Quote:

THE UK's Foreign Secretary and the Archbishop of Canterbury intervened today to try to save a Christian pastor in Iran who has refused to renounce his faith to escape a death sentence. An Iranian court gave Youcef Nadarkhani, 34, a third and final chance to avoid hanging, but he replied, "I am resolute in my faith and Christianity and have no wish to recant." The panel of five judges will decide within a week whether to confirm his execution for apostasy, Mohammed Ali Dadkhah, his lawyer, told The (London) Times. William Hague said he "deplored" Pastor Nadarkhani's plight, and a senior Foreign and Commonwealth Office diplomat telephoned the Iranian charge d'affaires in London to protest. "This demonstrates the Iranian regime's continued unwillingness to abide by its constitutional and international obligations to respect religious freedom," Mr Hague said. "I pay tribute to the courage shown by Pastor Nadarkhani, who has no case to answer, and call on the Iranian authorities to overturn his sentence." Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar. End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar. The Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, broke his silence to express "deep concern" at the sentence faced by Nadarkhani, and at the persecution of religious minorities in Iran generally. A member of the Protestant evangelical Church of Iran and the father of two young boys, Nadarkhani held services in underground "home churches" in Rasht, a provincial town about 240km north-west of Tehran. In 2009, he challenged the regime's insistence that all schools should teach Islam. He was arrested in October that year and has been imprisoned in Rasht ever since. He was sentenced to death for apostasy by a court in Rasht last year. Sources said Christian clerics and advisers had been working hard behind the scenes to save the pastor's life, but had sought to avoid "megaphone diplomacy" in case it did more harm than good. The US Department of State has also condemned the Iranian judiciary for demanding that Nadarkhani renounce his faith or face execution. "While Iran's leaders hypocritically claim to promote tolerance, they continue to detain, imprison, harass and abuse those who simply wish to worship the faith of their choosing," it said.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/christian-pastor-in-iran-faces-execution-for-apostasy/story-fn3dxity-1226151114178

bump - hi abu and les

Let us see what the Bible says to do with apostates:



Let us look at Deuteronomy 13:6-9:

"If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods, do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people."



How about Deuteronomy 17:3-5:

"And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, .....and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die."



Those who engage in fortune telling should be executed:

"And as for a man or woman in whom there proves to be a mediumistic spirit or spirit of prediction, they should be put to death without fail.  They should pelt them to death with stones.  Their own blood is upon them." (Leviticus 20:27)



2 Chronicles 15:13:

"All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether young(children) or old, man or woman."




Maybe Jesus takes a softer approach?


"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the way of the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.  I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished.  (Matthew 5:17-18)




Matthew 15:1-9

1 Then some Pharisees and rabbis came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked,
2 "Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!"
3 Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?
4 For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'
5 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,'
6 he is not to 'honor his father' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition.
7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8 " 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'"



Let us look at the founder of the trinitarian church, Paul, what does he have to say in the Bible:

He says every disbeliever deserves death!

Romans 1:20-32

"20.   For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21.  For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22.  Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
23.  and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24.  Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
25.  They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.
26.  Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
27.  In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another.  Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28.  Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.
29.  They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,
30.  slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;
31.  they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
32.  Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death...

the OT is for jews.
the nt is for christians.

jesus was a jew, so he was bound by that.
the gospels of the bible are from that viwepoint and many of the quote Jesus uses are to prove the pharisees morally corrupt.

christianity requires a bit of mental intelligence to understand.
It requires only an open heart to receive.

falah wrote on Sep 29^th, 2011 at 10:57am:

Let us see what the Bible says to do with apostates: Let us look at Deuteronomy 13:6-9: "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods, do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people." How about Deuteronomy 17:3-5: "And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, .....and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die." Those who engage in fortune telling should be executed: "And as for a man or woman in whom there proves to be a mediumistic spirit or spirit of prediction, they should be put to death without fail.  They should pelt them to death with stones.  Their own blood is upon them." (Leviticus 20:27) 2 Chronicles 15:13: "All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether young(children) or old, man or woman." Maybe Jesus takes a softer approach? "Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the way of the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.  I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished.  (Matthew 5:17-18) Matthew 15:1-9 1 Then some Pharisees and rabbis came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 "Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!" 3 Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.' 5 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,' 6 he is not to 'honor his father' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: 8 " 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'" Let us look at the founder of the trinitarian church, Paul, what does he have to say in the Bible: He says every disbeliever deserves death! Romans 1:20-32 "20.   For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. 21.  For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22.  Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23.  and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. 24.  Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25.  They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen. 26.  Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27.  In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another.  Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. 28.  Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29.  They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30.  slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31.  they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32.  Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death...

