Allah himself states via his Koran, that Allah has no children [K 37.152].

And Allah himself states that, 'Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah'.


"O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son."
Koran 4.171
and,
Koran 6.100,101
Koran 9.30,31
Koran 37.152




abu,

Given this direction, assertion from Allah, in the Koran

How do you explain that many, many moslems [in recent years] have had a vision of Jesus [the Jesus who, moslems claim is a moslem prophet]?

And after their vision, many, many of these moslems, then abandon ISLAM, and become Christians.

If as the Koran claims, Jesus is a moslem prophet, then why [in their vision] didn't Jesus warn these people, NOT to leave ISLAM???

Or [in the vision(s) of these moslem apostates] was the vision of Jesus, the vision of a demon?



+++++




MOSLEM CONVERSIONS TO CHRISTIANITY, AFTER VISIONS OF JESUS CHRIST
....apparently, this is not uncommon in recent years.


ISLAM AND THE TRUTH
CHRISTIAN TESTIMONIES
Perhaps the most striking thing to observe in YouTubes, or websites, of Muslims that have converted to Christianity is that they found Jesus Christ with their hearts (actually Jesus revealed Himself to them). Almost universally, testimonies of those that convert to Islam, indicate that they believe they found God with their heads.
Observe it for yourself. YouTubes of "convert to Christianity". YouTubes of "convert to Islam".
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/christian_testimonies.htm



Google,
iran visions of jesus
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=iran+visions+of+jesus&btnG=Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=


Google,
imam has vision of jesus
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&ei=fOfjSvmzKYbSsQPllom2Aw&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&ved=0CAkQBSgA&q=imam+has+vision+of+jesus&spell=1



Personally, i would urge [and encourage] all moslems, to study the Koran and Hadith, for themselves.

And to study also, the Old Testament, and the New Testament Bibles, as a comparative text.

Then, YOU choose, what you need to believe.





Deuteronomy 14:1
Ye [Israel] are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.
2  For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.


Deuteronomy 32:8
When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.
9  For the LORD'S portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.


Psalms 135:4
For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure.


Psalms 146:5
Happy is he that hath the God of Jacob for his help, whose hope is in the LORD his God:
6  Which made heaven, and earth, the sea, and all that therein is: which keepeth truth for ever:
7  Which executeth judgment for the oppressed: which giveth food to the hungry. The LORD looseth the prisoners:
8  The LORD openeth the eyes of the blind: the LORD raiseth them that are bowed down: the LORD loveth the righteous:
9  The LORD preserveth the strangers; he relieveth the fatherless and widow: but the way of the wicked he turneth upside down.
10  The LORD shall reign for ever, even thy God, O Zion, unto all generations. Praise ye the LORD.

Quote:

Allah himself states via his Koran, that Allah has no children [K 37.152]... Given this direction, assertion from Allah, in the Koran How do you explain that many, many moslems [in recent years] have had a vision of Jesus [the Jesus who, moslems claim is a moslem prophet]?

Sorry I fail to see the connection. Even if we accept such people have had visions (and are not just the small % of people in all societies who are mentally unstable) what on earth does it have to do with God having children or not??? The two issues are completely disjoint.


Quote:

How do you explain that many, many moslems [in recent years] have had a vision of Jesus [the Jesus who, moslems claim is a moslem prophet]? And after their vision, many, many of these moslems, then abandon ISLAM, and become Christians.

So Christian propaganda websites keep claiming. Just out of curiousity Yadda, have you even engaged one of them? I never have. Never actually come across a bona fide convert from Islam to Christianity. I suspect, that such "converts" only speak to Christians, because if they spoke to Muslims, they'd probably be exposed as frauds in seconds, either Arab Christians who feign conversion to pump up their fellow Christians, or even outright fabrications. The largest number of converts from Islam are to atheism/secularism, and even they are a tiny minute amount, certainly nowhere near as many Christians who've turned to atheism/secularism.

On the other hand, look at how many converts from Christianity to Islam have frequented just this site alone. Almost every single Muslim who has attended this site, has been a convert, admittedly that's not many. But on websites like AussieMuslims, we find that over 15% of the people there are converts or from Anglo-convert families (perhaps their parents converted long ago). That's the 3rd. largest ethnic group of Muslims. There's also a few Lebanese converts there, who were formerly Maronite Christians.

But as long as you feel content with your little fantasy that your missionary mates keep spinning to you, so be it :)


Quote:

ersonally, i would urge [and encourage] all moslems, to study the Koran and Hadith, for themselves. And to study also, the Old Testament, and the New Testament Bibles, as a comparative text.

Most already do... and they don't choose Christianity as a result of it :)

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 25^th, 2009 at 6:00pm:

I never have. Never actually come across a bona fide convert from Islam to Christianity. I suspect, that such "converts" only speak to Christians, because if they spoke to Muslims, they'd probably be exposed as frauds in seconds, either Arab Christians who feign conversion to pump up their fellow Christians, or even outright fabrications. The largest number of converts from Islam are to atheism/secularism, and even they are a tiny minute amount, certainly nowhere near as many Christians who've turned to atheism/secularism. On the other hand, look at how many converts from Christianity to Islam have frequented just this site alone. Almost every single Muslim who has attended this site, has been a convert, admittedly that's not many. But on websites like AussieMuslims, we find that over 15% of the people there are converts or from Anglo-convert families (perhaps their parents converted long ago). That's the 3rd. largest ethnic group of Muslims. There's also a few Lebanese converts there, who were formerly Maronite Christians.

abu [alias Cat Stevens???],

A news report, which perfectly compliments your stated views, above.

