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With her tight jeans, elaborate make-up and flowing hair, Tasha looks for all the world like a striking young woman. But her all-important Malaysian ID card declares she is a Muslim man. "In Islam, there are only men and women, there are no transsexuals, and this is an Islamic country so that makes life very difficult for us," says the 28-year-old who has been cross-dressing since she was a child. Like many transsexuals in Malaysia, a conservative and mostly Muslim country, the clash between ID card and appearance means Tasha is shunned by employers, and forced to make her living as a sex worker. "It's a hard life, people don't like us, they're always making fun of us," she says as she prepares for another night in the grimy alleyways of Chow Kit, the red light district of the capital Kuala Lumpur. Tasha endures drunken clients, violent pimps, and aggressive competition from other transsexual prostitutes, but what really frightens her are the raids mounted by police and religious authorities. Enforcement officials from the Islamic Affairs Department (JAWI) -- notorious for swooping on nightclubs and motels in search of Muslims drinking or having extramarital sex -- regularly descend on the streets of Chow Kit. Sex workers are sent scattering on their high heels, and those who are caught and hauled off face jail or intensive "counselling" sessions like a two-week interrogation Tasha once endured. "They asked me why I didn't want to be a man, how I became like this and why I behave like this. But it didn't change my mind!" she says as she layers on make-up before hitting the streets where she has worked since she was 15. Tasha puts on a brave face, but the the pain is clear when she relates how she has struggled for acceptance from her family, her religion and her country. Although she is on the margins of society, she continues to perform the Muslim prayers, fasts during the holy month of Ramadan, and respected her mother's wish that she not undergo sex-change surgery. "Of course I still believe I'm a Muslim, it's just that the religion cannot accept us transsexuals," she says. "Why can't Islam accept us? We are human beings as well. I am also one of God's creations." It was not always this way for transsexuals in Malaysia, where they are known as "mak nyah". "Until the early 1980s transsexuals were usually accepted in Malaysia, they could go for a sex change and amend their identity card," says Teh Yik Koon from the National Defence University who has written a book on mak nyahs. "At that time quite a few had sex changes, some became happily married and even adopted children." But in 1983 a "fatwa", or Islamic ruling, that prohibited gender-reassignment surgery as well as cross-dressing was imposed on all Malaysian Muslims, who make up 60 percent of the multicultural population. "So now they're not accepted, there's no such thing as transsexuals according to Islam in Malaysia," says Teh, who estimates there are in fact at least 20,000 in the country. "The biggest dilemma for a Muslim transsexual is the ID card, because it states they are a Muslim man but when you look at them they look like a woman," she says. Some do manage to find regular work, typically as hairdressers, make-up artists, and boutique sales assistants, but advocates say that at least 70 percent resort to prostitution. "At 15 I ran away from home and to Chow Kit. I cried at first, but luckily I had other transsexuals who helped me find a place to stay," says Tasha. On a good night she can earn 500 ringgit (142 US dollars), a huge sum by Malaysian standards, but since the economic downturn she now gets only two or three clients a night who may pay as little 50 ringgit a time. Now that her mother has died, she plans to go to Thailand later this year and have sex-change and breast augmentation surgery. "If you want to become pretty quickly, then you can't be afraid," she says. "Only then will I feel like a complete woman." Transsexuals do not need to be selling their bodies in order to attract attention from authorities. Last year, Islamic religious police arrested 16 for taking part in a beauty pageant at a beachside resort. Influential Islamic cleric Harussani Zakaria, who helped establish the 1983 fatwa, defended the strict approach and said that transsexuals should use their "willpower" and adopt a traditional lifestyle. "Of course they won't get a job if they turn up wearing a woman's dress. All religions are opposed to this," he said. "You cannot be transsexual, you are either a woman or a man. Why do they want to go against Allah?" he asked. "If God has created you as a boy, then act like a boy."

http://www.smh.com.au/world/twilight-life-of-malaysias-muslim-transsexuals-20090906-fcl9.html

Quote:

"In Islam, there are only men and women, there are no transsexuals

So what is Mukhannath then? This article is false, and does not reflect upon Islam's supposed repression at all.

