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Australian Politics Forum
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl Member Run Boards >> Extremism Exposed >> Christians Rampage Through Cairo http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1318207654 Message started by falah on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:47am

Title: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 10:47am

10,000 Christians Conduct Violent Riot in Cairo

Nineteen people were killed in Cairo Sunday when a protest by Coptic Christians turned into hours of bloody street clashes.

State TV said at least 3 soldiers were among the dead...

They threw rocks and petrol bombs at each other and fought with sticks before the street battles entered Tahrir Square, Cairo's Times Square and the epicenter of the February uprising.

Thousands were involved and the air was heavy with tear gas, witnesses said.

Footage of the riots showed Coptic protesters attacking a soldier.

Witnesses said some protesters snatched weapons from the soldiers and turned them on the military.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2011/10/09/2011-10-09_riots_erupt_at_christians_protest_in_cairo_leaving_at_least_12_dead.html#ixzz1aKq3rdXT

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Soren on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 12:42pm

Now why would a 10% minority do such a thing?

"Christians, who make up 10 percent of Egypt's roughly 80 million people, took to the streets after blaming Muslim radicals for partially demolishing a church in Aswan province last week. They also demanded the sacking of the province's governor for failing to protect the building."

We all know how precarious the existence of all non-Muslims is in so-called Muslim countries like Egypt, for example. Those Coptic Christians, they are not immigrants, by the way. They are the remnants of the orginal Christian population of the entire area before the Muslim invasion. Some of the oldest Christian churches, predating Mohammed, are in Egypt, Syria, Turkey.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Soren on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 1:18pm

meanwhile in Tunisia.

Tunisia Salafists 'attack private TV station'
(AFP) – 15 hours ago

TUNIS — Around 300 Tunisian Salafists on Sunday attacked the headquarters of a private TV station that aired a French-Iranian film and organised a debate on religious extremism, the channel said.

"Three hundred people attacked our offices and tried to set fire to them," Nessma chairman Nebil Karoui told AFP, explaining that death threats had been sent after Friday night's showing of "Persepolis", an animation film on Iran's Islamic revolution.

The interior ministry's spokesman, Hichem Meddeb, confirmed the incident and said that up to around 100 people had been rounded up.

"Some 200 Salafists who were later joined by another hundred people headed towards Nessma to attack the station. Security forces stepped in and broke up the posse," he told AFP.

"After we aired 'Persepolis' on Friday, there were messages posted on Facebook calling for Nessma to be torched and our journalists to be killed," Karoui said.

"Persepolis" is an internationally-acclaimed French-Iranian animation feature based on Marjane Satrapi's autobiographical and eponymous graphic novel.

It describes the last days of the US-backed shah's regime and the subsequent 1979 revolution led by Ayatollah Khomeiny through the eyes of a young girl.

The airing of the film in the local dialect was a first in Tunisia.

"We are used to threats but what is alarming is that this time they put words into action," Karoui said.

"Nessma is the progressist channel in the Maghreb and we will not be deterred. We will continue to programme whatever we choose. We did not kick one dictatorship out to bring in another," he said.

Salafists are one of the most conservative and radical currents in political Islam.

Many observers have voiced fears that the Arab Spring -- which started in Tunisia -- would herald the rise of Islamist hardliners across the region.AFP

The rise of hardline Islamists - that's what's happening in Egypt and elsewhere in the 'Arab Spring' countries.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 4:17pm

Soren wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 12:42pm:

Didn't see Muslims rioting here in Australia when five mosques were firebombed !

This just proves that Christianity is inherently violent and its adherents are just waiting for an excuse to rampage against Muslims.

Remember the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition?

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Soren on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 8:36pm

falah wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 4:17pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 12:42pm:

SO you'd better watch it, buster, we are even crazier than you Islamist crazies. You have been tinkering with the lock on the blond beast's cage. Better stand clear when you finally spring him free.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43W_Qy1A7jQ
:D

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Sprintcyclist on Oct 11^th, 2011 at 12:40am

the deceitful falah

Quote:

.................after 24 people, mostly Coptic Christians, died in clashes with security forces ................
...............The violence began as a protest against an earlier attack on a church in Aswan province. It appeared aimed at the military council that has ruled Egypt since the spring revolution ................
..............

http://www.theage.com.au/world/24-dead-hundreds-injured-as-cairo-erupts-20111010-1lhfz.html

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 11^th, 2011 at 12:13pm

Christian Trouble Makers Killed 3 members of Egypt's army

Christian troublemakers throwing rocks at the army

Christian troublemakers bring petrol bombs to their "peaceful" protest:

Christian troublemakers destroy private property:

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 11^th, 2011 at 12:19pm

Christians Pretend IT wasn't Them Who Started Riot:

Quote:

Egypt's Coptic Orthodox church headed by Pope Shenuda III on Monday blamed "infiltrators" for triggering clashes in which 24 people were killed, most of them Christian.

"The Christian faith denounces violence. Strangers infiltrated the demonstration and committed the crimes for which the Copts have been blamed," the church said in a statement issued after Shenuda held a meeting with 70 church leaders...
AFP

Yeah right! Start a riot, then conveniently blame "infiltrators" afterwards.

If anyone saw ABC midday news, it was obvious from the footage shown that it was Christian priests inciting and revving up the Christians.

This priest must be an "infiltrator":

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 11^th, 2011 at 12:37pm

Footage of Christian mob attacking army and destroying private property.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-UQ9OCY9eA

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 11^th, 2011 at 2:42pm

Are Israeli Spies Inciting Sectarian Claches?
Reports say that Israeli spies are paying people to behave violently and are even giving speeches inciting sectarian hatred:

Egypt arrests 'Israeli spy'

An Israeli has been arrested in Egypt for reported engagement in espionage during the popular revolution in the country.

Judicial sources as have referred to the suspect as an intelligence officer, but have not identified him by name, Reuters reported.

The suspect was trying to recruit the young people to commit treason against Cairo during the popular protests in the Egyptian capital's Liberation Square, Reuters reported.

“He was there on a daily basis inciting youths towards sectarian strife. He was distributing money to some of them,” said a judiciary source, adding that he would try to provoke the potential recruits into fighting the Egyptian armed forces.

The arrest was enabled by the youths, who would be approached by the suspect.

Earlier in the year, a member of Israeli General Staff Reconnaissance Unit, Sayeret Matkal, was arrested in Egypt amid massive anti-government protests...
Source

Suspected Israeli spy declared himself Muslim to get Egypt visa

Ilan Grapel, a Jewish American citizen detained in Egypt, may face trial next week on suspicion of espionage, the Egyptian newspaper Al-Ahram reports.

Ilan Grapel, the Jewish American citizen detained in Egypt under suspicion of espionage for Israel, declared he was Muslim in order to get a visa, the Egyptian newspaper Al-Ahram reported Thursday...

Ilan Grapel in Tahrir Square in a picture taken from his Facebook account.

The report states that Grapel identified himself as Muslim when he requested a visa for Egypt at the Egyptian consulate in Tel Aviv.

The newspaper also claims that Grapel is a Mossad agent who tried to recruit Egyptians and spark a conflict between the Egyptian people and the army...

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/suspected-israeli-spy-declared-himself-muslim-to-get-egypt-visa-1.368033

Ex-classmate of accused Israeli spy Ilan Grapel: He “was a standard campus pro-Israel…type”

I received the following from a friend who says he was personally acquainted with Ilan Grapel, the man Egyptian authorities are accusing of having spied for Israel:

Quote:

knew the guy as we all worked for the security department at johns hopkins. the school provided these shuttles taking students/faculty/employees within a mile radius or so of campus, for safety. he was a dispatcher if i remember right, i was a driver of the vans. i’d say we were friendly acquaintances...

...was a fairly standard campus pro-israel rally attendee type in those days, when those groups were a lot louder than they are now. not really remarkable, same canned lines and the whole lot back then. other friends knew him a bit better. i don’t think bragging about wanting to join the israeli army some day was remarkable back then or even now.

last i heard about him from a friend was he got shot in the shoulder during the lebanon war in 2006 and couldn’t raise one of his arms over his head anymore, may have gotten some kind of compensation for that. there were a couple of kids i knew who had aspirations to go to the middle east in the future to learn arabic, to help “understand the enemy” in hopes of being of some use to israeli society.

Reader Comments

Quote:

jonj says:
June 15, 2011 at 7:54 am

See also: http://www.globalpost.com/webblog/egypt/spy-our-revolution

The hasbara trainers The Israel Project, affirmed he was a summer intern in 2008. He also wrote for the Australia/Israel & Jewish Affairs Council during which he attacked Australia’s Green Left Weekly http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/41965 ; The Australian article is no longer on the Australian website blogger Dave Riley has it: “A willing ally to Hamas’s hatred” http://leftclickblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/what-you-miss-not-reading-arabic-and.html

http://maxblumenthal.com/2011/06/ex-classmate-of-accused-israeli-spy-ilan-grapel-he-was-a-standard-campus-pro-israel-type/

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 11^th, 2011 at 2:48pm

The Egyptian authorities and the state news agency revealed on Sunday June 12 2011 that they have arrested Ilan Chaim Grappelli/Grapel, (אילן גרפל ), known in Israel as Ilan Goren (אילן גורן), an American-Israeli Mossad agent, a war criminal who participated in the atrocities of the Lebanon “second war” in 2006, and a former paratrooper soldier who had infiltrated the Egyptian revolutionists and was causing trouble, spying on the military and the revolutionaries, photographing people and reporting to the Mossad, distributing money to some Egyptians and recruiting them in order to cause chaos, to steal and to sabotage public infrastructure in the country...

...According to the Egyptian intelligence services, Grappelli, the Mossad officer appeared in Egypt shortly before the start of the January 25 uprising, he entered the country with forged Visa and he was among the first elements that existed in Tahrir Square, and he was photographed and his movements followed closely after he had raised suspicions. He visited several regions in Egypt, including North of Sinai, He monitored gas pipelines, the relationship between the Egyptians and the Palestinians. The spy introduced himself to the resistance at Al-Tahrir Square as a “foreign correspondent” supposedly covering the anti-government protests in Cairo. The movements and phone calls of the spy were monitored and filmed in Egypt before his arrest.

Several images of the spy were released by the Egyptian authorities, showing that he had appeared in various places throughout Egypt. In some images is seen raising signs among the demonstrators, in another one he appears at the jewish synagogue, and in others he is seen around areas affected by violence and troubles.

The Egyptian intelligence service was able to track the messages and contacts of the mossad agent with the Israeli government and to some western countries and the USA...

Information gathered by the Egyptian intelligence service confirmed that the Israeli spy belonged to the Israeli military and that he had been injured during the Lebanon war of 2006.

According to intelligence sources, Goren/Grapel/Grappelli had participated in the perpetration heinous massacres, war crimes against Lebanese villagers in southern Lebanon. They also published some of his pictures with military uniform during the second Lebanon war.

The Mossad spy admitted that he was assigned to a variety of roles in Egypt in order to generate trouble and that he had paid money to some elements in Egypt so that they would assist him in the implementation of the plan, which was about causing strife and chaos in the country and repeating rumors that would prevent the stabilization of the situation in Egypt. He also admitted that he had paid some elements for the dissemination of rumors and for exploding the pipeline which provides Israel and Jordan with gas.

...It should be noted that previously, three alleged Mossad espionage cells were dismantled in Lebanon and Syria and that Israel has a history of implanting Mossad cells all over western and Arab countries and that there are no doubts that it is behind many horrible crimes such as assassinations of politicians, theft, smuggling of drugs, jewelry, diamonds, weapons, organ trafficking etc., all perpetrated for the advantage of Israel and other Zionist interests. Simply said, Israel is a big threat for security of all people and countries of the world.

http://www.terminalx.org/#axzz1PQrS7KAI

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 11^th, 2011 at 2:50pm

American-Israeli Mossad agent Ilan Grapel delivered a speech at Al Azhar Mosque

The investigation of Ilan Chaim Grapel / Grappelli, (אילן גרפל), an American-Israeli citizen being held in Egypt on espionage charges purportedly, revealed that he had entered the country on 28 January...with a US passport and a tourist visa and that mossad had tasked him with collecting information about the Muslim Brotherhood, Coptic Christians, the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces and the revolutionary youth. Grapel then left Egypt and entered again on last February 11 2011 on a direct flight from Frankfurt, he then left Egypt on February 15 2011 and entered again on last May 10 2011 through the airport of Cairo, using US passport. He resided in a hotel in downtown Cairo.

Investigators say that he went to the Virgin Mary church in Imbaba a day before the sectarian violence took place there....

...He speaks Arabic well and was able to establish friendly relations with a group of young Egyptians and Arabs. He took advantage of his mastery of the Arabic language to conceal his identity and access information about the revolution for the Israeli mossad, of which he had become a member since joining the Israel army.

It must be said that all Israelis who speaks Arabic are engaged by the Israeli intelligence services, Shabak, Shin Beit, Aman, or have served as interrogators, or at police or army units serving as occupational forces in the occupied territories and perpetrated war crimes in my homeland Palestine...

Ilan Chaim Grabel during a meeting with Islamic brothers at Al-Azhar.

Grapel also gave a speech at the Al-Azhar mosque in Egypt, in which he demanded that the Egyptian worshipers should target the military...and generally incited the audience to engage in violence. He gave other “Islamic” speeches in the Hussein area and at Tahrir Square and in front of Maspero. He recorded the events, his speeches and the audience in video and he even managed to recruit some young people and convince them to attack the armed forces who were at al-Tahrir Square securing the demonstrators.

Ilan Chaim Grabel during a meeting with Jewish friends at a Synagogue.

http://www.terminalx.org/#axzz1PQrS7KAI

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Sprintcyclist on Oct 11^th, 2011 at 2:59pm

there are all the secret spies.
with their piccies on blogsites.

Got their mob #'s too ? Addresses ?

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 11^th, 2011 at 4:08pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 11^th, 2011 at 2:59pm:

there are all the secret spies.
with their piccies on blogsites.

Got their mob #'s too ? Addresses ?

