Well with Gilliard on the nose consistently through every opinion poll in the country and with rumours of behind the scenes talk of a leadership challenge to Gilliard, do you think the independents might become flexible over the idea to replace Gilliard with someone else like Crean, smith or even Rudd ??


The independents have stated that their deal was with Gilliard, but given how she is polling so low and the independents dont like the liberals nor Abbott. would they become flexible over allowing a new labor leader to take on Abbott, SINCE THE MAJORITY DONT WANT TO LISTEN TO JULIAR, ???

stryder wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 10:42am:

Well with Gilliard on the nose consistently through every opinion poll in the country and with rumours of behind the scenes talk of a leadership challenge to Gilliard, do you think the independents might become flexible over the idea to replace Gilliard with someone else like Crean, smith or even Rudd ?? The independents have stated that their deal was with Gilliard, but given how she is polling so low and the independents dont like the liberals nor Abbott. would they become flexible over allowing a new labor leader to take on Abbott, SINCE THE MAJORITY DONT WANT TO LISTEN TO JULIAR, ???

No way. Windsor and Oakeshott wouldn't have the guts or integrity to change. They're stuck with Labor, regardless of anything, because they know that they're history come next election. Oakeshott is the biggest idiot in Canberra, even more so than any of the incompetent Labor members. He'll join them all in the scrap-heap come next election. His constituents are out for blood, and I can't wait for his concession speech. I somehow doubt that it will be 17 minutes this time.  ;D

Quote:

No way. Windsor and Oakeshott wouldn't have the guts or integrity to change. They're stuck with Labor, regardless of anything, because they know that they're history come next election. Oakeshott is the biggest idiot in Canberra, even more so than any of the incompetent Labor members. He'll join them all in the scrap-heap come next election. His constituents are out for blood, and I can't wait for his concession speech. I somehow doubt that it will be 17 minutes this time.

by Matty


Given how the decisions and actions of the independents to support Gilliard and labor has turned off australians soo bad, I predict that Windsor, Oakeshoft and Wilkie wont contest the next election, they know they will get a hiding from their electorates so I believe that all 3 of them willl gracefully retire close before the next federal election comes about in 2013

I'm not so sure as a new leader might free them from their two faced deal with the Left?

This could be the only reason that Labor hasn't dumped Juliar as yet? :(

I can't see them working with anyone else other Gillard - she bends over and they pump that's the way this relationship works

Rudd, Smith, Shorten or any other candidate is too smart to be caught out like this again

stryder wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 11:59am:

Quote: No way. Windsor and Oakeshott wouldn't have the guts or integrity to change. They're stuck with Labor, regardless of anything, because they know that they're history come next election. Oakeshott is the biggest idiot in Canberra, even more so than any of the incompetent Labor members. He'll join them all in the scrap-heap come next election. His constituents are out for blood, and I can't wait for his concession speech. I somehow doubt that it will be 17 minutes this time.   by Matty Given how the decisions and actions of the independents to support Gilliard and labor has turned off australians soo bad, I predict that Windsor, Oakeshoft and Wilkie wont contest the next election, they know they will get a hiding from their electorates so I believe that all 3 of them willl gracefully retire close before the next federal election comes about in 2013

Well, to be fair to Wilkie, stryder, he had no other choice. Labor received the highest vote in his electorate, and Liberal second. He came third, (which shows the dodginess of our system, but that's another matter) and went with the wishes of his constituents. They should bear that in mind, even if they have turned off Labor, he sided with them, which is more than what can be said about Windsor and Oakeshott.

stryder wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 11:59am:

Quote: No way. Windsor and Oakeshott wouldn't have the guts or integrity to change. They're stuck with Labor, regardless of anything, because they know that they're history come next election. Oakeshott is the biggest idiot in Canberra, even more so than any of the incompetent Labor members. He'll join them all in the scrap-heap come next election. His constituents are out for blood, and I can't wait for his concession speech. I somehow doubt that it will be 17 minutes this time.   by Matty Given how the decisions and actions of the independents to support Gilliard and labor has turned off australians soo bad, I predict that Windsor, Oakeshoft and Wilkie wont contest the next election, they know they will get a hiding from their electorates so I believe that all 3 of them willl gracefully retire close before the next federal election comes about in 2013

