why dont muslims tell us about her ?
they never answer it.

perhaps they think us infidels would not be impressed by a man in his 50's or so being given a "child bride."
perhaps they'ld think we'ld see it as paedophilia ??

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 21^st, 2011 at 10:56am:

why dont muslims tell us about her ? they never answer it. perhaps they think us infidels would not be impressed by a man in his 50's or so being given a "child bride." perhaps they'ld think we'ld see it as paedophilia ??

Then i will tell ya something about Aisha.

She was one, 'wise beyond her years', lil cookie.





It is recorded within ISLAMIC texts that even Aisha Mohammed's 9 year old child bride recognised how Allah's revelations always seemed to coincide with Mohammed's immediate, worldly, desires...

Narrated Aisha:

"I used to look down upon those ladies who had given themselves to Allah's Apostle and I used to say, "Can a lady give herself (to a man)?" But when Allah revealed: "You (O Muhammad) can postpone (the turn of) whom you will of them (your wives), and you may receive any of them whom you will; and there is no blame on you if you invite one whose turn you have set aside (temporarily).' (33.51) I said (to the Prophet), "I feel that your Lord hastens in fulfilling your wishes and desires."  "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #006.060.311


Even Aisha knew that Mohammed was a fraud.

....or alternatively, that it was Mohammed, who was Allah's god.
....seeing as Allah seemed to be Mohammed's most servile servant.

Yadda wrote on Sep 21^st, 2011 at 11:10am:

It is recorded within ISLAMIC texts that even Aisha Mohammed's 9 year old child bride.

Muslims are not allowed to become married, in the Western sense of the word, until after they reach puberty.

Aisha, herself, said that prophet Muhammed waited 3 years, until after she reached puberty, before living with her. If he was what you say, why would have waited those 3 years?

People used to have very short life-spans in Arabia.   They used to live between 40 to 60 years maximum.  So it was only normal and natural for girls to be married off at ages 9 or 10 or similar.

Women marrying after reaching puberty has been the norm for most of human history and Biblical figures married at around this age and the ancient Romans and greeks used to marry their women at about 12 years-old. The minimum marriage age in some US states is 13.

You should note that a large proportion of Jews and Christian women have historically been married at a similar age.

There are many documented cases of God Almighty allowing females aged 9 years-old to fall pregnant.



Yadda wrote on Sep 21^st, 2011 at 11:10am:

Narrated Aisha: "I used to look down upon those ladies who had given themselves to Allah's Apostle and I used to say, "Can a lady give herself (to a man)?" But when Allah revealed: "You (O Muhammad) can postpone (the turn of) whom you will of them (your wives), and you may receive any of them whom you will; and there is no blame on you if you invite one whose turn you have set aside (temporarily).' (33.51) I said (to the Prophet), "I feel that your Lord hastens in fulfilling your wishes and desires."  " hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #006.060.311

You take this out of context by not adding what she added to this as recorded in the next hadith in Bukhari. The prophet used to take turns with his wife, and Aisha was jealous of the other wives:

'Aisha said, "God's Prophet used to take the permission of that wife with whom he was supposed to stay overnight if he wanted to go to one other than her, after this Verse was revealed:--

"You  can postpone (the turn of) whom you will of them (your wives) and you may receive any (of them) whom you will; and there is no blame on you if you invite one whose turn you have set aside (temporarily). (33.51)

I asked Aisha, "What did you use to say (in this case)?" She said, "I used to say to him, "If I could deny you the permission (to go to your other wives) I would not allow your favor to be bestowed on any other person (except me)."



Yadda wrote on Sep 21^st, 2011 at 11:10am:

...or alternatively, that it was Mohammed, who was Allah's god. ....seeing as Allah seemed to be Mohammed's most servile servant.

Yadda, do you also suggest that Abraham is the god of God because God bestowed so many favours upon Abraham? You should think more carefully about your arguments before you blurt them out.

That's not what is written in the koran.