Attack on the Mavi Marmara - Names of the Israeli Navy Commandos Released

Soldiers found on Facebook

The Names of the Soldiers:

Avi Peled,
Aviad Perri,
Aviel Siman,
Avihay Wizman,
Avihu Ben Zahar,
Avishay Levi,
Avishay Shasha,
Aviv Edri,
Aviv Kochavi,
Aviv Mendelowitz,
Baruch (Barry) Berlinsky,
Basam Alian,
Ben-Zion (Benzi) Gruver,
Bnaya Sarel,
Boaz Dabush,
Boaz Rubin,
Boris Schuster,
Dado Bar- Kalifa,
Dan Dolberg,
Dan Harel,
Daniel Kotler,
David Shapira,
David Slovozkoi,
David Zini,
Eden Atias,
Eden Atias,
Efraim Aviad Tehila,
Efraim Avni,
Eitan Ben-Gad,
Elad Chachkis,
Elad Itzik,
Elad Shoshan,
Elad Yakobson,
Eli Fadida,
Eli Yafe,
Eliezer Shkedi,
Elik Sror,
Eran Karisi,
Erez Sa’adon,
Eyal Eizenberg,
Eyal Handelman,
Eyal Zukowsky,
Gil Shen,
Gur Rozenblat,
Gur Schreibmann,
Guy Givoni,
Guy Hazut,
Haggai Amar,
Hanan Schwart,
Harel Naaman,
Hila Yafe,
Ido Nechushtan,
Ilan Malka,
Itay Virob,
Liran Nachman,
Michelle Ben-Baruch,
Miki Ohayon,
Moshe Tamir,
Nadav Musa,
Nathan Be’eri,
Nezah Rubin,
Nimrod Schefer,
Nir Ohayon,
Niv Samban,
Noam Keshwisky,
Ofek Gal,
Ofer Lahad,
Ofer Levi,
Ofer Winter,
Ofer Zafrir,
Ofir Edri,
Ohad Girhish,
Ohad Najme,
Omer Dori,
Omri Dover,
Or Nelkenbaum,
Oren Bersano,
Oren Cohen,
Oren Kupitz,
Oren Zini,
Pinkhas Buchris,
Raz Sarig,
Ron Asherov,
Ron Levinger,
Ron Shirto,
Ronen Dan,
Ronen Dogmi,
Roi Elkabetz,
Roi Oppenheimer,
Roi Weinberger,
Sahar Abargel,
Shai Belaich,
Shaked Galin,
Sharon Itach,
Shaul Badusa,
Shay Unger,
Shimon Siso,
Shiran Mussa,
Shlomit Tako,
Tal Alkobi,
Tal Bendel,
Tal Kommemi,
Tal Ruso,
Tamir Oren,
Tamir Yadai,
Tom Cohen,
Tomer Meltzmann,
Geva Rapp,
Tslil Birbir,
Udi Sagie,
Uri Ron,
Yair Keinan,
Yair Palay,
Ya’akov(Yaki) Dolf,
Yaniv Zolicha,
Yaron Finkelman,
Yaron Simsulo,
Yehosua (Shuki) Ribak,
Yehu Ofer,
Yehuda Fuchs,
Yehuda Hacohen,
Yigal Slovik,
Yigal Sudri,
Yizhar Yona,
Yoav Galant,
Yoav Gertner,
Yoav Mordechai,
Yochai Siemann,
Yochanan Locker,
Yom-Tov Samia,
Yonathan Barenski,
Yonathan Felman,
Yoni Weitzner,
Yossi Abuzaglo,
Yossi Bahar,
Yossi Beidaz,
Yotam Dadon,
Yishai Ankri,
Yishai Green,
Yuval Halamish,
Zion Bramli,
Zion Shankour,
Ziv Danieli,
Ziv Trabelsi,
Zuf Salomon,
Zvi Fogel,
Zvi Yehuda Kelner.

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/september272011/mavi-marmara-sc.php

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 11^th, 2011 at 4:16pm

Also mentioned in other reports:

Agai Yehezkel, Aharon Haliwa, Alex Shakliar, Amir Ulo, Amir Abste, Amir Shimon Ashel, Anna Strelski, Anton Siomin, Aram Zehavi, Ariel, Ariel, Ariel, Ariel Diamonds, Brickman Rifkin, Yochanan, Arnon, Avi Avital, Avi Bnayahu, Assaf Bryt Balut,

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Soren on Oct 11^th, 2011 at 7:49pm

So you'd better watch what you say, galah... Shin Bet is watching you.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 11^th, 2011 at 11:28pm

Unlike you, I only fear God Almighty.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 11^th, 2011 at 11:37pm

Christians Using Molotov Cocktails

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Soren on Oct 11^th, 2011 at 11:47pm

falah wrote on Oct 11^th, 2011 at 11:28pm:

Unlike you, I only fear God Almighty.

Oh yeah? Prove it.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Yadda on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 12:37am

falah wrote on Oct 11^th, 2011 at 11:28pm:

Unlike you, I only fear God Almighty.

falah,

If moslems don't fear infidels, and 'only fear God Almighty', then why do moslems lie to [deceive] infidels [about ISLAM] ?

Why do you misrepresent ISLAM, and misrepresent even God, to non-moslems ?

Misrepresent even God, to non-moslems ?

e.g.
What version of the OT were you quoting ?

Bible Promotes Terror
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1317837562/0#0

And;

Falsely stating that Jews [and therefore the Jewish God] regard non-Jews are soulless 'animals', who may be cheated;

"Even the Jews are forbidden from doing usury - but the rabbis said it would it be OK if they cheated and conducted usury with non-Jews as long as they did not make a contract between two Jews. This is because Judaism teaches that non-Jews are souless animals."

Malaysia, no benevolent model of an ISLAMIC state
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1318121778/5#5

Whereas the OT scripture [the source of Jewish law] states;

Deuteronomy 10:17-19
For the LORD your God... loveth the stranger, ...Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by helian on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 5:42am

falah wrote on Oct 10^th, 2011 at 4:17pm:

Remember the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition?

Do you?

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Amadd on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 7:20am

Those Islamic people really do get their way through terrorism don't they?
Abu has banned me for the past 18 months and denied my democratic right of an opinion....on a so-called free froum.

Those Islamic fundamentalist assholes who want to lash that poor woman need to be shot.
It's a disgrace. >:(

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by helian on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 7:27am

Amadd wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 7:20am:

Fundamentalist zealots are pernicious garbage... It's rife in (but not limited to) Islamic communities.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Sprintcyclist on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 8:09am

Amadd wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 7:20am:

yes, I have been banned for years also, by the paedophile praisers

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 8:26am

Jewish View Of Non-Jews as Taught in Their Talmud

Jews cheat God by applying their laws ony to themselves:

The Jewish Encyclopedia, under "Gentiles" sums up the matter with some intentional deceptive protective filler, thus: "The Pharisees held that only Israelites are MEN..." (Baba Mezia being cited in the Talmud)

Misusing Scripture shamelessly and characteristically, the Scriptural lines about God shining are misinterpreted to mean that God shined His laws to Moses on all the nations but since only the Israelites accepted them "He withdrew His ‘shining' legal protection from them, and transferred their property rights to Israel."

Then: "It follows that the Gentiles were excepted from the general civil laws of Moses," and the Baba Kamma Talmud law on ox-goring is cited.

As usual, here Moses is flouted for he taught again and again that the stranger is not only to be treated the same as the "home-born," or the Israelites, were: "the stranger that dwellleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him a thyself for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt...Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment, in meteyard, in weight, or in measure." (Leviticus 19:34-35) "Love ye therefore the stranger..." (Deuteronomy 10:19; Numbers 9:14; 15:29); "One law and one manner shall be for you and for the stranger that sojourneth with you." (Numbers 15:15-16, 28)

Jews Allowed To Steal non-Jewish Property

The Talmud teaches, as the Jewish Encyclopedia records, that non-Jews have no property rights. Their possessions are "like unclaimed land in the desert." The illustration is given of the Big Shot Rabbi Ashi of the 4th century who, knowing this, acted accordingly and gave "an adroit and evasive answer" when questioned by the Gentile owner of a vineyard who overheard Ashi tell his slave to go into his vineyard and get him some grapes if the vineyard belonged to a Gentile, but not to take any if the owner be a Jew. "Is it permitted to take from a Gentile?" the owner asked. Ashi's evasive answer is given with the explanation that it showed: "In truth Ashi coincided with the opinion of the authority stated above: namely, that...Gentile ...property is considered public property, like unclaimed land in the desert."

And the authority above, the one which holds that Gentile property is like unclaimed land in the desert, is Baba Bathra 54b, there cited. This passage appears on page 222 of the Soncino edition: "Rab Judah said in the name of Samuel: The property of a heathen is on the same footing as desert land; whoever first occupies it acquires ownership."

Jews Free To Cause Harm To non-Jews

Baba Kamma 7b states the doctrine of all Talmudism in terms of injury done by oxen. If a Canaanite's (Gentile's) ox gores another Canaanite's ox or an Israelite's ox gores that of another Israelite, damages MUST BE PAID. But, if an Israelite's ox gores the ox of a non-Jew, or Canaanite, "THERE IS NO LIABILITY!" It makes no difference whether the animal was or was not fierce and a gorer which should have been kept shut up. Injury done to the property of a non-human "Canaanite" by the property of a human is perfectly legitimate. One does not reimburse "animals" for their loss of property.

Talmud Encourages Cheating Of non-Jews

Lives of the "Saints" on Cheating

Baba Kamma 113a-113b: This inspirational passage are examples of the pillars, the "saints" of Pharisaism, in cheating, deceiving, lying to Gentiles. Let us sit at the feet of these "masters."

The great Samuel who brought a gold bowl of a Gentile while pretending what he knew was false; that the bowl was brass, also cheated the goy on the change besides. This great man who bested a Gentile "ass" was the supreme head of the Talmud academy at Nehardea, Babylonia, where he had been born and died (about 257 A.D.) to be glorified in Talmudic legend. He wears today the Talmudic halo (of Satan's deception) as a figure to be emulated.

Continuing this religious exercise of Baba Kamma 11b, we see that cute old duck, Rabbi Kahana, who pretended to the goy that he was buying 100 barrels he knew to be 120, and while the goy was telling him: "I am relying upon you as to the number of the barrels," Kahana also short-changed him. What a clever man.

Rabina is another saint of Talmudism mentioned in this same passage. He was an associate of Rabbi Ashi whose noble example about stealing grapes is cited by the Jewish Encyclopedia, as mentioned above. Ashi was director of the Talmud academy at Sura, Babylonia, then the "Vatican" of world Talmudism, and Rabina was his assistant: "Next to Ashi, Rabina had the greatest share in the redaction of the Talmud undertaken by Ashi and his colleagues." (Jewish Encyclopedia, "Rabina I") This "saint' who died about 420 A.D., brought a palm, we humble ones are taught, together with a goy or Gentile, which was to be divided. After being chopped up, Rabina sent his slave telling him to bring him the choice parts "QUICK" but to take the right number as the goy knew the number and it is not smart to get caught cheating the goy. Cute?

You can learn and practice these noble deeds by studying 113a-113b of Baba Kamma.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 8:30am

More of the Jewish View of Non-Jews as Taught in Their Talmudic Scripture

Stealing Women, Goods, Murdering Gentiles

Sanhedrin 57a is in the"chief repository of the criminal law of the Talmud" (together with Makkoth or beatings), which is the book of Sanhedrin. In Sanhedrin 57a, the footnote explains that the censor (for the Talmudists) inserted the word "Cuthean" in substitution for the word GOY or Gentile, to fool the possible non-Jewish reader as to the real meaning: "With respect to robbery; if one stole or robbed (Footnote: by secret stealing or by open violence) or seized a beautiful woman, or committed similar offenses, if these were perpetrated by one Cuthean (Christian) against another, the theft, etc., must not be kept, and likewise the theft of an Israelite by a Cuthean, BUT THAT of a CUTHEAN by a JEW MAY BE RETAINED." Sufficient filler is inserted in the footnotes to confuse the (average) goy reader, with a reference to the footnote on Baba Kamma 7b. There, the lying suppositions that non-Jews have no "aw of social justice" are said to justify this inhuman standard of immorality taught by the ox-goring Mishna of Baba Kamma 37b and elsewhere in the whole Talmud.

Murder: "For murder, whether of a Cuthean by a Cuthean or of an Israelite by a Cuthean, PUNISHMENT is INCURRED: but of a Cuthean by an Israelite (Jew), THERE IS NOT DEATH PENALTY." And confusing miasma is inserted in the footnote. But the same doctrine abides throughout the whole Talmud. Glancing at the Jewish Encyclopedia article on "Gentiles" we see that Rabbi Simon ben Yohai's edict is: "The best among the Gentiles deserves to be killed." Three and a half large pages are devoted to this last worthy, whose black magic voodoo is venerated by the Cabalists in Talmudism. (See Jewish Encyclopedia under "Simeon ben Yohai") He was a pupil of the second century revolutionist Akiba, another top "saint," under whose leadership SOME MILLION NON-JEWS WERE MURDERED until put down by the Romans.

Cheating a Gentile Out of Wages
THE ORIGIN OF THE WITHHOLDING TAX!

Sanhedrin 57b: The oily reasons for pure Satanism being taught are sometimes amusing in their transparency. Applying it to "withholding of a labourer's wage. One Cuthean from another, or a Cuthean from an Israelite is forbidden, but an Israelite from a CUTHEAN is PERMITTED," says the Talmud text. The laugh is in the footnote which states that: "This only borders on a robbery, for actual robbery means depriving a person of what he already possess." So, if a laborer never gets his wages he cannot be robbed of what he never got. The shyster mind at work.

Sodomy and Killing a Gentile

Sanhedrin 58b: This Sanhedrin 58b passage not only states that sodomy or: "Unnatural connection is permitted to a Jew" and permits sodomy with a "neighbor's wife," but also teaches that "If a heathen smites a Jew he is worthy of death." The Bible is hooked in then characteristically by mentioning that Moses killed an Egyptian who was mistreating one of his flock. This follows: "Rabbi Hanina also said: ‘He who smites an Israelite on the jaw, is as though he had thus assaulted the Divine Presence.'" By turning one word into another, then without rhyme or reason picking out a verse in Proverbs 20:25 ("It is a snare to man who devoureth that which is holy..."), the teaching is evolved that "One who smiteth MAN; that is an Israelite, attacketh the Holy One." The basic Pharisee teaching being, of course that only Pharisees are "men."

