The national workplace watchdog has ruled a Sydney garbage collect should not have been fired for refusing to work shifts longer than 12 hours.   :(

The Transport Workers Union says Tony Forrow was consistently told by contractor United Resource Management Group he should work 14-hour shifts.   :o

Union official Michael Aird says the Warringah Council collector was then sacked after pointing out that was against the law.

"Our member researched the issue and discovered that he was only actually legally able to work 12 hours," Mr Aird said.

"When he put his concerns to the employer they told him 'no, no, you're wrong' and he said 'look, I think I'm right here'.

"Obviously they didn't listen to our member at all and directed him to work illegally and then when he said 'look, I just think that's unlawful and I can't do that', they sacked him."   :(

He says the union is yet to start negotiations on whether Mr Forrow will get his job back.

"The Commission at this stage has found that the dismissal was harsh and or unreasonable and or unjust," he said.

"It found that the dismissal was based on a refusal to work illegally, but at this stage they haven't determined what remedy will be made available to our member."

United Resource Management provides garbage collection services for nine Sydney councils.

The employer has got to be kidding, 14 hour days.  What ever happened to 8 hours work, 8 hours rest, 8 hours play.  That is the trouble, its either to much or its not enough.  They can shove their 14 hour days. :(  

Yes, well don't you know we have to work for the man.....until we drop.

What's with these ridiculously loooooong shifts these days. Hasn't anyone heard of an 8 hour working day? I thought modern technology was supposed to help the worker.

The garbo's didn't work 14 hour shifts, or even 12 hour shifts when they had to run alongside the truck and empty the bins manually.

Bring back 8 hour shifts and give someone else a go at working.

wrote on Jun 5^th, 2011 at 7:55am:

The employer has got to be kidding, 14 hour days.  What ever happened to 8 hours work, 8 hours rest, 8 hours play.  That is the trouble, its either to much or its not enough.  They can shove their 14 hour days. :(

ha ha crook....you beat me to it. With so many people unemployed, the working week should be cut to create more jobs.

wrote on Jun 5^th, 2011 at 7:55am:

The employer has got to be kidding, 14 hour days.  What ever happened to 8 hours work, 8 hours rest, 8 hours play.  That is the trouble, its either to much or its not enough.  They can shove their 14 hour days. :(

you should try being a medical intern. 14hour days would be a blessing!

Well I could be wrong but for some reason, I always thought a standard working week for most people was 38 hours a week.

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 5^th, 2011 at 8:59am:

wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 7:55am: The employer has got to be kidding, 14 hour days.  What ever happened to 8 hours work, 8 hours rest, 8 hours play.  That is the trouble, its either to much or its not enough.  They can shove their 14 hour days. :(   you should try being a medical intern. 14hour days would be a blessing!

Not for someone driving a heavy vehicle though....

RTA regs only allow 12 hour maximum time behind the wheel...

Sounds like a lot of rubbish to me.

my son in law NSW Police was doing 12 hour shifts..I was shocked I thought 12 hours to keep ones concentration was asking far too much.....he now does 10 hour shifts..however because he is in forensics.. that often runs over time..a copper just starting may have to do 12 hour shifts.

Middle class Nazi basterds cant squeeze enough out of the battlers and the poor to fund their parasitic class.  Somehow they always think the weakest link or the "Jew" is costing them and diddling them out of being pampered in a more luxurious lifestyle.


The class enemy
http://obamascrewedme.com/images/obama-nazi.jpg 8-)

http://guttertrash.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/clipboard014.jpg?w=416&h=224 8-)

A message from us...
http://madaboutsports.com.au/Images/blog/Ben_Cousins_flipping_the_bird.jpg 8-)

It's a fact that people have to work harder and longer hourse now than when they were serfs. And back in those times entertainment was free, sometimes including beer, paid for by cities, churches and town councils.

During year end close or full year budget times - I work well beyond 14 hour days - at times as high as 20 hours at peak times.