Why did her hair fall out ?

falah wrote on Sep 21^st, 2011 at 12:22pm:

Yadda wrote on Sep 21st, 2011 at 11:10am: It is recorded within ISLAMIC texts that even Aisha Mohammed's 9 year old child bride. Muslims are not allowed to become married, in the Western sense of the word, until after they reach puberty. Aisha, herself, said that prophet Muhammed waited 3 years, until after she reached puberty, before living with her. If he was what you say, why would have waited those 3 years?

falah,

It is recorded that Mohammed married Aisha when she was 6 years old.

It is recorded that their marriage was 'consummated' when Aisha was 9 years old.

Mohammed was over 50 years old.




falah,

It is you, and moslems, who claim that Allah chose Mohammed to be his prophet.

My God would not endorse [approve of] such carnality in a man, by making such a man his prophet.


Dictionary;
carnal = = relating to physical, especially sexual, needs and activities.




falah,

You worship a god, called Allah.

I worship another God, i worship the God of creation, the Holy One of Israel.

The God you call a 'Zionist'.



Google;
a different god allah

Google;
allah another god

Yadda wrote on Sep 21^st, 2011 at 1:08pm:

falah, It is recorded that Mohammed married Aisha when she was 6 years old. It is recorded that their marriage was 'consummated' when Aisha was 9 years old.

As I stated earlier, she herself, said that she had already reached puberty when the marriage was consumated.

As I said earlier it has been common throughout history for women to marry upon reaching puberty.

Believe it or not but many females reach puberty as early as nine, and this historically would have made them considered an adult.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/thaigal.jpg

It used to be quite common until fairly recently amongst Christians and Jews to marry females off as young as eight.

In 1180, the Christian King Louis VII married his daughter Agnes to the Christian Byzantine Emperor when she was 8 years-old!

Child brides, whether Byzantines or foreign princesses, were the norm rather than the exception, especially from the late twelfth century.

http://www.roman-emperors.org/aggiefran.htm





Yadda wrote on Sep 21^st, 2011 at 1:08pm:

Mohammed was over 50 years old.

Prophet Muhammed was quite physically fit at that stage. In the years following the marriage he fought in many battles, engaging in fierce hand-to-hand combat in the heat of the Arabian desert. Aishah, herself, described the prophet as having "the strength of 20 men."

It is no secret that women find power and fame attractive, and the prophet had women come up and propose themselves for marriage to him whilst he was in his fifties. He was also known as a righteous and honest man, and a prophet of God.

Yadda wrote on Sep 21^st, 2011 at 1:08pm:

My God would not endorse [approve of] such carnality in a man, by making such a man his prophet.

The pagan Arabs used to conduct worship their gods whilst naked - both men and women. It was common for the pagan Arab women to have sexual relations with many men, and only decide upon the father at the time of the birth of the children.

Prophet Muhammed prohibited these lewd types of behaviour. Hardly the act of someone following his carnal desires.

perhaps you could answer these questions:

1-     If the marriage was so wrong, then why didn’t Aisha’s mother object to the marriage? Instead she happily gave Aisha for marriage, and prepared her for the marriage

2-     Why did the women who were present with Aisha when she was about to be given to the prophet for marriage wished her luck and were happy for her. If the marriage was wrong, the women present would have been sad, and they would not have been happy for Aisha, rather what we see is that they were happy for Aisha and had no problems with this marriage whatsoever.

3-     Are we supposed to assume that Abu Bakr, and Aisha’s mother, and the women present with Aisha are all pedophiles and child molesters? Indeed such a conclusion with be very ignorant, and arrogant.

4-    Why didn’t any of the prophet’s enemies use this against the prophet Muhammad? If the marriage was so wrong, then you would expect to find his enemies to be the first ones to start using this against him, instead what we find is that his enemies NEVER EVEN ONCE brought this marriage up in a negative way against him.


5-    Why is there not a SINGLE hadith from Aisha showing her being displeased of the marriage? Why is there not one hadith from Aisha showing her to be like a victim, instead when you look at Aisha you find no symptoms of a victim. She became a great leader for Islam, a great scholar for Islam who would teach about Islam to many men. Does this seem to be the symptoms of someone who has been abused?

6-If Aisha was indeed a victim and so on, then why did she love the prophet Muhammad so much, and would sometimes get jelous around him because she loved him so much, does this sound like someone who is a victim?

