oaths after ye have confirmed them; indeed ye have made Allah your surety; for Allah knoweth all that ye do."
Koran 16.91

etc, etc, etc.


You bad, bad, moslem girls!         ;D

Is God fooled by our deceptions?

Luke 12:1
In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.
2  For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.
3  Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.



Isaiah 29:13
Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
14  Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
15  Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?

The purpose of Islam is Islam – the spread of Islam, the subjugation and destruction of all things non-Islamic. There is nothing else to Islam. It feeds off itself and reproduces itself. Just as a human being would, without challenges, Islam becomes tyrannical – and dull.

This and the "Name the Islamic Shakespeare" threrad are about the same thing. Islam is unproductive except when it comes to destroying or subjugating everything non-Islamic.

Zzzzzzzzzz.......

Oh come now - just like those crazy Hari Krishnas, some regional Catholic practices and the crazy antics of the Mormons, Islam has its eccentric moments. Tourists really like this sort of thing.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJIofU-0jC0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzkpuztoJiA

Personally I find religions to be very 'interesting'. I also find it interesting how the followers of one religion are capable of doing all manner of silly things, but they are blind to it. Of course they can see the absurdity in other religions. I won't mention John Safran's crucifixion in the Phillippines. That was just plain silly.

I often wonder why it doesn't just click with them - but then I'm non-religious and I accept that I will never really understand.

Quote:

This and the "Name the Islamic Shakespeare" threrad

Since my comments were deleted from that thread, I'll take this opportunity to add my two bob's worth here.


Quote:

According to the French-based and woefully-named Reporters without Frontiers (some terms simply don't translate)

The fact this imbecile doesn't even understand the French "frontières" translates as "borders" in this phrase hardly gives one much confidence in his credentials as an inter-lingual literature critic.

I doubt he would even know of a single Arabic writer, not because they don't exist, but because he's such a poorly-educated ignoramus. The Arabic literary tradition is quite rich and stretches back much further than the time of Shakespeare. In fact the reason Shakespeare is so acclaimed is because of the fact not much else came before him.

Lack of knowledge about foreign cultures doesn't indicate they're deficient, it just suggests an insipid self-centred viewpoint of the world and the various cultures that make up it's people.

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 30^th, 2009 at 9:08am:

Quote: This and the "Name the Islamic Shakespeare" threrad Since my comments were deleted from that thread, I'll take this opportunity to add my two bob's worth here. [quote]According to the French-based and woefully-named Reporters without Frontiers (some terms simply don't translate)

The fact this imbecile doesn't even understand the French "frontières" translates as "borders" in this phrase hardly gives one much confidence in his credentials as an inter-lingual literature critic.

I doubt he would even know of a single Arabic writer, not because they don't exist, but because he's such a poorly-educated ignoramus. The Arabic literary tradition is quite rich and stretches back much further than the time of Shakespeare. In fact the reason Shakespeare is so acclaimed is because of the fact not much else came before him.

Lack of knowledge about foreign cultures doesn't indicate they're deficient, it just suggests an insipid self-centred viewpoint of the world and the various cultures that make up it's people.[/quote]


No, the point is that even half-educated Muslims have heard of Homer, Plato, Aristotle, Shakespeare, Mozart, Beethoven, Hemmingway, Michelangelo, da Vinci, Dante, Balzac, Tolstoy, Einstein, Freud, Camus, Voltaire, Hegel, Hume, and the rest.
Not even well-educated westerners can name notable muslims beyond perhaps Naguib Mahfouz and Avicenna and Averroes. All the glorious Muslim achievers are obscure because they are insignificant beyond their small cultural sphere.

The western notables are notable not because of some insidious western propaganda or because of colonialism but because they are genuinely great and significant. ANd that is because of their universally recognised contribution to their field.

That's the diff.

Quote:

No, the point is that even half-educated Muslims have heard of Homer, Plato, Aristotle...

Please.. Claiming these ancient Greek writers as Western civilisation's own, whose writings are completely disconnected from modern Western culture by not only thousands of years, but also by language and cultural gaps that could fill a small abyss, is just ridiculous. It'd be like Islamic/Arabic culture claiming the Epic of Gilgamesh, Enuma Elis, Letters of Hammurabi, the Enmerkar Legends, Book of the Dead, The Tale of Sinuhe, the Bible, Talmud etc. were all part of the Arabic/Islamic tradition, since they were written in the Middle East, by people with similar languages and contain similar cultural traditions to our own....

