Quote:

The chief negotiator in charge of peace talks in Afghanistan has been assassinated at his home in the capital Kabul in a major blow to the peace process in the war-torn country. Former Afghan president Burhanuddin Rabbani died when a suicide bomber claiming to be a Taliban negotiator detonated explosives hidden in his turban. The bomb was detonated as the attacker hugged Professor Rabbani - the head of Afghanistan's High Peace Council established last year by president Hamid Karzai - in greeting. The attacker and an accomplice had been invited into Professor Rabbani's Kabul home because it was thought they were emissaries bringing special messages from the Taliban. Professor Rabbani was in charge of the difficult and dangerous negotiations between the government and its opponents, including the Taliban. Afghan president Hamid Karzai, has condemned the assassination and cut short his visit to the United Nations General Assembly in New York. The attack comes only a week after insurgents launched an audacious attack on the US embassy and International Security Assistance Force headquarters in the capital. Afghanistan correspondent Sally Sara says the attack has raised renewed questions about security in the Afghan capital. A week ago the insurgents struck a building next to the US embassy and also the headquarters of the International Security Assistance Force. They were able to get up high in that building and fire down. This time they’ve struck Mr Rabbani's compound, which is just at the rear of the US embassy. This is a worrying sign for security forces that the insurgents have yet again been able to get into this district. The High Peace Council has made little clear progress towards peace talks with the Taliban and Professor Rabbani's assassination seems to have dealt a serious blow to its chances of doing so any time soon. Professor Rabbani's supporters regarded him as a wise scholar, but his critics accused him of human rights abuses. News of his death reached Mr Karzai at the UN headquarters in New York just before he held talks with his US counterpart Barack Obama. But Mr Karzai, along with the United States and other countries, insisted the peace process would not be derailed. "He was among the few people in Afghanistan with the distinction that we cannot easily find in societies. A terrible loss, but as you rightly said this would not deter us from continuing the path that we have," he said. Mr Obama said the killing was a "senseless act of violence" that would not crush the Afghan drive for freedom while NATO secretary-general Anders Fogh Rasmussen added that those behind the killing "will not prevail." Kabul criminal investigations chief Mohammad Zaher said two men "negotiating with Rabbani on behalf of the Taliban" arrived at his house, one with explosives hidden in his turban. "He approached Rabbani and detonated his explosives. Professor Rabbani was martyred and four others including Massom Stanikzai (his deputy) were injured." A member of the High Peace Council, Fazel Karim Aymaq, said the men had come with "special messages" from the Taliban and were "very trusted." "One of them put his head on the shoulder of Rabbani and detonated the explosives hidden in his turban, martyring Rabbani," he added. Police said three others including, Mr Stanikzai, were also injured in the attack. Interior ministry spokesman Siddiq Siddqui said Mr Stanikzai's condition was "better and we hope he will recover." The Taliban were not immediately reachable for comment, but the insurgency led by its militia has hit Kabul increasingly hard in recent months. There are 140,000 international troops in Afghanistan fighting the Taliban, mainly from the US and under NATO command, but all combat forces are due to leave by the end of 2014. Professor Rabbani's house where the bomber struck is very close to the US embassy, making it the second attack within a week in Kabul's supposedly secure diplomatic zone. Last week, 14 people died in a 19-hour siege targeting the embassy. Security forces are bracing for further insurgent attacks in the capital. Professor Rabbani, 71, was president of Afghanistan from 1992 until the Taliban took power in 1996 during the country's civil war. Mr Karzai's brainchild, the High Peace Council was intended to open a dialogue with insurgents who have been trying to bring down his government since the US-led invasion overthrew their regime but has seen little success. The 68-member council, hand-picked by the president, was inaugurated in October 2010. Delivering his acceptance speech, Professor Rabbani said he was "confident" that peace was possible, according to a statement from the palace. "I hope we are able to take major steps in bringing peace and fulfil our duties with tireless effort and help from God," he was quoted as saying. According to Human Rights Watch, Professor Rabbani was among prominent Afghans implicated in war crimes during the brutal fighting that killed or displaced hundreds of thousands of Afghans in the early 1990s.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-09-21/afghan-peace-council-head-killed/2908890

Deborahmac09 wrote on Sep 21^st, 2011 at 9:23am:

Quote: According to Human Rights Watch, Professor Rabbani was among prominent Afghans implicated in war crimes during the brutal fighting that killed or displaced hundreds of thousands of Afghans in the early 1990s. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-09-21/afghan-peace-council-head-killed/2908890

What ?
One of our moslem 'partners for peace' in Afghanistan, a war suspected war criminal ?
Surely not.
/sarc off

Top Afghan peace negotiator killed in bomb attack - well, he wasn't much of a negotiator, was he?

Soren wrote on Sep 21^st, 2011 at 12:11pm:

Top Afghan peace negotiator killed in bomb attack - well, he wasn't much of a negotiator, was he?

I suppose it would be too much to expect they'll break off negotiations with thse dogs and step up wiping them out?

Soren wrote on Sep 21^st, 2011 at 12:11pm:

Top Afghan peace negotiator killed in bomb attack - well, he wasn't much of a negotiator, was he?

