Trumpeting about her success in introducing carbon tax, our PM once again, spoke of carbon dioxide as a pollutant.

It is not - it's in the air we breathe!

She is such an imbecile that I have to wonder at the idiots who' had let her loose in the parliament.

Surely, we haven't that many illiterates who can't even be bothered to read, check on the truth of her statements?

We have Craig Thompson a thief, Mary Jo Fisher, who shouldn't be in politics if she is a chronic depressive, Bob Brown, whose very lifestyle is hardly compatible with that of a vital leader of a nation.

So, the country is going to the dogs!

olde.sault wrote on Nov 13^th, 2011 at 3:52pm:

Trumpeting about her success in introducing carbon tax, our PM once again, spoke of carbon dioxide as a pollutant. It is not - it's in the air we breathe! She is such an imbecile that I have to wonder at the idiots who' had let her loose in the parliament. Surely, we haven't that many illiterates who can't even be bothered to read, check on the truth of her statements? We have Craig Thompson a thief, Mary Jo Fisher, who shouldn't be in politics if she is a chronic depressive, Bob Brown, whose very lifestyle is hardly compatible with that of a vital leader of a nation. So, the country is going to the dogs!

Do you get paid for your foolish statements?

olde.sault wrote on Nov 13^th, 2011 at 3:52pm:

Trumpeting about her success in introducing carbon tax, our PM once again, spoke of carbon dioxide as a pollutant. It is not - it's in the air we breathe! She is such an imbecile that I have to wonder at the idiots who' had let her loose in the parliament. Surely, we haven't that many illiterates who can't even be bothered to read, check on the truth of her statements? We have Craig Thompson a thief, Mary Jo Fisher, who shouldn't be in politics if she is a chronic depressive, Bob Brown, whose very lifestyle is hardly compatible with that of a vital leader of a nation. So, the country is going to the dogs!

cant have a go at boobies lifestyle saulty... she is the same.. if that timmy isnt GAY I will eat my hat..see his picture in Indonesia I am surprised he was alloed in.. ;D ;D ;D isnt he getting his gut full whilst hes living at the lodge.. no bad for a nobody.. I hear hes mov ed his kids in as well

cods wrote on Nov 13^th, 2011 at 4:00pm:

olde.sault wrote on Nov 13th, 2011 at 3:52pm: Trumpeting about her success in introducing carbon tax, our PM once again, spoke of carbon dioxide as a pollutant. It is not - it's in the air we breathe! She is such an imbecile that I have to wonder at the idiots who' had let her loose in the parliament. Surely, we haven't that many illiterates who can't even be bothered to read, check on the truth of her statements? We have Craig Thompson a thief, Mary Jo Fisher, who shouldn't be in politics if she is a chronic depressive, Bob Brown, whose very lifestyle is hardly compatible with that of a vital leader of a nation. So, the country is going to the dogs! cant have a go at boobies lifestyle saulty... she is the same.. if that timmy isnt GAY I will eat my hat..see his picture in Indonesia I am surprised he was alloed in.. ;D ;D ;D isnt he getting his gut full whilst hes living at the lodge.. no bad for a nobody.. I hear hes mov ed his kids in as well

Nice how the rightards bitch if anyone mentions Abbott's missus but they think Gillards partner is fair game, typical hypocrites they are.

Tony's happily married.

Timmy's either a beard or just another notch on Gillards well notched bedpost, right next to (errrggghhhhh) Emerson

skippy. wrote on Nov 13^th, 2011 at 4:17pm:

cods wrote on Nov 13th, 2011 at 4:00pm: olde.sault wrote on Nov 13th, 2011 at 3:52pm: Trumpeting about her success in introducing carbon tax, our PM once again, spoke of carbon dioxide as a pollutant. It is not - it's in the air we breathe! She is such an imbecile that I have to wonder at the idiots who' had let her loose in the parliament. Surely, we haven't that many illiterates who can't even be bothered to read, check on the truth of her statements? We have Craig Thompson a thief, Mary Jo Fisher, who shouldn't be in politics if she is a chronic depressive, Bob Brown, whose very lifestyle is hardly compatible with that of a vital leader of a nation. So, the country is going to the dogs! cant have a go at boobies lifestyle saulty... she is the same.. if that timmy isnt GAY I will eat my hat..see his picture in Indonesia I am surprised he was alloed in.. ;D ;D ;D isnt he getting his gut full whilst hes living at the lodge.. no bad for a nobody.. I hear hes mov ed his kids in as well Nice how the rightards bitch if anyone mentions Abbott's missus but they think Gillards partner is fair game, typical hypocrites they are.

Not really criticising the gay lifestyle.

I've known some charming gays and many have contributed a lot to the arts, etc.. As long as they are not harming any young people, I don't meditate on how they do it but,

any leader of a party has to have both feet firm on the ground and that hardly describes Bob.

Well, if he reckons that, very soon, the sun and wind will take the place of coal power, he is up with the fairies!

log_me_in wrote on Nov 13^th, 2011 at 4:20pm:

Tony's happily married. Timmy's either a beard or just another notch on Gillards well notched bedpost, right next to (errrggghhhhh) Emerson

How the frack do you know who is and isn't in a mutually happy and committed relationship!?

Personally, I reckon that the body language of the partners of both Abbott and Gillard reveals that they are uncomfortable playing second fiddle to their partners' political ambitions...

Abbott's wife, in particular, seemed shocked and mortified that he came so close to securing the PMship in the 2010 Election - check out the images from his election night speech if you don't believe me!

Not only was she dressed for a funeral, but her expression was grave - and all 3 of their daughters seemed similarly dismayed...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/data?pid=avimage&iid=i6BDyXzY_d_I

skippy. wrote on Nov 13^th, 2011 at 3:56pm:

olde.sault wrote on Nov 13th, 2011 at 3:52pm: Trumpeting about her success in introducing carbon tax, our PM once again, spoke of carbon dioxide as a pollutant. It is not - it's in the air we breathe! She is such an imbecile that I have to wonder at the idiots who' had let her loose in the parliament. Surely, we haven't that many illiterates who can't even be bothered to read, check on the truth of her statements? We have Craig Thompson a thief, Mary Jo Fisher, who shouldn't be in politics if she is a chronic depressive, Bob Brown, whose very lifestyle is hardly compatible with that of a vital leader of a nation. So, the country is going to the dogs! Do you get paid for your foolish statements?

No, I don't get paid and nothing I've said, was false or foolish.

You can point to a site that claims that carbon dioxide is a pollutant.

I've heard many world-renowned climatologists say that 97% of carbon dioxide is nature-made and the world's contribution is a measly 3%.

In any case, we are exporting coal to Asian countries and it is they who are causing much of the 3% emissions, not we.

By the way, grammatically "we" is correct - not "us" (as most of you lefties would say).

Quote:

if that timmy isnt GAY I will eat my hat..see his picture in Indonesia I am surprised he was alloed in..    isnt he getting his gut full whilst hes living at the lodge.. no bad for a nobody..

Not referring to you, salty, cods thought it appropriate to call the PMs partner gay and whine about him living at the lodge, I bet she didn't whine about Howard's handbag doing the same, but we've come to expect these double standards from the likes of cods.

Looks to be the eiptome of the average Australian nuclear family.

It's probably something Juliar longs for but is unable to have because of her inability to form lasting relationships

log_me_in wrote on Nov 13^th, 2011 at 4:46pm:

...average Australian nuclear family. It's probably something Juliar longs for but is unable to have because of her inability to form lasting relationships

LOL...more projections from the right...

log_me_in wrote on Nov 13^th, 2011 at 4:46pm:

Looks to be the eiptome of the average Australian nuclear family. It's probably something Juliar longs for but is unable to have because of her inability to form lasting relationships

Hey! log in, did you catch up with matty and sort out that treatment? I bet you didn't, you can't be relied on, you no hoper, low-life. Matty was looking for you a while back, I think he's feeling a bit sorry for himself, he can't please Pauline at the moment, you know how it is, so she said she'll text Tony and see if he wants to meet up with her and have a chat about giving him her preferences at the next election. They used to get on really well you know, they have history you could say.

Quote:

you can't be relied on, you no hoper, low-life.

Such anger from one who is supposed to be enlightened.

You should try some professional counselling to get you to a better place in life. After all, it can only be upwards from where you are

olde.sault wrote on Nov 13^th, 2011 at 3:52pm:

Trumpeting about her success in introducing carbon tax, our PM once again, spoke of carbon dioxide as a pollutant. It is not - it's in the air we breathe! She is such an imbecile that I have to wonder at the idiots who' had let her loose in the parliament. Surely, we haven't that many illiterates who can't even be bothered to read, check on the truth of her statements? We have Craig Thompson a thief, Mary Jo Fisher, who shouldn't be in politics if she is a chronic depressive, Bob Brown, whose very lifestyle is hardly compatible with that of a vital leader of a nation. So, the country is going to the dogs!