I thought the whole point of Mohammed's prophethood was that the jews and the christians had hopelessly corrupted the sacred texts. But now Mohammedans like you are happy to quote those same texts as authoritatively supporting your religious terror.

This is typical of the semi-literate priapic: whatever supports his whims is the word of god, whatever doesn't is jewsih corruption.
You probably think that the greatest corruption is that neither jews nor christians kill apostates.

Soren wrote on Sep 29^th, 2011 at 4:03pm:

I thought the whole point of Mohammed's prophethood was that the jews and the christians had hopelessly corrupted the sacred texts. But now Mohammedans like you are happy to quote those same texts as authoritatively supporting your religious terror. This is typical of the semi-literate priapic: whatever supports his whims is the word of god, whatever doesn't is jewsih corruption. You probably think that the greatest corruption is that neither jews nor christians kill apostates.

I never said that the Bible was the word of God.

I posted the verses of the Bible to point out your own hypocrisy.

Do you believe in your own holy book or not?

If you believed that Bible is God's word, then should'nt you obey Him. But alas you hypocrites do not believe.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 29^th, 2011 at 1:35pm:

the OT is for jews. the nt is for christians. jesus was a jew, so he was bound by that. the gospels of the bible are from that viwepoint and many of the quote Jesus uses are to prove the pharisees morally corrupt. christianity requires a bit of mental intelligence to understand. It requires only an open heart to receive.

You do not follow your own prophet? Jesus' words are not worth much to you are they?

"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the way of the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished.  (Matthew 5:17-18)

In spite of what the bible says, when was the last time Jews or Christians executed anyone for apostasy? You see, most people who profess some sort of faith do not take the bible literally or see it as an infallible guide to all lifes dilemmas.

But muslims on the other hand are still stuck in that dark age rut. ::)

So Christians and jews do not really believe in their book, and do not want to obey God? Don't really sound like true believers do they?

falah wrote on Sep 29^th, 2011 at 5:43pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 29th, 2011 at 4:03pm: I thought the whole point of Mohammed's prophethood was that the jews and the christians had hopelessly corrupted the sacred texts. But now Mohammedans like you are happy to quote those same texts as authoritatively supporting your religious terror. This is typical of the semi-literate priapic: whatever supports his whims is the word of god, whatever doesn't is jewsih corruption. You probably think that the greatest corruption is that neither jews nor christians kill apostates. I never said that the Bible was the word of God. I posted the verses of the Bible to point out your own hypocrisy. Do you believe in your own holy book or not? If you believed that Bible is God's word, then should'nt you obey Him. But alas you hypocrites do not believe.

Ah, the "word of god".
You have to be  a semiliterate Arab merchant (or his follower) to believe that God dictates books like an emperor, word for word. This stupid misunderstanding of a meshuggeh is the foundation misunderstanding of islam. It makes islam a parody of a revealed religion.

Islam suffers - and makes the rest of the world suffer - by  Mohammed's misunderstandings, all due to his apeing of what he didn't, couldn't understand. They all come from the absurd literalism of a semilitrate. His mad reverence for literalness is the awe of the unlettered.  

falah wrote on Sep 29^th, 2011 at 9:43pm:

So Christians and jews do not really believe in their book, and do not want to obey God? Don't really sound like true believers do they?

"We then, as workers together with him,... (etc)"

The (human) world, in the judeo-Christian understanding, is the co-creation of man and god. Theologically, philosophically, ethically, artistically, in every conceivable way, this is a more fruitful and felicitous way of understanding the relationhip between man and god (if the existence of god is to be entertained in any way) that the Mohammedan understanding of master and slave, supreme whimsical overlord and abject puppet.

