I have started this thread with the intention of bringing some information to Oz Politics members regarding Cannabis, it's medicinal and recreational use.

Mods there is a discussion going on in this thread, would you mind moving the Cannabis related posts from that thread here.

The war on drugs is not working, we need to address the problems as medical and not criminal issues (commercial quantities aside).

Portugal has led the way on the issue.

Let's discuss.

Why is it that most people would baulk at the idea of using Cannabis Sativa or Indica to assist and manage a number of conditions, yet happily munch down toxic chemicals derived from crude oil or opium derivatives?

Why is it they would happily deny someone the opportunity when it has zero impact on themselves?

Why is it as a nation, and indeed a global community, we continue to fight a never ending, un-winnable war when the funding could be better directed to curing or treating dread diseases, some derived from the very things we seek to eradicate?

Legalise it for both medicinal AND recreational use.

No debate needed.

Just DO IT!!

Illegality is the crime, not use.

Not that I expect the more clueless amog us to ever understand that....

I wouldn't advocate every man and his dog operating clandestine chemical laboratories in their back yards, but give everyone that want's it the opportunity to grow 2 to 4 plants and have sufficient personal supply for a month.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0163725802002528

Abstract
During the last decade, rigorous scientific methods have been applied to determine the effects of cannabinoids on nociceptive neurotransmission. Cannabinoids have been observed to markedly decrease signalling in specific neural pathways that transmit messages about pain. These effects were found to be due to the suppression of spinal and thalamic nociceptive neurons, and independent of any actions on either the motor system or sensory neurons that transmit messages related to non-nociceptive stimulation. Spinal, supraspinal, and peripheral sites of cannabinoid analgesia have been identified. The discovery of endocannabinoids raised the question of their natural role in pain. Multiple lines of evidence indicate that endocannabinoids serve naturally to suppress pain. While it is now clear that cannabinoids suppress nociceptive neurotransmission, more work is needed to establish the clinical utility of these compounds. The few human studies conducted to date produced mixed results, with more promising findings coming from studies of clinical pain as compared with experimental pain. The therapeutic potential of cannabinoids remains an important topic for future investigations.

Keywords: Cannabinoid; Pain; Analgesia; Receptor; Anandamide; Endocannabinoid

"…to date, there are no deaths known to have resulted from overdose of cannabis. (p. 128)"

qikvtec wrote on Nov 17^th, 2011 at 9:37pm:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0163725802002528 Abstract During the last decade, rigorous scientific methods have been applied to determine the effects of cannabinoids on nociceptive neurotransmission. Cannabinoids have been observed to markedly decrease signalling in specific neural pathways that transmit messages about pain. These effects were found to be due to the suppression of spinal and thalamic nociceptive neurons, and independent of any actions on either the motor system or sensory neurons that transmit messages related to non-nociceptive stimulation. Spinal, supraspinal, and peripheral sites of cannabinoid analgesia have been identified. The discovery of endocannabinoids raised the question of their natural role in pain. Multiple lines of evidence indicate that endocannabinoids serve naturally to suppress pain. While it is now clear that cannabinoids suppress nociceptive neurotransmission, more work is needed to establish the clinical utility of these compounds. The few human studies conducted to date produced mixed results, with more promising findings coming from studies of clinical pain as compared with experimental pain. The therapeutic potential of cannabinoids remains an important topic for future investigations. Keywords: Cannabinoid; Pain; Analgesia; Receptor; Anandamide; Endocannabinoid "…to date, there are no deaths known to have resulted from overdose of cannabis. (p. 128)"

You're using facts, Qikvtec.

Won't work on the 'antis'.

They know better.

Just ask them....

Lists of conditions known to be treated effectively with a harmless plant

Glaucoma
Period Pain
Anorexia
Cancer - if not directly related to tumour death, return of appetite, analgesia and deep restorative sleep.
Anxiety
Depression
General and severe pain
Epilepsy
MS
Parkinsons

The cost of policing this harmless yet incredibly valuable plant is enormous and could easily be better directed to studying the positive medical impacts, completely ignoring the obvious commercial benefits of fibre, oil and seeds.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1468-1331.2006.01639.x/full

Keywords:
cannabis-based medicine;multiple sclerosis;Sativex;spasticity
Symptoms relating to spasticity are common in multiple sclerosis (MS) and can be difficult to treat. We have investigated the efficacy, safety and tolerability of a standardized oromucosal whole plant cannabis-based medicine (CBM) containing Δ-9 tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and cannabidiol (CBD), upon spasticity in MS. A total of 189 subjects with definite MS and spasticity were randomized to receive daily doses of active preparation (n = 124) or placebo (n = 65) in a double blind study over 6 weeks. The primary endpoint was the change in a daily subject-recorded Numerical Rating Scale of spasticity. Secondary endpoints included a measure of spasticity (Ashworth Score) and a subjective measure of spasm. The primary efficacy analysis on the intention to treat (ITT) population (n = 184) showed the active preparation to be significantly superior (P = 0.048). Secondary efficacy measures were all in favour of active preparation but did not achieve statistical significance. The responder analysis favoured active preparation, 40% of subjects achieved >30% benefit (P = 0.014). Eight withdrawals were attributed to adverse events (AEs); six were on active preparation and two on placebo. We conclude that this CBM may represent a useful new agent for treatment of the symptomatic relief of spasticity in MS.

I have a close relative with multiple sclerosis.

Cannabis is the ONLY thing that eases his symptoms and allows him to function.

He's tried ALL the 'legal' drugs, they do diddly-squat.

And some of the side-effects are literally horrendous.

Kat wrote on Nov 17^th, 2011 at 9:55pm:

I have a close relative with multiple sclerosis. Cannabis is the ONLY thing that eases his symptoms and allows him to function. He's tried ALL the 'legal' drugs, they do diddly-squat.

I have lost too many friends to cancer, have another with Parkinsons, another with MS and 3 currently diagnosed with terminal cancer yet, as a result of the stigma know no way to make them aware of the properties of Cannabis and it's ability to assist in the pain management at the very least.

There is the crime.

I knew a man who smoked Marijuana for a chronic back problem, he swore by it. I have no problems with anyone growing a couple of plants for discreet personal therapeutic use. The mother of the teenagers next door probably wouldn't want her kids to know about it, that's why I say discreet.

I'm not informed enough to know if it should be legalised for recreational use, but it's probably no worse than tobacco and fast food, so I'd most likely vote yes if I was asked. Although state revenue would suffer, isn't that what it's all about?

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Nov 18^th, 2011 at 5:32am:

I knew a man who smoked Marijuana for a chronic back problem, he swore by it. I have no problems with anyone growing a couple of plants for discreet personal therapeutic use. The mother of the teenagers next door probably wouldn't want her kids to know about it, that's why I say discreet. I'm not informed enough to know if it should be legalised for recreational use, but it's probably no worse than tobacco and fast food, so I'd most likely vote yes if I was asked. Although state revenue would suffer, isn't that what it's all about?

Tobacco is responsible for 40 preventable deaths per DAY in Australia; there is not one recorded death directly attributable to Cannabis anywhere in the world.

State revenue would probably improve if Cannabis was legalised.

This paper indicates the cost of drug policing, prosecution and detention, on a national basis and concludes "Since about 1,500, 000 drug offences were prosecuted between 1976 and 2000 at an average cost per drug offence of $8500 in $1998A, this suggests that about $13 billion (in 1998 dollars) was spent on drug prohibition in the period between 1976 and 2000" or once you factor in inflation about AUD$15-17b!

How many hospitals would that build?

In 1998 the value of the Australian Cannabis market was estimated to be AUD$3.2b, (close to $4b in AUD$2011)

"During 25 years of the War on Drugs the value of the cannabis market increased by an astonishing 7500%"

"Because Prohibition is a supply side solution, all that is achieved by increasing the amount spent on drug law enforcement is to increase the price of the drug, so the value of the black market rises as a multiple of drug law enforcement. For example, if we reduced the amount spent on drug law enforcement to almost nothing (that is, if we abandoned prohibition), the price of drugs would fall to a level where the black market
would collapse. Like all products, the price of illicit drugs is determined by the costs involved in getting the drugs to market. In a situation of prohibition, most of that cost is created by drug law enforcement. "

"Conclusion

Between January 1976 and December 2000, Australian governments spent in the order of $13 billion prosecuting about one and a half million drug offences with the purpose of reducing drug use. However, drug prohibition did not reduce illicit drug use; instead it created an enormous black market, spiralling prison populations and a plague of heroin overdoses. The futility of prohibition was demonstrated even in “successes” like the marijuana drought of 1977, which created the conditions for the heroin plague, and the heroin drought of 2001, which led to the current methamphetamine plague. On the two occasions they have occurred, droughts have only acted as incubators for a new drug plague. Prohibition is a cure that makes the disease worse. It aims to stop the use of drugs, but instead, it glamorises drug use. It aims to morally improve the drug user, but instead, it corrupts society. Under the rule of morals improvers and “War on Drugs” advocates like Sir Joh Bjelke-Petersen and Sir Robert Askin, states like Queensland and New South Wales descended to levels of corruption that made their police forces a public scandal. Rather than being suppressed by the police, the drug trade thrived and became the lucrative fiefdom of corrupt detectives and their close
friends; so that, even though more people went to jail for drugs each year, every year there were more drugs on the street.

At the start of the War on Drugs, free market economist, Milton Friedman, declared that the failure of prohibition was inevitable because of corruption as officials succumbed to the lure of easy money: Said Friedman: “So long as large sums of money are involved—and they are bound to be if drugs are illegal—it is literally hopeless to expect to end the traffic or even to reduce seriously its scope.” 22

As this paper shows, money spent on drug prohibition simply acts as a multiplier for the drug market, increasing the amount available for perverting officials. It is this capacity of the black market to corrupt the gatekeepers that causes prohibition to fail year after year. The result is the entrenched system of corruption whereby the drug trade continues under the protection of corrupt police. "

__________________________________

Patients seeking relief from a number of ailments are forced to smoke Cannabis as it's the most cost effective means of inducing the benefits.  1 ounce of hash oil would provide sufficient pain relief for chronic pain for 2 weeks to a month, but it takes 1 pound of quality cannabis to produce that oil at a cost of between $3000-$4000.  

Of course it should be legalised, just about everyone does or has done it.

http://www.420magazine.com/gallery/data/1096/obama_smoking-weed1.jpg

If you're to have any chance of getting through to the 'antis' you've got to drop the 'harmless' line.

It might be effectively harmless to do every one in a while, but regular use is harmful - mostly to your level of motivation.  

But even with 100% honesty, most of 'em probably still won't listen.  

... wrote on Nov 18^th, 2011 at 10:06am:

If you're to have any chance of getting through to the 'antis' you've got to drop the 'harmless' line. It might be effectively harmless to do every one in a while, but regular use is harmful - mostly to your level of motivation.   But even with 100% honesty, most of 'em probably still won't listen.

Where is the evidence of harm?

qikvtec wrote on Nov 18^th, 2011 at 10:09am:

... wrote on Nov 18th, 2011 at 10:06am: If you're to have any chance of getting through to the 'antis' you've got to drop the 'harmless' line. It might be effectively harmless to do every one in a while, but regular use is harmful - mostly to your level of motivation.   But even with 100% honesty, most of 'em probably still won't listen.   Where is the evidence of harm?

Well it's a little tough to do a study on motivation levels, but anyone who regularly uses it knows that they're not as motivated to do things.  It's part of what makes it so fun.

You're really going to deny it?  Really?????

