The Hard Right wants Australians to run car on brown coal ...

How is that for stupid.

No wonder the coal-ilition is stagnating in primary vote.



Federal Liberal MP Craig Kelly, who represents Hughes in NSW

"Second, at the moment we are highly exposed to the risk of a global oil shock, but we in Australia have the ability to insulate ourselves by the development of coal liquefaction plants (coal to liquid oils technology).

"This is not pie in the sky. Germany used coal liquefaction during WWII to ensure oil supplies, the South Africans have used it for decades (brought on by sanctions), and the Chinese have opened a big plant as China, like Australia, has plenty of coal, but limited oil.

"Australia, with our abundant supplies of coal, is one of the few countries today where coal liquefaction makes economic sense.

"This is our national economic advantage, of which we must take advantage if we are doing to maintain our economic prosperity."

But the Gillard government has also embarked on the destruction of Australia's natural advantage with its introduction of the carbon dioxide tax from July 1.

Kelly argues that the international oil price makes coal-to-liquid-fuel technology viable and says there is substantially less polluting particulate matter in liquid fuel produced by such technology.

"Particulate matter kills. This is a huge issue in western Sydney which is being swept under the carpet," he says..

"The World Health Organisation has an upper recommended limit of a yearly average of 20 ug/m3 for Pm10 (a type of particulate matter). Europe has recently made a legally enforceable limit of 20 ug/m3 for a yearly average. Areas of western Sydney are sitting right on the yearly average of 20 ug/m3, and planned growth is likely to push us above this level."

He says Australia has no such yearly average limits. If we produced fuels from coal liquefaction we'd likely be able to keep under 20 ug/m3 in western Sydney.

Labor is ignoring the health of its heartland western Sydney constituents to pander to the Greens.

Kelly admits that coal liquefaction results in higher CO2 emissions than other fuels and says those whose faith tells them that CO2 is a satanic gas that must be cleansed from our world rather than being plant food -- or the gas that makes chardonnay into champagne -- think coal liquefaction is an evil.

"Therefore any report that provides evidence that we in Australia should be developing or even considering coal liquefaction plants is also an evil -- and must be destroyed, hence Report 117 disappears," he says.

Also, the upward-escalating CO2 tax kills off the economic viability of such plants in Australia.

We have an estimated 200 billion tonnes of brown coal reserves with the potential to produce an estimated 120 billion barrels of fuel oil, or 60 times as much as came out of Bass Strait back when Australia was self-sufficient in liquid fuels.

The Gillard government doesn't want you to know that we face a crisis and it certainly doesn't want you to know we hold the key to a solution.


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/all-evidence-of-this-treachery-went-down-the-memory-hole/story-e6frezz0-1226248729853

---

Where does it say the Liberals want coal-powered cars? Do you just make this up as you go?

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 20^th, 2012 at 6:30am:

Where does it say the Liberals want coal-powered cars? Do you just make this up as you go?

It doesn't.
Green only likes new technology when it suits.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 20^th, 2012 at 6:30am:

Where does it say the Liberals want coal-powered cars? Do you just make this up as you go?

woody is going to put a wind sail on his pedal car...he will thumb his nose at everyone.

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jan 20^th, 2012 at 6:52am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 6:30am: Where does it say the Liberals want coal-powered cars? Do you just make this up as you go? It doesn't. Green only likes new technology when it suits.

Paint the coal green.

Problem solved....:-)

Quote:

Federal Liberal MP Craig Kelly, who represents Hughes in NSW "Second, at the moment we are highly exposed to the risk of a global oil shock, but we in Australia have the ability to insulate ourselves by the development of coal liquefaction plants (coal to liquid oils technology). "This is not pie in the sky. Germany used coal liquefaction during WWII to ensure oil supplies, the South Africans have used it for decades (brought on by sanctions), and the Chinese have opened a big plant as China, like Australia, has plenty of coal, but limited oil. "Australia, with our abundant supplies of coal, is one of the few countries today where coal liquefaction makes economic sense. "This is our national economic advantage, of which we must take advantage if we are doing to maintain our economic prosperity." ... Kelly argues that the international oil price makes coal-to-liquid-fuel technology viable and says there is substantially less polluting particulate matter in liquid fuel produced by such technology. "Particulate matter kills. This is a huge issue in western Sydney which is being swept under the carpet," he says.. ... We have an estimated 200 billion tonnes of brown coal reserves with the potential to produce an estimated 120 billion barrels of fuel oil, or 60 times as much as came out of Bass Strait back when Australia was self-sufficient in liquid fuels.

The Flinstones of the Conservatives want to take us back to brown coal.

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jan 20^th, 2012 at 6:52am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 6:30am: Where does it say the Liberals want coal-powered cars? Do you just make this up as you go? It doesn't. Green only likes new technology when it suits.

What new technology ... Liquefying Brown Coal to Gas

New, compared to inventing the wheel?


Yabba Dabba Doooooo !

cods wrote on Jan 20^th, 2012 at 6:53am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 6:30am: Where does it say the Liberals want coal-powered cars? Do you just make this up as you go? woody is going to put a wind sail on his pedal car...he will thumb his nose at everyone.

Hydrogen from algie luv

Electricity from solar thermal electricity

etc etc


Meanwhile the conservatives solution to Peak Oil ... speeding up AGW.


dumbasses.

