NSW Voters take notice, this is what happens when the Hard Right has absolute control.

In NZ, the Hard Right wanted to mine National Parks

In Vic, they want cattle destroying the National Parks.


Alps already damaged by grazing - Burke

here has already been much damage caused six weeks into a cattle grazing trial in Victoria's high country, the federal government says.

Canberra wants the Victorian government to scrap the trial but Premier Ted Baillieu has vowed to push ahead.

Federal Environment Minister Tony Burke said he found extensive damage to the state's Alpine National Park during a tour on Friday.
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He said he was still investigating whether the Victorian government had broken federal law when it reintroduced 400 cattle to the park six weeks ago.

But he said the move breached an environmental principle.

"Using a national park as a farm is wrong, simple as that," he told reporters on-site at the park.

"You can see already in just a few weeks the damage that's being done.

"There's a separate question as to whether or not it breaches federal law. That's something I need to take further advice on from the department - as to whether federal law is breached."

The state government is trialling cattle grazing as a tool for bushfire fuel reduction in the high country.

Four hundred cows were introduced to six sites across the park.

Mr Burke said the Victorian government was yet to provide any information to the federal Environment Department which supported the scientific merit of the trial.

"My department has been asking for information about this so-called scientific grazing for some time.

"The information that's come to us so far hasn't shown any evidence that they even did a base-line study as to what the situation was before the cattle were introduced."

Mr Baillieu said he was confident the grazing was not damaging the national park.

"Our mission is to reduce the fuel load in bushfire prone areas and strategic grazing has been used before and we want to have that capacity available to us in the future and this project will proceed with that in mind," he told reporters on Friday.

The Mountain Cattlemens Association president Mark Coleman questioned the value of Mr Burke's day-trip to the national park.

"What we've seen in past is people coming up for five minutes," he said.

"You've got to see the environment over a long period of time to make a judgment."

Melbourne Greens MP Adam Bandt plans to introduce a bill to ban alpine grazing to federal parliament next week.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/alps-already-damaged-by-grazing--burke-20110225-1b8fa.html

We may as well write off our national parks in NSW - it's not only the Libs, but Labor did a deal with the Shooters Party to allow them to shoot native animals in our parks in exchange for their vote to sell the State Lotteries.

Both parties are hell bent on destroying what little nature we have left. Labor has given approval for much of the state to remain open for longwall coal mining & coal and gas exploration, which is a whole lot more destructive than a bunch of cattle.

Liberal and Labor aren't working for us - they're working for the multinationals.

Coal & gas exploration hasn't hit Victoria in the same way it has NSW & Queensland - so that's something for the state to look forward to also.

  Grazing causes blazing: research
Wed Feb 9, 2011


http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200910/r452881_2208206.jpg



Research by the University of Tasmania has questioned the widely-held view that grazing on native grasslands reduces the risk of wildfire.

Mountain grazing has been a controversial issue in Victoria and Tasmania, where environmentalists have argued that livestock wreck sensitive wilderness areas.

Graziers argue their animals remove fuel that would support fires.

But Professor James Kirkpatrick says the findings of his research around Tasmania suggest that is not always true.

"If you've got vegetation that has tussock grasses, the animals actually eat out the green shoots and make the vegetation much more flammable, so in that particular case - which is a very widespread one both in Victoria and in the drier parts of Tasmania - grazing actually causes blazing," he said.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/02/09/3133946.htm?section=justin

if they are only wanting to reduce the fuel load in the parks..

[dead if you do and dead if you dont.. conundrum..]

then how about every week end the greenies don their gloves and grab their trimmers and blowers and spend their weekends in the national parks..cleaning up....

you know I saw a group doing just that in Wellington NZ Botanical Gardens.. hand digging out the weeds..

marvelous  idea.. we all know everyone would sign up dont we.

I mean if we dont do anything it wil burn anyway.thats natures way of cleaning up.

In Europe it is routine for national parks to have agricultural uses.  Because Europe is very densely populated and has a long tradition of exploitative stewardship, this is not particularly controversial.

I don't see anything particularly wrong with grazing in national parks, provided it is properly managed so it doesn't simply strip grasslands of top soil.  Properly managed grazing actually improves the health of the grass and increases top soil levels.  This shouldn't be surprising to anyone with a lawn, as we all know that frequent mowing improves the health of the lawn.

That said, I'm sure the liberal party has no intentions to integrate grazing into some sort of permaculture framework that improves the health of the land while allowing for economic exploitation.  They worship at the altar of gross domestic product growth and simply want to facilitate refined, sedentary piracy.

Let's not KID ourselves ...
The reason behind this bogus "scientific trial" was ALWAYS clear



AUSTRALIA'S scientific community has condemned the Baillieu government's decision to return cattle grazing to the Alpine National Park under the banner of research.