The reason these names are known to Muslims/Arabs is because we're the ones who discovered them!!! Europe washed their hands at them and burnt their books by the time Islam arrived on the scene. We found copies of their works in the ruins of their civilisation that we took over, translated them, studied them, and eventually passed them on to you. That's why they're known to us.


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Shakespeare, Mozart, Beethoven, Hemmingway, Michelangelo, da Vinci, Dante, Balzac, Tolstoy, Einstein, Freud, Camus, Voltaire, Hegel, Hume, and the rest.

I could name just as many Islamic writers who are known to genuine Western intellectuals. Not to the Euro-centric ignoramuses you read.


Quote:

Not even well-educated westerners can name notable muslims beyond perhaps Naguib Mahfouz and Avicenna and Averroes.

Ibn Khaldun, Omar Khayyam, Abu Nawas, Ibn Zaydun, Antarah Ibn Shaddad, Ibn Tufail, al-Jahiz, Ibn al-Haytham and many others could be added to that list, along with plenty of other contemporary Arabic writers.

Besides even if the West did not recognise them, that does not detract one iota from their achievements or their greatness. In fact it just makes the West's self-centred introspective view of the world all the more bland and limited.

Each and every people have been grand and well known during their heyday, don't let it goto your head and convince you that you're the only show that's ever blown into town. 1000 years ago, some Muslims may have been deluded with a similar kind of self-importance and distorted impression that they were the only show ever to make the big time also....

The interesting thing is that you [unintentionally] recognised that between the ancient Greeks and the Renaissance, nothing of note came out of Europe, ie. for the entire Christian period.

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 30^th, 2009 at 10:54am:

Quote: No, the point is that even half-educated Muslims have heard of Homer, Plato, Aristotle... Please.. Claiming these ancient Greek writers as Western civilisation's own, whose writings are completely disconnected from modern Western culture by not only thousands of years, but also by language and cultural gaps that could fill a small abyss, is just ridiculous. It'd be like Islamic/Arabic culture claiming the Epic of Gilgamesh, Enuma Elis, Letters of Hammurabi, the Enmerkar Legends, Book of the Dead, The Tale of Sinuhe, the Bible, Talmud etc. were all part of the Arabic/Islamic tradition, since they were written in the Middle East, by people with similar languages and contain similar cultural traditions to our own.... The reason these names are known to Muslims/Arabs is because we're the ones who discovered them!!! Europe washed their hands at them and burnt their books by the time Islam arrived on the scene. We found copies of their works in the ruins of their civilisation that we took over, translated them, studied them, and eventually passed them on to you. That's why they're known to us.

We've dealt with this particular delusion of yours many times already. Your repeating it does not make it any less silly.


Quote:

Shakespeare, Mozart, Beethoven, Hemmingway, Michelangelo, da Vinci, Dante, Balzac, Tolstoy, Einstein, Freud, Camus, Voltaire, Hegel, Hume, and the rest.

Quote:

Not even well-educated westerners can name notable muslims beyond perhaps Naguib Mahfouz and Avicenna and Averroes. Ibn Khaldun, Omar Khayyam, Abu Nawas, Ibn Zaydun, Antarah Ibn Shaddad, Ibn Tufail, al-Jahiz, Ibn al-Haytham and many others could be added to that list, along with plenty of other contemporary Arabic writers. Besides even if the West did not recognise them, that does not detract one iota from their achievements or their greatness. In fact it just makes the West's self-centred introspective view of the world all the more bland and limited.

Ah, so these are household names in Latin America, black Africa, East and South East Ais and only the west is ignorant of them.



Quote:

Each and every people have been grand and well known during their heyday, don't let it goto your head and convince you that you're the only show that's ever blown into town. 1000 years ago, some Muslims may have been deluded with a similar kind of self-importance and distorted impression that they were the only show ever to make the big time also.... The interesting thing is that you [unintentionally] recognised that between the ancient Greeks and the Renaissance, nothing of note came out of Europe, ie. for the entire Christian period.