You are obviously labouring under some kind of misapprehension Soren.

It was just that Burhanuddin Rabbani, was on the wrong side of the ISLAMIC 'peace process'.



But really, ISLAM has a sure fire method of achieving 'peace'.

Merely annihilate all of your critics, and annihilate all of your perceived enemies,
......RESULTANT CIRCUMSTANCE; absolute 'peace'.

It is only the intervening period, the period of 'achieving' the peace, which always 'presents' to outside observers as a 'problem'.

But once all of your critics, and all of your perceived enemies are annihilated, Allah's peace will descend upon this blessed earth.

Allah guarantees it.

Yadda wrote on Sep 21^st, 2011 at 12:33pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 21st, 2011 at 12:11pm: Top Afghan peace negotiator killed in bomb attack - well, he wasn't much of a negotiator, was he? You are obviously labouring under some kind of misapprehension Soren. It was just that Burhanuddin Rabbani, was on the wrong side of the ISLAMIC 'peace process'. But really, ISLAM has a sure fire method of achieving 'peace'. Merely annihilate all of your critics, and annihilate all of your perceived enemies, ......RESULTANT CIRCUMSTANCE; absolute 'peace'. It is only the intervening period, the period of 'achieving' the peace, which always 'presents' to outside observers as a 'problem'. But once all of your critics, and all of your perceived enemies are annihilated, Allah's peace will descend upon this blessed earth. Allah guarantees it.

Ah, my friend, this is not Islamic method for peace - this is the best method. Annihilate all critics, and you shall have peace.

As great English poet writes:

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

...

Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,

Rudyard Kipling: If.

Take up the White Man's burden--
Send forth the best ye breed--
Go bind your sons to exile
To serve your captives' need;
To wait in heavy harness,
On fluttered folk and wild--
Your new-caught, sullen peoples,
Half-devil and half-child.

Take up the White Man's burden--
In patience to abide,
To veil the threat of terror
And check the show of pride;
By open speech and simple,
An hundred times made plain
To seek another's profit,
And work another's gain.

Take up the White Man's burden--
The savage wars of peace--
Fill full the mouth of Famine
And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
The end for others sought,
Watch sloth and heathen Folly
Bring all your hopes to nought.

It is truth, my dear. This is very heavy burden indeed.

Note the last lines. Hopes shall come to nought.

This is good thinkings also, dear.

Karnal wrote on Sep 21^st, 2011 at 1:26pm:

It is truth, my dear. This is very heavy burden indeed. Note the last lines. Hopes shall come to nought.

Not in my philosophy.


Psalms 146:5
Happy is he that hath the God of Jacob for his help, whose hope is in the LORD his God:


Psalms 147:11
The LORD taketh pleasure in them that fear him, in those that hope in his mercy.


Jeremiah 17:5
Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.
6  For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited.
7  Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.






Job 19:25
For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

Leave your hope in the Gud of Jacob, friend. Have no hopes in this world. Only in paradise shall your hopes bear fruit, friend, or in hell.

It is so, isn't it?

Karnal wrote on Sep 21^st, 2011 at 1:37pm:

Leave your hope in the Gud of Jacob, friend. Have no hopes in this world. Only in paradise shall your hopes bear fruit, friend, or in hell. It is so, isn't it?

LOL



No, it is not so.


Job 19:25
For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:


I trust in God.

The God you do not know.

The God you refuse to know.

My dear brother, we should not presume another's knowledge of the one Gud. There are many fools in paradise, friend, and many smart men in hell.

Isn't it?

Grey wrote on Sep 21^st, 2011 at 12:23pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 21st, 2011 at 12:11pm: Top Afghan peace negotiator killed in bomb attack - well, he wasn't much of a negotiator, was he? I suppose it would be too much to expect they'll break off negotiations with thse dogs and step up wiping them out?

There is no hope of negotiating peace with animals, oh sorry animals are better behaved than that.

Quote:

One of our moslem 'partners for peace' in Afghanistan, a war suspected war criminal ?

As they say... birds of a feather.

Obviously your only "partners" would be criminals, warlords, drug barons, tyrants and dictators, as it's always been.

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 21^st, 2011 at 10:35pm:

Quote: One of our moslem 'partners for peace' in Afghanistan, a war suspected war criminal ? criminals, warlords, drug barons, tyrants and dictators

There is no other kind of Afghan.

Quote:

Take up the White Man's burden-- The savage wars of peace-- Fill full the mouth of Famine And bid the sickness cease;

I think you have an over-inflated opinion of yourself and your race soren. All the "white man" brought to most countries they entered was the complete opposite, famine and bloodshed. How many tens of millions perished in famines in India? Interestingly whilst the British were shipping local produce out of the famine stricken areas, to be sent back home to mother England. How is it that since the West took over most of Africa, the place has become nothing but a hellhole full of famine stricken and war ravaged peoples? why is it that for well over a millennium prior to that arrival, Africa didn't see anything like this? In fact it saw a flourishing of trade, learning, economic prosperity and peace.

The white man's burden is his guilty conscience for all the mayhem and suffering he's caused, that's about it.

