Post by Chimp_Logic on May 19th, 2013 at 10:15am
moses wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:01am:
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Do you quote anything from the Torah?
Or God forbid, the Talmud???
Why would this be the case Moses? What are you hiding? What exactly are you afraid of?
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Member Run Boards >> Islam >> The inerrant Koran??? http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1295396564 Message started by Yadda on Jan 19th, 2011 at 10:22am |
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Title: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Yadda on Jan 19th, 2011 at 10:22am
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The inerrant Koran??? Contrary evidence is apparent. EXAMPLE #1 Moslems in this age, make the claim that the Jewish Old Testament Bible, and the New Testament, are corrupted scriptures. And yet, surprise, surprise, moslems also make the claim that the Koran is pristine and miraculously inerrant [without error]. /sarc off And yet, and yet, and yet; Within the 'inerrant' Koran, in many places, it is declared that 'the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus)', were revealed, and sent to Moses and Jesus, by Allah. And many 'inerrant' Koran verses actually venerate the Jewish O.T. Bible, and the New Testament scriptures, as clearly being authentic scriptures. i.e. At that time, when the Koran was being revealed to Mohammed, Allah declares [within the 'inerrant' Koran] that the Jewish O.T. Bible, and the New Testament scriptures, are authentic scriptures!! And the Koran states very clearly, that those scriptures which had 'come before', to Moses and Jesus, had actually been protected by Allah! ..., 'confirming the scripture that came before it [i.e. before the Koran], and guarding it in safety' . Yet today, moslems [contradicting the contents of the 'inerrant' Koran!!] dare to declare that the Jewish Old Testament Bible, and the New Testament, are corrupted scriptures! How can this be discrepancy be explained? This discrepancy is explained simply, as the mendacity of moslem scholars, wishing to denigrate and disparage, Judaism, and Christianity, in an attempt to deprive Judaism, and Christianity of their theological legitimacy. 2 Q's Q1. Don't these Koran verses [below] contradict the claims made by moslems of this age, that the Jewish O.T. Bible, and the New Testament scriptures, were, or have been, corrupted by Jews, and Christians? Q2. For if.....as moslems maintain, the Jewish O.T. Bible, and the New Testament scriptures were corrupted, by Jews, and Christians, where are the AUTHENTIC copies of these scriptures, which moslems themselves clearly venerated, as [their own] originating foundation documents state and declare? +++ Here are some of the Koran verses, which refer to, 'the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus)'... "Allah! There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-Subsisting, Eternal. It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong)." Koran 3.2-3 "And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah. Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein...... To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety:......." Koran 5.46-48 "If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side.........Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." Koran 5.66-69 n.b. In the above quote, note the use of the present tense, 'who follow'. "Then, in their wake, We followed them up with (others of) Our messengers: We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospel;....." Koran 57.27 "A group of Jews came and invited the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) to Quff. So he visited them in their school. They said: AbulQasim, one of our men has committed fornication with a woman; so pronounce judgment upon them. They placed a cushion for the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) who sat on it and said: Bring the Torah. It was then brought. He then withdrew the cushion from beneath him and placed the Torah on it saying: I believed in thee and in Him Who revealed thee." hadith/abudawud/ #038.4434 i.e. The Hadith declares, that Mohammed revered a clearly UNCORRUPTED Torah, which Mohammed held in his hands. n.b. "....I [Mohammed] believed in thee [the Torah] and in Him Who revealed thee. " see also, hadith/bukhari/ #008.082.809 hadith/muwatta/ #041.41.1.1 A PROPOSITION OF LOGIC; To believe the moslem assertion, made today, that the Jewish O.T. Bible, and the New Testament scriptures have been corrupted, by Jews, and Christians, you have to believe that not one uncorrupted copy of either text survived [i.e. within a single moslem jurisdiction]. How likely is that, when ISLAMIC texts themselves, clearly state that these scriptures ['the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus)'], were protected by Allah, and venerated by Mohammed? |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Yadda on Jan 19th, 2011 at 10:24am
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The inerrant Koran??? Contrary evidence is apparent. EXAMPLE #2 "O Miriam, sister of Aaron, mother of Jesus!" The 'inerrant' Koran is so 'confused' that it presents, Miriam [Mary], the sister of Aaron [and Moses, Exodus 15:20], as the mother of, ...Jesus. Read it yourself... "O sister of Aaron!...." Koran 19:27-34 Google, quran mary the sister of aaron the mother of jesus |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Yadda on Jan 19th, 2011 at 10:29am
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The inerrant Koran??? Contrary evidence is apparent. EXAMPLE #3 The Koran states that Allah gave the gospel scripture, to Jesus. The 'inerrant' Koran states it, so it must be true! /sarc off Dictionary; gospel = = the record of Christ’s life and teaching in the first four books of the New Testament. "And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah." Koran 5.46 Koran 5.110 "Then, in their wake, We followed them up with (others of) Our messengers: We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospel;..." Koran 57.27 And moslems claim that the contents of the Koran are the direct words of Allah, and thereby, moslems know that the Koran is inerrant. Allah is such a clever god, to give the gospel to Jesus. ;D |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Yadda on May 15th, 2013 at 11:50am polite_gandalf wrote on May 14th, 2013 at 11:20pm:
Gandalf, So according to moslems, where is the Torah ? Because the [inerrant] Koran 5.046,48 states that "We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety:" And Mohammed [himself] confirmed that the Torah which he had access to, was still revered. Where is the Torah which Mohammed, and moslems revered ? [n.b. Mohammed's reverence for the Torah, is cited in the hadith] Why was the >> holy << Torah, allowed, by Allah, to be corrupted ??? So, Gandalf, wasn't the all powerful Allah, able to protect the revered Torah, any longer ? Three Things About Islam http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1328405030/63#63 Quote:
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1295396564/0#0 [/quote] |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Yadda on May 15th, 2013 at 11:51am polite_gandalf wrote on May 14th, 2013 at 11:20pm:
Yes, it is so. #1, The Jews rejected the Koran [as being a holy scripture, delivered from their God], and, the Jews rejected Mohammed's claim to be a prophet from their God. And as a consequence of this rejection, Mohammed declared Allah's religious enmity towards the Jews. A religious enmity towards the Jews, that continues to this day. "....We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people:....." Koran 5.32 "Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews." hadithsunnah/muslim/ Book 041, Number 6985 Moslems must kill all of the Jews. Every Jew. But, collective punishment is OK. Coz they are those mischievous Jews. #2, And [many] Jews today, still revere the Torah. That, is a crime against Allah, coz Allah allowed the 'protected/guarded' Torah, to be corrupted. It all makes sense, doesn't it! :P |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Yadda on May 15th, 2013 at 11:52am polite_gandalf wrote on May 14th, 2013 at 11:20pm:
Gandalf, IMO, it is certain that ISLAM is a new religion, wholly unconnected to Judaism and Christianity. But the intellectual duplicity of ISLAM/moslem scholars is In the first breath [in an effort to give a validity to its own claim to divinity], ISLAM claims an 'evolutionary' connection to Judaism and Christianity, but then in the next breath ISLAM declares that, no, ISLAM is a repudiation of a corrupt Judaism and a corrupt Christianity !! Dictionary; repudiate = = 1 refuse to accept or be associated with. 2 deny the truth or validity of. But, Israel is not cast off. God's covenant people, are not cast off. The God of Israel declares that, although 'he shall sit as a refiner and purifier' of his people, the children of Israel, [a remnant of his people] will never be destroyed. Who are the remnant of God's people today, gandalf ? Moslems ? LOL Psalms 94:14 For the LORD will not cast off his people, neither will he forsake his inheritance. 15 But judgment shall return unto righteousness: and all the upright in heart shall follow it. Jeremiah 31:37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD. Lamentations 3:31 For the Lord will not cast off for ever: Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. ISLAM is a new religion. All a person need do to confirm this [in their heart], is to examine the scripture of firstly the original religion, and then examine the scripture of the new religion. What happened Gandalf ?, did the God of the Torah have a personality transplant ? SCRIPTURE OF Quote:
SCRIPTURE OF NEW RELIGION; Quote:
cited.... an eye-opening analysis of terrorism in Europe http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1294223444/46#46 |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by gandalf on May 15th, 2013 at 1:49pm Yadda wrote on May 15th, 2013 at 11:50am:
As far as I know its the same one. Muslims believe that much of the Torah (in its present form) has been embellished, but my understanding is that the core of it is the same message that the Quran refers to. The Quran provides a good 'rule of thumb' for understanding which of the non-Quranic scriptures are genuine, and which are corrupted: "Then do they not reflect upon the Quran? If it had been from [any] other than Allah, they would have found within it much contradiction" 4:82 Quote:
God has given humans the freedom to corrupt whatever they want in this world - you of all people should understand that. The "true" uncorrupted versions of all the scriptures are sitting there safely in heaven I would imagine. God merely revealed these to mankind through His prophets, who then dessiminated it to the whole of mankind. What humans choose to do with the physical paper that this revelation was recorded on is entirely up to them - as is Man's privilege. But whatever they do to it - rewrite it, throw it on the fire or piss on it - they are obviously never going to bring any harm to the true versions. |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by moses on May 15th, 2013 at 7:43pm
Which was created first Heaven or Earth?
