Victoria has apx 430, 000, 000 000 tonnes of brown coal.

Should it be burn't?


Quote:

Uses Because of its low energy density and typically high moisture content, brown coal is inefficient to transport and is not traded extensively on the world market compared with higher coal grades. It is often burned in power stations constructed very close to any mines, such as in Australia's Latrobe Valley and Luminant's Monticello plant in Texas. Primarily because of latent high moisture content of brown coal, carbon dioxide emissions from traditional brown-coal-fired plants are generally much higher than for comparable black-coal plants, with the world's highest-emitting being Hazelwood Power Station, Victoria.[4] The operation of traditional brown-coal plants, particularly in combination with strip mining, can be politically contentious due to environmental concerns.[5][6]

Wikipedia


MASSIVE new stocks of Victorian coal will be exported to China, India and Japan in a multi-billion dollar plan that is expected to create thousands of new jobs and kick-start the economy.


The Baillieu Government is planning to unlock vast resources of brown coal in the Latrobe Valley in a controversial plan to fire overseas power stations and bring the resources boom to Victoria.

Energy Minister Michael O'Brien yesterday confirmed the Coalition was seeking expressions of interest for new allocations of coal that were hoped to deliver hundreds of millions of dollars in royalties, as well as billions of dollars of investment in mines, processing and infrastructure.

The move flies in the face of the Gillard Government's efforts to slow greenhouse gas emissions through the carbon tax and will inflame environmental groups and the Greens.

But Mr O'Brien said the Baillieu Government was determined to make the most of one of the world's biggest deposits of brown coal.

"The Government believes that brown coal can and should play a key role in our energy future," Mr O'Brien said.

"Encouraging new investors and the right technologies could deliver a new generation of industry in the Latrobe Valley, boosting the local economy and creating new jobs."

Victoria is sitting on an estimated 430 billion tonnes of brown coal, of which 33 billion tonnes could be unlocked from the Latrobe Valley.

But there are doubts about whether the technology needed to dry brown coal - which has a high water content - is advanced enough.

About 65 million tonnes of brown coal is mined in the Latrobe Valley for domestic use each year, but none is exported.

The Government yesterday said it would not speculate on how much additional coal it would allow to be mined until the outcome of the allocation tender process was completed.

But the Coalition claims interests from China, India and Japan are already lining up to buy the coal for low-emission activities including conversion to diesel oil and drying it for export.

The new arrangements are not expected to affect allocations already in place, including coal for the Hazelwood power station.

Victorian Greens MP Greg Barber said exporting Victorian coal would lead to onshore and offshore environmental damage as well as driving up the price for domestic power stations.

He also raised doubts about how interested overseas markets were in brown coal, which would be difficult to transport and provides less energy than black coal.

"Whether the pollution is in another country or Australia, it is doing great damage to the environment and it is quite likely to push up our own power prices in the process," he said.

"If they are exporting it dry there will be huge emissions in Victoria - just associated with getting it ready for export."

BROWN COAL - FAST FACTS

- Brown coal is soft brown fossil fuel used in steam-electric power generation;

- It has a low energy content and is high in moisture, which makes it difficult to transport over long distances;

- Its low levels of ash, sulphur, heavy metals and nitrogen, mean it's lower in impurities than other fossil fuels;

- It is highly volatile, making it easier to convert into gas and liquid petroleum;

- Victoria has one of the world's largest deposits of brown coal;

- Each year 65 million tonnes are mined from the Latrobe Valley for domestic use;

- More than 80 per cent of Victoria's 430 billion tonne brown coal deposit is located in the Gippsland Basin;

- None of Victoria's coal is currently exported, but groups in China, India and Japan have expressed interest.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/rich-coal-deal-promises-thousands-of-new-jobs/story-fn7x8me2-1226304538901

Black Saturday bushfires


The Black Saturday bushfires[7] were a series of bushfires that ignited or were burning across the Australian state of Victoria on and around Saturday, 7 February 2009. The fires occurred during extreme bushfire-weather conditions, and resulted in Australia's highest ever loss of life from a bushfire;[8] 173 people died[5][9] and 414 were injured as a result of the fires.
As many as 400 individual fires were recorded on 7 February. Following the events of 7 February 2009 and its aftermath, that day has become widely referred to as Black Saturday.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Saturday_bushfires

Think of the welfare handouts Greens...think of the welfare handouts for all those inner suburban Hypocrites living in million dollar mansions  and it helps ease the pain... 8-)

Just what we need..more productive land dug up and ruined forever just to make a fast buck.
Ya have to wonder just how dumb and greedy this generation really is.