You puppets nevertheless have the laughable self-conceit to discern that god wants you to kill everyone who doesn't submit (I-slam) to your stupidity which you can only ever spread by terror and maintain by the terror of your apostaty laws.

Furthermore, you have petrified time so for you 632 AD is as if yesterday, as far as doctrinal dictates of life are concerned.  If the final 'word of God' was uttered in 632, then the whole awy of life, of seeing, of being in 632 IS the way to see and live, then, now and for all times.
You are all barking mad, whchich may be endearing if you kept thi nonsene as a private confession. But you are dangerous mandmen because you want to impose it on others.  

falah wrote on Sep 29^th, 2011 at 5:45pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 29th, 2011 at 1:35pm: the OT is for jews. the nt is for christians. jesus was a jew, so he was bound by that. the gospels of the bible are from that viwepoint and many of the quote Jesus uses are to prove the pharisees morally corrupt. christianity requires a bit of mental intelligence to understand. It requires only an open heart to receive. You do not follow your own prophet? Jesus' words are not worth much to you are they? "Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the way of the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished.  (Matthew 5:17-18)

you are right at the lightbulb moment falah. Consider it for a while.

jesus was a jew, so he was bound by the OT laws.
He did not come to "abolish" the OT laws, the OT laws were "correct".
It is man who could not live by the laws.
So the laws showed man where he was wrong, at the same time the laws isolated man from God.
So how is God to draw men back to himself ?
Under the OT laws, a penalty is to be paid for breaches of the law.
Jesus is the payment of that breach. He is the payment of every breach.
Every christian admits they have erred - that's a human condition.

That's the "open heart" part of becoming a christian



I've just been given this for you falah.


"For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."  "
Mark 10:45

Soren wrote on Sep 29^th, 2011 at 10:03pm:

falah wrote on Sep 29th, 2011 at 9:43pm: So Christians and jews do not really believe in their book, and do not want to obey God? Don't really sound like true believers do they? "We then, as workers together with him,... (etc)" The (human) world, in the judeo-Christian understanding, is the co-creation of man and god. Theologically, philosophically, ethically, artistically, in every conceivable way, this is a more fruitful and felicitous way of understanding the relationhip between man and god (if the existence of god is to be entertained in any way) that the Mohammedan understanding of master and slave, supreme whimsical overlord and abject puppet. You puppets nevertheless have the laughable self-conceit to discern that god wants you to kill everyone who doesn't submit (I-slam) to your stupidity which you can only ever spread by terror and maintain by the terror of your apostaty laws. Furthermore, you have petrified time so for you 632 AD is as if yesterday, as far as doctrinal dictates of life are concerned.  If the final 'word of God' was uttered in 632, then the whole awy of life, of seeing, of being in 632 IS the way to see and live, then, now and for all times. You are all barking mad, whchich may be endearing if you kept thi nonsene as a private confession. But you are dangerous mandmen because you want to impose it on others.

Fair comment Soren.



I cannot in good conscience view ISLAM as an 'Abrahamic faith'.

I view ISLAM as a travesty, and as a totally false and fabricated monotheistic 'faith'.

IMO, moslems, in embracing ISLAM are being lead by their basest human [carnal] emotions: ....human envy, selfish human greed, human lust.

All men are self deceivers, no more so, moslems.

Led [to their own doom] by their carnal, worldly desires.

Yadda wrote on Sep 30^th, 2011 at 8:11am:

I cannot in good conscience view ISLAM as an 'Abrahamic faith'.

Abraham was neither Christian nor Jew. he was indeed an Orthodox Muslim (surrendered to the will of God).

When Abraham submitted to God's will, and was prepared to sacrifice his own son in submission to God's will he was indeed a submitter (Muslim).

Islam means (submission to the will of God Almighty.

There was no such thing as Christian or jew in the time of Abraham - those religions were only invented much later.

Yet any man in any time can submit to the will of God and be Muslim.