____ wrote on Jan 20^th, 2012 at 7:10am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 6:52am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 6:30am: Where does it say the Liberals want coal-powered cars? Do you just make this up as you go? It doesn't. Green only likes new technology when it suits. What new technology ... Liquefying Brown Coal to Gas New, compared to inventing the wheel? Yabba Dabba Doooooo !

sort of new like wind and the sun you lot have just invented you mean..Fred and Barny will be delighted

cods wrote on Jan 20^th, 2012 at 7:12am:

____ wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:10am: chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 6:52am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 6:30am: Where does it say the Liberals want coal-powered cars? Do you just make this up as you go? It doesn't. Green only likes new technology when it suits. What new technology ... Liquefying Brown Coal to Gas New, compared to inventing the wheel? Yabba Dabba Doooooo ! sort of new like wind and the sun you lot have just invented you mean..Fred and Barny will be delighted

Quote:

Germany used coal liquefaction during WWII to ensure oil supplies, the South Africans have used it for decades (brought on by sanctions)

Back to the Future with The Flintone Conservatives.

What next, conservatives will have us living in flinstone caves without electricity

the green-goober remains just as idiotic as ever. Imagine becoming self-sufficient on oil because of this. Maybe it is actually a great idea! and the fact the greens hate it makes it sounds even better since they only ever oppose good ideas.

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2012 at 7:19am:

the green-goober remains just as idiotic as ever. Imagine becoming self-sufficient on oil because of this. Maybe it is actually a great idea! and the fact the greens hate it makes it sounds even better since they only ever oppose good ideas.

So the Coal-CSG-ilition wants to destroy our ability for food security via our dirty brown coal.

Why are Coal-CSG-ition so anti Australian families being able to feed themselves?

____ wrote on Jan 20^th, 2012 at 7:22am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:19am: the green-goober remains just as idiotic as ever. Imagine becoming self-sufficient on oil because of this. Maybe it is actually a great idea! and the fact the greens hate it makes it sounds even better since they only ever oppose good ideas. So the Coal-CSG-ilition wants to destroy our ability for food security via our dirty brown coal. Why are Coal-CSG-ition so anti Australian families being able to feed themselves?

gotta love those humungous leaps of yours...  being flogged mercilessly by your political superiors (libs) must still hurt. NSW last year QLD this year, Federally this year or next.

you are doomed to irrelevancy. get used to it.

In any case how wonderful the Australian Greens, hold the balance of power in the senate.  A very good insurance policy  :)

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2012 at 7:19am:

the green-goober remains just as idiotic as ever. Imagine becoming self-sufficient on oil because of this. Maybe it is actually a great idea! and the fact the greens hate it makes it sounds even better since they only ever oppose good ideas.

I am waiting for the water into oil magic ...like the planes flying on algae I have forgotton who it was that claimed it was only a matter of time before planes would be flying on green moss..he believed it..

what about sugar cane wasnt that also going to save the brave new  world.

we have been through wind up.. and rubber bands..and now its wind and sun...the greens have all out problems solved......I wonder if they use the wheel wasnt that invented by the caveman????.. so stoneage.,

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2012 at 7:27am:

____ wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:22am: longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:19am: the green-goober remains just as idiotic as ever. Imagine becoming self-sufficient on oil because of this. Maybe it is actually a great idea! and the fact the greens hate it makes it sounds even better since they only ever oppose good ideas. So the Coal-CSG-ilition wants to destroy our ability for food security via our dirty brown coal. Why are Coal-CSG-ition so anti Australian families being able to feed themselves? gotta love those humungous leaps of yours...  being flogged mercilessly by your political superiors (libs) must still hurt. NSW last year QLD this year, Federally this year or next. you are doomed to irrelevancy. get used to it.

The connection ... Greenhouse gas from brown coal will increase our CO2 pollution ... so shift pattern and cause our agriculture (shifting rainfall) and fisheries (acidification) collapse in time.


Meanwhile if Libs are going to flog anyone ... why are their primary stagnating, since the election (41%)


D'OH!

How does producing our own oil save us from global oil price spikes.

Surely if the global price spikes, we will sell it globally.   Our oil price has been set at the Singapore rate for decades now.

Better to wean us off relying on oil so heavily.

____ wrote on Jan 20^th, 2012 at 7:49am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:27am: ____ wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:22am: longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:19am: the green-goober remains just as idiotic as ever. Imagine becoming self-sufficient on oil because of this. Maybe it is actually a great idea! and the fact the greens hate it makes it sounds even better since they only ever oppose good ideas. So the Coal-CSG-ilition wants to destroy our ability for food security via our dirty brown coal. Why are Coal-CSG-ition so anti Australian families being able to feed themselves? gotta love those humungous leaps of yours...  being flogged mercilessly by your political superiors (libs) must still hurt. NSW last year QLD this year, Federally this year or next. you are doomed to irrelevancy. get used to it. The connection ... Greenhouse gas from brown coal will increase our CO2 pollution ... so shift pattern and cause our agriculture (shifting rainfall) and fisheries (acidification) collapse in time. Meanwhile if Libs are going to flog anyone ... why are their primary stagnating, since the election (41%) D'OH!

44% moron. a figure a wanker like you cant even imagine.

There is a BIG difference between finding new, large Reserves of cheap natural Oil, to manufacturing small quantities of expensive Oil, by converting Coal.

In Australia, natural Oil discoveries has been in decline for decades & Oil production has been in decline since around 2001.

Globally, the decline in the discovery of new Oil Reserves has been applicable for around 40 years and natural Production of Oil has plateaued since 2005, ahead of an inevitable decline, which has already happened in many countries.

One such program in the pipeline.

Also under threat from a take over from the newly merged Aston and Whitehaven.