Quote:

Cannabis and motivation Does the ‘amotivational syndrome’ exist? Some people are concerned that prolonged and heavy cannabis use can cause a person to become withdrawn, lethargic, apathetic and unmotivated, a collection of symptoms that has often been referred to as the ‘amotivational syndrome’. Others claim that there is no such amotivational syndrome, claiming that a person who fits this description may in fact be showing signs of depression or chronic intoxication rather than any such syndrome. The only thing we can be sure about is that research into the existence of the ‘amotivational syndrome’ remains inconclusive. What does the research say? The evidence that exists for the ‘amotivational syndrome’ has been mainly collected from case-histories and observational reports of adult cannabis users. These reports suggested that chronic, heavy cannabis users can experience a narrowing of interests and can become apathetic and unable to carry out complex long-term plans, endure frustration or concentrate for long periods of time. Others have been observed to become introverted or exhibit a childlike regression so that they are totally focused on the present at the expense of long-term goals. While these reports represent the experience of some people, they fail to address how common the syndrome is or whether cannabis use in itself is the cause of these symptoms. Controlled studies have not been able to prove the existence of the syndrome, yet clinical observations suggest that cannabis users experience a loss of ambition and impaired school and work performance. We do know that heavy cannabis use is linked to poorer educational outcomes and increased school drop-out rates. There is also evidence that the use of cannabis can impact on attention and memory. At this point in time there has been no conclusive evidence to establish that heavy cannabis use causes an ‘amotivational syndrome’. The existence of such a syndrome remains uncertain because many cannabis users have other personal and lifestyle factors that may lead to a loss of motivation, such as unemployment, poverty, lower socioeconomic status or pre-existing personality or mental health issues.

It's a real phenomenon....but it shouldn't be banned on the basis that regular heavy use has (relatively minor) drawbacks -  Regular heavy use of anything has drawbacks.

I reckon that this is a classic chicken-egg scenario, whereby persons with certain personality predispositions and/or attention and information processing deficits choose certain types of drugs - including for self-medication!

Persons who have displayed ADD and ADHD symptoms in their childhood are disproportionately represented amongst those who have addictions - especially to nicotine, alcohol, cannabis, caffeine and pokies (even sugar)!

Never tried it myself - but I've had plenty of opportunities because I have had several friends and family members and numerous acquaintances who have smoked it regularly.

My brother and a close friend have been heavy pot smokers over many years - both of whom are in the gifted range of IQ and had some of the predispositions I mentioned above. Both are sociable and harmless.

My brother is 'skinny as' and has always been a hard worker - he is a niche carpenter and builder who employs several other tradies and has always managed to get up at the crack of dawn to work 6 long days a week.

My friend is of Mensa IQ and was clinically obese when we met in high school - he has an oppositional personality and has never been overly committed to his work and studies.

[edit]Oh, and I forgot to mention that he was raised in a devoutly Jewish household and is a staunch Liberal voter![/edit]

I believe that cannabis should be decriminalised and that its medicinal and other health potential ought to be fully investigated.

... wrote on Nov 18^th, 2011 at 10:12am:

qikvtec wrote on Nov 18th, 2011 at 10:09am: ... wrote on Nov 18th, 2011 at 10:06am: If you're to have any chance of getting through to the 'antis' you've got to drop the 'harmless' line. It might be effectively harmless to do every one in a while, but regular use is harmful - mostly to your level of motivation.   But even with 100% honesty, most of 'em probably still won't listen.   Where is the evidence of harm? Well it's a little tough to do a study on motivation levels, but anyone who regularly uses it knows that they're not as motivated to do things.  It's part of what makes it so fun. You're really going to deny it?  Really?????

That would depend on whether you have consumed Cannabis Indica or Cannabis Sativa and is in itself a symptom of the prohibition more than anything.  With prohibition comes a lack of control over which variety is being consumed; most dealers would only be concerned with profit and have scant or no regard for quality, therefore a user, medicinal or recreational, are not offered the option to choose.  A lack of motivation largely comes from the high concentration of CBD in Indica varieties, where as sativa, with it's high concentration of THC, is quite uplifting.

The known side effects are

Paranoia (ranging in severity and generally associated with short term use)
Appetite Stimulation
Dry Mouth - Aka Cotton Mouth or Pasties
Pupil Dilation
Mild Hypertension
In some cases mild hyperventilation
In some cases mild nausea (can be quite severe if significant quantities consumed)
Diarrhoea or Constipation
Short term memory loss (with consistent use)

Equitist wrote on Nov 18^th, 2011 at 11:35am:

Never tried it myself - but I've had plenty of opportunities because I have had several friends and family members and numerous acquaintances who have smoked it regularly. My brother and a close friend have been heavy pot smokers over many years - both of whom are in the gifted range of IQ and had some of the predispositions I mentioned above. Both are sociable and harmless. My brother is 'skinny as' and has always been a hard worker - he is a niche carpenter and builder who employs several other tradies and has always managed to get up at the crack of dawn to work 6 long days a week. My friend is of Mensa IQ and was clinically obese when we met in high school - he has an oppositional personality and has never been overly committed to his work and studies. I believe that cannabis should be decriminalised and that its medicinal and other health potential ought to be fully investigated.

A high childhood IQ may be linked to subsequent illegal drug use, particularly among women, suggests research published online in the Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health.

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2011-11-high-childhood-iq-linked-subsequent.html

qikvtec wrote on Nov 18^th, 2011 at 11:38am:

... wrote on Nov 18th, 2011 at 10:12am: qikvtec wrote on Nov 18th, 2011 at 10:09am: ... wrote on Nov 18th, 2011 at 10:06am: If you're to have any chance of getting through to the 'antis' you've got to drop the 'harmless' line. It might be effectively harmless to do every one in a while, but regular use is harmful - mostly to your level of motivation.   But even with 100% honesty, most of 'em probably still won't listen.   Where is the evidence of harm? Well it's a little tough to do a study on motivation levels, but anyone who regularly uses it knows that they're not as motivated to do things.  It's part of what makes it so fun. You're really going to deny it?  Really????? That would depend on whether you have consumed Cannabis Indica or Cannabis Sativa and is in itself a symptom of the prohibition more than anything.  With prohibition comes a lack of control over which variety is being consumed; most dealers would only be concerned with profit and have scant or no regard for quality, therefore a user, medicinal or recreational, are not offered the option to choose.  A lack of motivation largely comes from the high concentration of CBD in Indica varieties, where as sativa, with it's high concentration of THC, is quite uplifting. The known side effects are Paranoia (ranging in severity and generally associated with short term use) Appetite Stimulation Dry Mouth - Aka Cotton Mouth or Pasties Pupil Dilation Mild Hypertension In some cases mild hyperventilation In some cases mild nausea (can be quite severe if significant quantities consumed) Diarrhoea or Constipation Short term memory loss (with consistent use)

I didn't mean only while you're under the influence - I'm talking about a gradual, subtle, barely-perceptible-over-the-short-term sapping of the will to achieve.  Going about your regular business is easy enough, but when it comes to taking on new challenges, I think it has an effect.  Granted, this observation is based mainly on my own experience, but it's not an unusual or unique observation.

... wrote on Nov 18^th, 2011 at 11:45am:

qikvtec wrote on Nov 18th, 2011 at 11:38am: ... wrote on Nov 18th, 2011 at 10:12am: qikvtec wrote on Nov 18th, 2011 at 10:09am: ... wrote on Nov 18th, 2011 at 10:06am: If you're to have any chance of getting through to the 'antis' you've got to drop the 'harmless' line. It might be effectively harmless to do every one in a while, but regular use is harmful - mostly to your level of motivation.   But even with 100% honesty, most of 'em probably still won't listen.   Where is the evidence of harm? Well it's a little tough to do a study on motivation levels, but anyone who regularly uses it knows that they're not as motivated to do things.  It's part of what makes it so fun. You're really going to deny it?  Really????? That would depend on whether you have consumed Cannabis Indica or Cannabis Sativa and is in itself a symptom of the prohibition more than anything.  With prohibition comes a lack of control over which variety is being consumed; most dealers would only be concerned with profit and have scant or no regard for quality, therefore a user, medicinal or recreational, are not offered the option to choose.  A lack of motivation largely comes from the high concentration of CBD in Indica varieties, where as sativa, with it's high concentration of THC, is quite uplifting. The known side effects are Paranoia (ranging in severity and generally associated with short term use) Appetite Stimulation Dry Mouth - Aka Cotton Mouth or Pasties Pupil Dilation Mild Hypertension In some cases mild hyperventilation In some cases mild nausea (can be quite severe if significant quantities consumed) Diarrhoea or Constipation Short term memory loss (with consistent use) I didn't mean only while you're under the influence - I'm talking about a gradual, subtle, barely-perceptible-over-the-short-term sapping of the will to achieve.  Going about your regular business is easy enough, but when it comes to taking on new challenges, I think it has an effect.  Granted, this observation is based mainly on my own experience, but it's not an unusual or unique observation.

No it's not an unusual observation, but not entirely common all the same, and certainly not reason enough to carry on an un-winnable, frightfully expensive and fruitless war, which in itself exacerbates, not relieves, the problem.

I sit through countless meetings at the end of which I've nearly lost the will to live; I'd be happy for you to criminalise some of them.  ;)

... wrote on Nov 18^th, 2011 at 11:38am:

Equitist wrote on Nov 18th, 2011 at 11:35am: Never tried it myself - but I've had plenty of opportunities because I have had several friends and family members and numerous acquaintances who have smoked it regularly. My brother and a close friend have been heavy pot smokers over many years - both of whom are in the gifted range of IQ and had some of the predispositions I mentioned above. Both are sociable and harmless. My brother is 'skinny as' and has always been a hard worker - he is a niche carpenter and builder who employs several other tradies and has always managed to get up at the crack of dawn to work 6 long days a week. My friend is of Mensa IQ and was clinically obese when we met in high school - he has an oppositional personality and has never been overly committed to his work and studies. I believe that cannabis should be decriminalised and that its medicinal and other health potential ought to be fully investigated. A high childhood IQ may be linked to subsequent illegal drug use, particularly among women, suggests research published online in the Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health. http://medicalxpress.com/news/2011-11-high-childhood-iq-linked-subsequent.html

Interesting stuff, Wes - especially since it was a large longitudinal study!

It is well-documented that a higher IQ often leads to greater dissatisfaction in life - and high rates of anxiety and depression...

Oh I agree, I don't think it should be illegal.  The only concern I have is that should it be legalised, the government will no doubt want a hefty slice of revenue, much like they do with cigarettes.  
This doesn't bode well for anyone having the gall to grow their own - what attracts a minor penalty under prohibition will be termed 'tax evasion' and attract a much stiffer penalty.  Go figure.

I'd vote yes for legalising cannabis if it ever comes to that (which I doubt).

Annie Anthrax wrote on Nov 18^th, 2011 at 12:08pm:

I'd vote yes for legalising cannabis if it ever comes to that (which I doubt).

I think, legalising should be the end game but it's a very long way off, decriminalised with a licensed medical use system would be the best I would hope for in the short term.

... wrote on Nov 18^th, 2011 at 11:52am:

Oh I agree, I don't think it should be illegal.  The only concern I have is that should it be legalised, the government will no doubt want a hefty slice of revenue, much like they do with cigarettes.   This doesn't bode well for anyone having the gall to grow their own - what attracts a minor penalty under prohibition will be termed 'tax evasion' and attract a much stiffer penalty.  Go figure.

As a legal product I think it should probably be treated in the same way as alcohol would be taxed, nil tax for non commercial quantities, licensed and regulated production and distribution systems for the commercial operators.  

qikvtec wrote on Nov 18^th, 2011 at 1:17pm:

... wrote on Nov 18th, 2011 at 11:52am: Oh I agree, I don't think it should be illegal.  The only concern I have is that should it be legalised, the government will no doubt want a hefty slice of revenue, much like they do with cigarettes.   This doesn't bode well for anyone having the gall to grow their own - what attracts a minor penalty under prohibition will be termed 'tax evasion' and attract a much stiffer penalty.  Go figure. As a legal product I think it should probably be treated in the same way as alcohol would be taxed, nil tax for non commercial quantities, licensed and regulated production and distribution systems for the commercial operators.

 wasnt it Amsterdam that had all those cafes where smoking was legal, very cool and advanced.. I read somewhere where they are shutting down..and only a few left for the local pot heads..

