http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/latest/9774728/top-australia-cop-demands-veil-powers/

SYDNEY (AFP) - One of the most senior policemen in Australia on Sunday said authorities must have clear legal powers to require people to remove face coverings, including veils, if they are do their job properly.

The comments by New South Wales state Police Commissioner Andrew Scipione follow the case of Carnita Matthews, who in November 2010 was sentenced to six months jail for falsely accusing police of forcibly trying to remove her burqa.

It followed the woman being pulled over for a traffic offence.

Her sentence was quashed last month when a magistrate said he could not be 100 percent sure it was Matthews who made the complaint because officers were not able to see the face of the accuser.

Scipione told the Sydney Sunday Telegraph there must be one law for everyone -- regardless of their race or religion.

"This is not about disrespect; this has got nothing to do with religion," he said.

"It wouldn't matter whether it was a full-face motorcycle helmet or a balaclava at the snowfield: People have to do what they're required to (by police).

"Whether you're wearing a veil, whether you're wearing a full-face motorcycle helmet, a ski balaclava in the snowfields -- if there is a lawful reason, if there is a need for police to actually identify the person, then this should not be in the grey.

"It should be something everyone clearly understands."

Scipione said he had held talks with senior politicians who had indicated that if there was a loophole, then they would work to close it.

"This is not something we can just allow to continue," he said, adding that frontline police officers had to be protected from vindictive complaints, which could ruin careers.
"I get absolutely filthy when people want to make complaints that are clearly false," he said. "If you do that, and I catch you, we will charge you."

Muslims and Islam (yes the religion) need to be part of the answer

All we see at the moment are:

(1) Muslims love to live in your country

(2) But you Australians must be more tolerant to Muslims

(3) Muslims will push the point to get their way - but Australians must back down


FFS muslims

Other religions have evolve so everyone can live together so why can't you?!

Looks like someone has some misconceptions here...

Whilst some Muslims might come here from other countries, many of us do not, we were born here, our parents were born here, their parents were born here... the idea that we "want to live in *your* country" is just ridiculous. This is my country, and it's dipsticks like yourself that are making things uncohesive, by trying to single out Islam and Muslims. According to your small minded little view of the situation, a Russian Christian immigrant to this country who's been here 6 months, is more of an Australian than a Muslim like myself who's family has been here about 200 years. You're a joke, and a poor one at that. Wake up to yourself.

The thing people like you don't like about Muslim immigrants is that they're not like "wogs", "dagos" and "gooks" who came before them, who just back down and let you treat them like dirt because they happen to be new here.... they actually stand up for themselves and demand respect. That's what you don't like isn't it? You prefer nice passive, acquiescent incomers, who you can push around...

As far as I am concerned, if they support democracy and freedom to choose for yourself, then they are more Australian than Muslims such as yourself Abu, even if they have only been here ten minutes.


Quote:

This is my country, and it's dipsticks like yourself that are making things uncohesive

So it is our fault for singling you out, not your fault for supporting the destruction of our society? What else did you expect Abu? How cohesive do you expect our society to be with people who want to destroy it?


Quote:

The thing people like you don't like about Muslim immigrants is that they're not like "wogs", "dagos" and "gooks" who came before them, who just back down and let you treat them like dirt because they happen to be new here.... they actually stand up for themselves and demand respect. That's what you don't like isn't it?

Plenty of them do get our respect. They have no need to ask. Some earn our disrespect, and demanding respect is not going to change that. It is kind of naive of you to claim it is merely asking for respect that earns disrespect, when we are quite open with you about why we feel the way we do.