Only Jews are Men

The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia: "The Pharisees...held that only Israelites (Jews) are MEN...Gentiles they are classed not as MEN but as barbarians," says the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia, article on "Gentiles." After the word MEN in the above passage, you may not in the original, is this: "quoting the prophet, ‘Ye my flock the flock of my pasture are MEN,'" with Ezekiel 34:31 given as the Biblical, Baba Mezia 108b as the Talmudic basis for this doctrine. What of the sense?

The Ezekiel verse ends the 34th chapter, a parable about good and bad cattle, promised justice and a Redeemer, being addressed as a "flock:" "and I will judge between cattle and cattle. And I will set up one shepherd over them, even my servant David" (Christ) the whole ending with the explanation of the parable "And ye my flock...are men" (not cattle) and I am your God, saith the Lord God."

The Talmud invents and adds to the above words in the Baba Mezia 108b passage: "Only ye are designated as ‘MEN.'" This Ezekiel verse is a popular quotation in the Talmud, always misused to infer that Talmudists are MEN but non-Talmudists are beasts, cattle.

The Baba Mezia passage is about the graves of Gentiles which rank like the graves of animals. "The graves of Gentiles do not defile," (WHENEVER A CEMETERY IS DESECRATED, IT IS YOUNG JEWS ACTING OUT THIS PASSAGE IN THE TALMUD; WITH RABBI SUPERVISION) is the edict based upon this same Ezekiel verse: "Ye are my flock...are MEN," and reference is made to Numbers 19:14 which lays out the rule that when a man has died in his tent, those who come in to the tent are suspect for seven days; as thy may have caught the communicable disease, perhaps, which killed the corpse. But that rule does not apply to dead Gentiles. They do not rank as human carcasses. The sage who mouths this last choice bit is the above mentioned Rabbi Simeon ben Yohai (Baba Mezia 114a-114b, p. 651, Soncino edition)

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 8:37am

Kill the Gentile Who Studies the (Torah) Talmud

There is a sound reason for the doctrine that: "A heathen who studies the Torah deserves death...it is our inheritance, not theirs...he is as guilty as one who violates a betrothed maiden." Of course knowledge of the anti-human criminality of the Talmud Torah would put non-Jews on their guard.

The footnote explains: "This seems a very strong expression...it is suggested that Rabbi Johanan feared the knowledge of Gentiles in matters of Jurisprudence, as they would use it against the Jew in their opponents' courts...the Talmud places R. Johanan's dictum... immediately after the passage dealing with the setting up of law courts by Gentiles." And it goes on to say that study of the Oral Law (Talmud) is what is feared, and the same R. Johanan also said "God's covenant with Israel was only for the sake of the Oral Law."

Murdering Non-Jews Allowed

Sanhedrin 79b: Murdering Gentiles might be classed with killing wild animals for which the State pays one a bounty, according to the Talmud. Even more, the attempt to kill a Gentile so sanctifies a Jew that if he kills another "human," or Jew, in the attempt, the sin is washed away and there is no penalty. This sport flourishes in Jewish- Countries. The core of the long harangue in Sanhedrin 78b-79a is if a Jew "intended killing...a heathen and he killed a Israelite...he is not liable." After typical silly twaddle, this is repeated in the Gemara, BUT: "if he intended killing one Israelite and killed another, HE IS Liable. The next page, weighing the purity of the killer's heart, says if a Jew "threw a stone into a company of Israelites and heathens...Shall we say the company consisted of nine heathens and one Israelite...his NON-LIABILITY can be inferred from the fact that the majority were heathens...even if half and half...Since...we do not know whether he aimed at an Israelite or a heathen...he is not liable." A footnote concludes that this "verse under discussion teaches that the murderer IS NOT LIABLE." Even the breath of suspicion that the Jews was trying to kill a Gen5tile purifies him and purges him of the murder of another Jew, or "human." Ah. The beauties of"brotherhood" as taught by Talmudism.

Non-Jews Must Suffer to Make Jews The Messiah

Sanhedrin 98b: Although some Jews look for a War Lord individual who will help place Jewry on the throne of the world THE ACTUAL VIEW OF JUDAISM IS THAT THE JEWISH PEOPLE THEMSELVES COMPRISE THE MESSIAH, AND THEIR REIGN IS THE MESSIANIC REIGN (Foretold for Christ in the Bible) The tribulation foretold to precede the reign of Christ, in which Satanism strives to subdue the world, is scoffed at by the Talmud and called "fictitious." Babylonian power will not fall. The tribulation will be but "the throes of mother Zion which is in labor to bring forth the Messiah; without metaphor, the Jewish people. (Kethuboth 111a) In other words, to call the Jewish people the Messiah is no metaphor; they are literally just that; they are the Messiah, says the Talmud.

The passage in Sanhedrin 98b records the exulting words of the pharisee Rabbis: "The Jews are destined to eat their fill in the days of the Messiah." Above these words is this: "When the ox runs and falls, the horse is put into his stall," which is explained thus: "it will be difficult to remove the Gentiles from their position without inflicting much suffering." And then: "The years of plenty which the Messiah will usher in will be enjoyed by the Israelites."

The congregation of Israel was ever a racial entity; the Bible testifies to that. All blessings promised to True Israel and Christians are stolen by the Jews.

Let the Gentiles Mourn

Sanhedrin 98b-99a: One of those typical cover-up passages reads: "a Min (Christian)_said to Rabbi Abbahu, ‘When will the Messiah come?' He replied, ‘When darkness covers those people;' Alluding to the questioner and his companions, ‘You curse me,' he exclaimed." Concerning the "darkness:" "The cock said to the bat, ‘I look forward to the light, because I have sight; but of what use is the light to thee?'"

All this is explained: "Thus Israel should hope for the redemption, because it will be a day of light to them, but why should the Gentiles, seeing that for them it will be a day of darkness?"

Non-Jews Are "The People Who Are Like an Ass"

Kethuboth 111b: The utterly mad way in which the Bible is tossed about to make a "Whited sepulchre" fro Talmudic Babylonian filth and criminality is illustrated by Kethuboth 111a. A reach here, and a grab there, and the Pharisee "sages" make out their own Satanic meaning out of unrelated scriptural verses, plays on words, and other childish devices. We see in Kethuboth 111a: "it is written, ‘Unto the people upon it,'" and this is hooked to Isaiah 42:5 in the footnote. Isaiah 42:5 is a verse which refers to God as: "he that spread forth the earth...he that giveth breath unto the people upon it," which has nothing to do with what follows immediately: "and elsewhere it is written, ‘Abide ye here with the ASS' which may be rendered 'PEOPLE THAT ARE LIKE AN ASS; SLAVES WHO ARE CONSIDERED THE PROPERTY OF THE MASTER.'"

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Sprintcyclist on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 9:02am

typical backward looking muzzie.

get up to date. you are 1400 years behind AND looking backward from there!!!!!!!

we have automobiles now, not that there is a muslim car.
you lot are too repressed to make one.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Yadda on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 11:25am

falah wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 8:26am:

Jewish View Of Non-Jews as Taught in Their Talmud

(Baba Mezia being cited in the Talmud)

and the Baba Kamma Talmud law on ox-goring is cited.

The Talmud teaches, ......"

Baba Kamma 7b states the doctrine of all Talmudism

Talmud Encourages Cheating Of non-Jews

.....the supreme head of the Talmud academy at Nehardea, Babylonia,

Rabina is another saint of Talmudism

Ashi was director of the Talmud academy at Sura, Babylonia,

falah,

Is the Talmud authorised scripture ?

No.

falah,

As you well know, or should know, OT scripture, the 5 books of Moses, are the exclusive source of Jewish law, God's law, for the Jewish people.

Those Jews who go to other sources for guidance in matters of law, are corrupting themselves.

An example of what the God of Israel, said, about how ALL Jewish people should interact with non-Jews....

Exodus 12:49
One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Exodus 22:21
Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him...

Exodus 23:9
Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger...

Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself...

Leviticus 25:47-49
[these verses clearly speak of [and reveal that it was entirely 'lawful'] for Hebrews [themselves] to become bond servants [slaves], to prosperous strangers living among the Hebrews.]

Deuteronomy 1:16
And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

Deuteronomy 10:17-19
For the LORD your God... loveth the stranger, ...Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Deuteronomy 24:17
Thou shalt not pervert the judgment of the stranger, nor of the fatherless; nor take a widow's raiment to pledge:
18 But thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in Egypt, and the LORD thy God redeemed thee thence: therefore I command thee to do this thing.

Deuteronomy 27:19
Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger...

+++

Jeremiah 31:27
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.
28 And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD.
29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Yadda on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 11:37am

falah wrote on Oct 11^th, 2011 at 11:28pm:

Unlike you, I only fear God Almighty.

falah,

I doubt it.

If you feared God, you would respect, and acknowledge God's righteousness.

Romans 10:3
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Sound's to me, like that Romans 10:3 verse could exactly, without qualification, be applied to how moslems, and all lawless men, behave in this world.

+++

The way of Cain, and the way of many men....

"Right is only in question between equals, and while the strong do what they can, the weak suffer what they must."
Thucydides (460-400 B.C.) Greek Historian

...coz men are wiser than God.

NOT!

LOL

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 12:21pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 9:02am:

we have automobiles now, not that there is a muslim car.
you lot are too repressed to make one.

King unveils first Saudi-made car
http://arabnews.com/saudiarabia/article66337.ece?comments=all

Launch of first car manufacturer in Saudi Arabia (Arabia Net)12/27/2010
http://asmainfo.com/SAUDI/En/news/shownews.asp?rrid=35791&typ=Sec&ln=En

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 12:25pm

Yadda wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 11:25am:

falah wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 8:26am:

The Talmud teaches, ......"

Baba Kamma 7b states the doctrine of all Talmudism

Talmud Encourages Cheating Of non-Jews

.....the supreme head of the Talmud academy at Nehardea, Babylonia,

Rabina is another saint of Talmudism

Ashi was director of the Talmud academy at Sura, Babylonia,

So which Jews do not follow the Talmud?

Afterall, wikipedia says:

The Talmud (Hebrew: תַּלְמוּד talmūd "instruction, learning", from a root lmd "teach, study") is a central text of mainstream Judaism. It takes the form of a record of rabbinic discussions pertaining to Jewish law, ethics, philosophy, customs and history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talmud

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Yadda on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 12:27pm

falah wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 12:21pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 9:02am:

we have automobiles now, not that there is a muslim car.
you lot are too repressed to make one.

falah,

That does not qualify as a moslem built car.

Saudi Arabia is NOT a moslem country, YOU said so yourself.

What is it anyway, a Korean knockoff ???

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 12:31pm

Soren wrote on Oct 11^th, 2011 at 11:47pm:

falah wrote on Oct 11^th, 2011 at 11:28pm:

Unlike you, I only fear God Almighty.

Oh yeah? Prove it.

The proof is in my monotheism, and in your polytheism.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Yadda on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 12:36pm

falah wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 12:25pm:

Yadda wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 11:25am:

falah wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 8:26am:

So which Jews do not follow the Talmud?

Afterall, wikipedia says:

The Talmud (Hebrew: תַּלְמוּד talmūd "instruction, learning", from a root lmd "teach, study") is a central text of mainstream Judaism.

It [Talmud] takes the form of a record of rabbinic discussions

pertaining to Jewish law, ethics, philosophy, customs and history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talmud

Even Wiki confirms that; :o

[the Talmud] takes the form of a record of rabbinic discussions

And the Talmud is not 'authorised', by the God of Israel.

Psalms 1:1
Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

The law of who ?????

Psalms 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

The testimony of who ?????

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Sprintcyclist on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 12:42pm

falah wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 12:21pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 9:02am:

we have automobiles now, not that there is a muslim car.
you lot are too repressed to make one.

jolly good, they are only a few hunderd years behind the world there.
hey, I thought some muzzie here said Saudi is NOT an islamic coountry ??

Quote:

......besides calling it the first (SAUDI) car is a sham!!! the engine is made by Mercedes and the design is by a European manufacturer??? You can say first car to be assembled in KSA. Also not an invention after everybody in the world and their mothers are manufacturing cars??? Get real people ............

.............what do u mean manufactured cars in iran????all iranian products are realy weak .any kind of cars wich iranian enginer wanted to assembled>>>fu$%^& up..you just need to come to iran and see the differencs between the same car in iran and out of iran like peguet 206.405. ((wich i don think if been used out of iran any more)).samand...did u know iranian government sold their products to iranian with extra price!!!!for example SAMAND wich been mad by foreig companys(like BMW) and iranian regim call its own made car localy! priced in in iran more that 13000 us$ but it been exported to syria with better fu$%^& quality just only for 4500 us $............

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/ghazal-1-the-1st-ever-saudi-built-car-go-for-production-21447.html

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 1:04pm

Yadda wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 11:37am:

Sound's to me, like that Romans 10:3 verse could exactly, without qualification, be applied to how moslems, and all lawless men, behave in this world.

You are a joker Yadda. It is obviously Jews and Christians who have abandoned the laws of God. Not one Christian or Jew today enforces the Bible's law on adultery.

These verses were revealed after the Arabian Jews came to Prophet Muhammed and asked him what they should do with their own adulterers. Prophet Muhammed asked them what their own scripture said regarding adultery. The Jews covered the punishemnt verses with their hands as they read. A Jewish convert to islam, Abdullah ibn Shalom, then pointed out that the Jews were hiding the verses regarding the punishment. Prophet Muhammed ordered that the Jews follow their own scripture, and carry out the punishment. The Jews were furious.

41. O Prophet (Muhammad )! Let not those who hurry to fall into disbelief grieve you, of such who say: "We believe" with their mouths but their hearts have no faith. And of the Jews are men who listen much and eagerly to lies - listen to others who have not come to you. They change the words from their places; they say, "If you are given this, take it, but if you are not given this, then beware!" And whomsoever Fod wants to put in a trial or tribulation, you can do nothing for him against God. Those are the ones whose hearts God does not want to purify (from disbelief and hypocrisy); for them there is a disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a great torment.

