New South Wales Police have rejected calls for the use of Tasers to be suspended after the death of a man in Sydney's CBD over the weekend.

Police are still trying to identify the man who died after officers used capsicum spray and a Taser on him in Sydney's CBD early on Sunday morning, but believe he may have been South American.

The man was initially thought to have been involved in a robbery of a convenience store in The Rocks, but police have since admitted they are not sure they had the right person.

They say the man was tasered after he resisted arrest.

Civil rights groups say the incident shows that Tasers are not a safe substitute for lethal force.

And while police say they will conduct a thorough investigation into the incident, Greens state MP David Shoebridge says Taser use should be suspended to allow for an urgent independent inquiry.

"We're seeing an increased use of Tasers here in New South Wales," he said.

"And it was really - with the number of Taser uses here that we've seen in the last few years - almost inevitable that we will see more deaths caused by police Taser use."

Police say they prefer to have a Taser as an option because it is safer than a firearm.

But Mr Shoebridge says statistics do not show that Tasers are displacing firearms as a weapon of choice.

"In fact, firearm use and firearm draws by the New South Wales Police have remained effectively constant since Tasers were rolled out," he said.

"It's just that police are now also using Tasers, and they drew firearms and Tasers some 1,200 times in 2010, which is the last year we had full figures for.

"It's just another whole range of use of force by New South Wales Police."

Assistant Commissioner Alan Clarke has defended the use of Tasers, saying the success of the stun guns has been proven.

"Tasers are introduced in situations where police are under direct threat," he said.

And he rejected the calls for a moratorium on the use of stun guns.

"If we did that we would just introduce a whole range of risks that existed before Tasers were introduced and those risks would relate to police and public safety," he said.

Mr Shoebridge says he is not satisfied that the internal police inquiry will get to the bottom of the matter.

"There's a real concern when you have police investigating police on critical incidents involving the death of a citizen," he said.

"There are already a large number of question marks over this incident, and again it's proof of the fact that we need to have independent investigators on the ground within that golden hour after a death and after a serious incident.

"There are many people here in New South Wales who don't have confidence in the history and the record of police investigating police."

Mr Shoebridge says an urgent review into Taser use is needed.

"We need the review to look at how to minimise the number of Taser uses here in NSW," he said.

"Every time a Taser is fired, that's 50,000 volts being sent to a citizen courtesy of the NSW Police and there is a reasonable likelihood that if you do that repeatedly there will be more deaths."

Statistics from the United States show that in the last decade there have been 500 law enforcement-related Taser deaths in the United States.

There will be an autopsy on the man's body today.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-19/taser-debate-resurfaces-after-death-of-man/3897430?section=nsw

Poll

A taser used on me indiscriminately would kill me instantly.  Police feel much less constrained about using this as a weapon, but for some it is just as lethal as a pistol and the Police are more entitled to use it freely. :(

I oppose (as apposed to appose).... ;D

.......Greens state (appointed) MLC David Shoebridge should maybe join in on a few policing incidents and apprehend a few crazies unarmed.  >:(

Tasers are essentially instruments of torture, and should NEVER have been allowed.

Tazering an innocent man and killing him just shows we are scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to police recruiting.
I have no problems with the police having pepper spray and tazers but they shouldnt use them as an easy fix.
Lets face it...some police are just pathetic losers who should be doing something else for a living.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USAEABEE_xc

adelcrow wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 7:48am:

Lets face it...some police are just pathetic losers who should be doing something else for a living.

They'd be better suited as Greens MPs......?