Perhaps you should quote her.

skippy. wrote on Nov 13^th, 2011 at 4:45pm:

Quote: if that timmy isnt GAY I will eat my hat..see his picture in Indonesia I am surprised he was alloed in..    isnt he getting his gut full whilst hes living at the lodge.. no bad for a nobody.. Not referring to you, salty, cods thought it appropriate to call the PMs partner gay and whine about him living at the lodge, I bet she didn't whine about Howard's handbag doing the same, but we've come to expect these double standards from the likes of cods.

well I am not whining like you I am pointing out a fact...its a sham I do have the proof but cant put it up here..

why dont you get a life your whole life on here now has got, not a thing to do with debate its all about picking on cods.. what a sad sack you really are.. a lemon if ever there was one..[ooooo abuseooooo]

go and talk or more like read, your lefty chums... then you can all niggle and niggle to your hearts content..I am over you and your slurs.. I dont like you you dont like me.. me have not a thing in common I like a debate! you like to put people down..

to each his own..I really dont have anything I wish to say to someone like you.... feel free to think the same way about me.

you point out where I have brought your id into one or two posts I have made in the past... well perhaps you could take a good look at what you post once in a while..I am sure your references to myself far outway any I have put out there..maybe FD would know more about that..

Quote:

cant have a go at boobies lifestyle saulty... she is the same.. if that timmy isnt GAY I will eat my hat..see his picture in Indonesia I am surprised he was alloed in..    isnt he getting his gut full whilst hes living at the lodge.. no bad for a nobody.. I hear hes mov ed his kids in as well

Quote:

well I am not whining like you I am pointing out a fact

If you want to defend your filth and bile go ahead, we;ve come to expect no less from you.

cods wrote on Nov 13^th, 2011 at 5:23pm:

skippy. wrote on Nov 13th, 2011 at 4:45pm: Quote: if that timmy isnt GAY I will eat my hat..see his picture in Indonesia I am surprised he was alloed in..    isnt he getting his gut full whilst hes living at the lodge.. no bad for a nobody.. Not referring to you, salty, cods thought it appropriate to call the PMs partner gay and whine about him living at the lodge, I bet she didn't whine about Howard's handbag doing the same, but we've come to expect these double standards from the likes of cods. well I am not whining like you I am pointing out a fact...its a sham I do have the proof but cant put it up here.. why dont you get a life your whole life on here now has got, not a thing to do with debate its all about picking on cods.. what a sad sack you really are.. a lemon if ever there was one..[ooooo abuseooooo] go and talk or more like read, your lefty chums... then you can all niggle and niggle to your hearts content..I am over you and your slurs.. I dont like you you dont like me.. me have not a thing in common I like a debate! you like to put people down.. to each his own..I really dont have anything I wish to say to someone like you.... feel free to think the same way about me. you point out where I have brought your id into one or two posts I have made in the past... well perhaps you could take a good look at what you post once in a while..I am sure your references to myself far outway any I have put out there..maybe FD would know more about that..

Cods .. best to ignore and report. Incidentally, he behaves like this on all forums he posts in. K??

Lisa Jones wrote on Nov 13^th, 2011 at 5:28pm:

cods wrote on Nov 13th, 2011 at 5:23pm: skippy. wrote on Nov 13th, 2011 at 4:45pm: Quote: if that timmy isnt GAY I will eat my hat..see his picture in Indonesia I am surprised he was alloed in..    isnt he getting his gut full whilst hes living at the lodge.. no bad for a nobody.. Not referring to you, salty, cods thought it appropriate to call the PMs partner gay and whine about him living at the lodge, I bet she didn't whine about Howard's handbag doing the same, but we've come to expect these double standards from the likes of cods. well I am not whining like you I am pointing out a fact...its a sham I do have the proof but cant put it up here.. why dont you get a life your whole life on here now has got, not a thing to do with debate its all about picking on cods.. what a sad sack you really are.. a lemon if ever there was one..[ooooo abuseooooo] go and talk or more like read, your lefty chums... then you can all niggle and niggle to your hearts content..I am over you and your slurs.. I dont like you you dont like me.. me have not a thing in common I like a debate! you like to put people down.. to each his own..I really dont have anything I wish to say to someone like you.... feel free to think the same way about me. you point out where I have brought your id into one or two posts I have made in the past... well perhaps you could take a good look at what you post once in a while..I am sure your references to myself far outway any I have put out there..maybe FD would know more about that.. Cods .. best to ignore and report. Incidentally, he behaves like this on all forums he posts in. K??

  thanks lisa... he is a poor excuse for a man isnt he?.. did you know he wishes old people to hurry up and die.??

he is such a coward.. brings up all the history on others on here but do it to him.. and he goes pearshaped...lol...I really couldnt care less why I reply to the.... I was going to say idiot.. but he will fall over if I do that...so why I reply i dont know..I can only guess his wife cant stand him either as he spends so much time on here..what a dull life she must have looking at the back of someones head whilst he spreads his sh!t on here..


where have you been lisa havent seen you around?

we need some debaters on here its all becoming very personalised once again. I am still getting over the mellie vendetta I dont think we want to go down that road once again do you?

Lisa Jones wrote on Nov 13^th, 2011 at 5:28pm:

cods wrote on Nov 13th, 2011 at 5:23pm: skippy. wrote on Nov 13th, 2011 at 4:45pm: Quote: if that timmy isnt GAY I will eat my hat..see his picture in Indonesia I am surprised he was alloed in..    isnt he getting his gut full whilst hes living at the lodge.. no bad for a nobody.. Not referring to you, salty, cods thought it appropriate to call the PMs partner gay and whine about him living at the lodge, I bet she didn't whine about Howard's handbag doing the same, but we've come to expect these double standards from the likes of cods. well I am not whining like you I am pointing out a fact...its a sham I do have the proof but cant put it up here.. why dont you get a life your whole life on here now has got, not a thing to do with debate its all about picking on cods.. what a sad sack you really are.. a lemon if ever there was one..[ooooo abuseooooo] go and talk or more like read, your lefty chums... then you can all niggle and niggle to your hearts content..I am over you and your slurs.. I dont like you you dont like me.. me have not a thing in common I like a debate! you like to put people down.. to each his own..I really dont have anything I wish to say to someone like you.... feel free to think the same way about me. you point out where I have brought your id into one or two posts I have made in the past... well perhaps you could take a good look at what you post once in a while..I am sure your references to myself far outway any I have put out there..maybe FD would know more about that.. Cods .. best to ignore and report. Incidentally, he behaves like this on all forums he posts in. K??

Good advice, I always just report lisa's trolling now. I hope you report my posts, the mods can ban you for wasting their time.

cods wrote on Nov 13^th, 2011 at 5:36pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Nov 13th, 2011 at 5:28pm: cods wrote on Nov 13th, 2011 at 5:23pm: skippy. wrote on Nov 13th, 2011 at 4:45pm: Quote: if that timmy isnt GAY I will eat my hat..see his picture in Indonesia I am surprised he was alloed in..    isnt he getting his gut full whilst hes living at the lodge.. no bad for a nobody.. Not referring to you, salty, cods thought it appropriate to call the PMs partner gay and whine about him living at the lodge, I bet she didn't whine about Howard's handbag doing the same, but we've come to expect these double standards from the likes of cods. well I am not whining like you I am pointing out a fact...its a sham I do have the proof but cant put it up here.. why dont you get a life your whole life on here now has got, not a thing to do with debate its all about picking on cods.. what a sad sack you really are.. a lemon if ever there was one..[ooooo abuseooooo] go and talk or more like read, your lefty chums... then you can all niggle and niggle to your hearts content..I am over you and your slurs.. I dont like you you dont like me.. me have not a thing in common I like a debate! you like to put people down.. to each his own..I really dont have anything I wish to say to someone like you.... feel free to think the same way about me. you point out where I have brought your id into one or two posts I have made in the past... well perhaps you could take a good look at what you post once in a while..I am sure your references to myself far outway any I have put out there..maybe FD would know more about that.. Cods .. best to ignore and report. Incidentally, he behaves like this on all forums he posts in. K??   thanks lisa... he is a poor excuse for a man isnt he?.. did you know he wishes old people to hurry up and die.?? he is such a coward.. brings up all the history on others on here but do it to him.. and he goes pearshaped...lol...I really couldnt care less why I reply to the.... I was going to say idiot.. but he will fall over if I do that...so why I reply i dont know..I can only guess his wife cant stand him either as he spends so much time on here..what a dull life she must have looking at the back of someones head whilst he spreads his sh!t on here.. where have you been lisa havent seen you around? we need some debaters on here its all becoming very personalised once again. I am still getting over the mellie vendetta I dont think we want to go down that road once again do you?

