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http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl General Discussion >> General Board >> did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1313373316 Message started by Grey on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 11:55am

Title: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by Grey on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 11:55am

Science says -

"Dinosaurs (from Greek: δεινός terrible or potent, and σαύρα lizard) are a diverse group of animals that were the dominant terrestrial vertebrates for over 160 million years, from the late Triassic period (about 230 million years ago) until the end of the Cretaceous (about 65 million years ago), "

"Humans (known taxonomically as Homo sapiens,[3][4] Latin for "wise man" or "knowing man")[5] are the only living species in the Homo genus of bipedal primates in Hominidae, the great ape family. Anatomically modern humans originated in Africa about 200,000 years ago, reaching full behavioral modernity around 50,000 years ago."

Creationists say - http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080620161223AAm1e72

That yahoo answers lists the creationist answer as the best is a worry. In fact googling [Dinosaur + man] in various combos gives very little in the way of a scientific view.

Is this evidence of regression?

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by WESLEY.PIPES on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 11:56am

Grey wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 11:55am:

If you post a question, you get to choose the best answer. It's only indicative of the posters opinion.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by Grey on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 12:11pm

Sure but try the google search. It's a worrying trend.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by thelastnail on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 12:18pm

how come Noah didn't make enough room on his boat for the dinosaurs ? LOL

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by Baronvonrort on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 1:49pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 12:18pm:

how come Noah didn't make enough room on his boat for the dinosaurs ? LOL

The did not live within walking distance of Noah's house.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by GoddyofOz on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 2:16pm

I love taking the piss out of my religious mates, and I have to admit, there aren't many these days.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by Yadda on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 2:23pm

Grey wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 11:55am:

Science says -

"Dinosaurs (from Greek: δεινός terrible or potent, and σαύρα lizard) are a diverse group of animals that were the dominant terrestrial vertebrates for over 160 million years, from the late Triassic period (about 230 million years ago) until the end of the Cretaceous (about 65 million years ago), "

"Humans (known taxonomically as Homo sapiens,[3][4] Latin for "wise man" or "knowing man")[5] are the only living species in the Homo genus of bipedal primates in Hominidae, the great ape family. Anatomically modern humans originated in Africa about 200,000 years ago, reaching full behavioral modernity around 50,000 years ago."

"230 million years ago"

"65 million years ago"

"Anatomically modern humans originated in Africa about 200,000 years ago"

Poppycock.

Where is the conclusive proof for the veracity of those dates of when dinosaurs lived ???

There is NO conclusive proof for the veracity of those dates.

Google;
radiometric dating falsehood

The radiometric dating of rocks and fossils to ascertain their age, is 'witchdoctor' science.

A scientist sent rocks from the lava dome of Mount St. Helens, which erupted in 1980, to be dated using radiometric dating.

These lava dome rocks were rated in age, from 350,000 yrs old to 2.8 million years old.

e.g.
"Is the Lava Dome at Mount St. Helens Really a Million Years Old?"
"Why does the lava dome provide an opportunity to test the accuracy of radioisotope dating? There are two reasons. First, radioisotope dating methods can be used mainly on volcanic (igneous) rock, such as dacite. (Fossil-bearing sedimentary rock cannot be directly dated radioisotopically.) Second, the date of formation of the dacite is known. (This is one of the rare instances in which, to the question, "Were you there?", we can answer-"Yes, we were!") It is widely assumed that the radioisotope clock is set at zero and starts ticking when igneous rock solidifies from a molten state.
....In June of 1992, Dr. Austin collected a 15 lb. block of dacite from high on the lava dome. A portion of this sample was crushed, sieved, and processed into a whole rock powder as well as four mineral concentrates. These were submitted for potassium-argon analysis to Geochron Laboratories of Cambridge, MA, a high quality, professional radioisotope dating laboratory. The only information provided to the laboratory was that the samples came from dacite and that "low argon" should be expected. The laboratory was not told that the specimen came from the lava dome at Mount St. Helens and was only 10 years old. The results of this analysis, shown in Figure 2 (below), were recently published.1
....What can one observe about these results? First and foremost is simply that they are wrong. A correct answer would have been "zero argon" indicating that the sample was too young to date by this method. Instead, the results ranged from 0.35-2.8 million years! Why is this?"
http://www.creationism.org/articles/swenson1.htm

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by gizmo_2655 on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 2:32pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 12:18pm:

how come Noah didn't make enough room on his boat for the dinosaurs ? LOL

With the exception of 'Young Earth Creationists'...I've met lots of Christians who accept both evolution AND fossil evidence of dinosaurs...

The YEC's are a relatively small percentage of Christians.....and even some other Christians think they're pretty dumb...

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by franfran on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 2:43pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 2:32pm:

A point I have made several times as well, but the clowns whose posts equate Christianity with Creationism ignore the truth because it spoils their fun....

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by gizmo_2655 on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 2:47pm

Frances wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 2:43pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 2:32pm:

A point I have made several times as well, but the clowns whose posts equate Christianity with Creationism ignore the truth because it spoils their fun....

True, nails and bobby (and a number of others) seem to have a hard time grasping that there are nearly as many 'versions' of christianity as there are christians...

Or as many versions of Religion etc....

I'm not religious (even less so than it_is_the_light is, in point of fact) but even I can see that....

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by Yadda on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 3:12pm

Duh, duh, duh!!!!!

The scientific process folks....

PRESENT EVIDENCE...Present rocks to an accredited laboratory for radiometric dating.

ANALYSE EVIDENCE...Accredited laboratory uses an approved radiometric dating method to determine the age of the submitted rocks.

SCRUTINISE RESULTS...The use of radiometric dating, to determine the age of those rocks, fails to determine the correct age of those rocks.

Conclusion; Using the process of radiometric dating, to determine the age of rocks is unreliable.

+++

ABOVE, I present an example of 'the scientific process'; see the details in my post, #6

But not one of you atheists, who claim to worship at the alter of the scientific process, even recognise what the scientific process is!

Isn't 'the scientific process', the use of the rigour of truth in analysis of evidence, to prove or to disprove a hypothesis ???

In post #6 above, i give an example, where a scientific process PROVES that the use of radiometric dating, to determine the age of rocks, fails to reliably determine the correct age of those rocks.

AND NOT ONE OF YOU, IS WILLING TO CONCEDE THAT TRUTH.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by gizmo_2655 on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 3:50pm

Yadda wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 3:12pm:

Bullshit Yadda.....the decay rates of the various elements used for radiometric dating IS a constant, otherwise it wouldn't be used...

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by muso on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 4:09pm

Yadda wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 3:12pm:

1. That's why you can't rely on just one (radiometric) dating procedure.

2. It's outside the establish age range for the technique(K-Ar dating). The whole idea of using that particular technique to date a recent rock is ludicrous given that it's only used for ancient rocks, and it has a standard error of +/- 50 million years for the oldest rocks. Realistically the youngest item that can be dated with that technique is around 100,000 years, but nobody in their right mind would use it for that purpose. At 500,000 years it's is probably more accurate.