COAL TO LIQUIDS PLANT

In 2009 Coalworks signed a strategic alliance with US based Synthesis Energy Systems Inc. (SES) to conduct a feasibility study for a coal to petrol plant. The alliance would facilitate licences of the technology required for the plant. SES recently constructed and now operates a gasification plant in China using clean coal technology. As background to this alliance, Coalworks commissioned International Engineers Uhde Shedden to conduct a pre feasibility study (PFS) for the construction of a clean coal plant at Oaklands.

Past reports conclude that Oaklands coal is remarkably suitable for gasification where coal is converted to synthetic natural gas (syngas) for power or to upgrade to value added products. Gasification is a key technology for lower emissions coal because in converting the coal to syngas carbon dioxide can be captured in readiness for sequestration. Accordingly, the PFS considered 5 coal process plants of which coal to gasoline using Exxon's Methanol to Gasoline (MTG) technology was the most robust. The strategic alliance envisages SES arranging a licence from ExxonMobil of its MTG technology. Such a CTL plant would involve three major technologies to process the coal in three major steps:

(i) Coal is fed into a gasifier to create syngas;
(ii) Syngas is then reformed into methanol;
(iii) Methanol is then converted by an MTG module to gasoline;

Each component of the plant, including the three major technologies, is a commercially proven technology. The advantages of such a plant are:

•Coal is greatly upgraded in value to gasoline for fuel use
•Gasoline product can be stored in tanks and transported by rail;
•Gasoline is an excellent saleable product with strong markets and pricing
•Methanol can also be produced, stored in tanks and sold
•CTL Plant employs clean coal technology to reduce pollutants
•CTL Plant can take advantage of future rises in oil price
•CTL Plant has potential for long term profitability through large coal resource
Key factors supporting development of such a plant at Oaklands are:

•Availability of large quantity of low cost coal suitable for gasification
•Landowner strategic alliance allows flat site for CTL plant
•CTL plant is not dependant on transmission or gas infrastructure
•Rail line provides transport line to ship gasoline to market
•Ample water available
•Proximity of highly skilled workforce in regional centres to service plant

There are many misconceptions about clean coal technology. Here are some of the most frequently asked questions and Coalworks responses to them:

Q & A
Have commercial clean coal plants been built?
Yes, they have been built to commercial scale and are operating successfully. The website "Clean Coal Success Stories" refers to many of the clean coal plants featured on this page (click on "CLICK FOR MORE CLEAN COAL SUCCESS STORIES" below). We also have listed some of these plants in the panel to the left with each button linking to a photo demonstrating the commercial size of the plants.

Note: Coalworks has announced a strategic alliance with Synthesis Energy Systems Inc (Nasdaq:SYMX) to consider the feasibility of developing a gasification and liquefaction plant at its Oaklands project utilising SES proprietary U-GAS® gasification technology. 

This plant would process coal mined from the proposed Oaklands Coal mine and cleanly convert it to petrol.   This involves the coal being stockpiled before being fed into a gasification reactor to produce syngas.  The syngas is then processed to produce petrol in the remaining process plant.   

The clean coal plant allows removal of sulphur, nitrous oxides and carbon dioxide from the syngas using this commercially proven technology. U-GAS® technology has been proven on  a commercial scale with gasification plants in China, for example, at Shandong Province in China- the Hai Hua plant which has been operating since January 2008. See www.synthesisenergy.com

CLICK FOR MORE CLEAN COAL SUCCESS STORIES

Cleaner electricity is being produced from these plants which are known as integrated gasification combined cycle power stations (IGCC plants) - see Gasification below.

What about their clean coal performance?
The Puertollano Plant which is the largest IGCC plant has published performance figures showing substantial reduction in CO2 emissions and other pollutants compared with present technologies.

Carbon Capture and Storage occurs in the oil industry but has it been applied to the coal industry?
Yes, there is a large coal gasification plant in North Dakota sequestrating CO2 and piping it to Canada where it is sequestrated in depleted oil fields. This large commercial plant has been operating CCS for several years. There is a misconception that the technology is unproven or untried and thus CCS research has commenced. It is not the technology that is in issue, it is the suitability of the sequestration sites and the improvement of existing technologies for sequestration that are targeted. In summary CCS works but specific sites require differing solutions.

GASIFICATION - THE KEY TO CLEAN COAL TECHNOLOGIES
Coal gasification is the process of converting coal to a gaseous fuel through partial oxidation. The coal is fed into a high-temperature pressurized container along with steam and a limited amount of oxygen to produce a gas. The gas is known as synthesis gas or syngas and mainly consists of carbon monoxide and hydrogen. The advantage is that when you gasify to produce syngas CO2 can be captured as part of this process. Furthermore even without CCS emissions from gasification are much lower. Syngas can be used to produce electricity, gas, or synthetic fuels or major chemicals such as methanol, ammonia or urea. The synthetic fuels are purer than the fuels that are currently derived from petroleum because gasification allows removal of contaminants such as sulphur and nitrogen oxides. The IGCC plants featured above all use gasification and have superior efficiency to conventional plants meaning they emit less CO2 per tonne of coal. Key advantages of Gasification:

- Cleanest of all coal based technologies
- Uses 30% to 40% less water
- Can remove contaminants such as mercury and sulphur
- Lowers SOx and NOx emissions
- A proven and reliable technology
- More direct route to making clean burning hydrogen

NEW GENERATION CLEAN COAL PLANTS
Conventional coal fired power technology which has operated at lower temperatures (called sub critical temperature plants) has advanced to the stage where super critical and ultra supercritical plants are now being introduced. These new generation plants have much higher efficiencies meaning that less coal is consumed per megawatt of electricity produced thus lowering CO2 emissions. In addition more efficient techniques of reducing sulphur, SOx, NOx and mercury emissions are applied. The new Kogan Creek power station in Queensland is an example of a supercritical power station. In addition it has applied dry cooling in favour of water cooling to drastically reduce water usage. In March 2008 the CSIRO signed an agreement with China's thermal power institute to build a post combustion CO2 capture n plant at Huaneng Beijing Co Generation Power Plant as a research project. This would also allow older power plants to be retrofitted and made "carbon capture ready".