qur'an 2:29: He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth. Then turned He to the heaven, and fashioned it as seven heavens. And He is knower of all things. First earth and then heaven However later on: qur'an 79.26 : Verily in this is an instructive warning for whosoever feareth (Allah). qur'an79.027 : What! Are ye the more difficult to create or the heaven (above)? (Allah) hath constructed it: qur'an79.028 : On high hath He raised its canopy, and He hath given it order and perfection. qur'an79.029 : And He made dark the night thereof, and He brought forth the morn thereof. qur'an79.030 : And after that He spread the earth, Now it's heaven was first and after that earth. =============================================================================================================== How many days for allah to create the earth? qur'an 7:54 Lo! your lord is allah who created the heavens and the earth in six Days, then mounted He the Throne. He covereth the night with the day, which is in haste to follow it, and hath made the sun and the moon and the stars subservient by His command. His verily is all creation and commandment. Blessed be Allah, the Lord of the Worlds! qur'an 10 3 Lo! your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days, then He established Himself upon the Throne, directing all things. There is no intercessor (with Him) save after His permission. That is Allah, your Lord, so worship Him. Oh, will ye not remind? Both clearly state 6 days. However later on: qur'an41.9 : Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in two Days? And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds. qur'an41.10 : He set on the (earth), mountains standing firm, high above it, and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measure therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in four Days, in accordance with (the needs of) those who seek (Sustenance). qur'an41.11 : Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience." qur'an41.12 : So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge. So we have 2 days to create the earth, 4 days to fill the earth with mountains etc., 2 days to make the firmaments. 2 + 4 + 2 = 8 days to create heaven and earth =============================================================================================================== What was man created from? qur'an 96:2 Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood: So we have a blood clot qur'an 21:30 Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe? qur'an 25:54And He it is Who hath created man from water, and hath appointed for him kindred by blood and kindred by marriage; for thy Lord is ever Powerful. Or perhaps it was water qur'an 15:26 We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape; Or maybe "sounding" (i.e. burned) clay qur'an 3:59 Lo! the likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is. qur'an 30:20 Among His Signs in this, that He created you from dust; and then,- behold, ye are men scattered (far and wide)! Then again it could be Dust qur'an 19:67 But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing? Nothing qur'an16:4He has created man from a drop of thickened fluid ; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! A drop of thickened fluid Take your pick from any of the above muslims don't know but they will kill you for not revering their stupidity =============================================================================================================== |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Brian Ross on May 15th, 2013 at 9:00pm
So, Allah, an omnipotent being can't multi-task, Moses? ::)
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by moses on May 16th, 2013 at 9:43pm
Oh yes. we all know, allah loves multi-tasking.
he instructed his devotees to perform his all time favourite sacred duty (killing innocent men women and children), by multi-tasking wherever and whenever possible. |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by moses on May 16th, 2013 at 9:50pm
Who was the first muslim??
qur'an6:14Say: Shall I choose for a protecting friend other than Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, Who feedeth and is never fed? Say:I am ordered to be the first to surrender (unto Him). And be not thou (O Muhammad) of the idolaters. qur'an 6:163 He hath no partner. This am I commanded, and I am first of those who surrender (unto Him). muhammad was the first qur'an 7:143And when Moses came to Our appointed tryst and his Lord had spoken unto him, he said: My Lord! Show me (Thy Self), that I may gaze upon Thee. He said: Thou wilt not see Me, but gaze upon the mountain! If it stand still in its place, then thou wilt see Me. And when his Lord revealed (His) glory to the mountain He sent it crashing down. And Moses fell down senseless. And when he woke he said: Glory unto Thee! I turn unto Thee repentant, and I am the first of (true) believers. Moses was the first quran; 3.52 : When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah?" Said the disciples: "We are Allah's helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims. Jesus disciples were over 600 years before muhammad, now they are muslims, maybe they are the first. qur'an 2:127And remember Abraham and Isma'il raised the foundations of the House (With this prayer): "Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us: For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-knowing. qur'an 2.136 : Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)." Abraham and Isma'il etc. etc. were thousands of years before muhammad, now they are credited with being muslims, or perhaps they are the first. qur'an 2:37 Then Adam received from his Lord words (of revelation), and He relented toward him. Lo! He is the relenting, the Merciful. This would make Adam the first to receive allah's word. So who was the first muhammad, Adam, Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, take your pick islam doesn't know ========================================================================== Was anyone sent to warn the people before muhammad? qur'an10:47 To every people (was sent) a messenger: when their messenger comes (before them), the matter will be judged between them with justice, and they will not be wronged. qur'an 16:36 For We assuredly sent amongst every People a messenger, (with the Command), "Serve Allah, and eschew Evil": of the People were some whom Allah guided, and some on whom error became inevitably (established). So travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who denied (the Truth). quran 35:24Verily We have sent thee in truth, as a bearer of glad tidings, and as a warner: and there never was a people, without a warner having lived among them (in the past). All say messengers were sent to warn all people However later on, in true fallible style: quran 28:46 Nor wast thou at the side of (the Mountain of) Tur when we called (to Moses). Yet (art thou sent) as Mercy from thy Lord, to give warning to a people to whom no warner had come before thee: in order that they may receive admonition. quran 32:3 Or do they say, "He has forged it"? Nay, it is the Truth from thy Lord, that thou mayest admonish a people to whom no warner has come before thee: in order that they may receive guidance. qur'an 34:44And We have given them no scriptures which they study, nor sent We unto them, before thee, any warner. qur'an 36:6 In order that thou mayest admonish a people, whose fathers had received no admonition, and who therefore remain heedless (of the Signs of Allah). All say that muhammad was the first sent to warn the people, so once again allah hasn't got a clue. ========================================================================== |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Brian Ross on May 16th, 2013 at 9:53pm
***WHOOSH*** straight over your head, Moses. ::)
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Yadda on May 16th, 2013 at 10:50pm moses wrote on May 16th, 2013 at 9:50pm:
Indeed moses. The 'inerrant' Koran is so 'confused' on so many issues. And the 'inerrant' Koran is claimed by moslems, to be divinely inspired. :D ;D Poor moslems. But, moslems choose to believe and follow it. +++ Psalms 5:1 Give ear to my words, O LORD, consider my meditation. 2 Hearken unto the voice of my cry, my King, and my God: for unto thee will I pray. 3 My voice shalt thou hear in the morning, O LORD; in the morning will I direct my prayer unto thee, and will look up. 4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. 5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. 6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man. Psalms 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. 8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice. 9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities. 10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. 11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. 12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit. 13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee. |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by moses on May 18th, 2013 at 5:05pm
Thanks Yadda, there are a lot of intriguing verses in the Bible.
Quote:
muslims all agree that the Arabic / islamic nation descended from Ishmael. So the parallel for then and now is: Old Testament prophecy; Ishmael will be the enemy of all mankind. TODAY (fact); islam / muslims are the enemy of all mankind. It is interesting that the prophecy used the words his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him as today we see muslims kill muslims, muslims kill non-muslims. They indeed are the enemy of every man. Now if we jump to an *end of times* prophecy in the Bible we see: Quote:
The challenging thing about this verse is that it refers specifically to Beheading as the means of executing those who believe in Christ and the Word of God. (no other method is mentioned) The ONLY People on this planet who still behead are?: muslims! They are world's enemy, (not only by prophecy) but evidenced by the world wide terrorist cells / attacks. |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Brian Ross on May 18th, 2013 at 5:21pm
I thought you claimed that Christians don't refer to The Old Testament, Moses? Does this mean you are not a true Christian? ::)
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by moses on May 19th, 2013 at 10:01am
What will the people in hell eat?