Quote:

There is no other kind of Afghan.

So who is it that is nobly defending their land against the invading swine?

Soren wrote on Sep 21^st, 2011 at 10:39pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 21st, 2011 at 10:35pm: Quote: One of our moslem 'partners for peace' in Afghanistan, a war suspected war criminal ? criminals, warlords, drug barons, tyrants and dictators There is no other kind of Afghan.

My sister, you know much about the Afghani peoples. You are a CIA? Taliban? US Defence Intelligence? World Vision?

You are a good mother.

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 21^st, 2011 at 10:42pm:

Quote: There is no other kind of Afghan. So who is it that is nobly defending their land against the invading swine?

One noble Afghan killing another noble Afghan under the guise of peace negotiations with each other - something for the whole world to imitate.
I can feel a Nobel Peace Prize coming on.

Why would the taliban bother with peace negotiations with traitors when they are on the cusp of victory?

Would you negotiatiate while your country was still under foreign occupation?

Soren wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2011 at 9:47am:

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 21st, 2011 at 10:42pm: Quote: There is no other kind of Afghan. So who is it that is nobly defending their land against the invading swine? One noble Afghan killing another noble Afghan under the guise of peace negotiations with each other - something for the whole world to imitate. I can feel a Nobel Peace Prize coming on.

Yes, Mother, this may happen. The commitee will have to decide. Prize should go to George Bush Jnr, Karzai, Taliban, all.

Opium and arms sales are up. This is good for the world peace and security.

Falah, my brother, you are mistaken. Taliban should negotiate peace. They should make jihad too, in the shadows. This is the way it is done, my brother, always keeping your eyes on the main game.

Salaam Aleikum.

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 21^st, 2011 at 10:40pm:

Quote: Take up the White Man's burden-- The savage wars of peace-- Fill full the mouth of Famine And bid the sickness cease; I think you have an over-inflated opinion of yourself and your race soren. All the "white man" brought to most countries they entered was the complete opposite, famine and bloodshed. How many tens of millions perished in famines in India? Interestingly whilst the British were shipping local produce out of the famine stricken areas, to be sent back home to mother England. #1, How is it that since the West took over most of Africa, the place has become nothing but a hellhole full of famine stricken and war ravaged peoples? #2, why is it that for well over a millennium prior to that arrival, Africa didn't see anything like this? #3, In fact it saw a flourishing of trade, learning, economic prosperity and peace. The white man's burden is his guilty conscience for all the mayhem and suffering he's caused, that's about it.

#1,
Choices have consequences.
They always have.
Today, Africans are making their own choices, and today, Africans are also reaping their own consequences.
Wherever you may look in Africa today [and indeed in the whole world], this is true.
Making scapegoats of others is not a way forward.
[Well, it is a 'way forward' which many do choose. But it bears only bitter fruit. Because it is a path which teaches a continuance of avoiding accepting responsibility for our own choices.  And moslems themselves, are cursed by that choice, of projection of blame onto others - for their [moslem] choices.]


#2, #3,
Tripe and projection [of blame, and guilt].


Coming back to #2,
African politics was [even before the arrival of Europeans] always 'guided' by tribal rivalries and by ruthless tribal politics.
Just as it is today.

Africans learnt nothing, or very little, from their experience of white, European culture.

Zimbabwe, South Africa ?

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 21^st, 2011 at 10:40pm:

The white man's burden is his guilty conscience for all the mayhem and suffering he's caused, that's about it.

It may be so, brother Abu, but our lovey Soren gives to Mother Theresa, Red Cross, World Visions, many charities. It is all good.

I think she is sad for the white man. She wants him to be strong again, like a good husband. She fears the certainty and resolve of the tinted races, and laments the demise of Mother England. She remembers our empire's dear Queen Victoria, who believed that the purpose of civilization is to protect the chastity of the young ladies, may Gud bless them.

Now the young ladies wears cloth and makeup, takes intoxicants, makes sexy with young man, it is no good, brother. Now, only the Taliban can restore the chastity our sister Soren longs for. But our sister fears this new empire. Why?

The future, friends, lies in Pakistan. Here, they send many fighters to Afghanistan. They make jihad with India and Kashmir. They have the world's best schools and madrassahs. They also have a big bomb.

Kabesh, the floods are bad again this year. From this rain and mud, however, many flowers shall bloom for jihad. Insh'allah, many shall join the struggle in Afghanistan and Kashmir.

This is what our sister means by the white man's burden, my brother.

Soren wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2011 at 9:47am:

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 21st, 2011 at 10:42pm: Quote: There is no other kind of Afghan. So who is it that is nobly defending their land against the invading swine? One noble Afghan killing another noble Afghan under the guise of peace negotiations with each other - something for the whole world to imitate. I can feel a Nobel Peace Prize coming on.

They gave one to that corrupt, deceitful, self aggrandising murderer Arafat.


Google;
Arafat died a billionaire

.....while the, his, 'Palestinian' people lived in tents throughout the M.E.