42. They like to listen to falsehood, to devour anything forbidden. So if they come to you, either judge between them, or turn away from them. If you turn away from them, they cannot hurt you in the least. And if you judge, judge with justice between them. Verily, God loves those who act justly.

43. But how do they come to you for decision while they have the Torah, in which is the (unambiguous) Decision of God; yet even after that, they turn away. For they are not (really) believers.

44. Verily, We ("we" is used in the royal royal sense by God) did send down the Torah, therein was guidance and light, by which the Prophets, who submitted themselves to God's Will, judged the Jews, as did the rabbis and the (early) priests [judged the Jews by the Torah after those Prophets], for to them was entrusted the upholding of God's Book, and they were witnesses thereto. Therefore fear not men but fear Me (O Jews) and sell not My verses for a miserable price, and those who judge by other than what God has revealed, those, they are the Disbelievers!"

45. And We ordained therein for them: "Life for life , eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if anyone remits the retaliation by way of charity, it shall be for him an expiation. And whosoever does not judge by that which God has revealed, such are the wrong-doing oppressors.

46. And in their footsteps, We sent Jesus, son of Mary, confirming the Torah that had come before him, and We gave him the Gospel, in which was guidance and light and confirmation of the Torah that had come before it, a guidance and an admonition for the pious.

47. Let the people of the Gospel judge by what God has revealed therein. And whosoever does not judge by what God has revealed, such are the rebellious people (i.e. disobedient to God).

48. And We have sent down to you the Book (this Qur'an) in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it and it is trustworthy in highness, and a witness over it (old Scriptures) . So judge between them by what God has revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging away from the truth that has come to you. To each among you, We have prescribed a law and a clear way. If God willed, He would have made you one nation, but that (He) may test you in what He has given you; so strive as in a race in good deeds. The return of you (all) is to God; then He will inform you about that in which you used to differ.

The Qur'an, al-Ma'idah,

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Soren on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 1:23pm

falah wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 12:31pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 11^th, 2011 at 11:47pm:

falah wrote on Oct 11^th, 2011 at 11:28pm:

Unlike you, I only fear God Almighty.

Oh yeah? Prove it.

The proof is in my monotheism, and in your polytheism.

That's a failah, falah.

I am not a polytheist - therefore you are not a monotheist. You are in trouble.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Yadda on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 1:51pm

falah wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 1:04pm:

LOL

falah,

And that, is the testimony of who ???

Honest moslems ???

Moslems, who are renowned for never, or rarely, telling lies ???

Afraid not.

Moslems are renowned, for their lying testimony.

So unless you have some other substantiation falah, i cannot accept their testimony.i

falah wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 1:04pm:

43. But how do they come to you for decision while they have the Torah, in which is the (unambiguous) Decision of God; yet even after that, they turn away. For they are not (really) believers.

In my experience, the accusations which moslems make against others, are invariably the precise crime which moslems themselves have committed.

Moslems blame others, making others scapegoats, for their moslem crimes.i

falah wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 1:04pm:

44. Verily, We ("we" is used in the royal royal sense by God) did send down the Torah, therein was guidance and light, by which the Prophets, who submitted themselves to God's Will, judged the Jews, as did the rabbis and the (early) priests [judged the Jews by the Torah after those Prophets], for to them was entrusted the upholding of God's Book, and they were witnesses thereto. Therefore fear not men but fear Me (O Jews) and sell not My verses for a miserable price,

and those who judge by other than what God has revealed, those, they are the Disbelievers!"

Moslems themselves, have rejected the testimony of OT scripture [the Torah], which scripture, their very own Koran claims, [the Torah] came from God.

And in that, moslems are a witness against themselves.i

falah wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 1:04pm:

47. Let the people of the Gospel judge by what God has revealed therein. And whosoever does not judge by what God has revealed, such are the rebellious people (i.e. disobedient to God).

48. And We have sent down to you the Book (this Qur'an) in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it and it is trustworthy in highness, and a witness over it (old Scriptures) . So judge between them by what God has revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging away from the truth that has come to you......

Again, moslems themselves, have rejected the testimony of OT scripture [the Torah], which scripture, their very own Koran claims, [the Torah] came from God.

And in that, moslems are a witness against themselves.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 2:41pm

Soren wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 1:23pm:

That's a failah, falah.

I am not a polytheist - therefore you are not a monotheist. You are in trouble.

You are a polytheist. You worship your own desires above God's law. Thereby you are a polytheist

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Baronvonrort on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 3:32pm

falah wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 1:04pm:

It is obviously Jews and Christians who have abandoned the laws of God. Not one Christian or Jew today enforces the Bible's law on adultery.

Maybe the jews and christians think it is wrong to stone consenting adults to death for adultery...
The christians stopped killing heretics hundreds of years ago as well.

Where in the Quran does it say people are to be stoned to death for adultery Falah i could not find any verse saying muslims should do this?

If the Quran has no verse authorising stoning for adultery then why do muslims say stoning is the prescribed punishment?

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Yadda on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 3:48pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 3:32pm:

falah wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 1:04pm:

It is obviously Jews and Christians who have abandoned the laws of God. Not one Christian or Jew today enforces the Bible's law on adultery.

Maybe the jews and christians think it is wrong to stone consenting adults to death for adultery...
The christians stopped killing heretics hundreds of years ago as well.

Where in the Quran does it say people are to be stoned to death for adultery Falah

i could not find any verse saying muslims should do this?

If the Quran has no verse authorising stoning for adultery then why do muslims say stoning is the prescribed punishment?

But if ISLAM does authorise stoning for adultery, then why didn't moslems stone Mohammed to death ?

ISLAM's own foundation texts attest, that Mohammed was an adulterer, and a fornicator.

e.g.
Mohammed 'married' his son's wife, and engaged in 'gratuitous' sex with many ['war booty'] captive women [women which Mohammed clearly raped/'forced'].

i.e.
To my knowledge, not one moslem has ever enforced the Bible's law on adultery,
but rather, moslems have 'religiously' justified THEIR OWN fornication.

And in that [being fornicators], moslems are a witness against themselves.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 5:41pm

Yadda you are a hypocrite. Your own Bible canctions slave owners having intercourse with their slavegirls.

You only follow your own desires. You follow the Bible when it suits you, then you disown it when it does not.

Did not Prophet Abraham have child through the slavewoman Hagar?

also the Bible says:

17 Then Abraham prayed to God, and God healed Abimelech, his wife and his slave girls so they could have children again

Genesis 20

7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.
8 If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her.

Exodus 21

Similarly, the Quran allows sexual relations with slavegirls:

"Prohibited to you (For marriage) are:- Your mothers, daughters, sisters; father's sisters, Mother's sisters; brother's daughters, sister's daughters; foster-mothers (Who gave you suck), foster-sisters; your wives' mothers; your step-daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom ye have gone in,- no prohibition if ye have not gone in;- (Those who have been) wives of your sons proceeding from your loins; and two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time, except for what is past; for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful;-

Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess (slaves): Thus hath God ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and God is All-knowing, All-wise. (The Quran, 4:23-24)"

However, the Quran forbids forcing slaves to have sex (something I didn't see forbidden in the Bible):

Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah: "Musaykah, a slave-girl of some Ansari, came (to prophet Muhammed) and said: My master forces me to commit fornication. Thereupon the following verse was revealed: "[highlight]But force not your maids to prostitution (when they desire chastity)." [/highlight](Quran, 24:33)" (Translation of Sunan Abu Dawud, (Kitab Al-Talaq), Book 12, Number 2304)"

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Soren on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 5:46pm

The Kingdom of Egypt in the period between 1922 and 1952 was flawed and ramshackle and corrupt, but it got closer to a functioning, pluralist society than anything in the 60 years since. For example, in 1923, Egypt’s first full year as a sovereign state, the country’s Minister of Finance was a man called Joseph Cattaui, a Member of Parliament and a Jew.

Try to imagine that now: a Jew serving as an Arab Muslim nation’s Finance Minister – or even getting elected as an obscure backbench MP. Sounds like something from a Give-peace-a-chance multifaith fantasy. But it actually happened – and then it stopped happening, and then it became inconceivable for it to happen ever again under any plausible scenario.

It’s not just that in Egypt a Jew can’t be Finance Minister but that a Jew can’t be. Because Egypt spent the second half of the 20th century getting worse, and is spending the new century getting worser. We now accept a Jew-free Egypt as a normal feature of life. No doubt we shall soon do the same with a Copt-free Egypt. But we could at least stop insulting those on the receiving end of the “Arab Spring” by pretending that it’s any kind of flowering of freedom.

steynonline.com.

Just so. No Jews are tolerated in the Muslim Middle East and now no Copts (the pre-Muslim inhabitants) of Egypt are tolerated.
Arab Spring - winter for everyone else.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 6:12pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 3:32pm:

Maybe the jews and christians think it is wrong to stone consenting adults to death for adultery...
The christians stopped killing heretics hundreds of years ago as well.

So in their arrogance, they think that they know better than God Almighty?

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 3:32pm:

Where in the Quran does it say people are to be stoned to death for adultery Falah i could not find any verse saying muslims should do this?

If the Quran has no verse authorising stoning for adultery then why do muslims say stoning is the prescribed punishment?

“...nor commit illegal sexual intercourse and whoever does this shall receive the punishment...

[al-Furqaan 25:69]

‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (a companion of Prophet Muhammed and the 3rd Roshidoon Caliph) said, when he was sitting on the pulpit of the Prophet of Allaah (Muhammed): “God sent Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) with the truth, and revealed to him the Book. One of the things that He revealed was the verse of stoning, which we have read and understood. The Prophet of God carried out the punishment of stoning and we did so after him. I fear that as time goes by, people will say, ‘We do not find any mention of stoning in the Book of God (Quran),’ so they will go astray by forsaking an obligation that was revealed by God. In the Book of God, stoning is the punishment deserved by any previously-married person, man or woman, who commits adultery, if proof is established, or pregnancy results, or he or she confesses.”

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2462; Muslim, 1691)

O ye who believe, obey God, and obey the Prophet, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to God and His Prophet, if ye do believe in God and the Last Day: that is best, and most suitable for final determination. (Quran 4: 59).

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Baronvonrort on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 6:41pm

falah wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 6:12pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 3:32pm:

Maybe the jews and christians think it is wrong to stone consenting adults to death for adultery...
The christians stopped killing heretics hundreds of years ago as well.

So in their arrogance, they think that they know better than God Almighty?

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 3:32pm:

You keep telling us how buggered the bible and torah are does it surprise you that people who follow those holy books dont take them literally?
I think it was Pope leo who told his followers not to take the bible literally with some things.
Have a look at how Galileo was persecuted for having a thought that contradicted the bible.

Are you sure you are quoting the right verse it says nothing about stoning in 25:69-
http://quran.com/25/69

4:59 says nothing about stoning to death did you make another mistake?
http://quran.com/4/59

I asked for the Quran verse on stoning, the Quran supposedly came from Allah whereas the hadith is man made like a series of chinese whispers.
Sahih Al Bukhari is NOT THE QURAN i should know i have a copy by Muhsin Khan so why are you quoting the hadith when i asked for the Quran verse?

The truth is there is nothing in the Quran directing muslims about stoning to death for adultery.

Did Aisha's pet goat eat the verse about stoning to death for adultery?
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Islamic_Silliness#Goat_ate_my_Quran

So much for the Quran never being corrupted,apart from the bits Aisha's goat ate.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 6:44pm

Soren wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 5:46pm:

Don't know if anybody told you this Soren, but Egypt became more secular in the time period you are talking about.

The secular regime did things which were not from Islam, such as preventing Christians from building new churches.

It was in fact Muslim organisation like the Muslim Brotherhood, who urged the secular government to allow Christians to build churches.

The Muslim Brotherhood also urged the secular government to protect Christian places of worship:

Muslim Brotherhood calls for protection of churches
http://www.thedailynewsegypt.com/religion/muslim-brotherhood-calls-for-protection-of-churches-al-azhar-condemns-baghdad-attack-dp1.html

Jews and Christians can hold positions in an Islamic government, as long as they do not have access to state secrets.

Muslim Brotherhood appoints Christian vice president
http://au.christiantoday.com/article/muslim-brotherhood-appoints-christian-vice-president/11090.htm

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 6:51pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 6:41pm:

I asked for the Quran verse on stoning, the Quran supposedly came from Allah whereas the hadith is man made like a series of chinese whispers.
Sahih Al Bukhari is NOT THE QURAN i should know i have a copy by Muhsin Khan so why are you quoting the hadith when i asked for the Quran verse?

I provided the verse which says to obey the prophet. The other verse I gave mentions that the adulterers should be punished. Bukhari recorded how the prophet said that they should be punished.

As for the hadith you obviously have no understanding of how scholars like Bukhari collected them, and classified them.

Hadeeth have different grades such as authentic, good, weak, etc.

The hadeeth I produced is considered authentic. That means that every person in the chain of narraotrs must be known as a trustworthy Muslim who has no memory problems. The biographies of each person in the chain of narrators must be known.

This makes books of hadeeth so much more reliable than the Bible. Bible scholars do not know who wrote the books of the Bible - although they do know that they were not written by the prophets themselves.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Baronvonrort on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 7:02pm

falah wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 6:51pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 6:41pm:

falah wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 6:12pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 3:32pm:

Maybe the jews and christians think it is wrong to stone consenting adults to death for adultery...
The christians stopped killing heretics hundreds of years ago as well.

So in their arrogance, they think that they know better than God Almighty?

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 3:32pm:

I provided the verse which says to obey the prophet. The other verse I gave mentions that the adluterers should be punished. Bukhari recorded how the prophet said that they should be punished.

Bukhari from your quote-
"God sent Mohammad........One of the things that he revealed was the verse of stoning,which we have read and understood"

Bukhari says this verse was revealed by Allah so why is it missing from the Quran?

If a verse is missing from the Quran does that mean the Quran has been corrupted?