The whole test was contrived to attempt to prove a creationist agenda. Generally those technicans carrying out radiometric dating use a variety of techniques. (They use their brains)

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by Imperium II on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 4:14pm

dem white blackfullas

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by muso on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 4:23pm

It's little bit like using pyrometry to measure the the temperature of liquid nitrogen. It just can't be done.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrometer

I hope you're just cutting and pasting that article, Yadda. I'd be very disappointed if you were that dishonest.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by life_goes_on on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 4:25pm

Quote:

That yahoo answers lists the creationist answer as the best is a worry. In fact googling [Dinosaur + man] in various combos gives very little in the way of a scientific view.

Yes, the Internet has certainly delivered us into the age of misinformation.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by WESLEY.PIPES on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 4:29pm

Life_goes_on wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 4:25pm:

Quote:

That yahoo answers lists the creationist answer as the best is a worry. In fact googling [Dinosaur + man] in various combos gives very little in the way of a scientific view.

Yes, the Internet has certainly delivered us into the age of misinformation.

I blame TV. Just LOOK at this blatant misinformation deliverd under the guise of entertainment.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by life_goes_on on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 4:35pm

... wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 4:29pm:

Life_goes_on wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 4:25pm:

Quote:

That yahoo answers lists the creationist answer as the best is a worry. In fact googling [Dinosaur + man] in various combos gives very little in the way of a scientific view.

Yes, the Internet has certainly delivered us into the age of misinformation.

I blame TV. Just LOOK at this blatant misinformation deliverd under the guise of entertainment.

TV must take some of the blame for the nonsense that's believed these days, but there's no better instrument for the propagation of nonsense than the internet.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by Grey on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 5:08pm

Quote:

ANALYSE EVIDENCE...Accredited laboratory uses an approved radiometric dating method to determine the age of the submitted rocks.

No not really ;D

http://www.noanswersingenesis.org.au/mt_st_helens_dacite_kh.htm

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by Amadd on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 5:20pm

Quote:

did dinosaurs and humans co-exist?

No.
And luckily so, as there would've been many wars between the species without the great man GW Bush to bring about a co-existence like we have today with our friends the fish.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20Jcrk6jGfo

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by NBNMyths on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 5:38pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 2:32pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 12:18pm:

how come Noah didn't make enough room on his boat for the dinosaurs ? LOL

I wonder how those Christians who are not YEC reconcile the content of Bible with evolution and the scientifically accepted age of the Earth?

It's quite clear that the Bible dates the earth at about 5,000 years. So if a Christian is not a young earth creationist, then they must have decided that parts of the Bible are false. So why believe the rest of it? How do you decide which parts are correct, and which are incorrect?

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by pansi1951 on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 5:46pm

NBNMyths wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 5:38pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 2:32pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 12:18pm:

how come Noah didn't make enough room on his boat for the dinosaurs ? LOL

You believe the parts you like, and disbelieve the parts that you dislike.....they seem to find it easy.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by life_goes_on on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 5:55pm

Quote:

You believe the parts you like, and disbelieve the parts that you dislike.....they seem to find it easy.

I think that's the way with a lot of religions, certainly amongst christians, jews and muslims - only a few are rabidly devout and the rest pick and choose which bits of their holy book they choose to follow.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by freediver on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 6:06pm

Yes they most certainly did. I saw Steve Irwin trying to feed his child to one on TV.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by franfran on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 6:20pm

Life_goes_on wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 5:55pm:

Quote:

You believe the parts you like, and disbelieve the parts that you dislike.....they seem to find it easy.

Pius XII’s 1950 encyclical Humani Generis 36–37 says thatCatholics are at liberty to believe creation took a few days or a much longer period, according to how they see the evidence. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states, "Many scientific studies... have splendidly enriched our knowledge of the age and dimensions of the cosmos, the development of life forms, and the appearance of man. These studies invite us to even greater admiration for the greatness of the Creator" (CCC 283).

And is a day a day? Psalm 90:4 says: "A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night".

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by Grey on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 6:48pm

Frances wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 6:20pm:

Life_goes_on wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 5:55pm:

Quote:

You believe the parts you like, and disbelieve the parts that you dislike.....they seem to find it easy.

Ahhh that explains it ;D

http://askville.amazon.com/year-Catholic-church-apologize-putting-Galileo-trial/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=16361834

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1055597/Church-makes--8216-ludicrous-8217-apology-Charles-Darwin--126-years-death.html

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by Oh_Yeah on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 7:55pm

Life_goes_on wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 4:25pm:

Quote:

That yahoo answers lists the creationist answer as the best is a worry. In fact googling [Dinosaur + man] in various combos gives very little in the way of a scientific view.

Yes, the Internet has certainly delivered us into the age of misinformation.

Big money is paid to Google to have priority given in search results. It means that the scientific view doesn't get much of a look in because it can't pay for it.

(hmm reminds me of another science v ideology controversy going around at the moment)

The highest results on a Google search arn't necessarily the most accurate.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by life_goes_on on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 8:21pm

Quote:

Big money is paid to Google to have priority given in search results

Sure, you can pay to have your site be a top search result, but it's not Google you pay. Otherwise the top search results are based upon total hits on those sites.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by freediver on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 8:23pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 7:55pm:

Life_goes_on wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 4:25pm:

Quote:

That yahoo answers lists the creationist answer as the best is a worry. In fact googling [Dinosaur + man] in various combos gives very little in the way of a scientific view.

Yes, the Internet has certainly delivered us into the age of misinformation.

Many articles on this site get the top spot in google. I pay no-one for this, but rely instead on the factual accuracy and general interest in the articles.

Google 'allow whaling'.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by Baronvonrort on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 11:03am

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 5:46pm:

NBNMyths wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 5:38pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 2:32pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 12:18pm:

how come Noah didn't make enough room on his boat for the dinosaurs ? LOL

You believe the parts you like, and disbelieve the parts that you dislike.....they seem to find it easy.

Islam does not allow you to pick and choose which parts to believe in,it is a package deal if you want those 72 white houris with that everlasting erection in Paradise.

Was it pope leo who told the christians not to take the bible seriously?

Quran 2:85

Quote:

So do you believe in part of the scripture and disbelieve in part?
Then what is the recompense for those who do that among you except disgrace in worldly life;and on the day of resurrection they will be sent back to the severest of punishment.
And Allah is not unaware of what you do

http://quran.com/2/85
Read all 3 translations by Pickthal,Yusef Ali and Shakir with Quran translations

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by gizmo_2655 on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 12:39pm

NBNMyths wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 5:38pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 2:32pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 12:18pm:

how come Noah didn't make enough room on his boat for the dinosaurs ? LOL

I think it works along the lines that there is no actual record, in the Bible, of how long the Garden of Eden existed, or for that matter, there's nothing to state that an eternal being would necessarily use a 24 hour day..

The Bible doesn't date the Earth's age at all...the Creation dates were worked out by biblical scholars in the 1600s...

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by Yadda on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 1:25pm

muso wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 4:09pm:

Yadda wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 3:12pm:

muso,

The whole mt_st_helens_dacite dating test was contrived was it ?

+++

Duh....