Quote:

........There was no such thing as Christian or jew in the time of Abraham - those religions were only invented much later. .........

when was islam invented ?

falah wrote on Sep 30^th, 2011 at 12:43pm:

Yadda wrote on Sep 30th, 2011 at 8:11am: I cannot in good conscience view ISLAM as an 'Abrahamic faith'. Abraham was neither Christian nor Jew. he was indeed an Orthodox Muslim (surrendered to the will of God). When Abraham submitted to God's will, and was prepared to sacrifice his own son in submission to God's will he was indeed a submitter (Muslim). Islam means (submission to the will of God Almighty. There was no such thing as Christian or jew in the time of Abraham - those religions were only invented much later. Yet any man in any time can submit to the will of God and be Muslim.

"....Abraham.....was indeed a submitter (Muslim)."

Vain, vain, LIAR.

It is not God who kills me [while in this life], if i do not submit to the will of God.

It is a moslem who kills me [while in this life], if i do not submit to the will of moslems.





Dictionary;
vanity = =
1 excessive pride in or admiration of one’s own appearance or achievements.
2 the quality of being worthless or futile.



Moslems, vain self-idolaters [who make themselves God, in their own hearts]....

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

falah wrote on Sep 30^th, 2011 at 12:43pm:

Yet any man in any time can submit to the will of God and be Muslim.

http://www.chockfullonuts.com/imgs/bigCan.png

falah wrote on Sep 30^th, 2011 at 12:43pm:

Yet any man in any time can submit to the will of God and be Muslim.

Thank you for writing this, my brother. Many of us here are Muslims - some, insh'allah, do not know it yet.

Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was a true Orthodox Submitter (Islamic Monotheist - worshipping none but God alone) and he was not of idolaters

The Quran,  3:67




Say: "Verily, my Lord hath directed me to the straight way, a true religion, the way of Abraham the Orthodox; and he was no idolater."

Say: "Verily, my prayers, and my worship, and my life, and my death are dedicated unto God, the Lord of all Creation.

The Quran, 6:161-162

falah - it is a basic fallacy to use the koran to prove the koran correct

ie, it is a circular argument to use a quote from a book to prove the same book is true.
eg - the koran is right because the koran says it it right

Obviously you don not get it. The Quran reasons with mankind; think about it, was Abraham a Christian or a Jew?

You can check the book of Genesis in the Bible for yourself and see that it does not say that Abraham was a Christian or a Jew - those religions did not exist until centuries later.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 30^th, 2011 at 11:49pm:

falah - it is a basic fallacy to use the koran to prove the koran correct ie, it is a circular argument to use a quote from a book to prove the same book is true. eg - the koran is right because the koran says it it right

falah wrote on Oct 1^st, 2011 at 3:04am:

Obviously you don not get it. The Quran reasons with mankind.

There's the paradox of the Mohammedan closed mindedness: a paradox is convincing, while reason is anathema.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 30^th, 2011 at 11:49pm:

falah - it is a basic fallacy to use the koran to prove the koran correct ie, it is a circular argument to use a quote from a book to prove the same book is true. eg - the koran is right because the koran says it it right

A tactic used also by fundamentalist Christians, all cults, "Hollywood Healers", Life Coaches and financial spruikers.

http://cdn.nearlyfreespeech.net/jandmstatic/strips/2008-04-11.jpg

falah wrote on Sep 30^th, 2011 at 6:35pm:

Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was a true Orthodox Submitter (Islamic Monotheist - worshipping none but God alone) and he was not of idolaters The Quran,  3:67 Say: "Verily, my Lord hath directed me to the straight way, a true religion, the way of Abraham the Orthodox; and he was no idolater." Say: "Verily, my prayers, and my worship, and my life, and my death are dedicated unto God, the Lord of all Creation. The Quran, 6:161-162

John 7:19
Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

Moslems refuse to keep God's law [the law revealed to Moses].

Not even, the ten commandments.




John 8:38
I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39  They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40  But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

Abraham was not a murderer.

Moslems, through their scripture, promote murder, and not for any crime.

But moslems will murder a person when that person resists the will of moslems.

Ergo, Abraham could NOT have been a moslem.

Abraham was not an oppressor, of his fellow man.

It is nowhere recorded that Abraham murdered those who resisted his will.





Consider the story in the Bible of the destruction of Sodom.

Abraham reasoned with God, seeking to know if God would NOT destroy Sodom, if there were 10 innocent people living there.