Yadda wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2011 at 11:07am:

They gave one to that corrupt, deceitful, self aggrandising murderer Arafat. Google; Arafat died a billionaire .....while the, his, 'Palestinian' people lived in tents throughout the M.E.

The Israelis knew Arafat was a corrupt secularist; that is why the Israelis assassinated and imprisoned other Palestinian leaders but allowed Arafat to continue to operate within Israeli-occupied areas.

falah wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2011 at 11:19am:

Yadda wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 11:07am: They gave one to that corrupt, deceitful, self aggrandising murderer Arafat. Google; Arafat died a billionaire .....while the, his, 'Palestinian' people lived in tents throughout the M.E. The Israelis knew Arafat was a corrupt secularist; that is why the Israelis assassinated and imprisoned other Palestinian leaders but allowed Arafat to continue to operate within Israeli-occupied areas.

Yes falah,   ....its all the fault of those wicked Joos, again.

Wherever you can see some human misery in the world, those wicked Joos, will be the cause.

Mark my words!!!
/sarc off





p.s.

falah,

I thought for sure, that you were going to tell us all, that Arafat was an innocent moslem, and a saint to his people.

falah wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2011 at 11:19am:

Yadda wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 11:07am: They gave one to that corrupt, deceitful, self aggrandising murderer Arafat. Google; Arafat died a billionaire .....while the, his, 'Palestinian' people lived in tents throughout the M.E. The Israelis knew Arafat was a corrupt secularist; that is why the Israelis assassinated and imprisoned other Palestinian leaders but allowed Arafat to continue to operate within Israeli-occupied areas.

P.S.

falah,

There is not one moslem in the whole world, who is not 'a corrupt secularist'.

It goes with the territory [.....of being a moslem].

The only thing which you moslems are after, is #1, the war booty on earth, and #2, the 'delights' of Allah's [bordello] paradise, in the after life.



Well, i've got some bad news for you falah.......      ;D      ;D      ;D





+++


"Satan makes them promises, and creates in them false desires; but satan's promises are nothing but deception.
They (his dupes) will have their dwelling in Hell, and from it they will find no way of escape."
Koran 4.120

"Then, on the Day of Judgment,.....Then would they offer submission (with the pretence), "We did no evil (knowingly)." (The angels will reply), "Nay, but verily Allah knoweth all that ye did;"
Koran 16.27, 28

At this stage it is not clear who killed Rabbani

...Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mojahid said on Wednesday that the militant group has launched an investigation into the deadly attack but was not ready to take responsibility for it...

http://www.presstv.com/detail/200481.html

falah wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2011 at 11:39am:

At this stage it is not clear who killed Rabbani ...Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mojahid said on Wednesday that the militant group has launched an investigation into the deadly attack but was not ready to take responsibility for it... http://www.presstv.com/detail/200481.html

That is because the Jooos did it.

In 12 months time, it will be fact, throughout the moslem world.....

"Who killed Rabbani ???
Don't be naive!
We all know that the Jooos did it."

Yadda wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2011 at 11:32am:

There is not one moslem in the whole world, who is not 'a corrupt secularist'.

Secularism and Islam are an anathema to each other.

The Quran says:

"...and those who do not rule/judge by what God has revealed, those, they are the disbelievers!"

Arafat was not a Muslim.

falah wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2011 at 11:50am:

Yadda wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 11:32am: There is not one moslem in the whole world, who is not 'a corrupt secularist'. Secularism and Islam are an anathema to each other. The Quran says: "...and those who do not rule/judge by what God has revealed, those, they are the disbelievers!" Arafat was not a Muslim.

What gives moslems the right, to invade other countries ?

What gives moslems the right, to spread ISLAM by the sword ?

ISLAM itself, justifies moslem expansionism, and conquest, and moslem supremacism.

i.e.
A worldly conquest, and all of its attendant worldly 'rewards'.




falah,

As you well know, according to Allah, the whole world belongs to moslems;

"Or have they gods that can guard them from Us? They have no power to aid themselves, nor can they be defended from Us.
Nay, We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"
Koran 21:43-44


"And He made you heirs to their land and their dwellings and their property, and (to) a land which you have not yet trodden, and Allah has power over all things."
Koran 33:27



War booty [including free sex with captive women] on earth, and the promise of knob toys, and rivers of wine in Allah's paradise [in the after life]....
....ISLAM sounds very secularist to me.


Dictionary;
secular = = not religious, sacred, or spiritual.

Or is permanent penis erection and the endless deflowering of submissive, virgin, knob toys, along with rivers of wine, and young beautiful alluring boys [to deflower] [in Allah's paradise in the after life], all defined as 'spiritual and religious delights' in ISLAM ?


+++



"Satan makes them promises, and creates in them false desires; but satan's promises are nothing but deception.
They (his dupes) will have their dwelling in Hell, and from it they will find no way of escape."
Koran 4.120

"Then, on the Day of Judgment,.....Then would they offer submission (with the pretence), "We did no evil (knowingly)." (The angels will reply), "Nay, but verily Allah knoweth all that ye did;"
Koran 16.27, 28

Yadda wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2011 at 12:07pm:

What gives moslems the right, to invade other countries ?

You are hilarious Yadda.