Perhaps if Police were executed for wrongful or indiscriminately discharging a taser causing the death of an innocent person we could accept it.  If I were killed by a trigger happy cop using one of these weapons, I believe he should be hung.  The taser places the force option too readily in a Police officers hands and his powers to be able to use force are not unlimited.  For instance, I am an innocent person minding my own business who just happens not to like living under a Socialist Government Police state dictatorship.  I am approached on the street by a Police officer who demands to see my ID - I politely refuse and walk off - he draws his taser and shoots me in the back killing me instantly because I did not obey a directive I did not believe I lawfully should have to.  That Police Officer just committed cold blooded murder.  The art of Policing is not about the use of force, it is about avoiding having to use it, the Police should not be issued fire arms let alone tasers - and Australia was a much better and safer place when police were not armed. 8-) 8-) 8-)

Swagman wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 7:51am:

adelcrow wrote on Mar 19th, 2012 at 7:48am: Lets face it...some police are just pathetic losers who should be doing something else for a living. They'd be better suited as Greens MPs......?

or forum trolls  ;D

corporate_whitey wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 7:52am:

Perhaps if Police were executed for wrongful or indiscriminately discharging a taser causing the death of an innocent person we could accept it.  If I were killed by a trigger happy cop using one of these weapons, I believe he should be hung.  The taser places the force option too readily in a Police officers hands and his powers to bbe able to use force are not unlimited.  For instance, I am an innocent person minding mny own business who just happens not to like living under a Police state dictatorship.  I am approached on the street by a Police officer who demands to see my ID - I politely refuse and walk off - he draws his taser and shoots me in the back killing me instantly because I did not obey a directive I did not believe I lawfully should have to.  That Police Officer just committed cold blooded murder.  The art of Policing is not about the use of force, it is about avoiding having to use it, the Police should not be issued fire arms let alone tasers - and Australia was a much better and safer place when police were not armed. 8-) 8-) 8-)

......I think YOU are a Greens MP?  Are you David Shoebridge?
:-?

Swagman wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 7:57am:

corporate_whitey wrote on Mar 19th, 2012 at 7:52am: Perhaps if Police were executed for wrongful or indiscriminately discharging a taser causing the death of an innocent person we could accept it.  If I were killed by a trigger happy cop using one of these weapons, I believe he should be hung.  The taser places the force option too readily in a Police officers hands and his powers to bbe able to use force are not unlimited.  For instance, I am an innocent person minding mny own business who just happens not to like living under a Police state dictatorship.  I am approached on the street by a Police officer who demands to see my ID - I politely refuse and walk off - he draws his taser and shoots me in the back killing me instantly because I did not obey a directive I did not believe I lawfully should have to.  That Police Officer just committed cold blooded murder.  The art of Policing is not about the use of force, it is about avoiding having to use it, the Police should not be issued fire arms let alone tasers - and Australia was a much better and safer place when police were not armed. 8-) 8-) 8-) ......I think YOU are a Greens MP?  Are you David Shoebridge? :-?

Do you agree that if a trigger happy Police Officer kills an innocent person by negligently and deliberately discharging a lethal weapon that he should be hung?  Do you believe Police have the right to use tasers on innocent citizens for defiance and non cooperation?  The guidelines on the use of these lethal weapons are not even defined its a farce. 8-)

corporate_whitey wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 8:02am:

Swagman wrote on Mar 19th, 2012 at 7:57am: corporate_whitey wrote on Mar 19th, 2012 at 7:52am: Perhaps if Police were executed for wrongful or indiscriminately discharging a taser causing the death of an innocent person we could accept it.  If I were killed by a trigger happy cop using one of these weapons, I believe he should be hung.  The taser places the force option too readily in a Police officers hands and his powers to bbe able to use force are not unlimited.  For instance, I am an innocent person minding mny own business who just happens not to like living under a Police state dictatorship.  I am approached on the street by a Police officer who demands to see my ID - I politely refuse and walk off - he draws his taser and shoots me in the back killing me instantly because I did not obey a directive I did not believe I lawfully should have to.  That Police Officer just committed cold blooded murder.  The art of Policing is not about the use of force, it is about avoiding having to use it, the Police should not be issued fire arms let alone tasers - and Australia was a much better and safer place when police were not armed. 8-) 8-) 8-) ......I think YOU are a Greens MP?  Are you David Shoebridge? :-? Do you agree that if a trigger happy Police Officer kills an innocent person by negligently and deliberately discharging a lethal weapon that he should be hung?  Do you believe Police have the right to use tasers on innocent citizens for defiance and non cooperation?  The guidelines on the use of these lethal weapons are not even defined its a farce. 8-)

I believe the police have a right to protect themselves from violent & aggressive members of the public.