Yes its awful highlighting your bile.

cods wrote on Nov 13^th, 2011 at 5:36pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Nov 13th, 2011 at 5:28pm: cods wrote on Nov 13th, 2011 at 5:23pm: skippy. wrote on Nov 13th, 2011 at 4:45pm: Quote: if that timmy isnt GAY I will eat my hat..see his picture in Indonesia I am surprised he was alloed in..    isnt he getting his gut full whilst hes living at the lodge.. no bad for a nobody.. Not referring to you, salty, cods thought it appropriate to call the PMs partner gay and whine about him living at the lodge, I bet she didn't whine about Howard's handbag doing the same, but we've come to expect these double standards from the likes of cods. well I am not whining like you I am pointing out a fact...its a sham I do have the proof but cant put it up here.. why dont you get a life your whole life on here now has got, not a thing to do with debate its all about picking on cods.. what a sad sack you really are.. a lemon if ever there was one..[ooooo abuseooooo] go and talk or more like read, your lefty chums... then you can all niggle and niggle to your hearts content..I am over you and your slurs.. I dont like you you dont like me.. me have not a thing in common I like a debate! you like to put people down.. to each his own..I really dont have anything I wish to say to someone like you.... feel free to think the same way about me. you point out where I have brought your id into one or two posts I have made in the past... well perhaps you could take a good look at what you post once in a while..I am sure your references to myself far outway any I have put out there..maybe FD would know more about that.. Cods .. best to ignore and report. Incidentally, he behaves like this on all forums he posts in. K??   thanks lisa... he is a poor excuse for a man isnt he?.. did you know he wishes old people to hurry up and die.?? he is such a coward.. brings up all the history on others on here but do it to him.. and he goes pearshaped...lol...I really couldnt care less why I reply to the.... I was going to say idiot.. but he will fall over if I do that...so why I reply i dont know..I can only guess his wife cant stand him either as he spends so much time on here..what a dull life she must have looking at the back of someones head whilst he spreads his sh!t on here.. where have you been lisa havent seen you around? we need some debaters on here its all becoming very personalised once again. I am still getting over the mellie vendetta I dont think we want to go down that road once again do you?

Hey Cods .. LTNS! I've been very busy with real time stuff over the past few months.

I agree .. this Skippy id is very much like that if ANY of his posts are anything to go by.

The fact that he literally LIVES on 2 of FD's forums 7 days a week (esp during working hours) .. says all we need to know about him .. right?

Just quietly report and ignore my sweet. Eventually, even obsessive trolls like him tire and (unfortunately) move onto another unsuspecting female victim.

I doubt that there's anything going on between Julia and Timmy. He eats meat and she's a vagitarian.

Wrong post

cods wrote
cant have a go at boobies lifestyle saulty... she is the same.. if that timmy isnt GAY I will eat my hat..see his picture in Indonesia I am surprised he was alloed in..    isnt he getting his gut full whilst hes living at the lodge.. no bad for a nobody.. I hear hes mov ed his kids in as well  
   




I expect this post from cods to be deleted if longweekend is not a hypocrite, he deleted a post of mine about Akerman even tho I produced evidence it was true. longweekend claimed it was defamatory,and the site could be sued. Well surly calling the PMs partner gay is much more defamatory.

One wonders if a certain male poster should consider doing some volunteer work given he has so much free time on his hands.

says the woman who constructs elaborate fictional personas for herself on the internet :o

olde.sault wrote on Nov 13^th, 2011 at 3:52pm:

Trumpeting about her success in introducing carbon tax, our PM once again, spoke of carbon dioxide as a pollutant. It is not - it's in the air we breathe!

salty, perhaps you should look up in the dictionary what a "pollutant" is, I did.

"any substance, that renders the air, soil, water, or other natural resource harmful or unsuitable for a specific purpose."

So if excess CO2 renders the air unsuitable for our current level of civilisation, then by definition it is a pollutant.

Tim is just a handbag to make Juliar appear "normal".

Juliar is having trouble coping with its menopause which is making it go sillier each day that passes.

juliar wrote on Nov 15^th, 2011 at 5:20pm:

Tim is just a handbag to make Juliar appear "normal". Juliar is having trouble coping with its menopause which is making it go sillier each day that passes.

lovely picture of timmy doing a high kick for Michelle Obamas benefit in  tdays paper...maybe he was demonstrating  the one gillard used to boot ruddy out of the door.. ;D ;D ;D

Lies Lies La Cosa Nostra Corporate Lies.  What long held principle will JuLIAR sell out next for the almighty dollar and corporate greed?  Shut up JuLIAR - just shut up.

Julia lied again!

This claim of a lie is almost as silly as the first one.

It should be called Julia told the truth again.

Dnarever wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 11:44am:

Julia lied again! This claim of a lie is almost as silly as the first one. It should be called Julia told the truth again.

Well I agree that this one shouldn't really be called a lie, but I can't believe your still running with the ridiculous notion that Gillard didn't lie when she said "there will be no carbon tax under a government I lead." So if it wasn't a lie, what was it?  

olde.sault wrote on Nov 13^th, 2011 at 3:52pm:

Trumpeting about her success in introducing carbon tax, our PM once again, spoke of carbon dioxide as a pollutant. It is not - it's in the air we breathe! She is such an imbecile that I have to wonder at the idiots who' had let her loose in the parliament. Surely, we haven't that many illiterates who can't even be bothered to read, check on the truth of her statements? We have Craig Thompson a thief, Mary Jo Fisher, who shouldn't be in politics if she is a chronic depressive, Bob Brown, whose very lifestyle is hardly compatible with that of a vital leader of a nation. So, the country is going to the dogs!

"......... GONE to the dogs " would be more correct I believe

... wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 11:52am:

Dnarever wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 11:44am: Julia lied again! This claim of a lie is almost as silly as the first one. It should be called Julia told the truth again. Well I agree that this one shouldn't really be called a lie, but I can't believe your still running with the ridiculous notion that Gillard didn't lie when she said "there will be no carbon tax under a government I lead." So if it wasn't a lie, what was it?

I find it impossible to believe that anyone thinks that she did not mean what she said at the time which means that she knew what the election result would be and that the Greens who were put in place with Liberal preferences would want to do a deal putting a fixed price on carbon back on the agenda.

Gillard clearly broke her promise just as Howard had done with his GST but a broken promise is different to a lie.

Dnarever wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 12:32pm:

Gillard clearly broke her promise just as Howard had done with his GST but a broken promise is different to a lie.

Yeah, but only Phoney Tony is allowed to break a promise, dna! Or lie.

Dnarever wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 12:32pm:

... wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 11:52am: Dnarever wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 11:44am: Julia lied again! This claim of a lie is almost as silly as the first one. It should be called Julia told the truth again. Well I agree that this one shouldn't really be called a lie, but I can't believe your still running with the ridiculous notion that Gillard didn't lie when she said "there will be no carbon tax under a government I lead." So if it wasn't a lie, what was it?   I find it impossible to believe that anyone thinks that she did not mean what she said at the time which means that she knew what the election result would be and that the Greens who were put in place with Liberal preferences would want to do a deal putting a fixed price on carbon back on the agenda. Gillard clearly broke her promise just as Howard had done with his GST but a broken promise is different to a lie.

....

What a pity Julia Gillard didn't go to the election saying, "There WILL be a carbon tax under the government I lead" and we may not be having this debate at all, as I doubt she would have become PM on that premise.

John Howard DID go to an election saying there would be a GST if he was elected. That is the brave thing to do...put your political life on the line...he knew he could lose, but at least the people knew that a GST would be the outcome if he was elected.

Julia wasn't brave enough to do the same and her words will always condemn her as a liar.

Dnarever wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 12:32pm:

... wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 11:52am: Dnarever wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 11:44am: Julia lied again! This claim of a lie is almost as silly as the first one. It should be called Julia told the truth again. Well I agree that this one shouldn't really be called a lie, but I can't believe your still running with the ridiculous notion that Gillard didn't lie when she said "there will be no carbon tax under a government I lead." So if it wasn't a lie, what was it?   I find it impossible to believe that anyone thinks that she did not mean what she said at the time which means that she knew what the election result would be and that the Greens who were put in place with Liberal preferences would want to do a deal putting a fixed price on carbon back on the agenda. Gillard clearly broke her promise just as Howard had done with his GST but a broken promise is different to a lie.

ooooooo are we going to remember that one..... thats a beaudy newk!

Gist wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 12:56pm:

Dnarever wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 12:32pm: Gillard clearly broke her promise just as Howard had done with his GST but a broken promise is different to a lie. Yeah, but only Phoney Tony is allowed to break a promise, dna! Or lie.

he is NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YIPPEE

cods wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 2:19pm:

Gist wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 12:56pm: Dnarever wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 12:32pm: Gillard clearly broke her promise just as Howard had done with his GST but a broken promise is different to a lie. Yeah, but only Phoney Tony is allowed to break a promise, dna! Or lie. he is NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YIPPEE

............