In a letter to Environment Minister Ryan Smith, 125 scientists - including some of Australia's top experts in ecology, zoology, fire regimes, wetlands and threatened species - have called for the trials to be postponed. The scientists say the trials, designed to test whether grazing reduces bushfire, lack scientific integrity and warn that the government has potentially broken federal environment law.

Concern over the trials, which this month entailed 400 cattle being returned to the sensitive alpine environment, has spread to the highest reaches of the scientific community.

In an unusual move, the conservative Australian Academy of Science, a fellowship of the nation's most eminent scientists, has confirmed it is ''taking an interest'' in the issue.

The letter to Mr Smith was signed by 11 professors and nine associate professors.

The Bracks Labor government removed cattle from the national park in 2005 after an Alpine Grazing Taskforce found cattle damaged the environment and had no influence over fire behaviour.

A peer-reviewed CSIRO study in 2006 also found there were no scientific grounds that cattle grazing reduced fire risk. The government, however, now says there is a ''general lack of peer-reviewed science'' on the matter.


The Coalition, as part of its election bid to win back the seat of Gippsland East from independent Craig Ingram, promised the Mountain Cattlemen's Association of Victoria that its long-standing practice of national park cattle grazing would be reinstated. In return, the association campaigned strongly for the election of the Baillieu government.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/top-scientists-urge-halt-to-alpine-grazing-trial-20110129-1a938.html

It's not just the grazing. Herbivores move slowly, and therefore aren't large spreaders of weeds and introduced species.

But farmers attending the cattle in vehicles, or on horseback, will transport weeds from farmland into the national parks.

Quote:

Libs Want Grazing in National Parks

If it were up to me I would let the Libs graze in national parks, particularly the retired ones.

I could easily picture Amanda, John, Peter and Alexander out in the fields heads down bums up munching on various grasses and weeds.

While this would no doubt have a negative impact on tourism I feel that they have earned the right and are clearly deserving of this concession.

mantra wrote on Mar 1^st, 2011 at 5:56am:

We may as well write off our national parks in NSW - it's not only the Libs, but Labor did a deal with the Shooters Party to allow them to shoot native animals in our parks in exchange for their vote to sell the State Lotteries. Both parties are hell bent on destroying what little nature we have left. Labor has given approval for much of the state to remain open for longwall coal mining & coal and gas exploration, which is a whole lot more destructive than a bunch of cattle. Liberal and Labor aren't working for us - they're working for the multinationals. Coal & gas exploration hasn't hit Victoria in the same way it has NSW & Queensland - so that's something for the state to look forward to also.

This issue alone just makes my blood boil. That no where is  Sacred anymore.
Listening to John Hatton plight on radio the other day about this issue AND the mining exploration recently happening on the Southern tablelands as well as else where. His passion alone was worth his weight in gold.

All I can say is please vote for a John Hatton endorse candidate.

F@#K Science!
Banjo Patterson wrote a poem about it, what else do you UNAUSTRALIAN blow ins need to know????????
BANJO PATTERSON WROTE A POEM ABOUT IT!
End of Debate.

Dnarever wrote on Mar 1^st, 2011 at 7:57am:

Quote: Libs Want Grazing in National Parks If it were up to me I would let the Libs graze in national parks, particularly the retired ones. I could easily picture Amanda, John, Peter and Alexander out in the fields heads down bums up munching on various grasses and weeds. While this would no doubt have a negative impact on tourism I feel that they have earned the right and are clearly deserving of this concession.

so you dont like my idea of the greens cleaning it all up???.. what a shame but have to admit not in the least unexpected...hahahahahahaha

cods wrote on Mar 1^st, 2011 at 8:21am:

Dnarever wrote on Mar 1st, 2011 at 7:57am: Quote: Libs Want Grazing in National Parks If it were up to me I would let the Libs graze in national parks, particularly the retired ones. I could easily picture Amanda, John, Peter and Alexander out in the fields heads down bums up munching on various grasses and weeds. While this would no doubt have a negative impact on tourism I feel that they have earned the right and are clearly deserving of this concession. so you dont like my idea of the greens cleaning it all up???.. what a shame but have to admit not in the least unexpected...hahahahahahaha

you also have to admit its the greens that stopped all the burning off.. so why pick on the Libs..

its about time you faced it we cant have aour cake and eat it as well.. some things have to be done.. its a fact of life.. keep banging your head on a wall only gives you a headache and makes a hole in the wall.

cods wrote on Mar 1^st, 2011 at 8:24am:

cods wrote on Mar 1st, 2011 at 8:21am: Dnarever wrote on Mar 1st, 2011 at 7:57am: Quote: Libs Want Grazing in National Parks If it were up to me I would let the Libs graze in national parks, particularly the retired ones. I could easily picture Amanda, John, Peter and Alexander out in the fields heads down bums up munching on various grasses and weeds. While this would no doubt have a negative impact on tourism I feel that they have earned the right and are clearly deserving of this concession. so you dont like my idea of the greens cleaning it all up???.. what a shame but have to admit not in the least unexpected...hahahahahahaha you also have to admit its the greens that stopped all the burning off.. so why pick on the Libs.. its about time you faced it we cant have aour cake and eat it as well.. some things have to be done.. its a fact of life.. keep banging your head on a wall only gives you a headache and makes a hole in the wall.