Wrong abu

It's a multi-cultural country and there is a common law for everyone in it

Whether you came here or you were born here the rules apply

As such you should not be allowed to use your own religious doctrines to be exempt from law of the land

As such you should just shut up and accept that it's the law of the land and you respect that everyone is subject to it

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2011 at 10:59pm:

Looks like someone has some misconceptions here... Whilst some Muslims might come here from other countries, many of us do not, we were born here, our parents were born here, their parents were born here... the idea that we "want to live in *your* country" is just ridiculous. This is my country, and it's dipsticks like yourself that are making things uncohesive, by trying to single out Islam and Muslims. According to your small minded little view of the situation, a Russian Christian immigrant to this country who's been here 6 months, is more of an Australian than a Muslim like myself who's family has been here about 200 years. You're a joke, and a poor one at that. Wake up to yourself. The thing people like you don't like about Muslim immigrants is that they're not like "wogs", "dagos" and "gooks" who came before them, who just back down and let you treat them like dirt because they happen to be new here.... they actually stand up for themselves and demand respect. That's what you don't like isn't it? You prefer nice passive, acquiescent incomers, who you can push around...

ok abu,

all i know is what i see.
down the road here in Burwood, NSW, there are a number of arab run businesses.
mainly cafe's.
at one point a coupla years back, these places were packed.
now, they are half full on a comparative night.
i hardly see a white or asian in them, at any time.
when i walk past Sidnee's Cafe, i'm made to feel uncomfortable by vibe and looks.
this was not the case five years ago.
and this one of the cafe's suffering now.
whites generally custom cafe's that at least have "white"/euro ownership.
BUT, anyway, what is driving me crazy here, now, is i CANNOT get roast pork, anywhere.
or a decent steak, or fish.
at Five Dock, about 1k away, north of Burwood, there are most of these, but hardly any arabs.
best.
j.

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2011 at 10:59pm:

Looks like someone has some misconceptions here... Whilst some Muslims might come here from other countries, many of us do not, we were born here, our parents were born here, their parents were born here... the idea that we "want to live in *your* country" is just ridiculous. This is my country, and it's dipsticks like yourself that are making things uncohesive, by trying to single out Islam and Muslims. According to your small minded little view of the situation, a Russian Christian immigrant to this country who's been here 6 months, is more of an Australian than a Muslim like myself who's family has been here about 200 years. You're a joke, and a poor one at that. Wake up to yourself. The thing people like you don't like about Muslim immigrants is that they're not like "wogs", "dagos" and "gooks" who came before them, who just back down and let you treat them like dirt because they happen to be new here.... they actually stand up for themselves and demand respect. That's what you don't like isn't it? You prefer nice passive, acquiescent incomers, who you can push around...

Absolutely correct. This person, by and large, adheres to the values that made this country what it is. He will not demand special treament for his religion and will adapt to his new homeland, its laws and customs. It is the muslim inablity to compromise on anything they percieve as contradicting their religion that causes all the problems. And its not just Australia is it? Every western country has the same problem. If your religious beliefs are more important than your adherence to secular law and custom then surely you would be more comfortable in one of the middle eastern countrys that panders to your tastes?

A victory for common sense, but such a law has never been necessary in our society previously, not until muslims began placing religious dogma over the accepted standards of Australian society.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/07/04/3260783.htm

“And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer palms of hands or one eye or dress like veil, gloves, headcover, apron), and to draw their veils all over Juyoobihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband’s fathers, or their sons, or their husband’s sons, or their brothers or their brother’s sons, or their sister’s sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islam), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of feminine sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allaah to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful”

[al-Noor 24:31]





Written in a time when women were robbed and/or raped without a second thought

As such the verse is aptly applicable to protect women

But in the modern Australian society I can't see how it's applicable

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/newshome/9783366/no-issues-with-burqa-removal-power-islamic-council/



One religion reading supposedly from pure text passed down from word of mouth - yet you can't decide what it means

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2011 at 10:59pm:

The thing people like you don't like about Muslim immigrants is that they're not like "wogs", "dagos" and "gooks" who came before them, who just back down and let you treat them like dirt because they happen to be new here.... they actually stand up for themselves and demand respect. That's what you don't like isn't it? You prefer nice passive, acquiescent incomers, who you can push around...