I am sure you enjoy what you do gik and hopefully is doesnt have any bad effects on your health..but my grandson comes from an addictive family..he is now 15... he has a cousin in jail for a hold up in relation to drug addiction.his greatgrandfather died of alcolism. his grandfather is an alcoholic.. his uncle that lives with his nan and grandfather is an alcoholic.
I am terrified that he will be one of those addicted from day one...to anything thats addictive..

words from his cousin.. whos doin g time... was he started off on pot.and from there it went steadily downhill..

you dont seem to think this can lead to more devastating things..

when you talk like this I shake my head as I see the problems we have now with grog and pokermachines...everyone trying to undo whats been done..and you think legalising this is a good thing..

treating another problem like we do alcohol!!!!!... ask the Salvation Army about alcohol abd what it is doing to society.


I have already had the abuse screamed t me claiming I know nothing about this...but I have eyes and I see a young man in jail for 5 years all thanks to drugs and his "mates" that got him sucked in again.

Quote:

words from his cousin.. whos doin g time... was he started off on pot.and from there it went steadily downhill..

I'd bet the house he really 'started' on alcohol.

It sounds to me, Cods, as though the family you describe has a predisposition to ADD/ADHD - though the older generations would have gone undiagnosed and untreated...

If the 15 year old you mentioned has not been properly medicated and counseled, then there's every chance that he'll start self-medicating soon...

BTW, smoking cigarettes is a common pre-cursor to smoking pot...

cods wrote on Nov 18^th, 2011 at 5:51pm:

qikvtec wrote on Nov 18th, 2011 at 1:17pm: ... wrote on Nov 18th, 2011 at 11:52am: Oh I agree, I don't think it should be illegal.  The only concern I have is that should it be legalised, the government will no doubt want a hefty slice of revenue, much like they do with cigarettes.   This doesn't bode well for anyone having the gall to grow their own - what attracts a minor penalty under prohibition will be termed 'tax evasion' and attract a much stiffer penalty.  Go figure. As a legal product I think it should probably be treated in the same way as alcohol would be taxed, nil tax for non commercial quantities, licensed and regulated production and distribution systems for the commercial operators.    wasnt it Amsterdam that had all those cafes where smoking was legal, very cool and advanced.. I read somewhere where they are shutting down..and only a few left for the local pot heads.. I am sure you enjoy what you do gik and hopefully is doesnt have any bad effects on your health..but my grandson comes from an addictive family..he is now 15... he has a cousin in jail for a hold up in relation to drug addiction.his greatgrandfather died of alcolism. his grandfather is an alcoholic.. his uncle that lives with his nan and grandfather is an alcoholic. I am terrified that he will be one of those addicted from day one...to anything thats addictive.. words from his cousin.. whos doin g time... was he started off on pot.and from there it went steadily downhill.. you dont seem to think this can lead to more devastating things.. when you talk like this I shake my head as I see the problems we have now with grog and pokermachines...everyone trying to undo whats been done..and you think legalising this is a good thing.. treating another problem like we do alcohol!!!!!... ask the Salvation Army about alcohol abd what it is doing to society. I have already had the abuse screamed t me claiming I know nothing about this...but I have eyes and I see a young man in jail for 5 years all thanks to drugs and his "mates" that got him sucked in again.

Cannabis is not addictive, it has no physically addictive properties.

I don't consume cannabis for recreational purposes, I use it for pain management, usually less than .5g per day (which is bugger all).  The fact is, the illegal nature of the plant prevents me from consuming any other way; the cost would be prohibitive.

Cannabis is often known as a gateway drug, but in most cases the gateway is Tobacco or Alcohol.

Alcohol is by far a bigger problem than all other illegal drugs combined, tobacco bigger again, in fact I'd be surprised if Coffee didn't cause more issues than Cannabis.  

http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_myth.shtml

This is a good read for those interested, it's pretty light on.

Cods "The Project" on Ten, Monday 6.30, is running the story about the Cannabis medicine man.  You should check it out.

qikvtec wrote on Nov 18^th, 2011 at 6:10pm:

cods wrote on Nov 18th, 2011 at 5:51pm: qikvtec wrote on Nov 18th, 2011 at 1:17pm: ... wrote on Nov 18th, 2011 at 11:52am: Oh I agree, I don't think it should be illegal.  The only concern I have is that should it be legalised, the government will no doubt want a hefty slice of revenue, much like they do with cigarettes.   This doesn't bode well for anyone having the gall to grow their own - what attracts a minor penalty under prohibition will be termed 'tax evasion' and attract a much stiffer penalty.  Go figure. As a legal product I think it should probably be treated in the same way as alcohol would be taxed, nil tax for non commercial quantities, licensed and regulated production and distribution systems for the commercial operators.    wasnt it Amsterdam that had all those cafes where smoking was legal, very cool and advanced.. I read somewhere where they are shutting down..and only a few left for the local pot heads.. I am sure you enjoy what you do gik and hopefully is doesnt have any bad effects on your health..but my grandson comes from an addictive family..he is now 15... he has a cousin in jail for a hold up in relation to drug addiction.his greatgrandfather died of alcolism. his grandfather is an alcoholic.. his uncle that lives with his nan and grandfather is an alcoholic. I am terrified that he will be one of those addicted from day one...to anything thats addictive.. words from his cousin.. whos doin g time... was he started off on pot.and from there it went steadily downhill.. you dont seem to think this can lead to more devastating things.. when you talk like this I shake my head as I see the problems we have now with grog and pokermachines...everyone trying to undo whats been done..and you think legalising this is a good thing.. treating another problem like we do alcohol!!!!!... ask the Salvation Army about alcohol abd what it is doing to society. I have already had the abuse screamed t me claiming I know nothing about this...but I have eyes and I see a young man in jail for 5 years all thanks to drugs and his "mates" that got him sucked in again. Cannabis is not addictive, it has no physically addictive properties. I don't consume cannabis for recreational purposes, I use it for pain management, usually less than .5g per day (which is bugger all).  The fact is, the illegal nature of the plant prevents me from consuming any other way; the cost would be prohibitive. Cannabis is often known as a gateway drug, but in most cases the gateway is Tobacco or Alcohol. Alcohol is by far a bigger problem than all other illegal drugs combined, tobacco bigger again, in fact I'd be surprised if Coffee didn't cause more issues than Cannabis.

I'm assuming you smoke it?
if you do and you want to limit health problems and reduce the amount you use try a vaporizer,you will cut your usage down dramatically without the effects that combustion bring.
As for cods points
1 -pot is NOT addictive, but if you mix tobacco with it you will become addicted to the tobacco.
2 can using pot be a stepping stone to other drugs?
that's like saying smoking cigarettes will make you an alcoholic, pot itself does not cause anyone to get involved in other drugs, BUT what happens often is  people that use pot score it off people that also deal other drugs, when their dealer is out of pot they may be offered speed, acid or coke for instance, so NO pot does not lead to the consumption of other drugs, but keeping pot illegal DOES,as it often introduces the pot user to other drugs for no reason other than pot is not available.

... wrote on Nov 18^th, 2011 at 5:55pm:

Quote: words from his cousin.. whos doin g time... was he started off on pot.and from there it went steadily downhill.. I'd bet the house he really 'started' on alcohol.

does it matter they are both addictive... I meant before he ended up in H.sheeeeez

Equitist wrote on Nov 18^th, 2011 at 6:09pm:

It sounds to me, Cods, as though the family you describe has a predisposition to ADD/ADHD - though the older generations would have gone undiagnosed and untreated... If the 15 year old you mentioned has not been properly medicated and counseled, then there's every chance that he'll start self-medicating soon... BTW, smoking cigarettes is a common pre-cursor to smoking pot...

well there goes your self appointed diagnosis.. wrong on every point..

my grandson is fantastic thank you..he now has a job after school.. and we couldnt be prouder...what I was talking about to gik... was how easy it would be for someone like him to fall by the wayside..

gik says it aint as bad as what everyone claims it is..

the older generation!! how do you know what caused their addictions?.. I am saying it is part of my grandsons genes..for all I know alcoholism may be even further back.. I dont ask.

but by todays standards they could all be heroin addicts instead of alcoholics...I am not sure which is worse to be honest..sitting there slurping down grog.. or shooting up..or sniffing

yes I can guarantee most pot smokers smoked cigarettes .. lets face it.. they say one cigarette and you are gone.. and cigarettes being very handy to get hold of...why wouldnt they??


the young man in jail.. my grandsons cousin is 31 I have a soft spot for this guy .. his dad left the family when he was 7 and he kind of went wild.. but anyway he cleaned himself up.. just unbelievable got a job got a car..then he fell in with the same crowd once again... and bang he is now serving time..hold up with a knife..the sad thing is we now think he is brain damaged...he is over weight before he was like annorexic.. they are doing nothing for him in prison..the place is riddled with drugs although he tells his mum he isnt going there..she visits twice a week..you can only go if immediate family.  I cant tell you how distressing the whole thing is.. he will come out in a year and be sent b ack to where all the creeps are still.. I dont believe he will ever work and his poor mum works two jobs..and faces him coming home to live with her.. because where else can he go.

you have to live with the ripple affect to really understand the harm.

and to legalise something as dangerous as this isnt my idea of fixing a problem..one thing does lead to another.... not for everyone but an awful lot.and that should be enough

cods wrote on Nov 19^th, 2011 at 5:42pm:

Equitist wrote on Nov 18th, 2011 at 6:09pm: It sounds to me, Cods, as though the family you describe has a predisposition to ADD/ADHD - though the older generations would have gone undiagnosed and untreated... If the 15 year old you mentioned has not been properly medicated and counseled, then there's every chance that he'll start self-medicating soon... BTW, smoking cigarettes is a common pre-cursor to smoking pot... well there goes your self appointed diagnosis.. wrong on every point.. my grandson is fantastic thank you..he now has a job after school.. and we couldnt be prouder...what I was talking about to gik... was how easy it would be for someone like him to fall by the wayside.. gik says it aint as bad as what everyone claims it is.. the older generation!! how do you know what caused their addictions?.. I am saying it is part of my grandsons genes..for all I know alcoholism may be even further back.. I dont ask. but by todays standards they could all be heroin addicts instead of alcoholics...I am not sure which is worse to be honest..sitting there slurping down grog.. or shooting up..or sniffing yes I can guarantee most pot smokers smoked cigarettes .. lets face it.. they say one cigarette and you are gone.. and cigarettes being very handy to get hold of...why wouldnt they?? the young man in jail.. my grandsons cousin is 31 I have a soft spot for this guy .. his dad left the family when he was 7 and he kind of went wild.. but anyway he cleaned himself up.. just unbelievable got a job got a car..then he fell in with the same crowd once again... and bang he is now serving time..hold up with a knife..the sad thing is we now think he is brain damaged...he is over weight before he was like annorexic.. they are doing nothing for him in prison..the place is riddled with drugs although he tells his mum he isnt going there..she visits twice a week..you can only go if immediate family.  I cant tell you how distressing the whole thing is.. he will come out in a year and be sent b ack to where all the creeps are still.. I dont believe he will ever work and his poor mum works two jobs..and faces him coming home to live with her.. because where else can he go. you have to live with the ripple affect to really understand the harm. and to legalise something as dangerous as this isnt my idea of fixing a problem..one thing does lead to another.... not for everyone but an awful lot.and that should be enough

As dangerous as pot?  

qikvtec wrote on Nov 17^th, 2011 at 7:21pm:

I have started this thread with the intention of bringing some information to Oz Politics members regarding Cannabis, it's medicinal and recreational use. Mods there is a discussion going on in this thread, would you mind moving the Cannabis related posts from that thread here. The war on drugs is not working, we need to address the problems as medical and not criminal issues (commercial quantities aside). Portugal has led the way on the issue. Let's discuss.

