This Christian priest reads Quran entire Ramadan

Saturday, September 12, 2009 04:30:26 PM, IANS

 Thiruvananthapuram: For 65-year-old priest G.S. Francis, the Holy Quran is as dear as the Holy Bible.

Church of South Indian (CSI) parish vicar Francis has been reading the Quran for an hour everyday during the fasting month of Ramzan for the past two decades.

"The Old Testament and the Quran are almost similar and I do read it every day for an hour during the month of Ramzan. In fact in the course of theology, the holy books of other religions like the Ramayana and Quran are taught," he said.

"I learned theology at a seminary by attending a part-time course. It was in 1989 that I was ordained as a priest. The state government allowed me to don the cassock because I agreed to do the priestly duties as an honorary service," he added.

Francis retired from the state government as deputy development commissioner in rural department a decade back and has been a priest in the church since then. The church is located at Thalassery in Kannur district.

He said during the month of Ramzan he fasts when he has no other duties to perform.

"It has become a practice for me ever since I became a priest to refer to religious books like Quran and Ramayana. This helps me to understand other religions. This reading helps me when I deliver messages in the church. One gets knowledge for preaching when one studies other religions because a comparative study is required and I am happy doing this," Francis said.

Source: Ummid

We need more people like that who try to understand people of different cultures.

muso wrote on Sep 15^th, 2009 at 8:25am:

We need more people like that who try to understand people of different cultures.

When it comes to different cultures,

We need more 'go along' people, especially many more 'go along' Christians?

We need more people who are, NOT prepared to think critically of other cultures?

But are rather 'accepting' of all things?




muso,

I'm sure ppl like abu would heartily agree with you.



I have made an examination of a few Koran verses myself, here,

CRIMINAL INTENT, IN THE MOSLEM HEART
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1252898491/2#2



I particularly find that many, many, Koran verses are themselves so encouraging of moslem 'tolerance' of other faiths, of course.
/sarc off



The KORAN...

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/005.qmt.html#005.051




muso,

If you are so enamoured of tolerance [a tolerance without question], why don't you, yourself, make the supreme expression of tolerance, and convert, to ISLAM ???

Just to prove, how uncritically tolerant you are,    ....of everything.
/sarc off

I am sure that abu would welcome one, such as yourself.


Dictionary,
enamour = = be filled with love or admiration for.i



Romans 12:9
Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.


Hmmmm, dissimulation???

I wonder what THAT word means muso?

Ask abu, he'll tell you.

Quote:

We need more 'go along' people, especially many more 'go along' Christians?

Perhaps not, but one thing's for sure, we need less of the hate-filled loons..


Quote:

We need more people who are, NOT prepared to think critically of other cultures?

If by "NOT prepared to think critically" you actually mean "prepared to read and understand in context", then yes.


Quote:

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends.... ......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."

This one's been done to death, and has been clearly proven in the Islamic forum to be a mistranslation. There are a multitude of words in Arabic for "friends", yet none of them appear in this verse you just quoted.


Quote:

If you are so enamoured of tolerance [a tolerance without question], why don't you, yourself, make the supreme expression of tolerance, and convert, to ISLAM ???

Yeh because not ranting about a religion in the manner of a lunatic means you should convert...

Only you could see the world like this Yadda.

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 15^th, 2009 at 10:13am:

Quote: We need more 'go along' people, especially many more 'go along' Christians? Perhaps not, but one thing's for sure, we need less of the hate-filled loons.. [quote] We need more people who are, NOT prepared to think critically of other cultures?

If by "NOT prepared to think critically" you actually mean "prepared to read and understand in context", then yes.


Quote:

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends.... ......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."

This one's been done to death, and has been clearly proven in the Islamic forum to be a mistranslation. There are a multitude of words in Arabic for "friends", yet none of them appear in this verse you just quoted.


[/quote]


abu,

I just don't understand the moslem mind, do i?
/sarc off


The HADITH....

"On his death-bed Allah's Apostle....said, "May Allah's Curse be on the Jews and the Christians....."
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/056.sbt.html#004.056.660







Quote:

[quote]If you are so enamoured of tolerance [a tolerance without question], why don't you, yourself, make the supreme expression of tolerance, and convert, to ISLAM ???

Yeh because not ranting about a religion in the manner of a lunatic means you should convert...

[/quote]





"Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil."
Thomas Mann
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Thomas_Mann







Quote:

Only you could see the world like this Yadda.

abu,

I'm not alone.

In the minority?

Yes.

But not alone.

