http://www.perthnow.com.au/coalition-admit-15-a-tonne-carbon-price/story-fn6mhb6v-1226058568667

THE federal coalition's environment spokesman Greg Hunt has revealed it would put an effective price on carbon of about $15 a tonne- only $10 cheaper than what is expected under the government's proposed carbon tax.

He conceded the coalition's plan was to allow for a varying carbon price of up to $15 a tonne. It's estimated on that price taxes could rise to $720 a year for average households by 2020.

Unlike the government's compensation plans, the coalition's price on carbon would be passed on to consumers, the government said.

"We have set out the average cost of emissions, which we would allow for, and our program is $15 a tonne. The price for an individual sector may be high or low, but we will simply go to the market and purchase the lowest-cost emissions reduction," said Mr Hunt.

You'd think with all the money the Liberal Party gets in donations from the extremists around the country they could afford to get someone who knows what they are doing to help formulate their policies.
Honestly..a class of kindy kids with crayons and butchers paper could do a better more thought through job of it.

... and that is where the main pressure for Abbott to step down will really come into its own! No one wants to waste their money on a bloke who is killing the parties reputation for many a future election by simply being lazy!

It's easy to fix: get someone who isn't so lazy!  ;) ;)

BYE BYE TIME-WASTER TONY ABBOTT

What a surprise this leads to a 2 paragraph story and THAT'S IT.  And then we say the media is completely unbiased.

freediver wrote on May 19^th, 2011 at 10:03pm:

http://www.perthnow.com.au/coalition-admit-15-a-tonne-carbon-price/story-fn6mhb6v-1226058568667 THE federal coalition's environment spokesman Greg Hunt has revealed it would put an effective price on carbon of about $15 a tonne- only $10 cheaper than what is expected under the government's proposed carbon tax. He conceded the coalition's plan was to allow for a varying carbon price of up to $15 a tonne. It's estimated on that price taxes could rise to $720 a year for average households by 2020. Unlike the government's compensation plans, the coalition's price on carbon would be passed on to consumers, the government said. "We have set out the average cost of emissions, which we would allow for, and our program is $15 a tonne. The price for an individual sector may be high or low, but we will simply go to the market and purchase the lowest-cost emissions reduction," said Mr Hunt.

I guess when you take into account the billions that this govts boat people policy is costing us.... well !!!

enough said I am thinking..

has the immigration minister dared to tell us how much each asylum seeker is costing each and every one of us each and every year????


now thats happening right now.... not in the future..RIGHT NOW AND I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW.>

Freediver... you are good at picking holes in the Libs.. so lets hear about the cost of this beauty?

I will wait for confirmation on this but if true, the idiots ill lose my vote. I will have to start looking up one of those little nutty parties other than greens of course.

progressiveslol wrote on May 20^th, 2011 at 9:09am:

I will wait for confirmation on this but if true, the idiots ill lose my vote. I will have to start looking up one of those little nutty parties other than greens of course.

Shooters would suit ya :)

Or the CEC

cods wrote on May 20^th, 2011 at 9:07am:

freediver wrote on May 19th, 2011 at 10:03pm: http://www.perthnow.com.au/coalition-admit-15-a-tonne-carbon-price/story-fn6mhb6v-1226058568667 THE federal coalition's environment spokesman Greg Hunt has revealed it would put an effective price on carbon of about $15 a tonne- only $10 cheaper than what is expected under the government's proposed carbon tax. He conceded the coalition's plan was to allow for a varying carbon price of up to $15 a tonne. It's estimated on that price taxes could rise to $720 a year for average households by 2020. Unlike the government's compensation plans, the coalition's price on carbon would be passed on to consumers, the government said. "We have set out the average cost of emissions, which we would allow for, and our program is $15 a tonne. The price for an individual sector may be high or low, but we will simply go to the market and purchase the lowest-cost emissions reduction," said Mr Hunt. I guess when you take into account the billions that this govts boat people policy is costing us.... well !!! enough said I am thinking.. has the immigration minister dared to tell us how much each asylum seeker is costing each and every one of us each and every year???? now thats happening right now.... not in the future..RIGHT NOW AND I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW.> Freediver... you are good at picking holes in the Libs.. so lets hear about the cost of this beauty?