'RATIONALIZING' RADIOMETRIC DATES?
Woodmorappe (1999), Swenson, and other YECs frequently accuse geochronologists of 'rationalizing away' any anomalous radiometric dates. However, how is the obvious mess in Austin's Figure 4 a 'rationalization'? Why would we expect a young dacite that is full of zoned phenocrysts to give one uniform date? How is the reality of Bowen's Reaction Series a 'rationalization'? How are the limitations of Geochron's equipment a 'rationalization'?
http://www.noanswersingenesis.org.au/mt_st_helens_dacite_kh.htm

Did the laboratory know that it was young dacite ???

i.e.
How could ANYONE [besides Austin and Swenson] know that it was young dacite ???

muso,

Scenario;

I submit some [volcanic] rocks [to an accredited laboratory] for dating.
I ostensibly [i.e. in a normal case] would have no idea how old, or, how young, the [volcanic] rocks submitted for dating are.
i.e.! i.e.! i.e.!
The radiometric dating process [itself] is supposed to be able to reliably determine the age of [volcanic] rocks i have submitted for dating!
Surely, that is the whole point of submitting the [volcanic] rocks to a radiometric dating process !!
i.e.! i.e.! i.e.!
To reliably determine the age of the [volcanic] rocks!!

Q.
So why would Austin and Swenson be at fault.....in submitting those young [volcanic] rocks for a radiometric dating process ???

A.
BECAUSE Austin AND Swenson 'SCIENTIFICALLY', DEMONSTRATED A FLAW IN THE METHOD, THAT IS BEING WIDELY USED, TO 'RELIABLY' DETERMINE THE AGE OF ROCKS AND FOSSILS.

Naughty, naughty, Austin and Swenson !!!!

i.e.
Because Austin and Swenson should NOT try to show how a radiometric dating process could be 'misapplied', and thereby commonly obtain unreliable dating results !
Oh no!
/sarc off

And those who say they support the 'scientific process' are all 'up in arms', over the 'deception' perpetrated by Austin and Swenson.

The holy and sacrosanct 'scientific process' - SHOWN TO BE FLAWED.

LOL

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by thelastnail on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 1:49pm

So when did the dinosaurs become extinct ??

Was it before or after Noahs time or was it that Noah just didn't have enough room for them on his life boat :D LOL

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by franfran on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 1:51pm

Don't you get tired of asking the same stupid question over and over again?

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by thelastnail on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 1:55pm

Frances wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 1:51pm:

Don't you get tired of asking the same stupid question over and over again?

then why don't you give a proper answer instead of some drivel that appeals to simpletons.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by franfran on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 2:00pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 1:55pm:

Frances wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 1:51pm:

Don't you get tired of asking the same stupid question over and over again?

then why don't you give a proper answer instead of some drivel that appeals to simpletons.

I have (and so have a couple of others) given proper answers, but you are not intelligent enough to understand them. Maybe when you graduate to high school we might get somewhere.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by gizmo_2655 on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 2:02pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 1:49pm:

So when did the dinosaurs become extinct ??

Was it before or after Noahs time or was it that Noah just didn't have enough room for them on his life boat :D LOL

Long Long before Noahh's time....ok nails???

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by bobbythebat1 on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 2:08pm

Frances wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 2:00pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 1:55pm:

Frances wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 1:51pm:

Don't you get tired of asking the same stupid question over and over again?

then why don't you give a proper answer instead of some drivel that appeals to simpletons.

I have (and so have a couple of others) given proper answers, but you are not intelligent enough to understand them. Maybe when you graduate to high school we might get somewhere.

Fran - Nail is a university graduate.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by gizmo_2655 on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 2:11pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 2:08pm:

Frances wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 2:00pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 1:55pm:

Frances wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 1:51pm:

Don't you get tired of asking the same stupid question over and over again?

then why don't you give a proper answer instead of some drivel that appeals to simpletons.

I have (and so have a couple of others) given proper answers, but you are not intelligent enough to understand them. Maybe when you graduate to high school we might get somewhere.

Fran - Nail is a university graduate.

Which doesn't mean anything really Bobby....
Lot's of people with 'higher education' have no basic intelligence or commonsense....

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by Yadda on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 2:16pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 1:49pm:

So when did the dinosaurs become extinct ??

Was it before or after Noahs time or was it that Noah just didn't have enough room for them on his life boat :D LOL

lastnail,

You appear to be a poster who always asks questions.

And, you appear to be a poster who always ignores responses to your questions.

And why that is, only you would know.

Re questions on Noah and dinosaurs....

lastnail,

You are the one who is a bible expert....

lastnail questions....

"What happened to the dinosaurs and why aren't they described in your bible ??"

"Is Religion compatible with Evolution?"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1312987029/336#336

Job 40:15
Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by franfran on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 2:16pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 2:08pm:

Fran - Nail is a university graduate.

Maybe he just puts his brain into neutral when he logs ito the forum.

Oh I forgot - electric cars don't have gears - maybe he unplugs the battery then....

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by Imperium II on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:12pm

Quote:

Fran - Nail is a university graduate.

who is impressed by this anymore?

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by gizmo_2655 on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:18pm

barnaby joe wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:12pm:

Quote:

Fran - Nail is a university graduate.

who is impressed by this anymore?

Bobby???

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by Yadda on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:27pm

barnaby joe wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:12pm:

Quote:

Fran - Nail is a university graduate.

who is impressed by this anymore?

Exactly so. ;D

IMO, much of the 'education system' today seems directed towards teaching children 'knowledge' which has been already 'discovered', and 'science' which is already 'known' [....and seems to encourage a 'culture' of the ridiculing of what is 'obviously' outside of current PC knowledge] .

IMO, shouldn't an education system be teaching, and encouraging, children how to independently think for themselves, and how to question every assumption ?

Yadda - who didn't get past high school.

But i can read and write, and i know which way is UP. ;D

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by longweekend58 on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:36pm

NBNMyths wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 5:38pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 2:32pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 12:18pm:

how come Noah didn't make enough room on his boat for the dinosaurs ? LOL

It makes NO such assertion. in fact im the time it was written dates were rarely used and even then in the form of 'XX year in the reign of King XXX'

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by longweekend58 on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:40pm

barnaby joe wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:12pm:

Quote:

Fran - Nail is a university graduate.

who is impressed by this anymore?

anyone who beleives it...

NOBODY except booby

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by longweekend58 on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:43pm

Yadda wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:27pm:

barnaby joe wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:12pm:

Quote:

Fran - Nail is a university graduate.

who is impressed by this anymore?

You do however have the dangerous habit of assuming you are right when the evidence points the other way. teaching people to 'think for themselves' isnt the same as teaching them to think CORRECTLY.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by gizmo_2655 on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:49pm

Yadda wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:27pm:

barnaby joe wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:12pm:

Quote:

Fran - Nail is a university graduate.

who is impressed by this anymore?

The problem, Yadda, is that you DON'T 'think for yourself'...you accept a religious text as the 'last word' on a number of things....Age of the Earth, Evolution, the existence of fossils etc....

I started out the same way as you....however, once I started doing my own thinking, I realised that the Bible does NOT hold all the answers.....I eventually understood that it (the Bible) was written with the educational level of the people it was originally intended for as a major component...
The OT is part belief and part history.....the History part is reasonably accurate (in dates and places) allowing for a slight 'bias' for help from on high (which is perfectly ok)....the 'belief' section needs a few 'grains of salt' in that it contradicts a number of physical finds ( if you take it as literal)......The idea of a 6000 or 8000 year old earth fails, even for an 8 year old, when the 8 yr old in question (ME) is holding a 500 million year old fossil in their hand....

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by thelastnail on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:49pm

Yadda wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 2:16pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 1:49pm:

So when did the dinosaurs become extinct ??