People, including most silver spooners, smoke cannabis to feel half able to come down from the meth to even entertain the possiblity about actually going to work on Monday!

PURE FACT!

YOU CAN'T SMOKE ALL THAT CRACK AND NOT USE WEED TO COME DOWN... BUT IT DOESN'T WORK!

SMOKING CRACK DESTRIOYS YOU AND DOPE JUST MAKES YOU HALF FEEL BETTER ABOUT EMBARRASING YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY SO THOUROUGHLY AND UTTERLY ON IT!

A bit of dopes alright but the hydros will kill your mind eventually!

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Nov 19^th, 2011 at 8:56pm:

qikvtec wrote on Nov 17th, 2011 at 7:21pm: I have started this thread with the intention of bringing some information to Oz Politics members regarding Cannabis, it's medicinal and recreational use. Mods there is a discussion going on in this thread, would you mind moving the Cannabis related posts from that thread here. The war on drugs is not working, we need to address the problems as medical and not criminal issues (commercial quantities aside). Portugal has led the way on the issue. Let's discuss. People, including most silver spooners, smoke cannabis to feel half able to come down from the meth to even entertain the possiblity about actually going to work on Monday! PURE FACT! YOU CAN'T SMOKE ALL THAT CRACK AND NOT USE WEED TO COME DOWN... BUT IT DOESN'T WORK! SMOKING CRACK DESTRIOYS YOU AND DOPE JUST MAKES YOU HALF FEEL BETTER ABOUT EMBARRASING YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY SO THOUROUGHLY AND UTTERLY ON IT! A bit of dopes alright but the hydros will kill your mind eventually!

And that made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Kat wrote on Nov 19^th, 2011 at 9:28pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Nov 19th, 2011 at 8:56pm: qikvtec wrote on Nov 17th, 2011 at 7:21pm: I have started this thread with the intention of bringing some information to Oz Politics members regarding Cannabis, it's medicinal and recreational use. Mods there is a discussion going on in this thread, would you mind moving the Cannabis related posts from that thread here. The war on drugs is not working, we need to address the problems as medical and not criminal issues (commercial quantities aside). Portugal has led the way on the issue. Let's discuss. People, including most silver spooners, smoke cannabis to feel half able to come down from the meth to even entertain the possiblity about actually going to work on Monday! PURE FACT! YOU CAN'T SMOKE ALL THAT CRACK AND NOT USE WEED TO COME DOWN... BUT IT DOESN'T WORK! SMOKING CRACK DESTRIOYS YOU AND DOPE JUST MAKES YOU HALF FEEL BETTER ABOUT EMBARRASING YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY SO THOUROUGHLY AND UTTERLY ON IT! A bit of dopes alright but the hydros will kill your mind eventually! And that made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

wHEN YOU'RE SCARED OF the 13 year old kid down the street you can be sure the town/city/country has a drug problem!  :-? ;) :D

Quote:

2 can using pot be a stepping stone to other drugs? that's like saying smoking cigarettes will make you an alcoholic, pot itself does not cause anyone to get involved in other drugs, BUT what happens often is  people that use pot score it off people that also deal other drugs, when their dealer is out of pot they may be offered speed, acid or coke for instance, so NO pot does not lead to the consumption of other drugs, but keeping pot illegal DOES,as it often introduces the pot user to other drugs for no reason other than pot is not available.

Spot on. This is my experience. It is the association with dealers that introduces you to other things.

There is an article/letter in the Times here in the UK today signed by Jimmy Carter ...etc stating the UN treating on the War on Drug introduced in 1961 (i think that was the date) has failed and we should all look to harm minimisation. Drugs is the 3rd biggest industry in the world behind food and oil and all the money is control by criminals.

Time for a change in the way we think about drugs.

I say, don't just decriminalise it, legalise it, tax it, manufacture it under government or private companies.

Provide Coffee shop environments to buy and use it. Like providing pubs for alchohol, provide shops for drugs.

Take the crime out of it. Provide support for those who get into trouble. Make the world a safer place.

Pot introduced me to speed, coke, ecstasy and heroin.

Thankyou pot. It's been fun.

Why is this thread even here?

No objections about the content of the debate, but there is a drug policy forum available for use  ::)

Super Nova wrote on Nov 19^th, 2011 at 9:49pm:

Quote: 2 can using pot be a stepping stone to other drugs? that's like saying smoking cigarettes will make you an alcoholic, pot itself does not cause anyone to get involved in other drugs, BUT what happens often is  people that use pot score it off people that also deal other drugs, when their dealer is out of pot they may be offered speed, acid or coke for instance, so NO pot does not lead to the consumption of other drugs, but keeping pot illegal DOES,as it often introduces the pot user to other drugs for no reason other than pot is not available. Spot on. This is my experience. It is the association with dealers that introduces you to other things. There is an article/letter in the Times here in the UK today signed by Jimmy Carter ...etc stating the UN treating on the War on Drug introduced in 1961 (i think that was the date) has failed and we should all look to harm minimisation. Drugs is the 3rd biggest industry in the world behind food and oil and all the money is control by criminals. Time for a change in the way we think about drugs. I say, don't just decriminalise it, legalise it, tax it, manufacture it under government or private companies. Provide Coffee shop environments to buy and use it. Like providing pubs for alchohol, provide shops for drugs. Take the crime out of it. Provide support for those who get into trouble. Make the world a safer place.

The only problem with pot is that some people will inevitably abuse it -
in the same way that one person can have just a small glass of wine with their
dinner & others become alcoholics & ruin their lives.

Quote:

The only problem with pot is that some people  will inevitably abuse it - in the same way that one person can have just a small glass of wine with their dinner & others become alcoholics & ruin their lives.

I don't really think that you have any perspective there at all bobby.

Pot is not like that. It's very hard to abuse it. Most likely you will fall asleep well before you get any chance to abuse it. And abuse is rarely possible under any circumstance.

It's not an addictive drug, get it?
ie: your body will not crave that particular chemical as it does for caffeine and other Mc. Substances.

So when people are desparate and out on the baggy hunt that takes hours and they drive all over town in a desparate bid to score some pot, this is not driven by addiction.

I'm not sure I buy it. It may not have the physical addiction aspects of heroin or alchohol but maybe there is the mental side to it's addictive properties.

Amadd wrote on Nov 20^th, 2011 at 1:01am:

Quote: The only problem with pot is that some people  will inevitably abuse it - in the same way that one person can have just a small glass of wine with their dinner & others become alcoholics & ruin their lives. I don't really think that you have any perspective there at all bobby. Pot is not like that. It's very hard to abuse it. Most likely you will fall asleep well before you get any chance to abuse it. And abuse is rarely possible under any circumstance. It's not an addictive drug, get it?ie: your body will not crave that particular chemical as it does for caffeine and other Mc. Substances.

then WHY is it illegal??

you guys all claim it is sooo innocent... so why is it ILLEGAL???

cods wrote on Nov 20^th, 2011 at 10:53am:

Amadd wrote on Nov 20th, 2011 at 1:01am: Quote: The only problem with pot is that some people  will inevitably abuse it - in the same way that one person can have just a small glass of wine with their dinner & others become alcoholics & ruin their lives. I don't really think that you have any perspective there at all bobby. Pot is not like that. It's very hard to abuse it. Most likely you will fall asleep well before you get any chance to abuse it. And abuse is rarely possible under any circumstance. It's not an addictive drug, get it?ie: your body will not crave that particular chemical as it does for caffeine and other Mc. Substances. then WHY is it illegal?? you guys all claim it is sooo innocent... so why is it ILLEGAL???

Vested financial interests, and an opportunity to persecute minorities.

Historical fact.

Kat wrote on Nov 20^th, 2011 at 11:16am:

cods wrote on Nov 20th, 2011 at 10:53am: Amadd wrote on Nov 20th, 2011 at 1:01am: Quote: The only problem with pot is that some people  will inevitably abuse it - in the same way that one person can have just a small glass of wine with their dinner & others become alcoholics & ruin their lives. I don't really think that you have any perspective there at all bobby. Pot is not like that. It's very hard to abuse it. Most likely you will fall asleep well before you get any chance to abuse it. And abuse is rarely possible under any circumstance. It's not an addictive drug, get it?ie: your body will not crave that particular chemical as it does for caffeine and other Mc. Substances. then WHY is it illegal?? you guys all claim it is sooo innocent... so why is it ILLEGAL??? Vested financial interests, and an opportunity to persecute minorities. Historical fact.

bull rushes and you know it...

how come so many believe the science of climat change..


yet not the science of cannabis... so many reports have been printed up on this...of course from both sides... no more than they have with climate change..

yet they only choose to believe one side..I think thats a male thing you know..

how about NIMBIM.. isnt that the pot town of NSW...and dont they sit around in a daze most of the time? or is that all the fresh air.

Its not illegal because its addictive,what a stupid statement, if that were the case tobacco and alcohol would be illegal. Pot is illegal because of a beat up by pharmaceutical companies in the 1940s.I wish people at least attempted to find something out about a subject before they wrote crap on it.

Equitist wrote on Nov 18^th, 2011 at 11:35am:

I believe that cannabis should be decriminalised and that its medicinal and other health potential ought to be fully investigated.

They have - in great detail  :) Here are some arguments against and pro -cannabis in summary.  Note that being unbiased, I close with the arguments in favour. Make up your own mind.


Quote:

Marijuana isn't really very good for you. True, there are health benefits for some patients. [but...] Frequent marijuana use can seriously affect your short-term memory. It can impair your cognitive ability (why do you think people call it dope?) and lead to long-lasting depression or anxiety. While many people smoke marijuana to relax, it can have the opposite effect on frequent users. And smoking anything, whether it's tobacco or marijuana, can seriously damage your lung tissue...Despite all the talk about the medical benefits of marijuana, smoking the stuff is not going to do your health any good."

Sanjay Gupta, MD, Chief Medical Correspondent for CNN. "Why I Would Vote No on Pot." Time magazine. Nov. 6, 2006


Quote:

"Marijuana and Its Receptor Protein in Brain Control Epilepsy." Sep. 30, 2003: "Individuals both here and abroad report that marijuana has been therapeutic for them in the treatment of a variety of ailments, including epilepsy. But the psychoactive side effects of marijuana make its use impractical in the treatment of epilepsy. If we can understand how marijuana works to end seizures, we may be able to develop novel drugs that might do a better job of treating epileptic seizures

Robert DeLorenzo, MD, PhD, MPH, Professor of Neurology in the Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine.


Quote:

I thinks it's for mellow me man, mellow me man right mellow me man mellow me man right mellow me man

The Roots, 1996

And smoking anything, whether it's tobacco or marijuana, can seriously damage your lung tissue...Despite all the talk about the medical benefits of marijuana, smoking the stuff is not going to do your health any good."


As a reformed smoker I totally agree with this, even tho no study has ever shown pot to cause lung cancer, smoking anything can surely not be good for you.
If you want to use pot I suggest a vaporizer or eat it.