As per usual with anything cods writes - .. ... WHAT?!  

THE federal coalition's environment spokesman Greg Hunt has revealed it would put an effective price on carbon of about $15 a tonne- only $10 cheaper than what is expected under the government's proposed carbon tax.

He conceded the coalition's plan was to allow for a varying carbon price of up to $15 a tonne. It's estimated on that price taxes could rise to $720 a year for average households by 2020.


http://www.perthnow.com.au/coalition-admit-15-a-tonne-carbon-price/story-fn6mhb6v-1226058568667




So Abbott LIED on the Coalition's carbon tax policy ?

progressiveslol wrote on May 20^th, 2011 at 9:09am:

I will wait for confirmation on this but if true, the idiots ill lose my vote. I will have to start looking up one of those little nutty parties other than greens of course.

Oh its true alright, I saw Abbott on the news last night and out of his very mouth he said the coalition would have a tax on carbon of 15 bucks a ton, with no compensation.
That's enough for it to be GAME OVER Mr Rabbitt.What a hypocrite.

skippy. wrote on May 20^th, 2011 at 2:18pm:

progressiveslol wrote on May 20th, 2011 at 9:09am: I will wait for confirmation on this but if true, the idiots ill lose my vote. I will have to start looking up one of those little nutty parties other than greens of course. Oh its true alright, I saw Abbott on the news last night and out of his very mouth he said the coalition would have a tax on carbon of 15 bucks a ton, with no compensation. That's enough for it to be GAME OVER Mr Rabbitt.What a hypocrite.

I surpose thats the same as there will never be a carbon tax under any govt I lead    ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Hypocrite  ;D

FRED. wrote on May 20^th, 2011 at 2:23pm:

skippy. wrote on May 20th, 2011 at 2:18pm: [quote author=smcgill link=1305806618/0#5 date=1305846571]I will wait for confirmation on this but if true, the idiots ill lose my vote. I will have to start looking up one of those little nutty parties other than greens of course. Oh its true alright, I saw Abbott on the news last night and out of his very mouth he said the coalition would have a tax on carbon of 15 bucks a ton, with no compensation. That's enough for it to be GAME OVER Mr Rabbitt.What a hypocrite.

A 15 dollar carbon tax with no compensation, wow just wow.

skippy. wrote on May 20^th, 2011 at 2:32pm:

FRED. wrote on May 20th, 2011 at 2:23pm: skippy. wrote on May 20th, 2011 at 2:18pm: progressiveslol wrote on May 20th, 2011 at 9:09am: I will wait for confirmation on this but if true, the idiots ill lose my vote. I will have to start looking up one of those little nutty parties other than greens of course. Oh its true alright, I saw Abbott on the news last night and out of his very mouth he said the coalition would have a tax on carbon of 15 bucks a ton, with no compensation. That's enough for it to be GAME OVER Mr Rabbitt.What a hypocrite. I surpose thats the same as there will never be a carbon tax under any govt I lead    ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Hypocrite  ;D I hope you're sticking to your own nick now days FWED

LOL  of to the mods fred picking on me  LOL ;D ;D poor drippy ;D ;D

Best to vote Green they are the only ones that were honest during the election from day 1.
Gillard lied, Abbott lied but Rudd and Turnbull have always told the truth about action on climate change.
No wonder the average punters are confused

adelcrow wrote on May 20^th, 2011 at 2:54pm:

Best to vote Green they are the only ones that were honest at the election from day 1. Gillard lied, Abbott lied but Rudd and Turnbull have always told the truth about action on climate change. No wonder the average punters are confused

At least you will know whos screwing you ;)

adelcrow wrote on May 20^th, 2011 at 2:54pm:

... Rudd and Turnbull have always told the truth about action on climate change.