Islam recognises people, who were born with 'indeterminate sex', to be blameless for their condition. That however does not excuse any sins/crimes they undertake and blame on this condition, such as prostitution or lewdness or homosexual activities, any more than a person born with an overly angry temperament could blame assault or murder on his condition.

abu -
Quote:

......But in 1983 a "fatwa", or Islamic ruling, that prohibited gender-reassignment surgery as well as cross-dressing was imposed ......

according to abu islam has not existed for anywhere from 100 to 1000 years, muslims don't have a ratification of whatever it is, the laws come and go according to how extreme the protagainists are, yet for all this it is completely blameless for anything ever !!!!!!!
yet, abu does not condemn any muslims actions.
so, it is not any muslims fault, nor islams fault of any bad thing ever done anywhere.
just continue in your headbanging, sexist, arrogant fantasy abu.

the west knows what islam is, even if you dont.

"do what we say or we will publically whip, behead or lop off onr of your hands, do not question the koran, it is right because it says it is"
A dog leaves more humanity in tightly wound coils in the front yard than islam dreams of.

Quote:

according to abu islam has not existed for anywhere from 100 to 1000 years

You said Islam hadn't done anything for a few thousand years, I corrected you, since Islam has only been around for about 1400 years... how on earth you misconstrued that to mean "Islam has not existed for anywhere from 100 to 1000 years" is beyond me. Are you normal mate?


Quote:

......But in 1983 a "fatwa", or Islamic ruling, that prohibited gender-reassignment surgery as well as cross-dressing was imposed ......

That's right, "gender-reassignment surgery" is forbidden in Islam, as is cross dressing. That's got nothing to do with someone being born with indeterminate gender though. One is a biological fact of how the person is born, the other is actions that one chooses to carry out. They are completely seperate issues.

abu - and yo0u said islam started to leave their belief system about 1000 years ago.
so the last islamic state was anywhere up to 1000 years ago.

but your smoke and mirrors tricks will continue again and again.


the issues are not seperate. the issue is compassion, which islam has none.

Quote:

said islam started to leave their belief system about 1000 years ago.

I said no such thing.


Quote:

so the last islamic state was anywhere up to 1000 years ago.

This one I clearly stated, and even showed you a news clipping from the abolition of the last Islamic state, in 1924.

Sprint, you're off with the fairies mate, you don't seem to have the remotest clue about what you're babbling on about.

abu - you're right, sorry I misread it last time.

You will be separated from men in all public places including universities and transportation
You have to obey the Islamic dress code and you will be punished if you don’t
You have no right to travel without the permission of the male of the family
You have no right to divorce and if you get divorce you won’t have the custody of your children
You will face imprisonment, flogging and paying fine if you were arrested while walking with your boyfriend or wore make-up
You have no place to go and seek refuge if your husband abuses you, beats you up or rapes you
You have no right to work if your husband disagrees
You will be subjected to oppression and discrimination in all aspects of your life.
You will be stoned to death if you have sexual relation out of marriage.

laws from iran - an islamic state.


“Nothing is more harmful to men than women....” Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Num. 33.
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, “If a woman spends the night deserting her husband's bed (does not sleep with him), then the angels send their curses on her till she comes back (to her husband).” Sahih Bukhari Vol.7, Book 62, Num.122. Also Sahih Bukhari Vol. 4, Book 54, Num.460.
“Women, slaves and camels are same; must seek Allah's refuge from all these....” Sunaan Abu Dawud 11.2155.

“A man who restrains himself from committing an honor killing, leaving this unpleasant burden to the government, negates the values of virility advocated by Islam.” - “Islamic Action Front” party of Jordan

"A  victim of rape every minute somewhere in the world. Why? No one to blame but herself. She displayed  her beauty to the entire world. She degraded herself by being the object of sexual desire and thus becoming vulnerable to man who looks at her for  gratification of his sexual urge."   Sheik Faiz Mohamad, speech at Bankstown Town Hall, Sydney, Australia,  18th March 2005.  Source:  "Veiled threat an insult to all"  by Miranda Devine, The Sun Herald,  24th April 2005.


“Woman was made to bear and feed children. Therefore she is very emotional. And she is forgetful, because if she did not forget how it is to give birth she would not have another child. That is why she will not be as reliable a witness as a man.” - A quote by a Muslim woman, “The Age” “Life behind a veil of Islam” 3/3/1992 pg 11.

“A married woman should endure any violence or torture imposed on her by her husband for she is fully at his disposal. Without his permission she may not leave her house even for a good action (such as charitable work). Otherwise her prayers and devotions will not be accepted by God and curses of heaven and earth will fall upon her.” - Iranian religious leader Hojatoleslam Imani.

“We don’t make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians, innocents and non-innocents. Only between Muslims and unbelievers. And the life of an unbeliever has no value. It has no sanctity.” - Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad in an interview with Lisbon’s Publica magazine.