Do the job you sign up for, or don't do it?

Don't hear me complain.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 5^th, 2011 at 2:50pm:

During year end close or full year budget times - I work well beyond 14 hour days - at times as high as 20 hours at peak times. Do the job you sign up for, or don't do it? Don't hear me complain.

That's because you obviously don't have the talent or the bargaining position, or both, to negotiate better conditions for yourself.

You should join a union or something.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 5^th, 2011 at 2:50pm:

During year end close or full year budget times - I work well beyond 14 hour days - at times as high as 20 hours at peak times. Do the job you sign up for, or don't do it? Don't hear me complain.

When we fight back collectively as a class or take the crown to court - dont whine - just suck it up or crawl away and hide somewhere. 8-)

wrote on Jun 5^th, 2011 at 9:04am:

Well I could be wrong but for some reason, I always thought a standard working week for most people was 38 hours a week.

you are wrong and if you had a job you might realise that life is very different than you think it is. do you think pilots click off 8 hours into a 20 hour flight? do you think surgeons walk off half way thru the op because it is 5pm?

have you EVER worked?

Luke Fowler wrote on Jun 5^th, 2011 at 2:55pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 2:50pm: During year end close or full year budget times - I work well beyond 14 hour days - at times as high as 20 hours at peak times. Do the job you sign up for, or don't do it? Don't hear me complain. That's because you obviously don't have the talent or the bargaining position, or both, to negotiate better conditions for yourself. You should join a union or something.

since your experience is totally in the arts community Id venture you have little idea how the rest of the world operates especially at the higher levels.

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 5^th, 2011 at 5:20pm:

wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 9:04am: Well I could be wrong but for some reason, I always thought a standard working week for most people was 38 hours a week. you are wrong and if you had a job you might realise that life is very different than you think it is. do you think pilots click off 8 hours into a 20 hour flight? do you think surgeons walk off half way thru the op because it is 5pm? have you EVER worked?

Do you think the same pilot takes the plane from here to Heathrow?  You're so funny  ;D

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 5^th, 2011 at 6:12pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 5:20pm: wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 9:04am: Well I could be wrong but for some reason, I always thought a standard working week for most people was 38 hours a week. you are wrong and if you had a job you might realise that life is very different than you think it is. do you think pilots click off 8 hours into a 20 hour flight? do you think surgeons walk off half way thru the op because it is 5pm? have you EVER worked? Do you think the same pilot takes the plane from here to Heathrow?  You're so funny  ;D

you think they stop midair and get a new set of pilts? I am aware they have 3 pilots on flights liek this and rotate. the point was - and something you dont understand - is that a LOT of jobs work longer than 8 hours and many have very long unpredictable lenghts.

Of course there are a lot of jobs that work more than 8 hours.  It is usually in most cases called overtime.   :)    

wrote on Jun 5^th, 2011 at 6:57pm:

Of course there are a lot of jobs that work more than 8 hours.  It is usually in most cases called overtime.   :)

i repeat... have you ever worked anywhere, doing anything? the more you post the more you sound like a 14yo with a paper round.

What an absolute stupid question.  Yes of course I have.  

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 5^th, 2011 at 5:20pm:

wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 9:04am: Well I could be wrong but for some reason, I always thought a standard working week for most people was 38 hours a week. you are wrong and if you had a job you might realise that life is very different than you think it is. do you think pilots click off 8 hours into a 20 hour flight? do you think surgeons walk off half way thru the op because it is 5pm? have you EVER worked?

I doubt that many Garbage truck drivers are flying for Qantas or performing brain surgery in their spare time after finishing their illegal 14 hr shift at a low pay rate.

This is required to meet the negotiated contract conditions, the job was likely under quoted and the result is insufficient staff numbers to fulfil the requirements in a legal manner. This is one of the most common results of outsourcing.

Outsourcing drives down pay rates drives down staff numbers and rarely results in adequate results or performance.