Even if this incident is proven to be one of negligence or criminal culpability on the part of the officer or officers involved it does not warrant the removal of fire arms or tazers from law enforcement.

Swagman wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 8:15am:

corporate_whitey wrote on Mar 19th, 2012 at 8:02am: Swagman wrote on Mar 19th, 2012 at 7:57am: corporate_whitey wrote on Mar 19th, 2012 at 7:52am: Perhaps if Police were executed for wrongful or indiscriminately discharging a taser causing the death of an innocent person we could accept it.  If I were killed by a trigger happy cop using one of these weapons, I believe he should be hung.  The taser places the force option too readily in a Police officers hands and his powers to bbe able to use force are not unlimited.  For instance, I am an innocent person minding mny own business who just happens not to like living under a Police state dictatorship.  I am approached on the street by a Police officer who demands to see my ID - I politely refuse and walk off - he draws his taser and shoots me in the back killing me instantly because I did not obey a directive I did not believe I lawfully should have to.  That Police Officer just committed cold blooded murder.  The art of Policing is not about the use of force, it is about avoiding having to use it, the Police should not be issued fire arms let alone tasers - and Australia was a much better and safer place when police were not armed. 8-) 8-) 8-) ......I think YOU are a Greens MP?  Are you David Shoebridge? :-? Do you agree that if a trigger happy Police Officer kills an innocent person by negligently and deliberately discharging a lethal weapon that he should be hung?  Do you believe Police have the right to use tasers on innocent citizens for defiance and non cooperation?  The guidelines on the use of these lethal weapons are not even defined its a farce. 8-) I believe the police have a right to protect themselves from violent & aggressive members of the public. Even if this incident is proven to be one of negligence or criminal culpability on the part of the officer or officers involved it does not warrant the removal of fire arms or tazers from law enforcement.

I believe a Police officer has not got the right to carry a weapon in self defense any more than the rest of us do.  If Police have the right to carry weapons for self defense everybody should.  If someone drew a gun or taser and shot at me just because I walked off and would not show him my ID, I would at least want to be able to return fire to defend myself if I could from such an unlawful attempt to kill me.  Or we could just admit the argument of self defense for carrying lethal weapons is not a legitimate one. 8-)

I support an independent inquiry. The cops are not using them as a weapon of second last resort are they?

Killed for a $2.50 packet of biscuits, if in fact he was the culprit. Pathetic policing.

We where told tasers would only be used for life and death situations where the only alternative was the use of deadly force......We where told tasers would not be used to gain compliance from difficult individuals.....We where lied to as usual!!!

>:( >:( >:(

Spratt tasered up to 41 times

Kevin Spratt was tasered up to 41 times in a week and went to hospital with fractures, a collapsed lung and a dislocated shoulder after being taken out of his cell by a special ‘cell extraction’ team, a Corruption and Crime Commission inquiry has been told.

Mr Spratt’s fiancée broke down in tears today as the CCC was shown confronting footage of him being repeatedly tasered by prison officers in riot gear.

The tasering of Mr Spratt by WA Police and specialist DCS emergency support group officers during his arrest, detention and investigation is the subject of the public hearings.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/8483554/spratt-tasered-up-to-41-times/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCwH6haU9XM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsNeY91paBQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiWHeJloS1I&feature=related

____ wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 7:17am:

Poll

I guess we know where the greens stand on law and order if they want to disarm the police.

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 10:06am:

____ wrote on Mar 19th, 2012 at 7:17am: Poll I guess we know where the greens stand on law and order if they want to disarm the police.

Yes we do know.

Greens support law and order yet oppose the Right's support of killing innocent people while hiding behind the rhetoric of law and order.

The greens ideologies conflict yet again.
On the one hand, we "need" gender equality in the police force, but on the other, they want to take away the only weapon that enables chicks to cut it. Does feminism trump pacifism?

... wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 10:59am:

The greens ideologies conflict yet again. On the one hand, we "need" gender equality in the police force, but on the other, they want to take away the only weapon that enables chicks to cut it. Does feminism trump pacifism?

So you think taser use should be limited to female police.


Well it's a start.