How do, cods!
Cannot believe that people really keep on bringing up the old chestnut of the GST. It went to an election. The carbon tax did not. More is the pity.

olive wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 2:13pm:

Dnarever wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 12:32pm: ... wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 11:52am: Dnarever wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 11:44am: Julia lied again! This claim of a lie is almost as silly as the first one. It should be called Julia told the truth again. Well I agree that this one shouldn't really be called a lie, but I can't believe your still running with the ridiculous notion that Gillard didn't lie when she said "there will be no carbon tax under a government I lead." So if it wasn't a lie, what was it?   I find it impossible to believe that anyone thinks that she did not mean what she said at the time which means that she knew what the election result would be and that the Greens who were put in place with Liberal preferences would want to do a deal putting a fixed price on carbon back on the agenda. Gillard clearly broke her promise just as Howard had done with his GST but a broken promise is different to a lie. .... What a pity Julia Gillard didn't go to the election saying, "There WILL be a carbon tax under the government I lead" and we may not be having this debate at all, as I doubt she would have become PM on that premise. John Howard DID go to an election saying there would be a GST if he was elected. That is the brave thing to do...put your political life on the line...he knew he could lose, but at least the people knew that a GST would be the outcome if he was elected. Julia wasn't brave enough to do the same and her words will always condemn her as a liar.

Gillard could only have done that had she known it would be a hung parliament, and she would have to negotiate with the GREENS to form government .Only an idiot would think she could have known that.

skippy. wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 2:25pm:

olive wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 2:13pm: Dnarever wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 12:32pm: ... wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 11:52am: Dnarever wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 11:44am: Julia lied again! This claim of a lie is almost as silly as the first one. It should be called Julia told the truth again. Well I agree that this one shouldn't really be called a lie, but I can't believe your still running with the ridiculous notion that Gillard didn't lie when she said "there will be no carbon tax under a government I lead." So if it wasn't a lie, what was it?   I find it impossible to believe that anyone thinks that she did not mean what she said at the time which means that she knew what the election result would be and that the Greens who were put in place with Liberal preferences would want to do a deal putting a fixed price on carbon back on the agenda. Gillard clearly broke her promise just as Howard had done with his GST but a broken promise is different to a lie. .... What a pity Julia Gillard didn't go to the election saying, "There WILL be a carbon tax under the government I lead" and we may not be having this debate at all, as I doubt she would have become PM on that premise. John Howard DID go to an election saying there would be a GST if he was elected. That is the brave thing to do...put your political life on the line...he knew he could lose, but at least the people knew that a GST would be the outcome if he was elected. Julia wasn't brave enough to do the same and her words will always condemn her as a liar. Gillard could only have done that had she known it would be a hung parliament, and she would have to negotiate with the GREENS to form government .Only an idiot would think she could have known that.

.....................................................................................

How do you come up with that excuse? Either she wasn't interested in bringing in a Carbon Tax, as she stated, or she WAS, which is what actually happened. She should have stuck by her conviction, whether a hung parliament or not, as now it looks as if the Greens are actually running the show. She may not have won the election if she had not fallen in with their wishes, but she could have retained some honour in her word.

olive wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 2:23pm:

cods wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 2:19pm: Gist wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 12:56pm: Dnarever wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 12:32pm: Gillard clearly broke her promise just as Howard had done with his GST but a broken promise is different to a lie. Yeah, but only Phoney Tony is allowed to break a promise, dna! Or lie. he is NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YIPPEE ............ How do, cods! Cannot believe that people really keep on bringing up the old chestnut of the GST. It went to an election. The carbon tax did not. More is the pity.

good to see you back olive..try and behave like I do wont you...

yes I think like everything else on here they are grasping at excuses anything in a storm..what she did was unforgivable in my OPINION..but KARMA will see this out for what it is a giant TAX GRAB..

I keep losing myself on here.. and I ask all the experts on CARBON and CLIMATE CHANGE what and when we can expect the climate to well......change....

but I am yet to get a full answer.. its always a putdown.. wouldnt you know?..

I am trusting its before Al Gores prophecy 2013..it doesnt give them much time.. but I am sure they have thought all about that ;D :D ;)

How do you come up with that excuse?
Because I understand she cant see into  the future and predict what will happen, only an idiot or a fortune teller could write such nonsense, which one are you?

cods wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 2:34pm:

olive wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 2:23pm: cods wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 2:19pm: Gist wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 12:56pm: Dnarever wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 12:32pm: Gillard clearly broke her promise just as Howard had done with his GST but a broken promise is different to a lie. Yeah, but only Phoney Tony is allowed to break a promise, dna! Or lie. he is NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YIPPEE ............ How do, cods! Cannot believe that people really keep on bringing up the old chestnut of the GST. It went to an election. The carbon tax did not. More is the pity. good to see you back olive..try and behave like I do wont you... yes I think like everything else on here they are grasping at excuses anything in a storm..what she did was unforgivable in my OPINION..but KARMA will see this out for what it is a giant TAX GRAB.. I keep losing myself on here.. and I ask all the experts on CARBON and CLIMATE CHANGE what and when we can expect the climate to well......change.... but I am yet to get a full answer.. its always a putdown.. wouldnt you know?.. I am trusting its before Al Gores prophecy 2013..it doesnt give them much time.. but I am sure they have thought all about that ;D :D ;)

................................

Yes, cods. The Carbon Tax is Julia's baby now. Did you see that cartoon with Julia and Bob Brown in a swimming pool with a turd marked "Carbon Tax". You see all the leaders from the other major countries panicking to get out of the pool (USA, Canada, China, India...etc..) and Bob Brown saying he didn't do it. Lol....Yeh RIGHT!!!

skippy. wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 2:36pm:

How do you come up with that excuse? Because I understand she cant see into  the future and predict what will happen, only an idiot or a fortune teller could write such nonsense, which one are you?

................................

So you can't answer my question? Just say so. Your argument is nonsense. Go and do some paid work.

olive wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 2:42pm:

skippy. wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 2:36pm: How do you come up with that excuse? Because I understand she cant see into  the future and predict what will happen, only an idiot or a fortune teller could write such nonsense, which one are you? ................................ So you can't answer my question? Just say so. Your argument is nonsense. Go and do some paid work.

What question , why do you think the PM can see into the future? yes of course my argument is stupid everyone expects the PM knew it would be a hung parliament, oh that's right, no they don't ,just the rusted on Lib morons who are still bitter because Abbott isn't PM. I'd tell you to get a job too, but no one would employ someone with such a limited capacity to think for them self, so it would be a waste of time,deary.
now what happened to that other mellie sock???actually that one could be a lisa sock ;D ;D ;D

skippy. wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 2:48pm:

olive wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 2:42pm: skippy. wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 2:36pm: How do you come up with that excuse? Because I understand she cant see into  the future and predict what will happen, only an idiot or a fortune teller could write such nonsense, which one are you? ................................ So you can't answer my question? Just say so. Your argument is nonsense. Go and do some paid work. What question , why do you think the PM can see into the future? yes of course my argument is stupid everyone expects the PM knew it would be a hung parliament, oh that's right, no they don't ,just the rusted on Lib morons who are still bitter because Abbott isn't PM. I'd tell you to get a job too, but no one would employ someone with such a limited capacity to think for them self, so it would be a waste of time,deary. now what happened to that other mellie sock???actually that one could be a lisa sock ;D ;D ;D

.................................

So you think that Julia Gillard is quite within her rights to tell the people (ALL the people) that she would NOT bring in a Carbon Tax. Just because she needed the Greens to get over the line is not justification for bringing in this abomination of a tax which she promised NOT to do. It would have been better to put it again to the voters and see what they thought. But Gillard, as well as being a liar, is a craven coward. Voters do NOT like to be deceived. This marrying up with the Greens on this issue will not be forgotten at the next election. Goodbye Julia and goodbye Labor for a looooonng time. That, as cods has stated, will be Karma.

Equitist wrote on Nov 13^th, 2011 at 4:52pm:

log_me_in wrote on Nov 13th, 2011 at 4:46pm: ...average Australian nuclear family. It's probably something Juliar longs for but is unable to have because of her inability to form lasting relationships LOL...more projections from the right...

LOL, you have selected 1 photo from election night drop-kick.

Ever think they look a bit sullen because he just failed to pull off the greatest electoral back-flip in ages?

Not projecting are you? PMSL, blind hypocrisy much.

Love to see a photo of Therese near O’Lemon when they knifed the dud. Mr 75% sobbing as his colleges draw the knives from his back and wipe off the blood.

olive wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 2:55pm:

skippy. wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 2:48pm: olive wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 2:42pm: skippy. wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 2:36pm: How do you come up with that excuse? Because I understand she cant see into  the future and predict what will happen, only an idiot or a fortune teller could write such nonsense, which one are you? ................................ So you can't answer my question? Just say so. Your argument is nonsense. Go and do some paid work. What question , why do you think the PM can see into the future? yes of course my argument is stupid everyone expects the PM knew it would be a hung parliament, oh that's right, no they don't ,just the rusted on Lib morons who are still bitter because Abbott isn't PM. I'd tell you to get a job too, but no one would employ someone with such a limited capacity to think for them self, so it would be a waste of time,deary. now what happened to that other mellie sock???actually that one could be a lisa sock ;D ;D ;D ................................. So you think that Julia Gillard is quite within her rights to tell the people (ALL the people) that she would NOT bring in a Carbon Tax. Just because she needed the Greens to get over the line is not justification for bringing in this abomination of a tax which she promised NOT to do. It would have been better to put it again to the voters and see what they thought. But Gillard, as well as being a liar, is a craven coward. Voters do NOT like to be deceived. This marrying up with the Greens on this issue will not be forgotten at the next election. Goodbye Julia and goodbye Labor for a looooonng time. That, as cods has stated, will be Karma.