Abraham was advocating, with God!, for the [possible] innocents in Sodom.

"Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?"

There is no mention that these [possible] innocent people, were, or were not, believers in Abraham's God [i.e. 'moslems'].

Genesis 18:16-33



But moslems take it upon themselves, to murder those, who resist THEIR WILL.

NO RIGHTEOUS MAN WOULD DO THIS MURDER.

And God will judge them.





This law, moslem law, has no counterpart, in either Judaism, or Christianity....

"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98
[i.e. 'Unbelief' is a crime.]

"...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:.."
Koran 4.74-76
[i.e. Fighting against 'unbelievers' is sanctified, fighting against 'unbelievers' is 'good works'. Because 'unbelievers' [of Allah] are in league with SATAN. So those who are indeed, good moslems will fight against the 'unbelievers'.]

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111



+++

The only sanction in Judaism [in Jewish laws], to kill 'unbelievers', was a sanction to kill those Hebrews [only] who wilfully became covenant breakers.

But there was never a sanction to kill non-Hebrews, because they were non-Hebrews.

The only non-Hebrews, that were killed by the Hebrews were those who GOD deemed to be criminals, because of their own wicked conduct, in God's holy land.



Leviticus 18:24
Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:


Leviticus 20:22
Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out.
23  And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.

Yadda wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2011 at 3:38am:

falah wrote on Sep 30th, 2011 at 6:35pm: Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was a true Orthodox Submitter (Islamic Monotheist - worshipping none but God alone) and he was not of idolaters The Quran,  3:67 Say: "Verily, my Lord hath directed me to the straight way, a true religion, the way of Abraham the Orthodox; and he was no idolater." Say: "Verily, my prayers, and my worship, and my life, and my death are dedicated unto God, the Lord of all Creation. The Quran, 6:161-162 Consider the story in the Bible of the destruction of Sodom. Abraham reasoned with God, seeking to know if God would NOT destroy Sodom, if there were 10 innocent people living there. Abraham was advocating, with God!, for the [possible] innocents in Sodom. "Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?" There is no mention that these [possible] innocent people, were, or were not, believers in Abraham's God [i.e. 'moslems']. Genesis 18:16-33

Abraham didn't say,
"Yes you should kill the people of Sodom, because they are not moslems [OR, you should kill the people of Sodom, because they don't worship you, God]."

Abraham said, TO GOD,
"Hey, is it OK to kill the people of Sodom, because there many be innocent people there too ?"


Genesis 18:23
And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
24  Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
25  That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?



Abraham was a brave soul, who knew the difference between righteousness, and wickedness, and who knew the difference between good, and evil.

Abraham was a righteous soul, and even brave enough to demonstrate to his God, that he, Abraham, was a righteous soul.



Abraham was not a fawning, servile flatterer.

Abraham was not a moslem.



+++

Compare Abraham's conduct, with the conduct of moslems [from an ISLAMIC source]....

....."Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) faced the Black Stone, touched it, and then placed his lips on it and wept for a long time."
.....Ibn 'Abbas that 'Umar bent down towards the Black Stone and said: "By Allah! I know that you are a mere stone, and if I had not seen my beloved Prophet (peace be upon him) kissing you and touching you I would have never done so." The Qur'an says: "You have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct)."'
....'Ever since I saw the Prophet (peace be upon him) doing this, I have never failed to do that.'
law/fiqhussunnah/fus5_76.html#5.74b


Ibn 'Abbas that 'Umar.....
'Ever since I saw the Prophet (peace be upon him) doing this, I have never failed to do that.'

What all moslems are....

Dictionary;
sycophant = = a toady; a servile flatterer.






Moslems take it upon themselves, to murder those, who resist THEIR WILL.

NO RIGHTEOUS MAN WOULD DO THIS MURDER.

And God will judge them.





And Abraham was a brave and righteous man, and no moslem.