“A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However he should not penetrate, sodomising the child is OK. If the man penetrates and damages the child then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however does not count as one of his four permanents wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girl's sister....It is better for a girl to marry at such a time when she would begin menstruation at her husband's house, rather than her father's home. Any father marrying his daughter so young will have a permanent place in heaven.” - From Ayatollah Khomeini's book “Tahrirolvasyleh” Vol 4, Gom, Iran, 1990.

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SUDANESE woman journalist Lubna Ahmed al-Hussein was sent to jail after refusing to pay a 200-dollar fine imposed early today for wearing trousers deemed "indecent", one of her lawyers said. "She has been taken to the women's prison in Omdurman," the twin city of Khartoum, Kamal Omar told AFP. Earlier, a Khartoum court spared Hussein a whipping for wearing "indecent" trousers but instead fined her 500 Sudanese pounds (200 dollars). "I won't pay. I'd rather go to prison," Hussein told AFP by telephone before she was taken to jail, though her lawyers said they would try to persuade her to pay up. Speaking as they emerged from the court hearing which was barred to the press, witnesses said the court had ruled that Hussein be jailed for a month if she failed to pay the fine. Under Sudanese law, she could have been sentenced to a maximum of 40 lashes for "indecency" under Islamic principles after being arrested with 12 other women wearing trousers in a Khartoum restaurant in July. Women in trousers are not a rare sight in Sudan but the authorities can take offence at trousers which reveal too much of a woman's shape, leading to accusations from rights groups that judgement is arbitrary. Ten of the women arrested in July on the indecent dress charge, including Christians, were subsequently summoned by the police and each given 10 lashes. Hussein could have suffered a similar punishment, but instead the journalist challenged the charge and began a publicity campaign to try to have the law changed.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26041967-2703,00.html

this ones for you abu.


Quote:

An Afghan journalist imprisoned for 20 years for blasphemy for downloading an internet article about women's rights and Islam has been released, an international media rights group said on Monday. Sayed Perwiz Kambakhsh, 24, was freed early after President Hamid Karzai signed a pardon a few weeks ago, Reporters Without Borders (RSP - Reporters Sans Frontieres) said, citing the journalist's lawyer. "This case will be remembered as a miscarriage of justice marked by religious intolerance, police mistreatment and incompetence on the part of certain judges," said RSF secretary general Jean-Francois Julliard. Kabul must ensure that blasphemy, as defined in Afghanistan's Sharia-based constitution, "is no longer used to bring politically motivated charges and to suppress free expression", he added. Kambakhsh, a reporter for the Jahan-e-Naw (New World) newspaper, was arrested in October 2007, then sentenced to die by a tribunal in Mazar-i-Sharif in January 2008 for downloading from an Iranian website an analysis of what the Koran says about women, RSF said. That sentence was changed to 20 years' imprisonment by an appeals court in the Afghan capital Kabul in October 2008 - a sentence upheld by the supreme court in March this year.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/afghan-journalist-jailed-for-downloading-womens-rights-article-pardoned-20090908-fen2.html


this is your belief system abu. tell us all about it.

I wander why UN human rights body doesn't ban women treatment by this religion?

This is not fit for 21st century!

the human rights commission won't, they are run by muslims.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 8^th, 2009 at 10:58am:

Ten of the women arrested in July on the indecent dress charge, including Christians, were subsequently summoned by the police and each given 10 lashes. Hussein could have suffered a similar punishment, but instead the journalist challenged the charge and began a publicity campaign to try to have the law changed.

Exactly.

It is a tenet within ISLAM that 'Silence is consent'.

And a very real reason why we in the West, all need to grow a pair, just like this Sudanese woman journalist.


Part 123 - Silence is Consent
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g15Wk-1zNg




Moslems do not respect us, non-moslems, for being tolerant, or 'accommodating' of ever more [and YES!, there will be!] moslem demands.

Moslems only see our acquiescence to their demands, as our weakness, and as PROOF of cultural inferiority.

Moslems do not respect righteousness, or justice, or truth.

Moslems have respect for themselves, and for their own culture, alone.

ISLAM / moslems believe, exclusively, in their own superiority, and believe in the 'necessary' subjugation [enslavement] of all other un-ISLAMIC peoples.




Our own freedoms are not, and were never, 'free',
.....our forefathers purchased our freedoms at the cost of their blood.

The freedoms which we enjoy today, were gifted to us, by previous generations.

I we are not prepared to defend those freedoms,
.....then this generation is declaring that we do not deserve them.