quran 88:6 No food will there be for them but a bitter Dhari' quran: 69:36 Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds(pus) quran: 37.062 : Is this better as a welcome, or the tree of Zaqqum? quran37.063 : Lo! We have appointed it a torment for wrong-doers. quran37.064 : Lo! it is a tree that springeth in the heart of hell. quran37.065 : The shoots of its fruit-stalks are like the heads of devils: quran37.066 : Truly they will eat thereof and fill their bellies therewith. So once again allah and muhammad don't know. ========================================================================== Will allah reward unbelievers? qur'an. 9:17 It is not for the idolaters to tend Allah's sanctuaries, bearing witness against themselves of disbelief. As for such, their works are vain and in the Fire they will abide. qur'an 9:69 As in the case of those before you: they were mightier than you in power, and more flourishing in wealth and children. They had their enjoyment of their portion: and ye have of yours, as did those before you; and ye indulge in idle talk as they did. They!- their work are fruitless in this world and in the Hereafter, and they will lose (all spiritual good). Both verses say no. But then qur'an.2:62 Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve. Promises Christians, Jews and Sabians reward for their good deeds. However quran 9:30;The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! A complete turnaround, allah willl curse them. So we see that islam, allah, muhammad or the quran do not know: first they won't, then they will, then they won't allah curses them. |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Chimp_Logic on May 19th, 2013 at 10:15am moses wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:01am:
Do you quote anything from the Torah? Or God forbid, the Talmud??? Why would this be the case Moses? What are you hiding? What exactly are you afraid of? |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Yadda on May 19th, 2013 at 10:38am Chimp_Logic wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 10:15am:
chimp, Here are some Torah quotes for you, about COVENANT BREAKERS; http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1238715411/458#458 and some more, here; http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1294224584/11#11i The Talmud??? Torah is Jewish scripture, from God. The Talmud is of man. |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Brian Ross on May 19th, 2013 at 1:50pm
Moses is a Zealot Christian, Chimp. He has a place already booked on his new Ma'sada. ::)
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by moses on May 20th, 2013 at 3:37pm
The qur'an has a special place where the sun sets and rises
qur'an 18:86 Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness. qur'an 18:90 Till, when he reached the rising-place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter therefrom. According to allah, muhammad and the qur'an, the earth is flat, otherwise how can there be an extreme point in the West or in the East? It does not say, he went as far as possible on land in these directions and then observed the sun-rise or sun-set while standing at this shore. A sunrise / sunset there would be basically just the same as at any other place on this earth, at land or sea. It would still look as if it is rising or setting "over the horizon". It does say, that he reached THE SETTING PLACE where the sun sets (in a muddy spring) and in his second journey THE RISING PLACE where it rises. Once again an utterly stupid flaw in islam and the qur'an |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by gandalf on May 20th, 2013 at 4:36pm
Hey Moses I found another verse that I find curiously relevant:
"And Lo! There will be amongst you great imbeciles who will be incapable of detecting even the most simple metaphors!" prophetic wouldn't you say? |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Baronvonrort on May 20th, 2013 at 6:04pm polite_gandalf wrote on May 20th, 2013 at 4:36pm:
So what does the Quran say about embryology? Did Mo copy the flawed works of Galen? Your Allah is a dumbfvckistani, i use the embryology in the Quran as evidence. |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Hot Breath on May 21st, 2013 at 12:34pm
The Bible is considered divinely inspired and it is full of contradictory passages! So, why pick exclusively on the Koran?
Ah, the unfathomable minds of bigots. ;D |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by moses on May 21st, 2013 at 5:36pm
Should you be kind to your parents at all times?
17:23 : Thy Lord hath decreed that ye worship none but Him, and that ye be kind to parents. Whether one or both of them attain old age in thy life, say not to them a word of contempt, nor repel them, but address them in terms of honour. 17.24 : And, out of kindness, lower to them the wing of humility, and say: "My Lord! bestow on them thy Mercy even as they cherished me in childhood." 31.14 : And We have enjoined on man (to be good) to his parents: in travail upon travail did his mother bear him, and in years twain was his weaning: (hear the command), "Show gratitude to Me and to thy parents: to Me is (thy final) Goal. 32.15: "But if they strive to make thee join in worship with Me things of which thou hast no knowledge, obey them not; yet bear them company in this life with justice (and consideration), and follow the way of those who turn to me (in love): in the end the return of you all is to Me, and I will tell you the truth (and meaning) of all that ye did." 29.8 : We have enjoined on man kindness to parents: but if they (either of them) strive (to force) thee to join with Me (in worship) anything of which thou hast no knowledge, obey them not. Ye have (all) to return to me, and I will tell you (the truth) of all that ye did. In all of the above, the quran commands all Muslims to show kindness to their parents, even if they are disbelievers. However true to form: 9:23O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers. 58:22: Thou wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who resist Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred. For such He has written Faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with a spirit from Himself. And He will admit them to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, to dwell therein (for ever). Allah will be well pleased with them, and they with Him. They are the Party of Allah. Truly it is the Party of Allah that will achieve Felicity. On the other hand, it demands not to show any love or friendship to those who oppose muhammad, even if they are their parents. Don't forget muslims will kill you over this book of flaws. |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by moses on May 22nd, 2013 at 4:12pm
Who causes the evil in our lives?
38:41: And make mention (O Muhammad) of Our bondman Job, when he cried unto his Lord (saying): Lo! the devil doth afflict me with distress and torment. First it's the devil 4:79: Whatever good, (O man!) happens to thee, is from Allah; but whatever evil happens to thee, is from thy (own) soul. and We have sent thee as a messenger to (instruct) mankind. And enough is Allah for a witness. Oops no it's not blame your own soul. 4:78: Wheresoever ye may be, death will overtake you, even though ye were in lofty towers. Yet if a happy thing befalleth them they say: This is from Allah; and if an evil thing befalleth them they say: This is of thy doing (O Muhammad). Say (unto them): All is from Allah. What is amiss with these people that they come not nigh to understand a happening? Well then again let's blame allah. |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Brian Ross on May 22nd, 2013 at 11:37pm
Perhaps we should look at The Bible, Moses? Divinely Inspired, or so it is claimed and yet is is full of contradictions:
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[url=http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html]Source[/url] |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Brian Ross on May 22nd, 2013 at 11:39pm
And a few more...
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[url=http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html]Source[/url] |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Brian Ross on May 22nd, 2013 at 11:40pm
Perhaps few more, Moses?
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[url=http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html]Source[/url] |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by moses on May 23rd, 2013 at 3:17pm
Thanks for input Brian, good to see a bit of *balance*.
Now to get back on topic: The inerrant Koran ??? We all known the dangers posed by this flawed book, it urges it's followers to slaughter innocent men, women and children. (something they do on a daily basis around the globe) We also know muslims work themselves into a euphoric stupor, then will kill people in the most horrific manner possible, over the qur'an. So let's see: Is the word of allah true, can it be changed? 6:115: Perfected is the Word of thy Lord in truth and justice. There is naught that can change His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower. 6:34: Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers. 10:64: For them are glad tidings, in the life of the present and in the Hereafter; no change can there be in the words of Allah. This is indeed the supreme felicity. All of the above say nothing can change the word of allah However once again we see a turnaround: 2:106 None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things? 16:101: And when We put a revelation in place of (another) revelation, - and Allah knoweth best what He revealeth - they say: Lo! thou art but inventing. Most of them know not. Then allah and muhammad change their mind, the original word of allah is untrue, so change it for something else. This flawed book is the instigator of islamic atrocities being committed on a daily basis around the world. |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Soren on May 23rd, 2013 at 10:47pm Brian Ross wrote on May 22nd, 2013 at 11:37pm:
Inspired. Have you ever been inspired to write or say something? Dictated. Have you ever written down a dictated text? Can you really, really not tell the difference? Or are you just clutching at every possible excuse, no matter how stupidly far-fetched, just so you can continue to block your ears, shut your yes and shout 'I can't hear you, I can't see you'? |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Brian Ross on May 24th, 2013 at 7:58am moses wrote on May 23rd, 2013 at 3:17pm:
Yes it is. So, Moses why do you ignore the problems and contradictions in your own holy book in favour of attacking Islam's? Oh, that's right, your book is divinely inspired, in your view, their book is malevolently inspired. ::) Perhaps it's a case of pot, kettle, black, yet again, Moses? Matthew 7:3-5 ::) |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by moses on May 24th, 2013 at 11:02am
Brian Ross wrote:
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O.K Brian let's do it one more time: islam is a clear and present danger to all mankind The reason I make that statement is: The fundamental islamic belief that muhammad was the last and final prophet and messenger of allah, after whom there can be no prophet or messenger. A distinguished apostle in every aspect was none other than saidina muhammad .He was sent to be sent to the world as the last prophet, the final one, after whom no other messenger was to be sent again by allah. This is the reason why he was granted a shari'ah or the law that was perfect and final requiring no revision in the days to come. For the teaching of the last prophet were to be everbinding, to remain unchanged to the end of time, he was sent as a acme of perfection with over-flowing guidance and resplendent light. There can be no revision of the qur'an. . Now as I wrote a couple of posts back: We all known the dangers posed by this flawed book, it urges it's followers to slaughter innocent men, women and children. (something they do on a daily basis around the globe) We also know muslims work themselves into a euphoric stupor, then will kill people in the most horrific manner possible, over the qur'an. So You see Brian muslims believe the qur'an is perfect and cannot be changed or revised This means that the myriad of commands, instructions to commit human rights atrocities against their fellow man, are accepted as perfect and the final teachings of islam. It is our duty to ridicule and belittle this cult of killers at every opportunity. |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Hot Breath on May 24th, 2013 at 1:19pm moses wrote on May 24th, 2013 at 11:02am:
Your conclusions are based on erroneous premises. Your premises are based upon prejudice, not fact. Please go back and prove your premises before attempting to show your conclusions. You won't because it would expose your prejudices for what they are - the result of ignorance and hatred! ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by moses on May 24th, 2013 at 6:01pm
Now to get back on topic:
Does allah love mankind, the children of Adam? 17:70 Verily we have honoured the Children of Adam. We carry them on the land and the sea, and have made provision of good things for them, and have preferred them above many of those whom We created with a marked preferment. Says that allah prefers the children of Adam over many of his creatures, 98:6: Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures. Suddenly the non-muslims are the worst of creatures. muslims kill on a daily basis around the globe as they dementedly shout the islamic death chant of *allahua akbar*. Because this flawed book tells them to. |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by gandalf on May 24th, 2013 at 8:37pm
Is this Yadda's apprentice?