I think 1 will survive

Windsor probably survive the carnage

Maqqa wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 12:08pm:

stryder wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 11:59am: Quote: No way. Windsor and Oakeshott wouldn't have the guts or integrity to change. They're stuck with Labor, regardless of anything, because they know that they're history come next election. Oakeshott is the biggest idiot in Canberra, even more so than any of the incompetent Labor members. He'll join them all in the scrap-heap come next election. His constituents are out for blood, and I can't wait for his concession speech. I somehow doubt that it will be 17 minutes this time.   by Matty Given how the decisions and actions of the independents to support Gilliard and labor has turned off australians soo bad, I predict that Windsor, Oakeshoft and Wilkie wont contest the next election, they know they will get a hiding from their electorates so I believe that all 3 of them willl gracefully retire close before the next federal election comes about in 2013 I think 1 will survive Windsor probably survive the carnage

You think that Windsor will still retain his seat, Maqqa?  :-?

matty wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 12:15pm:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 12:08pm: stryder wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 11:59am: Quote: No way. Windsor and Oakeshott wouldn't have the guts or integrity to change. They're stuck with Labor, regardless of anything, because they know that they're history come next election. Oakeshott is the biggest idiot in Canberra, even more so than any of the incompetent Labor members. He'll join them all in the scrap-heap come next election. His constituents are out for blood, and I can't wait for his concession speech. I somehow doubt that it will be 17 minutes this time.   by Matty Given how the decisions and actions of the independents to support Gilliard and labor has turned off australians soo bad, I predict that Windsor, Oakeshoft and Wilkie wont contest the next election, they know they will get a hiding from their electorates so I believe that all 3 of them willl gracefully retire close before the next federal election comes about in 2013 I think 1 will survive Windsor probably survive the carnage You think that Windsor will still retain his seat, Maqqa?  :-?

ALRIGHT

my bad  ::)

Quote:

I think 1 will survive Windsor probably survive the carnage

by Maqqa


Well given the fact that Gilliards deal with the independents such as Tony Windsor has created such a sour feeling throughout the entire electorate of australia, it can be argued that it could effect Windsors seat of new england to the point of HIS OBLITERATION, quite frankly


So Im not sure that Windsor will survive or any of them given that they will be known in australian history of creating a divisve political atmosphere, by australian historians to come

Maqqa wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 12:16pm:

matty wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 12:15pm: Maqqa wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 12:08pm: stryder wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 11:59am: Quote: No way. Windsor and Oakeshott wouldn't have the guts or integrity to change. They're stuck with Labor, regardless of anything, because they know that they're history come next election. Oakeshott is the biggest idiot in Canberra, even more so than any of the incompetent Labor members. He'll join them all in the scrap-heap come next election. His constituents are out for blood, and I can't wait for his concession speech. I somehow doubt that it will be 17 minutes this time.   by Matty Given how the decisions and actions of the independents to support Gilliard and labor has turned off australians soo bad, I predict that Windsor, Oakeshoft and Wilkie wont contest the next election, they know they will get a hiding from their electorates so I believe that all 3 of them willl gracefully retire close before the next federal election comes about in 2013 I think 1 will survive Windsor probably survive the carnage You think that Windsor will still retain his seat, Maqqa?  :-? ALRIGHT my bad  ::)

No, it's cool, just wondering why you thought that?

matty wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 12:34pm:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 12:16pm: matty wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 12:15pm: Maqqa wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 12:08pm: stryder wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 11:59am: Quote: No way. Windsor and Oakeshott wouldn't have the guts or integrity to change. They're stuck with Labor, regardless of anything, because they know that they're history come next election. Oakeshott is the biggest idiot in Canberra, even more so than any of the incompetent Labor members. He'll join them all in the scrap-heap come next election. His constituents are out for blood, and I can't wait for his concession speech. I somehow doubt that it will be 17 minutes this time.   by Matty Given how the decisions and actions of the independents to support Gilliard and labor has turned off australians soo bad, I predict that Windsor, Oakeshoft and Wilkie wont contest the next election, they know they will get a hiding from their electorates so I believe that all 3 of them willl gracefully retire close before the next federal election comes about in 2013 I think 1 will survive Windsor probably survive the carnage You think that Windsor will still retain his seat, Maqqa?  :-? ALRIGHT my bad  ::) No, it's cool, just wondering why you thought that?