So even though the west has been globally unrivalled since it stopped the westward spread of islam, that's just being a cultural blow-in.

I am fascinated by your intellectual pathologies.

Soren wrote on Sep 30^th, 2009 at 12:08pm:

Quote: Ibn Khaldun, Omar Khayyam, Abu Nawas, Ibn Zaydun, Antarah Ibn Shaddad, Ibn Tufail, al-Jahiz, Ibn al-Haytham and many others could be added to that list, along with plenty of other contemporary Arabic writers. Ah, so these are household names in Latin America, black Africa, East and South East Ais and only the west is ignorant of them.

You hadn't heard of Omar Khayyam? Even a phillistine scientist such as myself had a copy of the Rubaiyat when younger. It was a very effective 'chick magnet' in those days to be seen reading it.

Times have changed.  ;)

Being embraced for a decade or three by faddish counter-cultural types in the 30s or 60s is not exactly the literary influence that matters.

At any rate, I don't think he is read in the maddrasses of the Hindu Kush or Riyadh, even as he is held up by Abu as a great sign of their supposedly lasting and influntial culture. Those guys have no use for chick magnet literature, you see.

I also doubt that not reading his leaves as big a mental gap as, say, Shakespare, Goethe, Dante, Homer, or even Baudelaire or Pushkin - and that's just the poets.

I was being more than a bit superficial in my appraisal of the Rubaiyat. A cursory look at the number of translations from the 19th century to the present day shows that it's every bit as influential, and probably better known than some of Shakespeare's works.

Here with a Loaf of Bread beneath the Bough,
A Flask of Wine, a Book of Verse - and Thou
Beside me singing in the Wilderness -
And Wilderness is Paradise enow.

Quote:

At any rate, I don't think he is read in the maddrasses of the Hindu Kush or Riyadh, even as he is held up by Abu as a great sign of their supposedly lasting and influntial culture.

Just as I'm sure half of those you mentioned are not the staple in Sunday schools in the Bible belt of America... And?

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 1^st, 2009 at 10:41am:

Quote: At any rate, I don't think he is read in the maddrasses of the Hindu Kush or Riyadh, even as he is held up by Abu as a great sign of their supposedly lasting and influntial culture. Just as I'm sure half of those you mentioned are not the staple in Sunday schools in the Bible belt of America... And?

And Islam is still BORING, intellectually, culturally, scientifically barren and negligible.

What have the Muslims ever done for us, Reggie? Apart from transmitting some Indian and Greek knowledge in a fit of absent mindedness  - usually they aim to destroy everything pre-Islamic.

Islam has not contributed nothing of note to the world for centuries, except mayhem in pursuit of domination. And the "final messenger's" moral universe hinders on things like which shoe to put on first and how many times you should turn around before you throw a pinch of salt over your left - no wait - your right shoulder.  Or something like that. No, it IS the left one, isn't it?

Apart from submission to Allan and Mohammed, it has nothing to offer. ANd so it has not offered anything. Its glory days were when it did not actively stand in the way of things. That's all the Golden Age was. It is a slothful creed, intellectually and otherwise, except when it comes to jihad. It's a warlods's creed. Frightful, dangerous, but still BORING.

Quote:

And Islam is still BORING, intellectually, culturally, scientifically barren and negligible.

I'll tell you what... something around here is getting a little boring...


Quote:

Islam has not contributed nothing of note to the world for centuries

Nice double negative. I agree, Islam has not contributed nothing of note.


Quote:

Its glory days were when it did not actively stand in the way of things.

Ahhh right... so the entire Islamic golden age was just bound to happen anyway, just lucky some leaders came into power who didn't stand in it's way  ;D

I don't even need to contribute to this thread... you're quite capable of making yourself look like an idiot without me.

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 1^st, 2009 at 12:58pm:

Quote: Islam has not contributed nothing of note to the world for centuries Nice double negative. I agree, Islam has not contributed nothing of note.

I was translating from the Arabic, as one does....