Yeah this lie was run after the Vic Bushfires & was proven false.
But don't let that stop you from spreading it again, people may have forgotten besides falsehoods like this help maintain the rage.

National Parks are a breeding ground for noxious plants and feral animals.  Before mounting the high horse of false morality, the discussion needs to be realistic and sensible, not neurotic and scatter brained.

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 1^st, 2011 at 8:34am:

cods wrote on Mar 1st, 2011 at 8:24am: cods wrote on Mar 1st, 2011 at 8:21am: Dnarever wrote on Mar 1st, 2011 at 7:57am: Quote: Libs Want Grazing in National Parks If it were up to me I would let the Libs graze in national parks, particularly the retired ones. I could easily picture Amanda, John, Peter and Alexander out in the fields heads down bums up munching on various grasses and weeds. While this would no doubt have a negative impact on tourism I feel that they have earned the right and are clearly deserving of this concession. so you dont like my idea of the greens cleaning it all up???.. what a shame but have to admit not in the least unexpected...hahahahahahaha you also have to admit its the greens that stopped all the burning off.. so why pick on the Libs.. its about time you faced it we cant have aour cake and eat it as well.. some things have to be done.. its a fact of life.. keep banging your head on a wall only gives you a headache and makes a hole in the wall. Yeah this lie was run after the Vic Bushfires & was proven false. But don't let that stop you from spreading it again, people may have forgotten besides falsehoods like this help maintain the rage.

so who stopped the burning off??????? our Stromlo forest was razed to the ground after the fires of 2003.. what they found was disgraceful

cods wrote on Mar 1^st, 2011 at 9:04am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 1st, 2011 at 8:34am: cods wrote on Mar 1st, 2011 at 8:24am: cods wrote on Mar 1st, 2011 at 8:21am: Dnarever wrote on Mar 1st, 2011 at 7:57am: Quote: Libs Want Grazing in National Parks If it were up to me I would let the Libs graze in national parks, particularly the retired ones. I could easily picture Amanda, John, Peter and Alexander out in the fields heads down bums up munching on various grasses and weeds. While this would no doubt have a negative impact on tourism I feel that they have earned the right and are clearly deserving of this concession. so you dont like my idea of the greens cleaning it all up???.. what a shame but have to admit not in the least unexpected...hahahahahahaha you also have to admit its the greens that stopped all the burning off.. so why pick on the Libs.. its about time you faced it we cant have aour cake and eat it as well.. some things have to be done.. its a fact of life.. keep banging your head on a wall only gives you a headache and makes a hole in the wall. Yeah this lie was run after the Vic Bushfires & was proven false. But don't let that stop you from spreading it again, people may have forgotten besides falsehoods like this help maintain the rage. so who stopped the burning off??????? our Stromlo forest was razed to the ground after the fires of 2003.. what they found was disgraceful

Yes, this is simply a lie that the greenies didn`t prevent precautionary burning off.  This is another spun up propoganda type BS exercise. My husband is in the Rural Rire Brigade, and greeny interferance WAS RESPONSIBLE for great loss.  Greenies are, above all things, LIARS!

cods wrote on Mar 1^st, 2011 at 9:04am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 1st, 2011 at 8:34am: cods wrote on Mar 1st, 2011 at 8:24am: cods wrote on Mar 1st, 2011 at 8:21am: Dnarever wrote on Mar 1st, 2011 at 7:57am: Quote: Libs Want Grazing in National Parks If it were up to me I would let the Libs graze in national parks, particularly the retired ones. I could easily picture Amanda, John, Peter and Alexander out in the fields heads down bums up munching on various grasses and weeds. While this would no doubt have a negative impact on tourism I feel that they have earned the right and are clearly deserving of this concession. so you dont like my idea of the greens cleaning it all up???.. what a shame but have to admit not in the least unexpected...hahahahahahaha you also have to admit its the greens that stopped all the burning off.. so why pick on the Libs.. its about time you faced it we cant have aour cake and eat it as well.. some things have to be done.. its a fact of life.. keep banging your head on a wall only gives you a headache and makes a hole in the wall. Yeah this lie was run after the Vic Bushfires & was proven false. But don't let that stop you from spreading it again, people may have forgotten besides falsehoods like this help maintain the rage. so who stopped the burning off??????? our Stromlo forest was razed to the ground after the fires of 2003.. what they found was disgraceful

Who stopped the burning off???????
No-One, to be able to burn off the conditions need to be in the safe range, not too hot, not too windy & the right amount of humidity otherwise your controlled burn becomes a bush fire.
With a small window of opportunity, massive landmass to regulate & only a very small force of volunteers to actually get the job done(weekends only mind you) they fell behind that's it, no one said you have to stop fuel load reduction burns as you like to put out there.