If we non-moslems are not prepared to die, to defend our freedoms, from ISLAM,
.....we will most certainly die as the slaves of ISLAM / moslems.

That is the message that we must convey to others.





+++++++





Human history tells us about the nature of 'real politique'.....

"Right is only in question between equals, and while the strong do what they can, the weak suffer what they must."
Thucydides (460-400 B.C.) Greek Historian





Among a people generally corrupt, liberty cannot long exist.
Edmund Burke




I can understand a child being afraid of the dark, but I cannot understand an adult being afraid of the light.
Plato

Quote:

London, Sep. 4 : British hate preacher Anjem Choudary has controversially demanded capital punishment for Koran-bashing author Sebastian Faulks if he is found guilty under sharia law. “Mr Faulks was extremely naïve for what he said and it could have some grave consequence for him. Someone like this needs to be assessed in an Islamic court of law and if he’s found guilty then there would be capital punishment,” the Daily Express quoted him, as saying. “Just as we chopping the hand off a thief and stoning the adulterer, we have for the one who insults the Prophet the death penalty,” he added. Last week, Faulks had attracted Muslim community’s wrath by describing Koran as “the rantings of a schizophrenic” and “very disappointing from a literary point of view”. Faulks, the author of James Bond novel Devil May Care, had said that the words of Prophet Mohammed were "one-dimensional", and had criticised the Koran for not telling stories, like the Old Testament. Although Faulks has apologised for calling Koran the “rantings of a schizophrenic,” Islam4UK a radical group associated with Choudary posted an article on its website entitled, “Sebastian Faulks on a Death Wish?” “May Allah punish the oppressors and deal with the slanderers,” it added. Alexander Meleagrou-Hitchens, of the Centre for Social Cohesion, said: “Choudary and his followers are seeking to impose their will on the population of this country through subversion and incitement to violence. “The weakness of Choudary’s fascist ideology could not be better illustrated than by his inability to provide an intellectual response to criticism, instead resorting to veiled threats and intimidation.” However, Faulks declined to comment. His spokeswoman said: “He apologises if his comments about the Koran have offended Muslims.” (ANI)

http://www.topnews.in/uk-hate-preacher-demands-koranbashing-author-s-trial-under-sharia-court-2210650


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Turkey has decided to not sign a European Union declaration in support of a jailed Kazakh reporter that stated journalists serve the development of democracy, the rule of law, human rights and fundamental freedoms. The Sept. 4 declaration was in support of Ramazan Yesergepov, the editor of the weekly Alma-Ata Info, who was arrested in January and received three years in prison on charges of disclosing state secrets. The EU released a statement explaining the service free media provides for a country. The statement was released by Sweden, the term president of the union, and signed by all members; candidate countries Croatia and Macedonia; potential future members Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Montenegro; and Iceland and Norway. Among European countries, only Turkey failed to sign the declaration. “Journalists should not be subject to the same obligations with regard to nondisclosure of official government information that might be imposed on public servants and state officials, but should be free to report on all issues of interest to the public, including commentary on how the state is run,” the statement said. The union also called on Kazakh authorities to release Yesergepov pending a full review of his case and to permit him to restart publication of Alma-Ata Info. The declaration also criticized the fact that Yesergepov’s trial was held mostly behind closed doors with no public scrutiny. Turkey’s attitude toward an EU statement released against Uzbekistan’s limitations imposed on the media was the same. The EU accused Uzbek authorities of trying to silence the media through intimidation and criminal proceedings. Turkey, which refused to back these two statements, supported the union when it condemned Russia for violence perpetrated against journalists.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=turkey-fails-to-support-media-freedom-2009-09-07

comments please abu ?
Is this just other threats of violence from other muslims to stop any criticism ?
it is not  a religion of peace.
mohammad was not peaceful, islams history is not peaceful, mohammads directions are to kill.

no comments abu ??