You know what was meant, that's why you are latching onto typos.

abu - "the islamic golden age..............."

we now have horseless carriages !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yadda wrote on Sep 29^th, 2009 at 8:40am:

[size=14]28 September 2009 Egypt anger over virginity faking A leading Egyptian scholar has demanded that people caught importing a female virginity-faking device into the country should face the death penalty. Abdul Mouti Bayoumi said supplying the item was akin to spreading vice in society, a crime punishable by death in Islamic Sharia law. .....The contraption is seen as a cheap and simple alternative to hymen repair surgery, which is carried out in secret by some clinics in the Middle East. .....The device is reported to be on sale in Syria for $15. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8279276.stm http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/09/egypt-islamic-scholar-calls-for-death-penalty-over-virginity-faking-device.html soren, soren, soren, 'Islam is BORING'? The antics of devout moslems are often quite entertaining, to anyone with just a modicum of 'giggle factor', and with the slightest sense of humour. But seriously, some of these 'antics' by moslems, SHOW TO THE WHOLE NON-MOSLEM WORLD, just how insincere, and lacking in 'honour', many moslems are, in their faith, and in their 'devout ISLAMIC' conduct. These type of revealed 'antics', show that many moslems are 'faking it' !!! WHY, are many moslems faking it ??? Who do they think that they are fooling ??? Don't these moslem girls, realise that Allah knoweth all that they do !!! ????      :D      ;D

You Can't Be Serious
William Saletan writes at Slate:

If you're a woman in a conservative Muslim country, you had better bleed on your wedding night. If you don't, your husband or his family will know you aren't a virgin. For that, you could be beaten or killed.

If you're a man, on the other hand, all you have to do on your wedding night is ejaculate. Nobody expects you to bleed or produce any other proof of virginity.

Some day, this barbaric and hypocritical tradition will end. Until then, the best we can do is fool it. You want blood on your wedding night? We'll give you blood. Fake blood.

For many years, doctors have quietly offered hymenoplasty, a procedure that restores your hymen so you can fake virginity on your wedding night. And now you don't even need a doctor. Joseph Freeman of the Associated Press reports:

The Artificial Virginity Hymen kit, distributed by the Chinese company Gigimo, costs about $30. It is intended to help newly married women fool their husbands into believing they are virgins—culturally important in a conservative Middle East where sex before marriage is considered by many to be illicit. The product leaks a blood-like substance when inserted and broken. Gigimo advertises shipping to every Arab country.

On its Web site, Gigimo explains more about the product:

Artificial Virginity Hymen is created from Kyoto, Japan at 1993. it was first introduced to the locals, then it gets famous and spread to Thailand at 1995 and now available in South East Asia, South Asia and in the Middle East countries. It is mainly made of natural albumin, medical use inflation element and water-soluble base medicinal preparation which have no side effect. Insert this artificial hymen into your vagina carefully. It will expand a little and make you feel tight. When your lover penetrate, it will ooze out a liquid that look like blood not too much but just the right amount. Add in a few moans and groan, you will pass through undetectable.

Outraged Egyptian lawmakers are demanding a ban on the kit. Freeman reports:

Sheik Sayed Askar, a member of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood who is on the parliamentary committee on religious affairs, said the kit will make it easier for Egyptian women to give in to temptation. He demanded the government take responsibility for fighting the product. ... Prominent Egyptian religious scholar Abdel Moati Bayoumi said anyone who imports the artificial hymen should be punished. "This product encourages illicit sexual relations. Islamic culture forbids these relations except within the confines of marriage," Bayoumi said. ... "If this thing enters Egypt, the country is going to go to waste. God protect us," commented a reader on the Web site of Egyptian newspaper Al-Youm Al-Sabie.

Pause for a moment to consider what these men are asking God to protect them from: a cheap, mass-produced insert that releases fake blood. It's the technical equivalent of a Halloween gag. But to them, this is no gag. It's an offense against God.

In this way, the artificial hymen serves as a useful test of religious idiocy. If a $30 item that leaks fake blood violates your faith so profoundly that you must ban it, then what you have isn't really a faith. It's a fetish. And your fetish won't survive globalization...

thats a dreadful thing to say about fetishs soren !!!!!!!!!!!!

So it should be banned, since it is a device used to commit fraud and fabricate something about yourself which is not true.

obsessives would call for that.

get used to the deflating of islam

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 12^th, 2009 at 9:38am:

So it should be banned, since it is a device used to commit fraud and fabricate something about yourself which is not true.

Hmmm,

An interesting point of argument.

