The Chicken or the Egg?

The egg came first because the mutations that made the chicken we know today happen in a generational process.
The chicken that gave birth to the egg would not be the chicken we know today, but the egg is.. due to gene mutation that was not present in the previous generation.
So definetley the egg.

bobbythefap1 wrote on Feb 28^th, 2012 at 9:47am:

The egg came first because the mutations that made the chicken we know today happen in a generational process. The chicken that gave birth to the egg would not be the chicken we know today, but the egg is.. due to gene mutation that was not present in the previous generation. So definetley the egg.

So what came first the previous version of the chicken or the egg?

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Feb 28^th, 2012 at 12:27pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Feb 28th, 2012 at 9:47am: The egg came first because the mutations that made the chicken we know today happen in a generational process. The chicken that gave birth to the egg would not be the chicken we know today, but the egg is.. due to gene mutation that was not present in the previous generation. So definetley the egg. So what came first the previous version of the chicken or the egg?

Same dealio

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Feb 28^th, 2012 at 7:33am:

The Chicken or the Egg?

knowing what males can be like, probably the rooster....

The Chicken or the egg causality dilemma is commonly stated as "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" To ancient philosophers, the question about the first chicken or egg also evoked the questions of how life and the universe in general began.[1]

Cultural references to the chicken and egg intend to point out the futility of identifying the first case of a circular cause and consequence. It could be considered that in this approach lies the most fundamental nature of the question. A literal answer is somewhat obvious, as egg-laying species pre-date the existence of chickens. However, the metaphorical view sets a metaphysical ground to the dilemma. To better understand its metaphorical meaning, the question could be reformulated as: "Which came first, X that can't come without Y, or Y that can't come without X?"

An equivalent situation arises in engineering and science known as circular reference, in which a parameter is required to calculate that parameter itself. Examples are Van der Waals equation and the famous Colebrook equation.

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The theory of evolution states that species change over time via mutation and sexual reproduction. Since DNA (deoxyribonucleic acid) can be modified only before birth, a mutation must have taken place at conception or within an egg such that an animal similar to a chicken, but not a chicken, laid the first chicken eggs. These eggs then hatched into chickens that inbred to produce a living population.[12][13] Hence, in this light, both the chicken and the structure of its egg evolved simultaneously from birds that, while not of the same exact species, gradually became more and more like present-day chickens over time.

Not any mutation in one individual can be considered as constituting a new species. A speciation event involves the separation of one population from its parent population, so that interbreeding ceases; this is the process whereby domesticated animals are genetically separated from their wild forebears. The whole separated group can then be recognized as a new species.

The modern chicken was believed to have descended from another closely related species of birds, the red junglefowl, but recently discovered genetic evidence suggests that the modern domestic chicken is a hybrid descendant of both the red junglefowl and the grey junglefowl.[14] Assuming the evidence bears out, a hybrid is a compelling scenario that the chicken egg, based on the second definition, came before the chicken.

This implies that the egg existed long before the chicken, but that the chicken egg did not exist until an arbitrary threshold was crossed that differentiates a modern chicken from its ancestors. Since this arbitrary distinction cannot be made until after the egg has hatched, one would have to first find the original chicken, then from this find the first egg it laid.
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While it appears to be a circular problem if I had to choose an answer from the choice of the two it would be ... the egg came first.

Wouldm't the chicken just have laid eggs from the outset?

An ancestor of the chicken might have produced soft gluggy eggs (think frogs) and over a heap of evolution that may have turned into the hard shelled things well now all know and love - with the chicken itself carrying the mutation to lay the hardshelled egg - not the other way around.

I'd put my money on the chicken - or it's distant relative.

Then again..... God created the chicken that layed eggs and God said it was good. Final story, but again the chicken.

Unless....

God created the egg and from that was layed the first chicken and God said it was good.

Alas that chicken pecked around for a few years and then died of loneliness.

Life_goes_on wrote on Feb 28^th, 2012 at 9:04pm:

Wouldm't the chicken just have laid eggs from the outset? An ancestor of the chicken might have produced soft gluggy eggs (think frogs) and over a heap of evolution that may have turned into the hard shelled things well now all know and love - with the chicken itself carrying the mutation to lay the hardshelled egg - not the other way around. I'd put my money on the chicken - or it's distant relative.

I follow the logic. The mutation had to be contained in an egg that was not from a chicken. Only when the chicken hatched from the non-chicken egg did the first chicken arrive to lay the first chicken egg.

I think now I have to go chicken following that logic.

However, the question did not specify a chicken egg. So if the chicken come from a non-chicken egg, an egg all the same... then it is egg.

However consider the first egg. A mutation had to occur in a pre-chicken bird/reptile however it was gestated to form the first egg..... so it has to be the first egg laying reptile/chicken.

Ummm.... I think it has to be the chicken.... thanks for helping me clarify my thinking, I think. :)

I'm sure this debate will still be going on in 100yrs.  ::) who care's we have them now, thats all that matters.

Well eggs were around at least 190 million years ago. The species were different then (sauropods), but that common structure persisted right up to the first birds that we could call proto-chickens. The archeopterix was arguably one of the first birds and it too was hatched from eggs, and it existed long before the modern chicken was even a twinkle in the eye of the rooster.  ;D

http://blogs.sundaymercury.net/weirdscience/dinoEggs.jpg

Eggs were around for hundreds of millions of years before the first chicken.
Dilemma? What dilemma?

The first multiple cell organism came first, from there all things evolved. sorry god created it all how silly of me.

The chicken.

If you don't know why by now, you're never going to get it.

nairbe wrote on Mar 7^th, 2012 at 9:46pm:

The first multiple cell organism came first, from there all things evolved. sorry god created it all how silly of me.

and you think this because ...........

Sprintcyclist wrote on Mar 8^th, 2012 at 7:52am:

nairbe wrote on Mar 7th, 2012 at 9:46pm: The first multiple cell organism came first, from there all things evolved. sorry god created it all how silly of me. and you think this because ...........

Which part, the scientific theory of probability or the fairy tale of the bible.

The chicken came first.

What else sat on the first egg until it hatched?

Who came first?

We're all descended from one of only half dozen females... and only one male, who lived tens of thousands of years after our earliest female descendant.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 10^th, 2012 at 8:07am:

Who came first? We're all descended from one of only half dozen females... and only one male, who lived tens of thousands of years after our earliest female descendant.

How did that first male come about? Must have been virgin birth.

Soren wrote on Mar 10^th, 2012 at 8:49am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 10th, 2012 at 8:07am: Who came first? We're all descended from one of only half dozen females... and only one male, who lived tens of thousands of years after our earliest female descendant. How did that first male come about? Must have been virgin birth.

Yeah that....

Or all his ancestors' DNA did not survive.

nairbe wrote on Mar 7^th, 2012 at 9:46pm:

The first multiple cell organism came first, from there all things evolved. sorry god created it all how silly of me.

One would assume that the single-celled organism preceded the multiple-cell organism...

Eggs come from chickens. The first chicken to lay an egg came from an egg laid by a dinosaur ancestor.(also an egg layer)

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