Time will tell if you are right, tho with phony tony in charge of the Libs I think Gillard has a huge chance at re election, a rusted on Lib like you will always bitch about Labor,so your thoughts are irrelevant in this case.

skippy. wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 3:01pm:

olive wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 2:55pm: skippy. wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 2:48pm: olive wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 2:42pm: skippy. wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 2:36pm: How do you come up with that excuse? Because I understand she cant see into  the future and predict what will happen, only an idiot or a fortune teller could write such nonsense, which one are you? ................................ So you can't answer my question? Just say so. Your argument is nonsense. Go and do some paid work. What question , why do you think the PM can see into the future? yes of course my argument is stupid everyone expects the PM knew it would be a hung parliament, oh that's right, no they don't ,just the rusted on Lib morons who are still bitter because Abbott isn't PM. I'd tell you to get a job too, but no one would employ someone with such a limited capacity to think for them self, so it would be a waste of time,deary. now what happened to that other mellie sock???actually that one could be a lisa sock ;D ;D ;D ................................. So you think that Julia Gillard is quite within her rights to tell the people (ALL the people) that she would NOT bring in a Carbon Tax. Just because she needed the Greens to get over the line is not justification for bringing in this abomination of a tax which she promised NOT to do. It would have been better to put it again to the voters and see what they thought. But Gillard, as well as being a liar, is a craven coward. Voters do NOT like to be deceived. This marrying up with the Greens on this issue will not be forgotten at the next election. Goodbye Julia and goodbye Labor for a looooonng time. That, as cods has stated, will be Karma. Time will tell if you are right, tho with phony tony in charge of the Libs I think Gillard has a huge chance at re election, a rusted on Lib like you will always bitch about Labor,so your thoughts are irrelevant in this case.

.................

While ever Julia Gillard leads Labor they have NO chance. Rudd would have no chance either.  People have long memories and will never forget this absolute betrayal of trust. That, despite all your huffing and puffing, skip, is what will sink the Labor Party....no matter who is at its head at the next election.

Rudd would have no chance either.
Well if the same polls that say Abbott will beat Gillard are to be believed Rudd has every chance, in fact Rudd would beat Abbott. But you of course have selective poll belief syndrome, you believe the ones that suit you and ignore the ones that dont, even tho they are produced by the very same people. This condition can only be cured by removing the rusted on genes that you carry.

skippy. wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 3:13pm:

Rudd would have no chance either. Well if the same polls that say Abbott will beat Gillard are to be believed Rudd has every chance, in fact Rudd would beat Abbott. But you of course have selective poll belief syndrome, you believe the ones that suit you and ignore the ones that dont, even tho they are produced by the very same people. This condition can only be cured by removing the rusted on genes that you carry.

.................

When it comes to the gene pool, skip, I don't think you need worry about mine.....be more concerned about your own.

olive wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 3:18pm:

skippy. wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 3:13pm: Rudd would have no chance either. Well if the same polls that say Abbott will beat Gillard are to be believed Rudd has every chance, in fact Rudd would beat Abbott. But you of course have selective poll belief syndrome, you believe the ones that suit you and ignore the ones that dont, even tho they are produced by the very same people. This condition can only be cured by removing the rusted on genes that you carry. ................. When it comes to the gene pool, skip, I don't think you need worry about mine.....be more concerned about your own.

OK mel ;D......... skip......... lol ;D

Yep..theres no such thing as carbon pollution or man made climate change..blah blah blah blah blah

skippy. wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 3:19pm:

olive wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 3:18pm: skippy. wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 3:13pm: Rudd would have no chance either. Well if the same polls that say Abbott will beat Gillard are to be believed Rudd has every chance, in fact Rudd would beat Abbott. But you of course have selective poll belief syndrome, you believe the ones that suit you and ignore the ones that dont, even tho they are produced by the very same people. This condition can only be cured by removing the rusted on genes that you carry. ................. When it comes to the gene pool, skip, I don't think you need worry about mine.....be more concerned about your own. OK mel ;D......... skip......... lol ;D

....................

que?

You are confusing me with someone else again? What would you prefer to be called? I thought "skip" was ok. Mel? Indeed? Why don't you ask by a private message to one of the mods if I am indeed this person. You seem to think that everyone who is opposed to your viewpoint is one multi-personality disorder individual. As I have said before, ad nauseum, my only id is "Olive". But if you can't argue coherently, then you always fall back on this old nonsense, I notice. Do yourself a favour, "Skip", check out YOUR gene pool....oh...on second thoughts, be careful, you might find it a bit shallow..... ::)

yea yea, what ever..... skip....... ok........ ;D

olive wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 2:32pm:

How do you come up with that excuse?

Looks more like a statment of fact than an excuse.


olive wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 2:32pm:

Either she wasn't interested in bringing in a Carbon Tax, as she stated, or she WAS, which is what actually happened.

Labor were always going to introduce a price on carbon - A fixed price is a prise on carbon. A tax was also Tony Abbotts prefered position if he were going to price carbon.

Clearly her intention was to go directly to a trading scheme - the effective difference to anybody is zero.



olive wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 2:32pm:

She should have stuck by her conviction, whether a hung parliament or not, as now it looks as if the Greens are actually running the show.

Only to those who want to see it that way because of their political bias.



olive wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 2:32pm:

She may not have won the election if she had not fallen in with their wishes, but she could have retained some honour in her word.

Had she never made the commitment she possibly would have won the election outright - the silly promise only cost her votes.

olive wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 2:13pm:

John Howard DID go to an election saying there would be a GST if he was elected.

He also went to an election with a commitment to never ever introduce a GST and without that prior commitment he would have never ever been PM.

He was campaigning for a GST in breach of his promise in the same term where the promise applied.

Dnarever wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 3:45pm:

olive wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 2:13pm: John Howard DID go to an election saying there would be a GST if he was elected. He also went to an election with a commitment to never ever introduce a GST and without that prior commitment he would have never ever been PM. He was campaigning for a GST in breach of his promise in the same term where the promise applied.

Its also interesting to note the GST we have is not what Howard took to the election at all.

olive wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 2:55pm:

. Just because she needed the Greens to get over the line is not justification for bringing in this abomination of a tax which she promised NOT to do.

This abomination of a tax was Tony Abbott and the Liberals prefered option only a few months earlier?

adelcrow wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 3:23pm:

Yep..theres no such thing as carbon pollution or man made climate change..blah blah blah blah blah

...............

DNA I hope you are not, by some back door way, trying to insinuate that I do not believe in climate change? I have never said that. I believe that the climate has always changed, is changing, and always will and also.....take note....I believe that humans contribute in some way.

This debate is about the Carbon Tax. A Carbon Tax that will NEVER change the climate but will have a huge effect on our industry and our small businesses. Why did Gillard and co....if they are so concerned about Aussie companies' emissions....why did they not offer energy producers huge tax reductions to explore and find  "alternate" energy? Going about it the way they have is simply not going to work. Which is why other energy producing countries are not following suit.

olive wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 4:11pm:

adelcrow wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 3:23pm: Yep..theres no such thing as carbon pollution or man made climate change..blah blah blah blah blah ............... DNA I hope you are not, by some back door way, trying to insinuate that I do not believe in climate change? I have never said that. I believe that the climate has always changed, is changing, and always will and also.....take note....I believe that humans contribute in some way. This debate is about the Carbon Tax. A Carbon Tax that will NEVER change the climate but will have a huge effect on our industry and our small businesses. Why did Gillard and co....if they are so concerned about Aussie companies' emissions....why did they not offer energy producers huge tax reductions to explore and find  "alternate" energy? Going about it the way they have is simply not going to work. Which is why other energy producing countries are not following suit.

Great idea!

So the energy producers will fiddle about with a couple of el-cheapo projects and pocket the huge tax reductions. Of course, the government would have to tax you and I to fund those tax cuts. In the end, nothing gets produced and we're all out of pocket.

Great plan.  :o

OH HANG ON! That's Tony's plan!!  :D :D

olive wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 3:31pm:

skippy. wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 3:19pm: olive wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 3:18pm: skippy. wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 3:13pm: Rudd would have no chance either. Well if the same polls that say Abbott will beat Gillard are to be believed Rudd has every chance, in fact Rudd would beat Abbott. But you of course have selective poll belief syndrome, you believe the ones that suit you and ignore the ones that dont, even tho they are produced by the very same people. This condition can only be cured by removing the rusted on genes that you carry. ................. When it comes to the gene pool, skip, I don't think you need worry about mine.....be more concerned about your own. OK mel ;D......... skip......... lol ;D .................... que? You are confusing me with someone else again? What would you prefer to be called? I thought "skip" was ok. Mel? Indeed? Why don't you ask by a private message to one of the mods if I am indeed this person. You seem to think that everyone who is opposed to your viewpoint is one multi-personality disorder individual. As I have said before, ad nauseum, my only id is "Olive". But if you can't argue coherently, then you always fall back on this old nonsense, I notice. Do yourself a favour, "Skip", check out YOUR gene pool....oh...on second thoughts, be careful, you might find it a bit shallow..... ::)

I can attest to that olive was also on yahoo with the likes of myself under the id evilo... olive spelt backwards for those semi illiterates on here.

 we have no need for other IDs we are quite comfortable with what we say on these forums..right olive??...