But this particular argument, never seems to be of any concern to those moslems who promote the veracity of the Koran.

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 12^th, 2009 at 9:38am:

So it should be banned, since it is a device used to commit fraud and fabricate something about yourself which is not true.

Caveat emptor

........ or in abus mindset, protect the great deception of islam by any means ???

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 12^th, 2009 at 9:38am:

So it should be banned, since it is a device used to commit fraud and fabricate something about yourself which is not true.

Abu - this is where the hypocrisy lies. The women have to be virgins - but what about the men? What do they have to prove, or are they taken at their word that they're pure? What happens to the women they've had sex with previously? Are they no longer suitable for marriage?

mantra,


Quote:

Abu - this is where the hypocrisy lies. The women have to be virgins

Wait a minute... can you show me where I stated anything about anyone having to be a virgin???

All I said was the devices are wrong, because they facilitate people lying and deceiving one another. Nowhere did I mention anything about anyone having to be a virgin.


Quote:

but what about the men?

Couldn't agree more, it's despicable that a man who isn't a virgin would expect his wife to be.


Quote:

What happens to the women they've had sex with previously? Are they no longer suitable for marriage?

I don't know, and I don't agree with such things, and neither does Islam, but that's got nothing to do with the topic of people selling devices that help to deceive a life partner about your body...

soren,


Quote:

Some day, this barbaric and hypocritical tradition will end. Until then, the best we can do is fool it. You want blood on your wedding night? We'll give you blood. Fake blood.

The quite ironic part about this topic is that your own holy book is probably the source of these stupid blood-stained sheet traditions which are still quite popular amongst many Christian cultures too btw.

And let us examine why:


Quote:

If a man takes a wife and, after lying with her, dislikes her and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, "I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity," then the girl's father and mother shall bring proof that she was a virgin to the town elders at the gate. The girl's father will say to the elders, "I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. Now he has slandered her and said, 'I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.' But here is the proof of my daughter's virginity." Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town, and the elders shall take the man and punish him. (Deuteronomy 22:13-18)

mantra wrote on Oct 12^th, 2009 at 1:45pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 12th, 2009 at 9:38am: So it should be banned, since it is a device used to commit fraud and fabricate something about yourself which is not true. Abu - this is where the hypocrisy lies. The women have to be virgins - but what about the men? What do they have to prove, or are they taken at their word that they're pure? What happens to the women they've had sex with previously? Are they no longer suitable for marriage?

mantra,

All good points to raise.





mantra,

Regards abu's reply to you, where he quotes Jewish scripture, abu is not a Jew.

abu, claims he is a good moslem, and moslems claim they have their own religious texts to quote from.

So why moslems need to quote Jewish scripture, to make a point about moslem virtue, and to support a moslem argument, is beyond me?

Particularly, as moslems make the claim that Jewish and Christian scriptures are in fact corrupted, and are no longer valid, and are no longer 'sanctified' documents.

So why do moslems refer to them, to prove, to support, their moslem arguments?



But perhaps the reason that abu and ISLAM happily refer to Jewish and Christian scriptures, is from a desperate need on the part of moslems to prove ISLAM's provenance,
.....through constantly referring back to Judaism, and Christianity, and THEIR scripture?


Dictionary,
provenance = =
1 the place of origin or earliest known history of something.
2 a record of ownership of a work of art or an antique.




n.b.
What does ISLAM portray, about itself [in relation to Judaism, and Christianity]?

To the uninformed [non-moslem], ISLAM deceitfully portrays presents itself, as a continuation of Judaism and Christianity.
.....this is a lie.

Moslems try to deceitfully convey an assurance [to uninformed non-moslems], that ISLAM has a common spiritual heritage, with Judaism and Christianity.
.....this is a lie.

It is a fact that devout moslems always portray ISLAM, to other moslems, NOT as an equal co-existing religion, or even as a religion which 'evolved' from Judaism or Christianity,

Rather, devout moslems assert that ISLAM is at the same time, both a replacement of, and a *repudiation* of, Judaism and Christianity.

The fact is that moslems are taught by their religion, to have an enmity [hatred] for all Jews and all Christians.