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 5^th, 2011 at 6:59pm:

wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 6:57pm: Of course there are a lot of jobs that work more than 8 hours.  It is usually in most cases called overtime.   :)     i repeat... have you ever worked anywhere, doing anything? the more you post the more you sound like a 14yo with a paper round.

You`ve wonderd too?

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 5^th, 2011 at 6:14pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 6:12pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 5:20pm: wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 9:04am: Well I could be wrong but for some reason, I always thought a standard working week for most people was 38 hours a week. you are wrong and if you had a job you might realise that life is very different than you think it is. do you think pilots click off 8 hours into a 20 hour flight? do you think surgeons walk off half way thru the op because it is 5pm? have you EVER worked? Do you think the same pilot takes the plane from here to Heathrow?  You're so funny  ;D you think they stop midair and get a new set of pilts? I am aware they have 3 pilots on flights liek this and rotate. the point was - and something you dont understand - is that a LOT of jobs work longer than 8 hours and many have very long unpredictable lenghts.

OK, Mr Expert....

Exactly how long does one pilot have control of the plane before handing over to the next pilot?

:)

Luke Fowler wrote on Jun 5^th, 2011 at 2:55pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 2:50pm: During year end close or full year budget times - I work well beyond 14 hour days - at times as high as 20 hours at peak times. Do the job you sign up for, or don't do it? Don't hear me complain. That's because you obviously don't have the talent or the bargaining position, or both, to negotiate better conditions for yourself. You should join a union or something.

You are obviously a little raw to these boards.

People in triple figure middle management dont worry about Unions.  If you think Andre needs a Union, Im gonna have to stop you now before I die from laughter.

Ive never had a problem with 14 hour days, some much longer than that.

You bog down when you have to, and in my experience you get rewarded down the track.

And none of my "overtime" was ever on the hourly pay clock either.

Lobo wrote on Jun 5^th, 2011 at 8:45pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 6:14pm: Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 6:12pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 5:20pm: wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 9:04am: Well I could be wrong but for some reason, I always thought a standard working week for most people was 38 hours a week. you are wrong and if you had a job you might realise that life is very different than you think it is. do you think pilots click off 8 hours into a 20 hour flight? do you think surgeons walk off half way thru the op because it is 5pm? have you EVER worked? Do you think the same pilot takes the plane from here to Heathrow?  You're so funny  ;D you think they stop midair and get a new set of pilts? I am aware they have 3 pilots on flights liek this and rotate. the point was - and something you dont understand - is that a LOT of jobs work longer than 8 hours and many have very long unpredictable lenghts. OK, Mr Expert.... Exactly how long does one pilot have control of the plane before handing over to the next pilot? :)

With modern planes....isn't it just long enough to turn the autopilot on???

Verge wrote on Jun 5^th, 2011 at 10:07pm:

Luke Fowler wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 2:55pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 2:50pm: During year end close or full year budget times - I work well beyond 14 hour days - at times as high as 20 hours at peak times. Do the job you sign up for, or don't do it? Don't hear me complain. That's because you obviously don't have the talent or the bargaining position, or both, to negotiate better conditions for yourself. You should join a union or something. You are obviously a little raw to these boards. People in triple figure middle management dont worry about Unions.  If you think Andre needs a Union, Im gonna have to stop you now before I die from laughter. Ive never had a problem with 14 hour days, some much longer than that. You bog down when you have to, and in my experience you get rewarded down the track. And none of my "overtime" was ever on the hourly pay clock either.

Actually, I am aware of Andre and his triple figure middle management position.

Previous conversations have uncovered that Andre and I earn approximately the same wage. If I was forced to work a 14+ hour day however, I would be out the door in a heartbeat. I love my job, but I also have a life to live outside of it.

I am lucky that my employers are well aware of this. In, turn, I will send a member of my team home if they are staying at work too late.