Are the Israelis that are invading Palestine Muslim or Jewish?

Are the NATO forces that are invading Afghanistan Muslim or Christian?

The invaders of Iraq, Muslim or Christian?

Suggest you and Soren both get some professional help for your delusions.

falah wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2011 at 12:12pm:

Yadda wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 12:07pm: What gives moslems the right, to invade other countries ? You are hilarious Yadda.

Yes, we aim to please falah.

falah wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2011 at 12:12pm:

Yadda wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 12:07pm: What gives moslems the right, to invade other countries ? You are hilarious Yadda. Are the Israelis that are invading Palestine Muslim or Jewish? Are the NATO forces that are invading Afghanistan Muslim or Christian? The invaders of Iraq, Muslim or Christian? Suggest you and Soren both get some professional help for your delusions.

Muslims invaded and subjugated all poreviously non-Msulim lands from Spain to India.

Mebbe they should be asked to return to Araby.

Soren wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2011 at 1:06pm:

Muslims invaded and subjugated all poreviously non-Msulim lands from Spain to India.

Muslims were largely welcomed by civilians who had been oppressed and highly taxed under their former dictatorships.

Christians in the levant and North Africa, in particular, had reason to celebrate. Not only in the Islamic state did Christians pay less tax than they had under their Christian dictators, but they also became exempt from military conscription.


Soren wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2011 at 1:06pm:

Mebbe they should be asked to return to Araby.

Very clever Soren...except that 80% of Muslims are not Arabs.

World's largest Muslim country? Indonesia. Which Arab army subjugated Indonesia?

If any religion has been "spread by the sword", it has been Christianity -  as we can see in the history of Latin America and the  Philippines.

falah wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2011 at 1:25pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 1:06pm: Muslims invaded and subjugated all poreviously non-Msulim lands from Spain to India. Muslims were largely welcomed by civilians who had been oppressed and highly taxed under their former dictatorships. Soren wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 1:06pm: Mebbe they should be asked to return to Araby. Very clever Soren... except that 80% of Muslims are not Arabs.

falah,

Threatening....
1/
"Become a moslem, or,
2/
become a slave of moslems, or,
3/
we will kill you.",
.....isn't offering people a free choice.....to become moslems.



Moslems are taught by ISLAM that it is 'righteous' to fight and enslave or murder people who are non-moslems.

That is ISLAMIC doctrine, it is taught in the Koran.

Unbelief in itself, is a crime against Allah.




"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98
COMMENT; Promoting to moslems that 'unbelief' in Allah, is a crime.


"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29
COMMENT; The Koran is exhorting moslems to violence against non-moslems. i.e. FOR THEIR UNBELIEF.
Because, 'unbelief' in Allah, is a crime.


Moslems also will say this, outright....

KILLING OF NON-MUSLIMS IS LEGITIMATE
"...when we say innocent people, we mean moslems."
"....[not accepting ISLAM] is a crime against God."
"...If you are a non-moslem, then you are guilty of not believing in God."
"...as a moslem....i must have hatred towards everything which is non-ISLAM."
"...[moslems] allegiance is always with the moslems, so i will never condemn a moslem for what he does."
"...Britain has always been Dar al Harb [the Land of War]"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4








falah wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2011 at 1:25pm:

World's largest Muslim country? Indonesia. Which Arab army subjugated Indonesia?

If Indonesians freely chose [past tense], and freely choose, to embrace ISLAM, then on their heads be it!

Yadda, if what you claim was true about muslims forcing people to be Muslim, then tell me this:

After more than a thousand years of Muslim rule, why are there 10 million Christians in Muslim Arab Egypt.

Why is Arab Lebanon a Christian-majority country?

Why was nearly half the palestinian population still Christian right up to the time of the Jewish invasion in the 20th century?

Why, until the US invasion of Iraq was there about 1 million Christians in Iraq?

Why are there is there 100,000 Jews in Iran? Why is there a Jewish member of parliament in Iran?

falah wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2011 at 1:57pm:

Yadda, if what you claim was true about muslims forcing people to be Muslim, then tell me this: After more than a thousand years of Muslim rule, why are there 10 million Christians in Muslim Arab Egypt.

Some people have ethical boundaries they will not cross.

You can tell that the Christians population in Egypt have ethical boundaries they will not cross, because they are being persecuted and murdered by the moslem majority of that country.





falah wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2011 at 1:57pm:

Why is Arab Lebanon a Christian-majority country?

I thought that Lebanon was now called Hezbolla-stan ???






falah wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2011 at 1:57pm:

Why was nearly half the palestinian population still Christian right up to the time of the Jewish invasion in the 20th century?

How can the 'Palestinian' Christian population be genuinely pro-'Palestinian', when they are not permitted [by moslems] to openly practice their religion ?

Christians in Palestinian authority areas are not allowed to practice religion, except as how moslems allow them.

Moslem slaves are not allowed to criticise their masters.

If they do, the moslems have the 'sanction' from their 'religion' to murder them.

How can people existing under such circumstances freely express themselves ?

They cannot.ifalah wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2011 at 1:57pm:

Why, until the US invasion of Iraq was there about 1 million Christians in Iraq?