You'll need to work on the spacing and excessive large fonts and bolding. Don't forget the beheading placards too. |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Yadda on May 24th, 2013 at 11:26pm
moses,
I don't know if you are familiar with the Prophet of Doom website. A lot of information there. http://prophetofdoom.net/Islamic_Quotes_Murder.Islam #2, ALSO; Here is a list [listed by subject], of many YTube audio files explaining the worship of Allah, by moslems. [i highly recommend ALL of these audio files, to anyone who can spare the time to listen to them] This brave Arabic speaking Iraqi clearly has a good knowledge of ISLAMIC doctrine, and in these talks he explains, and exposes the intent and 'logical' basis, of ISLAMIC doctrines, to the naive and uninformed Kuffar. http://www.al-rassooli.com/ahmadsquran3/ |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Brian Ross on May 25th, 2013 at 9:40am polite_gandalf wrote on May 24th, 2013 at 8:37pm:
They will come, they will come. Moses is the best example I've ever discovered of a Takfiri Christian. No other opinion about Christianity, no matter how based on fact it is, is acceptable. He is an exact mirror image of the Takfir Islamists that he criticises. I expect any day to read of him beheading or hacking to death some poor innocent Muslim in the street. ::) |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Soren on May 25th, 2013 at 10:07am Brian Ross wrote on May 25th, 2013 at 9:40am:
Why would a Christian or anyone non-Muslim do something that is so singularly Islamic? Anyway, how has Islam improved Western societies in the last 100 years? What is the positive that Islam brings to the West? I can't think of anything. Can you? |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Yadda on May 25th, 2013 at 1:02pm Brian Ross wrote on May 25th, 2013 at 9:40am:
A moslem, is a person who chooses to embrace a philosophy, ISLAM, which teaches moslems that it is 'lawful' for moslems, to lie to, to plunder and to rob, to rape, to enslave, and to kill those, who do not believe, as they believe. "....some poor innocent Muslim" Every 'innocent' moslem is a person who chooses to follow such an evil supremacist philosophy, a philosophy which promotes [such 'social interaction', as] intimidation, vicious violence, rape, murder, banditry and brigandry as being 'righteous' and 'lawful' [so long as those 'affections' are inflicted upon those outside of their own social 'camp']. This 'righteous' intimidation and violence, this religious bigotry, is encouraged and is made 'lawful' by the philosophy of ISLAM, so as to promote ISLAM and the moslem worldview, and moslem supremacist fantasies. And every moslem, by self declaring as a moslem, has fully chosen to embrace this wickedness. "......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith." Koran 2.089 "....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith." Koran 2.98 "O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)." Koran 9.123 "O ye who believe! Take not my enemies and yours as friends.....offering them (your) love,..." Koran 60.1 "Muslims are one ummah (community) to the exclusion of all men. Believers are friends of one another to the exclusion of all outsiders." Ishaq:231 Therefore, "innocent moslem", is a lie, it is a typically duplicitous moslem phrase, and it is an oxymoron. "His mischief shall return upon his own head,..." The wicked... Psalms 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief shall return upon his own head, and his violent dealing shall come down upon his own pate. 17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high. |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Brian Ross on May 25th, 2013 at 1:50pm Soren wrote on May 25th, 2013 at 10:07am:
Ask Joseph Koney and his followers, Soren. They do it regularly in the name of their Christian God. ::) Quote:
It provides an alternative viewpoint on all issues, Soren. That you seem to see no value in that merely shows how bigoted you actually are. Tell me, what viewpoint does Christianity provide? Buddhism? Hinduism? All different, all valuable. From them all, including Islam a synthesis is created. Only a chauvinist would attempt to declare that the views of billions of human beings was of no value. ::) |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Soren on May 25th, 2013 at 2:36pm Brian Ross wrote on May 25th, 2013 at 1:50pm:
Cheeses !! DO we now have to validate and accept and nurture every fvckn point of view? Including the Islamic one which eradicates every other point of view when it's got the numbers? ANd don't tell me that in a liberal democracy you've had a limited variety of points of view until Islam was imported? Or that you have to actually have large number of anti-freedom Muslims in your midst to know what point of view they represent. And what is positive about Islam, how is it an improvement on liberal democracy and freedom. Christianity, among other things, has given you freedom, human rights and liberal democracy. These thing did not develop anywhere except in the Christian West - not under islam or Hinduism or the dreamtime or among native Americans or anywhere in Africa or Asia. Only in the West and only because the fundamental Christian tenet of equality before god. It all comes from that. And no other religion has it, Only Christianity - that's why these good things originate in the West. The church fought against them but was ultimately lost the battle to its own fundamental doctrine -equality before god. ANd hey, you do not even have to be a Christian to enjoy its fruits and inheritance. WHat are Islam's fruits?i |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Yadda on May 25th, 2013 at 2:43pm Brian Ross wrote on May 25th, 2013 at 1:50pm:
The 'alternative viewpoint' which ISLAM projects onto the world is this; 'It is lawful to either enslave or to murder all persons on this earth, who do not believe as we believe.' Proof of ISLAMIC religious bigotry which is being projected into the world by every person who declares; "I am a moslem! Allah is my god, and Mohammed is his prophet."..... FROM ISLAM'S PRIMARY THEOLOGICAL TEXT ----> "O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)." Koran 9.123 "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...." Koran 9.111 "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. " Koran 9.29 "....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith." Koran 2.98 "....those who reject Allah have no protector." Koran 47.008 v. 8-11 |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Yadda on May 25th, 2013 at 2:53pm Quote:
ISLAM, produces dead bodies. And that is its sole purpose. To kill as many human beings [on behalf of SATAN], as it can, before those persons can choose to search for God, and his righteousness. A spiritual war is being waged, here on earth. Many are lost. |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Brian Ross on May 25th, 2013 at 3:17pm Soren wrote on May 25th, 2013 at 2:36pm:
As would Christianity if it was allowed to, as would any other religion, if was allowed to. Not that long ago, in our non-liberal democracy, Aborigines were being actively genocided, Soren. Any dominant social or religious or "race" will seek to ensure it's domination is complete. Our liberal democracy by ensuring that (nearly) all viewpoints are tolerated and even protected, prevents that domination. You, on the otherhand seem to want to prevent Muslims even from expressing their viewpoint for some reason. That you don't apply the same attitudes to others merely reinforces the point that your views are bigoted. ::) Quote:
We have had Islam in Australia since the arrival of the first fleet (and perhaps even before through Maccassian traders), Soren. Until the advent of mass migration post-war and Multiculturalism, indeed we had a very limited variety of points of view in our society. How old are you? 20 years? 30 years? From my perspective of 50+ years I can remember how sterile and bland Australian society and life was before the advent of Multiculturalism. You'd prefer to return us to that period it would seem. Quote:
You have yet to prove we have a "large number of anti-freedom Muslims in your midst," Soren. That is just your prejudices talking. ::) Quote:
It provides inputs critical of them from some Muslims and reinforces them from others. Criticism is never a bad thing, if based upon valid premises and if accepted and answered, Soren. Quote:
Which is the fundamental doctrine of Islam as well, Soren. ::) As you, yourself point out, the Church saw the rise of secularism and humanism, which are the fundamental basis of modern human and democratic rights as anti-theoretical. They occurred DESPITE the Christian Churches, not because of them. Matthew 7:16 ::) Your have betrayed yet again your ignorance, your prejudice and of course your bigotry and all in a few sentences. Well done! ;D Quote:
Where have I said that, Soren? Erecting strawmen again? ::) Quote:
How Islam invented a bright new world Will you read it though, with an open mind? ::) [/quote] |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Brian Ross on May 25th, 2013 at 3:22pm Yadda wrote on May 25th, 2013 at 2:53pm:
Yet Christians industrialised death, not Muslims, Yadda. ::) Quote:
Only in the imaginations of those that ascribe to their religion to the point where it drives their every waking though, as it does yours, Yadda. It is increasingly obvious you and Moses were minted together.... ::) |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Yadda on May 25th, 2013 at 3:34pm Brian Ross wrote on May 25th, 2013 at 3:17pm:
There were many specific points in Sorens post..... So, before i reply to that lie, please just clarify the specific point for me, that you are referring to. "Which is", what is ? |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Yadda on May 25th, 2013 at 3:43pm Brian Ross wrote on May 25th, 2013 at 3:22pm:
No. Not Christians. But it was the culture that was the child of Christianity, which industrialised death. And that child was a secular society, not primarily a religious society. And that consequence ['industrialised death'] came from the nature of man/men, not from the nature of Christianity, as you deceitfully project. |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Brian Ross on May 25th, 2013 at 3:57pm Yadda wrote on May 25th, 2013 at 3:43pm:
The Germans who did so were overwhelmingly Christian, Yadda. ::) The Christian Churches stood by and allowed it to occur. They did not criticise it, except in general terms. The Vatican was effectively complicit in their deaths. Many Christian clergy actively encouraged it, preaching from their pulpits their anti-Semitic hatreds, which in turn taught their disciples that it was OK to exterminate peoples who were different to them. Why shouldn't Christianity and Christians be condemned for it? Using your logic, guilt by association is OK. So, as a Christian, do you like being held responsible for 10 million lives fed into the ovens? Mmmm? ::) |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Yadda on May 25th, 2013 at 4:00pm Brian Ross wrote on May 25th, 2013 at 3:17pm:
That one ? Well that is a lie. NO EQUALITY BEFORE GOD, #1 "Ye [moslems] are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors." Koran 3.110 NO EQUALITY BEFORE GOD, #2 A non-moslem is not permitted to give evidence against a moslem, in a Sharia court. NO EQUALITY BEFORE GOD, #3 http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1352933495/77#77 Quote:
NO EQUALITY BEFORE GOD, #4 KILLING OF NON-MUSLIMS IS LEGITIMATE "...when we say innocent people, we mean moslems." "....[not accepting ISLAM] is a crime against God." "...If you are a non-moslem, then you are guilty of not believing in God." "...as a moslem....i must have hatred towards everything which is non-ISLAM." "...[moslems] allegiance is always with the moslems, so i will never condemn a moslem for what he does." "...Britain has always been Dar al Harb [the Land of War]" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4 |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Yadda on May 25th, 2013 at 4:12pm Brian Ross wrote on May 25th, 2013 at 3:57pm:
THIS IS MY RESPONSE...... Brian Ross wrote on May 18th, 2013 at 11:09pm:
Still playing your deliberately deceitful game i see, Brian_Ross. You are 1/ trying to project an illegal morality upon Christians, and 2/ presenting a fallacious comparison between the lawful behavior of moslems and what would be the un-lawful behavior of Christians. Everyone knows [except Brian_Ross], that if Christians ever killed their critics, they would be acting against their religion. Whereas, whenever moslems kill their critics, and the critics of their 'religion', they are merely imitating the actions of Mohammed, regarded by moslems as the most virtuous moslem. e.g. Quote:
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1360381351/0#0 Brian_Ross, AGAIN.... Quote:
[/quote] |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Baronvonrort on May 25th, 2013 at 4:46pm Brian Ross wrote on May 25th, 2013 at 3:17pm:
Yes i did and its all bullshit, will you read this with an open mind instead of being blinded by your Islamophila? Quote:
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Soren on May 25th, 2013 at 8:47pm Brian Ross wrote on May 25th, 2013 at 3:57pm:
If that was all true - does that excuse Muslims? |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Brian Ross on May 26th, 2013 at 1:15am Baronvonrort wrote on May 25th, 2013 at 4:46pm:
That wiki is based upon prejudice and hatred, not reality. It has zero credibility. ::) |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Brian Ross on May 26th, 2013 at 1:19am Soren wrote on May 25th, 2013 at 8:47pm:
The innocent, yes. The gulity, no. I've never defended the bad minority of Muslims who commit heinous deeds, Soren. You however keep confusing them with the innocent Muslims who do nothing wrong, except try and get on with their lives. Remember my description of your attitudes as "using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut"? That is what you do when you display your bigotry and blame all Muslims for the crimes that a minority commit. You have no finesse, no subtlety in your arguments, you just blast away and blame all Muslims, no matter how disconnected from events for those events. ::) |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Yadda on May 26th, 2013 at 2:30am Brian Ross wrote on May 26th, 2013 at 1:19am:
Brian_Ross, You refer to some moslems as the innocent moslems ? Your argument is that; Choosing to belong to a murderous cult [when its doctrine of murder, is easily comprehended], confers no guilt [upon all of its members] ? And whether you are going to deny it or not; That is your argument. Your argument is that many members must be counted as innocent, even when it is known that their own membership of that murderous cult, is giving comfort to [some] actual murderers ? e.g. "I'm an innocent moslem! ....Well, my brother murdered that infidel down the street. But it was the infidels fault, for being a infidel. And no! I will not condemn or report my brother. And i am making an evening meal for my brother, right now." Too 'focused' an example ? Not so. ISLAM is recognised by all moslems, as a primary 'familial environment' for the moslem, for every moslem. A moslem, is a moslem. "Muslims are one ummah (community) to the exclusion of all men. Believers are friends of one another to the exclusion of all outsiders." Ishaq:231 AND; YT KILLING OF NON-MUSLIMS IS LEGITIMATE "...when we say innocent people, we mean moslems." "....[not accepting ISLAM] is a crime against God." "...If you are a non-moslem, then you are guilty of not believing in God." "...as a moslem....i must have hatred towards everything which is non-ISLAM." "...[moslems] allegiance is always with the moslems, so i will never condemn a moslem for what he does." "...Britain has always been Dar al Harb [the Land of War]" "...no, i could never condemn a moslem brother, i would never condemn a moslem brother. I will always stand with my moslem brother....whether he is an oppresser or the oppressed." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4iYour argument that some moslems are innocent [members of a death cult!!] is absurd. Of course, a murderer is a murderer. And of course, any person who knowingly gives material comfort to a murderer is complicit in the crime of murder. And every person who chooses to belong to, and to embrace, a religious cult which sanctions the murder of those outside of their group, is complicit, in those murders that have been committed by the other members of that religious cult. |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by moses on May 26th, 2013 at 3:16pm
Everybody will by now have worked out Brian's method of propagating hatred against Christianity, while excusing islamic inhumanities.
He will run every time from the issues of: 1/.muslims who commit atrocities are following their cult (islam) to the very letter. 2/.Christians who commit atrocities are disobeying the teachings of Christ. He will never address these realities in an honest manner. ========================================================================== Who is telling lies allah or muslims? qur'an 14:4; We sent not a messenger except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people, in order to make (things) clear to them. Now Allah leaves straying those whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases: and He is Exalted in power, full of Wisdom. qur'an16:44; (we sent them) with clear signs and books of dark prophecies; and we have sent down unto thee (also) the message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought. qur'an 3:85; If anyone desires a religion other than islam (submission to allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good). qur'an 61:9; he it is who has sent his messenger with the guidance and the religion of the truth, that he may cause it to prevail over all religion, even though the disbelievers are averse qur'an 9:33, It is he who hath sent his messenger with guidance and the religion of truth, to cause it to prevail over all religion, even though the pagans may detest (it). qur'an 48:28; he it is who has sent his messenger with the guidance and the religion of the truth, that he may cause it to prevail over all religion, and allah suffices as a witness. Basically you could put the above verse in a short context : The qur'an been sent so that men can clearly understand it, in order that islam may prevail over all other religions. Now when ever some one points to the evil in the qur'an, muslims and their apologists come up with the excuse: islam and the qur'an have been misinterpreted or mis-translated. So if the qur'an can be misinterpreted or mis-translated, who is lying? islam, muhammad, allah and the qur'an all say the message is clearly explained, perfect and for all mankind. Therefore everytime a muslim / muslim apologist says the qur'an is misinterpreted or mis-translated, he is calling allah a liar. This is a perfect example of the danger islam and muslims pose to the rest of us. islam, allah, muhammad and the qur'an all urge killing people as the method of oppressing opposition in order that **islam may prevail over other religions** When confronted with this truth, muslims and their apologists simply lie saying it has been misinterpreted or mis-translated. So not only are muslims liars, their lies prove the qur'an is a flawed evil book. |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Brian Ross on May 26th, 2013 at 3:54pm Yadda wrote on May 26th, 2013 at 2:30am:
I take it, Yadda after I sifted through your crayon scribbles that you believe there are no innocent Muslims? ::) And you wonder why I believe your arguments are bigoted? :o |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Brian Ross on May 26th, 2013 at 4:51pm moses wrote on May 26th, 2013 at 3:16pm:
Errr, perhaps you've missed the points I've been making Moses about those who deserve condemnation should be condemned. Problem is, you assume all Muslims deserve condemnation despite them having nothing to do with anything worth being condemned. ::) Quote:
So, then care to explain this man's actions, Moses? He claims he is obeying the teachings of Christ. Who am I to disbelieve him? ::) |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Baronvonrort on May 26th, 2013 at 4:56pm Brian Ross wrote on May 26th, 2013 at 1:15am:
You could go and ask the ex muslims at the Council of ex muslims forum for an opinion on wiki islam, you might discover many members there contribute to wiki islam. www.councilofexmuslims.com You have zero credibility,if your forum is so good why do you troll this forum? |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by moses on May 26th, 2013 at 5:33pm
Brian Ross was known as as troll and liar on another board.