Can you dismiss the hadith that a goat ate the verse on stoning as weak when no other reason is given why this verse is missing from the Quran?

Do you believe the hadith that satan urinates in the ear of those who miss morning prayer?

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 7:25pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 7:02pm:

It is not missing. I already provided it. The verse says that adulterers must be punished, and Prophet Muhammed explained how they should be punished. Therefore the verse refers to the stoning.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 7:02pm:

If a verse is missing from the Quran does that mean the Quran has been corrupted?

There are no missing verses.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 7:02pm:

Can you dismiss the hadith that a goat ate the verse on stoning as weak when no other reason is given why this verse is missing from the Quran?

If you had studied Islamic history, you would know that at the time of Prophet Muhammed's death, there were many people who had memorised the entire Quran by heart. There were also several written copies of it.

The Quran has been desigend to be a book which is easily memorised. There are millions of Muslims around the world who have memorised it by heart. This is how the Quran is protected from corruption, by the people memorising it.

"And We (God uses the royal "we") have made the Holy Quran easy to understand and remember, then is there any that will receive admonition."(The Quran, 54:17)

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 7:02pm:

Do you believe the hadith that satan urinates in the ear of those who miss morning prayer?

I have no reason disbelieve it. The type of devil mentioned here is the type from the jinn. The jinn are not made of chemicals like humans, but rather, are made from the smokeless flame. I see no reason to believe that their urine is in any way like the urine of humans or animals. Jinns are a totally different typ of creation.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 7:43pm

Rape in the Bible?

Judges 21: 10- 24 :

So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.

The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse."

Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 7:45pm

Raping Little Girls Commanded By Bible?

Judges 21: 10- 24 :

So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.

The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse."

Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.

So note, the men hide behind bushes like stalkers, and they wait for the women and once they see the women they rush the women and kidnap them and then basically marry them! This is clear rape, I wonder what missionary Sam Shamoun has to say about this, since the missionary has a lot to say on the subject of muta to which he is always refuted, what will say about men hiding like stalkers and then kidnapping women and marrying them? This is what you call ‘legalized rape’.

The fact is no Christian can explain those disgusting verses.

Numbers 31: 7-18 :

They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.

Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

So Moses and his army basically killed all the boys, including infants and just let the little young girls live. Who knows what they did with these little girls. So these passages basically allowed murder and left all the virgins to themselves whom they obviously slept with, many of these virgins were three year olds as well:

"....The Tannaïtic Midrash Sifre to Numbers in §157 comments on the above quoted commandment of MOSES to kill the Midianite women as well as the male children...."

"....According to the Tannaïte Rabbis, MOSES therefore had ordered the Israelites to kill all women older than three years and a day, because they were "suitable for having sexual relations." [138]...."

"Said Rabbi Joseph, "Come and take note: A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse....."

"A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse. "A girl three years old may be betrothed through an act of sexual intercourse," the words of R. Meir. And sages say, "Three years and one day old."....."

Children

Sometimes one has to read a passage twice to believe what has been written in the Sacred Books of Judaism: what has been decreed the way to a holy life by the "sages of blessed memory... whose words are the natural sounds of Judaism" [131]:

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 7:45pm

Rape of Little Children Commanded in the Bible continued

Said Rabbi Joseph, "Come and take note: A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse. And if a Levir has had intercourse with her, he has acquired her. And one can be liable on her account because of the law prohibiting intercourse with a married woman. And she imparts uncleanness to him who has intercourse with her when she is menstruating, to convey uncleanness to the lower as to the upper layer [of what lies beneath]. If she was married to a priest, she may eat food in the status of priestly rations. If one of those who are unfit for marriage with her had intercourse with her, he has rendered her unfit to marry into the priesthood. If any of those who are forbidden in the Torah to have intercourse with her had intercourse with her, he is put to death on her account, but she is free of responsibility [M.Nid. 5:4].
Sanhedrin 7/55B [132]

R. Nahman bar Isaac said. "They made the decree that a gentile child should be deemed unclean with the flux uncleanness [described at Lev.15], so that an Israelite child should not hang around with him and commit pederasty [as he does]."
For said R. Zira, "I had much anguish with R. Assi, and R. Assi with R. Yohanan, and R. Yohanan with R. Yannai, and R. Yannai with R. Nathan b. Amram, and R. Nathan b. Amram with Rabbi [on this matter]: 'From what age is a gentile child deemed unclean with the flux uncleanness [described at Lev.15]'? And he said to me, 'On the day on which he is born.' But when I came to R. Hiyya, he said to me, 'From the age of nine years and one day.' And when I came and laid the matter before Rabbi, he said to me, 'Discard my reply and adopt that of R. Hiyya, who declared, "From what age is a gentile child deemed unclean with the flux uncleanness [described at Lev.15]? From the age of nine years and one day."'
[37A] Since he is then suitable for having sexual relations, he also is deemed unclean with the flux uncleanness [of Lev.15]."
Said Rabina, "Therefore a gentile girl who is three years and one day old, since she is then suitable to have sexual relations, also imparts uncleanness of the flux variety."
That is self-evident!
Abodah Zarah 36B-37A [133]

The basis for these rulings is the following Mishnaic passage of Tractate Niddah (filth):

A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse. "A girl three years old may be betrothed through an act of sexual intercourse," the words of R. Meir. And sages say, "Three years and one day old."
And if a Levir has had intercourse with her, he has acquired her. And they are liable on her account because of the law prohibiting intercourse with a married woman. And she imparts uncleanness to him who has intercourse with her when she is menstruating to convey uncleanness to the lower as to the upper layer. If she was married to a priest, she eats heave offering. If one of those who are unfit for marriage has intercourse with her, he has rendered her unfit to marry into the priesthood. If one of all those who are forbidden in the Torah to have intercourse with her did so, they are put to death on her account. But she is free of responsibility.
If she is younger than that age, intercourse with her is like putting a finger in the eye.
(Mishnah Niddah 5:4) [134]

Thus, one "of the many important issues worked out in the Mishnah concerns proper conduct with women," [135] and the "entire society of Judaism – that is, the community formed by the Torah – found in the Talmud those modes of thought and inquiry, those media of order and value, that guided the formation of public affairs and private life as well." [136]

While it is reassuring to see there was at least some limit as to what the sages would declare holy and moral, this ruling had severe implications on the interpretation of other topics as well. The Tannaïtic Midrash Sifre to Numbers in §157 comments on the above quoted commandment of Moses to kill the Midianite women as well as the male children:

"Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that has known a man by sleeping with him.(Num 31:17).
[This] refers to her who has slept with a man as well as her who is suitable for intercourse, even when she has not slept with a man...
But all the young girls who have not known a man by sleeping with him, keep alive for yourselves. From here R. Shimon b. Yohai used to say: a Proselyte girl who became a proselyte in the age of less than three years and one day, is rendered fit to marry into the priesthood." [137]

According to the Tannaïte Rabbis, Moses therefore had ordered the Israelites to kill all women older than three years and a day, because they were "suitable for having sexual relations." [138]

Bibliography:

[131] Ibid., vol.XXI.A-D, Tractate Bava Mesia, Atlanta: Scholars Press 1990, p.ix-x.

[132] Ibid., vol.XXIII.B, Tractate Sanhedrin 1984, 150. See also vol.XIX.A, Tractate Qiddushin 10a-b, 1992, 33. "Menstruating" here of course refers to the ritual "flux uncleanness" described in Lev.15.

[133] Ibid., vol.XXV.A, Tractate Abodah Zarah, 1991, 168. Emphasis original.

[134] J. Neusner, The Talmud of Babylonia. A complete outline, Part IV. The Division of Holy Things. B. Number 37. 1995, 704.

[135] Neusner 1993, 41.

[136] Neusner 1995, 7.

[137] Kuhn 1959, §157, 652f. My translation. In general, proselytes are not allowed to marry into the priesthood.

[138] Ibid., §157, footnote 86, 653.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 7:49pm

Sometimes Bible Changes Mind & Says If Rapists Pay Money To Victims Father, Then They Get To Marry Their Victims!

Deuteronomy
Chapter 22:25-29

25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. 26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbor, and slayeth him, even so is this matter: 27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her. 28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Soren on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 7:55pm

falah wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 2:41pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 1:23pm:

That's a failah, falah.

I am not a polytheist - therefore you are not a monotheist. You are in trouble.

You are a polytheist. You worship your own desires above God's law. Thereby you are a polytheist

Er... sorry, I don't actually worship my desires. Therefore I am not a polytheist > therefore you are not a moniotheists > therefore you are in trouble for self-abuse.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Sprintcyclist on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 7:58pm

falah wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 7:49pm:

thats for jews.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 8:00pm

[quote author=soren2 link=1318207654/45#54 date=1318413337]

Er... sorry, I don't actually worship my desires.
[/quote]

Prove it.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Deborahmac09 on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 8:02pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 7:58pm:

falah wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 7:49pm:

thats for jews.

What was JC again?

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Soren on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 8:03pm

falah wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 6:44pm:

Muslim Brotherhood appoints Christian vice president
http://au.christiantoday.com/article/muslim-brotherhood-appoints-christian-vice-president/11090.htm

As that very article makes it clear, galah:

"Coptic human rights activist Wagih Yacoub said in a report by International Christian Concern: “There is no doubt that the Muslim Brotherhood and the Salafis are allied. The Brotherhood plays politics and the Salafis are causing chaos so they can empty Egypt of Christians and make it an Islamic state."

The thing is, Muslims like you are just too stupid. It's nothing personal, it's just that your belief makes you, actively makes you, stupid. Your choice is to be a salafi Islamist Muslim and be stupid - or be a normal person with some critical faculties and the ability to at least ask or hear questions about a 1400 year old compilation (Koran).

You actively choose stupid. You are not applying traditional outlook, you are applying practiced, rigorous stupidity.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 9:18pm

Soren, personal insults are the trick of the person who knows that his own argument lacks substance.

Become Personal, Insulting, Rude

A last trick is to become personal, insulting, rude, as soon as you perceive that your opponent has the upper hand, and that you are going to come off worst. It consists in passing from the subject of dispute, as from a lost game, to the disputant himself, and in some way attacking his person. It may be called the argumentum ad personam, to distinguish it from the argumentum ad hominem, which passes from the objective discussion of the subject pure and simple to the statements or admissions which your opponent has made in regard to it. But in becoming personal you leave the subject altogether, and turn your attack to his person, by remarks of an offensive and spiteful character. It is an appeal from the virtues of the intellect to the virtues of the body, or to mere animalism. This is a very popular trick, because every one is able to carry it into effect; and so it is of frequent application. Now the question is, What counter-trick avails for the other party? for if he has recourse to the same rule, there will be blows, or a duel, or an action for slander.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Annie Anthrax on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 9:22pm

Don't take it personally, Falah. He does it all the time. Rude is Soren's default position.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Soren on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 9:29pm

falah wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 9:18pm:

The Art of Being Right

Become Personal, Insulting, Rude

A last trick is to become personal, insulting, rude, as soon as you perceive that your opponent has the upper hand, and that you are going to come off worst. It consists in passing from the subject of dispute, as from a lost game, to the disputant himself, and in some way attacking his person. It may be called the argumentum ad personam, to distinguish it from the argumentum ad hominem, which passes from the objective discussion of the subject pure and simple to the statements or admissions which your opponent has made in regard to it. But in becoming personal you leave the subject altogether, and turn your attack to his person, by remarks of an offensive and spiteful character. It is an appeal from the virtues of the intellect to the virtues of the body, or to mere animalism. This is a very popular trick, because every one is able to carry it into effect; and so it is of frequent application. Now the question is, What counter-trick avails for the other party? for if he has recourse to the same rule, there will be blows, or a duel, or an action for slander.

I am not insulting you personally, I am insulting your ideology.

I am identifying the root cause of your stupidity and the stupidity of your type - Islamism. You are stupid - whoever you may or may not be - because you submit to Mohammed, a meshuggeh, in a very unwholesome, mindless and completely anachronistic way.

This submission is making you utter moronic things.
Don't get miffed at me for noticing it.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Soren on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 9:35pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 9:22pm:

Don't take it personally, Falah. He does it all the time. Rude is Soren's default position.

Yeah, galah, count yourself lucky. I could be a buxom muslimah, strip down to a black corset and give your stupid arse 100 lashes with a horse whip. Stricktly Islamically, of course.
Then you would really know what a naughty boy you are. Now I am appealing only to your better judgement. I know it's unIslamic but that's all I have to offer you, sanity.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Annie Anthrax on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 9:40pm

What'd I tell ya?

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Soren on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 9:46pm

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Annie Anthrax on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 9:50pm

All that research and you still didn't figure out the avatar's not Bettie?

You're a freakin' genius.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Soren on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 9:58pm

Yeah, right, It's Mary Whitehouse.
Sorry.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 10:27pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 9:22pm:

Don't take it personally, Falah. He does it all the time. Rude is Soren's default position.

I don't take myself that seriously.

...and I take comfort from the thought that whatever Soren says in this life, he/she will be held accountable for it on the Day of Judgement - there is no escape from that day.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Deborahmac09 on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 10:35pm

falah wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 10:27pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 9:22pm:

Don't take it personally, Falah. He does it all the time. Rude is Soren's default position.

Nice, taking comfort in the suffering of others.
That is what sucks about religion, they all celebrate the suffering of those who do not agree with their particular beliefs.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 10:44pm

Deborahmac09 wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 10:35pm:

falah wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 10:27pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 9:22pm:

Don't take it personally, Falah. He does it all the time. Rude is Soren's default position.

Nice, taking comfort in the suffering of others.
That is what sucks about religion, they all celebrate the suffering of those who do not agree with their particular beliefs.

I do not celebrate the suffering of all who do not share my point of view. You could disagree with me on a million things and I might still wish good for you, but there are some things which put a person beyond the pale. Soren has placed himself in a special category.

Only the worst of people insult prophets. Prophets are people beloved by God Almighty. To insult a prophet is to invite God's wrath.

It was narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may God be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of God be upon him) said: “Whoever tells lies about me, let him take his place in Hell.”
(recorded by al-Bukhaari, 110 and Muslim, 3).