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Nov 19^th, 2011 at 8:56pm:

qikvtec wrote on Nov 17th, 2011 at 7:21pm: I have started this thread with the intention of bringing some information to Oz Politics members regarding Cannabis, it's medicinal and recreational use. Mods there is a discussion going on in this thread, would you mind moving the Cannabis related posts from that thread here. The war on drugs is not working, we need to address the problems as medical and not criminal issues (commercial quantities aside). Portugal has led the way on the issue. Let's discuss. People, including most silver spooners, smoke cannabis to feel half able to come down from the meth to even entertain the possiblity about actually going to work on Monday! PURE FACT! YOU CAN'T SMOKE ALL THAT CRACK AND NOT USE WEED TO COME DOWN... BUT IT DOESN'T WORK! SMOKING CRACK DESTRIOYS YOU AND DOPE JUST MAKES YOU HALF FEEL BETTER ABOUT EMBARRASING YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY SO THOUROUGHLY AND UTTERLY ON IT! A bit of dopes alright but the hydros will kill your mind eventually!

Slowly reading through.

The most illinformed post yet.

Amadd wrote on Nov 20^th, 2011 at 1:01am:

Quote: The only problem with pot is that some people  will inevitably abuse it - in the same way that one person can have just a small glass of wine with their dinner & others become alcoholics & ruin their lives. I don't really think that you have any perspective there at all bobby. Pot is not like that. It's very hard to abuse it. Most likely you will fall asleep well before you get any chance to abuse it. And abuse is rarely possible under any circumstance. It's not an addictive drug, get it? ie: your body will not crave that particular chemical as it does for caffeine and other Mc. Substances.

People don't and can't abuse pot use.....oh.....ok.

:( :o

qikvtec wrote on Nov 17^th, 2011 at 9:48pm:

Lists of conditions known to be treated effectively with a harmless plant Glaucoma Period Pain Anorexia Cancer - if not directly related to tumour death, return of appetite, analgesia and deep restorative sleep. Anxiety Depression General and severe pain Epilepsy MS Parkinsons The cost of policing this harmless yet incredibly valuable plant is enormous and could easily be better directed to studying the positive medical impacts, completely ignoring the obvious commercial benefits of fibre, oil and seeds.

Obviously you're not aware of the fact that there are similar legalised drugs currently manufactured and distributed by multinational corporations. Such drugs have similar properties and effects (in terms of molecular structure and pain relief) as cannabis.

Amadd wrote on Nov 20^th, 2011 at 1:01am:

Quote: The only problem with pot is that some people  will inevitably abuse it - in the same way that one person can have just a small glass of wine with their dinner & others become alcoholics & ruin their lives. I don't really think that you have any perspective there at all bobby. Pot is not like that. It's very hard to abuse it. Most likely you will fall asleep well before you get any chance to abuse it. And abuse is rarely possible under any circumstance. It's not an addictive drug, get it? ie: your body will not crave that particular chemical as it does for caffeine and other Mc. Substances.

Hey?

People can't and don't abuse pot?

You're perspectiveless!! :D

MissFixItOrElse wrote on Nov 20^th, 2011 at 5:16pm:

qikvtec wrote on Nov 17th, 2011 at 9:48pm: Lists of conditions known to be treated effectively with a harmless plant Glaucoma Period Pain Anorexia Cancer - if not directly related to tumour death, return of appetite, analgesia and deep restorative sleep. Anxiety Depression General and severe pain Epilepsy MS Parkinsons The cost of policing this harmless yet incredibly valuable plant is enormous and could easily be better directed to studying the positive medical impacts, completely ignoring the obvious commercial benefits of fibre, oil and seeds. Obviously you're not aware of the fact that there are similar legalised drugs currently manufactured and distributed by multinational corporations. Such drugs have similar properties and effects (in terms of molecular structure and pain relief) as cannabis.

Welcome.

I think that is the whole point.

Oh by the way....the point (it's over there>>>you missed it ;))

Kat wrote on Nov 19^th, 2011 at 9:28pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Nov 19th, 2011 at 8:56pm: qikvtec wrote on Nov 17th, 2011 at 7:21pm: I have started this thread with the intention of bringing some information to Oz Politics members regarding Cannabis, it's medicinal and recreational use. Mods there is a discussion going on in this thread, would you mind moving the Cannabis related posts from that thread here. The war on drugs is not working, we need to address the problems as medical and not criminal issues (commercial quantities aside). Portugal has led the way on the issue. Let's discuss. People, including most silver spooners, smoke cannabis to feel half able to come down from the meth to even entertain the possiblity about actually going to work on Monday! PURE FACT! YOU CAN'T SMOKE ALL THAT CRACK AND NOT USE WEED TO COME DOWN... BUT IT DOESN'T WORK! SMOKING CRACK DESTRIOYS YOU AND DOPE JUST MAKES YOU HALF FEEL BETTER ABOUT EMBARRASING YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY SO THOUROUGHLY AND UTTERLY ON IT! A bit of dopes alright but the hydros will kill your mind eventually! And that made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Probably the crack.

MissFixItOrElse wrote on Nov 20^th, 2011 at 5:16pm:

qikvtec wrote on Nov 17th, 2011 at 9:48pm: Lists of conditions known to be treated effectively with a harmless plant Glaucoma Period Pain Anorexia Cancer - if not directly related to tumour death, return of appetite, analgesia and deep restorative sleep. Anxiety Depression General and severe pain Epilepsy MS Parkinsons The cost of policing this harmless yet incredibly valuable plant is enormous and could easily be better directed to studying the positive medical impacts, completely ignoring the obvious commercial benefits of fibre, oil and seeds. Obviously you're not aware of the fact that there are similar legalised drugs currently manufactured and distributed by multinational corporations. Such drugs have similar properties and effects (in terms of molecular structure and pain relief) as cannabis.

And your point is?  Of course there is; ever checked the potential side effect warning LIST on most prescription drugs?

We don't have Crack in Australia.

Cocaine is way too expensive to make brewing up a batch of Crack a profitable pursuit.

MissFixItOrElse wrote on Nov 20^th, 2011 at 5:16pm:

qikvtec wrote on Nov 17th, 2011 at 9:48pm: Lists of conditions known to be treated effectively with a harmless plant Glaucoma Period Pain Anorexia Cancer - if not directly related to tumour death, return of appetite, analgesia and deep restorative sleep. Anxiety Depression General and severe pain Epilepsy MS Parkinsons The cost of policing this harmless yet incredibly valuable plant is enormous and could easily be better directed to studying the positive medical impacts, completely ignoring the obvious commercial benefits of fibre, oil and seeds. Obviously you're not aware of the fact that there are similar legalised drugs currently manufactured and distributed by multinational corporations. Such drugs have similar properties and effects (in terms of molecular structure and pain relief) as cannabis.

And therein lies one of the main reasons for pot being illegal.

cods wrote on Nov 20^th, 2011 at 10:53am:

Amadd wrote on Nov 20th, 2011 at 1:01am: Quote: The only problem with pot is that some people  will inevitably abuse it - in the same way that one person can have just a small glass of wine with their dinner & others become alcoholics & ruin their lives. I don't really think that you have any perspective there at all bobby. Pot is not like that. It's very hard to abuse it. Most likely you will fall asleep well before you get any chance to abuse it. And abuse is rarely possible under any circumstance. It's not an addictive drug, get it?ie: your body will not crave that particular chemical as it does for caffeine and other Mc. Substances. then WHY is it illegal?? you guys all claim it is sooo innocent... so why is it ILLEGAL???

Ask yourself the question Cods, why IS the most versatile resource on the planet illegal?

Life_goes_on wrote on Nov 20^th, 2011 at 8:27pm:

We don't have Crack in Australia. Cocaine is way too expensive to make brewing up a batch of Crack a profitable pursuit.

Quite right, a figure of speech.

skippy. wrote on Nov 19^th, 2011 at 2:56pm:

qikvtec wrote on Nov 18th, 2011 at 6:10pm: cods wrote on Nov 18th, 2011 at 5:51pm: qikvtec wrote on Nov 18th, 2011 at 1:17pm: ... wrote on Nov 18th, 2011 at 11:52am: Oh I agree, I don't think it should be illegal.  The only concern I have is that should it be legalised, the government will no doubt want a hefty slice of revenue, much like they do with cigarettes.   This doesn't bode well for anyone having the gall to grow their own - what attracts a minor penalty under prohibition will be termed 'tax evasion' and attract a much stiffer penalty.  Go figure. As a legal product I think it should probably be treated in the same way as alcohol would be taxed, nil tax for non commercial quantities, licensed and regulated production and distribution systems for the commercial operators.    wasnt it Amsterdam that had all those cafes where smoking was legal, very cool and advanced.. I read somewhere where they are shutting down..and only a few left for the local pot heads.. I am sure you enjoy what you do gik and hopefully is doesnt have any bad effects on your health..but my grandson comes from an addictive family..he is now 15... he has a cousin in jail for a hold up in relation to drug addiction.his greatgrandfather died of alcolism. his grandfather is an alcoholic.. his uncle that lives with his nan and grandfather is an alcoholic. I am terrified that he will be one of those addicted from day one...to anything thats addictive.. words from his cousin.. whos doin g time... was he started off on pot.and from there it went steadily downhill.. you dont seem to think this can lead to more devastating things.. when you talk like this I shake my head as I see the problems we have now with grog and pokermachines...everyone trying to undo whats been done..and you think legalising this is a good thing.. treating another problem like we do alcohol!!!!!... ask the Salvation Army about alcohol abd what it is doing to society. I have already had the abuse screamed t me claiming I know nothing about this...but I have eyes and I see a young man in jail for 5 years all thanks to drugs and his "mates" that got him sucked in again. Cannabis is not addictive, it has no physically addictive properties. I don't consume cannabis for recreational purposes, I use it for pain management, usually less than .5g per day (which is bugger all).  The fact is, the illegal nature of the plant prevents me from consuming any other way; the cost would be prohibitive. Cannabis is often known as a gateway drug, but in most cases the gateway is Tobacco or Alcohol. Alcohol is by far a bigger problem than all other illegal drugs combined, tobacco bigger again, in fact I'd be surprised if Coffee didn't cause more issues than Cannabis.   I'm assuming you smoke it? if you do and you want to limit health problems and reduce the amount you use try a vaporizer,you will cut your usage down dramatically without the effects that combustion bring. As for cods points 1 -pot is NOT addictive, but if you mix tobacco with it you will become addicted to the tobacco. 2 can using pot be a stepping stone to other drugs? that's like saying smoking cigarettes will make you an alcoholic, pot itself does not cause anyone to get involved in other drugs, BUT what happens often is  people that use pot score it off people that also deal other drugs, when their dealer is out of pot they may be offered speed, acid or coke for instance, so NO pot does not lead to the consumption of other drugs, but keeping pot illegal DOES,as it often introduces the pot user to other drugs for no reason other than pot is not available.

The tight arse in me won't shell out for a vape Skip.  I smoked cigarettes for 15 years, +/- 30/day, so a few pipes each day whilst probably not great pales in comparison.

1. Quite right on that point.
2. A symptom of prohibition; if it were legal you could grow your own and wouldn't need to associate with the types who would have the harder more addictive drugs available.

Another one to add

3. No straight man ever performed degrading sexual acts on a dealer for pot, I'm sure you couldn't say the same thing for meth or smack.

I wish people wouldn't use the medical aspect of pot as a reason to legalise it.

There's plenty of genuine pharmacuticals that do the job just as well and for cheaper.

Let's just be honest and say it's the buzz it gives that we like.

On the scale of things that give you a buzz, it's less harmful than both Alcohol and cigarettes and gives a far more pleasurable experience with far less adverse effects. When compared with the other substances out there that you can obtain (if you're keen enough) it rates as just a bit of fluff on the scale of pleasurable experiences.

It may be illegal - but it's so easy to obtain and with so few downsides that whinging about its legal status is pretty well pointless. The worst thing about its illegality is that people who in all other respects are straight up citizens can find themselves being processed through our legal system - which is somewhere that they definitely don't deserve to be.