SEQUESTRATION OF CO2
Carbon capture and storage (CCS) is currently being demonstrated by a large commercial coal gasification plant in North Dakota at the Great Plains Gasification Plant which gasifies brown coal , captures the CO2 and then sends it by pipeline for sequestration to a depleted oil reservoir in Alberta.

CLICK FOR COAL CCS - CO2 SUCCESS STORY

Oil and gas reservoirs are a prime target for sequestration but saline aquifers have also been identified as potential reservoirs which could chemically lock the CO2 in solution if the conditions are right. For example a saline aquifer in sandstone would lock such CO2 in like a sponge absorbing water.

COALWORKS CLEAN COAL STRATEGY
Coalworks has been promoting its coal due to its excellent gasification and low sulphur qualities making it attractive for users of clean coal technologies

Coalworks has also conducted testwork on briquetting coal which reduces moisture in an endeavour to lower the CO2 emission footprint of the coal

Coalworks has commenced discussions with the NSW Government concerning the possible construction of an IGCC plant at Oaklands designed to lower CO2 emission. Government advisers have singled out Oaklands as an ideal location for a power station and Oaklands coal is excellent for gasification and has low sulphur giving excellent potential for a clean coal power station

One of the candidates for sequestration sites are deep saline aquifers. The Oaklands Basin contains saline formations extending to at least 1300m depth, with significant mudstone sealing layers, and may therefore be suitable for carbon capture and storage.

COAL TO LIQUIDS POTENTIAL
A Coal to Liquids plant using gasification at Oaklandscould be built which is capable of producing various chemicals e.g. methanol, ammonia and liquid fuels. Methanol has a number of uses including use as a blend with biofuels.

More Q&A

Is C02 sequestration a safe way of storing co2?

No. Co2 being a gas is difficult to contain. If sequestration was adopted on a wide scale the risk of major releases of co2 by human error or natural disaster (earthquake) would be very large. Once lost to the atmosphere, there is no current technology to recover it.

Are their enough sequestration locations to capture enough co2 to avert global warming?

No, the co2 produced by coal is approximately 10 times the volume of the coal that produced it. If all the depleted oil wells in the world were used to store c02, it would only equate to less than 6 months c02 emissions from coal fired power plants world wide.

Is "clean coal" a PR exercise to prolong the coal industry?

Yes, Coal itself is the most efficient form of co2 storage, and so burning it and then trying to store the co2 will remove all the cost benefits and efficiency coal brings.

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2012 at 8:32am:

____ wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:49am: longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:27am: ____ wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:22am: longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:19am: the green-goober remains just as idiotic as ever. Imagine becoming self-sufficient on oil because of this. Maybe it is actually a great idea! and the fact the greens hate it makes it sounds even better since they only ever oppose good ideas. So the Coal-CSG-ilition wants to destroy our ability for food security via our dirty brown coal. Why are Coal-CSG-ition so anti Australian families being able to feed themselves? gotta love those humungous leaps of yours...  being flogged mercilessly by your political superiors (libs) must still hurt. NSW last year QLD this year, Federally this year or next. you are doomed to irrelevancy. get used to it. The connection ... Greenhouse gas from brown coal will increase our CO2 pollution ... so shift pattern and cause our agriculture (shifting rainfall) and fisheries (acidification) collapse in time. Meanwhile if Libs are going to flog anyone ... why are their primary stagnating, since the election (41%) D'OH! 44% moron. a figure a wanker like you cant even imagine.

Libs 41%, Nats are on 3% ... coalition are getting 44%


Gee, so many errors by you longweekend, now days old man.

At least your consistent. Consistently incorrect.

____ wrote on Jan 20^th, 2012 at 7:49am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:27am: ____ wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:22am: longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:19am: the green-goober remains just as idiotic as ever. Imagine becoming self-sufficient on oil because of this. Maybe it is actually a great idea! and the fact the greens hate it makes it sounds even better since they only ever oppose good ideas. So the Coal-CSG-ilition wants to destroy our ability for food security via our dirty brown coal. Why are Coal-CSG-ition so anti Australian families being able to feed themselves? gotta love those humungous leaps of yours...  being flogged mercilessly by your political superiors (libs) must still hurt. NSW last year QLD this year, Federally this year or next. you are doomed to irrelevancy. get used to it. The connection ... Greenhouse gas from brown coal will increase our CO2 pollution ... so shift pattern and cause our agriculture (shifting rainfall) and fisheries (acidification) collapse in time. Meanwhile if Libs are going to flog anyone ... why are their primary stagnating, since the election (41%) D'OH!

The hippie Greens can only imagine in a drug fueled haze what it is like to have 41%.

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jan 20^th, 2012 at 10:06am:

____ wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:49am: longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:27am: ____ wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:22am: longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:19am: the green-goober remains just as idiotic as ever. Imagine becoming self-sufficient on oil because of this. Maybe it is actually a great idea! and the fact the greens hate it makes it sounds even better since they only ever oppose good ideas. So the Coal-CSG-ilition wants to destroy our ability for food security via our dirty brown coal. Why are Coal-CSG-ition so anti Australian families being able to feed themselves? gotta love those humungous leaps of yours...  being flogged mercilessly by your political superiors (libs) must still hurt. NSW last year QLD this year, Federally this year or next. you are doomed to irrelevancy. get used to it. The connection ... Greenhouse gas from brown coal will increase our CO2 pollution ... so shift pattern and cause our agriculture (shifting rainfall) and fisheries (acidification) collapse in time. Meanwhile if Libs are going to flog anyone ... why are their primary stagnating, since the election (41%) D'OH! The hippie Greens can only imagine in a drug fueled haze what it is like to have 41%.