I do feel those that harp on endlessly about someone being someone else... are deadset insecure.and can see threats coming from all angles..'Oh Mods save me I am being picked on"...

I guess talking about socks saves them from having to debate something at the end of the day.

I personally couldnt give a sh!t if peter paul and mary.. turned out to be huey louy and dewy... who cares???????

Gist wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 4:48pm:

olive wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 4:11pm: adelcrow wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 3:23pm: Yep..theres no such thing as carbon pollution or man made climate change..blah blah blah blah blah ............... DNA I hope you are not, by some back door way, trying to insinuate that I do not believe in climate change? I have never said that. I believe that the climate has always changed, is changing, and always will and also.....take note....I believe that humans contribute in some way. This debate is about the Carbon Tax. A Carbon Tax that will NEVER change the climate but will have a huge effect on our industry and our small businesses. Why did Gillard and co....if they are so concerned about Aussie companies' emissions....why did they not offer energy producers huge tax reductions to explore and find  "alternate" energy? Going about it the way they have is simply not going to work. Which is why other energy producing countries are not following suit. Great idea! So the energy producers will fiddle about with a couple of el-cheapo projects and pocket the huge tax reductions. Of course, the government would have to tax you and I to fund those tax cuts. In the end, nothing gets produced and we're all out of pocket. Great plan.  :o OH HANG ON! That's Tony's plan!!  :D :D

oh hang on... what the govt giveth the govt can take away...


a bit like carbon credits... only it in taxes instead..

I am under the impression all RE is sooooooooooo much cheaper no one paying power bills very soon..

there will be no power stations to speak of isnt that right?????

It's actually free to take all you want, if you are clever enough to harvest it.

cods wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 4:54pm:

oh hang on... what the govt giveth the govt can take away... a bit like carbon credits... only it in taxes instead.. I am under the impression all RE is sooooooooooo much cheaper no one paying power bills very soon.. there will be no power stations to speak of isnt that right?????

What has any of that got to do with olive's plan? Or Tony's??

Have you got a plan that'll successfully eliminate power stations? There's lots of people would be interested.

Dr Brown wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 5:03pm:

It's actually free to take all you want, if you are clever enough to harvest it.

what about the upfront costs or dont they come into it?

Gist wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 5:08pm:

cods wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 4:54pm: oh hang on... what the govt giveth the govt can take away... a bit like carbon credits... only it in taxes instead.. I am under the impression all RE is sooooooooooo much cheaper no one paying power bills very soon.. there will be no power stations to speak of isnt that right????? What has any of that got to do with olive's plan? Or Tony's?? Have you got a plan that'll successfully eliminate power stations? There's lots of people would be interested.

huhummmmmmm I thought that was the GREAT IDEA behind CARBON TAX>.. do away with emmission making industry......NO????????


are we not on the path of everything RE. windmills and ugly solar panels..galore.solar plastic cars ...........where did I get that idea from?????

What do up front costs have to do with it?

Ever heard of economies of scale?

The infrastructure pays for itself in the long term and the energy is always free to take.

Enjoy.

cods wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 5:14pm:

Gist wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 5:08pm: cods wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 4:54pm: oh hang on... what the govt giveth the govt can take away... a bit like carbon credits... only it in taxes instead.. I am under the impression all RE is sooooooooooo much cheaper no one paying power bills very soon.. there will be no power stations to speak of isnt that right????? What has any of that got to do with olive's plan? Or Tony's?? Have you got a plan that'll successfully eliminate power stations? There's lots of people would be interested. huhummmmmmm I thought that was the GREAT IDEA behind CARBON TAX>.. do away with emmission making industry......NO???????? are we not on the path of everything RE. windmills and ugly solar panels..galore.solar plastic cars ...........where did I get that idea from?????

You are obsolete, please hand yourself in at the nearest recycling centre.

cods wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 5:14pm:

huhummmmmmm I thought that was the GREAT IDEA behind CARBON TAX>.. do away with emmission making industry......NO???????? are we not on the path of everything RE. windmills and ugly solar panels..galore.solar plastic cars ...........where did I get that idea from?????

Excellent, you've got it right. Glad to see we're managing to educate you.

The thing though is that the tax has to be implemented before anyone has any money to start researching any thing. None of it kicks off until July next year. Remember?

This could all have been rolling by now if it hadn't been for the Libs backflip.

Gist wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 4:48pm:

olive wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 4:11pm: adelcrow wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 3:23pm: Yep..theres no such thing as carbon pollution or man made climate change..blah blah blah blah blah ............... DNA I hope you are not, by some back door way, trying to insinuate that I do not believe in climate change? I have never said that. I believe that the climate has always changed, is changing, and always will and also.....take note....I believe that humans contribute in some way. This debate is about the Carbon Tax. A Carbon Tax that will NEVER change the climate but will have a huge effect on our industry and our small businesses. Why did Gillard and co....if they are so concerned about Aussie companies' emissions....why did they not offer energy producers huge tax reductions to explore and find  "alternate" energy? Going about it the way they have is simply not going to work. Which is why other energy producing countries are not following suit. Great idea! So the energy producers will fiddle about with a couple of el-cheapo projects and pocket the huge tax reductions. Of course, the government would have to tax you and I to fund those tax cuts. In the end, nothing gets produced and we're all out of pocket. Great plan.  :o OH HANG ON! That's Tony's plan!!  :D :D

......

And a Carbon Tax on Australians will reduce emissions by HOW MUCH????? Do YOU know where the tax will go that is to go overseas???? Will Australians be happy to pay more and more carbon tax every year while their groceries, heating, electricity, fuel etc becomes more and more expensive? Many Aussies have the seat out of their pants already.

No-one says that the Carbon Tax on Aussies will make one iota of difference to the atmosphere. This is the whole nonsense of the matter.

Somehow the government seems to think that Australia leads the way. Even Barrack Obama says it is a forward and bold move.....he didn't say the US would be doing it.....nooooo....too bold by far for the rest of the world....and they are much smarter than Gillard....they don't want to sell their countries down the toilet.

olive wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 7:10pm:

And a Carbon Tax on Australians will reduce emissions by HOW MUCH????? Do YOU know where the tax will go that is to go overseas???? Will Australians be happy to pay more and more carbon tax every year while their groceries, heating, electricity, fuel etc becomes more and more expensive? Many Aussies have the seat out of their pants already. No-one says that the Carbon Tax on Aussies will make one iota of difference to the atmosphere. This is the whole nonsense of the matter. Somehow the government seems to think that Australia leads the way. Even Barrack Obama says it is a forward and bold move.....he didn't say the US would be doing it.....nooooo....too bold by far for the rest of the world....and they are much smarter than Gillard....they don't want to sell their countries down the toilet.

Deary gracious me! Just when I thought we had you educated, cods, here you go spouting the same stuff again. Dementia?

olive wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 4:11pm:

DNA I hope you are not, by some back door way, trying to insinuate that I do not believe in climate change? I have never said that. I believe that the climate has always changed, is changing, and always will and also.....take note....I believe that humans contribute in some way. This debate is about the Carbon Tax.

I never even considered the point or had any opinion on your belief in that area but you should be carefull about that back door or a few refugees may get in.

Gist wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 7:27pm:

olive wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 7:10pm: And a Carbon Tax on Australians will reduce emissions by HOW MUCH????? Do YOU know where the tax will go that is to go overseas???? Will Australians be happy to pay more and more carbon tax every year while their groceries, heating, electricity, fuel etc becomes more and more expensive? Many Aussies have the seat out of their pants already. No-one says that the Carbon Tax on Aussies will make one iota of difference to the atmosphere. This is the whole nonsense of the matter. Somehow the government seems to think that Australia leads the way. Even Barrack Obama says it is a forward and bold move.....he didn't say the US would be doing it.....nooooo....too bold by far for the rest of the world....and they are much smarter than Gillard....they don't want to sell their countries down the toilet. Deary gracious me! Just when I thought we had you educated, cods, here you go spouting the same stuff again. Dementia?

.......

No answers then, to the question of how much (or how LITTLE) the CT will reduce emissions. Typical non-answer as usual...typical mixing up of id's ....typical slinging off because there is a feeling of inadequacy due to not being able to  answer the most important question. HOW MUCH will it reduce emissions....because the answer is that the amount is......."negligible".

Exactly what I have come to expect. Nothing new here.