So are you against an independent enquiry into tasers?

Keep them.

They do the job.

____ wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 11:38am:

... wrote on Mar 19th, 2012 at 10:59am: The greens ideologies conflict yet again. On the one hand, we "need" gender equality in the police force, but on the other, they want to take away the only weapon that enables chicks to cut it. Does feminism trump pacifism? So you think taser use should be limited to female police. Well it's a start. So are you against an independent enquiry into tasers?

I'm for high entry standrds into critical services like police.  That means entry is based on merit, not ideological grounds, and if you want women to be on the "frontline" they need more tools such as tasers to avoid becoming a cropper.

I think they are used too freely, and I wouldn't be sad to see them go.  But my interest here is in seeing which "ism" the greens think takes precedence.

I am for keeping them if they have cameras attached, and or police are filmed somehow else.
And if investigations are done externally and not by the police themselves.
And if head, spine and chest shots are made illegal.

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 11:45am:

I am for keeping them if they have cameras attached, and or police are filmed somehow else. And if investigations are done externally and not by the police themselves. And if head, spine and chest shots are made illegal.

They have to fire at the chest, otherwise they're going to miss most of the time. 

... wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 11:54am:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 19th, 2012 at 11:45am: I am for keeping them if they have cameras attached, and or police are filmed somehow else. And if investigations are done externally and not by the police themselves. And if head, spine and chest shots are made illegal. They have to fire at the chest, otherwise they're going to miss most of the time.

I am slightly worried if people who carry guns for a living cant aim

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 11:55am:

... wrote on Mar 19th, 2012 at 11:54am: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 19th, 2012 at 11:45am: I am for keeping them if they have cameras attached, and or police are filmed somehow else. And if investigations are done externally and not by the police themselves. And if head, spine and chest shots are made illegal. They have to fire at the chest, otherwise they're going to miss most of the time.  I am slightly worried if people who carry guns for a living cant aim

They're tasers, not sniper rifles.  They fire two electrodes, not a single bullet and thus need a much bigger target to attach to.

... wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 11:58am:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 19th, 2012 at 11:55am: ... wrote on Mar 19th, 2012 at 11:54am: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 19th, 2012 at 11:45am: I am for keeping them if they have cameras attached, and or police are filmed somehow else. And if investigations are done externally and not by the police themselves. And if head, spine and chest shots are made illegal. They have to fire at the chest, otherwise they're going to miss most of the time.  I am slightly worried if people who carry guns for a living cant aim They're tasers, not sniper rifles.  They fire two electrodes, not a single bullet and thus need a much bigger target to attach to.

Right and you fire tasers from a few feet away and snipers from hundreds of metres.
They would still have the belly to aim at anyway, just not the heart region.

____ wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 10:38am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 19th, 2012 at 10:06am: ____ wrote on Mar 19th, 2012 at 7:17am: Poll I guess we know where the greens stand on law and order if they want to disarm the police. Yes we do know. Greens support law and order yet oppose the Right's support of killing innocent people while hiding behind the rhetoric of law and order.

Maybe you should cite some stats on the number of 'innocent' people killed by police compared to the number of arrests made for violent crime to support your [non]argument?

Australian Institute of Criminology

In 2010 according to AIC there were 204,025 violent crimes. 


Quote:

Violent crime includes homicide, assault, sexual assault, robbery and kidnapping (sometimes referred to as abduction). Although robbery may include an element of property crime, it is included as a violent crime, as the use or threat of violence is considered a more serious offence than the theft.

If you do away with tasers, there will be a surge in the number of broken bones inflicted as the cops resort to use of the nightstick instead.
I'm fine with that - but would the hippy brigade who like to yell "police brutality" at the slightest touch be? 

We where told tasers would only be used for life and death situations where a firearm would be the only alternative.....We where told they would not be used to enforce compliance of difficult suspects.....There are other alternatives to a taser such as pepper spray or negotiation....Police just see tasers as an easy way to do their job without doing the hard work required to ensure everyone's safety....A review and better training is essential to ensure the safety of the public and proper use by police.....Tasers have a counter on them that indicates how many times they have been fired and at what setting was used just so you know!!!