Rudd? I don't think so. If he genuinely believed climate change is ''the greatest moral challenge of our time'' why didn't he have the cajones to do something about it?

skippy. wrote on May 20^th, 2011 at 2:32pm:

FRED. wrote on May 20th, 2011 at 2:23pm: skippy. wrote on May 20th, 2011 at 2:18pm: [quote author=smcgill link=1305806618/0#5 date=1305846571]I will wait for confirmation on this but if true, the idiots ill lose my vote. I will have to start looking up one of those little nutty parties other than greens of course. Oh its true alright, I saw Abbott on the news last night and out of his very mouth he said the coalition would have a tax on carbon of 15 bucks a ton, with no compensation. That's enough for it to be GAME OVER Mr Rabbitt.What a hypocrite. A 15 dollar carbon tax with no compensation, wow just wow.

Well what did everyone think would happen? For all the hate filled venom spat at Gillard for changing her position the coalition is no better. They would take government with a hate campagne over the tax then introduce one. Just like the GST. And before the loops start liberal one that election on boundaries and guns not the GST. They lost the popular vote.

The coalition knows that a carbon tax or an ets will happen but lies and denial seem to sit so well with the libs it looks natural.

This is starting to restore my faith in politics. I have been promoting a carbon tax for a decade. The whole time I was told it would simply never happen, that we are stuck with a trading scheme or nothing. Now both parties are pushing a tax. It really shows how in politics, everything can change overnight.

Somehow I doubt the Libs have thought this through fully. Or maybe they have but they are testing the waters to see what reception they get. In any case I will wait and see on the details. I am especially interested in what they mean by 'no compensation'. Does this mean for industry, or for poor people, or for taxpayers in general? I have an aweful feeling they intend to spend it on sequestration on farmland, but I suspect they cannot achieve that for $15 a tonne. The science is certainly not wrapped up on that yet. They they will either pay the farmers twice the going rate, which would be a waste, or they will pocket the money for the next vote buying binge, or they will cut other taxes (my preferred option).

Get it right, it is a carbon dioxide tax and it is just plain dumb and only stupid people would support it!

Like Abbott?

Like the GALP and their supporters/voters

So Abbott supports it because he is clever, but Gillard supports it because she is stupid?

freediver wrote on May 20^th, 2011 at 9:39pm:

This is starting to restore my faith in politics. I have been promoting a carbon tax for a decade. The whole time I was told it would simply never happen, that we are stuck with a trading scheme or nothing. Now both parties are pushing a tax. It really shows how in politics, everything can change overnight. Somehow I doubt the Libs have thought this through fully. Or maybe they have but they are testing the waters to see what reception they get. In any case I will wait and see on the details. I am especially interested in what they mean by 'no compensation'. Does this mean for industry, or for poor people, or for taxpayers in general? I have an aweful feeling they intend to spend it on sequestration on farmland, but I suspect they cannot achieve that for $15 a tonne. The science is certainly not wrapped up on that yet. They they will either pay the farmers twice the going rate, which would be a waste, or they will pocket the money for the next vote buying binge, or they will cut other taxes (my preferred option).

so where have you been promoting your Carbon Tax he FD....show us the evidence...

as for the Libs doing it... well we did ratify Kyoto...and the greens PANIC caused a huge swell in PANIC that the world was coming to an end..

and yes we all agree the planet could do with a big clean up.. no disgrace about that I dont think.. our waterways are up there with India..

however a TAX is a TAX is a TAX...and you by all accounts can afford this TAX..as you claim to have been busy promoting it..

well bully for you I am glad you are one of the wealthy and will see it through.. I am sure you plan on closing down ospolitics as I am sure it isnt doing our emmissions any favours..and you wouldnt want to be the one to encourage people to waste their meagre power ration on tripe like this would you?..

as many of those on here are not in the wealthy bracket you are in and can ill afford the cost of running a computer.once this Tax kicks in.