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 13^th, 2011 at 9:27am

Christians Kidnap Muslim Women

Shehata disappeared from her home for several days in July after having reportedly converted to Islam—some say in an effort to get a divorce, which is not permitted by the Coptic Church. At first, the Christians protested—accusing Muslims of kidnapping a Christian and forcing her to convert. When she re-emerged, it was the Muslims' turn. Many now believe Shehata was forcibly returned to her home and the Coptic Church by state authorities, only to become sequestered against her will within the confines of a monastery...

...Wafaa Constantine, who was also the wife of a priest, reportedly converted to Islam in 2004, and wound up in a monastery as well. Neither woman has appeared in public since their returns to the church, and the Salafi protests of late have invoked both names. "Today we hold a stand off to free our sister hostages from the church," explained one of the protesters, Atef Wael. "Whenever a sister converts to Islam, they keep her in the church and they torture her...

"...two official in the Coptic church, Bishop Bishoy, remarked that "Muslims are only guests" in Egypt..."

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2029977,00.html

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 13^th, 2011 at 9:31am

The secular anti-Islam Mubarak dictatorship received bribes of US$1billion per year to do the bidding of Christian US and Jewish Israel, is believed to have been behind church bombings previously blamed on Islamists:

Western-backed Secular Dictatorship Behind Church bombings?

Al Arabiya television reported allegations that the Egyptian government, not content with fighting actual Islamists, may have invented some of its own enemies. An official government probe is looking into reports that the New Year's Eve church bombing in Alexandria, initially blamed on Al-Qaeda, might actually have been perpetrated by the Egyptian government, with the intention of gaining sympathy and support from the West.

http://reason.com/blog/2011/02/14/was-the-mubarak-complicit-in-e

http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/02/07/136723.html

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Yadda on Oct 13^th, 2011 at 9:53am

falah wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 5:41pm:

Yadda you are a hypocrite. Your own Bible sanctions slave owners having intercourse with their slavegirls.

You only follow your own desires. You follow the Bible when it suits you, then you disown it when it does not.

Did not Prophet Abraham have child through the slavewoman Hagar?

also the Bible says:

17 Then Abraham prayed to God, and God healed Abimelech, his wife and his slave girls so they could have children again

Genesis 20

7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.
8 If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her.

Exodus 21

falah,

The societal customs were different then.

And, you misrepresent those societal customs.

Exodus 21:7
And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
8 If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.

A man could sell his daughter into the family of another man, to be a bond-servant, as a prospective wife, to that man [or his son].

But the daughter was betrothed, she was not a sex slave [as you falsely portray], she was not even a slave.

She was a temporary maidservant to his family, a bond-servant to his family.

In those times, any man [if he had come upon hard times, or if he was destitute] could 'sell' himself, to be a bond-servant to another, for a [an agreed] set term of years.

Dictionary;
betroth = = formally engaged to be married.

This was an honourable 'arrangement' between two families, prior to a formal marriage, of the man and woman.

She [the daughter] was never a sex slave, to her betrothed [prospective] husband.

This daughter would remain 'chaste' [sexually 'off limits'], until she was formally married.

That daughter was not used as a sex slave, in the way moslems justify, 'using' captive women as sex slaves TODAY.....

Pakistan: 12 year-old Christian gang raped for eight months, forcibly converted to Islam, "married" to her Muslim attacker
Will the Islamophobia never end? "Pakistan: A 12 year-old Christian is gang raped for eight months, forcibly converted and then 'married' to her Muslim attacker,"
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/10/pakistan-12-year-old-christian-gang-raped-for-eight-months-forcibly-converted-to-islam-married-to-he.html

Google;
christian girl raped forced conversion to islam

"News stories, you will NOT see reported on ABC TV"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1315488627/100#100

+++

ISLAM is a corrupt and corrupting philosophy.

Mohammed wrote ISLAMIC scripture himself, and used it as a means, to 'sanctify' his own sexual lusts.

i.e.
"Allah allows this to me, Mohammed."

And today, moslems imitate Mohammed, and have 'religiously' justified THEIR OWN fornication, and rape of women.

And in that [being fornicators, and rapists], moslems are a witness against themselves.

Mohammed claimed that his carnal lust, was sanctioned [made 'holy'] by Allah himself.

"O Prophet! Why holdest thou to be forbidden that which Allah has made lawful to thee? Thou seekest to please thy consorts. But Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
Koran 66.1

All moslems today, also claim that they can rape any captive woman.

And moslems claim that such extramarital sex [rape of captive non-moslem women] is 'lawful' to them.

Moslems claim that ISLAM conveniently sanctifies their own adultery and fornication - SO ITS OK.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Sprintcyclist on Oct 13^th, 2011 at 9:55am

another conspiracy flogoff

yawn

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 13^th, 2011 at 10:20am

Yadda why do you fail to address the rape and sex-slavery sanctioned in the Bible?

Judges 21: 10- 24 :

They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home...So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance.

So the men hide behind bushes like stalkers, and they wait for the women and once they see the women they rush the women and kidnap them and then rape them! Is the Bible a guide to rape?

Numbers 31: 17-18 :

... Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

Bible says kill all the women and little boys, but rape the little girls! Bible encourages rape of little girls?

Deuteronomy 20: 10-14:

As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor (they can only live if they become your slave!). But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

Bible says if they don't agree to be your slaves then kill all the men and make the woman your slaves to "enjoy the spoils of"

Deuteronomy
Chapter 22:25-29

25 ...if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. 26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbor, and slayeth him, even so is this matter: 27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her. 28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days

Bible say raping unmarried women is OK...as long as you pay off the father afterwards!

Please address the rape and sex-slavery in your corrupted Bible yadda.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Belgarion on Oct 13^th, 2011 at 10:34am

First of all falah, no sane person believes any of these ancient writings are the literal truth and second, the part you are quoting is from the old testament and has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 13^th, 2011 at 10:59am

Belgarion wrote on Oct 13^th, 2011 at 10:34am:

First of all falah, no sane person believes any of these ancient writings are the literal truth

If it is not the literal truth, then why would any sane person want to be a Christian or a jew?

Belgarion wrote on Oct 13^th, 2011 at 10:34am:

and second, the part you are quoting is from the old testament and has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus.

Jesus believed in the Torah and laws given to previous prophets:

Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the way of the prophets. I have not come to abrogate them, but I have come to fulfill them.

Truly I say to you, Till heaven and earth come to an end, not the smallest letter or part of a letter will in any way be taken from the law, till all things are done.

Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called the "lowest" by the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:17-19

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Yadda on Oct 13^th, 2011 at 11:05am

falah wrote on Oct 13^th, 2011 at 10:20am:

Yadda why do you fail to address the rape and sex-slavery sanctioned in the Bible?

Judges 21: 10- 24 :

They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home...So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance.

So the men hide behind bushes like stalkers, and they wait for the women and once they see the women they rush the women and kidnap them and then rape them! Is the Bible a guide to rape?

Numbers 31: 17-18 :

... Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

Bible says kill all the women and little boys, but rape the little girls! Bible encourages rape of little girls?

Deuteronomy 20: 10-14:

As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor (they can only live if they become your slave!). But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

Bible says if they don't agree to be your slaves then kill all the men and make the woman your slaves to "enjoy the spoils of"

Deuteronomy
Chapter 22:25-29

25 ...if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. 26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbor, and slayeth him: 27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her. 28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days

Bible say raping unmarried women is OK...as long as you pay off the father afterwards!

Please address the rape and sex-slavery in your corrupted Bible yadda.

falah,

As per usual, you believe that the Bible condones, what ISLAM itself 'legitimises'.

Wrong.

e.g.
Compare what is 'lawful' regards captive women within ISLAM, with what was lawful within Moses law, regards captive women....

Deuteronomy 21:10
When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive,
11 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;
12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;
13 And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.
14 And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.

"....then thou shalt let her go whither she will;....thou shalt not make merchandise of her,"

n.b.
The Hebrew man, if he no longer has a desire for his beautiful wife [a captive of war],
....he must release her.

Give her her freedom.

Because in Biblical times, the concept of a free woman was not unusual.

There is no parallel to this provision, within ISLAMIC law.

Why not ???

Because, within a devout moslem community the concept of a 'free' woman is absurd.

Within a devout moslem community a woman, all women, are the property of some man, ALWAYS.

falah,

We should remember too, that those OT Bible texts speak of a time 3,400 years ago, when keeping societal slaves and captives was common, and lawful.

We live in a different world today.

Except moslems.

Moslems imagine that they are still living in Arabia, in 650 AD - where 'sex slavery' was always 'lawful' .

e.g.
"Egyptian imam: "When I want a sex slave, I just go to the market and choose the woman I like and purchase her" "
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/06/egyptian-imam-when-i-want-a-sex-slave-i-just-go-to-the-market-and-choose-the-woman-i-like-and-purcha.html

"Kuwait: "Female political activist" calls for legalizing sex slavery to protect men from "adultery or corruption" "
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/06/kuwait-female-political-activist-calls-for-legalizing-sex-slavery-to-protect-men-from-adultery-or-co.html

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Belgarion on Oct 13^th, 2011 at 2:54pm

falah wrote on Oct 13^th, 2011 at 10:59am:

Belgarion wrote on Oct 13^th, 2011 at 10:34am:

First of all falah, no sane person believes any of these ancient writings are the literal truth

If it is not the literal truth, then why would any sane person want to be a Christian or a jew?

Belgarion wrote on Oct 13^th, 2011 at 10:34am:

and second, the part you are quoting is from the old testament and has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus.

No sane person wants to be a muslim either. Organised religion is a device that has been used throughout history to control the masses.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Baronvonrort on Oct 13^th, 2011 at 5:54pm

falah wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 7:25pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 7:02pm:

If a verse is missing from the Quran does that mean the Quran has been corrupted?

There are no missing verses.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 12^th, 2011 at 7:02pm:

Can you dismiss the hadith that a goat ate the verse on stoning as weak when no other reason is given why this verse is missing from the Quran?

Do you believe the hadith that satan urinates in the ear of those who miss morning prayer?

You did not provide the verse for stoning in the Quran, you provided 2 verses that made no mention of stoning.

The hadith you cited claimed the verse had been revealed and read, why is it missing from the Quran if Bukhari said it had been revealed?
You have not provided this missing verse in the quran falah

Which Caliph was in charge when the Quran was finally complied Falah how many years after Mohammads death did it take?

Those who have memorised the Quran...the word would be "hafiz" .

Allah mentions boiling water 17 times for the purpose of torture in the Quran and not even once does it say boiling water makes it safe to drink,Mohammad was a fraud what makes you think he was not a pretender?

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 13^th, 2011 at 11:21pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 13^th, 2011 at 5:54pm:

Which Caliph was in charge when the Quran was finally complied Falah how many years after Mohammads death did it take?

The Quran was preserved in the hearts of the companions of Prophet Muhammed, who had memorized it, and it was also written on the trunks of trees and on thin white stones. After the prophet passed away, Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq, (the companion of the Prophet and 1st of the Roshidoon Caliphs.) became concerned that too many of those who had memorised the Quran had been martyred in the wars that engulfed the Islamic state during his Caliphate. Abu Bakr conducted a meeting with remaining senior companions of Prophet Muhammed concerning the idea of compiling the entire Quran in one book so that it would be preserved and would not be lost, and this task was entrusted to the great hafiz Zayd ibn Thaabit and others who had written down the Revelation during the life of Prophet Muhammed on the separate fragments.

Al-Bukhaari recorded in his book Saheeh that Zayd ibn Thaabit said:

“Abu Bakr As-Siddeeq sent for me when the people of Yamamah had been killed (i.e., a number of the Prophet's Companions who fought against Musaylimah). (I went to him) and found Umar bin al-Khattaab sitting with him. Abu Bakr said (to me):

"Umar has come to me and said: “Casualties were heavy among the memorisers of the Quran (i.e. those who knew the Qur’aan by heart) at the Battle of Yamaamah, and I am afraid that more heavy casualties may take place among the memoriser of the Quran on other battlefields, whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost. Therefore I suggest that you [Abu Bakr] should issue orders that the Quran be collected.” I said to Umar, “How can you do something that the Prophet of God (peace and blessings of God be upon him) did not do?" Umar said, “By God, this is something good.” ‘Umar kept on urging me (to accept his proposal) until God opened my heart to it and I began to realize the good in the idea which Umar had realized.’ "

Then Abu Bakr said (to me):

"You are a wise young man and we have a great deal of confidence in you. You used to write down the Revelation for the Prophet of God (peace and blessings of God be upon him). So you should seek out the Quran [i.e., the fragments on which Zayd had already written it during the lifetime of Prophet Muhammed] and collect it (in one book).’ By God, if they had ordered me to move one of the mountains, it would not have been harder for me than this command to collect the Quran.

I said (to Abu Bakr): "How can you do something which the Messenger of God (peace and blessings of God be upon him) did not do?’ Abu Bakr said, ‘By God, it is a good thing.’ Abu Bakr kept on urging me (to accept his proposal) until God opened my heart to it as He had opened the hearts of Abu Bakr and ‘Umar. So I started to look for the Quran and collected it (the fragments on which Zayd had already written it) from palm-stalks, thin white stones and (verified it with) the hearts of men (i.e., from men who knew it by heart), until I found the last verse of Surat al-Tawbah with Abu Khuzaymah al-Ansaari (who had also been a companion of Prophet Muhammed), and I did not find it with anybody other than him. The verse is :

‘Verily, there has come unto you a Prophet from amongst yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty…’

[al-Tawbah 9:128 – interpretation of the meaning]

… until the end of Soorat al-Tawbah.

This was done very soon after Prophet Muhammed passed away - and there were still many people alive who had memorised the Quran during his lifetime who could verify that the compiled Quran was true to the original.

About twenty years later, the 3rd Caliph, Uthman, who had also been a companion of Prophet Muhammed, had a Quran made that had a particular ordering of the chapters - previously there was no specified chronological order for the chapters.