Quote:

Victoria has apx 430, 000, 000 000 tonnes of brown coal. Should it be burnt? MASSIVE new stocks of Victorian coal will be exported to China, India and Japan in a multi-billion dollar plan that is expected to create thousands of new jobs and kick-start the economy. The move flies in the face of the Gillard Government's efforts to slow greenhouse gas emissions through the carbon tax and will inflame environmental groups and the Greens.

Hows that tinned sunlight and bottled wind coming along Woody? :)
The Government cannot afford the lefts Utopian socialist state endlessly supporting the unemployed, unemployable, and foreign non english speaking uneducated unskilled 3rd world country shopper and their children for life without exports.
It simply just won't happen.
Because without exports, we become 3rd world standard within a short time.
Don't like coal exports, black or brown or any other colour of the rainbow.
Don't like coal seam gas.
Don't like Uranium.
Don't like mining in general.
Dont want a nuclear dump in South Aus.
Don't want live exports.
But still want the government to provide.
Mmmmm, what to do, what to do.
As I said, hows that tinned sunlight and bottled wind coming along. ;D

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 7:51am:

Quote: Victoria has apx 430, 000, 000 000 tonnes of brown coal. Should it be burnt? MASSIVE new stocks of Victorian coal will be exported to China, India and Japan in a multi-billion dollar plan that is expected to create thousands of new jobs and kick-start the economy. The move flies in the face of the Gillard Government's efforts to slow greenhouse gas emissions through the carbon tax and will inflame environmental groups and the Greens. Hows that tinned sunlight and bottled wind coming along Woody? :) The Government cannot afford the lefts Utopian socialist state endlessly supporting the unemployed, unemployable, and foreign non english speaking uneducated unskilled 3rd world country shopper and their children for life without exports. It simply just won't happen. Because without exports, we become 3rd world standard within a short time. Don't like coal exports, black or brown or any other colour of the rainbow. Don't like coal seam gas. Don't like Uranium. Don't like mining in general. Dont want a nuclear dump in South Aus. Don't want live exports. But still want the government to provide. Mmmmm, what to do, what to do. As I said, hows that tinned sunlight and bottled wind coming along. ;D

Why stop at brown coal, lets start making nuclear bombs and auction them online.


Seems the right have lost their ethical compass.


A sustainable economy can only be build via an ethical frame of mind

These people would sell their own grandmother for a buck.


Australia should not be digging up or burning brown coal.

Bitchface might bring in a Coal Mining Super Profits Tax to help all those pampered middle class Government & Corporate Middle Class Welfare cheats get over the moral anguish of it all... :P

____ wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 8:14am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 7:51am: Quote: Victoria has apx 430, 000, 000 000 tonnes of brown coal. Should it be burnt? MASSIVE new stocks of Victorian coal will be exported to China, India and Japan in a multi-billion dollar plan that is expected to create thousands of new jobs and kick-start the economy. The move flies in the face of the Gillard Government's efforts to slow greenhouse gas emissions through the carbon tax and will inflame environmental groups and the Greens. Hows that tinned sunlight and bottled wind coming along Woody? :) The Government cannot afford the lefts Utopian socialist state endlessly supporting the unemployed, unemployable, and foreign non english speaking uneducated unskilled 3rd world country shopper and their children for life without exports. It simply just won't happen. Because without exports, we become 3rd world standard within a short time. Don't like coal exports, black or brown or any other colour of the rainbow. Don't like coal seam gas. Don't like Uranium. Don't like mining in general. Dont want a nuclear dump in South Aus. Don't want live exports. But still want the government to provide. Mmmmm, what to do, what to do. As I said, hows that tinned sunlight and bottled wind coming along. ;D Why stop at brown coal, lets start making nuclear bombs and auction them online. Seems the right have lost their ethical compass. A sustainable economy can only be build via an ethical frame of mind

Yes, I forgot nuclear power too.
The Greens don't like that either in conjunction with all those others I mentioned.
And you still havent answered the question Woody.
How do the Greens propose this nation maintain our standard of living without those exports?
Simply put, we can't.
If the Greens don't learn to compromise, they will continue to remain irrelevant at the ballot box.