Was it before or after Noahs time or was it that Noah just didn't have enough room for them on his life boat :D LOL

The point is, what you consider to be an answer is just another red herring mixed in with a whole lot of OUT OF CONTEXT quotes from your own bible. That's why I keep asking this seemingly obvious question just like the question about your claim that the speed of light has changed over time and your refusal to properly answer what the speed of light was 6000 years ago.

Do you want to have a another go at answering it without copying and pasting pages full of crap from your bible ??

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by pansi1951 on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:50pm

It is interesting to get two different interpretations of the same verses.
......................................................

15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.

In regards to verse 15, sauropods were vegetarians, but they included many species, and some variation in their dentition and likely diets. Most are thought to have fed mainly on cycads, conifers, and other "rough" tree and shrub foliage. However, since grasses had developed by the later part of the Mesozoic, it's possible that some late Cretaceous sauropods included grasses in their diet. Hippos and elephants eat a variety of vegetation, and among their common foodstuffs are grasses and grains. In the evening, hippos will often come out of the water to "graze." Ancient Egyptians referred to the hippopotamus as the "water-ox.

16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.

Verse 16 could arguably refer to any number of animals.

17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.

Strict creationists often emphasize verse 17, since sauropods have very large tails, whereas hippos and elephants have relatively small tails. However, the passage does not say that the tail was like a cedar tree in size, only in movement. The verse need not even refer to the swaying motion of a tree trunk, but could refer to that of a cedar branch or switch. Indeed, Michael Bright suggests that the description may refer to bristles resembling the cedar's needle-like leaves which are present on the tails of elephants and hippopotami.

18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.

Verse 18 obviously uses figurative terms and does not help distinguish between a variety of possible animals. Some commentators suggest that the entire passage is largely figurative, and may refer to no real creature (living or extinct), but rather a mythical creature or entirely metaphorical one. As evidence of the potentially broad and diverse use of the term "behemoth", note the following uses:

As evidence of the potentially broad and diverse use of the term "behemoth", note the following uses:

I will send against them the fangs of behemoth, the venom of vipers that glide in the dust. (Deut 32:24 NIV)

When my heart was grieved and my spirit embittered, I was senseless and ignorant; I was behemoth before you. (Ps 73:21 NIV)

http://paleo.cc/paluxy/behemoth.htm

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by thelastnail on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:53pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:49pm:

Yadda wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:27pm:

barnaby joe wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:12pm:

Quote:

Fran - Nail is a university graduate.

who is impressed by this anymore?

The problem, Yadda, is that you DON'T 'think for yourself'...you accept a religious text as the 'last word' on a number of things....Age of the Earth, Evolution, the existence of fossils etc....

It's worse than that. If you quoted from the bible they would accuse you of quoting it out of context but when they do it there is never any issue ;)

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by Yadda on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:54pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:43pm:

You do however have the dangerous habit of assuming you are right when the evidence points the other way. teaching people to 'think for themselves' isnt the same as teaching them to think CORRECTLY.

longweekend,

I'm sorry that i come across like that.

And i know that i do have an ego, and often an exuberant POV. ;D

But i hope that i would always encourage the practice of critical thinking, in everyone i encounter.

I certainly do NOT expect people to believe what i believe.

I would only like them to be willing to explore the evidence concerning a matter, for themselves.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by thelastnail on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:59pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:43pm:

Yadda wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:27pm:

barnaby joe wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:12pm:

Quote:

Fran - Nail is a university graduate.

who is impressed by this anymore?

You do however have the dangerous habit of assuming you are right when the evidence points the other way. teaching people to 'think for themselves' isnt the same as teaching them to think CORRECTLY.

But that's exactly what religious instruction does. It teaches people not to think for themselves and to be spoon fed by a corrupt institution which indoctrinates them into a lifetime of religious intolerance as well as being a source of material wealth for the church. You should know this. Just look how you turned out :(

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by gizmo_2655 on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:59pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:53pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:49pm:

Yadda wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:27pm:

barnaby joe wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:12pm:

Quote:

Fran - Nail is a university graduate.

who is impressed by this anymore?

The problem, Yadda, is that you DON'T 'think for yourself'...you accept a religious text as the 'last word' on a number of things....Age of the Earth, Evolution, the existence of fossils etc....

It's worse than that. If you quoted from the bible they would accuse you of quoting it out of context but when they do it there is never any issue ;)

I hope you noticed that I actually DID answer your question re: dinosaurs and noah, nails....

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by thelastnail on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:00pm

Yadda wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:54pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:43pm:

You do however have the dangerous habit of assuming you are right when the evidence points the other way. teaching people to 'think for themselves' isnt the same as teaching them to think CORRECTLY.

so the speed of light 6000 years ago was ??

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by thelastnail on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:01pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:59pm:

I hope you noticed that I actually DID answer your question re: dinosaurs and noah, nails....

I didn't see it. Did they become extinct before or after Noah ??

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by WESLEY.PIPES on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:03pm

Quote:

It is not just established religions that do this, it's now happening in universities, where the 'church of egalitarianism' has established its strongholds.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by gizmo_2655 on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:03pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:01pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:59pm:

I hope you noticed that I actually DID answer your question re: dinosaurs and noah, nails....

I didn't see it. Did they become extinct before or after Noah ??

Long long before...
Despite the YEC idea...the dates aren't all that certain....because, even according to thhe Bible itself it wasn't until well after Noah that there was a set age for people....Noah was 600+years old when he built the Ark and assorted people mentioned live to similar or greater ages...

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by longweekend58 on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:06pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:49pm:

Yadda wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:27pm:

barnaby joe wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:12pm:

Quote:

Fran - Nail is a university graduate.

who is impressed by this anymore?

but once again this 6000 yo earth claim is NOT a biblical claim. it is a claim made by a rather uneducated loser some hundreds of years ago who not only count count but was unaware of the fact that 'history' prior to about 2000 years ago tended to be a record of the GOOD kings or the BAD kings. an awful lot was left out. so the claim that is continually brought up on here (and almost nowhere else) is rubbish.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by gizmo_2655 on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:07pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:00pm:

Yadda wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:54pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:43pm:

You do however have the dangerous habit of assuming you are right when the evidence points the other way. teaching people to 'think for themselves' isnt the same as teaching them to think CORRECTLY.

so the speed of light 6000 years ago was ??

very probably exactly what it is NOW...And the decay rates of the various elements (carbon-14, Argon etc) would also have been the same.....
The alternative is that 'God' is a sh1tstirrer and changes stuff, just to confuse us....which of course, goes against the whole 'Benevolent Father' figure idea....

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by thelastnail on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:08pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:03pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:01pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:59pm:

I hope you noticed that I actually DID answer your question re: dinosaurs and noah, nails....

I didn't see it. Did they become extinct before or after Noah ??

Long long before...

Before the Cretaceous Tertiary I assume ??

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by Yadda on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:09pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:50pm:

.......Some commentators suggest that the entire passage is largely figurative, and may refer to no real creature (living or extinct), but rather a mythical creature or entirely metaphorical one.....

LOL

Dinosaurs in the bible, are prolly just a myth, like the existence of that guy called Jesus is prolly just a myth.

TRUTH...

How easy the scoffers are able to dismiss the 'apparent', when what is apparent, offends their worldview.

Job 40:15
Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.

And he [behemoth] doesn't even have a tail like a tree, either.

He only moves his tail, like a tree.

All is not what it seems. ;D

Honest!