At least the stagnating Libs have this to hold on, as they continual their blind leading the blind path in the political wilderness.

____ wrote on Jan 20^th, 2012 at 10:13am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 10:06am: ____ wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:49am: longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:27am: ____ wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:22am: longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:19am: the green-goober remains just as idiotic as ever. Imagine becoming self-sufficient on oil because of this. Maybe it is actually a great idea! and the fact the greens hate it makes it sounds even better since they only ever oppose good ideas. So the Coal-CSG-ilition wants to destroy our ability for food security via our dirty brown coal. Why are Coal-CSG-ition so anti Australian families being able to feed themselves? gotta love those humungous leaps of yours...  being flogged mercilessly by your political superiors (libs) must still hurt. NSW last year QLD this year, Federally this year or next. you are doomed to irrelevancy. get used to it. The connection ... Greenhouse gas from brown coal will increase our CO2 pollution ... so shift pattern and cause our agriculture (shifting rainfall) and fisheries (acidification) collapse in time. Meanwhile if Libs are going to flog anyone ... why are their primary stagnating, since the election (41%) D'OH! The hippie Greens can only imagine in a drug fueled haze what it is like to have 41%. At least the stagnating Libs have this to hold on, as they continual their blind leading the blind path in the political wilderness.

A stagnating 41% is better than the other parties eh. :)
41% is 41% in anyones language.
It's still enough to hand Labor it's deserved drubbing.

Verge wrote on Jan 20^th, 2012 at 9:23am:

There are many misconceptions about clean coal technology. Here are some of the most frequently asked questions and Coalworks responses to them: Q & A Have commercial clean coal plants been built? Yes, they have been built to commercial scale and are operating successfully. The website "Clean Coal Success Stories" refers to many of the clean coal plants featured on this page (click on "CLICK FOR MORE CLEAN COAL SUCCESS STORIES" below). We also have listed some of these plants in the panel to the left with each button linking to a photo demonstrating the commercial size of the plants. Note: Coalworks has announced a strategic alliance with Synthesis Energy Systems Inc (Nasdaq:SYMX) to consider the feasibility of developing a gasification and liquefaction plant at its Oaklands project utilising SES proprietary U-GAS® gasification technology.  This plant would process coal mined from the proposed Oaklands Coal mine and cleanly convert it to petrol.   This involves the coal being stockpiled before being fed into a gasification reactor to produce syngas.  The syngas is then processed to produce petrol in the remaining process plant.    The clean coal plant allows removal of sulphur, nitrous oxides and carbon dioxide from the syngas using this commercially proven technology. U-GAS® technology has been proven on  a commercial scale with gasification plants in China, for example, at Shandong Province in China- the Hai Hua plant which has been operating since January 2008. See www.synthesisenergy.com CLICK FOR MORE CLEAN COAL SUCCESS STORIES Cleaner electricity is being produced from these plants which are known as integrated gasification combined cycle power stations (IGCC plants) - see Gasification below. What about their clean coal performance? The Puertollano Plant which is the largest IGCC plant has published performance figures showing substantial reduction in CO2 emissions and other pollutants compared with present technologies. Carbon Capture and Storage occurs in the oil industry but has it been applied to the coal industry? Yes, there is a large coal gasification plant in North Dakota sequestrating CO2 and piping it to Canada where it is sequestrated in depleted oil fields. This large commercial plant has been operating CCS for several years. There is a misconception that the technology is unproven or untried and thus CCS research has commenced. It is not the technology that is in issue, it is the suitability of the sequestration sites and the improvement of existing technologies for sequestration that are targeted. In summary CCS works but specific sites require differing solutions. GASIFICATION - THE KEY TO CLEAN COAL TECHNOLOGIES Coal gasification is the process of converting coal to a gaseous fuel through partial oxidation. The coal is fed into a high-temperature pressurized container along with steam and a limited amount of oxygen to produce a gas. The gas is known as synthesis gas or syngas and mainly consists of carbon monoxide and hydrogen. The advantage is that when you gasify to produce syngas CO2 can be captured as part of this process. Furthermore even without CCS emissions from gasification are much lower. Syngas can be used to produce electricity, gas, or synthetic fuels or major chemicals such as methanol, ammonia or urea. The synthetic fuels are purer than the fuels that are currently derived from petroleum because gasification allows removal of contaminants such as sulphur and nitrogen oxides. The IGCC plants featured above all use gasification and have superior efficiency to conventional plants meaning they emit less CO2 per tonne of coal. Key advantages of Gasification: - Cleanest of all coal based technologies - Uses 30% to 40% less water - Can remove contaminants such as mercury and sulphur - Lowers SOx and NOx emissions - A proven and reliable technology - More direct route to making clean burning hydrogen NEW GENERATION CLEAN COAL PLANTS Conventional coal fired power technology which has operated at lower temperatures (called sub critical temperature plants) has advanced to the stage where super critical and ultra supercritical plants are now being introduced. These new generation plants have much higher efficiencies meaning that less coal is consumed per megawatt of electricity produced thus lowering CO2 emissions. In addition more efficient techniques of reducing sulphur, SOx, NOx and mercury emissions are applied. The new Kogan Creek power station in Queensland is an example of a supercritical power station. In addition it has applied dry cooling in favour of water cooling to drastically reduce water usage. In March 2008 the CSIRO signed an agreement with China's thermal power institute to build a post combustion CO2 capture n plant at Huaneng Beijing Co Generation Power Plant as a research project. This would also allow older power plants to be retrofitted and made "carbon capture ready". SEQUESTRATION OF CO2 Carbon capture and storage (CCS) is currently being demonstrated by a large commercial coal gasification plant in North Dakota at the Great Plains Gasification Plant which gasifies brown coal , captures the CO2 and then sends it by pipeline for sequestration to a depleted oil reservoir in Alberta. CLICK FOR COAL CCS - CO2 SUCCESS STORY Oil and gas reservoirs are a prime target for sequestration but saline aquifers have also been identified as potential reservoirs which could chemically lock the CO2 in solution if the conditions are right. For example a saline aquifer in sandstone would lock such CO2 in like a sponge absorbing water. COALWORKS CLEAN COAL STRATEGY Coalworks has been promoting its coal due to its excellent gasification and low sulphur qualities making it attractive for users of clean coal technologies Coalworks has also conducted testwork on briquetting coal which reduces moisture in an endeavour to lower the CO2 emission footprint of the coal Coalworks has commenced discussions with the NSW Government concerning the possible construction of an IGCC plant at Oaklands designed to lower CO2 emission. Government advisers have singled out Oaklands as an ideal location for a power station and Oaklands coal is excellent for gasification and has low sulphur giving excellent potential for a clean coal power station One of the candidates for sequestration sites are deep saline aquifers. The Oaklands Basin contains saline formations extending to at least 1300m depth, with significant mudstone sealing layers, and may therefore be suitable for carbon capture and storage. COAL TO LIQUIDS POTENTIAL A Coal to Liquids plant using gasification at Oaklandscould be built which is capable of producing various chemicals e.g. methanol, ammonia and liquid fuels. Methanol has a number of uses including use as a blend with biofuels.