Quote:

A Jordanian youth has been charged with premeditated murder  after allegedly stabbing to death his divorced teenage sister because she "knew many men", police said. The suspect, 18, "stabbed to death his 17-year-old divorced sister with a kitchen knife because he claimed she beat their mother and that she was mean and knew many men", a police spokesman told AFP. "Police arrested him and he confessed to the crime," in the Red Sea port city of Aqaba. Murder is punishable by the death penalty in Jordan, but in the case of so-called "honour killings", a court usually commutes or reduces sentences, particularly if the victim's family urges leniency. On Tuesday, US-based Human Rights Watch (HRW) urged Jordan to reform its penal code, which it says condones the murder of women as "honour crimes". In the past, parliament has refused to institute harsher penalties. Around 15-20 women are murdered each year in Jordan in the name of honour, despite government efforts to fight such crimes. So far this year, there have been 15 reported. In August, a man was charged with shooting dead his pregnant sister for marrying without family permission, after luring her to another brother's wedding in a conspiracy with him. In another incident, a 41-year-old man was accused of murdering his 16-year-old niece to "cleanse" the family's honour after she was raped. And in July, a 20-year-old man stabbed his married sister and smashed her head with a rock after accusing her of "immoral behaviour".

http://www.smh.com.au/world/honour-killing-brother-on-murder-charge-20090910-fhva.html


how does murdering your sister who was a rape victim make your family more "honourable " ??

would you clarify this please abu ?

Quote:

how does murdering your sister who was a rape victim make your family more "honourable " ?? would you clarify this please abu ?

I've clarified my position on these honour murders enough times now sprint. Anyone who still hasn't got it, isn't going to.

Abu - what did you say about honor killings?

let me guess - "that's not islam"
hey - it's only muslims that do it.
it is sanctioned in islamic countries.

your deception about it holds no basis.

Quote:

Abu - what did you say about honor killings?

You were involved in some of the threads, so I'd think you know.


Quote:

hey - it's only muslims that do it.

Even if this blatant lie were the case, it would be irrelevant. What I believe is what I believe. You are free to judge me upon what I believe, not what others supposedly believe.

If you bothered to read the threads about honour murders properly, you'd see I brought numerous examples of Christians, Hindus, Sikhs etc. all committing honour murders. And several Christian countries in which such crimes are treated with diminished responsibility.


Quote:

it is sanctioned in islamic countries.

They are sanctioned in countries with Muslim majority, and as stated above in countries with Christian majority. Does Christianity therefore sanction it?


Quote:

your deception about it holds no basis.

Deceiving you would be impossible, since you are self-deceived already. Nobody can tell you anything, since your mind is already closed to what you consider the situation to be.

Discussing with you is futile sprint, you have no intellect to be swayed or reasoned with.

on and on they go.


Quote:

RIOT police have arrested 10 people outside a London mosque after clashes broke out between Muslims and anti-Islamic protesters on the anniversary of the September 11 attacks. About 1,000 mostly Muslim protesters, many with masks over their faces, were involved in running scuffles around the mosque in Harrow, northwest London, following a demonstration by a small anti-Islamic group. "Items including bricks and bottles have been thrown at officers," said a spokesman for London's Metropolitan Police amid a tense stand-off as the sun set over Harrow Central Mosque. One person was arrested to prevent a breach of the peace, and nine others for possession of offensive weapons including bottles of bleach, a hammer and a chisel, he added. Police moved in after a crowd of angry Muslim youths, some wearing masks over their faces, threw sticks and stones at a small group of about a dozen mostly shaven-headed protesters. "This is England, I should be able to demonstrate," said one of the anti-Islamic protesters. "I have got two sons in the army. They are out in Afghanistan fighting, but the police doesn't (sic) want to defend us here today," said the man in his late 40s, who declined to give his name. In a tense atmosphere after initial clashes subsided, police surrounded the white demonstrators, to shield them from the angry Muslims some 500m from the mosque. The demonstration was organised by Stop Islamification of Europe, which said ahead of the demo that it planned to remain peaceful. Stephen Gash of the SIOE - whose motto is "Racism is the lowest form of human stupidity, but Islamophobia is the height of common sense" - said before the demo: "We don't want any more mosques until all this hatred is sorted out." But the violence erupted when they were confronted by hundreds of protesters who the police said were either members of a group called United Against Fascism, or Muslims providing support to the mosque. At one point hundreds of Muslim protesters surged towards a man who they believed was a member of the anti-Islam protest, as he ran in the direction of police lines. It appeared that the man was struck several times before police pushed the Muslim protesters back. Khairul Khan, 34, said Muslims were not being aggressive. "We are just defending our own mosque. We are doing nothing wrong, we are just trying to stop them attacking the house of our God," he said. Muslim protester Abdullah Al-Andalusi, 30, said: "Anyone should be allowed to demonstrate all they want, but if you are inciting hatred against any human being, then you should not be allowed to do that. "And under English law you can't do that." Concerns about violence have been heightened by clashes last weekend at a rally against Islamic fundamentalism held by a right-wing group, the English Defence League. More than 30 people were arrested in Birmingham, Britain's second city, when the demonstrators fought with anti-fascist campaigners.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26062685-2703,00.html


hahahaha - show me the christian society where a rape victim gets murdered by her familly to save their arrogance .
or, show me the quote from the NT that supports it.

member the story when jesus saves the woman who was to be stoned for adultery?
"let he who has not sinned cast the first stone."
That's christianity.

you level of personal abuse is waning, come on abu, pray a bit harder for the right tirade to hurl

Did you watch the video of it?? Those Nazi scumbags scampering off with their tails between their legs, beautiful.

we have seen "the religion of peace" at work before.
I have seem muslims giving prayers up for terrorists.