Saddam was a secularist, not an ISLAMIST.







falah wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2011 at 1:57pm:

Why are there is there 100,000 Jews in Iran? Why is there a Jewish member of parliament in Iran?

There is a small number of Jewish people living in Iran.

Probably many of them would love to leave Iran.

But even if there are 10,000 Jewish people living in Iran, are they really tolerated by the Iranian ISLAMIST regime, if those Jewish people living in Iran are not permitted to openly practice their religion ???

Google;
synagogues destroyed in iran




The single, Jewish member of parliament in Iran said....

"With regard to recent Holocaust denial comments by Iran's president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Motamed has expressed significant concerns, noting that "Denial of such a great historical tragedy that is connected to the Jewish community can only be considered an insult to all the world's Jewish communities." He also criticised Iranian television for broadcasting antisemitic programmes."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Motamed

Yadda wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2011 at 2:34pm:

falah wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 1:57pm: Why was nearly half the palestinian population still Christian right up to the time of the Jewish invasion in the 20th century? How can the 'Palestinian' Christian population be genuinely pro-'Palestinian', when they are not permitted [by moslems] to openly practice their religion ? falah wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 1:57pm: Why are there is there 100,000 Jews in Iran? Why is there a Jewish member of parliament in Iran? But even if there are 10,000 Jewish people living in Iran, are they really tolerated by the Iranian ISLAMIST regime, if those Jewish people living in Iran are not permitted to openly practice their religion ???

Google;
islam the pact of umar


"In the name of Allah, the Merciful and Compassionate. This is a letter to the servant of Allah Umar [ibn al-Khattab], Commander of the Faithful, from the Christians of such-and-such a city. When you came against us, we asked you for safe-conduct (aman) for ourselves, our descendants, our property, and the people of our community, and we undertook the following obligations toward you:

ARTICLES OF THE PACT OF UMAR
We Christians:
1 - We shall not build, in our cities or in their neighborhood, new monasteries,
2 - churches,
3 - convents,
4 - or monks' cells,
5 - nor shall we repair, by day or by night, such of them as fall in ruins
6 - or are situated in the quarters of the Muslims. . . .
7- We shall not give shelter in our churches or in our dwellings to any spy,
8 - nor hide him from the Muslims. We shall not teach the Quran to our children.
9 - We shall not manifest our religion publicly
10 - nor convert anyone to it.
11 - We shall not prevent any of our kin from entering Islam if they wish it.
12 - We shall show respect toward the Muslims, and
13 - we shall rise from our seats if they wish to sit.
14 - We shall not seek to resemble the Muslims by imitating any of their garments, the headgear, the turban, footwear, or the parting of the hair.
15 - We shall not speak as they do,
16 - nor shall we adopt their honorific names.
17 - We shall not mount on saddles,
18- nor shall we gird swords nor bear any kind of arms nor carry them on our persons.
19 - We shall not engrave Arabic inscriptions on our seals.
20 - We shall not sell fermented drinks. . . .
21 - We shall not display our crosses or our books in the roads or markets of the Muslims.
22 - We shall only use clappers in our churches very softly.
23 - We shall not raise our voices in our church services or in the presence of Muslims,
24 - nor shall we raise our voices when following our dead.
25 - We shall not show lights on any of the roads of the Muslims or in their markets.
26 - We shall not bury our dead near the Muslims.
27 - We shall not take slave who have been allotted to the Muslims.
28 - We shall not build houses over-topping the houses of the Muslims. . . .
(When I brought the letter to Umar, he added, "And we shall not strike a Muslim. We accept these conditions for ourselves and for the people of our community, and in return we receive safe-conduct.

If we in any way violate these undertakings for which we ourselves stand surety, we forfeit our covenant [dhimma], and we become liable to the penalties for contumacy and sedition."

falah wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2011 at 1:25pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 1:06pm: Muslims invaded and subjugated all poreviously non-Msulim lands from Spain to India. Muslims were largely welcomed by civilians who had been oppressed and highly taxed under their former dictatorships.

Really? Do you have any example of a Christian or Jewish or Hindu or any other town or municipality or kingdom asking the Muslims to come not only to fight for them like mercenaries BUT TO STAY AND MAKE ISLAM THE NEW RELIGION?

falah wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2011 at 1:25pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 1:06pm: Muslims invaded and subjugated all poreviously non-Msulim lands from Spain to India. Muslims were largely welcomed by civilians who had been oppressed and highly taxed under their former dictatorships.

Yes, my brother Falah, but the sword is good too. If the infidel will not convert with his will, other measures must be used. This is the will of Gud, so it is most necessary.

We must listen to Gud, friend, and obey His will. This way, we can achieve paradise, insh'allah, even if the infidel is too stubborn to submit.

Soren wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2011 at 10:52pm:

Really? Do you have any example of a Christian or Jewish or Hindu or any other town or municipality or kingdom asking the Muslims to come not only to fight for them like mercenaries BUT TO STAY AND MAKE ISLAM THE NEW RELIGION?

In truth, the Muslims guaranteed freedom of religion.