Verge ... no link to your post

http://www.coalworks.com.au/clean-coal.php

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKR-6Szlv0g

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jan 20^th, 2012 at 10:17am:

____ wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 10:13am: chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 10:06am: ____ wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:49am: longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:27am: ____ wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:22am: longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:19am: the green-goober remains just as idiotic as ever. Imagine becoming self-sufficient on oil because of this. Maybe it is actually a great idea! and the fact the greens hate it makes it sounds even better since they only ever oppose good ideas. So the Coal-CSG-ilition wants to destroy our ability for food security via our dirty brown coal. Why are Coal-CSG-ition so anti Australian families being able to feed themselves? gotta love those humungous leaps of yours...  being flogged mercilessly by your political superiors (libs) must still hurt. NSW last year QLD this year, Federally this year or next. you are doomed to irrelevancy. get used to it. The connection ... Greenhouse gas from brown coal will increase our CO2 pollution ... so shift pattern and cause our agriculture (shifting rainfall) and fisheries (acidification) collapse in time. Meanwhile if Libs are going to flog anyone ... why are their primary stagnating, since the election (41%) D'OH! The hippie Greens can only imagine in a drug fueled haze what it is like to have 41%. At least the stagnating Libs have this to hold on, as they continual their blind leading the blind path in the political wilderness. A stagnating 41% is better than the other parties eh. :) 41% is 41% in anyones language. It's still enough to hand Labor it's deserved drubbing.

Is it?


Yet the election is not due for 18 months and Libs have boxed themselves into a corner, in their wilderness walkabout.

Then there is the split between Libs and Nats over the motor industry and CSG.

Will the coal-CSG-ition be still standing by the next election, or will Libs be isolated more.

Interesting times :-)

Who ever gets in at the next election will have to deal with a strong Greens Party and a few more independents in the Senate.
If the Libs get into power will Labor and the Greens continually undermine the Australian economy just as Abbott has been doing under this Govt?
They may even see fit to block supply

____ wrote on Jan 20^th, 2012 at 10:21am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 10:17am: ____ wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 10:13am: chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 10:06am: ____ wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:49am: longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:27am: ____ wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:22am: longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 7:19am: the green-goober remains just as idiotic as ever. Imagine becoming self-sufficient on oil because of this. Maybe it is actually a great idea! and the fact the greens hate it makes it sounds even better since they only ever oppose good ideas. So the Coal-CSG-ilition wants to destroy our ability for food security via our dirty brown coal. Why are Coal-CSG-ition so anti Australian families being able to feed themselves? gotta love those humungous leaps of yours...  being flogged mercilessly by your political superiors (libs) must still hurt. NSW last year QLD this year, Federally this year or next. you are doomed to irrelevancy. get used to it. The connection ... Greenhouse gas from brown coal will increase our CO2 pollution ... so shift pattern and cause our agriculture (shifting rainfall) and fisheries (acidification) collapse in time. Meanwhile if Libs are going to flog anyone ... why are their primary stagnating, since the election (41%) D'OH! The hippie Greens can only imagine in a drug fueled haze what it is like to have 41%. At least the stagnating Libs have this to hold on, as they continual their blind leading the blind path in the political wilderness. A stagnating 41% is better than the other parties eh. :) 41% is 41% in anyones language. It's still enough to hand Labor it's deserved drubbing. Is it? Yet the election is not due for 18 months and Libs have boxed themselves into a corner, in their wilderness walkabout. Then there is the split between Libs and Nats over the motor industry and CSG. Will the coal-CSG-ition be still standing by the next election, or will Libs be isolated more. Interesting times :-)

Wilderness walkabout?
Makes no difference actually.
Oppositions don't win elections remember.
They never have.
Governments lose them.
Every time.
Opposition don't implement policy.
They never have.
Governments implement policy.
Every time.
You need to keep your eye on the ball Green.
I suspect your losing eye contact.
And incompetent Labor keeps dropping the ball eh, have you noticed?.
Whatever the Coalitions stance on CSG remains to be seen when their policies are released next year, and right now their verbal on the issue means diddly squat.
It's Labors CSG policies that count right now.
It always has. :)

Liberals have already supported CSG and so supported the destruction of our food and water security.