As a result, we are a happy, productive team that constantly produces results and that has a life outside of work. I feel that the quality of work produced after you have been there for hours on end drops dramatically anyway.

If that makes me less worthy than the schmo who is stuck in an office away from family and friends, so be it.

But hey, you can feel free to feel somehow superior because you work longer hours than I do. I'll think of you when I'm out at a show with my wife or drinking with mates.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 5^th, 2011 at 2:50pm:

During year end close or full year budget times - I work well beyond 14 hour days - at times as high as 20 hours at peak times. Do the job you sign up for, or don't do it? Don't hear me complain.

Your kids must feel really loved.

Luke Fowler wrote on Jun 5^th, 2011 at 10:22pm:

Verge wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 10:07pm: Luke Fowler wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 2:55pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 2:50pm: During year end close or full year budget times - I work well beyond 14 hour days - at times as high as 20 hours at peak times. Do the job you sign up for, or don't do it? Don't hear me complain. That's because you obviously don't have the talent or the bargaining position, or both, to negotiate better conditions for yourself. You should join a union or something. You are obviously a little raw to these boards. People in triple figure middle management dont worry about Unions.  If you think Andre needs a Union, Im gonna have to stop you now before I die from laughter. Ive never had a problem with 14 hour days, some much longer than that. You bog down when you have to, and in my experience you get rewarded down the track. And none of my "overtime" was ever on the hourly pay clock either. Actually, I am aware of Andre and his triple figure middle management position. Previous conversations have uncovered that Andre and I earn approximately the same wage. If I was forced to work a 14+ hour day however, I would be out the door in a heartbeat. I love my job, but I also have a life to live outside of it. I am lucky that my employers are well aware of this. In, turn, I will send a member of my team home if they are staying at work too late. As a result, we are a happy, productive team that constantly produces results and that has a life outside of work. I feel that the quality of work produced after you have been there for hours on end drops dramatically anyway. If that makes me less worthy than the schmo who is stuck in an office away from family and friends, so be it. But hey, you can feel free to feel somehow superior because you work longer hours than I do. I'll think of you when I'm out at a show with my wife or drinking with mates.

There is an expectation where I am that you get in and do the work when it needs to be done, and you arent near the place when its quiet.

Its the joys of the corporate world, and if you have to do the 12, 14, and even 16 hour day then you do it in order to meet the deadlines.

If your answer to meeting a deadline is 'I'm going home', then good luck to you, but you wouldnt last 2 minutes in my office.

Thats where the give and take comes in.  You give me the time when we need it, and I give them the time when they want it.

I dont know what kind of an arts job you have that lets you head off without a sniff of overtime, but its obviously not one that involves strict deadlines.

Good luck to you, but you situation is not what I would call a normal one.

But I'll think of you while Im having my week off because of the overtime I did the week before in meeting the deadlines.

Grey wrote on Jun 5^th, 2011 at 10:34pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 2:50pm: During year end close or full year budget times - I work well beyond 14 hour days - at times as high as 20 hours at peak times. Do the job you sign up for, or don't do it? Don't hear me complain. Your kids must feel really loved.

Do you know his companys position on family?

Heck, I get a visit a day from my wife and daughter at work if its a 6 hour day or a 15 hour one I work.

Verge wrote on Jun 5^th, 2011 at 10:48pm:

Grey wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 10:34pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 2:50pm: During year end close or full year budget times - I work well beyond 14 hour days - at times as high as 20 hours at peak times. Do the job you sign up for, or don't do it? Don't hear me complain. Your kids must feel really loved. Do you know his companys position on family? Heck, I get a visit a day from my wife and daughter at work if its a 6 hour day or a 15 hour one I work.

I think it depends on what the job is, and what method of payment you're on...
Salaried staff tend to work longer hours than wage staff...

Salary sort of means you get paid $X per month for so much production...and you stay until the works done..

Wage is more you are paid for so many hours, and after those hours, you leave..