Here is the example of Christian Jerusalem surrendering to the Muslims after having requested the leader of the Muslims personally negotiate the treaty, so that they could ascertain if he was the man described in their prophesises as the one whom Jeruasalem could not defeat.


In 637, after a prolonged siege of Jerusalem, the Muslims took the city. Umar was given the key to the city by the Christian Patriarch, Sophronius, who surrendered the city on terms that no one be harmed. Heraclius, the Byzantine Emperor, had fled.


Umar entered Jerusalem in humility, walking in while not he, the Caliph, but his servant comfortably riding on a camel; they had been taking turns walking and riding.



The peace treaty he signed read as follows:



"This is a peace document which the , written by the servant of God, Umar - Commander of the Believers, to the people of Jerusalem. Peace is given to one and all in Jerusalem; peace of life and property, and peace to their church.

Their churches shall not be occupied, demolished nor taken away wholly or in part. None of their crosses nor property shall be seized. They shall not be coerced in their religion. (And as stipulated by the Christians) None of the Jews shall reside with them in Jerusalem.

The people of Jerusalem shall pay Jizia tax (head tax on free non-Muslims living under Muslim rule) as inhabitants of cities do. They shall evict all byzantines and thieves.

He whoever gets out shall be guaranteed safety for his life and property until he reach his safe haven. He whoever stays shall be (also) safe, in which case he shall pay as much tax as the people of Jerusalem do. Should any of the people of Jerusalem wish to move together with his property along with the Byzantines and to clear out of their churches and crosses, they shall be safe for their lives, churches and crosses, until they have reached then safe haven. He whoever chooses to stay he may do so and he shall pay as much tax as the people of Jerusalem do. He whoever wishes to move along with the Byzantine, may do so, and whoever wishes to return back home to his kinsfolk, may do so. Nothing shall be taken from them, their crops have been harvested. To the contents of this convent here are given the Covenant of God, the guarantees of His Prophet, the Caliphs and the Believers, provided they (the people of Jerusalem) pay their due Jizia tax.

Witnesses hereto are:

Khalid Ibn al-Waleed, Amr Ibn al-Ass, Abdul-Rahman Ibn'Auf, Mu'awiya Ibn abi-Sifian. Made and executed in the year 15 AH(637 CE)."



While the Patriarch was dressed in sumptuous robes, Umar, who was 'contemptuous of finery' wore his travel-stained battle tunic (Makiya 2001: 85). Makiya describes a conversation between Sophronious and Umar on the question of dress. Umar challenges Sophronious, saying that God does not 'demand extravagance' to which the Patriarch replies that he is 'his office.' He does not wear finery to adorn himself but to 'check the confusion and anarchy in the world'.

Later, Umar was invited to pray at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre but chose to pray some distance from the Church, saying that he was afraid that in the future Muslims could use this as an excuse to take over the church to build a mosque. The Christians gave the key of the church to Muslims to be responsible for its safety. This key is still with the Muslims today as a sign and symbol of the mutual trust.



An earlier treaty made between the commander of the Muslim army and the Christian city of Damascus:



"Khalid bin Walid has made concessions for the people of Damascus that they will be granted peace on the entry of the Islamic army into Damascus and their lives, properties and churches would remain safe and intact. Moreover, neither fortifications of the city nor the houses will be demolished nor any member of the Islamic force will be allowed to reside in any house. The Muslims and their Caliph will practice nothing but good to the people of Damascus while they keep paying the jiziyah (tax)."



This treaty was honoured by The Muslims.

Karnal wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2011 at 11:36pm:

falah wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 1:25pm: Soren wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 1:06pm: Muslims invaded and subjugated all poreviously non-Msulim lands from Spain to India. Muslims were largely welcomed by civilians who had been oppressed and highly taxed under their former dictatorships. Yes, my brother Falah, but the sword is good too. If the infidel will not convert with his will, other measures must be used. This is the will of Gud, so it is most necessary. We must listen to Gud, friend, and obey His will. This way, we can achieve paradise, insh'allah, even if the infidel is too stubborn to submit.

You are a liar Karnal.

People of the Bible (eg. Jews, Christians, Magians, etc.) who pay the jizya are not to be forced to convert to Islam. This is a very well established principle in Islam.

falah wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 12:11am:

The people of Jerusalem shall pay Jizia tax (head tax on free non-Muslims living under Muslim rule) ... This treaty was honoured by The Muslims.

I think we should introduce such a tax on non-Enlightenened people like Muslims.  As long as they pay we would honour the agreement that they should pay.  Ingenious.

Soren wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 12:23am:

falah wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 12:11am: The people of Jerusalem shall pay Jizia tax (head tax on free non-Muslims living under Muslim rule) ... This treaty was honoured by The Muslims. I think we should introduce such a tax on non-Enlightenened people like Muslims.  As long as they pay we would honour the agreement that they should pay.  Ingenious.

You are the unenlightened one Soren. You live in darkness. Did you finish primary school? Your view of the world is not very sophisticated.

Muslims already pay tax. There is income tax, gst, medicare levy,  taxes on buying houses, airport tax, road tax, etc.