He seems to be more likeable than the others. Generally if you have that appeal it's difficult to dislodge

The independents are sitting in a gravy train where they have the labor/greens by the balls and can get to worry and scare labor all there want about pulling the plug on there support if there deal is nowhere met, but at the same time they know a labor party in front of the polls will help them long term But they are not getting that, so i ask the question could the independents jump ship on Gilliard and take there chance on a new labor leader as long as Gilliard remains a poisonous and unelectable figure ???

stryder wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 12:41pm:

The independents are sitting in a gravy train where they have the labor/greens by the balls and can get to worry and scare labor all there want about pulling the plug on there support if there deal is nowhere met, but at the same time they know a labor party in front of the polls will help them long term But they are not getting that, and I donmt think they will, so i ask the question could the independents jump ship on Gilliard and take there chance on a new labor leader as long as Gilliard remains a poisonous figure ???

Jumping ship may mean they have to change their policies

Gets down to 2 things

(1) Gillard is linked to bad policies so her policies must go as soon as she goes. How many of these policies are as a result of the deals between them?

(2) Given point 1 the Independents have to renegotiate new policy points with Labor


Chances are they want the same deal ie same policies therefore the Labor party is back on the Titanic with different deck chairs (same bad policies)

Quote:

Gets down to 2 things (1) Gillard is linked to bad policies so her policies must go as soon as she goes. How many of these policies are as a result of the deals between them? (2) Given point 1 the Independents have to renegotiate new policy points with Labor Chances are they want the same deal ie same policies therefore the Labor party is back on the Titanic with different deck chairs (same bad policies)

by Maqqa



If that scenario ever came true I believe thats exactly what will have to happen which is to renegotiate the whole deal

Why would the independents support Abbott when they know he'll just call an election as soon as he can? na, no way would they jump ship.

Quote:

Why would the independents support Abbott when they know he'll just call an election as soon as he can? na, no way would they jump ship.

by Skippy

I had said that the independents would jump ship for another labor leader, not abbott, I know the independents wont support Abbott and the liberals, but Im saying that Gilliard has been doing so badly in the opinion polls that she is clearly a poisonous and unelectable figure and do the independents care about seeing abbott being taken on by labor, because they cant do it with Gilliard, so could they look past gilliard to Crean, smith or even Rudd to turn around labors most extreme polling misfortunes

Maqqa wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 12:38pm:

matty wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 12:34pm: Maqqa wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 12:16pm: matty wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 12:15pm: Maqqa wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 12:08pm: stryder wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 11:59am: Quote: No way. Windsor and Oakeshott wouldn't have the guts or integrity to change. They're stuck with Labor, regardless of anything, because they know that they're history come next election. Oakeshott is the biggest idiot in Canberra, even more so than any of the incompetent Labor members. He'll join them all in the scrap-heap come next election. His constituents are out for blood, and I can't wait for his concession speech. I somehow doubt that it will be 17 minutes this time.   by Matty Given how the decisions and actions of the independents to support Gilliard and labor has turned off australians soo bad, I predict that Windsor, Oakeshoft and Wilkie wont contest the next election, they know they will get a hiding from their electorates so I believe that all 3 of them willl gracefully retire close before the next federal election comes about in 2013 I think 1 will survive Windsor probably survive the carnage You think that Windsor will still retain his seat, Maqqa?  :-? ALRIGHT my bad  ::) No, it's cool, just wondering why you thought that? He seems to be more likeable than the others. Generally if you have that appeal it's difficult to dislodge

I actually think that Wilkie is the most likeable. Yes, he went with Labor, but he had no other choice, really. Although I don't support his pokie reform BS. IMO, Windsor will be wiped out by whoever the Nationals candidate is.

stryder wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 2:01pm:

Quote: Why would the independents support Abbott when they know he'll just call an election as soon as he can? na, no way would they jump ship. by Skippy I had said that the independents would jump ship for another labor leader, not abbott, I know the independents wont support Abbott and the liberals, but Im saying that Gilliard has been doing so badly in the opinion polls that she is clearly a poisonous and unelectable figure and do the independents care about seeing abbott being taken on by labor, because they cant do it with Gilliard, so could they look past gilliard to Crean, smith or even Rudd to turn around labors most extreme polling misfortunes

