There is a brief but interesting article about this guy in today's Weekend Australian magazine, and it paints a grim picture for Turkey.

In the past, Turkey's army took control when a leader tried to drive the country towards being an islamic state. But earlier this year Erdogan ordered the arrest of 86 generals and servicemen, the culmination of a long campaign by his party against the army, and since coming to power in 2003 he has been quietly filling the bureaucracy with graduates from the country's religious schools.

http://www.crethiplethi.com/a-muslim-can-never-commit-genocide/global-islam/2009/

“It’s not possible for a Muslim to commit genocide.” (in defence of the sudanese President Omar Hassan al-Bashir)

http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/2213.htm

Turkish PM Erdogan in Speech During Term As Istanbul Mayor Attacks Turkey’s Constitution, Describing it As ‘A Huge Lie’: "Sovereignty Belongs Unconditionally and Always To Allah"; "One Cannot Be a Muslim, and Secular"

http://www.thelocal.de/society/20100317-25933.html

Erdogan advocated that turks living in foreign countries  should take out citizenship in their new homeland with the aim of becoming politically active, not in the interests of assimilating.

The fvcker bombed Kurds inside Iraq the day after the fauxtilla panto. Bet you never heard about it.

islamics are crazy illogical front bottoms
all islamics are muslims

go bugger yourself annie

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In the past, Turkey's army took control when a leader tried to drive the country towards being an islamic state. But earlier this year Erdogan ordered the arrest of 86 generals and servicemen, the culmination of a long campaign by his party against the army, and since coming to power in 2003 he has been quietly filling the bureaucracy with graduates from the country's religious schools.

I thought you were an advocate of "democracy" fd? Seems you're upset a democratically elected leader is trying to prevent a military which is known to try and control civilian government from keeping it's status as a law unto itself.

I thought you'd be all for that? Or only when it's non-Muslims or apostates? And you wonder why Muslims are a little "weary" of democracy... Perhaps because it's nothing but hypocrisy?

Be honest Abu. Would the destruction of secularism in Turkey be followed closely by the destruction of democracy and then freedom?

Democracy is a fragile thing. It must be protected from those who would destroy it, even if they are elected. A good example is Hitler. No-one would have considered it undemocratic for the Germans to remove him and reinstate democracy, even though he was elected. Likewise, if secularism and democracy are the same thing for Recep, the militrary has a moral and constitutional mandate to prevent him from destroying it. This must be done before it is too late.

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Be honest Abu. Would the destruction of secularism in Turkey be followed closely by the destruction of democracy and then freedom?

Erdogan is quite a staunch secularist, so your claims are unfounded anyway.

Besides haven't you always argued democracy merely means electing your leader? If this is the case, then democracy should have nothing to do with secularism.


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Democracy is a fragile thing

Democracy is a farce.


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It must be protected from those who would destroy it, even if they are elected.

So you must now agree then that it's more than just merely electing a leader.


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A good example is Hitler. No-one would have considered it undemocratic for the Germans to remove him and reinstate democracy, even though he was elected.

Interesting parallel, especially since Hitler was a secularist.


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Likewise, if secularism and democracy are the same thing for Recep, the militrary has a moral and constitutional mandate to prevent him from destroying it. This must be done before it is too late.

In other words you feel the military should always hold the ultimate power in a country, and civilian government is only to be tolerated if it is to fall in line with the ideals of those who are heads in the military?

Isn't that called military dictatorship?

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Erdogan is quite a staunch secularist

Can you explain why he said this?


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"One Cannot Be a Muslim, and Secular"

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Besides haven't you always argued democracy merely means electing your leader? If this is the case, then democracy should have nothing to do with secularism.

My concern is for Turkey's democracy. If I thought they were to get rid of secularism but maintain democracy, I would not have a problem. But I think that is unlikely.

Also, secularism is important to protect freedom of religion. Again, not directly linked to democracy, but also important.

Ultimately, I think secularism is necessary for both democracy and freedom. By secularism I mean avoiding institutional connections between government and religion. This still allows religion to play a strong role via democratic processes.


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So you must now agree then that it's more than just merely electing a leader.

You have to have regular elections. Electing a leader once and then turing into a doctatorship is not democratic.


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Interesting parallel, especially since Hitler was a secularist.

I suspect you are missing the point. People can have all sorts of motives (usually power lust) for overturing a democracy. Democracy must be protected, whatever the ideology of the wannabe dictator.


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In other words you feel the military should always hold the ultimate power in a country, and civilian government is only to be tolerated if it is to fall in line with the ideals of those who are heads in the military?

No. For democracy to function there must be a balance of power. Putting too  much power in the hands of one individual or group inevitably leads to problems. Obviously this balance is a bit problematic in a Muslim country where so many oppose democracy.


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Isn't that called military dictatorship?

As far as I know, Turkey's military has always promptly returned power to the people via democracy.