My son was 6 years old when he was prescribed a drug for which a rare listed side effect is SUDDEN DEATH - but the pharmacist kindly placed stickers on the box warning of the more common side effects related to drowsiness, coordination and driving!

Many of us would currently have in our possession one or more drugs with that grave side effect listed on the insert!

Life_goes_on wrote on Nov 20^th, 2011 at 8:39pm:

I wish people wouldn't use the medical aspect of pot as a reason to legalise it. There's plenty of genuine pharmacuticals that do the job just as well and for cheaper. Let's just be honest and say it's the buzz it gives that we like. On the scale of things that give you a buzz, it's less harmful than both Alcohol and cigarettes and gives a far more pleasurable experience with far less adverse effects. When compared with the other substances out there that you can obtain (if you're keen enough) it rates as just a bit of fluff on the scale of pleasurable experiences. It may be illegal - but it's so easy to obtain and with so few downsides that whinging about its legal status is pretty well pointless. The worst thing about its illegality is that people who in all other respects are straight up citizens can find themselves being processed through our legal system - which is somewhere that they definitely don't deserve to be.

Genuine pharmaceutical analgesics for acute pain; hmmm options are limited, side effects not great, and almost guaranteed addictive with an ever increasing dose.

Quote:

Genuine pharmaceutical analgesics for acute pain; hmmm options are limited, side effects not great, and almost guaranteed addictive with an ever increasing dose.

I kind of agree if we're talking opiates. A lot of people have a problem with those because of their addictive properties and the stigma that's attached to opiate use..
But hell, if you've got chronic pain then there's nothing wrong with being an addict. The side effects can be managed and you do eventually reach a plateau in regards to the dose.

It's far more effective than resorting to smoking pot - unless of course you just like the stoned feeling - but then you may as well use opiates to control the pain and just smoke pot recreationally.

Quote:

3. No straight man ever performed degrading sexual acts on a dealer for pot, I'm sure you couldn't say the same thing for meth or smack.

I doubt many would for meth. Smack yes - meth no. You never really hang out for meth like you do for smack. The worst it ever gets with meth is that using again just seems like a really good idea - not an extreme necessity like with smack.

Life_goes_on wrote on Nov 20^th, 2011 at 9:13pm:

Quote: 3. No straight man ever performed degrading sexual acts on a dealer for pot, I'm sure you couldn't say the same thing for meth or smack. I doubt many would for meth. Smack yes - meth no. You never really hang out for meth like you do for smack. The worst it ever gets with meth is that using again just seems like a really good idea - not an extreme necessity like with smack.

I've never booted anything, have had the occasional line and pipe though and would tend to agree.  Don't think I could manage smack myself, if it's that addictive I may not be able to help myself.

Life_goes_on wrote on Nov 20^th, 2011 at 9:03pm:

Quote: Genuine pharmaceutical analgesics for acute pain; hmmm options are limited, side effects not great, and almost guaranteed addictive with an ever increasing dose. I kind of agree if we're talking opiates. A lot of people have a problem with those because of their addictive properties and the stigma that's attached to opiate use.. But hell, if you've got chronic pain then there's nothing wrong with being an addict. The side effects can be managed and you do eventually reach a plateau in regards to the dose. It's far more effective than resorting to smoking pot - unless of course you just like the stoned feeling - but then you may as well use opiates to control the pain and just smoke pot recreationally.

Posterior fusion C3/C4, morphine and pethidine was used initially post op which was a bitch to come down from, codeine as a follow up, I could take 10 30mg Fortes and go to work.  Long term use of that is not great for anything below the oesophagus.

I never actually liked the buzz of sativa's and much prefer the lower thc and higher CBD, CBN content of a potent indica.  The problem is if I were caught growing it, my career is over, so am forced to take my chances with whatever's available wherever it's available.  

If it were legalised those that want to smoke it for sh!ts and giggles could, and those who wish to use it medicinally can.

Did you watch the program cods?

qikvtec wrote on Nov 21^st, 2011 at 8:19pm:

Life_goes_on wrote on Nov 20th, 2011 at 9:13pm: Quote: 3. No straight man ever performed degrading sexual acts on a dealer for pot, I'm sure you couldn't say the same thing for meth or smack. I doubt many would for meth. Smack yes - meth no. You never really hang out for meth like you do for smack. The worst it ever gets with meth is that using again just seems like a really good idea - not an extreme necessity like with smack. I've never booted anything, have had the occasional line and pipe though and would tend to agree.  Don't think I could manage smack myself, if it's that addictive I may not be able to help myself.

Smacks addictive - the most addictive by a long margin with what I've tried but you still need a couple of weeks of daily use to really get addicted. Not that that's hard to fall into that cycle - it is nice - nice beyond what someone who hasn't tried it could believe.

I've never booted it - only smoked it - but I have booted meth. Meth just gets old quickly - you want it, but you never really crave it,

Based on what you've said, I'd gp see an addiction specialist and see what they prescribe for pain management. Unless you're based in Qld - then your options are extremely limited and getting anything seriously strong is going to result in daily reporting for a dose which is neither a good look or often able to fit in with a career.

Life_goes_on wrote on Nov 21^st, 2011 at 8:58pm:

qikvtec wrote on Nov 21st, 2011 at 8:19pm: Life_goes_on wrote on Nov 20th, 2011 at 9:13pm: Quote: 3. No straight man ever performed degrading sexual acts on a dealer for pot, I'm sure you couldn't say the same thing for meth or smack. I doubt many would for meth. Smack yes - meth no. You never really hang out for meth like you do for smack. The worst it ever gets with meth is that using again just seems like a really good idea - not an extreme necessity like with smack. I've never booted anything, have had the occasional line and pipe though and would tend to agree.  Don't think I could manage smack myself, if it's that addictive I may not be able to help myself. Smacks addictive - the most addictive by a long margin with what I've tried but you still need a couple of weeks of daily use to really get addicted. Not that that's hard to fall into that cycle - it is nice - nice beyond what someone who hasn't tried it could believe. I've never booted it - only smoked it - but I have booted meth. Meth just gets old quickly - you want it, but you never really crave it, Based on what you've said, I'd gp see an addiction specialist and see what they prescribe for pain management. Unless you're based in Qld - then your options are extremely limited and getting anything seriously strong is going to result in daily reporting for a dose which is neither a good look or often able to fit in with a career.

Based in QLD; The original police state.

I don't really mind having a couple of cones every night, 3 or 4 usually, no nic.  If it were legal I would just grow 2 or 4 plants and use a solvent extraction to keep myself in a regular supply of the good oil.

qikvtec wrote on Nov 21^st, 2011 at 9:11pm:

Life_goes_on wrote on Nov 21st, 2011 at 8:58pm: qikvtec wrote on Nov 21st, 2011 at 8:19pm: Life_goes_on wrote on Nov 20th, 2011 at 9:13pm: Quote: 3. No straight man ever performed degrading sexual acts on a dealer for pot, I'm sure you couldn't say the same thing for meth or smack. I doubt many would for meth. Smack yes - meth no. You never really hang out for meth like you do for smack. The worst it ever gets with meth is that using again just seems like a really good idea - not an extreme necessity like with smack. I've never booted anything, have had the occasional line and pipe though and would tend to agree.  Don't think I could manage smack myself, if it's that addictive I may not be able to help myself. Smacks addictive - the most addictive by a long margin with what I've tried but you still need a couple of weeks of daily use to really get addicted. Not that that's hard to fall into that cycle - it is nice - nice beyond what someone who hasn't tried it could believe. I've never booted it - only smoked it - but I have booted meth. Meth just gets old quickly - you want it, but you never really crave it, Based on what you've said, I'd gp see an addiction specialist and see what they prescribe for pain management. Unless you're based in Qld - then your options are extremely limited and getting anything seriously strong is going to result in daily reporting for a dose which is neither a good look or often able to fit in with a career. Based in QLD; The original police state. I don't really mind having a couple of cones every night, 3 or 4 usually, no nic.  If it were legal I would just grow 2 or 4 plants and use a solvent extraction to keep myself in a regular supply of the good oil.

If it works for you then you should be able to (legally) do it. I don't know... I've never met anybody that smoked pot for medical reasons. But based on what you've said... and that you're based in Qld.... makes me even more certain that the prohibition of pot is completely wrong.

The arguments in regards to being stoned at work are a crock of sh!t - there's effective testing gear out then then use that. Legalising pot doesn't mean that you are able to be stoned either on the roads or at work.

Life_goes_on wrote on Nov 21^st, 2011 at 9:27pm:

qikvtec wrote on Nov 21st, 2011 at 9:11pm: Life_goes_on wrote on Nov 21st, 2011 at 8:58pm: qikvtec wrote on Nov 21st, 2011 at 8:19pm: Life_goes_on wrote on Nov 20th, 2011 at 9:13pm: Quote: 3. No straight man ever performed degrading sexual acts on a dealer for pot, I'm sure you couldn't say the same thing for meth or smack. I doubt many would for meth. Smack yes - meth no. You never really hang out for meth like you do for smack. The worst it ever gets with meth is that using again just seems like a really good idea - not an extreme necessity like with smack. I've never booted anything, have had the occasional line and pipe though and would tend to agree.  Don't think I could manage smack myself, if it's that addictive I may not be able to help myself. Smacks addictive - the most addictive by a long margin with what I've tried but you still need a couple of weeks of daily use to really get addicted. Not that that's hard to fall into that cycle - it is nice - nice beyond what someone who hasn't tried it could believe. I've never booted it - only smoked it - but I have booted meth. Meth just gets old quickly - you want it, but you never really crave it, Based on what you've said, I'd gp see an addiction specialist and see what they prescribe for pain management. Unless you're based in Qld - then your options are extremely limited and getting anything seriously strong is going to result in daily reporting for a dose which is neither a good look or often able to fit in with a career. Based in QLD; The original police state. I don't really mind having a couple of cones every night, 3 or 4 usually, no nic.  If it were legal I would just grow 2 or 4 plants and use a solvent extraction to keep myself in a regular supply of the good oil. If it works for you then you should be able to (legally) do it. I don't know... I've never met anybody that smoked pot for medical reasons. But based on what you've said... and that you're based in Qld.... makes me even more certain that the prohibition of pot is completely wrong. The arguments in regards to being stoned at work are a crock of sh!t - there's effective testing gear out then then use that. Legalising pot doesn't mean that you are able to be stoned either on the roads or at work.

I concur.  There are some occupations that could be successfully completed or perhaps even enhanced with a bowl before, during and after.  I would never condone the consumption whilst  or prior driving or operating machinery; despite some research that people tend to concentrate more whilst bent and driving; reaction times would most likely go out the window.

Another side effect of prohibition is the lack of proper research, strain development and testing for the potency and concentrations of the various cannibinoids.

I am really surprised that the debate regarding drug prohibition in general, and even more ridiculously, the status of marijuana as an illegal drug, has not really progressed in over forty years.
Every study and report invariably comes back with the findings that our current system of prohibition is counter productive, and more harmful than if we just decriminalised everything.
Of course we would want to think we are smart enough that we would not just jump from one silly extreme to the other, but the fact remains that anyone who believes that the system of criminalising drug use has not been an absolute and unmitigated disaster on every conceivable level, is living in that old Egyptian river.

On top of the huge toll on personal lives, and the massive cost to society that this ridiculous war on drugs has created, we should never lose sight of the fact that the money from this trade is huge, and the profits are far too often translated into weapons for creating even more turmoil in this world, which makes more young people so depressed and fatalistic that they take up drugs to escape the horror of it all.
Seriously, you could not make this shite up.

Still we will never progress when the level of debate is contained to the small minded ignorance of mums and dads whose experience and experise on the subject begins and ends with, "Drugs are bad".