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by gizmo_2655 on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:14pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:08pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:03pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:01pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:59pm:

I hope you noticed that I actually DID answer your question re: dinosaurs and noah, nails....

I didn't see it. Did they become extinct before or after Noah ??

Long long before...

Before the Cretaceous Tertiary I assume ??

Basically....although a few species did hang on after it....crocodilians being the major group...

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by Yadda on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:23pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:07pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:00pm:

so the speed of light 6000 years ago was ??

very probably exactly what it is NOW.

..And the decay rates of the various elements (carbon-14, Argon etc) would also have been the same.....
The alternative is that 'God' is a sh1tstirrer and changes stuff, just to confuse us....which of course, goes against the whole 'Benevolent Father' figure idea....

So giz, the speed of light is always constant, and always has been ???

And the speed of light is NEVER affected by the environment which that light passes through ???

e.g.
Gravity, has no effect upon the speed of light ???

Right ?

"gravitational well" speed of light

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by gizmo_2655 on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:32pm

Yadda wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:23pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:07pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:00pm:

so the speed of light 6000 years ago was ??

very probably exactly what it is NOW.

..And the decay rates of the various elements (carbon-14, Argon etc) would also have been the same.....
The alternative is that 'God' is a sh1tstirrer and changes stuff, just to confuse us....which of course, goes against the whole 'Benevolent Father' figure idea....

No not really...the Speed of Light is a constant...within certain limits, which are described in the relevant theories....

"Gravitational time dilation is the effect of time passing at different rates in regions of different gravitational potential; the lower the gravitational potential, the more slowly time passes. Albert Einstein originally predicted this effect in his theory of relativity and it has since been confirmed by tests of general relativity."

And since gravity on Earth was the same 6000 yrs ago as it is today (as far as we can tell) the the speed of light on Earth would also have been the same 6000 yrs ago, as it is today....

Everyone knows about the differences due to zero gravity and black holes etc.....even mentioning them will just make you look desperate and stupid, ok??

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by longweekend58 on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 5:14pm

the speed of light is usually noted as 'in a vacuum'. the speed of light thru various gases is slower and has even been slowed to 60km/hr! Even Ernie would be happy that light isnt speeding!

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by gizmo_2655 on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 5:18pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 5:14pm:

the speed of light is usually noted as 'in a vacuum'. the speed of light thru various gases is slower and has even been slowed to 60km/hr! Even Ernie would be happy that light isnt speeding!

Exactly.....the 'sol' theories already include the variants for gravity, gases etc....so the 'constant' rule does still apply and most likely also applied 'equally' 6000 years ago....There's no deviation usable by YECs....

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by longweekend58 on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 5:28pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 5:18pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 5:14pm:

the speed of light is usually noted as 'in a vacuum'. the speed of light thru various gases is slower and has even been slowed to 60km/hr! Even Ernie would be happy that light isnt speeding!

it is unlikely the speed of light was different at any time in the past. perhaps very slightly due to univere expansion but still miniscule and virtually impossible to prove.

Gizmo, you might be interested in one experiemtn on slowing the speed of light that turned one rule of physics on its head. It involved a tube containing various gases and semi transarent materials and measuring the speed of light in the tube. Most of the experiments were interesting but unremarkable until one gas came up with the following: The photon of light exited the tube BEFORE it entered. Cause and effect is a principle of science. and now we have it turned on its head. Quantum mechanics cna mess with your head but this was a truly fascinating experiment.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by gizmo_2655 on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 5:32pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 5:28pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 5:18pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 5:14pm:

the speed of light is usually noted as 'in a vacuum'. the speed of light thru various gases is slower and has even been slowed to 60km/hr! Even Ernie would be happy that light isnt speeding!

Yes, I think I heard or read about that one...time travel involving the speed of light...

The only reason I'm even mentioning this is to poke holes in Yadda's 'Young Earth' theories....and the 'dinosaurs coexisted with man' bullshit...

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by longweekend58 on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 5:58pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 5:32pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 5:28pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 5:18pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 5:14pm:

the speed of light is usually noted as 'in a vacuum'. the speed of light thru various gases is slower and has even been slowed to 60km/hr! Even Ernie would be happy that light isnt speeding!

My main point is that the Bible says NOTHING explicitly about dinosaurs. it does talk about 'monsters form the deep' etc from around 3000 years ago but that could be anything. We have a saying in biblical exegisis: where the Bible speaks, we speak; where it is silent, we are silent. IN other words, dont make up stuff! amazing how hard that is for some people from all walks of life and experience.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by thelastnail on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 6:59pm

Yadda wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:23pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:07pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:00pm:

so the speed of light 6000 years ago was ??

very probably exactly what it is NOW.

..And the decay rates of the various elements (carbon-14, Argon etc) would also have been the same.....
The alternative is that 'God' is a sh1tstirrer and changes stuff, just to confuse us....which of course, goes against the whole 'Benevolent Father' figure idea....

so how old is the universe according to your bible ??

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by thelastnail on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 7:03pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 5:32pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 5:28pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 5:18pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 5:14pm:

the speed of light is usually noted as 'in a vacuum'. the speed of light thru various gases is slower and has even been slowed to 60km/hr! Even Ernie would be happy that light isnt speeding!

add to that, no terrestrial bodies can be more than 6000 light years away from the earth ;) LOL

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by gizmo_2655 on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 10:44pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 7:03pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 5:32pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 5:28pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 5:18pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 5:14pm:

the speed of light is usually noted as 'in a vacuum'. the speed of light thru various gases is slower and has even been slowed to 60km/hr! Even Ernie would be happy that light isnt speeding!

add to that, no terrestrial bodies can be more than 6000 light years away from the earth ;) LOL

Well technically, NO terrestrial bodies can exist away from the earth at all...

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by franfran on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 12:13am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 10:44pm:

Well technically, NO terrestrial bodies can exist away from the earth at all...

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by Grey on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 8:05am

Frances wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 12:13am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 10:44pm:

Well technically, NO terrestrial bodies can exist away from the earth at all...

So you're with the landing on the moon all done with smoke and mirrors crowd?

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by boogieman on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 8:28am

Grey wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 11:55am:

But they did co exist. Only in "The Flintstones" though. Maybe the creationists think that is a documentary cartoon series?

Evidence of regression? Don't know about that but I have to say it seems to be largely confined to the USA. And the more I see of the USA the more I suspect the gene pool is pretty shallow. Lots of inbreeding may be the problem.

You know, I had an argument, discussion? no chance, with A few Creationists on a web site about the whole issue.

When I raised dinosaurs as evidence that the world was more than 6000 years old you would not believe what they wrote back.

Apparently there has been a conspiracy of archeologists for the last 100 years where they have een creating and burying fake dinosaur skeletons all around the world.

I smacked my forehead with my hand and said to myself "Of course. It's so obvious, why didn't I see it?"

Regression? Those people make rocks look intelligent and cheese a genius.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by longweekend58 on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 9:00am

Grey wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 8:05am:

Frances wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 12:13am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 10:44pm:

Well technically, NO terrestrial bodies can exist away from the earth at all...

So you're with the landing on the moon all done with smoke and mirrors crowd?

I think you missed the pedantic point that you ar not a terrestrial body id you are not actually ON Terra (Earth).

