Australian Politics Forum

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Indonesia cleric Abu Bakar Bashir tells court that arms training is God's will

INDONESIAN cleric Abu Bakar Bashir told a court Thursday that Muslims have a religious duty to take up arms against non-believers, as he offered his first defence against terrorism charges.

http://www.news.com.au/world/indonesia-cleric-abu-bakar-bashir-tells-court-that-arms-training-is-gods-will/story-e6frfkyi-1226011552659

Yet another misunderstander of islam. Why hasn't the qur'an been banned if it can be twisted so much?

salad in wrote on Feb 24^th, 2011 at 7:41pm:

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Yet another misunderstander of islam. Why hasn't the qur'an been banned if it can be twisted so much?

ACCORDING TO ALL GOOD [all devout] MOSLEMS;
The meaning which the Koran conveyes in its words, HAS NOT BEEN 'TWISTED'.
The words of Allah [i.e. every good moslem considers that every word of the Koran, to be Allah's words], guide moslems in how to follow their religion.
And all good [devout] moslems consider the Koran to be absolutely inerrant [i.e. without error].

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These [below] are examples of the calming platitudes [the outright lies!] which have come from the lips of our 'Western' leaders in recent years,

President's Greeting for Ramadan - November 5, 2002
"I send greetings to Muslims in the United States......Islam is a peace-loving faith....."
- President G W Bush

October 11, 2002
"Islam is a faith that brings comfort to people. It inspires them to lead lives based on honesty, and justice, and compassion."
- President G W Bush

September 10, 2002
"Islam is a faith that brings comfort to a billion people around the world. It's a faith that has made brothers and sisters of every race. It's a faith based upon love, not hate."
- President G W Bush

November 15, 2001
"The Islam that we know is a faith devoted to the worship of one God, as revealed through The Holy Qur'an. It teaches the value and the importance of charity, mercy, and peace."
- President G W Bush

September 28, 2001
"[I know] that the Muslim faith is based upon peace and love and compassion."
- President G W Bush

Tony Blair claims to have read the Koran twice, and to have derived 'comfort' from it.
Google,
"read through the Koran twice" "Tony Blair"

Tony Blair - "Islam is a peaceful faith.",
....and TB claims that ISLAMIC inspired violence, "has nothing to do with Islam,".

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Would you buy a used car from G W Bush, OR, from Tony Blair ???

Today the names [of many of our leaders] have changed, but today, the lies remain the same.

Many of us in the 'West', and especially our political leaders, have lost the ability to discern between good and evil, between truth and falsehood.

No-one, no 'leading' politician, speaks the truth.

Our politicians, our leaders, are all self serving liars, deceivers.

And it will be a fatal [spiritual] failing, for their people, the citizens of the world.

God's message to mankind, has ALWAYS been, that [to please our God] we should discern between good, and evil, and that we should make the effort to separate 'the precious from the vile'.

And the suggestion, in my reading of God's word is, that that, is exactly, what God is doing with us, mankind, today.

Our God, in his own way, in these days, is separating 'the precious from the vile', in the pool of mankind.

The God of Israel has drawn a line in the sand, in this world.

The God of Israel is separating those who love truth, from those who love lies and unrighteousness.

Matthew 13:13
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

1 John 2:15
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Isaiah 48:10
Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.

Daniel 12:10
Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Revelation 21:7
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Quote:

Yet another misunderstander of islam. Why hasn't the qur'an been banned if it can be twisted so much?

How is it being twisted?

Like any just belief, it permits it's adherents to defend themselves against wanton aggressors.

I would've thought that'd be a basic human right no? In fact I'm sure the U.N says something along those lines.

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 24^th, 2011 at 10:03pm:

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Yet another misunderstander of islam. Why hasn't the qur'an been banned if it can be twisted so much?

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...Muslims have a religious duty to take up arms against non-believers...

Have you got a gun stored on your property ready to use it against those who are non-believers? Are Falun Gongers also ready to shoot? What about Janes, are they armed and ready?

salad in wrote on Feb 24^th, 2011 at 7:41pm:

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Yet another misunderstander of islam. Why hasn't the qur'an been banned if it can be twisted so much?