Now while we are talking about the treatment of girls, let us see what the Jewish Bible says:

Exodus 21:7-11

7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. 8 If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. 9 But if the slave’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave but as a daughter.

Pedophilia in the Bible and Talmud (Sex with 3 year-old girls!)

Seeing as the topic of pedophilia has been brought up let look to the Bible to see what it says

Numbers 31:17-18

17 And now slay every male among the little ones, and slay every woman that hath known man by lying with him,

18 but all the female children that have not known lying with a man, keep alive for yourselves.




hmmmm sounds a bit sus, better get the rabbis to clear up this pedophile issue for us with a Talmudic explanation. For they are  "sages of blessed memory... whose words are the natural sounds of Judaism" [1]:

Remember the Talmud is a holy book for Jews, a book second only to the Bible in religious importance:




Said Rabbi Joseph, "Come and take note: A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse. And if a levir has had intercourse with her, he has acquired her. And one can be liable on her account because of the law prohibiting intercourse with a married woman....If she was married to a priest, she may eat food in the status of priestly rations. If one of those who are unfit for marriage with her had intercourse with her, he has rendered her unfit to marry into the priesthood.[M.Nid. 5:4].
Sanhedrin 7/55B [2]



R. Nahman bar Isaac said. "They made the decree that a gentile child should be deemed unclean with the flux uncleanness [described at Lev.15], so that an Israelite child should not hang around with him and commit pederasty [as he does]."

For said R. Zira, "I had much anguish with R. Assi, and R. Assi with R. Yohanan, and R. Yohanan with R. Yannai, and R. Yannai with R. Nathan b. Amram, and R. Nathan b. Amram with Rabbi [on this matter]: 'From what age is a gentile child deemed unclean with the flux uncleanness [described at Lev.15]'? And he said to me, 'On the day on which he is born.' But when I came to R. Hiyya, he said to me, 'From the age of nine years and one day.' And when I came and laid the matter before Rabbi, he said to me, 'Discard my reply and adopt that of R. Hiyya, who declared, "From what age is a gentile child deemed unclean with the flux uncleanness [described at Lev.15]? From the age of nine years and one day."'

[37A] Since he is then suitable for having sexual relations, he also is deemed unclean with the flux uncleanness [of Lev.15]."

Said Rabina, "Therefore a gentile girl who is three years and one day old, since she is then suitable to have sexual relations, also imparts uncleanness of the flux variety."
That is self-evident!
Abodah Zarah 36B-37A[3]



The basis for these rulings is the following Mishnaic passage of Tractate Niddah (filth):

A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse. "A girl three years old may be betrothed through an act of sexual intercourse," the words of R. Meir. And sages say, "Three years and one day old."
 
And if a levir has had intercourse with her, he has acquired her...

If she is younger than that age (three years-old), intercourse with her is like putting a finger in the eye.
(Mishnah Niddah 5:4) [4]



"Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that has known a man by sleeping with him.(Num 31:17).
[This] refers to her who has slept with a man as well as her who is suitable  Rabbi Shimon b. Yohai used to say: a converted girl who became a convert in the age of less than three years and one day, is rendered fit to marry into the priesthood." [5]



According to the Tannaïte Rabbis, Moses therefore had ordered the Israelites to kill all women older than three years and a day, because they were "suitable for having sexual relations." [6]



[1] J. Neusner, (trans) The Talmud of Babylonia, vol.XXI.A-D, Tractate Bava Mesia, Atlanta: Scholars Press 1990, p.ix-x.

[2] J. Neusner, (trans) The Talmud of Babylonia, vol.XXIII.B, Tractate Sanhedrin 1984, 150. See also vol.XIX.A, Tractate Qiddushin 10a-b, 1992, 33. "Menstruating" here of course refers to the ritual "flux uncleanness" described in Lev.15.

[3] J. Neusner, The Talmud of Babylonia. A complete outline, Part IV. The Division of Holy Things. B. Number 37. 1995, 704.

[4] J. Neusner, The Way of Torah. An Introduction to Judaism, Fifth Edition, Belmont: Wadsworth 1993, p.41.