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by gizmo_2655 on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 9:09am

Grey wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 8:05am:

Frances wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 12:13am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 10:44pm:

Well technically, NO terrestrial bodies can exist away from the earth at all...

So you're with the landing on the moon all done with smoke and mirrors crowd?

No Grey....the term 'terrestrial' means of the land, or of the Earth....so the only terrestrial planet is THIS one..

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by Grey on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 10:47am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 9:09am:

Grey wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 8:05am:

Frances wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 12:13am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 10:44pm:

Well technically, NO terrestrial bodies can exist away from the earth at all...

So you're with the landing on the moon all done with smoke and mirrors crowd?

No Grey....the term 'terrestrial' means of the land, or of the Earth....so the only terrestrial planet is THIS one..

I remain confident that if my mouldering body is found on Mars by an exploration team from the Galactic federation the first thing they will say is, 'WTF is this Earthman doing here?' :D

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by franfran on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 10:53am

Grey wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 10:47am:

I remain confident that if my mouldering body is found on Mars by an exploration team from the Galactic federation the first thing they will say is, 'WTF is this Earthman doing here?' :D

If we take the term 'terrestrial' as meaning of the land, or of the earth, rather than of the Earth, then you would be an extra-terrestrial....

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by thelastnail on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 11:42am

boogieman wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 8:28am:

Grey wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 11:55am:

That's proof of why religious instruction should be discouraged and scorned at. However the church institutions have an ulterior motive to spreading such lies and that is to steal as much money from its gullible parishioners as it can :(

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by franfran on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 1:10pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 11:42am:

That's proof of why religious instruction should be discouraged and scorned at.

No it isn't. Your whole argument is an ad hominem fallacy, or at very best guilt by association. Your reasoning is pathetic.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by gizmo_2655 on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 1:14pm

Frances wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 1:10pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 11:42am:

That's proof of why religious instruction should be discouraged and scorned at.

No it isn't. Your whole argument is an ad hominem fallacy, or at very best guilt by association. Your reasoning is pathetic.

It doesn't work like that nails....
There are dozens of different religions (or possibly hundreds, depending on how you define them) which give religious instruction.......but only a handful do the "Praise the Lord and Pass your Wallet" type of preaching....

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by longweekend58 on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 6:11pm

Frances wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 1:10pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 11:42am:

That's proof of why religious instruction should be discouraged and scorned at.

No it isn't. Your whole argument is an ad hominem fallacy, or at very best guilt by association. Your reasoning is pathetic.

You are generous. I normally find his 'reasoning' nopn-existent.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by thelastnail on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 10:12pm

Frances wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 1:10pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 11:42am:

That's proof of why religious instruction should be discouraged and scorned at.

No it isn't. Your whole argument is an ad hominem fallacy, or at very best guilt by association. Your reasoning is pathetic.

so how old is the Universe and what happened to the dinosaurs ?? :D LOL

I take it that according to your Bible that the Cretaceous Tertiary occurred no more than 6000 years ago and no extra terrestrial body is more than 6000 light years away from the earth. Yeh that really makes your religion and evolution compatible doesn't it ;) LOL

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by thelastnail on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 10:13pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 6:11pm:

Frances wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 1:10pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 11:42am:

That's proof of why religious instruction should be discouraged and scorned at.

No it isn't. Your whole argument is an ad hominem fallacy, or at very best guilt by association. Your reasoning is pathetic.

You are generous. I normally find his 'reasoning' nopn-existent.

that's because your reasoning is totally f.cked up and you have been caught out so many times making a d.ck of yourself ;)

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by jakub on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 12:49am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:03pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:01pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:59pm:

I hope you noticed that I actually DID answer your question re: dinosaurs and noah, nails....

I didn't see it. Did they become extinct before or after Noah ??

OK, the whole Ark thing. There are countless issues about it but this one has been stuck in my head for a while, other issues aside...

Two of each animal, right......

Following?

Carnivores?

Know what I mean?

When the lion got hungry and it ate a zebra, wouldn't that mean no more zebras?

And then what other species would he wipe out with his next meal?

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by Grey on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 1:09am

Frances wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 10:53am:

Grey wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 10:47am:

I remain confident that if my mouldering body is found on Mars by an exploration team from the Galactic federation the first thing they will say is, 'WTF is this Earthman doing here?' :D

If we take the term 'terrestrial' as meaning of the land, or of the earth, rather than of the Earth, then you would be an extra-terrestrial....

Only if you write the dictionary Fran; I'm afraid ;) 'extra' (Latin) beyond, or not of. I remain an Earthman, (terran) no matter where I am.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by Grey on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 1:40am

I accept that Fran doesn't believe in creationism and probably not in Noahs ark. My concern is not with Fran but with the considerable inroads 'creationists' are making into the mainstream, via aspects of the internet and driven by the American right.

I am curious Fran, given that you appear to me to be a sensible and intelligent being, as to which of the fanciful notions in the Bible you do believe?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytoDs2i2rK0&feature=related

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by Grey on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 1:48am

or as others have put it.

Quote:

christianity -

The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Christianity&page=3

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by jakub on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 9:28am

Grey wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 1:48am:

or as others have put it.

Quote:

And climate change is inconceivable to these people...

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by gizmo_2655 on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 12:34pm

azulene wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 9:28am:

Grey wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 1:48am:

or as others have put it.

Quote:

And climate change is inconceivable to these people...

And the idea that man and only man is responsible for climate change is inconceivable to a lot of atheists too...

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by jakub on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 1:37pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 12:34pm:

azulene wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 9:28am:

Grey wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 1:48am:

or as others have put it.

Quote:

And climate change is inconceivable to these people...

And the idea that man and only man is responsible for climate change is inconceivable to a lot of atheists too...

In the 150 year time frame yes, it's all man's doing.

In the geological time frame that's a different story. Maybe this concept they are confused about?

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by gizmo_2655 on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 1:59pm

azulene wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 1:37pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 12:34pm:

azulene wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 9:28am:

Grey wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 1:48am:

or as others have put it.

Quote:

And climate change is inconceivable to these people...

And the idea that man and only man is responsible for climate change is inconceivable to a lot of atheists too...

In the 150 year time frame yes, it's all man's doing.

In the geological time frame that's a different story. Maybe this concept they are confused about?

So 150 years ago, all natural variation in the global climate.....just STOPPED, and man's actions are the only thing now causing changes to climate and weather????

It's no wonder people don't swallow this tripe...

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by muso on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 2:21pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:08pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:03pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:01pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:59pm:

I hope you noticed that I actually DID answer your question re: dinosaurs and noah, nails....

I didn't see it. Did they become extinct before or after Noah ??

Long long before...

Before the Cretaceous Tertiary I assume ??

What's the Cretaceous Tertiary? Is that like the Cretaceous Period, which was the last period of the Mesozoic era?

But yes, the Cretaceous period was the last geological period for the dinosaurs. Tyrannosaurus Rex was Cretaceous.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by gizmo_2655 on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 2:22pm

muso wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 2:21pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:08pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:03pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:01pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:59pm:

I hope you noticed that I actually DID answer your question re: dinosaurs and noah, nails....

I didn't see it. Did they become extinct before or after Noah ??

Long long before...

Before the Cretaceous Tertiary I assume ??

What's the Cretaceous Tertiary? Is that like the Cretaceous Period, which was the last period of the Mesozoic era?

The Cretaceous Tertiary was the mass extinction at the end of the Cretaceous Period...