Yadda wrote on Oct 13^th, 2009 at 9:17am:

n.b. What does ISLAM portray, about itself [in relation to Judaism, and Christianity]? To the uninformed [non-moslem], ISLAM deceitfully portrays presents itself, as a continuation of Judaism and Christianity. .....this is a lie. Moslems try to deceitfully convey an assurance [to uninformed non-moslems], that ISLAM has a common spiritual heritage, with Judaism and Christianity. .....this is a lie.

The fact is, that ISLAM is a false religion, with a false prophet, for a false people.

Quote:

I don't know, and I don't agree with such things, and neither does Islam

Abu

This is sort of the whole point Abu, you don't know, and neither does Islam, but more pertinent is that nobody can ever accurately define what Islam does know, becuase as we went through way back when you very first joined this forum, Islam has nobody who sets any standards, in fact Islam itself is little more than a confluence of strange people who ascribe some divine inspiration to an equally strange book.

Not too dissimiliar to evangelical christians, who praise their book, but make up their own interpretations of it as they go.

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 13^th, 2009 at 11:10am:

You're full of it mozza. Islam has very clearly defined standards. And a wife being a virgin is not one of them. However, to lie and deceive her husband to be (and likewise if he lies to her) is wrong. Do you not agree? Or do you think it's fine to deceive like that?

Deceive, 'like that' ???


abu,

Why not just cut to the chase, on that issue [deception]?

And concede that ISLAM considers itself to be at war with all mankind [all 'unbelievers'].

And therefore, ISLAM justifies, and encourages, deception of ANYONE, where that deception is perceived [by a moslem liar] to aid the Jihad, i.e. to aid 'the Cause of Allah'.




ISLAM......a false religion, for a false people.




Treachery is in the genes of mankind.

ISLAM teaches, and encourages it.

IMO, treachery, is one of the things God hates the most, in men.





According to the Koran, 'Allah is the best of schemers [deceivers - how true!].'

"And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers."
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/003.qmt.html#003.054




And in the Bible, the God of Israel is attributed thus,

Job 12:16
With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived *and the deceiver* are his.






++++++++






Psalms 5:5
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
6  Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing [deceit]: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.


Psalms 15:1
LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?
2  He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.


Proverbs 8:5
O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart.
6  Hear; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips shall be right things.
7  For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips.
8  All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.


Isaiah 5:20
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 13^th, 2009 at 10:23am:

Quote: So why moslems need to quote Jewish scripture, to make a point about moslem virtue, and to support a moslem argument, is beyond me? I don't think you're that daft Yadda, so that means you're deliberately trying to be misleading. The simple fact is I quoted that scripture, because it's quite ironic that this practise has no basis in Islam, yet it DOES have a basis in your own scriptures. And yet you're the ones here deriding Muslims for it, when the only reason some Muslims might practise this is probably because they learnt it from Jews and Christians whom they lived amongst.

And yet,  the Chinese company Gigimo, having done their market research, are exporting the kit to, ahem, Muslim countries.

Typical Chinese, eh? Stooges.

Soren wrote on Oct 13^th, 2009 at 12:07pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 13th, 2009 at 10:23am: Quote: So why moslems need to quote Jewish scripture, to make a point about moslem virtue, and to support a moslem argument, is beyond me? I don't think you're that daft Yadda, so that means you're deliberately trying to be misleading. The simple fact is I quoted that scripture, because it's quite ironic that this practise has no basis in Islam, yet it DOES have a basis in your own scriptures. And yet you're the ones here deriding Muslims for it, when the only reason some Muslims might practise this is probably because they learnt it from Jews and Christians whom they lived amongst. And yet,  the Chinese company Gigimo, having done their market research, are exporting the kit to, ahem, Muslim countries. Typical Chinese, eh? Stooges.

LOL

Yes, good point soren.             :)

i've had enough of islam bickering in a spiritual area.

muslims are not spiritual, bickering is not spiritual.

bye bye abu

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 13^th, 2009 at 6:36pm:

Yeh and the original topic is really spiritual "Islam is boring".

Because its tedium wearies the spirit.