Yadda wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2011 at 9:23am:

Compare Abraham's conduct, with the conduct of moslems [from an ISLAMIC source].... ....."Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) faced the Black Stone, touched it, and then placed his lips on it and wept for a long time." .....Ibn 'Abbas that 'Umar bent down towards the Black Stone and said: "By Allah! I know that you are a mere stone, and if I had not seen my beloved Prophet (peace be upon him) kissing you and touching you I would have never done so." The Qur'an says: "You have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct)."' ....'Ever since I saw the Prophet (peace be upon him) doing this, I have never failed to do that.' law/fiqhussunnah/fus5_76.html#5.74b Ibn 'Abbas that 'Umar..... 'Ever since I saw the Prophet (peace be upon him) doing this, I have never failed to do that.'

All moslems, venerate and worship Mohammed, not God, not God's righteousness.

Yadda wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2011 at 9:36am:

All moslems, venerate and worship Mohammed, not God, not God's righteousness.

Rubbish Yadda.

Prophet Muhammed's closest companion, who was elected as the Caliph when the prophet passed away, summed up the Islamic position on this issue succinctly:


"Whoever worshipped Muhammad, let him know that Muhammad is dead, but whoever worshipped God, let him know that God lives and dies not."

This is Islamic orthodoxy. Muhammed is a human. Only God Almighty alone has the right to be worship.

The first tenet of faith called out of mosques at the time of prayer makes this clear:

"There is no deity except God".

Islam is the ulimate monotheistic religion.

falah wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2011 at 4:38pm:

Yadda wrote on Oct 2nd, 2011 at 9:36am: All moslems, venerate and worship Mohammed, not God, not God's righteousness. Rubbish Yadda. ....."There is no deity except God". Islam is the ulimate monotheistic religion.

Monotheistic ???

LOL


ISLAM is the ultimate idolatry, committed by men, by moslems.

Dictionary;
idolatry = =
1 worship of idols.
2 adulation.



All moslems commit the crime of shirk.

Shirk = = joining partners with Allah, perhaps the greatest crime.

Google;
shirk crime joining


And all moslems commit open SHIRK, in their adulation of Mohammed.



Throughout the Koran, it is clear that Mohammed is given equal status with Allah....
e.g.
"The people of 'Usaiya have disobeyed Allah and His Apostle."

Throughout the Koran you can see these words repeated, 100's and 100's of times.....

"....Allah and His Apostle.",
"....Allah and His Apostle.",
"....Allah and His Apostle."


e.g.
In the Hadith....

" Narrated Anas:
The Prophet said, "Whoever possesses the following three qualities will have the sweetness (delight) of faith:
1. The one to whom Allah and His Apostle becomes dearer than anything else.
2. Who loves a person and he loves him only for Allah's sake.
3. Who hates to revert to Atheism (disbelief) as he hates to be thrown into the fire." "
Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 15:

Moslems are worshipping Allah and His Apostle.

Shirk is something which is supposed to be 'verbotten' to moslems.

Hypocrites.
Mohammed worshippers!
Idolaters!
.....moslems.


Regards this 'equality' of Mohammed, with Allah, see also....

Part 161 - Muhammad and Allah
http://the-koran.blogspot.com/2008/08/muhammad-allah-part-161.html

Part 163 - Muhammad the Humble
http://the-koran.blogspot.com/2008/08/muhammad-humble-part-163.html

source...
http://www.al-rassooli.com/ahmadsquran3/





It is recorded within ISLAMIC texts that even Aisha Mohammed's 9 year old child bride recognised how Allah's revelations always seemed to coincide with Mohammed's immediate, worldly, desires...

Narrated Aisha:

"I used to look down upon those ladies who had given themselves to Allah's Apostle and I used to say, "Can a lady give herself (to a man)?" But when Allah revealed: "You (O Muhammad) can postpone (the turn of) whom you will of them (your wives), and you may receive any of them whom you will; and there is no blame on you if you invite one whose turn you have set aside (temporarily).' (33.51) I said (to the Prophet), "I feel that your Lord hastens in fulfilling your wishes and desires."  "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #006.060.311


Even Aisha knew that Mohammed was a fraud.

Mohammed, was a fraud, and the author, of his own God and benefactor, Allah.

Mohammed, did not serve Allah.

Allah served Mohammed.

Every time that Mohammed wished to exercise a new lust, Allah obligingly presented Mohammed with a new revelation, sanctioning his new lust.