Effects of Marijuana

The effects of marijuana will vary from person to person depending on:

How much taken

How strong (potent) the marijuana is

How the marijuana is taken (joint, bong, food)

Size, weight, health

Mood

Individual experience with marijuana

If marijuana is taken with other drugs

Whether alone or with other people, at home or at a party.
Onset 0-10 minutes
Coming Up  5-10 minutes
Plateau 15-30 minutes
Coming Down 45-60 minutes
After Effects 30-60 minutes


Because marijuana users often inhale the unfiltered smoke deeply and then hold it in their lungs as long as possible, marijuana is damaging to the lungs and pulmonary system. Marijuana smoke contains some of the same carcinogens and toxic particulates as tobacco, sometimes in higher concentrations. Long-term users of cannabis may develop psychological dependence and require more of the drug to get the same effect. The drug can become the center of their lives.


The Effects of Marijuana on the Male:

Marijuana is the most common drug used by adolescents in America today. Marijuana affect the parts of the brain which controls the sex and growth hormones. In males, marijuana can decrease the testosterone level. Occasional cases of enlarged breasts in male marijuana users are triggered by the chemical impact on the hormone system. Regular marijuana use can also lead to a decrease in sperm count, as well as increases in abnormal and immature sperm. Marijuana is a contributing factor in the rising problem of infertility in males. Young males should know the effects and potential effects of marijuana use on sex and growing process before they decide to smoke marijuana.

The Effects of Marijuana on the Female:

Just as in Males, marijuana effects the female in the part of the brain that controls the hormones, which determines the sequence in the menstrual cycle. Its been said that females who smoked or used marijuana on a regular basis had irregular menstrual cycles, the female hormones were depressed, and the testosterone level was raised. Even though this effect may be reversible, it may take several months of no marijuana use before the menstrual cycles become normal again.

Mothers who smoke marijuana on a regular basis have been reported of having babies with a weak central nervous system. These babies show abnormal reactions to light and sound, exhibit tremors and startles, and have the high-pitched cry associated with drug withdrawal. Occurring at five times the rate of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, Fetal Marijuana Syndrome is a growing concern of many doctors. Furthermore, doctors worry that children born to "pot-head" mothers will have learning disabilities, attention deficits and hormonal irregularities as they grow older, even if there are no apparent signs of damage at birth. Pregnant or nursing mothers who smoke marijuana should talk to their doctors immediately.

Effects of Marijuana on the Brain:

Researchers have found that THC changes the way in which sensory information gets into and is acted on by the hippocampus. This is a component of the brain's limbic system that is crucial for learning, memory, and the integration of sensory experiences with emotions and motivations. Investigations have shown that neurons in the information processing system of the hippocampus and the activity of the nerve fibers are suppressed by THC. In addition, researchers have discovered that learned behaviors, which depend on the hippocampus, also deteriorate.

Recent research findings also indicate that long-term use of marijuana produces changes in the brain similar to those seen after long-term use of other major drugs of abuse.

Effects of marijuana on the Lungs:

Someone who smokes marijuana regularly may have many of the same respiratory problems that tobacco smokers have. These individuals may have daily cough and phlegm, symptoms of chronic bronchitis, and more frequent chest colds. Continuing to smoke marijuana can lead to abnormal functioning of lung tissue injured or destroyed by marijuana smoke.

Regardless of the THC content, the amount of tar inhaled by marijuana smokers and the level of carbon monoxide absorbed are three to five times greater than among tobacco smokers. This may be due to the marijuana users inhaling more deeply and holding the smoke in the lungs.

Effects of Marijuana on Heart Rate and Blood Pressure:

Recent findings indicate that smoking marijuana while shooting up cocaine has the potential to cause severe increases in heart rate and blood pressure. In one study, experienced marijuana and



I am not sure why parents would want to get involved in this debate..

it should most certainly be left up to the young.

cods wrote on Nov 21^st, 2011 at 10:15pm:

Cannabis needn't be smoked Cods, you can extract the cannabinoids via various methods.  It's fat soluble. So the first and last paragraph of that document are moot.  The last paragraph is a disgrace, I think you'll find vegemite toast would have the same effect after shooting up a dose of cocaine; that's a laughable conclusion at best.  

The population of the Caribbean and much of Asia where recreational, medicinal and spiritual used of Cannabis is rife, would make a mockery of the effects on both the reproductive system and health of children.  Jamaican women routinely smoke pre, peri, and post natal, with no substantial increase in birth defects in children.

Did you watch the medicine man Cods? You can watch it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvDjvnhuCd8 and I would encourage you to watch it with an open mind.

The irony here Cods is Cannabis high in CBD & CBN would substantially reduce your pain and if taken before bed will greatly increase your ability to get good, deep, recuperative sleep.  You'd wake up feeling fine.

Cannabis Sativa, which is high in THC, is very useful for treating many anxiety and depression related conditions and also aids spasticity in those with MS, Parkinson's and other tremor illnesses.

There are US Govt funded studies that show Cannabis can kill a variety of cancer cells, first discovered in 1975!! Do you not think that warrants further investigation?

Quote:

Hey? People can't and don't abuse pot? You're perspectiveless!!  :D

Fair enough, I should've qualified that statement a little more.

Yes I agree it can be abused as an escapism tool in the long term, but short term there is no evidence that one can overdose from THC toxicity, nor can they ever become physically addicted.

Amadd wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2011 at 10:02pm:

Quote: Hey? People can't and don't abuse pot? You're perspectiveless!!  :D Fair enough, I should've qualified that statement a little more. Yes I agree it can be abused as an escapism tool in the long term, but short term there is no evidence that one can overdose from THC toxicity, nor can they ever become physically addicted.

Toxicity

Toxicity is virtually nonexistent in natural marijuana. The toxicity levels of cannabis compounds are estimated at 40,000, meaning that a subject would have to ingest 40,000 times the regular dose to induce death. “In layman’s terms,” according to The New England Journal of Medicine, ”a smoker would theoretically have to consume nearly 1,500 pounds of marijuana within about fifteen minutes to induce a lethal response.” [1] While that amount of consumption is certainly an impossible feat, in comparison, legal prescription medications cause thousands of deaths per year. [2] Common household drugs are much more lethal than marijuana. For instance, a lethal dose of caffeine is equal to about 100 cups of coffee. [3]  In 1972, after reviewing the scientific evidence, the National Commission on Marijuana and Drug Abuse concluded that while marijuana was not entirely safe, its dangers had been grossly overstated. [4] Since then, researchers have conducted thousands of studies on humans, animals and cell cultures. None of those describe any findings dramatically different from those described by the National Commission in 1972. [5] In 2008, The Canadian Medical Association Journal published a review of research spanning 30 years, concluding that there are no serious adverse effects of cannabis use.[6]  Contaminants, however, are known to be hazardous, especially to those suffering from immune disorders. [7]

Related sections: Contaminants, Immune Responses, Replacement of Medications.





[1] Annas, “Reefer Madness—The federal response to California’s medical-marijuana law.” The New England Journal of Medicine, Vol. 337, No. 6, August 7, 1997

[2] “Death from drug errors rise sharply for outpatients.” The Seattle Times, Febraury 28, 1998

[3] American Psychiatric Association, Desk Reference to the Diagnostic Criteria from DSM-3-R

[4] National Commission on Marijuana and Drug Abuse, 1972

[5] Buckley, “Is marijuana fear a myth?” National Review, August 24, 1997

[6] “The adverse effects of cannabinoids: implications for use of medical marijuana” Louisa Degenhardt, MPsych(Clin) PhD and Wayne D. Hall, PhD CMAJ • June 17, 2008; 178 (13). doi:10.1503/cmaj.080585.© 2008 Canadian Medical Association or its licensors

[7] Hollister, “Health aspects of marijuana.” Pharmacological Review, Vol. 38, No. 1, 1986

Totally agree that pot should be decriminalised and properly managed. And in time most of the rest should follow.

But what are all the crooks going to do? and the people that catch them?

jame-e wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2011 at 8:39pm:

Totally agree that pot should be decriminalised and properly managed. And in time most of the rest should follow. But what are all the crooks going to do? and the people that catch them?

Back to the time honoured tradition of gambling, prostitution, racketeering, extortion and waste management; that or run for parliament.

qikvtec wrote on Nov 21^st, 2011 at 11:04pm:

cods wrote on Nov 21st, 2011 at 10:15pm: Cannabis needn't be smoked Cods, you can extract the cannabinoids via various methods.  It's fat soluble. So the first and last paragraph of that document are moot.  The last paragraph is a disgrace, I think you'll find vegemite toast would have the same effect after shooting up a dose of cocaine; that's a laughable conclusion at best.   The population of the Caribbean and much of Asia where recreational, medicinal and spiritual used of Cannabis is rife, would make a mockery of the effects on both the reproductive system and health of children.  Jamaican women routinely smoke pre, peri, and post natal, with no substantial increase in birth defects in children. Did you watch the medicine man Cods? You can watch it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvDjvnhuCd8 and I would encourage you to watch it with an open mind. The irony here Cods is Cannabis high in CBD & CBN would substantially reduce your pain and if taken before bed will greatly increase your ability to get good, deep, recuperative sleep.  You'd wake up feeling fine.Cannabis Sativa, which is high in THC, is very useful for treating many anxiety and depression related conditions and also aids spasticity in those with MS, Parkinson's and other tremor illnesses. There are US Govt funded studies that show Cannabis can kill a variety of cancer cells, first discovered in 1975!! Do you not think that warrants further investigation?

well its all in the mind of the believer isnt it..

first up you talk about the Caribbean as if these people have been the saviours of the world.. and discovered a cure for cancer... to m y knowledge I havent read where anyone from the Caribbean has ever won a Nobel Prize..maybe because they are too stoned out of their minds?? I did say maybe.

as well you admit it has some affect on the nervous system... if it helps with pain and sleep why would it not become addictive like other drugs [legal]that help with pain and sleep????


we have huge problem world wide with legal drugs... being given out illegally... Michael Jackson...

so if you campaign for legalised free market for pot... why not a free buy off the shelf campaign for legal drugs???.

we should all have the right to treat our pain or sleep problems at our own discretion without interferance from govts or the dreaded dogooder.

qikvtec wrote on Nov 17^th, 2011 at 7:21pm:

I have started this thread with the intention of bringing some information to Oz Politics members regarding Cannabis, it's medicinal and recreational use. Mods there is a discussion going on in this thread, would you mind moving the Cannabis related posts from that thread here. The war on drugs is not working, we need to address the problems as medical and not criminal issues (commercial quantities aside). Portugal has led the way on the issue. Let's discuss.