The mass die-off of the sauropods and larger therapod dinosaurs

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by muso on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 2:23pm

Ah - I see what he means now - the KT boundary .

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by gizmo_2655 on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 2:24pm

muso wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 2:23pm:

Ah - I see what he means now - the KT boundary .

Yeah..that's the one

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by boogieman on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 3:45pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 11:42am:

boogieman wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 8:28am:

Grey wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 11:55am:

Hey, Listen up. I've just about had enough of this. Fred and Barney are real and so are Wilma and Betty. Hell, they were even in a movie. I won't take any more lies about them and their dinosaur. They were a great team and always will be!!

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by boogieman on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 3:48pm

Frances wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 1:10pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 11:42am:

That's proof of why religious instruction should be discouraged and scorned at.

No it isn't. Your whole argument is an ad hominem fallacy, or at very best guilt by association. Your reasoning is pathetic.

There there. Consider I've just patted you on the head to calm you down. Go back to reading your comics, err Bible and try not to get upset again. You know the head nurse is worried about your behaviour at this hospital, the Ad Hominem home for fallacious believers.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by boogieman on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 3:55pm

Hello,

This is directed to all those of you who believe in God. Firstly I ask you a question, simple one.

Have you read the Bible?

If you have and you are confident in your belief let's engage in a discussion about this topic.

Are you up for it or just another group of people who are willing to say something but can't back it up.

I should warn you that the last person to take up my challenge lost her faith blamed me for that. Go figure.

Are you ready to test your faith and beliefs? I bet you are not so show us, the non believers, your fear and lack of commitment and avoid my challenge to you.

I am deadly serious and there will be no mocking of snide remarks etc. Just a real discussion where I ask you to listen, think and answer as I shall.

Anyone? Anyone?

Don't be stressed if I take a while getting back to you, I will. I just have a family and a life too you see.

If you do want to do this could you please start with a statement of your beliefs about God, Jesus and the Bible and anything else that you think is a part of it for you.?

Thank you.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by jakub on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 4:38pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 1:59pm:

azulene wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 1:37pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 12:34pm:

azulene wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 9:28am:

Grey wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 1:48am:

or as others have put it.

Quote:

And climate change is inconceivable to these people...

And the idea that man and only man is responsible for climate change is inconceivable to a lot of atheists too...

In the 150 year time frame yes, it's all man's doing.

In the geological time frame that's a different story. Maybe this concept they are confused about?

Let me put it like this, with the help of some Priests...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25N-4zrk390

The geological timeframe is big and gradual (usually stated in tens or hundreds of millions of years). 150 years is pretty much insignificant geologically so in that time the natural diference would be almost immeasurable. We have however increased CO2 by 40% in 150 years. This has never been observed in natural records.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by Grey on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 4:53pm

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by NBNMyths on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 8:10pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 3:36pm:

NBNMyths wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 5:38pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 2:32pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 15^th, 2011 at 12:18pm:

how come Noah didn't make enough room on his boat for the dinosaurs ? LOL

It makes NO such assertion. in fact im the time it was written dates were rarely used and even then in the form of 'XX year in the reign of King XXX'

Perhaps I should have been more clear. While the Bible doesn't specifically say what year the Earth was "created", that data can be calculated with reasonable accuracy by using other known times and durations that are given in the bible. Numerous Biblical scholars (eg Ussher) have made such a calculation, and the dates are invariably in the "thousands of years" scale when determined by information in the Bible.

While it's quite plausible that these estimates may be out by a few thousand years, there is no way they are out by a few billion years, which they would have to be for the YEC hypothesis to be taken seriously.

There is no plausible way that one could argue the bible depicts events which took place (as we know they did) billions of years ago.

Hence, many parts of the bible are demonstrably false. So, my question stands: How do Christians decide which parts of the Bible they believe, and which ones they don't?

And for that matter, how do they decide which moral judgements and positions should be adopted, and which should be left in the past? Do we still think rapists should be forced to marry their victims, for example? (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)

The list of contradictions in the Bible are enough to make anyone's head spin, so how does one explain them and decide which of the contradictory statements is the correct one?
http://www.evilbible.com/contradictions.htm

I'm being quite serious here. Trying to be somewhat objective, if someone presented you with a single book (whose origin is only explained by itself) as evidence, and on the opposing side you had the weight of scientific research and evidence, which side would you believe?

Let's face it people, the Bible is a wonderful storybook written by primitive, imperfect beings. It presents some good morals for society and I agree with many of the positions expressed therein. However, this does not change the fact that as a factually-accurate source of historical information it is sorely lacking. The Bible's demonstrable inaccuracies grow larger with every new scientific discovery. This is possibly why Christianity is a slowly dying religion and secularism is the fastest growing "religious" group in the developed World today.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by NBNMyths on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 8:11pm

double post

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by boogieman on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 9:00pm

[

With the exception of 'Young Earth Creationists'...I've met lots of Christians who accept both evolution AND fossil evidence of dinosaurs...

The YEC's are a relatively small percentage of Christians.....and even some other Christians think they're pretty dumb...[/quote]

I wonder how those Christians who are not YEC reconcile the content of Bible with evolution and the scientifically accepted age of the Earth?

It's quite clear that the Bible dates the earth at about 5,000 years. So if a Christian is not a young earth creationist, then they must have decided that parts of the Bible are false. So why believe the rest of it? How do you decide which parts are correct, and which are incorrect?[/quote]

It makes NO such assertion. in fact im the time it was written dates were rarely used and even then in the form of 'XX year in the reign of King XXX'[/quote]

Perhaps I should have been more clear. While the Bible doesn't specifically say what year the Earth was "created", that data can be calculated with reasonable accuracy by using other known times and durations that are given in the bible. Numerous Biblical scholars (eg Ussher) have made such a calculation, and the dates are invariably in the "thousands of years" scale when determined by information in the Bible.

While it's quite plausible that these estimates may be out by a few thousand years, there is no way they are out by a few billion years, which they would have to be for the YEC hypothesis to be taken seriously.

There is no plausible way that one could argue the bible depicts events which took place (as we know they did) billions of years ago.

Hence, many parts of the bible are demonstrably false. So, my question stands: How do Christians decide which parts of the Bible they believe, and which ones they don't?

And for that matter, how do they decide which moral judgements and positions should be adopted, and which should be left in the past? Do we still think rapists should be forced to marry their victims, for example? (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)

The list of contradictions in the Bible are enough to make anyone's head spin, so how does one explain them and decide which of the contradictory statements is the correct one?
http://www.evilbible.com/contradictions.htm

I'm being quite serious here. Trying to be somewhat objective, if someone presented you with a single book (whose origin is only explained by itself) as evidence, and on the opposing side you had the weight of scientific research and evidence, which side would you believe?

Let's face it people, the Bible is a wonderful storybook written by primitive, imperfect beings. It presents some good morals for society and I agree with many of the positions expressed therein. However, this does not change the fact that as a factually-accurate source of historical information it is sorely lacking. The Bible's demonstrable inaccuracies grow larger with every new scientific discovery. This is possibly why Christianity is a slowly dying religion and secularism is the fastest growing "religious" group in the developed World today.

[/quote]

Hello there,

You say you arer quite serious about what you are saying. Just above you'll find a post from me challenging anyone with faith to discuss your faith and beliefs.