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 1^st, 2011 at 8:34am:

cods wrote on Mar 1st, 2011 at 8:24am: cods wrote on Mar 1st, 2011 at 8:21am: Dnarever wrote on Mar 1st, 2011 at 7:57am: Quote: Libs Want Grazing in National Parks If it were up to me I would let the Libs graze in national parks, particularly the retired ones. I could easily picture Amanda, John, Peter and Alexander out in the fields heads down bums up munching on various grasses and weeds. While this would no doubt have a negative impact on tourism I feel that they have earned the right and are clearly deserving of this concession. so you dont like my idea of the greens cleaning it all up???.. what a shame but have to admit not in the least unexpected...hahahahahahaha you also have to admit its the greens that stopped all the burning off.. so why pick on the Libs.. its about time you faced it we cant have aour cake and eat it as well.. some things have to be done.. its a fact of life.. keep banging your head on a wall only gives you a headache and makes a hole in the wall. Yeah this lie was run after the Vic Bushfires & was proven false. But don't let that stop you from spreading it again, people may have forgotten besides falsehoods like this help maintain the rage.

Greens policy ...

The Greens believe that living with bushfire threat requires a coordinated approach that includes:

planning of housing sites to avoid development in risk prone areas;

strategically planned hazard reduction, including controlled burning, where  and when climatic conditions allow it to be done safely and where it is consistent with maintaining the ecosystem;

education and community awareness programs to reduce the incidence of arson; and

a well funded and managed fire fighting service which can protect human life and homes and contain the spread of fires


http://nsw.greens.org.au/sites/greens.org.au/files/policydownloads/Bush%20Fire%20Risk%20Management.pdf






The MYTH has been perpetuated mostly by shire councils, Australia wide, in an attempt to shift the blame ...

... with a simplistic - AND QUITE FALSE - "the greens won't let us"

mavisdavis wrote on Mar 1^st, 2011 at 8:57am:

National Parks are a breeding ground for noxious plants and feral animals.  Before mounting the high horse of false morality, the discussion needs to be realistic and sensible, not neurotic and scatter brained.

'

A  long decline and degradation of ecosystems in many protected areas, including problems with invasive weeds and feral animals does NOT need the introduction , &  effects that grazing cattle will have , on top of an already sensitive system.

mavisdavis wrote on Mar 1^st, 2011 at 8:57am:

National Parks are a breeding ground for noxious plants and feral animals.  Before mounting the high horse of false morality, the discussion needs to be realistic and sensible, not neurotic and scatter brained.

Lol

I am conflicted by National Parks.

I live surrounded completely by Marramarra and Muogamarra Parks north of Sydney. This talk of burning off all the time ignores the difficulty of actually doing that task - last winter, very little got burnt off becasue the conditions didn't come together.

To talk of casually burning off a few thousand hectares is so naive.

Cattle won't solve that problem either, so to suggest that grazing is a substitute for controlled burns is simply wrong.

I wonder whether the policy of locking parks up so completely is wrong. Where I live, they encourage tourists to visit the area, but there are only a few access points, which get totally choked with traffic, leaving nowhere to "enjoy" - no picnic areas, no cleared areas, very few tracks.

Would it be so bad to drive some more roads in and create some access points? Bobbin Head is nice, but the NPWS treat it as a private asset, charging entry fees everyone who dares to want to enjoy an asset owned by the public.

I've even heard that NPWS staff have had weddings and parties in Muogamarra - which is totally locked from public access 99.9% of the time - you can only enjoy it under escort (it's not a National Park, but an older entity). Is that fair?

Cattle ordered out of Victorian Alps
Fri Mar 18, 2011

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201103/r736217_5979107.jpg


Federal Environment Minister Tony Burke has given the Victorian Government until April 8 to get cattle out of the Alpine National Park.

The Ted Baillieu-led government reintroduced cattle grazing into the park in January to test if grazing cuts down the bushfire risk.

But Mr Burke has lashed out at the State Government and says the matter should first have been referred for Federal Government approval.

He says if the State Government does not take the cattle out in time and refer the plan for his approval, the Federal Government will act anyway.

"Every Australian company knows they're not above national law. Victoria decided maybe they were, well they're now in for a shock. They're not above the law and by April 8 the cattle will be out and the matter will be referred," he said.


He described the Victorian Government's responses to his department's requests for information about the trial as "a joke".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/18/3167797.htm

Reminds me of Russel Coight's adventure in the 'delicate alpine grasses.'