The reason the war on drugs has failed is because only one side does the dying, and has to live with the misery.
The dealers, importers and manufacturers spend a short time in a 5 star prison where they brush up on new techniques and update their phone book with new contacts for when they get out.
They may as well send them to TAFE to do a Cert III in Drug Peddling and save locking them up.
If the justice system really wants to win the war on drugs, they will need to up the ante substantially, and make the penalties so draconian that no one will want to touch the stuff.
Then we will see who wins the war on drugs.

cods wrote on Nov 24^th, 2011 at 5:51am:

qikvtec wrote on Nov 21st, 2011 at 11:04pm: cods wrote on Nov 21st, 2011 at 10:15pm: Cannabis needn't be smoked Cods, you can extract the cannabinoids via various methods.  It's fat soluble. So the first and last paragraph of that document are moot.  The last paragraph is a disgrace, I think you'll find vegemite toast would have the same effect after shooting up a dose of cocaine; that's a laughable conclusion at best.   The population of the Caribbean and much of Asia where recreational, medicinal and spiritual used of Cannabis is rife, would make a mockery of the effects on both the reproductive system and health of children.  Jamaican women routinely smoke pre, peri, and post natal, with no substantial increase in birth defects in children. Did you watch the medicine man Cods? You can watch it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvDjvnhuCd8 and I would encourage you to watch it with an open mind. The irony here Cods is Cannabis high in CBD & CBN would substantially reduce your pain and if taken before bed will greatly increase your ability to get good, deep, recuperative sleep.  You'd wake up feeling fine.Cannabis Sativa, which is high in THC, is very useful for treating many anxiety and depression related conditions and also aids spasticity in those with MS, Parkinson's and other tremor illnesses. There are US Govt funded studies that show Cannabis can kill a variety of cancer cells, first discovered in 1975!! Do you not think that warrants further investigation? 1. well its all in the mind of the believer isnt it.. 2. first up you talk about the Caribbean as if these people have been the saviours of the world.. and discovered a cure for cancer... to m y knowledge I havent read where anyone from the Caribbean has ever won a Nobel Prize..maybe because they are too stoned out of their minds?? I did say maybe. 3. as well you admit it has some affect on the nervous system... if it helps with pain and sleep why would it not become addictive like other drugs [legal]that help with pain and sleep???? 4. we have huge problem world wide with legal drugs... being given out illegally... Michael Jackson... 5. so if you campaign for legalised free market for pot... why not a free buy off the shelf campaign for legal drugs???. 6. we should all have the right to treat our pain or sleep problems at our own discretion without interferance from govts or the dreaded dogooder.

1. No it's in the mind of the researchers actually.  
2. The Caribbean has produced 5 Nobel Laureates.  For comparison Australia has produced 10.
3. Because it doesn't interact with cells in the same way.  Mixing it with tobacco, as is often the case, can make it addictive, but you are addicted to the nicotine and not the Cannabinoids
4. Ban the doctors providing them.
5. Ironically because most of them are harmful if abused.
6. How could you possibly believe that yet advocate loudly and proudly that pot should remain illegal?

My argument against legalisation is simply that smoking is anti social anyway and cannabis really stinks. Not to mention that the average pot head is generally unable to string two words together and when they can their only conversation is about their habit. ::)

Belgarion wrote on Nov 24^th, 2011 at 8:01pm:

My argument against legalisation is simply that smoking is anti social anyway and cannabis really stinks. Not to mention that the average pot head is generally unable to string two words together and when they can their only conversation is about their habit. ::)

Smoking may be anti-social, but the rest of your comment is so stereotype-based as to be ludicrous.

You've been watching too many Cheech & Chong movies.

Kat wrote on Nov 17^th, 2011 at 9:12pm:

Legalise it for both medicinal AND recreational use. No debate needed. Just DO IT!! Illegality is the crime, not use. Not that I expect the more clueless amog us to ever understand that....

Have just started reading this - and already KAT and Qikvtec (get a FORD) ;) have stated the obvious 'best practice' policy the Oz Gov. should take.  IT REALLY IS a NO-BRAINER.
I'll read on .

Well said. I am still working my way thru the posts. Good to hear some positive input.   I have no doubt as to the plant's efficacy in dealing with pain- it beats the hell out of paracetamol or opiate derivatives for its relatively harmless side-effects.

[quote Cannabis is not addictive, it has no physically addictive properties.

I don't consume cannabis for recreational purposes, I use it for pain management, usually less than .5g per day (which is bugger all).  The fact is, the illegal nature of the plant prevents me from consuming any other way; the cost would be prohibitive.

Cannabis is often known as a gateway drug, but in most cases the gateway is Tobacco or Alcohol.

Alcohol is by far a bigger problem than all other illegal drugs combined, tobacco bigger again, in fact I'd be surprised if Coffee didn't cause more issues than Cannabis.  


[/quote]
I'm assuming you smoke it?
if you do and you want to limit health problems and reduce the amount you use try a vaporizer,you will cut your usage down dramatically without the effects that combustion bring.
As for cods points
1 -pot is NOT addictive, but if you mix tobacco with it you will become addicted to the tobacco.
2 can using pot be a stepping stone to other drugs?
that's like saying smoking cigarettes will make you an alcoholic, pot itself does not cause anyone to get involved in other drugs, BUT what happens often is  people that use pot score it off people that also deal other drugs, when their dealer is out of pot they may be offered speed, acid or coke for instance, so NO pot does not lead to the consumption of other drugs, but keeping pot illegal DOES,as it often introduces the pot user to other drugs for no reason other than pot is not available. [/quote]

skippy. wrote on Nov 20^th, 2011 at 2:25pm:

Its not illegal because its addictive,what a stupid statement, if that were the case tobacco and alcohol would be illegal. Pot is illegal because of a beat up by pharmaceutical companies in the 1940s.I wish people at least attempted to find something out about a subject before they wrote crap on it.

So true Skip.  
But logic - or action for the betterment of humankind ,is trumped EVERY TIME by Money, Greed and Contempt for your fellows.

Quote:

"Marijuana and Its Receptor Protein in Brain Control Epilepsy." Sep. 30, 2003: "Individuals both here and abroad report that marijuana has been therapeutic for them in the treatment of a variety of ailments, including epilepsy. But the psychoactive side effects of marijuana make its use impractical in the treatment of epilepsy. If we can understand how marijuana works to end seizures, we may be able to develop novel drugs that might do a better job of treating epileptic seizures

- Courtesy of Muso

Here we see the scientific community's corporate approach.    >:(  $$$$$$$$$$$

'Obviously you're not aware of the fact that there are similar legalised drugs currently manufactured and distributed by multinational corporations. Such drugs have similar properties and effects (in terms of molecular structure and pain relief) as cannabis. '

So ???? what - its better to promote the drug companies and their drugs, ?? ... expensive, with many side-effects,  rather than enable those who benefit from Cannabis to grow a few plants?
FO.!!

We all pay much too much to drug companies already. You seem to be stuck in the mindset that if it is legal, it must be OK.!
HOW WRONG are you??  
Do you want me to list the legal drugs that kill people - everyday??? ..one way or the other

Because off the top of my head I could start with -

Alcohol
Tobacco
Paracetamol
Prozac
Librium
etc.
etc.
In fact, as has been said so many times before -  you can kill yourself by overuse of practically anything..

You all are smart enough to recognise this , aren't you??
Why bastardise Marijuana?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Still we will never progress when the level of debate is contained to the small minded ignorance of mums and dads whose experience and experise on the subject begins and ends with, "Drugs are bad".  - Mozzaok

Aye therein lies the rub.
Its about Politics, and most politicians believe if they took up the cudgels and tried to introduce some commonsense into the debate, where it counts, they'll get voted out. Because lets agree here- it's very hard to overcome 60+ yrs of brainwashing,...especially when the discordant voices are those who many baby-boomers/ conservatives consider are somehow sub-human- impaired, unproductive etc.  Evidence?  Cod's vehement opposition is classic.!

The Effects of Marijuana on the Female:

Just as in Males, marijuana effects the female in the part of the brain that controls the hormones, which determines the sequence in the menstrual cycle. Its been said that females who smoked or used marijuana on a regular basis had irregular menstrual cycles, the female hormones were depressed, and the testosterone level was raised. Even though this effect may be reversible, it may take several months of no marijuana use before the menstrual cycles become normal again.

Where do you get this from Cods. ?

I can , personally,  say   -  what a load of Codswallop.   AND that is also the point.  What works for one, may not work for another, BUT that is no reason to deny access, on penalty of bastardisation, ostracism, fines, jail ..etc....

Why is it so hard to get through to people??

Oh yeah - already answered that = 60+ yrs of brainwashing BS. >:(

qikvtec wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2011 at 10:07pm:

jame-e wrote on Nov 23rd, 2011 at 8:39pm: Totally agree that pot should be decriminalised and properly managed. And in time most of the rest should follow. But what are all the crooks going to do? and the people that catch them? Back to the time honoured tradition of gambling, prostitution, racketeering, extortion and waste management; that or run for parliament.

Yeah-  spot on.

Cannabis....maybe? as long as it doesn't have this affect.

andrei would agree with this person, I'm sure. I'm hoping she's not from your family andrei?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i47HoiM0Au8

She sounds JUST like some of the ratbag right in this country.

But no, cannabis doesn't usually have that effect.

Alcohol, on the other hand.......

My bet would be a fairly decent helping of Tourettes.

I tell you one things for certain though; she's damn lucky she made it off the train alive!

qikvtec wrote on Nov 29^th, 2011 at 3:30pm:

My bet would be a fairly decent helping of Tourettes.

Could be, certainly sounds like it......

Now that was an interesting vid. I don't usually check them out  but  'tram' caught my attention.

But obviously it's nothing to do with Pot.

Other dynamics play here.. Like mindless hatred.

She used her baby as a 'shield' - and her 'vulnerability' .. to slag off her fellow tram-goers.
For their race, and color?/ whatever -  

it sort of shows 'rage' - hers-!! and it's totally inappropriate..and cowardly  ... time and place...presence of children etc ..
- not a comfortable vid.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Nov 29^th, 2011 at 9:49am:

Cannabis....maybe? as long as it doesn't have this affect. andrei would agree with this person, I'm sure. I'm hoping she's not from your family andrei? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i47HoiM0Au8

She's been arrested. I hope they conduct some kind of investigation on her parenting.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2011 at 5:05pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Nov 29th, 2011 at 9:49am: Cannabis....maybe? as long as it doesn't have this affect. andrei would agree with this person, I'm sure. I'm hoping she's not from your family andrei? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i47HoiM0Au8 She's been arrested. I hope they conduct some kind of investigation on her parenting.

20 years 're-education' in the gulag should sort her out.

Nah. Just some community service doing things that will benefit the people she hurt with her filthy mouth.

And some parenting classes.

http://images.4chon.net/new/src/1322775770987.jpg

Where is that taken? Eid celebrations?

Give me a break.

its pretty funny though

what ever gets you off .......

off this thread -  methinks you have gone astray-lianna!! ;D 8-) :) :)

M2C

The government shot themselves in the foot wth this one as long time ago. If it wasn't for the draconian laws governing the personal possesion and growing for personal use, there wouldn't be this huge problem iwth highly toxic strains being bred indoors. IMO that these skunk breeds not only increase the amount of THCin the plant but also the toxins as well. No-one was ever harmed by this herb for thousands of years and was used (and still is by many cultures) for hundreds of different products covering textile, medicine and food/oil. It is one of the very few plants that has multiple uses all of which have helped mankind to evolve and grow both spiritually, commerically and agriculturally. There are very few if no other plant that comes close to having had such a widespread effect on human civilisation. So it's prostitution to the world of illegal narcotic rationalisation has led to it's barstardisation through intensive manipulation of it's genetic strains to produce some of the most toxic plant to mankind since wheat.

There is still some hope for us if we just let the dam weed grow feral in the bush, and we start growing it for it's fibre and oil instead of cotton and rape or canola seed - both of which depend heavily upon the use of toxic chemicals to make this sort of broadacre farming possible.
Relenting to the agricultural push to legalise the growing of hemp for it's fibre would massively reduce the need for the enormous inland dams in outback queensland and northern NSW and thereby take the pressure of water allocations and therefore the environmental flowons both direct and indirect would be enormous.

Plus - I've never heard of any weed freak so out of their mind going ad commiting armed robbery or otherwise to score another lot of hooch.....

And so far as the supposed mental health effects of the herb - in the 70's I met alot of spacecadets from the 60's and even the 50's who'd used bush weed most of their lives, and I can tell you I've never encountered the so-called schizophrenic debilitations that so frequently seem to occur with the widespread common use of skunk-hybrids I've heard about over the last 10-15 years.

Make it unprofitable to cultivate for anyone other than broadacre agriculturalists and I can almost guarantee a increase in GDP a lowering in crime stats, less stressed society and an increased probability of a return to fashion in wearing flairs and cheescloth tops. :)