Quote:

........Police moved in after a crowd of angry Muslim youths, some wearing masks over their faces, threw sticks and stones at a small group of about a dozen.......... ......... But the violence erupted when they were confronted by hundreds of protesters who the police said were either members of a group called United Against Fascism, or Muslims providing support to the mosque....... ...........At one point hundreds of Muslim protesters surged towards a man .......

very muslim, once they have the advantage of numbers, it is NOT peaceful.

Honour killings:
Abu is right, it is not a Islamic disease. It's a backward practice that is practiced in ALL communities in the middle east and Africa. Christian communities, Muslim communities, Jewish communities, Hindu communities, Sikh communities, tribal communities, pagan communities...you name it. The fact that most people are only aware of it happening in Muslim communities reflects the population makeup of the middle east and Afria as well as our mainstream media's love of portraying Islam negatively. It does NOT reflect the teachings of Islam. On another note, did you know that Islam began as a proto-feminist movement? The Prophet (PBUH) gave women in Arabia rights that they were not granted in the Christian world until around the 19th century. Unfortunately, many Muslim men have chosen to ignore the teachings of their religion. Also note that while gender inequality and paternalism in CHristian communities was the result of men wanting to "protect" women and "protect themselves", in Muslim communities today it is due to a "fear" of what women are capable of. It's a cultural difference.
The practice has its roots way before the advent of Islam and the Prophet (PBUH) actually campaigned to rid Arabia of it. You mention that Jesus (AS) stopped a woman from being stoned--there are multiple accounts of the Prophet (PBUH) doing that.  
I'll quote the Quran.
"And those who accuse their wives and have no witnesses except themselves, let one of them testify four times, bearing Allah to witness, that he speaks the truth. And the fifth (time) that the curse of Allah be on him, if he is lying. And it shall avert the punishment from her, if she testify four times, bearing Allah to witness, that he is lying. And the fifth (time) that the wrath of Allah be on her, if he speaks the truth." -24:6-9

As can be seen, this passage places the man and wife on terms of complete equality. The sworn denial of the wife is exactly equal to the sworn accusation of the husband. After the fifth swearing, which is that of invoking Allah's curse on one's own self in case of being the liar, the woman is free of the accusation and no one can punish her.

blutigeroo - feel free to start a thread on the sexism of the koran and islam.
it is better to keep topics contained.
oh - abu has banned me from the islam thread, so if you want me to participate, might have to start it elsewhere.
Not in the spiritual forum.

take care

Quote:

very muslim, once they have the advantage of numbers, it is NOT peaceful.

The Nazi fools came and protested outside a mosque, pretty stupid if you ask me.

Why am I not surprised you're standing on the same side of the fence as Nazis sprint??

Following in the footsteps of old Martin Luther eh??

why is it stupid to protest outside a mosque?

Would the peaceful muslims within swarm out and murder them?

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 13^th, 2009 at 8:54pm:

blutigeroo - feel free to start a thread on the sexism of the koran and islam. it is better to keep topics contained. oh - abu has banned me from the islam thread, so if you want me to participate, might have to start it elsewhere. Not in the spiritual forum. take care

There is no need for a thread on sexism in the Koran because anyone who has read AND understood it knows there is none. (read and understood as opposed to just read without understanding to context of each and every verse). Period.
But, does your silence on my reply to the honour killings mean that you have accepted that I am right about honour killings being a backwards cultural practice rather than a religous practice?

Again, feel free to start a thread on honour killikngs.
It really is better to keep topics contained, can't find a thing otherwise.

by the way, how many husbands is a muslim woman "allowed" ?
4 ?
or 11 or so like mohammad had ?

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 13^th, 2009 at 7:11pm:

Did you watch the video of it?? Those Nazi scumbags scampering off with their tails between their legs, beautiful.

Yes 1000s of Muslims and their leftist supporters could attack 30 or so protestors. Islamic bravery at its finest.