Quote:

"On his death-bed Allah's Apostle....said, "May Allah's Curse be on the Jews and the Christians....."

He's quite within his rights to bless and curse whoever he likes.

As are you.

Do you think blessing and cursing should be restricted??

The Bible actually describes women as a curse... I'd be more worried cursing half of humanity, than just one or two religions.


Quote:

"Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." Thomas Mann

I've got no problem with this quote, just your definition of evil, that's all.


Quote:

I'm not alone. In the minority? Yes. But not alone.

True...


Quote:

Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) figures show that every year one in five Australians will experience some form of mental illness

Yadda wrote on Sep 15^th, 2009 at 9:42am:

I have made an examination of a few Koran verses myself, here,

Yadda, With respect, you are an atheist in reference to the Muslim Allah. You simply lack the qualifications to interpret the words of another faith.

As an 'atheist' of the Christian faith, I've made the mistake of trying to interpret what to me were violent and uncivilised texts. (It's very tempting to do so when I see so much hypocrisy and religious arrogance and bigotry.) In most cases I accepted your interpretation from a Christian viewpoint and gave you the benefit of the doubt.

Take it from me - trying to interpret the Qu'ran as a Christian you look just as silly as I did.

By acting like that publically, you don't buy your faith any brownie points. You reinforce the view held by some militant atheists that Christians are narrow minded bigots. Of course that may not be of any concern to you.

Mate - Do yourself a favour.

Here are a couple of Bible verses for you to study:

Matthew 5:44
Luke 10: 25-37 (for Samaritan, try substituting Muslim)

muso wrote on Sep 15^th, 2009 at 12:08pm:

Yadda wrote on Sep 15th, 2009 at 9:42am: I have made an examination of a few Koran verses myself, here, Yadda, With respect, you are an atheist in reference to the Muslim Allah. You simply lack the qualifications to interpret the words of another faith. As an 'atheist' of the Christian faith, I've made the mistake of trying to interpret what to me were violent and uncivilised texts. (It's very tempting to do so when I see so much hypocrisy and religious arrogance and bigotry.) In most cases I accepted your interpretation from a Christian viewpoint and gave you the benefit of the doubt. Take it from me - trying to interpret the Qu'ran as a Christian you look just as silly as I did.

Not at all.



muso,

I am not writing a 'doctorate', or a 'thesis', i am not even an 'educated' person.

But i can read and write, AND I KNOW WHICH WAY IS UP.

I am expressing *my own* understanding of what Sharia / ISLAM is.
...and atm, i have every right to do that,   .....in Australia.

Others will judge me, by what i say, in this forum, i am happy to allow others to do that.
.....and to rebuke my errors [in the forum], where they perceive them.


Conversely, in a moslem country, the 'authorities' would just straight out, determine who i was, and where i was located, and then, most likely, devout moslems would imprison/murder me for 'insulting' ISLAM.

And muso, that action would be 'accomplished' by a philosophy which you, are, or seem to be, tolerant of.

Tolerance, is good?

In all circumstances?

Not so [imo].i
Quote:

By acting like that publically, you don't buy your faith any brownie points. You reinforce the view held by some militant atheists that Christians are narrow minded bigots. Of course that may not be of any concern to you. Mate - Do yourself a favour. Here are a couple of Bible verses for you to study: Matthew 5:44 Luke 10: 25-37 (for Samaritan, try substituting Muslim)

Luke 10:25
And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26  He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27  And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28  And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
29  But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
30  And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31  And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32  And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
33  But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
34  And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35  And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
36  Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
37  And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.



muso,

#1
Are you cognisant of all of the food aid and money aid, which travels from Western countries to moslems countries?

Huge amounts of aid are given, by the West, to the needy, in moslem countries.

Further, are you aware that Jihadists are altogether un-grateful for this aid?

In fact moslems tell their own communities, that this aid from the non-moslems, from the West, is a tax [jizya] upon 'unbelievers', imposed by their god, Allah - SO THEY DON'T NEED TO BE GRATEFUL, EXCEPT TO ALLAH.


#2
Are you aware that moslems are prohibited [by ISLAM] from assisting non-moslems in need?

Moslem charities are prohibited from collecting aid for non-moslems.

'Unbelievers' are declared to be, the enemies of Allah.

And moslems are PROHIBITED, from helping 'unbelievers', because they are, the enemies of Allah!!

This position [not to aid 'unbelievers'] is [also] announced within moslem religious texts.