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 10:06am:

____ wrote on Mar 19th, 2012 at 7:17am: Poll I guess we know where the greens stand on law and order if they want to disarm the police.

I would support an enquiry on the use of tasers.
50K volts on the chest over the heart region is not a good idea at any time, unless of course you want to kill someone that is.
Tasers however, is still a better idea than shooting the perpetrator in the chest though.
I think the moral to the story is when the nice policeman is giving direction, the public must comply.

... wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 12:10pm:

If you do away with tasers, there will be a surge in the number of broken bones inflicted as the cops resort to use of the nightstick instead. I'm fine with that - but would the hippy brigade who like to yell "police brutality" at the slightest touch be?

Just remember, in a fair fight, the Police officer is just as likely to end up with his nose spread across his face or a busted Jaw.  police officers do not just have the freedom to pull batons for the sake of it, especially if they have initiated the violence.  If it comes down to it, a copper has to throw hands if that is the only threat he faces...The thing is a welfare state requires police  extending the privilege of reasonable force to crush the working classes and destroy their families.  Policing is too tough for some people, thats why there are never enough weapons... 8-)

A Copper could pick a fight with a cage fighter or Muay Thai fighter by mistake and get his head kicked in, it happens and you do not just have the right to use weapons. 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)

corporate_whitey wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 1:34pm:

A Copper could pick a fight with a cage fighter or Muay Thai fighter by mistake and get his head kicked in, it happens and you do not just have the right to use weapons. 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)

They'll tell you they do have the right.  If you argue the point, expect a tonfa in the ribs, or a faceful of pepper spray.
But if they didn't have the right, you wouldn't have a police force anymore - who'd be a copper if you're bound by rules of enagement that the other party is not? 

... wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 1:42pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on Mar 19th, 2012 at 1:34pm: A Copper could pick a fight with a cage fighter or Muay Thai fighter by mistake and get his head kicked in, it happens and you do not just have the right to use weapons. 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) They'll tell you they do have the right.  If you argue the point, expect a tonfa in the ribs, or a faceful of pepper spray. But if they didn't have the right, you wouldn't have a police force anymore - who'd be a copper if you're bound by rules of enagement that the other party is not?

Take it from someone who knows Police SOP and the legal parameters for the use of reasonable force pal - if all a copper is confronted with is a fist fight, then that is the only force he is allowed to engage in.  A baton or capsicum spray is excessive force under those circumstances because they are not confronted with an armed offender, they are just frustrated scared sissies who are not capable of handling the situation.  And they are the worse cops, nobody wants to work with them...  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Why didn't the seven cops put in 50 cents each for the biscuits and leave it at that? too easy. Who would call the cops because someone nicked a packet of biscuits?

A packet of dam biscuits.... the gollywogs!

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 3:03pm:

Why didn't the seven cops put in 50 cents each for the biscuits and leave it at that? too easy. Who would call the cops because someone nicked a packet of biscuits? A packet of dam biscuits.... the gollywogs!

But where do you draw the line?  $3.50 - let it slide.  What about $10?  100?  1000?

Besides, how the hell were they supposed to know he'd die?

adelcrow wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 7:48am:

Tazering an innocent man and killing him just shows we are scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to police recruiting. I have no problems with the police having pepper spray and tazers but they shouldnt use them as an easy fix. Lets face it...some police are just pathetic losers who should be doing something else for a living. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USAEABEE_xc

Yeah, you weren't there so shut up. I've read that the guy was aggressive toward Police and they used CS spray on him first before using the taser. I think the cops would have had a good reason for going from spray to taser.

Having said that, I'd like to see our Police trial a gun that utilised a "bean bag" projectile. It's painful, but not lethal. Police in the US such as SWAT officers use them regularly in specially modified pump-action shotguns with great effect. As far as I know, no one has died from a bean bag shot.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 3:03pm:

Why didn't the seven cops put in 50 cents each for the biscuits and leave it at that? too easy. Who would call the cops because someone nicked a packet of biscuits? A packet of dam biscuits.... the gollywogs!

Because shoplifting is a crime. Too simple for a simpleton like you to understand that concept???