Who is there with the authority TO ban it???? Or to ban loonies from misusing or misquoting it??...There's really no central or 'top' authority in Islam is there??...There's no equivalent to the pope or 'council of imans' with the final say....

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 25^th, 2011 at 1:57pm:

salad in wrote on Feb 24^th, 2011 at 7:41pm:

Quote:

Yet another misunderstander of islam. Why hasn't the qur'an been banned if it can be twisted so much?

What authority did the pope have over the IRA? Were the numerous bombings by the IRA in the 80's done with tacit papal support???

Lestat wrote on Feb 25^th, 2011 at 2:14pm:

What authority did the pope have over the IRA? Were the numerous bombings by the IRA in the 80's done with tacit papal support???

If you know please inform us.

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Have you got a gun stored on your property ready to use it against those who are non-believers? Are Falun Gongers also ready to shoot? What about Janes, are they armed and ready?

As I am not being fought against, what need would I have for it?

Do you not believe someone who's being attacked has a right to defend themselves?

I mentioned Abu Bakar Ba’asyir to an Indonesian friend and the fact that he was being tried. His reaction was "about time". By far the majority of Indonesians feel this way.

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I mentioned Abu Bakar Ba’asyir to an Indonesian friend and the fact that he was being tried. His reaction was "about time". By far the majority of Indonesians feel this way.

Well if your _one_ friend feels that way, then I can see how you'd understand that to mean the majority do. Come on muso, you're doing yourself a little injustice with that one.

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 25^th, 2011 at 10:58pm:

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I mentioned Abu Bakar Ba’asyir to an Indonesian friend and the fact that he was being tried. His reaction was "about time". By far the majority of Indonesians feel this way.

Well if your _one_ friend feels that way, then I can see how you'd understand that to mean the majority do. Come on muso, you're doing yourself a little injustice with that one.

LOL, I have more than one friend from Indonesia, and I spent some time over there at one stage. Do you think the majority welcome terrorism?

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Do you think the majority welcome terrorism?

No, I think they hate terrorism. Terrorism is wicked, hence the Islamic stance that repelling terrorist invaders and occupiers is a noble act.

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 26^th, 2011 at 6:13am:

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Do you think the majority welcome terrorism?

No, I think they hate terrorism. Terrorism is wicked, hence the Islamic stance that repelling terrorist invaders and occupiers is a noble act.

If I called you an idiot, I'd be flaunting the site rules, so I won't. You are not doing the public perception of Islam any good by remarks such as this. I'm not surprised that some people on this board take such an anti Islamic stance.

The majority of Muslims in Australia would much rather just get on with life. As a Johnny come lately, your extreme views do not reflect those of the average Muslim in any way shape or form, and people need to be aware of that.

So let me get this right...

You think that defending your home against invaders and occupiers is idiotic?

Would this stance of yours extend to Australians who defended Australia when the Japanese for instance invaded? Or for any future invasion that might occur?

And instead of recognising the anti-Islamic loons for what they are, you instead want to blame my rational thinking for their hate-filled distorted views?

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 25^th, 2011 at 9:40pm:

As I am not being fought against, what need would I have for it?

Do you not believe someone who's being attacked has a right to defend themselves?

Who is attacking Indonesian muslims? Muso says many Indonesian muslims don't believe they are under attack. Name the enemy of Bashir so that we might all know.

Well Australia did invade Indonesia and carve out a new oil rich country... Perhaps that was it?

I'm pretty sure that if Indonesia invaded Australia, and carved out a mineral rich part of the NT or WA, there'd be plenty of fair dinkum Aussies lining up to much more than Bashir's fiery kind of talking... Never mind that though, just continue peddling your extremely one sided propaganda.

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 26^th, 2011 at 9:31am:

Well Australia did invade Indonesia and carve out a new oil rich country... Perhaps that was it?

When?

A large number of Indonesians object to outside interference, but that's about it. It's not much different to Australian views of the Americans when one of their figures occasionally criticises Australia.

Australian Politics Forum
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl Member Run Boards >> Islam >> Bashir cites the owner's manual http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1298540498 Message started by salad in on Feb 24^th, 2011 at 7:41pm