"Muslims are not commanded to assist non-Muslims.  To do so is a waste of money, because they are going to Hell anyway.  The Qur'an and Hadith command that money flow either between Muslims or from non-Muslims to Muslims..."
Charity and Disaster Relief
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/027-disaster-relief.htm


Google,
muslim zakat prohibited helping non-believers
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=muslim+zakat+prohibited+helping+non-believers&btnG=Search&meta=


Google,
saudi tsunami disaster donations
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=saudi+tsunami+disaster+donations&btnG=Search&meta=



p.s.

muso,

I'm glad that you have pointed out, and challenged, my failings as a Christian,
...and i hope to improve myself.

Moslem,


Charity and Disaster Relief
Additional Notes:

It is common for Western multiculturalists to project their own values onto others.  If Western religion instills virtues such as giving and universal charity, then surely Islam must do the same... shouldn't it?

Not really.

Charity is technically an important part of Islam, but this does not mean that the word is defined in the same way in which Westerners usually understand it.  In Christianity, for example, charity means giving to your fellow man in need.  In Islam, it distinctly means giving to your fellow Muslim - and generally only through the mandated poor tax (zakat) which is explicitly calculated.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/027-disaster-relief.htm

Yadda wrote on Sep 15^th, 2009 at 2:52pm:

Moslem, Charity and Disaster Relief Additional Notes: It is common for Western multiculturalists to project their own values onto others.  If Western religion instills virtues such as giving and universal charity, then surely Islam must do the same... shouldn't it? Not really. Charity is technically an important part of Islam, but this does not mean that the word is defined in the same way in which Westerners usually understand it.  In Christianity, for example, charity means giving to your fellow man in need.  In Islam, it distinctly means giving to your fellow Muslim - and generally only through the mandated poor tax (zakat) which is explicitly calculated. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/027-disaster-relief.htm

Just adding to that:
Zakat is the only compulsory form of charity in Islam. The other can be distributed amongst non-Muslims and it is called "Sadaqat" (sp.). Sadaqat's scope is so vast that it does not have to be given in the form of money to charities etc (Western idea of "charity". Sadaqa can be in the shape of a smile or a glass of water to a thirsty person,  or they may even just utter a kindly word. Planting something from which a person, bird or animal later eats also counts as sadaqa. In this extended sense, acts of loving kindness, even greeting another with a cheerful face, is regarded as sadaqa. In short, every good deed is sadaqa and the amount of reward Allah gives in proportional to the size of the deed.

Quote:

Huge amounts of aid are given, by the West, to the needy, in moslem countries.

Yeh right... like Egypt right?? The largest recipient of U.S aid (after Israel of course), and not a single cent of it makes it's way into the bellies of the poor starving Egyptians. It's all used for the American lackey to fund his little personal protection army that keeps him in power (and U.S interests in the region satisfied).

You are deluded Yadda, you live in a fantasy world that's completely detached from the reality the rest of the humans live in.


Quote:

In fact moslems tell their own communities, that this aid from the non-moslems, from the West, is a tax [jizya] upon 'unbelievers', imposed by their god, Allah - SO THEY DON'T NEED TO BE GRATEFUL, EXCEPT TO ALLAH

This is what the West's allies, eg. Saudi Arabia tell to their people to prevent them revolting and casting their filthy presence out of the holy peninsula. I'm quite sure Abdullah (a very close friend of the White house) has full permission from his masters to use such 'similitudes' to dupe his people.


Quote:

Are you aware that moslems are prohibited [by ISLAM] from assisting non-moslems in need? Moslem charities are prohibited from collecting aid for non-moslems.

This is just absolute nonsense. However, the preference is definitely to give it to fellow Muslims, likewise there's a preference to give it to those in your own community, and even more precisely those in your own family. I'm sorry Yadda but I'm struggling to see what the problem with that is? Would you go and give charity to a complete stranger whilst your own family members starve?? Do you think that's a just way to give charity?? Don't you think certain people have more right over your charity than others?

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 16^th, 2009 at 9:22am:

Quote: Are you aware that moslems are prohibited [by ISLAM] from assisting non-moslems in need? Moslem charities are prohibited from collecting aid for non-moslems. This is just absolute nonsense. However, the preference is definitely to give it to fellow Muslims, likewise there's a preference to give it to those in your own community, and even more precisely those in your own family. I'm sorry Yadda but I'm struggling to see what the problem with that is? Would you go and give charity to a complete stranger whilst your own family members starve?? Do you think that's a just way to give charity?? Don't you think certain people have more right over your charity than others?

abu,

The REAL question which moslems ask themselves is,

'Should i give charity to an enemy of Allah / ISLAM???
....A.  No!!!'