Seriously, this forum is pushing me closer and closer to voting at the next election for a party I've never voted for in my life just to disassociate myself from some of the crap that gets spouted on here.

remember_when64 wrote on May 20^th, 2011 at 11:19pm:

Seriously, this forum is pushing me closer and closer to voting at the next election for a party I've never voted for in my life just to disassociate myself from some of the crap that gets spouted on here.

who did you have in mind 64.??? we only have really 3 parties..and they all blur a bit..one way or another. I really do hope you get your allegiance from those on here... lol.. some remind me of biblebashers, they are right and everyone that doesnt agree is wrong..

just be glad you dont have to live with them that all I can say.

Why would it be an issue if the Coalition has a carbon tax of its own freedive?

We are having a carbon tax because Rudd ratified Kyoto

Maqqa wrote on May 21^st, 2011 at 6:44am:

Why would it be an issue if the Coalition has a carbon tax of its own freedive? We are having a carbon tax because Rudd ratified Kyoto

he doesnt understand that! he has been on about a CARBON TAX for a decade now and he knows taxing everyone will drive us all underground I suppose..

we have 1000 industries that are going to be TAXED to high heaven.

I cant get my head around that 1000.....do you think they mean 1000 companies?... I mean my car and that truck that hauls all the goodies I like to buy... all come from high emmission manufacturing..from the mining to me putting petrol in it..but not all are manufactured in this country...even parts which cost a fortune now..are all imported.manufactured elsewhere. I think we are lucky some of our food is still made in this country to be honest..maybe that willl change after this TAX hits everyone..

Quote:

so where have you been promoting your Carbon Tax he FD....show us the evidence...

Here is a thread I started 7 years ago, in response to other discussions I had been having. Not quite as refined as today, but it's there:

http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.html?gpp=156&pst=13196

Also, when I started this site, the Green Tax Shift articles were the first to go up.


Quote:

however a TAX is a TAX is a TAX...and you by all accounts can afford this TAX..as you claim to have been busy promoting it..

The model I have been promoting involves other taxes being reducing, thereby offsetting most of the impact. People who make a genuine effort to reduce their carbon footprint will actually be better off. Unlike most taxes, a carbon tax is designed to be avoided.


Quote:

and you wouldnt want to be the one to encourage people to waste their meagre power ration

I support taxation as an alternative to rationing. Rationing is what we do with water in a drought. I think it is retarded.


Quote:

as many of those on here are not in the wealthy bracket you are in and can ill afford the cost of running a computer.once this Tax kicks in.

The beauty of a tax is that even after it is in, you still won't need to do the maths to figure out what the CO2 emissions are for running your PC. The invisible hand will do it for you. That way you never look silly for blowing it all out of proportion.


Quote:

who did you have in mind 64.??? we only have really 3 parties..and they all blur a bit..one way or another.

I see four serious contenders at the moment.

Maqqa:


Quote:

Why would it be an issue if the Coalition has a carbon tax of its own freedive?

It is great, as I already explained. Also, it is funny to see Abbott doing a backflip and it will be funny to see all the people who parrott the Libs' line of the day doing similar backflips. So tell us how smart the Libs carbon tax is Maqqa....


Quote:

We are having a carbon tax because Rudd ratified Kyoto

Maqqa, can you point out the bit in Kyoto that says tax?


Quote:

and he knows taxing everyone will drive us all underground I suppose..

No cods. Like most economists, I support the idea because it will do least harm to our economy.


Quote:

I think we are lucky some of our food is still made in this country to be honest..maybe that willl change after this TAX hits everyone..

Actually, this aspect will benefit Australian farmers because it will favour locally grown produce. Not by much though. The impact on your grocery bill will be neglible.

FFS freedive

Gillard's carbon tax and any other discussion of a carbon tax by either party is the direct result of the Ratification of Kyoto

we need the tax to pay for the carbon penalty imposed by the Kyoto Protocol

I have rubbed buzz' nose in it and I will rub yours in it as well - I say this because I dislike people who tries to muddy this carbon tax debate with rhetoric rather than facts

buzz referenced that we can walk away from our Kyoto obligations anytime we want - why haven't we?