Brian Ross wrote Quote:
As I said you run from the issue: 1/.muslims who commit atrocities are following their cult (islam) to the very letter. Therefore I believe yadda answered that perfectly with: Quote:
Quote:
If you are ignorant of the basic / general tenets and doctrine of Christianity, What do you base your opinion on?. It is becoming patently clear, your sentiments regarding the teachings of Christ, are based on willfully ignorant prejudice, bigotry and hatred of Christianity. I'll say it again Brian: you are an apologist for islamic atrocities committed in accordance with the doctrine of islam, allah, muhammad and the qur'an. You don't have the intestinal fortitude to face the issues: 1/.muslims who commit atrocities are following their cult (islam) to the very letter. 2/.Christians who commit atrocities are disobeying the teachings of Christ. |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Yadda on May 26th, 2013 at 5:47pm Brian Ross wrote on May 26th, 2013 at 3:54pm:
Brian_Ross, No. There are no innocent moslems - among those who have come to the age of consent, and yet still declare themselves to be moslems. Who is a moslem ? "Allah is my god, and Mohammed is his prophet." Every moslem knows who Mohammed is, and any moslem can read in ISLAMIC texts what sort of man Mohammed was, and what Mohammed encouraged.... ....Which was the murder of those persons who rejected ISLAM. What Would Muhammad Do? (a checklist of Muhammad's criminal acts) http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/WWMD.htmiAre some moslems, innocent moslems ? No. Why so ? Because every moslem in declaring "I am a moslem! Allah is my god, and Mohammed is his prophet." ...chooses to belong to criminal gang, called 'ISLAM'. CRIMINAL INTENT, IN THE MOSLEM HEART http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1252898491/0#0 Quote:
+++ Brian_Ross accuses me of being a 'bigot'. Am i a bigot, because i tell the truth, about what ISLAM is ??? No. Am i a bigot, because the truth about ISLAM is very UGLY and very disturbing ??? No. The truth about ISLAM is very UGLY, and it is very disturbing. Should i look away, should i turn away, because moslems don't want me to raise my voice about the crimes which they are justifying ? People like myself, blame ISLAM, for the bad conduct of moslems. And, i condemn moslems who choose to associate themselves with an evil philosophy like ISLAM. Why so ? Because a moslem, is a person who chooses to embrace a philosophy [ISLAM], which teaches moslems that it is 'lawful' for moslems, to kill those, who do not believe, as they believe. And all moslems need to be censured, imo. Dictionary; censure = = express severe disapproval of; formally reprove. |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Brian Ross on May 26th, 2013 at 6:13pm Yadda wrote on May 26th, 2013 at 5:47pm:
And you complain when I suggest that you are posting bigotry, Yadda? Thanks for proving my point again for me. ::) |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Yadda on May 26th, 2013 at 7:11pm Brian Ross wrote on May 26th, 2013 at 6:13pm:
LOL In your dreams. Brian_Ross, My own ability, to recognise the criminal nature and character of the 'religious' doctrines of ISLAM, and my willingness to openly declare that criminal nature and character, does not make me a bigot. And your own decision to disparage and denigrate me [and others] with such a description [falsely claiming that i am a bigot, because i say something which is disturbing, but truthful], is a reflection on your own moral and intellectual shortcomings, imo. Quote:
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Brian Ross on May 26th, 2013 at 8:26pm Yadda wrote on May 26th, 2013 at 7:11pm:
You know, you are a dream opponent, Yadda. You type your posts and prove my points for me, time after time. I don't have anything to do, you prove your a bigot with nearly every post! ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Yadda on May 26th, 2013 at 8:53pm Brian Ross wrote on May 26th, 2013 at 8:26pm:
Yes, Brian_Ross, in your reality, you win. You are an intellectual, and a conquering hero for the Dream about it. Dictionary; bigot = = 1 a person who is prejudiced in their views and intolerant of the opinions of others. 2 a person who expresses an opinion/view which does not coincide with the opinion/views of Brian_Ross. |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Brian Ross on May 26th, 2013 at 9:36pm Yadda wrote on May 26th, 2013 at 8:53pm:
Not my reality, Yadda. I don't claim to own all of creation. You may live inside your head (I suspect you do) but I live out in the real world, every day. ::) |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Yadda on May 27th, 2013 at 9:22am Brian Ross wrote on May 26th, 2013 at 9:36pm:
No you don't. No one who refuses to confront You [and many others] choose to NOT confront truth. It is our choices that define our reality, brian, .....not the 'world', that we imagine that we live in. Soren wrote on May 26th, 2013 at 10:15pm:
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Yadda on May 27th, 2013 at 9:36am Yadda wrote on May 27th, 2013 at 9:22am:
What we believe, determines how we [will] act. Q. What do moslems believe ? A. Moslems believe that it is 'lawful', to kill those, who do not believe, as they believe. That is what ISLAM teaches to them [moslems]. THIS IS A TRUTH, THIS IS A REALITY.... Quote:
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Chimp_Logic on May 27th, 2013 at 11:21am
The Koran is essentially a direct derivative of the Old Testament - just like the Torah is.
I notice that there are posters in here that prefer to not acknowledge this fact - NOR cite the barbarism that underpins the Talmud. I wonder who reads an believes in the Talmud? Does anybody in here know? |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Yadda on May 27th, 2013 at 12:42pm Chimp_Logic wrote on May 27th, 2013 at 11:21am:
Chimp, I direct you to post #5, in this thread. There, are posted comparison verses from both the Koran and the Torah - relating to how to treat 'unbelievers'/strangers. Quote:
The Talmud is from men, not from God. |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by moses on Jun 10th, 2013 at 10:28am Quote:
All of the above verses teach that allah deliberately stops people from understanding. Why does he do this? satan is supposed to be the deceiver, so the qur'an is teaching that allah is actually satan Quote:
Again allah purposely causes people to sin. Proof positive that allah is actually satan Quote:
Who is doing whose work here? why are allah and satan both doing the same thing? The rationale of islam is; allah and satan cause one set of people to be unbelievers, allah then bestows on his followers (muslims) the right to thieve, rape, torture, and mass murder these sinners. (in the right conditions) Why ? islam is truly an evil entity. |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by moses on Jun 17th, 2013 at 6:11pm Quote:
muslims and their apologists often quote the above line. However, how many different verses in the quran actually use these words, in a passive context? qur'an 5.32 in part says: if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people Now taking the line as being the whole, it would seem that qur'an 5;32 is indeed a verse of peace and spirituality. However, what does 5:32 actually say? Quote:
qur'an 5:32 is saying muslims told the Jews:(if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people) 5:32 then goes on to say that after the muslim messengers gave this sign to the Jews, they kept committing excesses in the land. To sum up 5:32 teach that muslim slaughter of people is quiet ok if they are committing a mischief in the land. It then accuses the Jews of being people who are perpetrating excesses in the land. Now read on: qur'an 5.33 The punishment of those who wage war against allah and his messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter; Verses 5:32 and 5:33 are not teaching peace and love, they advocate that it is the sacred duty of muslims to commit human rights atrocities against non muslims who reject allah and muhammad, as the bearers of true religion. Denying allah and muhammad is spreading mischief through the land. Now consider: A crucial distinction in islamic theology is the difference between dar al-harb and dar al-islam. To put it simply, dar al-harb (territory of war or chaos) is the name for the regions where islam does not dominate, where allah's will is not observed, it is rejected, and therefore where continuing mischief is the norm. By contrast, dar al-islam (territory of peace) is the name for those territories where Islam does dominate, where submission to allah is observed. So dedicated muslims regard, qur'an 5:32 & 5:33 as doctrinal permission for them to kill non muslims. Because, as a result of dar al-harb (territory of war or chaos), the non muslims are making "mischief in the Earth," by scorning allah / islam. |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by True Colours on Aug 6th, 2013 at 6:33am Yadda wrote on Jan 19th, 2011 at 10:22am:
Yes we dare because it is true! |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by True Colours on Aug 7th, 2013 at 8:11am Yadda wrote on Jan 19th, 2011 at 10:22am:
Correct. Yadda wrote on Jan 19th, 2011 at 10:22am:
Correct Yadda wrote on Jan 19th, 2011 at 10:22am:
Correct. Yadda wrote on Jan 19th, 2011 at 10:22am:
Incorrect. Yadda wrote on Jan 19th, 2011 at 10:22am:
No. Yadda wrote on Jan 19th, 2011 at 10:22am:
An incorrect translation. A better translation would read thus: Quote:
What does Islam hold to be the Torah and the Gospel? When Christians or Jews think of these two terms, they think of some kind of book written on paper. Whereas Islam holds these to be the original words spoken by Moses and Jesus, not necessarily what is found in some book. What came out of Moses' mouth was the Torah, what has been written down is not the Torah - at least not in its original unadulterated form. When the Quran talks about the Torah it is talking about what cam out of Moses' mouth. The same is so for the Jesus and the Gospel. Yadda wrote on Jan 19th, 2011 at 10:22am:
Incomplete and inaccurate translation. A more accurate translation is this: Quote:
It means the Quran is the unadulterated revelation from which truth and falsehood can be known in the books of Jews and Christians |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Yadda on Aug 7th, 2013 at 9:23am True Colours wrote on Aug 7th, 2013 at 8:11am:
True_Colours, ISLAMIC texts are a witness, that you are mistaken/ignorant on this matter. ISLAMIC texts are a witness, that Mohammed venerated a book/document - THE TORAH that existed in Mohammed's age. "A group of Jews came and invited the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) to Quff. So he visited them in their school. They said: AbulQasim, one of our men has committed fornication with a woman; so pronounce judgment upon them. They placed a cushion for the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) who sat on it and said: Bring the Torah. It was then brought. He then withdrew the cushion from beneath him and placed the Torah on it saying: I believed in thee and in Him Who revealed thee." hadith/abudawud/ #038.4434 i.e. The Hadith declares, that Mohammed revered a clearly UNCORRUPTED Torah, which Mohammed held in his hands. n.b. "....I [Mohammed] believed in thee [the Torah] and in Him Who revealed thee. " see also, hadith/bukhari/ #008.082.809 hadith/muwatta/ #041.41.1.1i Quote:
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by True Colours on Aug 7th, 2013 at 11:46am Yadda wrote on Aug 7th, 2013 at 9:23am:
The hadeeth is considered fabricated. This report is not considered by Islamic scholars to be authentic because one of the reporters in its transmission, Hisham ibn Sa'd, has narratives which are considered disturbed and corrupted according to many famous hadith critics like Ibn Hanbal, Ibn Ma'een, Abu Hatem, an-Nisa'ee, Ibn Sa'd, Ibn 'Adii, al-Madini, al-Hakim, al-'Aqili, Ibn Habban and others. Quote:
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Yadda on Aug 7th, 2013 at 11:56am True Colours wrote on Aug 7th, 2013 at 11:46am:
True_Colours, Well, well, well, i am totally surprised - that the ISLAMIC texts which i refer to, to prove my argument, are deemed [by moslems] to be 'fabricated'. The ISLAMIC texts which i refer to. Yes, i am totally surprised!!!! :PiAnd next True_Colours, you are going to tell me, that that bright thing in the sky, ....is the sun. Right ? |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Yadda on Aug 7th, 2013 at 12:32pm Yadda wrote on Aug 7th, 2013 at 11:56am:
Surprise, surprise! Moslem scholars have no difficulty in making an adjudication upon the contents of some old obscure Hadith, .....and yet, moslem scholars refuse to acknowledge the implications of the Sana'a mosque manuscripts, upon the moslem claims regarding the integrity of the Koran itself. The truth is that the discovery of the Sana'a mosque manuscripts, irrefutably proves that the Koran itself is NOT the 'inerrant' manuscript [which moslems claim and insist, that it is]. The truth is that the the discovery, and the EXAMINATION, of the Sana'a mosque manuscripts, proves that the 'inerrant' Koran is [without doubt] a fabricated document. And the response from the worldwide moslem community ? Total denial, ....and their refusal to acknowledge what is TRUE, in regards to those Sana'a mosque manuscripts. Surprise, surprise! Google; Quranic Manuscripts Sana Quote:
http://www.islam-watch.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=46 |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Yadda on Jan 1st, 2014 at 11:35am
ANOTHER ISSUE WITH THE INERRANT KORAN....