The longest shift I've ever done was 27 hours guarding a fatal accident site...

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 5^th, 2011 at 10:58pm:

Verge wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 10:48pm: Grey wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 10:34pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 2:50pm: During year end close or full year budget times - I work well beyond 14 hour days - at times as high as 20 hours at peak times. Do the job you sign up for, or don't do it? Don't hear me complain. Your kids must feel really loved. Do you know his companys position on family? Heck, I get a visit a day from my wife and daughter at work if its a 6 hour day or a 15 hour one I work. I think it depends on what the job is, and what method of payment you're on... Salaried staff tend to work longer hours than wage staff... Salary sort of means you get paid $X per month for so much production...and you stay until the works done.. Wage is more you are paid for so many hours, and after those hours, you leave.. The longest shift I've ever done was 27 hours guarding a fatal accident site...

Probably the best definition Ive seen of salary vs wages.

27 hours, damn!  I guess you have to do what you have to do.

You guys really want these fella's driving thru your neighbourhood in the late afternoon or early evening when you children are in the streets when they have been behind the wheel for 14 hours.

I have to say that I do not want this company playing Russian roulette with children’s lives.

Verge wrote on Jun 5^th, 2011 at 10:43pm:

Luke Fowler wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 10:22pm: Verge wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 10:07pm: Luke Fowler wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 2:55pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 2:50pm: During year end close or full year budget times - I work well beyond 14 hour days - at times as high as 20 hours at peak times. Do the job you sign up for, or don't do it? Don't hear me complain. That's because you obviously don't have the talent or the bargaining position, or both, to negotiate better conditions for yourself. You should join a union or something. You are obviously a little raw to these boards. People in triple figure middle management dont worry about Unions.  If you think Andre needs a Union, Im gonna have to stop you now before I die from laughter. Ive never had a problem with 14 hour days, some much longer than that. You bog down when you have to, and in my experience you get rewarded down the track. And none of my "overtime" was ever on the hourly pay clock either. Actually, I am aware of Andre and his triple figure middle management position. Previous conversations have uncovered that Andre and I earn approximately the same wage. If I was forced to work a 14+ hour day however, I would be out the door in a heartbeat. I love my job, but I also have a life to live outside of it. I am lucky that my employers are well aware of this. In, turn, I will send a member of my team home if they are staying at work too late. As a result, we are a happy, productive team that constantly produces results and that has a life outside of work. I feel that the quality of work produced after you have been there for hours on end drops dramatically anyway. If that makes me less worthy than the schmo who is stuck in an office away from family and friends, so be it. But hey, you can feel free to feel somehow superior because you work longer hours than I do. I'll think of you when I'm out at a show with my wife or drinking with mates. There is an expectation where I am that you get in and do the work when it needs to be done, and you arent near the place when its quiet. Its the joys of the corporate world, and if you have to do the 12, 14, and even 16 hour day then you do it in order to meet the deadlines. If your answer to meeting a deadline is 'I'm going home', then good luck to you, but you wouldnt last 2 minutes in my office. Thats where the give and take comes in.  You give me the time when we need it, and I give them the time when they want it. I dont know what kind of an arts job you have that lets you head off without a sniff of overtime, but its obviously not one that involves strict deadlines. Good luck to you, but you situation is not what I would call a normal one.

We have deadlines. Deadlines are met.

I note with interest the claim that my job allows me to walk out the door "without a sniff of overtime". Where was that said?

I said that 14 hour plus days were unacceptable. An hour here and there is not an issue. Most people with their heads down don't even notice an extra hour pass.

However, if you are working 14 hour days, then what kind of quality of life is that giving you? As I said, this whole "that's just how it is" line is quite bemusing to me. Seriously, call me ignorant but I can't see it for the kind of salary we are talking about.