And moslems today, choose to worship Mohammed, a carnal, self-serving, incestuous, adulterer, and fornicator....and all of these crimes by Mohammed were justified by each of Allah's convenient, and timely new revelation, to sanctify Mohammed's desire.

And it is recorded in ISLAM's own foundation texts, that Mohammed, was a carnal, self-serving, incestuous ['marrying' his son's wife], adulterer, and fornicator [all of that 'war booty', captive women, which Mohammed raped], and a murderer.

And yet moslems today choose to worship Mohammed, the man who, within ISLAM's own foundation texts, is given equal status with Allah.

Moslems will of course deny this, because moslems unerringly, always deny truths which they refuse to acknowledge and confront.

But no moslem can deny that moslems do venerate Mohammed, even demonstrating this veneration, by murdering those who critically scrutinise Mohammed's life and his evil deeds.

Nay, it is Christian who worship a human in the form of Jesus Christ, son of Mary.

Islam absolutely forbids the worshipping of humans including Prophet Muhammed:

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 55, Number 654:

Narrated 'Umar: I heard the Prophet saying, "Do not exaggerate in praising me as the Christians praised the son of Mary, for I am only a Slave. So, call me the Slave of Allah and His Prophet."



The Qur'an, Family of Imran (Jesus' grandfather) v.

144 
: Muhammad is no more than a messenger: many Were the messenger that passed away before him (messengers such as Moses, Abraham, Noah, etc.)...


Other verses from the Quran:


072.018 
"And the places of worship are for God (alone): So invoke not any one along with God.


006.088 
This is the guidance of God: He giveth that guidance to whom He pleaseth, of His worshippers. If they were to join other gods with Him, all that they did would be vain for them.

002.116 
They say: "God hath begotten a son" :Glory be to Him.-Nay, to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth: everything renders worship to Him.

020.014 
"Verily, I am God: There is no god but I: So serve thou Me (only), and establish regular prayer for celebrating My praise.

003.064 
Say: "O People of the Bible! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but God; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than God." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).

018.110 Say: "I am but a man like yourselves, (but) the inspiration has come to me, that your Allah is one Allah: whoever expects to meet his Lord, let him work righteousness, and, in the worship of his Lord, admit no one as partner.

nice sarcasm by aisha there


Quote:

Narrated Aisha: ......... (33.51) I said (to the Prophet), "I feel that your Lord hastens in fulfilling your wishes and desires."  ........... hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #006.060.311

"................Every time that Mohammed wished to exercise a new lust, Allah obligingly presented Mohammed with a new revelation, sanctioning his new lust.

And moslems today, choose to worship Mohammed, a carnal, self-serving, incestuous, adulterer, and fornicator....and all of these crimes by Mohammed were justified by each of Allah's convenient, and timely new revelation, to sanctify Mohammed's desire.

And it is recorded in ISLAM's own foundation texts, that Mohammed, was a carnal, self-serving, incestuous ['marrying' his son's wife], adulterer, and fornicator [all of that 'war booty', captive women, which Mohammed raped], and a murderer..............."

..

falah wrote on Oct 4^th, 2011 at 1:05pm:

Nay, it is Christian who worship a human in the form of Jesus Christ, son of Mary.

Yes, Jesus was a man.

I do not deny it.


But the spirit in the man Jesus was divine, Jesus the man healed the sick, Jesus the man raised the dead to life, drove demons out of men.

The divine aspect of Jesus did those things, not his flesh, not his 'human' being.

I worship the divine, the spirit, in Jesus.
...i do not worship his flesh.



And, i do not worship 'three Gods'.

I worship the one God.

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5  And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

John 4:24
God is a Spirit....







falah,

If i worship a human [Jesus]...

Did Abraham worship a human [man] too ?

Because the Bible records that the LORD God appeared as a man [with two companions], to [biblical] Abraham...

Genesis 18:1
And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2  And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
3  And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
4  Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
5  And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.
6  And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.
7  And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.
8  And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.


falah,

I do not believe that God is a man.

God is not a man, but scripture says that God's feet were washed by Abraham's water, and that God ate Abraham's meat, and that God appeared as a man, to Abraham.


falah,

If God, is God [creator], can he manifest himself [as he pleases], within his own creation ???