Many moslems living in the West, are not starving, but their 'faith' prohibits them from giving to needy ['starving'] 'unbelievers'.

TRUTH.





abu,

The Saudis are not 'starving', yet they never give aid to needy ['starving'] 'unbelievers'.

Their 'faith', ISLAM, teaches them to rather HATE 'unbelievers'.

HATRED of 'unbelievers' is taught, today, in Saudi schools, to moslem children.

Moslem children are taught that it is the obligation of good moslems to,
1/ love Allah,
2/ love moslems,
3/ and to HATE unbelievers.



Details of 'lessons' found within Saudi school texts,


Quote:

Q. "Is belief true in the following instances: ....(a) A man prays but hates those who are virtuous. ....(b) A man professes that there is no deity other than God but loves the unbelievers. ....(c) A man worships God alone, loves the believers, AND HATES THE UNBELIEVERS." The correct answer, of course, is (c): According to the Wahhabi imams who wrote this textbook, IT ISN'T ENOUGH TO SIMPLY WORSHIP GOD or just to love other believers; IT IS IMPORTANT TO HATE UNBELIEVERS, too. By the same token, (b) is wrong as well: Even a man who worships God cannot be said to have "true belief" if he also loves unbelievers. According to the Wahhabi imams who wrote this textbook, it isn't enough to simply worship God or just to love other believers; it is important to hate unbelievers, too. By the same token, (b) is wrong as well: Even a man who worships God cannot be said to have "true belief" if he also loves unbelievers. "Unbelievers," in this context, are Christians and Jews. In fact, any child who attends Saudi schools until ninth grade will eventually be taught outright that "Jews and Christians are enemies of believers."

Google,
"A man professes that there is no deity other than God but loves the unbelievers"
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=%22A+man+professes+that+there+is+no+deity+other+than+God+but+loves+the+unbelievers%22&btnG=Search&meta=





In the UK print media....

Cleric preaches that violence is part of Islam
01/05/2007
In documents seen by The Daily Telegraph, al-Muhajiroun claimed: "Terrorism is a part of Islam" and "Allah made it obligatory to prepare and to terrify the enemy of Allah".
The article advised: "The kuffar of USA and UK are without doubt our enemy.There is no such thing as an innocent kafir, innocence is only applicable for the Muslims. Not only is it obligatory to fight them, it is haram [forbidden] to feel sorry for them."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/01/nplot901.xml




Moslem doctrine towards unbelief,
.....is that, it is permissible to oppress kill, murder, butcher, 'unbelievers' [who are the enemies of Allah],
AND, AND,


Quote:

".....it is haram [forbidden] to feel sorry for them ['unbelievers']."

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 16^th, 2009 at 9:22am:

Quote: Moslem charities are prohibited from collecting aid for non-moslems. This is just absolute nonsense.

You're right. I don't defend one religion over another, but I find it slightly irritating when the religious attack each other with such a  distorted view of reality.

There was an example in Qatar a couple of years ago where the emir donated land for the construction of a Catholic Church.

I know for a fact that the UAE donated substantially to the earthquakes in China last year. The Red Crescent also regularly provides relief for major disasters in Muslim and non-muslim countries alike.

If my memory serves me right, Kuwait also donated $500 million for disaster relief for Katrina and there are many other examples.

muso wrote on Sep 27^th, 2009 at 11:04am:

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 16th, 2009 at 9:22am: Quote: Moslem charities are prohibited from collecting aid for non-moslems. This is just absolute nonsense. You're right. I don't defend one religion over another, but I find it slightly irritating when the religious attack each other with such a  distorted view of reality. There was an example in Qatar a couple of years ago where the emir donated land for the construction of a Catholic Church.

muso,

I commend the emir of Qatar for his religious tolerance.

God bless him!






Quote:

I know for a fact that the UAE donated substantially to the earthquakes in China last year. The Red Crescent also regularly provides relief for major disasters in Muslim and non-muslim countries alike. If my memory serves me right, Kuwait also donated $500 million for disaster relief for Katrina and there are many other examples.