Maybe it is an old school way of looking at things. I know a lot of my friends who entered the workforce at the same time as me aren't pulling shifts like the ones you describe and they don't all work in the Arts (some are in much more prosaic fields). Maybe we just demand more from our employers these days. Maybe it's because our employers found us rather than us looking for them. Who can tell?

I'm not going to doubt that you do these kind of shifts and that this is what is expected in your organisation, but I wouldn't do it, simple as that. I would prefer to be paid less and get by with a few less nights eating out than work ridiculous hours like this. Not everybody's life centres solely around the office, no matter how much they like their job.

As I said in another thread, Mrs Fowler and I are looking to have children soon and I don't think I would be any kind of father if I was stuck in an office 14+ hours a day.

Luckily for me, that won't be the case.

If people consistantly need to work 14 hr days it is because the staff levels are not right.

Dnarever wrote on Jun 5^th, 2011 at 11:14pm:

If people consistantly need to work 14 hr days it is because the staff levels are not right.

I was just about to say that.

Haven't these people heard of temps?

Dnarever wrote on Jun 5^th, 2011 at 11:06pm:

You guys really want these fella's driving thru your neighbourhood in the late afternoon or early evening when you children are in the streets when they have been behind the wheel for 14 hours. I have to say that I do not want this company playing Russian roulette with children’s lives.

Good point - all the more pertinent since I think I suffered my first ever microsleep behind the wheel last night - YIKES!!!

Over the past 15 years, I have made an annual average of well over a dozen 'day trips' between the cusp of the Central Coast and Hunter and Sydney - and where possible, I prefer to avoid freeway traffic by making the return trip at night...

In all that time, I have never been so tired that I could have dozed off at the wheel - until last night...

I've got Duracell-genes - i.e. I don't need as much sleep as most and I very rarely bed down before midnight...

In hindsight, it was a mistake to make a day trip to go to a party (no drugs or alcohol consumed) and attempt to drive home so soon after my little trip to hospital - cos my kids and me (and possibly others) could have been road statistics today!

I've heard it said that most late night road accidents occur within a short distance from home - we were about 20 mins drive away from home when I was overwhelmed with tiredness...after not much more than an hour of driving...

Scary stuff - never to be repeated!!!

So many people don't realise that the only real thing we get to spend is time. ::)

Verge wrote on Jun 5^th, 2011 at 11:00pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 10:58pm: Verge wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 10:48pm: Grey wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 10:34pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 2:50pm: During year end close or full year budget times - I work well beyond 14 hour days - at times as high as 20 hours at peak times. Do the job you sign up for, or don't do it? Don't hear me complain. Your kids must feel really loved. Do you know his companys position on family? Heck, I get a visit a day from my wife and daughter at work if its a 6 hour day or a 15 hour one I work. I think it depends on what the job is, and what method of payment you're on... Salaried staff tend to work longer hours than wage staff... Salary sort of means you get paid $X per month for so much production...and you stay until the works done.. Wage is more you are paid for so many hours, and after those hours, you leave.. The longest shift I've ever done was 27 hours guarding a fatal accident site... Probably the best definition Ive seen of salary vs wages. 27 hours, damn!  I guess you have to do what you have to do.

Yeah, it was only supposed to be 12 hours, but the boss couldn't find anyone to take over...

Not that I minded all that much.....I was on $28/hour...

Luke Fowler wrote on Jun 5^th, 2011 at 11:15pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 11:14pm: If people consistantly need to work 14 hr days it is because the staff levels are not right. I was just about to say that. Haven't these people heard of temps?

like temp truck drivers or temp pilots or temp miners way out int he bush? it isnt always like that in the REAL world of income producing business.

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 6^th, 2011 at 4:27pm:

Luke Fowler wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 11:15pm: Dnarever wrote on Jun 5th, 2011 at 11:14pm: If people consistantly need to work 14 hr days it is because the staff levels are not right. I was just about to say that. Haven't these people heard of temps? like temp truck drivers or temp pilots or temp miners way out int he bush? it isnt always like that in the REAL world of income producing business.