And the Bible [OT] says that our creator has manifested himself, many times, and in many differing forms.



And further, God [the creator] in scripture says, that we [mankind], are his created 'children'.

Deuteronomy 32:19
And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.

Isaiah 1:2
Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.

Jeremiah 4:22
For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

Acts 17:28
For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.



But falah, YOUR religion, ISLAM, commands you [and every moslem] to murder me [i.e. a person like myself].

And YOUR religion, ISLAM, is murdering people like me, every day.

falah,

Clearly, you [and all moslems] do not fear God [God's righteousness].

That, is the only conclusion that i can draw.

On your head be it.



falah,

This rebuke was directed to the Jews, but it could equally apply to all moslems....

Romans 10:2
For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3  For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.i

falah wrote on Oct 4^th, 2011 at 1:05pm:

Islam absolutely forbids the worshipping of humans including Prophet Muhammed: Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 55, Number 654: Narrated 'Umar: I heard the Prophet saying, "Do not exaggerate in praising me as the Christians praised the son of Mary, for I am only a Slave. So, call me the Slave of Allah and His Prophet."

And yet ISLAM's own foundation texts tell moslems to venerate and adore 'Allah and His Apostle' with equal adoration.

In the Hadith example i cited....

" Narrated Anas:
The Prophet said, "Whoever possesses the following three qualities will have the sweetness (delight) of faith:
1. The one to whom Allah and His Apostle becomes dearer than anything else.
2. Who loves a person and he loves him only for Allah's sake.
3. Who hates to revert to Atheism (disbelief) as he hates to be thrown into the fire." "
Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 15:



Moslems are commanded by their 'holy' texts to venerate and adore, to worship, 'Allah and His Apostle'.

Deny it falah, LOL, but the contents of Koran and Hadith are a witness against you.

Your're all nuts :D

An Islamic panda walks into a bar. Orders a sandwich. Eats it and then pulls out a gun and shoots everybody.
"Hey whats that all about?" asked the bartender.
Islamic Panda says, "Look it up  for yourself, infidel dog."
The bartender looks up "Islmic panda" in the Encyclopedia of Diversity and reads:
"Islamic Panda - Eats shoots and leaves".

Soren wrote on Oct 5^th, 2011 at 7:35pm:

An Islamic panda walks into a bar. Orders a sandwich. Eats it and then pulls out a gun and shoots everybody. "Hey whats that all about?" asked the bartender. Islamic Panda says, "Look it up  for yourself, infidel dog." The bartender looks up "Islmic panda" in the Encyclopedia of Diversity and reads: "Islamic Panda - Eats shoots and leaves".

the 'lesson'.....

When moslems behave like moslems [become 'activated' moslems, in Jihad 'operations'], we should not be surprised.

Jihad 'operations' are a moslems' raison d’être.

"Kill! Kill! Kill! Allah snackbar! Allah snackbar! Allah snackbar!"



"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods;....they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:..."
Koran 9.111

Kytro wrote on Oct 5^th, 2011 at 7:05pm:

Your're all nuts :D

Kytro,

If the symptoms of being 'nuts', can be described as being in a mental state, which is in denial of reality, then who are the 'nutters' ?

Hmmmm ?

Google;
islam is a peace loving, tolerant philosophy

"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260





Dictionary;
schizophrenia = = a long-term mental disorder of a type involving a breakdown in the relation between thought, emotion, and behaviour, leading to faulty perception, inappropriate actions and feelings, and withdrawal from reality into fantasy and delusion.


Dictionary;
delusion = =
1 an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is not in accordance with a generally accepted reality.
2 the action of deluding or being deluded.





http://www.jihadwatch.org/London_Bus_2.jpg
ISLAM IS PEACE campaign - London

Because ISLAMISTS really love us infidels.

Honest.


source of image...
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/018326.php



+++



http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41725000/jpg/_41725714_bus_getty.jpg

Moslems claim it is wrong and 'offensive', to associate this image with ISLAM / moslems.

MOSLEM LIES, AND DECEPTION.

Listen to this and tell me what is not true in it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSx9aw99NLc