Islam lacks the spirit of interpretation, unfolding, the hermenutic engagement, dialogue. Its rules are arbitrary, like its oriental despot. It lacks that most important, elemental, crucial human need - relationship. It is not renewed in each person, in each encounter but quite the opposite - it boxes everyone into the same 7th century misundertsanding. It reduces everything to the arbitrary Arabian rules of the early 7th century. Submit, be a dhimmi or die - the threefold path of Islam.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 13^th, 2009 at 4:19pm:

i've had enough of islam bickering in a spiritual area. muslims are not spiritual, bickering is not spiritual. bye bye abu

sprint,

It is difficult [if not impossible] to have a debate, or dialogue, where one side of an argument is gagged, or suppressed.



Dictionary,
dialogue (dialog) = = conversation between two or more people as a feature of a book, play, or film. discussion directed towards exploration of a subject or resolution of a problem.


Gagging or suppressing open debate, is how tyrannies operate.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 13^th, 2009 at 4:19pm:

i've had enough of islam bickering in a spiritual area. muslims are not spiritual, bickering is not spiritual. bye bye abu

I hope you did not ban him.
Did you?

Soren wrote on Oct 13^th, 2009 at 7:30pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 13th, 2009 at 6:36pm: Yeh and the original topic is really spiritual "Islam is boring". Because its tedium wearies the spirit. Islam lacks the spirit of interpretation, unfolding, the hermenutic engagement, dialogue. Its rules are arbitrary, like its oriental despot. It lacks that most important, elemental, crucial human need - relationship. It is not renewed in each person, in each encounter but quite the opposite - it boxes everyone into the same 7th century misundertsanding. It reduces everything to the arbitrary Arabian rules of the early 7th century. Submit, be a dhimmi or die - the threefold path of Islam.

A propos 7th century bloke...

---

Soren wrote on Sep 5^th, 2009 at 9:58pm:

Islam is boring by Mary Jackson Why is Islam so dull? There are a number of reasons.

The question isn't about Islam, but about dullness.

You find things boring when you have no context to place them in. I find car engines boring because I know absolutely nothing about them.

Islam? I must admit, I find Islam a tad dull myself, but just as dull as High Anglicanism, or Orthadox Judaism, or Opus Dei.

As a teacher, you have to be very careful when you introduce new material to kids if you don't want them to get the "boring" label out. Most of the time you have to fool them into learning.

Islam might seem boring, but spirituality is plain hard work. The church can jazz it all up with talk of miracles or happy-clappy revivals or "prosperity" doctrine, but that's not spiritualisty, it's self-help. On the whole, spiritual work is painstaking, lonely, and relentless.

Of course, the best teachers fool you into learning...

Karnal wrote on Nov 9^th, 2009 at 2:28pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 5th, 2009 at 9:58pm: Islam is boring by Mary Jackson Why is Islam so dull? There are a number of reasons. The question isn't about Islam, but about dullness. You find things boring when you have no context to place them in. I find car engines boring because I know absolutely nothing about them. Islam? I must admit, I find Islam a tad dull myself, but just as dull as High Anglicanism, or Orthadox Judaism, or Opus Dei. As a teacher, you have to be very careful when you introduce new material to kids if you don't want them to get the "boring" label out. Most of the time you have to fool them into learning. Islam might seem boring, but spirituality is plain hard work. The church can jazz it all up with talk of miracles or happy-clappy revivals or "prosperity" doctrine, but that's not spiritualisty, it's self-help. On the whole, spiritual work is painstaking, lonely, and relentless. Of course, the best teachers fool you into learning...

ZZZzzz......

mozzaok wrote on Oct 13^th, 2009 at 10:23am:

Quote: I don't know, and I don't agree with such things, and neither does Islam Abu This is sort of the whole point Abu, you don't know, and neither does Islam, but more pertinent is that nobody can ever accurately define what Islam does know, becuase as we went through way back when you very first joined this forum, Islam has nobody who sets any standards, in fact Islam itself is little more than a confluence of strange people who ascribe some divine inspiration to an equally strange book. Not too dissimiliar to evangelical christians, who praise their book, but make up their own interpretations of it as they go.

Exactly. There's no pope in Islam, there's no central council, and Islam's glory days were when there was an Aristotelian love of ethics - when it was right that people debate their own lives and laws themselves.

The move to rules and regulations is not fundamentally Islamic, it's modern. The Sufi tradition is rich in art and poetry, and it was the Islamic world that preserved the Greek classics and enabled the Renaissance to happen.