So you think it's a great idea to have truck drivers on the road for those lengths of time.

Too bad when they go off the road or wipe out some family because they are so tired and whatever substance they are taking to stay awake wears off. As long as the company meets its bottom line, eh?

Further, as far as I am aware, it's not hard to find a temp accountant. They aren't all that rare. Our finance department has them in all the time during our busiest periods.

It's not rocket science staffing an office to meet demand. I think some people have just come to expect that they have to work ridiculous hours because they fear they might be shown the door if they don't.

If you have what your employer needs, if you are talented and have the appropriate skills/education/experience and you are able to negotiate well, you shouldn't have to fear anything.

Colleagues of mine who live in the "real" world (as opposed to the unreal world where these ethereal hands are typing on a keyboard made of ether and fairies are holding up my keyboard so I can see it) say the same thing. What you scoff at is merely an organisation that treats its staff well.

I know, it's terrible. I should leave and go work for a bank.

hi,
when i was working full time, it was for myself, and i easily clocked up 18 hours/day.
but i loved my work.
helped me to retire early with good money.
i can, however, understand the pain if one doesn't relate well to one's job.
the pain would be enormous.
j.

Hours of work

From 1 January 2010 maximum weekly hours form part of the National Employment Standards (NES) and replace the maximum ordinary hours of work entitlements under the Australian Fair Pay and Conditions Standard (the Standard).

The NES sets out the maximum weekly hours for employees and also the circumstances in which an employee may refuse a request or requirement to work additional hours if the hours are unreasonable.
Maximum weekly hours.   ;)

An employer must not request or require an employee to work more than the following hours of work in a week, unless the additional hours are reasonable:   ;)

   * for a full-time employee - 38 hours; or
   * for an employee other than a full-time employee - the lesser of 38 hours or the employee's ordinary hours of work in a week.

When calculating the number of hours an employee has worked per week, any authorised leave, such as personal leave, should be included.
Reasonable additional hours

An employee may refuse to work additional hours, if they are unreasonable. For additional hours to be 'reasonable', all relevant factors must be considered.   ;)

These factors include:

   * any risk to the employee's health and safety
   * the employee's personal circumstances, including family responsibilities
   * the needs of the workplace or enterprise
   * whether the employee is entitled to receive overtime payments, penalty rates or other compensation for, or a level of remuneration, that reflects an expectation of, working additional hours
   * any notice given by the employer to work the additional hours
   * any notice given by the employee that they intend to refuse to work the additional hours
   * the usual patterns of work in the industry
   * the nature of the employee's role, and the employee's level of responsibility
   * whether the additional hours are in accordance with agreed averaging arrangements
   * any other relevant matter.

Averaging weekly hours

An award or agreement (including an award or agreement based transitional instrument) may include provisions for the averaging of hours of work over a specified period, which is greater than a week.

Similarly, employers and award/agreement free employees may agree in writing to an arrangement to average their ordinary hours of work. The maximum averaging period for award/agreement free employees is 26 weeks.

The average hours worked over the period must not exceed the employee’s maximum weekly hours (i.e. 38 hours per week for a full time employee).

There is no requirement for an employer and employee to enter into an averaging arrangement. An employer cannot force or try to force an employee to make or not make an averaging arrangement.

Penalties of up to $6,600 for an individual and $33,000 for a corporation can apply.

Imcrook - I bet over the last 5 years I have worked infinitely more hours than you have.

Dedication and work ethic mate. That is why some succeed and some fail.

The number of working hours you do means the more or less pay you get.  But don't think for a moment because you do more hours, your job is any more secure.  I have worked both short and long hours for different company's.  With the norm being an 8 hour day.  Also I have worked 12 hour days 7 days a week.  Yes more money, but more job security - no.      