I'm glad you feel it's ok to beat up protesters you disagree with. I'm sure you wouldn't mind then if the next pro-Hamas rally gets a beat down.

Funny Calanen, cos a few months ago when the shoe was on the exact opposite foot, and a small group of Muslims protested at a troop homecoming, bit off more than they could chew, and ended up in the exact same postion as your Nazi comrades, you thought it was quite a dose of poetic justice... At least I am objective enogh to see the similarities between these two situations... you apparently are not.

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At least I am objective enogh to see the similarities between these two situations... you apparently are not.

You couldn't learn what 'objective' meant if you stopped headbutting the carpet for Allan long enough to have it tattooed on your forehead.

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MUSLIMS who commit adultery in Indonesia's semi-autonomous province of Aceh could be stoned to death after the provincial parliament last night passed laws expanding Islamic law. The new laws, which also include multiple lashings in public for those caught having pre-marital sex, were opposed by women's groups and the province's governor, and were rammed through just weeks before a new, far more moderate parliament was to be convened. The laws also include new punishments for consuming alcohol, rape, pedophilia and homosexuality, although none are as tough as the gruesome death penalty for adulterers. Bustanul Arifin, a lawmaker from the Islamist Prosperous Justice Party who sits on the committee that oversaw the bill, said some local members of President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono's Democrat Party disagreed with measures such as the stoning to death, and wanted to reduce the number of lashes, which can be up to 100 for some offences. ''But it was not possible because we based the law on the Koran and the hadith. You cannot decrease it,'' Mr Arifin told the Herald. The hadith are oral accounts of the prophet Muhammad's life and times in Saudi Arabia in the 7th century. Despite the passage of the laws, their future remains uncertain. Mr Arifin said they could be redrafted over the next three days before being handed to the Governor, Irwandi Yusuf. Also, Indonesia's home affairs minister and the national parliament could overturn them, if they judge they contravene national laws and Indonesia's commitment to various international legal conventions. Aceh, Indonesia's most devoutly Islamic area, has had a form of sharia, or Islamic law, since 2002. It mandated women to wear headscarves, and public canings for those caught gambling. A sharia police force has been created but many of the provisions of the law have not been enforced due to widespread resentment among citizens. Elections earlier this year saw Islamic hardliners perform poorly while the secular Partai Aceh, made up of former independence fighters, did well. But the Partai Aceh-dominated parliament will not convene until next month.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/stoning-penalty-for-aceh-adultery-20090915-fo0d.html

these islamics sicken me.
they are voted out, but STILL shove their disgusting ancient violent horrid ways down peoples throats.

also note - murder is based on the koran and hadiths accordiing to these muslims.
unlike we are told by muslims here.
who is wrong, who is lying ?

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these islamics sicken me. they are voted out, but STILL shove their disgusting ancient violent horrid ways down peoples throats.

Well if they were voted in... and it's still their time... then what's the problem? Any government is within it's rights to keep governing until it leaves office is it not??


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also note - murder is based on the koran and hadiths accordiing to these muslims.

I think you really need to learn the difference between murder and capital punishment.

Is it murder in the U.S when they execute a criminal??


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who is wrong, who is lying ?

Nobody is wrong or lying, you're just a bit too simple to understand the concept of capital punishment. You might not agree with it, that's fine, but it's recognised throughout the world as being something different to murder. And I haven't seen you once criticise the U.S for using the death penalty, which tends to indicate you're not really that opposed to it.

no, when a new govt is in the wings, the old outgoing govt makes no changes.
it's called a caretaker govt.
to bring in last minuite changes is arrogant, rude, unethical and against the peoples wishes.

i am against capital punishment. it is ineffective, cruel  and unjust.
I am strongly against mixing religion with politics/legal service.
that's alweays repressive , often backward and cruel

you may not realise this, but normal people are disgusted when they learn islam advocates murdering those who leave the oppressive regime
call it what you want, it's repulsive

lovely circular closed loop logic islamics have displayed here.
if you disagree with tyem, it is blasphemy and you die.

and according to abu, that's fine, he's all in favour of it.
"String 'em high" - is that your motto abu ?