Oh sorry stryder, i miss read your post.
well yes I think they are certainties to look past Gillard, But to who?
My spin on it is
Rudd -the preferred leader by the public by a mile, would poll better than Gillard and Abbott and if Labor are going to dump Gillard the person most likely to pull off a win .
Smith- My preferred option, but I doubt he can turn things around, they should have elected Smith as leader four years ago.
Crean, in my opinion is the best bet because he is a lot like Abbott in that he wont be bullied like Gillard is, he would attract the old fashioned Labor voters back to the fold,he is also at the end of his career so has nothing to lose, and could well pull off the upset of the century by playing Abbott at his own game.
All three would get a lift in the polls, and as I said I believe Crean could pull off an upset, but if I were a Labor member of parliament worried about losing my seat at the next election, I would swallow my pride and give the party its best chance of winning, I'd vote for Rudd.

skippy. wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 1:54pm:

Why would the independents support Abbott when they know he'll just call an election as soon as he can? na, no way would they jump ship.

if labor changes leader the independents have no say and no choice. they wont support abbott so labor can do what it wants.

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 3:11pm:

skippy. wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 1:54pm: Why would the independents support Abbott when they know he'll just call an election as soon as he can? na, no way would they jump ship. if labor changes leader the independents have no say and no choice. they wont support abbott so labor can do what it wants.

Nice of you to agree with me longwhine. ;D ;D ;D

skippy. wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 3:17pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 3:11pm: skippy. wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 1:54pm: Why would the independents support Abbott when they know he'll just call an election as soon as he can? na, no way would they jump ship. if labor changes leader the independents have no say and no choice. they wont support abbott so labor can do what it wants. Nice of you to agree with me longwhine. ;D ;D ;D

you dontb need to be a genius to know the indies wont support abbott. the inference therfore is that labor can change leaders if they want since the indies have no where to go - and never did.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/article/10334653/vaile-backs-stoner-for-federal-tilt/

Former deputy prime minister Mark Vaile says he would come out of political retirement to help New South Wales Deputy Premier Andrew Stoner take a tilt at federal politics.

There are reports that Mr Stoner has been approached by senior Nationals figures to take on Independent Rob Oakeshott in the seat of Lyne at the next election.

"I suspect it's pure speculation at this stage but all I've said is that if ultimately in a couple of years time when the next federal election comes round, and if Andrew Stoner, who is currently the deputy premier in NSW, decides that he wants to have a tilt at Canberra I'm more than happy to give him a hand," Mr Vaile said.

Mr Vaile held the seat of Lyne for 15 years until his retirement from politics in 2008, which triggered a by-election won by Mr Oakeshott.

He says if Mr Stoner does want to contest the next federal election, his chances would be very strong.

"He's very well regarded in the local area and the local community is very disappointed in Rob Oakeshott... particularly that he helped create a Labor government at the end of last year but not only that, he helped create arguably the worst Labor government this country's ever had," Mr Vaile said.

Oakeshott is an idiot and an opportunist. In one of the middle pages of a newspaper in his electorate he was trashing the state member for not delivering anything yet on the front page was a big story about how she got funding for a new school to be built in the Port Macquarie area. Seems she's doing quite well while Oakeshott submitted about 100 project proposals for his electorate and not one of them received any fundiing. I think Oakeshott should worry about himself more and less about others - especially when they are doing a far better job of representing their constituents than he is.

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 24^th, 2011 at 3:11pm:

skippy. wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 1:54pm: Why would the independents support Abbott when they know he'll just call an election as soon as he can? na, no way would they jump ship. if labor changes leader the independents have no say and no choice. they wont support abbott so labor can do what it wants.

If it hadn't been for the unfair sustained Abbott/ Lib /Media campaign against the independants they probably would have gone with the Liberals had Labor changed Leadership.

In the current situation I do not know what they would be likely to do.

Historically in Australia the precedent was a change of government when the conservatives stabbed Menzies in the back while he was overseas and replaced him with the country party leader the independents change to Labor. Though I doubt that Labor opposition had run a sustained unjustifiable personal attack against the independants of that time.