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 7^th, 2011 at 10:25am:

Imcrook - I bet over the last 5 years I have worked infinitely more hours than you have. Dedication and work ethic mate. That is why some succeed and some fail.

That requires a definition of 'work' and 'success'. To my mind there's more than one measure of success and if money is one of them, it's a pretty unimportant one compared with happiness, making a real difference, and being a good parent.

wrote on Jun 7^th, 2011 at 10:38am:

The number of working hours you do means the more or less pay you get.  But don't think for a moment because you do more hours, your job is any more secure.  I have worked both short and long hours for different company's.  With the norm being an 8 hour day.  Also I have worked 12 hour days 7 days a week.  Yes more money, but more job security - no.

So you not working now is your revenge?

Do you suffer a disability?

Are you trade qualified?

Have you sought to get additional qualifications since you last had a job?

Have you been prepared to even take on part time work, like stacking shelves, in order to get back into the work force?

Verge wrote on Jun 7^th, 2011 at 11:04am:

wrote on Jun 7th, 2011 at 10:38am: The number of working hours you do means the more or less pay you get.  But don't think for a moment because you do more hours, your job is any more secure.  I have worked both short and long hours for different company's.  With the norm being an 8 hour day.  Also I have worked 12 hour days 7 days a week.  Yes more money, but more job security - no.       So you not working now is your revenge? Do you suffer a disability? Are you trade qualified? Have you sought to get additional qualifications since you last had a job? Have you been prepared to even take on part time work, like stacking shelves, in order to get back into the work force?

Leave it out, Verge...this kind of assault is not like you - nor is it becoming of anyone...

What revenge?.  If a person is not working I certainly wouldn't call it revenge.  After all the unemployed sure can live a life of luxury, on what is it- $34 a day?.  Perhaps some people that think it is so good, should try it.  

IMO, to measure the worth of a person ONLY by how much he earns
OR whether he has a job or not is childish in the extreme, and reflects
FAR more badly on the judge than on those he judges.

wrote on Jun 7^th, 2011 at 10:38am:

The number of working hours you do means the more or less pay you get.  But don't think for a moment because you do more hours, your job is any more secure.  I have worked both short and long hours for different company's.  With the norm being an 8 hour day.  Also I have worked 12 hour days 7 days a week.  Yes more money, but more job security - no.

I dont think my job is 100% secure.
If I wanted total security and the ability to work short hours without worry, I'd get a job in the private sector.

My job is no more secure than anyone else who works in a performance-based, high pressure environment.

I also believe though that I have the skillset (and the fortune through EU and AUS passports) to work across markets, across industries and continue to add value to companies.

Grey wrote on Jun 7^th, 2011 at 10:41am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 7th, 2011 at 10:25am: Imcrook - I bet over the last 5 years I have worked infinitely more hours than you have. Dedication and work ethic mate. That is why some succeed and some fail. That requires a definition of 'work' and 'success'. To my mind there's more than one measure of success and if money is one of them, it's a pretty unimportant one compared with happiness, making a real difference, and being a good parent.

Andrei is a robot, he knows not the measure of a man, and has no interest in finding out, unlike the Bicentennial Man from Isaac Asimov's robot collection.

Whereas Pansi thinks it is a measure of success to be working in a low-wage low skill role in her twilight years.

Apparently my parents' ability to live off of their investments is something she wouldn't want.

Go figure.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 7^th, 2011 at 11:48am:

Whereas Pansi thinks it is a measure of success to be working in a low-wage low skill role in her twilight years. Apparently my parents' ability to live off of their investments is something she wouldn't want. Go figure.

The things that I count as successes are seriously for love, no money involved. Can you try to be a critical thinker and take the risk to step outside of the square, look at things from all angles. Critical thinkers are an asset in any workplace because they are not locked into only one train of thought.

It seems that the only way you look at life is through the almighty $$$$$$, you should look at life from all aspects and positions to get an overall big picture. You are extremely closed minded in your world views. I would not want such a person working for my company.