Go Abu go! Let's put these Aussies in their place. They WILL bow down to Islam. Sure it will take some time but when it happens the Aussies will be held to account.

salad in wrote on Jul 5^th, 2011 at 11:17am:

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 3rd, 2011 at 10:59pm: The thing people like you don't like about Muslim immigrants is that they're not like "wogs", "dagos" and "gooks" who came before them, who just back down and let you treat them like dirt because they happen to be new here.... they actually stand up for themselves and demand respect. That's what you don't like isn't it? You prefer nice passive, acquiescent incomers, who you can push around... Go Abu go! Let's put these Aussies in their place. They WILL bow down to Islam. Sure it will take some time but when it happens the Aussies will be held to account.

That is what ISLAM requires, of all mankind.

And until that hour arrives ???

There must be constant striving [and wherever practical, actual warfare], against all of 'unbelieving' mankind.






References in the Hadith, show that 'religious fighting' in Allah's cause, is an obligation for moslems...

#1,
"Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #001.002.025


#2,
"A man came to the Prophet and asked, "A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah's Cause?" The Prophet said, "He who fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.065
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.080i


#3,
"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' ...."
hadithsunnah/bukhari #004.052.196


#4,
"I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "The example of a Mujahid [religious fighter] in Allah's Cause-- and Allah knows better who really strives in His Cause----is like a person who fasts and prays continuously. Allah guarantees that He will admit the Mujahid in His Cause into Paradise if he is killed, otherwise He will return him to his home safely with rewards and war booty." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.046

i.e. Mohammed is reported as saying that for a moslem, religious fighting, is [the same as] a religious devotion.

Jihad [religious fighting], is as if a muslim 'fasts and prays continuously'.

And that Allah guarantees that a Mujahid [religious fighter] will enter Paradise, if he is killed.

Yadda wrote on Jul 5^th, 2011 at 11:51am:

i.e. Mohammed is reported as saying that for a moslem, religious fighting, is [the same as] a religious devotion. Jihad [religious fighting], is as if a muslim 'fasts and prays continuously'. And that Allah guarantees that a Mujahid [religious fighter] will enter Paradise, if he is killed.

Exactly Yadda. You have quoted big AL correctly. You Aussies are heading for a pratfall and I wanna be around to kick the shyte out of you (Halla willing of course).

Hey salad in,

I was annoyed, disheartened, by some of your comments, when i first saw them in this forum.

Because, Yadda is a 'slow learner'.

But eventually the penny dropped for Yadda.     ;)

And Yadda the 'slow learner', comprehended something new.

And it is always a pleasant day, when Yadda comprehends something new.




Yadda, the enlightened, slow learner.

Yadda wrote on Jul 5^th, 2011 at 11:51am:

salad in wrote on Jul 5th, 2011 at 11:17am: abu_rashid wrote on Jul 3rd, 2011 at 10:59pm: The thing people like you don't like about Muslim immigrants is that they're not like "wogs", "dagos" and "gooks" who came before them, who just back down and let you treat them like dirt because they happen to be new here.... they actually stand up for themselves and demand respect. That's what you don't like isn't it? You prefer nice passive, acquiescent incomers, who you can push around... Go Abu go! Let's put these Aussies in their place. They WILL bow down to Islam. Sure it will take some time but when it happens the Aussies will be held to account. That is what ISLAM requires, of all mankind. And until that hour arrives ??? There must be constant striving [and wherever practical, actual warfare], against all of 'unbelieving' mankind. References in the Hadith, show that 'religious fighting' in Allah's cause, is an obligation for moslems... #1, "Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." " hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #001.002.025 #2, "A man came to the Prophet and asked, "A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah's Cause?" The Prophet said, "He who fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause." " hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.065 hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.080i #3, "Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' ...." hadithsunnah/bukhari #004.052.196 #4, "I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "The example of a Mujahid [religious fighter] in Allah's Cause-- and Allah knows better who really strives in His Cause----is like a person who fasts and prays continuously. Allah guarantees that He will admit the Mujahid in His Cause into Paradise if he is killed, otherwise He will return him to his home safely with rewards and war booty." " hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.046 i.e. Mohammed is reported as saying that for a moslem, religious fighting, is [the same as] a religious devotion. Jihad [religious fighting], is as if a muslim 'fasts and prays continuously'. And that Allah guarantees that a Mujahid [religious fighter] will enter Paradise, if he is killed.