About 50 years after Prophet Muhammed had passed away, the Ummayad Caliph, Abdulmalik ibn Marwan, commanded that the dots and lines be added to the Quran to help non-Arabs read the Quran. Arabs did not need the dots and lines, but as more non-Arabs were converting to Islam, it was deemed necessary to make it easier for non-Arabs to read. Even today, most non-Quranic texts do not feature the vowel lines above and below Arabic letters because Arabs can easily read without them.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Soren on Oct 14^th, 2011 at 11:25am

Er... what prophesies did the 'prophet' actually prophesy? The only one I could find was along the lines of "You guys gimme a fifth or your booty or I'll be really cross, and so will Allah, bless 'im." (repeated ad nauseum with little variation)

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur'an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Muhammad_the_Plunderer

ANy others?

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 14^th, 2011 at 11:48am

Prophesies Of Prophet Muhammed

(Not all of these have come from authenticated hadeeth, but the fact they have come true gives the lower-graded hadith some weight I would think)

*Earthqakes would increase
*Sea-level would rise
*Animals would become extinct
*The Byzantines would defeat the Persians in a few years following the revealation of the Quran - which happened (this prophesy is in the Quran)
*Muslims would conquer Jerusalem
*Muslims would conquer the Byzantine Empire
*Muslims would fight against the Turkish people - happened centuries ago
*Music and alcohol consumption would become widespread
*Muslims would have a Roshidoon (rightly-guided) Caliphate, followed by the monarchies, followed by miltary dictatorship, followed by the return of the Roshidoon caliphat
*Near the End of Days, the rulers wouyld be the most corrupt of people
*Near the End of Days there would be much senseless killing
*the (formerly barefooted bedouin) Arabs will compete against each other to build the tallest building - as happening in Dubai and Riyadh
*Widespread use of usury (interest-based loans) in the world
*Fornication would become considered acceptable
*Non-Muslim economic Sanctions against iraq
*Non-Muslim economic Sanctions against Syria
*World Would fight against Muslims with 180 flags - Afghanistan?

There are many more that I do not have time to type now.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Soren on Oct 14^th, 2011 at 12:16pm

falah wrote on Oct 14^th, 2011 at 11:48am:

Prophesies Of Prophet Muhammed

(Not all of these have come from authenticated hadeeth, but the fact they have come true gives the lower-graded hadith some weight I would think)

*Earthqakes would increase
*Sea-level would rise
*Animals would become extinct
*The Byzantines would defeat the Persians in a few years following the revealation of the Quran - which happened (this prophesy is in the Quran)
*Muslims would conquer Jerusalem
*Muslims would conquer the Byzantine Empire
*Muslims would fight against the Turkish people - happened centuries ago
*Music and alcohol consumption would become widespread
Muslims would have a Roshidoon (rightly-guided) Caliphate, followed by the monarchies, followed by miltary dictatorship, followed by the return of the Roshidoon caliphat
*Near the End of Days, the rulers wouyld be the most corrupt of people
*Near the End of Days there would be much senseless killing
*the (formerly barefooted bedouin) Arabs will compete agaisnt each other to build the tallest building - as happening in Dubai and Riyadh
*Widespread use of usury (interest-based loans) in the world
*Fornication would become considered acceptable
*Non-Muslim economic Sanctions against iraq
*Non-Muslim economic Sanctions against Syria
*World Would fight against Muslims with 180 flags - Afghanistan?

There are many more i do not have time to type now.

SOunds like Nostradamus. He was certainly a living testimony to "Fornication would become considered acceptable".

"Near the End of Days, the rulers wouyld be the most corrupt of people" - only then? what do you call it now and for the last couple of thousand years??
"Near the End of Days there would be much senseless killing " as above. What were all the 'senseless killings" about all thoese millenia??

Mohammed: "and a big fiery ball will appear in the sky in the morrow and it will be up there all day but people will ignore it and just go on about their lives. But then it will disappear! Just like that! Nobody will see it for quite a few hours. Allah is merciful and compassionate and ...er... can I have another wife. Please?
Allah: Sure, have two.
Mohammed: Ta. Alllah is compassionate.

Tomorrow, Mohammed asks for some money.

Good night, children.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Jibreel on Oct 15^th, 2011 at 1:21am

falah wrote on Oct 13^th, 2011 at 9:27am:

Wrong

Quote:

Egyptian Court Rejects Claims That Christian Woman Converted to Islam

An Egyptian court has dismissed a lawsuit filed by Muslims requesting the disclosure of the wife of a Coptic priest, whom the Muslims allege converted to Islam and was being held against her will by Christians.

The demand to know the whereabouts of Camilia Shehata was rejected by the court because the lawyers failed to provide sufficient proof to support their accusations that the Coptic Church was holding her against her will.

According to the Assyrian International News Agency (AINA) the attorney for Shehata, Dr. Naguib Gabriel said, “The only thing the Muslim lawyers delivered as proof for their claims were snippets of newspapers from the Internet.”

The case has been before the court for four months, over which time Gabriel advocated that Shehata was never detained by the Coptic Church, and that she never even converted to Islam as was being alleged.

A power of attorney was signed by Shehata for Gabriel to represent her in court, AINA has reported.

“This was issued by the public notary, by a Muslim employee and in which she wrote "Christian" beside her religious affiliation, while she could have easily written Muslim instead," said Gabriel.

"If she was really detained by the Church, she could have asked for help from the employee when she went to the notary," he added.

The court was not impressed by the evidence shown by the Islamic lawyers, and a request by them for Shehata to appear personally in court was flatly refused by the judges.

According to AINA Gabriel said following the decision: “Today's court ruling closes the curtain on one of the most famous and difficult cases in Egypt.

"Muslims will not be allowed to demonstrate regarding this matter anymore, which they used as a pretext to create sectarian strife between Muslims and Christians."

Muslims have accused the Coptic Church of abducting Shehata since July 2010 when following a row with her husband, Tedaos Samaan, a priest at St George’s Church , she went to stay with relatives.

The accusations came about because Shehata did not tell anyone of her whereabouts, which she now admits was her “biggest mistake,” according to an interview with Al-Hayat Christian TV Channel.

In the initial confusion Shehata’s husband believed she had been abducted by Muslims, and he gathered 3,000 Coptic Christians to protest against her disappearance in Cairo.

She was tracked down by state security forces days later, and she later reconciled with her husband. However, more than 20 Islamic demonstrations calling for the return of their “sister in Islam” meant she and her family have had to remain in hiding ever since, report AINA.

christianpost(.)com/news/egyptian-court-rejects-claims-that-christian-woman-converted-to-islam-51756/

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Jibreel on Oct 15^th, 2011 at 1:29am

falah wrote on Oct 11^th, 2011 at 12:13pm:

Christian Trouble Makers Killed 3 members of Egypt's army

Also wrong

Quote:

Egypt state television admits to making up news over soldiers’ deaths

Egypt’s state television announced on Monday that there are no deaths among the military forces after previously reporting there were during the bloody Sunday clashes between the military and Coptic protesters, saying that it was the fault of the news presenter.

State TV, also known as Maspero, is under fire from rights activists for falsely reporting that the Coptic protesters attacked the military forces with weapons, which resulted in the death of at least three soldiers and the called on the Egyptian people to take to the street to help protect the armed forces.

The news, when reported on Sunday evening, agitated many Muslims, who took up arms and went to the streets of downtown, clashing with protesters, both Muslims and Coptic Christians, injuring dozens in the worst sectarian violence since the fall of ousted President Hosni Muabrak’s regime.

State TV also reported that the protesters were armed and initiated the violence that killed the soldiers, which escalated the bloodshed late on Sunday.

The Copts who were marching and demanding justice for the burning of a house of worship in southern Egypt last week, were shot at by the military upon their arrival at the state TV building by the military.

Videos posted online show armored vehicles running over people, killing and injuring scores of them. Eyewitnesses told Bikyamasr.com at the protest that Copts were “not armed” and the army was “not provoked to attack.”

International media outlets largely reported on Sunday night Cairo what state television was reporting.

bikyamasr(.)com/45280/egypt-state-television-admits-to-making-up-news-over-soldiers-deaths/

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Sprintcyclist on Oct 15^th, 2011 at 3:35am

ooohhh, so another islamic lie.
christians had repaired their church, so muslims attacked them, then killed many of them.

is it any clearer than that folks ?

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 15^th, 2011 at 12:18pm

Quote:

A Christian media outlet quoting another Christian media outlet!

A secular court, supported by a secular government that needs the support of Christians to remain in powerwould not allow the woman to be brought before the court to say whether or not she had been kidnapped.

Why? What have the secularists and Christians got to hide. Why did they fight against having this woman speak for herself in public?

Why did Christians start the whole affair by rioting and claiming that muslims had "kidnapped" her:

Quote:

The problem started last summer, when hundreds of Copts demonstrated after Shehata disappeared, claiming that she had been kidnapped by Muslims. The wife of a priest, Shehata was the object of particular concern on the part of the Coptic community, concern that evaporated five days later when it turned out that she had merely been staying with a relative. Nevertheless, a few days later the Salafis released another story claiming that Shehata had in fact converted to Islam, but that the security forces had returned her to the church.
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2011/1047/eg60.htm

Chistian website says that Pope wants to hide the convert:

Quote:

Previously Pope Shenouda...[said]no one had the right to know where she is.
http://www.aina.org/news/20100917220629.htm

The Christian website has admitted that there are actually witnesses to the Pope's daught-in-law becoming Muslim

Quote:

Influential Salafi sheikh Abu Yehya, from Samalut, who is known for his paid activities in procuring Christians for conversion to Islam, said that Camilia fled her marital home and went to him to convert to Islam. He claimed that Camilia had proclaimed the shahada, or declaration of Muslim faith, 18 months earlier and has secretly studied the Koran. Allegedly he traveled with her to Cairo and went to Al-Azhar to register her conversion officially, however, they were delayed there until the police arrived and arrested them both.

The website showed Camilia clad in a veil...
http://www.aina.org/news/20100917220629.htm

Christian women who convert to Islam are never seen again in public if the Church gets hold of them. The Copts have special monasteries to lock up women who convert to Islam.

Your Christian website mentions that the Christian families of these converts cause problems for converts:

Quote:

Parents and lawyers of Christian teens Nancy Fathy and her cousin Christine Fathy, who allegedly converted to Islam, were shocked to learn the two girls have been taken by security officers from the care home where they were entrusted by the attorney general and held in a undisclosed place without knowledge or consent of the attorney general...

Today, lawyers with the parents went to south Cairo general prosecutor and were told by him the teens are in a safe place with public security, as they were afraid the parents may go to the orphanage and create problems there, according to Mourad. "Still we were not told where they are staying."

The Christian minors said they converted to Islam of their own free will, and refused to return to their families, and even applied for protection from them. The prosecution decided to put them in a state care home and provide protection for them, until the completion of the investigation.
http://www.aina.org/news/20110704151452.htm

Christian website admits that stories bout the girls being forced to convert were false, and admits that the converts feared their Christian families and sought protection from them:

Quote:

Nearly two weeks after they disappeared, Nancy and Christine were found in Cairo wearing Burkas. They were incidentally stopped in the street by a police officer when he noticed that one of them had a cross tattooed on her wrist, as many Copts have. The girls told the policeman they converted to Islam and did not marry any Muslim sheikh as the newspapers said, but fearing the wrath of their parents, they sought shelter at the home of a Muslim man. He issued a report of the incident and let them go.

According to the investigators, the Christian minors said they converted to Islam of their own free will, and refused to return to their families, and even applied for protection from them. The prosecution decided to put them in a state care home and provide protection for them, until the completion of the investigation.

http://www.aina.org/news/20110626170235.htm

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Soren on Oct 15^th, 2011 at 12:37pm

falah wrote on Oct 15^th, 2011 at 12:18pm:

Christian women who convert to Islam are never seen again in publi if the Church gets hold of them. The Copts have special monasteries to lock up women who convert to Islam.

;D

You are insane.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Sprintcyclist on Oct 16^th, 2011 at 10:17pm

Soren wrote on Oct 15^th, 2011 at 12:37pm:

falah wrote on Oct 15^th, 2011 at 12:18pm:

Christian women who convert to Islam are never seen again in publi if the Church gets hold of them. The Copts have special monasteries to lock up women who convert to Islam.

;D

You are insane.

Any fanatic of a cult is insane

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 17^th, 2011 at 7:15am

Is that the best argument you can come up with? Disappointing.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Baronvonrort on Oct 17^th, 2011 at 2:15pm

falah wrote on Oct 13^th, 2011 at 11:21pm:

The word "stoning" is not mentioned in the verse, but is referred to with the word "punishment". Part of the job of a prophet is to explain the scriptures to the people. Prophet Muhammed did this by ordering the stoning of the married adulterers. I already gave you the verse that order Muslims to obey the prophet. So stoning does not need to be directly mentioned in the Quran.

The Quran was preserved in the hearts of the companions of Prophet Muhammed, who had memorized it, and it was also written on the trunks of trees and on thin white stones. After the prophet passed away, Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq, (the companion of the Prophet and 1st of the Roshidoon Caliphs.) became concerned that too many of those who had memorised the Quran had been martyred in the wars that engulfed the Islamic state during his Caliphate. Abu Bakr conducted a meeting with remaining senior companions of Prophet Muhammed concerning the idea of compiling the entire Quran in one book so that it would be preserved and would not be lost,

"Umar has come to me and said: “Casualties were heavy among the memorisers of the Quran (i.e. those who knew the Qur’aan by heart) at the Battle of Yamaamah, and I am afraid that more heavy casualties may take place among the memoriser of the Quran on other battlefields, whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost. Therefore I suggest that you [Abu Bakr] should issue orders that the Quran be collected.” I said to Umar, “How can you do something that the Prophet of God (peace and blessings of God be upon him) did not do?" Umar said, “By God, this is something good.” ‘Umar kept on urging me (to accept his proposal) until God opened my heart to it and I began to realize the good in the idea which Umar had realized.’ "

"You are a wise young man and we have a great deal of confidence in you. You used to write down the Revelation for the Prophet of God (peace and blessings of God be upon him). So you should seek out the Quran [i.e., the fragments on which Zayd had already written it during the lifetime of Prophet Muhammed] and collect it (in one book).’ By God, if they had ordered me to move one of the mountains, it would not have been harder for me than this command to collect the Quran.