BECAUSE the ALP can't afford to reveal to the voters they buggered up with the ratification and Bob Brown will disown Gillard and we'll go the an election by Aug 2011

When it comes to Kyoto Protocol - you CAN'T WIN that argument with me - PERIOD!!

Quote:

Gillard's carbon tax and any other discussion of a carbon tax by either party is the direct result of the Ratification of Kyoto

When does the Kyoto agreement end?

Also, is Kyoto in any way relevant to the coalition's change in stance from opposing a tax in favour of their grants by tender program to supporting a tax?


Quote:

we need the tax to pay for the carbon penalty imposed by the Kyoto Protocol

What penalty is that?


Quote:

buzz referenced that we can walk away from our Kyoto obligations anytime we want - why haven't we?

Because we do not want to.


Quote:

When it comes to Kyoto Protocol - you CAN'T WIN that argument with me - PERIOD!!

This thread is about the coalition's carbon tax.

Freediver you are missing the point.

Australia has many, many, many decades of black coal left to use for power.

Australia produces a minute, tiny percentage of emissions into the atmosphere (the problem has begun with India and China's huge increase not Australia).

There isn't a need in Australia to do anything about the way we get our energy.

A carbon tax in Australia, is simply not required or necessary.

All you do is make things more expensive and no impact at all on the world climate.

Sure, we could theoretically go on polluting and let the rest of the world solve the problem without us. But in the real world, actions have consequences. The political consequences of Australia's efforts to reduce emissions will inevitably reach far beyond our shores. It may sound like a cliche, but your argument really is this simplistic: you want us to be part of the problem, rather than part of the solution, merely because we have the coal available.

Putting a tax on greenhouse emissions does not have to involve switching to more expensive energy sources.

Maqqa wrote on May 21^st, 2011 at 9:23am:

Gillard's carbon tax and any other discussion of a carbon tax by either party is the direct result of the Ratification of Kyoto

You do recall that Both Howard and Labor had a policy for a carbon tax in the 2007 election - well before Kyoyo?

I am still not seeing why Australia needs to do anything.

If we actually stopped producing everything and Australia produced 0, you do realise that the little men up in Beijing would increase by more than Australia's drop off.

See where the problem is?

Clue - Think tanks, communism, animal cruelty.

*** have we formed a circle yet  ?????? ***  :o :o :-[ :-X :-/ :-/ :'( :'( :'(

Andrei, there is a big gap between doing nothing about it and stopping everything. Don't you think it's a bit juvenile to pretend those are our only options?

THE WORLD OF PROPAGANDA IS A MAGICAL WORLD!!!  :D :D

.

cods wrote on May 21^st, 2011 at 6:18am:

who did you have in mind 64.??? we only have really 3 parties..and they all blur a bit..

That's the problem. At this time I don't see any party that I have complete faith in to come up with good policies for the country and that could actually implement policies properly.


cods wrote on May 21^st, 2011 at 6:18am:

just be glad you dont have to live with them that all I can say.

lol, at my work we cover all flavours of politics so we have some good debates now and then when not too busy. Doesn't turn into a slagging match that this place is.


freediver wrote on May 21^st, 2011 at 8:20am:

I see four serious contenders at the moment.

What's the fourth?

Dnarever wrote on May 21^st, 2011 at 12:26pm:

Maqqa wrote on May 21st, 2011 at 9:23am: Gillard's carbon tax and any other discussion of a carbon tax by either party is the direct result of the Ratification of Kyoto You do recall that Both Howard and Labor had a policy for a carbon tax in the 2007 election - well before Kyoyo?

The difference was Howard was didn't ratify Kyoto therefore he could always stop the tax if the numbers didn't stack up

Is it not blindingly obvious to all and sundry the problem is China??

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 21^st, 2011 at 5:23pm:

Is it not blindingly obvious to all and sundry the problem is China??

What about when America were the bad guys?!!?

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 21^st, 2011 at 5:23pm:

Is it not blindingly obvious to all and sundry the problem is China??