Its pretty pathetic that all we can think to do to increase the wealth of this country is to destroy the land and export pollution.
"Dig it up and burn it" will be this generations catch cry.

Agriculture has a brilliant future in a sustainable economy, yet the right is willing to sacrifice food and water for a quick buck for the rich.

Also we could shift towards a transaction tax to make up some of the lost earnings from unethical exports.

Then there are the health savings

The environmental savings

and so on.


The Right has no right it taking away the future of Australia via short sighted and unethical greed.

adelcrow wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 9:25am:

Its pretty pathetic that all we can think to do to increase the wealth of this country is to destroy the land and export pollution. "Dig it up and burn it" will be this generations catch cry.

It's not pathetic at all.
It's an uncomfortable reality which the left has continually denied accepting.
As a nation, we are dependant on our exports.
It is that simple.
This is the reality, and has been so not only just for this generation, but the last four or more as well.
And until we can find something else to replace the national wealth created by 'digging something out of the ground' and exporting it, we will continue to mine and export.
And until we can find something that can match coal fired power stations electricity output to meet our growing needs, we are stuck with that as well.

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 9:54am:

adelcrow wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 9:25am: Its pretty pathetic that all we can think to do to increase the wealth of this country is to destroy the land and export pollution. "Dig it up and burn it" will be this generations catch cry. It's not pathetic at all. It's an uncomfortable reality which the left has continually denied accepting. As a nation, we are dependant on our exports. It is that simple. This is the reality, and has been so not only just for this generation, but the last four or more as well. And until we can find something else to replace the national wealth created by 'digging something out of the ground' and exporting it, we will continue to mine and export. And until we can find something that can match coal fired power stations electricity output to meet our growing needs, we are stuck with that as well.

I don't disagree with your chook. That we depend on our mining exports is the reality. But it wasn't always that way and it needn't always be that way. We as a nation just have to have the will to change it. But that won't happen when our overriding mentality is solely to dig up everything of any value and flog it off.

It's past time we began looking for alternatives.

Gist wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 10:00am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 9:54am: adelcrow wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 9:25am: Its pretty pathetic that all we can think to do to increase the wealth of this country is to destroy the land and export pollution. "Dig it up and burn it" will be this generations catch cry. It's not pathetic at all. It's an uncomfortable reality which the left has continually denied accepting. As a nation, we are dependant on our exports. It is that simple. This is the reality, and has been so not only just for this generation, but the last four or more as well. And until we can find something else to replace the national wealth created by 'digging something out of the ground' and exporting it, we will continue to mine and export. And until we can find something that can match coal fired power stations electricity output to meet our growing needs, we are stuck with that as well. I don't disagree with your chook. That we depend on our mining exports is the reality. But it wasn't always that way and it needn't always be that way. We as a nation just have to have the will to change it. But that won't happen when our overriding mentality is solely to dig up everything of any value and flog it off. It's past time we began looking for alternatives.

Research and development in renewable energy, high end manufacturing and services...that's where future jobs and wealth is going to come from. The Germans manage to manufacture and export solar technology so people are will to pay the price for quality.
Crikey..digging up coal and burning it for energy is something we should have left behind a long time ago.

adelcrow wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 10:10am:

Research and development in renewable energy, high end manufacturing and services...that's where future jobs and wealth is going to come from. The Germans manage to manufacture and export solar technology so people are will to pay the price for quality. Crikey..digging up coal and burning it for energy is something we should have left behind a long time ago.

Coal fired power is great fun for steam punk gatherings. But as a way to power a modern nation? Don't think so.

____ wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 9:52am:

Agriculture has a brilliant future in a sustainable economy, yet the right is willing to sacrifice food and water for a quick buck for the rich. Also we could shift towards a transaction tax to make up some of the lost earnings from unethical exports. Then there are the health savings The environmental savings and so on. The Right has no right it taking away the future of Australia via short sighted and unethical greed.

And we export our agriculture now to Asia Woody, and have done so since the 70's.
We compete with  the Kiwi's, and with Asian countries, and the market has and will always be tough.
It still only represents a small portion of our GDP though, and Agriculture will never be in a position to replace Mining.
I don't know whether you have noticed it Woody, but farmers are a dying breed in this country and have been dying out for decades now.
Ask 'Mad' Bob Katter, he goes to all the farmers funerals in his electorate of Kennedy where the boys regularly top themselves and has done so for years, along with railing against bad government policy which has done much to destroy farming as a viable industry.
Yours is a left wingers pipe dream I'm afraid.