February 5, 2005
Muslim apostates cast out and at risk from faith and family
While Christians who turn to Islam are feted, the 200,000 Muslims who turn away are faced with abuse, violence and even murder
...His car, walls and windows have been daubed in graffiti: “Christian bastard”.
...While those who convert to Islam, such as Cat Stevens, Jemima Khan, and the sons of the Frank Dobson, the former Health Secretary, and Lord Birt, the former BBC Director-General, can publicly celebrate their new religion, those whose faith goes in the other direction face persecution.
...We had bricks though our windows, I was spat at in the street because they thought I was dishonouring Islam.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article510589.ece




Hey Christians, don't hide your light under a bush.

Tell your moslem brothers, that you have seen the error of your way!!
/sarc off [Yadda industries]

"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.052.260

Yadda, why is it that your side constantly hides behind unquantifiable/unverifiable claims on these forums all the time?

Gays supposedly exist in Muslm countries to the same degree as they exist in the West, it's just more underground.

Rapes supposedly occur in Muslim countries to the same degree as they exist in the West, it's just not reported.

Muslims supposedly convert to Christianity in large numbers, but they just can't be too public about it...

And the list goes on. Who can argue with it? Nobody because it's not verifiable. It's hearsay, conjecture, speculation... is that what you base your beliefs and ideas on Yadda?? Conjecture?

Yawn, at abu's remarks.



Disgust, at what ISLAM inspires in man,

http://images.google.com.au/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=iran+hanging&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&oq=


THE RELIGION OF PEACE
http://thereligionofpeace.com/

Yawning due to fatigue and feigning a yawn due to an inability to answer are not the same thing Yadda :)

Yadda said,


Quote:

MOSLEM CONVERSIONS TO CHRISTIANITY, AFTER VISIONS OF JESUS CHRIST ....apparently, this is not uncommon in recent years. ISLAM AND THE TRUTH CHRISTIAN TESTIMONIES Perhaps the most striking thing to observe in YouTubes, or websites, of Muslims that have converted to Christianity is that they found Jesus Christ with their hearts (actually Jesus revealed Himself to them). Almost universally, testimonies of those that convert to Islam, indicate that they believe they found God with their heads. Observe it for yourself. YouTubes of "convert to Christianity". YouTubes of "convert to Islam". http://www.islamandthetruth.com/christian_testimonies.htm

Yadda wrote on Oct 25^th, 2009 at 6:42pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 25th, 2009 at 6:00pm: I never have. Never actually come across a bona fide convert from Islam to Christianity. I suspect, that such "converts" only speak to Christians, because if they spoke to Muslims, they'd probably be exposed as frauds in seconds, either Arab Christians who feign conversion to pump up their fellow Christians, or even outright fabrications. The largest number of converts from Islam are to atheism/secularism, and even they are a tiny minute amount, certainly nowhere near as many Christians who've turned to atheism/secularism. On the other hand, look at how many converts from Christianity to Islam have frequented just this site alone. Almost every single Muslim who has attended this site, has been a convert, admittedly that's not many. But on websites like AussieMuslims, we find that over 15% of the people there are converts or from Anglo-convert families (perhaps their parents converted long ago). That's the 3rd. largest ethnic group of Muslims. There's also a few Lebanese converts there, who were formerly Maronite Christians. abu [alias Cat Stevens???], A news report, which perfectly compliments your stated views, above. February 5, 2005 Muslim apostates cast out and at risk from faith and family While Christians who turn to Islam are feted, the 200,000 Muslims who turn away are faced with abuse, violence and even murder ...His car, walls and windows have been daubed in graffiti: “Christian bastard”. ...While those who convert to Islam, such as Cat Stevens, Jemima Khan, and the sons of the Frank Dobson, the former Health Secretary, and Lord Birt, the former BBC Director-General, can publicly celebrate their new religion, those whose faith goes in the other direction face persecution. ...We had bricks though our windows, I was spat at in the street because they thought I was dishonouring Islam. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article510589.ece

abu said,


Quote:

Yadda, why is it that your side constantly hides behind unquantifiable/unverifiable claims on these forums all the time? ..... Muslims supposedly convert to Christianity in large numbers, but they just can't be too public about it...

6 Million Muslims convert to Christianity - Al-Jazeerah
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdVnILalpeo

Quote:

6 Million Muslims convert to Christianity - Al-Jazeerah http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdVnILalpeo

Firstly that's not a report from al-Jazeera, it's merely a claim made by a speaker on there. No empirical evidence to back it up at all.

Secondly, it's talking about Africans, who convert out of real physical hunger, not spiritual hunger, to any religion, the person holding the only bag of food they've seen in their life in front of them, asks them to....

Talk about hollow victory, if it could even be counted as a victory of any kind...

People converting out of desperation and starvation is different to people converting out of informed decision, as happens in the West with Christians and others who embrace Islam.