Don't forget the cows in India andrei - they are as much to blame  ;)

Maqqa wrote on May 21^st, 2011 at 5:21pm:

Dnarever wrote on May 21st, 2011 at 12:26pm: Maqqa wrote on May 21st, 2011 at 9:23am: Gillard's carbon tax and any other discussion of a carbon tax by either party is the direct result of the Ratification of Kyoto You do recall that Both Howard and Labor had a policy for a carbon tax in the 2007 election - well before Kyoyo? The difference was Howard was didn't ratify Kyoto therefore he could always stop the tax if the numbers didn't stack up

So why did he have anything to do with it at all then?

Well..now the Libs have a costly carbon tax..the right wingers have no where to go.
Time to stop whinging  :D

Don't worry the worst offenders are real team players.........



"India's position, let me be clear, is that we are simply not in the position to take legally binding emissions targets."

Jairam Ramesh, Indian Environment Minister.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/19/AR2009071900705.html

adelcrow wrote on May 21^st, 2011 at 5:27pm:

Well..now the Libs have a costly carbon tax..the right wingers have no where to go. Time to stop whinging  :D

oh, but Dad, you know I like doing nothing more than getting on the meth with my so-called-friends and pretending that my shite don't smell!

What else are you and mum supposed to do with all this money and spare property....?!!?

 :D

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on May 21^st, 2011 at 5:33pm:

oh, but Dad, you know I like doing nothing more than getting on the meth with my so-called-friends and pretending that my shite don't smell!  :D

I didn't know you were an abo?

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 21^st, 2011 at 5:28pm:

Don't worry the worst offenders are real team players......... "India's position, let me be clear, is that we are simply not in the position to take legally binding emissions targets." Jairam Ramesh, Indian Environment Minister. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/19/AR2009071900705.html

Mr Tough is a racist.... oh, well I never!!!!!!  ::)

Looks like the only ones left doubting the science are a few shock jocks, a Pommy Lunatic Lord and a handfull of forum users.
Time to come in from the cold kiddies  :D

adelcrow wrote on May 21^st, 2011 at 5:42pm:

Looks like the only ones left doubting the science are a few shock jocks, a Pommy Lunatic Lord and a handfull of forum users. Time to come in from the cold kiddies  :D

I am curious to know what Alan Jones attitude is these days on the subject!  ;D

remember_when64 wrote on May 21^st, 2011 at 5:16pm:

freediver wrote on May 21st, 2011 at 8:20am: I see four serious contenders at the moment. What's the fourth?

Nationals, Liberal, Labor, Greens.

freediver wrote on May 21^st, 2011 at 9:29am:

Quote: Gillard's carbon tax and any other discussion of a carbon tax by either party is the direct result of the Ratification of Kyoto When does the Kyoto agreement end? Also, is Kyoto in any way relevant to the coalition's change in stance from opposing a tax in favour of their grants by tender program to supporting a tax? [quote]we need the tax to pay for the carbon penalty imposed by the Kyoto Protocol

What penalty is that?


Quote:

buzz referenced that we can walk away from our Kyoto obligations anytime we want - why haven't we?

Because we do not want to.


Quote:

When it comes to Kyoto Protocol - you CAN'T WIN that argument with me - PERIOD!!

This thread is about the coalition's carbon tax.[/quote]

You seem to have missed this one Maqqa.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 21^st, 2011 at 5:34pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on May 21st, 2011 at 5:33pm: oh, but Dad, you know I like doing nothing more than getting on the meth with my so-called-friends and pretending that my shite don't smell!  :D I didn't know you were an abo?

Yeh, cos abbos have spare properties coming out their holes compared to whitey!

oh, you took me out of context........  :D :D :D :D :D :D :-[

freediver wrote on May 21^st, 2011 at 9:01pm:

Nationals, Liberal, Labor, Greens.

Doh! *slapping forehead* My apologies, forgot all about the Nats  ;D

That's easy to do. In QLD they got rid of them.