It's both old party's policy since they are the hookers of their pimp, coal lobby.

As for oppositions don't win elections, that thinking is part of why the old parties are stagnating.



If this is the best Libs can do on peak oil, they are even lost further in the wilderness than most realised.

adelcrow wrote on Jan 20^th, 2012 at 10:35am:

Who ever gets in at the next election will have to deal with a strong Greens Party and a few more independents in the Senate. If the Libs get into power will Labor and the Greens continually undermine the Australian economy just as Abbott has been doing under this Govt? They may even see fit to block supply

I somehow doubt that....The behaviour of the independants in Canberra now is likely to turn the voters off.....and almost half of the Greens in the Senate will be up for re-election...

Quote:

We are not even meeting our international requirement under the International Energy Agency agreement to maintain a strategic petroleum reserve equal to 90 days of prior year's net oil imports -- the purpose of which is to provide economic and national security during an energy crisis. At current prices, it would cost the nation about $300 million just to buy that amount of fuel. Storage would be extra. Federal Liberal MP Craig Kelly, who represents Hughes in NSW, is justifiably alarmed by the government's attempts to hide the truth. Yesterday he said the report gave an ominous warning about supplies of conventional liquid fuel, and the risk to those supplied, which present a real danger to our nation's economic prosperity. "This is a real problem that we will have to face in years to come. So rather than face up to the problem and look at how we can try and minimise the risks -- if the report doesn't exist, the government can pretend they 'didn't know' therefore they can avoid responsibility, or public discussion," he said. "Second, at the moment we are highly exposed to the risk of a global oil shock, but we in Australia have the ability to insulate ourselves by the development of coal liquefaction plants (coal to liquid oils technology).

So we use conventional liquid fuel to run ... cars

____ wrote on Jan 20^th, 2012 at 10:17am:

Verge wrote on Jan 20th, 2012 at 9:23am: There are many misconceptions about clean coal technology. Here are some of the most frequently asked questions and Coalworks responses to them: Q & A Have commercial clean coal plants been built? Yes, they have been built to commercial scale and are operating successfully. The website "Clean Coal Success Stories" refers to many of the clean coal plants featured on this page (click on "CLICK FOR MORE CLEAN COAL SUCCESS STORIES" below). We also have listed some of these plants in the panel to the left with each button linking to a photo demonstrating the commercial size of the plants. Note: Coalworks has announced a strategic alliance with Synthesis Energy Systems Inc (Nasdaq:SYMX) to consider the feasibility of developing a gasification and liquefaction plant at its Oaklands project utilising SES proprietary U-GAS® gasification technology.  This plant would process coal mined from the proposed Oaklands Coal mine and cleanly convert it to petrol.   This involves the coal being stockpiled before being fed into a gasification reactor to produce syngas.  The syngas is then processed to produce petrol in the remaining process plant.    The clean coal plant allows removal of sulphur, nitrous oxides and carbon dioxide from the syngas using this commercially proven technology. U-GAS® technology has been proven on  a commercial scale with gasification plants in China, for example, at Shandong Province in China- the Hai Hua plant which has been operating since January 2008. See www.synthesisenergy.com CLICK FOR MORE CLEAN COAL SUCCESS STORIES Cleaner electricity is being produced from these plants which are known as integrated gasification combined cycle power stations (IGCC plants) - see Gasification below. What about their clean coal performance? The Puertollano Plant which is the largest IGCC plant has published performance figures showing substantial reduction in CO2 emissions and other pollutants compared with present technologies. Carbon Capture and Storage occurs in the oil industry but has it been applied to the coal industry? Yes, there is a large coal gasification plant in North Dakota sequestrating CO2 and piping it to Canada where it is sequestrated in depleted oil fields. This large commercial plant has been operating CCS for several years. There is a misconception that the technology is unproven or untried and thus CCS research has commenced. It is not the technology that is in issue, it is the suitability of the sequestration sites and the improvement of existing technologies for sequestration that are targeted. In summary CCS works but specific sites require differing solutions. GASIFICATION - THE KEY TO CLEAN COAL TECHNOLOGIES Coal gasification is the process of converting coal to a gaseous fuel through partial oxidation. The coal is fed into a high-temperature pressurized container along with steam and a limited amount of oxygen to produce a gas. The gas is known as synthesis gas or syngas and mainly consists of carbon monoxide and hydrogen. The advantage is that when you gasify to produce syngas CO2 can be captured as part of this process. Furthermore even without CCS emissions from gasification are much lower. Syngas can be used to produce electricity, gas, or synthetic fuels or major chemicals such as methanol, ammonia or urea. The synthetic fuels are purer than the fuels that are currently derived from petroleum because gasification allows removal of contaminants such as sulphur and nitrogen oxides. The IGCC plants featured above all use gasification and have superior efficiency to conventional plants meaning they emit less CO2 per tonne of coal. Key advantages of Gasification: - Cleanest of all coal based technologies - Uses 30% to 40% less water - Can remove contaminants such as mercury and sulphur - Lowers SOx and NOx emissions - A proven and reliable technology - More direct route to making clean burning hydrogen NEW GENERATION CLEAN COAL PLANTS Conventional coal fired power technology which has operated at lower temperatures (called sub critical temperature plants) has advanced to the stage where super critical and ultra supercritical plants are now being introduced. These new generation plants have much higher efficiencies meaning that less coal is consumed per megawatt of electricity produced thus lowering CO2 emissions. In addition more efficient techniques of reducing sulphur, SOx, NOx and mercury emissions are applied. The new Kogan Creek power station in Queensland is an example of a supercritical power station. In addition it has applied dry cooling in favour of water cooling to drastically reduce water usage. In March 2008 the CSIRO signed an agreement with China's thermal power institute to build a post combustion CO2 capture n plant at Huaneng Beijing Co Generation Power Plant as a research project. This would also allow older power plants to be retrofitted and made "carbon capture ready". SEQUESTRATION OF CO2 Carbon capture and storage (CCS) is currently being demonstrated by a large commercial coal gasification plant in North Dakota at the Great Plains Gasification Plant which gasifies brown coal , captures the CO2 and then sends it by pipeline for sequestration to a depleted oil reservoir in Alberta. CLICK FOR COAL CCS - CO2 SUCCESS STORY Oil and gas reservoirs are a prime target for sequestration but saline aquifers have also been identified as potential reservoirs which could chemically lock the CO2 in solution if the conditions are right. For example a saline aquifer in sandstone would lock such CO2 in like a sponge absorbing water. COALWORKS CLEAN COAL STRATEGY Coalworks has been promoting its coal due to its excellent gasification and low sulphur qualities making it attractive for users of clean coal technologies Coalworks has also conducted testwork on briquetting coal which reduces moisture in an endeavour to lower the CO2 emission footprint of the coal Coalworks has commenced discussions with the NSW Government concerning the possible construction of an IGCC plant at Oaklands designed to lower CO2 emission. Government advisers have singled out Oaklands as an ideal location for a power station and Oaklands coal is excellent for gasification and has low sulphur giving excellent potential for a clean coal power station One of the candidates for sequestration sites are deep saline aquifers. The Oaklands Basin contains saline formations extending to at least 1300m depth, with significant mudstone sealing layers, and may therefore be suitable for carbon capture and storage. COAL TO LIQUIDS POTENTIAL A Coal to Liquids plant using gasification at Oaklandscould be built which is capable of producing various chemicals e.g. methanol, ammonia and liquid fuels. Methanol has a number of uses including use as a blend with biofuels. Verge ... no link to your post http://www.coalworks.com.au/clean-coal.php http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKR-6Szlv0g