This was done very soon after Prophet Muhammed passed away - and there were still many people alive who had memorised the Quran during his lifetime who could verify that the compiled Quran was true to the original.

Bukhari said the verse on stoning was revealed and read so where is it if it is not in the Quran?

Aisha says a goat ate the verse on stoning did part of the original Quran become goat poo?

Why did these hafiz who supposedly memorized the Quran leave out the verse on stoning,if they had memorized the entire Quran then why did forget the verse on stoning?

The Quran is not from Allah it is man made passed down by word of mouth like chinese whispers!

Islamic law will stone consenting adults to death for adultery yet having sexual intercourse with a donkey is ok , is this the superior morality of Islam falah?

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 17^th, 2011 at 9:50pm

I have never heard of this "askimam" website before, but I think you nade it up anyway becasue when I looked the "Fatwa # 19081", I didn't get the page you posts.

Instead i found this:

Fatwa # 19081 from Germany Date: Sunday, November 14th 2010
Category

Marriage (Nikah)
Title
What is the sunnah method of marriage and what rituals should be abstained from? Also, how should I reply to people who say JazakAllah?

Question

1) I will be getting married soon. I wanted to know what is the sunnah way to be adopted in marriage? What things are to be emphasized upon and what things should we abstain from? What actually is the Prophet’s sunnah and which rituals which people consider to be part of Deen should we abstain from?

2) Also how should I reply to one who says Jazakallah?

Answer

In the Name of Allāh, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

As-salāmu ‘alaykum wa-rahmatullāhi wa-barakātuh.

1) Nikah is considered an act of Ibadah and is a great sunnah of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasalaam). In order to attain full blessings and barakah from this great act, one should have the nikah ceremony in the closest way to the sunnah as possible. Firstly, one should conduct the nikah ceremony in the masjid, as Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasalaam) advised. It is unfortunate that nowadays many people choose to conduct the nikah in halls and fancy, expensive venues. Not only is this unnecessary but it is also extravagance, about which Allah Ta’ala states:

“O children of Adam, take on your adornment at every mosque. Eat and drink and do not be extravagant. Surely, He does not like the extravagant.” (7:31)

Furthermore, many times when these venues are used, there is plenty of unnecessary intermingling of the sexes, music, dancing etc. all of which are prohibited.

Also, many people include other celebrations in the time of weddings which have no basis in Shari’ah, such as the mehndi and other functions which are from other cultures. These events also include music, dancing etc. and must be avoided. For more information please refer to the following answer of Mufti Abu Yahya:

http://askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.php?askid=372cbb31454c71b78728df7a3642474c

2) The word JazakAllah is in essence a dua meaning “May Allah reward you”. When one gives this dua to you, respond by returning it back to them and saying “Wa Iyyak” (And to you as well) or once can say “Barak Allah” (May Allah bless you)

And Allāh knows best.

Muftī Asif Umar

Washington, DC (USA)

Concurred by:

Muftī Abrar Mirza

Chicago, IL (USA)

Under the Supervision of Muftī Ebrahim Desai (South Africa)

http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.php?askid=368435b931fcdcc794b5358c74e6fafa

YOu are displaying doctored pictures to try and deceive people on Ozpolitics.

You should be banned for such deceptive practices.

You have and all other posters emanating out of the same IP address have lost all credibility

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Soren on Oct 17^th, 2011 at 10:13pm

falah wrote on Oct 17^th, 2011 at 9:50pm:

Made you look, though, didn't it, galah. You wouldn't know by your own wits whether something like this is true islamic ruling or a hoax. So unfathomable by mere reason are the rules and twists of Islam that a Muslim can';t be sure hethr something like this would be advised by a 'scholar' or not.
You thought you'd better check.

Is this a true story?

"According to Islamic tradition, or Hadith, breast-feeding establishes a degree of maternal relation, even if a woman nurses a child who is not biologically hers. In his fatwa, Dr Atiya, the head of al-Azhar's Department of Hadith, said such teachings could equally apply to adults. He said that if a woman fed a male colleague "directly from her breast" at least five times they would establish a family bond and thus be allowed to be alone together at work. "

Yes it is.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Baronvonrort on Oct 17^th, 2011 at 10:59pm

falah wrote on Oct 17^th, 2011 at 9:50pm:

I have never heard of this "askimam" website before, but I think you nade it up anyway becasue when I looked the "Fatwa # 19081", I didn't get the page you posts.

You should be banned for such deceptive practices.

You have and all other posters emanating out of the same IP address have lost all credibility

I have use askimam before when he ruled a muslim woman cannot date a non muslim man.

I took a screenshot of the fatwa,if it has been changed that came from askimam not me.

What does the Quran say about having sex with animals falah?

Can you cite a verse from the Quran that prohibits you from having sex with animals?

Abu Dawud 38:4450- There is NO prescribed punishment for one who has sexual intercourse with an animal

More on muslims porking animals here-
http://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Bestiality

Here is an Iraqi caught having sex with his donkey-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyoMGLkLNVw

As we can see Islam will stone people to death for adultery yet having sex with animals is Ok under Islamic law.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Baronvonrort on Oct 18^th, 2011 at 8:18am

This is what the Quran says about having sex with animals-

Quote:

.

.

The Quran specifies punishments for sex outside of marriage,death to gays yet Allah says nothing about having sex with animals.

img269.imageshack.us/img269/484/goatboy.jpg

Islamic law will stone consenting adults to death for adultery yet having sex with animals is ok.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 18^th, 2011 at 10:07pm

Soren wrote on Oct 17^th, 2011 at 10:13pm:

falah wrote on Oct 17^th, 2011 at 9:50pm:

It is a fake story. I wanted to prove it was fake by going directly to the website and getting the url for the fatwa number put on the fake fatwa, so that everybody could easily click on it and see that it was fake.

Soren wrote on Oct 17^th, 2011 at 10:13pm:

Is this a true story?

"According to Islamic tradition, or Hadith, breast-feeding establishes a degree of maternal relation, even if a woman nurses a child who is not biologically hers. In his fatwa, Dr Atiya, the head of al-Azhar's Department of Hadith, said such teachings could equally apply to adults. He said that if a woman fed a male colleague "directly from her breast" at least five times they would establish a family bond and thus be allowed to be alone together at work. "

Yes it is.

It is incorrect

According to orthodox scholars breastfeeding an adult would not establish maternal relations:

"Breastfeeding by an adult does not have the effect of making him a mahram (close family member), because the breastfeeding that has that effect is five breastfeedings or more within the first two years of life before weaning. Breastfeeding by an adult does not have that effect..."

Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen
Fataawa Islamiyyah, 3/338. "

and the former mufti of Saudi Arabia, Ibn Baz, issued a similar fatwa.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Soren on Oct 18^th, 2011 at 10:37pm

Well, you'd better ring Dr Atiya, the head of al-Azhar's Department of Hadith.

Talking to Muslims is like going back to the 11th century via the fooking internetz.

"Imam, I am a 53 year old authority figure, kinda like a prophet, in the accounts payable department of a large multicultural enterprise. Can I be breastfed by my 25 year old lady colleague when everyone else has left the builing?"

"Well, lemme see....There are various scholarly interpretations of this situation... The guy in Cairo says yes, the guy in Riyadh says maybe, tell me more.... So who is this lady colleague? Do you rmember her breastfeeding you 5 times bfore you turned 2? Because if yes, yes - if no, then maybe. How big are her... I mean is she related to you? "

And so on, in a scholarly fashion, for centuries.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Baronvonrort on Oct 19^th, 2011 at 12:24pm

falah wrote on Oct 18^th, 2011 at 10:07pm:

Askimam must have overwritten the fatwa with another its pretty easy to do.

I took a screenshot of it and posted in on several other forums in the USA, maybe some muslim advised askimam to change it,it did cause many laughs for the kuffar while offending a few muslims.

Its pretty easy to refute it if it isnt true falah all you have to do is post a verse from the Quran saying sex with animals is haram.
This is what the Quran says about having sexual intercourse with animals-

Quote:

Nothing ,zip ,zilch.
The Quran is clear that unmarried consenting adults who have sex should receive 100 lashes yet why does it say nothing about sex with animals?
http://quran.com/24/2

You could cite something from the hadith that says sex with animals is haram if you want to refute this-
Abu Dawud 38:4450- There is no prescribed punishment for one who has sexual intercourse with an animal

There you go umarried consenting couples are to be flogged 100 times for sex outside of marriage yet having sex with an animal has no prescribed punishment.

What religion allows you to beat your wife (Quran 4:34) and have sex with your pet goat - Islam

Falah- all you have to do is produce verses from the Quran or hadith that clearly say sex is haram with animals to refute this...

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by falah on Oct 19^th, 2011 at 5:15pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 19^th, 2011 at 12:24pm:

Or you photoshopped it which seems much more likely.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 19^th, 2011 at 12:24pm:

Its pretty easy to refute it if it isnt true falah all you have to do is post a verse from the Quran saying sex with animals is haram.

So if we apply that logic to every organisation...MacDonalds Corporation has no specific policy in regard to animal sex - does that mean MacDonalds supports animal sex. Stupid argument.

Quote:

You could cite something from the hadith that says sex with animals is haram if you want to refute this-
Abu Dawud 38:4450- There is no prescribed punishment for one who has sexual intercourse with an animal

Once again you expose your ignorance. That is not a hadeeth. It is the opinion of a Muslim scholar, Ibn Abbas, who gives his opinion that there is no specified punishment for the crime - but that does not mean that a judge cannot impose a punishment. It means a judge has some freedom in imposing a punishment of his choice. It does not infer that there is no punishment at all.

Quote:

There you go umarried consenting couples are to be flogged 100 times for sex outside of marriage yet having sex with an animal has no prescribed punishment.

Do you know what prescribed means? It means there is no set punishment. A judge can impose a punishment in this case such as a jail term.

Quote:

What religion allows you to beat your wife (Quran 4:34) and have sex with your pet goat - Islam

Quote:

I truly believe this is something that you or somebody else has photoshopped. The number given does not correspond to the fatwa on the website.

Quote:

Falah- all you have to do is produce verses from the Quran or hadith that clearly say sex is haram with animals to refute this...

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Baronvonrort on Oct 19^th, 2011 at 7:25pm

falah wrote on Oct 19^th, 2011 at 5:15pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 19^th, 2011 at 12:24pm:

Or you photoshopped it which seems much more likely.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 19^th, 2011 at 12:24pm:

Its pretty easy to refute it if it isnt true falah all you have to do is post a verse from the Quran saying sex with animals is haram.

So if we apply that logic to every organisation...MacDonalds Corporation has no specific policy in regard to animal sex - does that mean MacDonalds supports animal sex. Stupid argument.

Quote:

Do you know what prescribed means? It means there is no set punishment. A judge can impose a punishment in this case such as a jail term.

Quote:

What religion allows you to beat your wife (Quran 4:34) and have sex with your pet goat - Islam

Quote:

I truly believe this is something that you or somebody else has photoshopped. The number given does not correspond to the fatwa on the website.

Quote:

Falah- all you have to do is produce verses from the Quran or hadith that clearly say sex is haram with animals to refute this...

The Prophet is also reported to have said : Among those whom God will not look at (with mercy) on the Day of Resurrection, and to whom He will say, "Enter the Fire (of Hell) along with those who enter," the Prophet counted the following: The active and the passive partners in homosexuality; the one who has sex with animals; the one who is married to a woman and her daughter at the same time; and the one who masturbates regularly, unless they repent and reform. <Tirmidhi>

Verily,God enjoins Justice and perfection in religion [i.e. to be patient in performing your duties to God, totally for God's sake and in accordance with the legal ways of the Prophet in a perfect manner], and giving (assistance) to kith and kin (i.e. all that God has ordered you to give them e.g., wealth, visiting, looking after them, or any other kind of help, etc.): and forbids indecency (i.e illegal sexual acts, etc.), and evil-doing, and all kinds of oppression). He admonishes you, that you may take heed.
The Quran, an-Nahl, 16:90

We were with the Prophet while we were young and had no wealth whatsoever. So God’s Prophet said, "O young people! Whoever among you can marry, should marry, because it helps him lower his gaze and guard his modesty (i.e. his private parts from committing illegal sexual intercourse etc.), and whoever is not able to marry, should fast, as fasting diminishes his sexual desire."
Bukhari:5066.

[/quote]

Its easy to overwrite a file on a computer just give it the same name or fatwa number and your computer will tell you this file already exists do you wish to replace it.
I have never used photoshop i dont even have any photo editing software.

I posted this picture on several forums in the USA its more likely a muslim told askimam to change it because it makes Islam look stupid, much like Zakir Naik deceives people by saying the earth is ostrich shaped instead of flat.

Mc Donalds does not claim to have superior morality in regard to other beliefs they make stuff they pass of as food they have nothing to do with peoples beliefs.
Its really a pathetic strawman from you falah.

If there is no specified or prescribed punishment then why did allah overlook this considering porking animals was done in Mohammads time?
Sure a judge can specify a punishment yet this punishment is not coming from Islamic sources is it falah?

Quran 16/90 says nothing about sexual intercourse with animals being haram you are stretching the truth with that one.
http://quran.com/16/90

Is there a hadith that says you cannot eat an animal you have had sex with?

Why does allah say in the Quran that unmarried couple should get 100 lashes for sex outside of marriage yet he is silent on the subject of sex with animals in the quran and as we see there is no prescribed punishment for porking animals ?

Abu Dawud 38:4450- There is no prescribed punishment for one who has sexual intercourse with an animal.

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Baronvonrort on Oct 21^st, 2011 at 4:26pm

Falah why did askimam specify the only animal a muslim cannot have sexual intercourse with is a pig?

Sura 5:3

Quote:

Prohibited to you are dead animals,...The flesh of swine,..

This day i have perfected for you your religion and completed my favour upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion

http://quran.com/5/3

Do you think Islam has been perfected falah?

Title: Re: Christians Rampage Through Cairo
Post by Soren on Oct 25^th, 2011 at 10:13pm

Falah's been arrested.