All Australians are paying almost as much tax as a an unenlightened Byzantine

falah wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 12:33am:

Soren wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 12:23am: falah wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 12:11am: The people of Jerusalem shall pay Jizia tax (head tax on free non-Muslims living under Muslim rule) ... This treaty was honoured by The Muslims. I think we should introduce such a tax on non-Enlightenened people like Muslims.  As long as they pay we would honour the agreement that they should pay.  Ingenious. You are the unenlightened one Soren. You live in darkness. Did you finish primary school?

Very sophisticated indeed.  I can see where the islamic golden age went. Without it you couln't have even typed that. Impressive.  DO you do children's parties? People would pay money to see a Muslim making an attempt at humour.

I think you should pay Smart Mohammedan Tax on top of all the other tax everybody else pays. Think of it like a jizya, a 'being different' tax. Very Islamic.

falah wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 12:21am:

Karnal wrote on Sep 23rd, 2011 at 11:36pm: falah wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 1:25pm: Soren wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 1:06pm: Muslims invaded and subjugated all poreviously non-Msulim lands from Spain to India. Muslims were largely welcomed by civilians who had been oppressed and highly taxed under their former dictatorships. Yes, my brother Falah, but the sword is good too. If the infidel will not convert with his will, other measures must be used. This is the will of Gud, so it is most necessary. We must listen to Gud, friend, and obey His will. This way, we can achieve paradise, insh'allah, even if the infidel is too stubborn to submit. You are a liar Karnal. People of the Bible (eg. Jews, Christians, Magians, etc.) who pay the jizya are not to be forced to convert to Islam. This is a very well established principle in Islam.

My brother Falah, there are many established principles in Islam - be nice to wife and daughters, treat the stranger like a guest, give alms to the poor.

Some we do, and some we don't. Traditions is very strong, friend.

Not all who follow the Prophet, may peace be with him, know much about Islam. Some can't even read a Koran.

Many are forced to convert, my friend, whether this is the will of Gud or not. I am thinking specifically about parts of Indonesia, where Christian men - and women - are forced to undergo circumcision. Yes, people are imperfect. Muslims, Jews, Christians, all. The Bible has many stories about Jews doing the same to gentiles.

When it concerns Muslims, is it the fault of Islam, or is it the fault of people who cannot even read? Is it the fault of those who can read very well, but are led to read - and practice - false doctrines?

We must ensure our brothers are not misguided, friend, and learn to speak out when we can. Sometimes, this means correcting our Muslim brothers for following the wrong path, isn't it?

falah wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 12:21am:

Karnal wrote on Sep 23rd, 2011 at 11:36pm: falah wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 1:25pm: Soren wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 1:06pm: Muslims invaded and subjugated all poreviously non-Msulim lands from Spain to India. Muslims were largely welcomed by civilians who had been oppressed and highly taxed under their former dictatorships. Yes, my brother Falah, but the sword is good too. If the infidel will not convert with his will, other measures must be used. This is the will of Gud, so it is most necessary. We must listen to Gud, friend, and obey His will. This way, we can achieve paradise, insh'allah, even if the infidel is too stubborn to submit. You are a liar Karnal. People of the Bible (eg. Jews, Christians, Magians, etc.) who pay the jizya are not to be forced to convert to Islam. This is a very well established principle in Islam.

Muslim immigrants who refuse to accept the basic tenets of the enlightenment should also be treated as second class, forced to pay extra tax, stripped of most civic rights and be forbidden to publicly speak about their religion.

You should very readily perceive thejustice in that since that si precisely what muslims do to the 'people of the book'.

Quote:

People of the Bible (eg. Jews, Christians, Magians, etc.) who pay the jizya are not to be forced to convert to Islam.

Yeah, like where on earth is that still imposed?

Soren wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 8:38pm:

Muslim immigrants who refuse to accept the basic tenets of the enlightenment should also be treated as second class, forced to pay extra tax, stripped of most civic rights and be forbidden to publicly speak about their religion. You should very readily perceive thejustice in that since that si precisely what muslims do to the 'people of the book'.

My sister, there are many examples of good, wise Muslims who live in peaces. It is not the faults of the books. It is the faults of the peoples who read them.

You must read with love in your heart, dear, it is only way. Now, many Muslims are gripped by hatreds. This is a problem. Perhaps resentment has set in, perhaps greed, perhaps confusion.

We in the West are also confused, dear one. christians, Jews, Muslims, all. We are entering another dark age, sister, and it is sustained by many hatreds.

Love Gud, my sister, and love all His creation, even if they spite you. This is the noble path - a path without the morality of the slave.

It is most impolite to whinge, dear.

Karnal wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 11:52pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 8:38pm: Muslim immigrants who refuse to accept the basic tenets of the enlightenment should also be treated as second class, forced to pay extra tax, stripped of most civic rights and be forbidden to publicly speak about their religion. You should very readily perceive thejustice in that since that si precisely what muslims do to the 'people of the book'. My sister, there are many examples of good, wise Muslims who live in peaces.

Oh yeah?? Name one.

Kabesh, ignorant woman, do not ask such questions. You will bring much shame on your good husband.