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Afghanistan's upper house of parliament has condemned the presidential pardon of a journalist sentenced to 20 years in prison for downloading an internet article about women's rights and Islam. Sayed Perwiz Kambakhsh, 24, was initially sentenced to death for blasphemy two years ago, but an appeals court later commuted the sentence to 20 years. The case caused worldwide outrage and Kambakhsh was freed earlier this month after being pardoned by President Hamid Karzai, who is seeking re-election. The upper house "expresses its strongest concerns and annoyance and considers this decision contrary to the Islamic values and the laws in place in the country", said the statement signed by the speaker of the upper house on Monday. It called on Kambakhsh to serve his term, and said that those convicted of apostasy and hatred of Islam must be punished. The house "emphatically advises responsible authorities and the presidency" not to carry out such pardons, the statement said. The upper house contains a contingent of religious hardliners. Under Islamic law, which is the basis of Afghan's constitution, blasphemy is punishable by death. Media watchdog Reporters Without Borders (RSF) said last week the case would be remembered as "a miscarriage of justice marked by religious intolerance, police mistreatment and incompetence on the part of certain judges". Kabul must ensure that blasphemy "is no longer used to bring politically motivated charges and to suppress free expression," it added. Kambakhsh, a reporter for the Jahan-e-Naw (New World) newspaper, was arrested in October 2007 for downloading from an Iranian website an analysis of what the Koran says about women, RSF has said. The sentence of 20 years' imprisonment by an appeals court in the Afghan capital Kabul last October was upheld by the supreme court in March.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/afghan-parliament-condemns-journalist-pardon-20090915-fo3j.html

an infidels lot in a muslim country ........


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If the infidels live among the Muslims, in accordance with the conditions set out by the Prophet -there is nothing wrong with it provided they pay Jizya[10] to the Islamic treasury. Other conditions are. that they do not renovate a church or a monastery, do not rebuild ones that were destroyed, that they feed for three days any Muslim who passes by their homes. that they rise when a Muslim wishes to sit, that they do not imitate Muslims in dress and speech, nor ride horses, nor own swords, nor arm themselves with any kind of weapon; that they do not sell wine, do not show the cross, do not ring church bells, do not raise their voices during prayer, that they shave their hair in front so as to make them easily identifiable, do not incite anyone against the Muslims, and do not strike a Muslim. If they violate these conditions, they have no protection. [11]

http://www.teachkidspeace.org/doc3513.php

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that they rise when a Muslim wishes to sit

Isn't that what the magistrate is trying to enforce for Muslims at present in that Melbourne court case??


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that they do not imitate Muslims in dress and speech

That's quite clearly talking about spying. non-Muslims are not permitted to pretend to be Muslims.


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nor ride horses, nor own swords, nor arm themselves with any kind of weapon

Can Muslims drive tanks and own RPG's in Australia? No. These are the vehicles and weaponry of today, as those were of previous times.

Besides, Christians were never prohibited from riding horses, the context is quite clearly to a military usage.


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that they do not sell wine

Are Muslims allowed to sell Qat in Australia???


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do not show the cross

Hijab bans..


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do not ring church bells

Likewise Muslims cannot make public calls to prayer over their loudpseakers or from on top of their minarets...


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do not incite anyone against the Muslims

Sedition laws...


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and do not strike a Muslim

Isn't assault illegal in all countries??  ;D

abu, as usual , selective and deceptive.
it's rather disappointing really

these are repressive discriminatory laws against nonmuslims (infidels).
there are no laws elsewhere in the world against muslims based on your beliefs.

just to take your selected first two denials :
a judge has authority.
not imitating muslims in dress makes infidels stand out, so a muslim can leech at his house to be fed to 3 days.

if a muslim kills an infidel, he gets fined and jailed for one year at max.
if an infidel kills a muslim, he gets stoned.
the laws are disgusting, the belief likewise.

the whole west should be honestly told of islams duplicity, biased and deceipt.

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if a muslim kills an infidel, he gets fined and jailed for one year at max. if an infidel kills a muslim, he gets stoned.

I think you're confused with Judaism mate. Jews do have laws like this, Islam certainly does not.

Perhaps you've been reading the Talmud by mistake?? Or even the Bible??

If that's the jewish laws I hold them in the same regard.

unfortunately due to your extended biased selective answering, deflections and deception I don't trust much you say.

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If that's the jewish laws I hold them in the same regard.

Yeh right.. I'm sure you do..

Only problem is that being a Jew-hater isn't in vogue anymore (about 80 years too late), so you'll just have to be content being a Muslim-hater.


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unfortunately due to your extended biased selective answering, deflections and deception I don't trust much you say.

How convenient.

i'm not a muslim hater, nor a jew hater.
I have agreed with and applauded the actions of some muslims
I have condemned actions of some jews.

islamic laws suck big time.
you work it out