Moslems are certain, that their holy scriptures, the Koran, are inerrant. But how can moslems be so certain ? Easy. Because, in the inerrant Koran, Allah declares that the Koran is protected, by HIM, the all powerful creator of the universe. And watch how Allah himself, rebukes the doubters of the integrity of his 'Message' [i.e. the Koran]... "They say: "O thou to whom the Message is being revealed! truly thou art mad (or possessed)! "Why bringest thou not angels to us if it be that thou hast the Truth?" We send not the angels down except for just cause: if they came (to the ungodly), behold! no respite would they have! We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption)." Koran 15.6-9 And yet, other authentic ISLAMIC texts declare, that a goat ate a part of the Koran, before that part of the Koran could be added to the main body of that document. ??? Quote:
Quote:
cited... http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Stoning So what does that mean ??? Is Allah a fibber, when Allah claims to be the creator of the universe, and, and, the protector of the integrity of the Koran ? [Koran 15.9] Allah, the master of all moslems, and the creator of the universe ? ??? Or, is Allah just a powerless, impotent, and insignificant little desert god, from the sand dunes of Saudi Arabia ? ??? Allah = = the powerless, impotent god. ??? Allah claims that HE, himself [the all powerful creator of the universe], is the protector of the integrity of the Koran. But to me, it seems to be apparent, that Allah, is the impotent god, the god who can not prevent his revealed scripture from being consumed by a hungry goat. Dictionary; apparent = = 1 readily perceived or understood; obvious. 2 seeming real or true. n.b. But nothing is apparent, to a moslem. How Does Allah Protect Quran and Islam? http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-about-islam/faith-and-worship/quran-and-scriptures/451694-how-does-allah-protect-quran-and-islam.html?Scriptures= Google; quran, we will assuredly guard it from corruption Another God. Google; a different god allah Google; allah another god Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. He [the all powerful creator of the universe] is talking about, Israel, and the Jews. |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Yadda on Jan 1st, 2014 at 11:45am How Does Allah Protect Quran and Islam? http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-about-islam/faith-and-worship/quran-and-scriptures/451694-how-does-allah-protect-quran-and-islam.html?Scriptures= Quote:
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by moses on Jan 1st, 2014 at 6:12pm
allah created man perfect?
It is a cold hard fact that islamic inbreeding has produced an innumerable number of muslims with genetical impairments, of the most severe kind, psychologically and physically. consider the following words of allah: qur'an 95:4 "We have indeed created man in the 'best of moulds'." qur'an 23:14 "Then we made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot we made a lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be allah, the 'best of all creators!' " qur'an 27:88 Thou seest the mountains and thinkest them firmly fixed: but they shall pass away as the clouds pass away: (such is) the artistry of allah, who disposes of all things in perfect order: for he is well acquainted with all that ye do. qur'an 32:7 he who has made everything which he has created most good: he began the creation of man with (nothing more than) clay, qur'an 40:64 It is allah Who has made for you the earth as a resting place, and the sky as a canopy, and has given you shape- and made your shapes beautiful,- and has provided for you sustenance, of things pure and good;- such is allah your lord. So glory to allah, the lord of the worlds! qur'an 64:3 he has created the heavens and the earth in just proportions, and has given you shape, and made your shapes beautiful: and to him is the final goal. Seems the old moon god allah / qur'an got it all wrong, swathes of muslims are most certainly born with horrific mental and physical disabilities. Why? Because they follow allah / muhammad and inbreed. |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Stratos on Jan 1st, 2014 at 6:37pm moses wrote on Jan 1st, 2014 at 6:12pm:
have you got a source for that? |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Yadda on Jan 1st, 2014 at 6:45pm Stratos wrote on Jan 1st, 2014 at 6:37pm:
Try; Google; islamic inbreeding, genetic impairments There are a few hits. |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by moses on Jan 1st, 2014 at 9:33pm |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Pete Waldo on Jan 2nd, 2014 at 1:02am Stratos wrote on Jan 1st, 2014 at 6:37pm:
Like other evil in the world, of course Muhammad is the initial source: Sura 33.50 "O prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom God, has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts..." His followers are doing 9 year olds unto this day, as Muhammad did too. From NY Times: nytimes.com/2003/05/01/world/saudi-arabia-awakes-to-the-perils-of-inbreeding.html?pagewanted=1 "Saudi Arabia Awakes to the Perils of Inbreeding By SARAH KERSHAW Published: May 1, 2003 RIYADH, Saudi Arabia, April 24— When she was 17, marrying age for a Saudi girl, Salha al-Hefthi was presented with a husband. She was lucky, her parents told her when they planned the wedding, that she was to marry such a good man, a man from her own tribe, a man who would care for their children and make a good living. He was the son of her father's brother -- her first cousin -- and everyone, including the bride, agreed that ''a first cousin was a first choice,'' she said. The couple had two healthy boys, now 22 and 20, but their third child, a girl, was born with spinal muscular atrophy, a crippling and usually fatal disease that was carried in the genes of both parents. Their fourth, sixth and seventh children were also born with the disorder. Spinal muscular atrophy and the gene that causes it, along with several other serious genetic disorders, are common in Saudi Arabia, where women have an average of six children and where in some regions more than half of the marriages are between close relatives. Across the Arab world today an average of 45 percent of married couples are related, according to Dr. Nadia Sakati, a pediatrician and senior consultant for the genetics research center at King Faisal Specialist Hospital in Riyadh. In some parts of Saudi Arabia, particularly in the south, where Mrs. Hefthi was raised, the rate of marriage among blood relatives ranges from 55 to 70 percent, among the highest rates in the world, according to the Saudi government. Widespread inbreeding in Saudi Arabia has produced several genetic disorders, Saudi public health officials said, including the blood diseases of thalassemia, a potentially fatal hemoglobin deficiency, and sickle cell anemia. Spinal muscular atrophy and diabetes are also common, especially in the regions with the longest traditions of marriage between relatives. Dr. Sakati said she had also found links between inbreeding and deafness and muteness." The joys of Islam! Very informative mainstream news video: dailymotion.com/video/xx9x9d_dispatches-when-cousins-marry-360p-1-4_lifestyle "Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 17:01:37 -0400 Nicolai Sennels is a Danish psychologist who has done extensive research into a little-known problem in the Muslim world: the disastrous results of Muslim inbreeding brought about by the marriage of first-cousins. This practice, which has been prohibited in the Judeo-Christian tradition since the days of Moses, was sanctioned by Muhammad and has been going on now for 50 generations (1,400 years) in the Muslim world. According to Sennels, close to half of all Muslims in the world are inbred. In Pakistan, the numbers approach 70%. Even in England, more than half of Pakistani immigrants are married to their first cousins, and in Denmark the number of inbred Pakistani immigrants is around 40%. The numbers are equally devastating in other important Muslim countries: 67% in Saudi Arabia, 64% in Jordan and Kuwait, 63% in Sudan, 60% in Iraq, and 54% in the United Arab Emirates and Qatar. According to the BBC, this Pakistani, Muslim-inspired inbreeding is thought to explain the probability that a British Pakistani family is more than 13 times as likely to have children with recessive genetic disorders. While Pakistanis are responsible for three percent of the births in the UK, they account for 33% of children with genetic birth defects. The risk of what are called autosomal recessive disorders such as cystic fibrosis and spinal muscular atrophy is 18 times higher and the risk of death due to malformations is 10 times higher. Lowered intellectual capacity is another devastating consequence of Muslim marriage patterns. According to Sennels, research shows that children of consanguinous marriages lose 10-16 points off their IQ and that social abilities develop much slower in inbred babies. The risk of having an IQ lower than 70, the official demarcation for being classified as “retarded,” increases by an astonishing 400 percent among children of cousin marriages. Sennels says that “the ability to enjoy and produce knowledge and abstract thinking is simply lower in the Islamic world.” He points out that the Arab world translates just 330 books every year, about 20% of what Greece alone does. In the last 1,200 years years of Islam, just 100,000 books have been translated into Arabic, about what Spain does in a single year. Seven out of 10 Turks have never even read a book. |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Pete Waldo on Jan 2nd, 2014 at 1:30am Yadda wrote on Jan 19th, 2011 at 10:22am:
Yet even Muhammad knew he had made such a contradictory mess of his "revelations" over the short span of just 23 years, he had to institute a doctrine of abrogation, with a whopping 71 out of only 114 surahs subject to abrogation. Quran sura 2:106 (Yusuf Ali) None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things? Typical of Muhammad and his followers. Denying they are doing something even while they are in the act of doing it, that is when they are not pointing the finger at others, regarding that of which Islam is guilty. beholdthebeast.com/abrogation_quran.htm A little more honest translation from Asad: Surah 2:106 (Asad) Any message which, We annul or consign to oblivion We replace with a better or a similar one. Dost thou not know that God has the power to will anything? Indeed there was such a cacophony of locals that recognized what a contradictory mess he made of the plundered and poorly plagiarized fables and such, that Muhammad had to come up with yet more "revelations" to answer to those that could easily see the truth: Surah 16:101 When We substitute one revelation for another, and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages), they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not. Including one specifically regarding his good friend and ex"Christian" Jabr, who he spent so many long hours with. So often did Muhammad receive a "revelation" right after visiting Jabr, that the locals comically nicknamed Jabr "holy spirit". Sura 16.103 We know indeed that they say, "It is a man that teaches him." The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear. brotherpete.com/quran_inspiration.htm Even more amusingly: " en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerd_R._Puin Gerd Rüdiger Puin (born 1940) is a German scholar and an authority on Qur'anic historical orthography, the study and scholarly interpretation of ancient manuscripts. He is also a specialist in Arabic paleography. He was a lecturer of Arabic at Saarland University, in Saarbrücken Germany. Gerd R Puin photo of one of his Sana'a Qur'an parchments, showing layered revisions to the Qu'ran upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a7/SanaaQuoranDoubleVersions.jpg/350px-SanaaQuoranDoubleVersions.jpg Gerd Puin was the head of a restoration project, commissioned by the Yemeni government, which spent a significant amount of time examining the ancient Qur'anic manuscripts discovered in Sana'a, Yemen, in 1972, in order to find criteria for systematically cataloging them. According to writer Toby Lester, his examination revealed "unconventional verse orderings, minor textual variations, and rare styles of orthography and artistic embellishment."[1] The scriptures were written in the early Hijazi Arabic script, matching the pieces of the earliest Qur'ans known to exist. Some of the papyrus on which the text appears shows clear signs of earlier use, being that previous, washed-off writings are also visible on it. In 2008 and 2009 Dr Elisabeth Puin published detailed results of the analysis of Sanaa manuscript DAM (dar al-makhtutat) 01.27-1 proving that the text was still in flux in the time span between the scriptio inferior and the scriptio superior of the palimpsest (Ein Frueher Koranpalimpsest aus San'a', part 1 in Schlaglichter 2008, part 2 in Vom Koran zum Islam 2009, both ed. Markus Gross and Karl-Heinz Ohlig, Verlag Hans Schiler Berlin)." "Assessment of the Qur'an In the 1999 Atlantic Monthly article referenced below, Gerd Puin is quoted as saying that:[1] My idea is that the Koran is a kind of cocktail of texts that were not all understood even at the time of Muhammad. Many of them may even be a hundred years older than Islam itself. Even within the Islamic traditions there is a huge body of contradictory information, including a significant Christian substrate; one can derive a whole Islamic anti-history from them if one wants. The Qur’an claims for itself that it is ‘mubeen,’ or clear, but if you look at it, you will notice that every fifth sentence or so simply doesn’t make sense. Many Muslims will tell you otherwise, of course, but the fact is that a fifth of the Qur’anic text is just incomprehensible. This is what has caused the traditional anxiety regarding translation. If the Qur’an is not comprehensible, if it can’t even be understood in Arabic, then it’s not translatable into any language. That is why Muslims are afraid. Since the Qur’an claims repeatedly to be clear but is not—there is an obvious and serious contradiction. Something else must be going on." |
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Title: Re: The inerrant Koran??? Post by Pete Waldo on Feb 15th, 2014 at 10:46pm
Something that may not have been discussed enough on this thread is the fact that the Arabic language itself did not exist prior to the Christian era. There is no evidence of a written form prior to the 300 AD. It was virtually unknown until spread by the sword of Muhammadan imperialistic conquest and subjugation of formerly free people.
The oldest Quran mentioned a few posts back is penned in Hijazi Arabic script. It is far different than the Qurans of today, particularly since about 1 out of every 5 verses in the oldest Quran simply don't make sense (not that they make much more sense today!). Here is one of its pages that has been washed and written over indicating that it was still in a state of flux. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerd_R._Puin Far from being an ancient language, Arabic is an Eastern African tongue that arrived in about 300 AD, without a history prior to that time. Indeed it having developed in East Africa makes perfect sense when we consider that the ancestors of Muhammad's tribe the Quraish, had migrated across the strait from Ethiopia to Yemen (not Iishmaelites but perhaps Cushites or Hamites), and then in around the 4th century AD migrated from Yemen to settle Mecca. http://www.soyouwanna.com/history-arabic-language-1143.html "Prior to the revelation to the prophet Mohammad and the subsequent spread of Arabic as the language of the new religion of Islam, Arabic paled as a linguistic power in comparison to Latin, Greek and other languages of the time." "Like all other Semitic languages, Arabic is the descendant of a so-called "Proto-Semitic" language, which is currently believed to have developed in East Africa and which never evolved in a written form. Arabic and Amharic, the two most recent Semitic languages, both arose in the mid-300s." http://www.vistawide.com/arabic/arabic.htm "Arabic, which was originally a minor language of the Arabian Peninsula, began to spread in the 7th century with the rise of Islam. Apart from being the native language of over 200 million speakers located primarily in Northern Africa and throughout the Middle East, Arabic is therefore also the liturgical language of the vast population of Muslims around the world." http://www.indiana.edu/~arabic/arabic_history.htm "The rise of Arabic to the status of a major world language is inextricably intertwined with the rise of Islam as a major world religion. Before the appearance of Islam, Arabic was a minor member of the southern branch of the Semitic language family, used by a small number of largely nomadic tribes in the Arabian peninsula, with an extremely poorly documented textual history." http://www.alhewar.com/habeeb_salloum_arabic_language.htm "The Arabic language is the youngest of Semitic idioms which include Aramaic, the Assyro-Babylonian tongues, Ethiopic, Hebrew and South Arabic like Sabean and Himyaritic." Simply Google it if you have been deluded into believing that Arabic is an ancient language. In other words, as with all things Islamic, any claims of Arabic being an ancient language are predictably at dire odds to historical reality. In order to declare that "Allah" is the name of the God of the scriptures, rather than the Quraish pagans most powerful deity, Muhammad's followers sometimes try to make the claim that Arabic is an ancient language and some even go as far as to suggest that it was the language of the prophets and patriarchs. We can see from the evidence that is simply not true. However Muhammad's own pagan polytheist father was named "Abdullah" or "slave of Allah" - that is, slave of one of the Quraish pagan deities - long before Muhammad's stand-alone 7th century religious invention arose out of the sands of the SW Arabian desert. The name of the one true God of the scriptures is YHWH, or Yahweh, as it occurs nearly 7,000 times in scripture. http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/the_name_allah.htm The good Lord is offering every opportunity for the followers of THE false prophet Muhammad to overcome his ANTICHRIST ANTI-religion. That chance won't last forever, let alone that you could die this very day, DISbelieving the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel, while DENYING and blaspheming the Son of God. http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/islam_is_antichrist.htm |
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