Dnarever wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 7:42pm:

olive wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 4:11pm: DNA I hope you are not, by some back door way, trying to insinuate that I do not believe in climate change? I have never said that. I believe that the climate has always changed, is changing, and always will and also.....take note....I believe that humans contribute in some way. This debate is about the Carbon Tax. I never even considered the point or had any opinion on your belief in that area but you should be carefull about that back door or a few refugees may get in.

.....

Lol....too late....the back door has been open since 2008...but glad you don't have preconceived ideas about me.......:)

cods wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 4:50pm:

olive wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 3:31pm: skippy. wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 3:19pm: olive wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 3:18pm: skippy. wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 3:13pm: Rudd would have no chance either. Well if the same polls that say Abbott will beat Gillard are to be believed Rudd has every chance, in fact Rudd would beat Abbott. But you of course have selective poll belief syndrome, you believe the ones that suit you and ignore the ones that dont, even tho they are produced by the very same people. This condition can only be cured by removing the rusted on genes that you carry. ................. When it comes to the gene pool, skip, I don't think you need worry about mine.....be more concerned about your own. OK mel ;D......... skip......... lol ;D .................... que? You are confusing me with someone else again? What would you prefer to be called? I thought "skip" was ok. Mel? Indeed? Why don't you ask by a private message to one of the mods if I am indeed this person. You seem to think that everyone who is opposed to your viewpoint is one multi-personality disorder individual. As I have said before, ad nauseum, my only id is "Olive". But if you can't argue coherently, then you always fall back on this old nonsense, I notice. Do yourself a favour, "Skip", check out YOUR gene pool....oh...on second thoughts, be careful, you might find it a bit shallow..... ::) I can attest to that olive was also on yahoo with the likes of myself under the id evilo... olive spelt backwards for those semi illiterates on here.  we have no need for other IDs we are quite comfortable with what we say on these forums..right olive??... I do feel those that harp on endlessly about someone being someone else... are deadset insecure.and can see threats coming from all angles..'Oh Mods save me I am being picked on"... I guess talking about socks saves them from having to debate something at the end of the day. I personally couldnt give a sh!t if peter paul and mary.. turned out to be huey louy and dewy... who cares???????

...................................

Too right, cods. Why put up heaps of other id's. One is all I have time for....but it would explain why some of those other people's posts are often unintelligible.....it must get confusing!!!

olive wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 7:50pm:

No answers then, to the question of how much (or how LITTLE) the CT will reduce emissions. Typical non-answer as usual...typical mixing up of id's ....typical slinging off because there is a feeling of inadequacy due to not being able to  answer the most important question. HOW MUCH will it reduce emissions....because the answer is that the amount is......."negligible". Exactly what I have come to expect. Nothing new here.

If we reduce it by 50% we will then only be producing about 100% more than our fair share.

As John Howard said:


Quote:

"Australia will continue to lead internationally on climate change, globally and in the Asia-Pacific region," he told a Liberal Party federal council meeting two days after unveiling his ETS blueprint. "This will be a world-class emissions trading system more comprehensive, more rigorously grounded in economics, and with better governance than anything in Europe." In an address to the Melbourne Press Club a month later, Howard said: "In the years to come it will provide a model for other nations to follow. "Being among the first movers on carbon trading in this region will bring new opportunities and we intend to grasp them." And there was this exchange at a news conference in the run-up to the election that saw him defeated by Kevin Rudd. Journalist: "Haven't you locked Australia into an emissions trading scheme in the next term?" Howard: "Yes, I have." Journalist: "Regardless of what our trading competitors do?" Howard: "Yes, but that is precisely the sort of contribution we should make."

being able to  answer the most important question

In my view the least important question.

In my view the argument that us reducing our emission levels will not have a huge impact is not an good excuse to just keep increasing our output - that is not going to help at all - we can't fix it so therefore we should just see how much worse we can make it?


Sorry but that is just not part of any solution.

olive wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 8:04pm:

cods wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 4:50pm:  we have no need for other IDs we are quite comfortable with what we say on these forums..right olive??... ................................... Too right, cods. Why put up heaps of other id's. One is all I have time for....but it would explain why some of those other people's posts are often unintelligible.....it must get confusing!!!

I don't get all the claims that everyone is somebody else, in my view 95% minimum are who they claim to be.

Also what does it matter - most of the time I reply to the content who posted it is of little relevance - more important is if it’s making a strong case or not.

Changing names is not going to improve the content of the debate; I see no point in doing it and don't particularly care anyway.

Dnarever wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 8:14pm:

olive wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 7:50pm: No answers then, to the question of how much (or how LITTLE) the CT will reduce emissions. Typical non-answer as usual...typical mixing up of id's ....typical slinging off because there is a feeling of inadequacy due to not being able to  answer the most important question. HOW MUCH will it reduce emissions....because the answer is that the amount is......."negligible". Exactly what I have come to expect. Nothing new here. If we reduce it by 50% we will then only be producing about 100% more than our fair share. As John Howard said: Quote: "Australia will continue to lead internationally on climate change, globally and in the Asia-Pacific region," he told a Liberal Party federal council meeting two days after unveiling his ETS blueprint. "This will be a world-class emissions trading system more comprehensive, more rigorously grounded in economics, and with better governance than anything in Europe." In an address to the Melbourne Press Club a month later, Howard said: "In the years to come it will provide a model for other nations to follow. "Being among the first movers on carbon trading in this region will bring new opportunities and we intend to grasp them." And there was this exchange at a news conference in the run-up to the election that saw him defeated by Kevin Rudd. Journalist: "Haven't you locked Australia into an emissions trading scheme in the next term?" Howard: "Yes, I have." Journalist: "Regardless of what our trading competitors do?" Howard: "Yes, but that is precisely the sort of contribution we should make." being able to  answer the most important question In my view the least important question. In my view the argument that us reducing our emission levels will not have a huge impact is not an good excuse to just keep increasing our output - that is not going to help at all - we can't fix it so therefore we should just see how much worse we can make it? Sorry but that is just not part of any solution.

......

DNA, I agree, as do most other people against the Carbon Tax, that we must alter our bad habits and our denigration of Mother Earth. We simply do not believe that a Carbon Tax will, in any way at all, do anything to curb these excesses. That is the whole point. That is why most Australians are angry that they didn't get the chance to vote on this CT. That is why other countries have gone cold on this so-called "solution". With intelligence and far more consultation with those who supply our needs, there must be other ways. This is just a way for the govt to take the cream off the top of the pie. It has no hope of achieving what, I believe, most people want...certainly China is negating any contribution we, as a nation may make. That makes a mockery of the whole issue...especially as JG is willing to mine our coal to sell it to people who are stockpiling it for their future use. JG, if she was a woman of conviction....would not be mining it at all...especially to sell to such high polluters. Now she finds it ok to sell our uranium to India....."because it is clean energy"....Well done, Julia....Finally you see the light.

.

olive wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 8:29pm:

DNA, I agree, as do most other people against the Carbon Tax, that we must alter our bad habits and our denigration of Mother Earth. We simply do not believe that a Carbon Tax will, in any way at all, do anything to curb these excesses. That is the whole point. .

At the moment there is only one plan on the table to do anything, I agree its not perfect and nobody thinks it is, it is still by far the best option available. The conservatives dithered and blundered around by and large ignoring the issue for over a decade and look pretty keen to go back to the same position if given the chance.

It is far from ideal but also by far the best option we have available.

I personally think that the fixed price is as Tony Abbott said a better option than a trading scheme.

Dnarever wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 8:44pm:

olive wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 8:29pm: DNA, I agree, as do most other people against the Carbon Tax, that we must alter our bad habits and our denigration of Mother Earth. We simply do not believe that a Carbon Tax will, in any way at all, do anything to curb these excesses. That is the whole point. . At the moment there is only one plan on the table to do anything, I agree its not perfect and nobody thinks it is, it is still by far the best option available. The conservatives dithered and blundered around by and large ignoring the issue for over a decade and look pretty keen to go back to the same position if given the chance. It is far from ideal but also by far the best option we have available. I personally think that the fixed price is as Tony Abbott said a better option than a trading scheme.

.....

Fixed price is indeed a better option than trading scheme. I agree with you. But this govt is not good at getting things right and the fact that we are to start with a price that is approx double what other countries (some of which are going broke) are doing, seems ludicrous. While ever the other coal producing countries are backpeddling, there is need of another solution entirely. While ever there is not a consensus between ALL countries, this is not a good solution though...it is simply wealth redistribution....and Australians will be the losers. No one gains when they are "compensated" for paying higher energy costs....how will that cause them to rein in their excesses...?....the rich, who will be largely unaffected, will continue to run up big power bills because they can afford to....the poor will be the ones who hurt the most as each year the tax will need to be raised and the costs will continue to rise. The polluting companies will still pollute...they will just pay more for it....and pass on the costs to the public.

There is surely another solution.