I should have put the link in but I missed it.

Coalworks is a company who is trying to do what you say shouldnt be, yet they have the evidence to say its not what you claim it is.

Isnt this is what the carbon tax is all about, using technology to improve the way things are done to have a less impact on the environment?

Coal to liquids is not the same coal to liquids it was 20 years ago.

LNC (Linc Energy ?) has been doing this coal to diesel conversion up in Queensland for a few years now using the Fischer-Tropf process pioneered in Germany during WW2 when Hitler was having trouble getting fuel for his war machine.

Linc even drove a GOLF diesel car round a lot of Australia about a year ago using their own diesel to publicize their success.

Seaweed biofuel could become alternative to oil, coal

Seaweed "cost-competitive alternative" to oil
Scientists in Chile working on technology
Technology could evolve within three years

THE humble seaweed could become a real biofuel alternative to coal and oil as scientists say they have unlocked the secret of turning its sugar into energy.
A newly engineered microbe can do the work by metabolising all of the major sugars in brown seaweed, potentially making it a cost-competitive alternative to petroleum fuel, said the report in the US journal Science.

The team working on the breakthrough say the technology could be developed to lead to commercialisation within the next three years.

The team at the Berkeley, California-based Bio Architecture Lab engineered a form of E. coli bacteria that can digest the seaweed's sugars into ethanol, it said.

Unlike other microbes before, researchers found it can attack the primary sugar constituent in seaweed, known as alginate.

"Our scientists have engineered an enzyme to degrade and a pathway to metabolise the alginate, allowing us to utilise all the major sugars in seaweed, said Daniel Trunfio, chief executive officer at Bio Architecture Lab.

The advance "makes the biomass an economical feedstock for the production of renewable fuels and chemicals," he said.

A company spokesman told AFP that the lab currently has four aquafarming sites in Chile where it hopes to "scale up its microbe technology as the next step on the path to commercialisation" in the next three years.

Seaweed is seen as an appealing option for biofuel because, unlike corn and sugar cane, it does not use arable land and so does not compete with crops grown for food.

Less than three percent of the world's coastal waters can produce enough seaweed to replace some 60 billion gallons of fossil fuel, according to background information in the article.

At peak production, seaweed could produce 19,000 litres per hectare annually, about twice the level of ethanol productivity from sugarcane and five times higher than the ethanol productivity from corn.

Funding for the research came from the US Department of Energy's Advanced Research Projects Agency, a grant from InnovaChile, and Norwegian oil giant Statoil.


http://www.news.com.au/technology/sci-tech/seaweed-biofuel-could-become-alternative-to-oil-coal/story-fn5fsgyc-1226249045900



The only reason Libs are pushing coal is for the coal lobby donations they rely on.

Phase out coal and Liberals are bankrupt.

Follow the money trail of Liberal polices.


Oil from brown coal is old technology, not suited to this human warming period.


Consider this, Climate Change threatens the superannuation of all Australians ... including the rich.