[5 J Neusner, The Talmud: Introduction and reader, Atlanta: Scholars Press 1995, p.7.

[6] J. Neusner, The Talmud of Babylonia. A complete outline, Part IV. The Division of Holy Things. B. Number 37. 1995, 704.

[5] K G Kuhn, Der tannaitische Midrasch Sifre zu Numeri (German), Stuttgart: Kohlhammer, 1959, §157, 652f.

[6] K G Kuhn, Der tannaitische Midrasch Sifre zu Numeri (German), Stuttgart: Kohlhammer, 1959, §157, footnote 86, 653.
   


Summary: According to the Bible and Talmud, don't have sex with a 2 year-old girl because that would be sick - but anything older is fine.

Maybe a 9 year-old is considered "over the hill" by people who take the Bible and talmud seriously.

falah wrote on Sep 21^st, 2011 at 1:45pm:

perhaps you could answer these questions: 1-     If the marriage was so wrong, then why didn’t Aisha’s mother object to the marriage? Instead she happily gave Aisha for marriage, and prepared her for the marriage 2-     Why did the women who were present with Aisha when she was about to be given to the prophet for marriage wished her luck and were happy for her. If the marriage was wrong, the women present would have been sad, and they would not have been happy for Aisha, rather what we see is that they were happy for Aisha and had no problems with this marriage whatsoever. 3-     Are we supposed to assume that Abu Bakr, and Aisha’s mother, and the women present with Aisha are all pedophiles and child molesters? Indeed such a conclusion with be very ignorant, and arrogant.

Women never want their daughters to marry powerful men, for selfish reasons ???

Dictionary;
pander = =
· v. (pander to) gratify or indulge (an immoral or distasteful desire or habit).
· n.
1 dated a pimp or procurer.
2 archaic a person who panders to the desires of another.






falah wrote on Sep 21^st, 2011 at 1:45pm:

4-    Why didn’t any of the prophet’s enemies use this against the prophet Muhammad? If the marriage was so wrong, then you would expect to find his enemies to be the first ones to start using this against him, instead what we find is that his enemies NEVER EVEN ONCE brought this marriage up in a negative way against him.

Commonly, the critics of Mohammed were assassinated.

That is why.







falah wrote on Sep 21^st, 2011 at 1:45pm:

5-    Why is there not a SINGLE hadith from Aisha showing her being displeased of the marriage? Why is there not one hadith from Aisha showing her to be like a victim, instead when you look at Aisha you find no symptoms of a victim. She became a great leader for Islam, a great scholar for Islam who would teach about Islam to many men. Does this seem to be the symptoms of someone who has been abused?

Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234:

"Narrated Aisha:

The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age."


The Prophet Muhhamad asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."
Bukhari 7.62.18

The record does NOT show that Aisha gave her own informed consent, in her being joined with Mohammed.



I guess that Aisha signalled her consent, by her silence ???

Google;
mohammed silence is consent

As is revealed in the Hadith....

"Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "A matron should not be given in marriage except after consulting her; and a virgin should not be given in marriage except after her permission." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! How can we know her permission?" He said, "Her silence (indicates her permission)." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #007.062.067


"Narrated 'Aisha:
I said, "O Allah's Apostle! A virgin feels shy." He said, "Her consent is (expressed by) her silence."  "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #007.062.068








falah wrote on Sep 21^st, 2011 at 1:45pm:

6-If Aisha was indeed a victim and so on, then why did she love the prophet Muhammad so much, and would sometimes get jelous around him because she loved him so much, does this sound like someone who is a victim?

falah,

I don't know, you are telling us the story, trying to justify Mohammed's shenanigans.


+++


falah,

The fact is, it is clear from the record of ISLAMIC texts, that most of Mohammed's 'compatriots' and 'companions' were fearful sycophants, who would have licked Mohammed's ar$e to secure his 'favour'.

Dictionary;
sycophant = = a toady; a servile flatterer.

Example ???

Google;
"Ever since I saw the Prophet (peace be upon him) doing this, I have never failed to do that."


cited here....
"Christian Army Mutilates Civilians"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1314097200/28#28