Maqqa wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 8:50am:

particularly that he helped create a Labor government at the end of last year but not only that, he helped create arguably the worst Labor government this country's ever had," Mr Vaile said.

You have to wonder about his objectivity considering he was a member of arguably the worst government the country ever had.

Dnarever wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 11:25am:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 25th, 2011 at 8:50am: particularly that he helped create a Labor government at the end of last year but not only that, he helped create arguably the worst Labor government this country's ever had," Mr Vaile said. You have to wonder about his objectivity considering he was a member of arguably the worst government the country ever had.

:D :D :D

that's a good one dna

arguably

:D :D

Maqqa wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 11:27am:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 25th, 2011 at 11:25am: Maqqa wrote on Sep 25th, 2011 at 8:50am: particularly that he helped create a Labor government at the end of last year but not only that, he helped create arguably the worst Labor government this country's ever had," Mr Vaile said. You have to wonder about his objectivity considering he was a member of arguably the worst government the country ever had. that's a good one dna arguably

How many other high taxing Australian governments have illegally sent us into a war where over 100,000 were killed only to later find that they made a mistake about the reasons?

In this situation how many other Australian governments were responsible for funding their enemy to the tune of $350 Million (AWB) - well besides Menzies (pig iron Bob) that is.

The answer is none - They arguable have super credentials for the position.

Looks like the Liberals have shot themselves in the foot on this one dosen't it. They would have had a good shot at forming government in this unlikely scenario had they acted reasonably.

If the independants swap sides the argument of a new election is very remote, in the original discussions Abbott had agreed to run the full term and I am sure this would still be part of any deal.

Dnarever wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 11:37am:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 25th, 2011 at 11:27am: Dnarever wrote on Sep 25th, 2011 at 11:25am: Maqqa wrote on Sep 25th, 2011 at 8:50am: particularly that he helped create a Labor government at the end of last year but not only that, he helped create arguably the worst Labor government this country's ever had," Mr Vaile said. You have to wonder about his objectivity considering he was a member of arguably the worst government the country ever had. that's a good one dna arguably How many other high taxing Australian governments have illegally sent us into a war where over 100,000 were killed only to later find that they made a mistake about the reasons? In this situation how many other Australian governments were responsible for funding their enemy to the tune of $350 Million (AWB) - well besides Menzies (pig iron Bob) that is. The answer is none - They arguable have super credentials for the position.

what do you mean by "high taxing"?

Is the "high taxing" due to a higher rate or higher GDP?

Dnarever wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 11:41am:

Looks like the Liberals have shot themselves in the foot on this one dosen't it. They would have had a good shot at forming government in this unlikely scenario had they acted reasonably. If the independants swap sides the argument of a new election is very remote, in the original discussions Abbott had agreed to run the full term and I am sure this would still be part of any deal.

ARGUABLY they have

ARGUABLY they are shaking in their boots because Gillard has 26% primary support as well  ;D ;D

Maqqa wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 11:27am:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 25th, 2011 at 11:25am: Maqqa wrote on Sep 25th, 2011 at 8:50am: particularly that he helped create a Labor government at the end of last year but not only that, he helped create arguably the worst Labor government this country's ever had," Mr Vaile said. You have to wonder about his objectivity considering he was a member of arguably the worst government the country ever had. that's a good one dna arguably

You understand that you rubbishing the term arguably is only serving to undermine the opinion that you originally posted by Mr Vale. (Who ever he is).

Maqqa wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 11:44am:

ARGUABLY they are shaking in their boots because Gillard has 26% primary support as well

I suspect that she would need at least 29% for that.

The dopey Independents will accept whoeever is head of the ALP because the alternative as a Coalition leader who may not have to deal directly with them and in that instance, they will have no influence and will become irrelevant and they can't have that happen!

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 25^th, 2011 at 11:58am:

The dopey Independents will accept whoeever is head of the ALP because the alternative as a Coalition leader who may not have to deal directly with them and in that instance, they will have no influence and will become irrelevant and they can't have that happen!

You do realise that Abbott was offering more for the independents to go with him originally and that they would only renegotiate and possibly change side with agreement on a good deal for them.

You also neglect to consider that even as opposition leader he was until recently dealing directly with them on an ongoing basis.