True Islam, I believe, isn't about getting everyone to submit to Shariah law, it's about encouraging us to open up to silence and the radiance that lies within. It is about facilitating your own experience of the divine.

Like Buddhism, like hinduism, like some traditions of Judaism, and like some monastic orders in Christianity.

Sure, religion often triumphs over spirituality, but if you genuinely seek you can find.

And yes, the rest IS boring.

Karnal wrote on Nov 10^th, 2009 at 10:06am:

Exactly. There's no pope in Islam, there's no central council, and Islam's glory days were when there was an Aristotelian love of ethics - when it was right that people debate their own lives and laws themselves.

Hi Karnal,

You paint a pleasant picture, of what ISLAM was, or perhaps, may have been.

Perhaps, it was so, but sorry, i doubt it.







Quote:

The move to rules and regulations is not fundamentally Islamic, it's modern. The Sufi tradition is rich in art and poetry, and it was the Islamic world that preserved the Greek classics and enabled the Renaissance to happen.

Karnal,

'Dead' wrong, here!

EXAMPLE, from 'old' ISLAMIC law texts,

ISLAMIC law texts declare whom moslems can lawfully kill,
....'unbelievers', especially 'unbelievers' who oppose the spread of ISLAM...

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/law/fiqhussunnah/fus3_50.html#3.110    ......[dead link now]
alternate site...
http://www.islamonline.net/English/Ramadan/1424/10/fiqhi_issues/Rulings_of_Fasting/article_02.shtml

n.b. "Whoever......*becomes an unbeliever*.....his blood may legally be spilled."








Quote:

True Islam, I believe, isn't about getting everyone to submit to Shariah law, it's about encouraging us to open up to silence and the radiance that lies within. It is about facilitating your own experience of the divine. Like Buddhism, like hinduism, like some traditions of Judaism, and like some monastic orders in Christianity. Sure, religion often triumphs over spirituality, but if you genuinely seek you can find. And yes, the rest IS boring.

Karnal,

Can i suggest that you should take off your rose coloured glasses while examining ISLAM?

Please!, you are a moslem???

Please study your own religious texts!

The Hadith...

"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' ...."
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.052.196


The Koran instructs moslems, that,

"Fighting [against non-moslems] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/002.qmt.html#002.216
[i.e.... fighting the non-moslems, to bring Allah's way, is an obligation upon EVERY molem.]

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/009.qmt.html#009.029







Karnal,

You seem to be sincere in your ignorance of what ISLAM truly represents.

Please, do not listen to [only] your imam.

#1,
Read the Koran and Hadith for yourself.



#2,
Please, also search out opinions about ISLAM, from ex-moslems.

Please consider, many of these ex-moslems know ISLAM **intimately** !!

www.apostatesofislam.com/

www.faithfreedom.org/

www.islam-watch.org/IW/aboutus.htm




#3,
What is revealed in these following audio presentations may offend you, but please listen to them with an open heart.

A full list of all, al Rassooli's "AhmadsQuran3" talks, available on YOUTUBE....
http://www.al-rassooli.com/ahmadsquran3/

Yadda, you might have read or heard of some of the Torah - it's what Christians call the Old Testament.

In it, God told Abraham to kill his own son. David was told to go out and get 100 gentile foreskins (he came back with 500). Adulterers and sodomites must be stoned to death, you can't touch a woman within 7 days of her period, your gentile slaves must be circumcised...

Not to mention all the Philistines that had to be slaughtered and all the going out and multiplying in the name of God's chosen people.

Do we really believe that Judaism is intrinsically brutal and violent?

I don't have an imam, Yadda. I'm not Muslim. But I do think the need to seek out evil in OTHER people's ideas and beliefs is a very human trait, and one that's not confined to this thread alone.

Karnal,

I believe that all we humans, each of us, is a 'blank sheet', upon which this life will 'write'.

But, what are the words, which this life writes upon us?




I firmly believe that we are 'guided' by the spirits which surround us.

Further, i believe that we ourselves, are the 'gatekeepers' of our hearts.

And that we choose which spirits we allow into our hearts.

Good, or, evil.

The choice, is always ours.



The choice is ours.

Ezekiel 33:11
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?


We are all one flesh.

All mankind, each one of us, can choose to be a part of the house of 'Israel'.