Juliar Gillard should be investigated for corruption, conspiracy, deception and misleading the Parliament and the Australian people.  Her corruption and deception is simply too blatant to let slide.  Todays news about a US military build up in the north ahead of an Asian war and yesterdays yellow cake back flip are the latest in a string of policy changes the Australian people have not been privy to in the decision making.

corporate_whitey wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 9:27pm:

Juliar Gillard should be investigated for corruption, conspiracy, deception and misleading the Parliament and the Australian people.  Her corruption and deception is simply too blatant to let slide.  Todays news about a US military build up in the north ahead of an Asian war and yesterdays yellow cake back flip are the latest in a string of policy changes the Australian people have not been privy to in the decision making.

Not PRIVY to???
Maybe you didn't get the memo.
Maybe you were in the Privy.

Next time a government needs to make a decision I am sure she will drop in and discuss it with you personally, who knows, she may hold the opinion of the lunatic right in very high esteem.

corporate_whitey wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 9:27pm:

Juliar Gillard should be investigated for corruption, conspiracy, deception and misleading the Parliament and the Australian people.  Her corruption and deception is simply too blatant to let slide.  Todays news about a US military build up in the north ahead of an Asian war and yesterdays yellow cake back flip are the latest in a string of policy changes the Australian people have not been privy to in the decision making.

......

Rudd was the one who put the kybosh on the sale of uranium to India. Now JG is overturning that decision....which she was part of when KR was the boss....
Interesting, isn't it? Never a dull moment with Julia....you never know which way she will face next....
However, this time I think she has made the right decision.
Can't help but wonder how KR feels about it though....mmm?

JuLIAR is the lunatic right - no leftist would agree to a US military build up in Auastralia, espouse the kind of irrational China paranoia coming out of Canberra or the controlled media or over turn the ban on the sale of yellow cake.  Lets not kid ourselves on who is far right here - JuLIAR is a far right winger who has deliberately deceived the Australian people on her true values and intent with extreme malice.  She is militarizing this nation for an illegal war of aggression in Asia.  Juliar has lied blatantly throughout her career as to her true extremist far right political persuasions.  And yes we the Australias people have a right to better than this corruption.

Yankee GO HOME

Gist wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 5:19pm:

cods wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 5:14pm: huhummmmmmm I thought that was the GREAT IDEA behind CARBON TAX>.. do away with emmission making industry......NO???????? are we not on the path of everything RE. windmills and ugly solar panels..galore.solar plastic cars ...........where did I get that idea from????? Excellent, you've got it right. Glad to see we're managing to educate you. The thing though is that the tax has to be implemented before anyone has any money to start researching any thing. None of it kicks off until July next year. Remember? This could all have been rolling by now if it hadn't been for the Libs backflip.

really as it was such a matter of life and death in 2008.... since then we have had the ETS that never was,. Copenhagen where they just about all made fools of themselves.. now we have the great debate every year in a far flung nation... and this year we are sending 46 public bloody servants.. at something like the cost of $500.000 to another talkfest that will prove nothing and solve nothing. in Durban..what a pity they didnt choose Somalia where they could see first hand some real GW..

but of course CARBON TAX the saviour of the globe.. the globe will stop warming.... when and how well we will never know will we??.

corporate_whitey wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 10:00pm:

JuLIAR is the lunatic right - no leftist would agree to a US military build up in Auastralia, espouse the kind of irrational China paranoia coming out of Canberra or the controlled media or over turn the ban on the sale of yellow cake.  Lets not kid ourselves on who is far right here - JuLIAR is a far right winger who has deliberately deceived the Australian people on her true values and intent with extreme malice.  She is militarizing this nation for an illegal war of aggression in Asia.  Juliar has lied blatantly throughout her career as to her true extremist far right political persuasions.  And yes we the Australias people have a right to better than this corruption. Yankee GO HOME

......

Read an article by Kevin Rudd in which he warns of a build up of power and armaments in China which should at least alert us all. After all, Kevin Rudd has strong connections with China. The fact that he wants us to upsize our Navy and strengthen our defence is interesting.

It is not a bad thing to have a powerful friend, as we do with the US, who are willing to train and exercise with our own military. IMHO.

There is no harm in being prepared should any future conflict arise in our area.

olive wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 10:13pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 10:00pm: JuLIAR is the lunatic right - no leftist would agree to a US military build up in Auastralia, espouse the kind of irrational China paranoia coming out of Canberra or the controlled media or over turn the ban on the sale of yellow cake.  Lets not kid ourselves on who is far right here - JuLIAR is a far right winger who has deliberately deceived the Australian people on her true values and intent with extreme malice.  She is militarizing this nation for an illegal war of aggression in Asia.  Juliar has lied blatantly throughout her career as to her true extremist far right political persuasions.  And yes we the Australias people have a right to better than this corruption. Yankee GO HOME ...... Read an article by Kevin Rudd in which he warns of a build up of power and armaments in China which should at least alert us all. After all, Kevin Rudd has strong connections with China. The fact that he wants us to upsize our Navy and strengthen our defence is interesting. It is not a bad thing to have a powerful friend, as we do with the US, who are willing to train and exercise with our own military. IMHO. There is no harm in being prepared should any future conflict arise in our area.

China and Indonesia have already voiced their disapproval...its provocative...we shall see wont we?...

what amuses me is the silence from the left and th greens in particular..on too front.. the fawning over Obama and the defence forces in Darwin..its remarkable how when the boots on the other foot there is no mudslinging.. or shouting in parliament..no cringing at the  kissing arses this time round.. its all touchy feely..and mooning from gillard and cronies... or should that be phonies..and the beaming from booby was positively sickening.

..no cringing at the  kissing arses this time round.. its all touchy feely..and mooning from gillard and cronies... or should that be phonies..and the beaming from booby was positively sickening
You've just done it ,and I bet 100 bucks you can't even recognise your hypocrisy.

cods wrote on Nov 17^th, 2011 at 12:47pm:

olive wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 10:13pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Nov 16th, 2011 at 10:00pm: JuLIAR is the lunatic right - no leftist would agree to a US military build up in Auastralia, espouse the kind of irrational China paranoia coming out of Canberra or the controlled media or over turn the ban on the sale of yellow cake.  Lets not kid ourselves on who is far right here - JuLIAR is a far right winger who has deliberately deceived the Australian people on her true values and intent with extreme malice.  She is militarizing this nation for an illegal war of aggression in Asia.  Juliar has lied blatantly throughout her career as to her true extremist far right political persuasions.  And yes we the Australias people have a right to better than this corruption. Yankee GO HOME ...... Read an article by Kevin Rudd in which he warns of a build up of power and armaments in China which should at least alert us all. After all, Kevin Rudd has strong connections with China. The fact that he wants us to upsize our Navy and strengthen our defence is interesting. It is not a bad thing to have a powerful friend, as we do with the US, who are willing to train and exercise with our own military. IMHO. There is no harm in being prepared should any future conflict arise in our area. China and Indonesia have already voiced their disapproval...its provocative...we shall see wont we?... what amuses me is the silence from the left and th greens in particular..on too front.. the fawning over Obama and the defence forces in Darwin..its remarkable how when the boots on the other foot there is no mudslinging.. or shouting in parliament..no cringing at the  kissing arses this time round.. its all touchy feely..and mooning from gillard and cronies... or should that be phonies..and the beaming from booby was positively sickening.

No silence from the left mate - you are just pretending you dont hear what we are saying - no armed US rapists on Australian soil - Yankee go home - FREE INDEPENDENT AUSTRALIA.....

GOOD GRIEF  -  what now??
About what precisely?????


But anyway...........

Hmmm yes INDONESIA has voiced it's displeasure, as has China, of course.

Since that initial response from Indonesia, the news has stuck to 'China' as the potential boogeyman that has generated this new Pacific power focus from the US.  (At least the limited coverage I've seen .. there may hav been one other mention I heard)
That makes no sense,..... as has been pointed out, the US have troops a whole lot closer to China than OZ, right now. ! Unless the Chinese are worried about losing our resources!! ;)

Thats the Red Herring.!! Yeah?

The fact that President Obama is now in Bali, does lead one to hope that they get told to pull their heads in.!!!!!!!

It is no secret that Indonesia has coveted Australia - all of Aus .... for a LONG time.  Very Lustily I might add.!!

The US cannot afford for Australia to fall any further to the Indonesians, ......and are telling the world, BUT particularly Indonesia- that it is NOT ON.!!

Yes - we will see.  An interesting , and unexpected (by me) move......am still thinking about possible consequences.

Our government has trained Indonesian soldiers, on Australian soil -  more fool they,, why??  I never did get it, cos I know appeasement  DOES NOT WORK.  It doesn't work,   and finally we have a Prime Minister who has faced the reality of our position - here in SE Asia, ... and has had the guts to go beyond anything former OZ pollies have, and THATS A FACT.  Just think of the cringing dog approach till now. I remember it.!!!!!!!!! :( >:(

Personally...... mm   .... I'm glad the US has come out strongly for Australia....  I think?? -  well let's face it, no way we few oz people could sustain a prolonged defence against attack from that direction. Not alone.
Who else COULD we turn to?    and realistically -  that is where the greatest threat to Australian sovereignty lies,  Not the US.  
While the US is still standing, I don't think we should reject this Pacific Power idea,.  
It would be very foolish.!