Why have you ignored that challenge? I needn't ask really need I? As I predicted none of you has the actual strength of belief to accept my challenge. I say Christianity is a fraud and there is no God.

Show yopurself, discuss this and face the music instead of hiding down there beneath the pews. thinkin I can't see you. I can smell the sweat actually as you worry about the truth being shoved down your throat and you having to accept it as fact.

Yiou dare to say the Bible dates the earth at about 5000 years. You have not read the Bib le then as there is nothing at all about that in it.

If you Google The Big Bang image you will find an image of the Big Bang, the light from the afterglow. And the date opf that Bi gBang can be and has been measured. You see images travel at the speed of light so if we can see an image we can tell from the light forming that image how far away it is and how long the image took to get here.

This is called science and it's provable facts I am talking about here. The light from that image is actually many millions of light years away. Do you get that? Slightly older than 5000 years. We came from the Big Bang of course and we formed at the time of the BigBang and have been moving ever since.

But you are happy to believe the absolute pap ypu are spouting. I do feel sorry, not for you as you appear to be an idiot, but for any children you may have as you'll fill their headsa with the same crap yours is filled with. Non porous cement most likely.

Anyone up for a challenge? Gutless wonders. Won't stand up for your so called God huh? Does the name Peter ring a bell for any of you. Betray away.

And of course none of you has actually read the Bible. I have. That's why you let your faith fail so, you don't have the courage of you bullshit convictions do you? Cowards, the lot of you believers. Free crosses for all who try. BYO nails.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by NBNMyths on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 9:54pm

boogieman wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 9:00pm:

[
Hello there,

You say you arer quite serious about what you are saying. Just above you'll find a post from me challenging anyone with faith to discuss your faith and beliefs.

Why have you ignored that challenge? I needn't ask really need I? As I predicted none of you has the actual strength of belief to accept my challenge. I say Christianity is a fraud and there is no God.

Show yopurself, discuss this and face the music instead of hiding down there beneath the pews. thinkin I can't see you. I can smell the sweat actually as you worry about the truth being shoved down your throat and you having to accept it as fact.

Yiou dare to say the Bible dates the earth at about 5000 years. You have not read the Bib le then as there is nothing at all about that in it.

If you Google The Big Bang image you will find an image of the Big Bang, the light from the afterglow. And the date opf that Bi gBang can be and has been measured. You see images travel at the speed of light so if we can see an image we can tell from the light forming that image how far away it is and how long the image took to get here.

This is called science and it's provable facts I am talking about here. The light from that image is actually many millions of light years away. Do you get that? Slightly older than 5000 years. We came from the Big Bang of course and we formed at the time of the BigBang and have been moving ever since.

But you are happy to believe the absolute pap ypu are spouting. I do feel sorry, not for you as you appear to be an idiot, but for any children you may have as you'll fill their headsa with the same crap yours is filled with. Non porous cement most likely.

Anyone up for a challenge? Gutless wonders. Won't stand up for your so called God huh? Does the name Peter ring a bell for any of you. Betray away.

And of course none of you has actually read the Bible. I have. That's why you let your faith fail so, you don't have the courage of you bullshit convictions do you? Cowards, the lot of you believers. Free crosses for all who try. BYO nails.

Is that directed at me? If so, I think you've misunderstood my position. I'm with you. I back science, not theology. I'm saying the thought that the Universe and the Earth are just thousands of years old is patently ridiculous.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by thelastnail on Aug 19^th, 2011 at 1:35am

NBNMyths wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 9:54pm:

boogieman wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 9:00pm:

Yadda and franfran believe it :) LOL

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by Grey on Aug 19^th, 2011 at 6:49am

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 19^th, 2011 at 1:35am:

Yadda and franfran believe it :) LOL

You're wrong Nail, Fran is NOT a YEC.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by boogieman on Aug 19^th, 2011 at 7:36am

NBNMyths wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 9:54pm:

boogieman wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 9:00pm:

Sorry mate, It's directed at the person making the 5000 year claim. Good to hear a fellow logic.

I find it so interesting that none of the believers is willing to have a real discussion. Like REM perhaps? That's them in the corner, losing their religion.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by Yadda on Aug 19^th, 2011 at 10:45am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:32pm:

Yadda wrote on Aug 16^th, 2011 at 4:23pm:

giz,

For your further consideration....

Seven Years of Starlight and Time
by D. Russell Humphreys, Ph.D.
http://www.icr.org/article/seven-years-starlight-time/

Quote:

....A 1987 monograph by Australian creationist Barry Setterfield3 had stimulated me to examine this problem. He suggested that the speed of light, c, was much faster in the past. His particular "c-decay" model turned out to have problems with both data and physics theory, problems I outlined in appendix A of my book. But he deserves credit for focusing creationist attention on cosmology and for setting the example of offering a very creative solution to the problem.

The monograph revived my interest in Einstein's general theory of relativity, which I had neglected since graduate school. Physicists like me often use Einstein's special theory of relativity dealing with the effects of high speeds and have found it indispensable. Few of us have occasion to use general relativity, which deals with effects of gravity and acceleration not easily attainable in the laboratory. But it is an essential tool for astrophysics and cosmology.

Until the last decade many young-earth creationists had avoided relativity, and consequently astrophysics and cosmology. The main reason was a dislike of some of the philosophical implications and logical paradoxes associated with the theory. However, I found that the bad philosophy and paradoxes come not from the mathematics of relativity itself, but rather from a bad interpretation of the mathematics....

....What the Big Bang Theorists Don't Tell You

As I began to study cosmology, I carried into it the usual island universe misconception of the big bang theory which most people have, including most scientists and even many astronomers. Like most people, I pictured the big bang as beginning with tiny "cosmic egg," or small ball of hot matter exploding outward into an empty three-dimensional space. After billions of years the matter would cluster into galaxies, groups of hundreds of billions of stars like our own Milky Way galaxy. The resulting hundreds of billions of galaxies would themselves be clustered into an "island" of galaxies in a "sea" of otherwise empty space.

But in 1991, Roy Holt, a fellow creationist physicist, made me realize that my picture of the big bang theory was wrong. Roy, having the same preconception as I did, pointed out an inconsistency. In the alleged big bang's beginning, he said, the intense gravity from all that concentrated matter would cause it to be deep in a black hole, out of which the matter should not be able to emerge. Back-of-envelope calculations supported his point. If our understanding of the implications of the big bang were right, it could never happen!

....Cosmic phenomena are so complex and beyond our ken that it would be especially arrogant to assume God couldn't do what He said He did simply because we can't imagine how.

Title: Re: did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
Post by thelastnail on Aug 19^th, 2011 at 12:28pm

Yadda wrote on Aug 19^th, 2011 at 10:45am:

giz,

For your further consideration....

Seven Years of Starlight and Time
by D. Russell Humphreys, Ph.D.
http://www.icr.org/article/seven-years-starlight-time/
[quote]
[i][color=#0000ff]
....A 1987 monograph by Australian creationist Barry Setterfield3 had stimulated me to examine this problem. He suggested that the speed of light, c, was much faster in the past. His particular "c-decay" model turned out to have problems with both data and physics theory, problems I outlined in appendix A of my book. But he deserves credit for focusing creationist attention on cosmology and for setting the example of offering a very creative solution to the problem.

Yes but how much slower/faster was it 6000 years ago and the evidence for it is ??