ISLAMIST 'charities' grateful, for Western/UN aid.
/sarc off

UN in collusion with ISLAMISTS, giving Western relief aid to moslem terrorists in Pakistan,

5 October 2006
How UN aid helped extremists after Pakistan earthquake
The BBC has discovered that one of the charities linked with extremists is now using its position to gain access to orphaned or fatherless children.
In the days following the catastrophic earthquake, the government of Pakistan promised that all such children would be looked after either by their extended family or the state.
...He said they had already sent 400 such children under the age of nine to board at their madrassas, or religious schools, some hundreds of miles from their homes.
...at one of their schools in the town of Mansehra - set up initially with the help of the United Nations Children's Fund, Unicef - primary children were singing a song at morning assembly which many might find disturbing.
It includes the line: "When people deny our faith, ask them to convert and if they don't, destroy them utterly."
I asked the Jamaat ud-Dawa spokesman, Abdullah Montazzer, why they were teaching such bloodthirsty songs to young children.
"No, they weren't singing that," he said. "Lots of infidels came in the aid effort and they weren't harmed. I don't believe these kids were singing these kind of songs."
I put it to him that virtually everyone I had spoken to in Pakistan said Jamaat and Lashkar were the same thing.
"We are not at all a militant organisation and we have no links with Lashkar at all."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5402756.stm



Sat 30 Jul 2005
Extremists rip off tsunami charity cash
IAN JOHNSTON
CHARITABLE donations to help people affected by the Asian tsunami disaster are falling into the hands of radical Islamic groups linked to terrorists in Indonesia, a leading expert on the global al-Qaeda network warned yesterday.
Relief money had become the "primary source" of income for two militant groups, including one founded by a Muslim cleric serving a prison sentence in connection with the Bali bombing in 2002 in which more than 200 people were killed.
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1703452005

from last news item,

"....Relief money had become the "primary source" of income for two militant groups, including one founded by a Muslim cleric serving a prison sentence in connection with the Bali bombing in 2002"

June 16, 2006
Indonesian MP warns Aust not to be 'silent enemy'
.....The [Australian] Federal Government had lodged complaints with the UN's World Food Program, after a spokesman for the organisation Majelis Mujahideen Indonesia (MMI) revealed Bashir would hand out 95 tonnes of donated food.
Mr Downer welcomed the UN's decision to cancel the contract.
"A spokesman for MMI has said that Abu Bakar Bashir himself will come and distribute food - well, that would obviously be a great propaganda win for a political extremist and the UN shouldn't be associated with that," he said.
"It's good news that they clearly don't want to be and that they've cancelled the arrangement."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200606/s1664482.htm




AND,


Saudi Relief Hypocrisy
How the kingdom uses and abuses “charity.”
http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=ODYzMzc3NzViOTg4MjlhYjcxMTg3YThkNmM0MjBmZDc=




ISLAM's advice to devout moslems, on Charity and Disaster Relief
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/027-disaster-relief.htm




Google,
"Red Crescent" charity jihadists
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=%22Red+Crescent%22+charity+jihadists&btnG=Search&meta=

Even if Saudi Arabia only gives aid to Muslim countries, it's still one of the largest aid donors in the world. Christian countries don't even give that kind of aid, whether to Christians or non-Christians. So you can hardly criticise them.

And the fact some Islamic aid agencies are linked to military organisations isn't all that bizarre. The U.S government is an aid donor that also has a "military wing".

Hamas for instance began life as an aid agency, assisting Palestinian families, and only later did it develop a military and a political wing.

Ramadan is here again.  How many Muslims will be murdered by other Muslims during the holy month worldwide? Will it be more or fewer than last year?
As a guide, August 1-7 - total killed in Jihad=112 (all denominations).

To those who preach tolerance.  Australians have for some time now, been indoctrinated with a submissive agenda.  Tolerance, if not practiced by all parties becomes distorted to a domination / submission scenario.

While Australians are expected to bow at the feet of Muslims, our women are spat on in the streets, our western culture is being held in contempt, and we are looked upon as the hated sub human infidels in our own country.

There are always exceptions to the rule, but the above attitude is far to prevalent amongst Australian Muslims.  I for one, don`t trust the loyalties of many muslims in this country, I would love to, but common sense and life experience has taught me other wise. Would you import snakes into your house?

What about Muslims? Are they also prepared to read Bible?
Or Aristotle was enough?

Soren wrote on Aug 13^th, 2010 at 9:34pm:

Ramadan is here again.  How many Muslims will be murdered by other Muslims during the holy month worldwide? Will it be more or fewer than last year? As a guide, August 1-7 - total killed in Jihad=112 (all denominations).

Ramadan 2010 Scorecard  - Day 16
In the name of the Religion of Peace:  Terror Attacks  112, Dead Bodies  503

In the name of All Other  Religions 0/0



Must be the poverty and ilsamophobia that does it.