Just because Yadda believe it does not mean everyone else does, would or should believe it

Just because you believe we should does not mean we should, would or do

If we respect your right to believe then you should believe our right to not believe

Maqqa wrote on Jul 5^th, 2011 at 6:41pm:

Just because Yadda believe it does not mean everyone else does, would or should believe it Just because you believe we should does not mean we should, would or do If we respect your right to believe then you should believe our right to not believe

If Yadda believes someting it's a pretty good reason to believe the exact opposite. I wasn't a Muslim until I read Yadda's posts. Now, of course, I realise that as a devout Muslim appeaser, I'm going to hell with the Muslims.

And so it is

Namaste

Maqqa wrote on Jul 5^th, 2011 at 6:41pm:

Just because Yadda believe(s) it does not mean everyone else does, would or should believe it

Yadda does,    ....not 'believe, it'.

But your local imam, and 1 billion plus moslems worldwide do 'believe, it'.

And if you choose to tell moslems that YOU do not 'believe, it', they will mark you for death, for the crime of 'insulting' their religion/prophet/Allah.

Comprehende' ???



IMAGE...
http://images.sp@m.com/polls/000799261/polls_behead_those_who_insult_islam_london_5534_84585_answer_2_xlarge.jpeg







Maqqa wrote on Jul 5^th, 2011 at 6:41pm:

Just because you believe we should does not mean we should, would or do

#2,
As far as i am concerned Maqqa, you can believe, whatever you want to believe.

I know that i do!

And in the philosophy i have choosen to embrace, not believing, is not a crime.

And i do not consider, not believing, to be a crime.

I just regard not believing [in God], as dumb.


p.s.
And i won't even threaten to cut your head off, or to murder you in any other way, for believing whatever you want to believe.iMaqqa wrote on Jul 5^th, 2011 at 6:41pm:

If we respect your right to believe then you should believe our right to not believe

See my comment above, #2.

Alas Yadda - what you say is true

It is a violent religion

It is a religion that requires domination and dominions

The Catholics tried it and look at where it got them

With China and India emerging as the world powers the Muslims will be worse off

Yeah...we're just shaking in our boots....

Karnal wrote on Jul 5^th, 2011 at 9:11pm:

I wasn't a Muslim until I read Yadda's posts. Now, of course, I realise that as a devout Muslim appeaser, I'm going to hell with the Muslims. And so it is Namaste

Thanks for that vignette. Though for you it was cathartic to relate your life experience, I want to know more of your story. Is Islam a passionate cathexis for you? My religious journey continues. Just this morning on the 7:25am train from Parramatta to the City (limited stops) I renounced my membership of the religion of New Age Islam. I have become a Lukumi and as such I belong to the flock drawn to Santeria. We Lukumi worship and adore Olorun. We do stuff like sacrifice animals. Somehow I don’t think New Age Islam has lost me for long. Already I’m missing the beatings at the hands of my wife and I’m a little intimidated by life outside the bin liner.

I’ll give it a week...maybe two at the most.
Salad In.

Ah, my frien, all are welcome as Islamic appeasers. We do not discriminate. We are not fussy in our faith.

Maqqa wrote on Jul 6^th, 2011 at 6:02pm:

Alas Yadda - what you say is true It is a violent religion It is a religion that requires domination and dominions The Catholics tried it and look at where it got them With China and India emerging as the world powers the Muslims will be worse off

Insh'allah, this dear one will not burn in the sulphurous Karmic Kristian faith.

But in the Muslim faith...

Kabesh!