Gist wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 10:00am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 9:54am: adelcrow wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 9:25am: Its pretty pathetic that all we can think to do to increase the wealth of this country is to destroy the land and export pollution. "Dig it up and burn it" will be this generations catch cry. It's not pathetic at all. It's an uncomfortable reality which the left has continually denied accepting. As a nation, we are dependant on our exports. It is that simple. This is the reality, and has been so not only just for this generation, but the last four or more as well. And until we can find something else to replace the national wealth created by 'digging something out of the ground' and exporting it, we will continue to mine and export. And until we can find something that can match coal fired power stations electricity output to meet our growing needs, we are stuck with that as well. I don't disagree with your chook. That we depend on our mining exports is the reality. But it wasn't always that way and it needn't always be that way. We as a nation just have to have the will to change it. But that won't happen when our overriding mentality is solely to dig up everything of any value and flog it off. It's past time we began looking for alternatives.

We had no electricity back then and burnt candles for lighting and had gas for street lighting.
22 million people in a Westernised society in 2012 will not be going back to those days.
You will find those 'alternatives' are already being looked for, and rightly so.
But until these 'alternatives' are in place and available for export to challenge the wealth created currently, we are stuck with what we have now.

adelcrow wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 10:10am:

Gist wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 10:00am: chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 9:54am: adelcrow wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 9:25am: Its pretty pathetic that all we can think to do to increase the wealth of this country is to destroy the land and export pollution. "Dig it up and burn it" will be this generations catch cry. It's not pathetic at all. It's an uncomfortable reality which the left has continually denied accepting. As a nation, we are dependant on our exports. It is that simple. This is the reality, and has been so not only just for this generation, but the last four or more as well. And until we can find something else to replace the national wealth created by 'digging something out of the ground' and exporting it, we will continue to mine and export. And until we can find something that can match coal fired power stations electricity output to meet our growing needs, we are stuck with that as well. I don't disagree with your chook. That we depend on our mining exports is the reality. But it wasn't always that way and it needn't always be that way. We as a nation just have to have the will to change it. But that won't happen when our overriding mentality is solely to dig up everything of any value and flog it off. It's past time we began looking for alternatives. Research and development in renewable energy, high end manufacturing and services...that's where future jobs and wealth is going to come from. The Germans manage to manufacture and export solar technology so people are will to pay the price for quality. Crikey..digging up coal and burning it for energy is something we should have left behind a long time ago.

I agree, the only question is how long will we have to wait for these industries to come on line.

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 10:34am:

Gist wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 10:00am: chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 9:54am: adelcrow wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 9:25am: Its pretty pathetic that all we can think to do to increase the wealth of this country is to destroy the land and export pollution. "Dig it up and burn it" will be this generations catch cry. It's not pathetic at all. It's an uncomfortable reality which the left has continually denied accepting. As a nation, we are dependant on our exports. It is that simple. This is the reality, and has been so not only just for this generation, but the last four or more as well. And until we can find something else to replace the national wealth created by 'digging something out of the ground' and exporting it, we will continue to mine and export. And until we can find something that can match coal fired power stations electricity output to meet our growing needs, we are stuck with that as well. I don't disagree with your chook. That we depend on our mining exports is the reality. But it wasn't always that way and it needn't always be that way. We as a nation just have to have the will to change it. But that won't happen when our overriding mentality is solely to dig up everything of any value and flog it off. It's past time we began looking for alternatives. We had no electricity back then and burnt candles for lighting and had gas for street lighting. 22 million people in a Westernised society in 2012 will not be going back to those days. You will find those 'alternatives' are already being looked for, and rightly so. But until these 'alternatives' are in place and available for export to challenge the wealth created currently, we are stuck with what we have now.

No, you've misunderstood what I meant. The whole phenomenon of this country being supported by mining is relatively recent. There was a time not so long ago when our principle export was wool. The wool market collapsed. Then for a while our boom industry seemed to be tourism (though exactly how much that brought in I've no idea). Now that's collapsed and we've fallen on mining.

So it's not all about energy. We don't have to wait for someone genius to develop some whizbang technology that'll provide clean energy forever just so we can move away from exporting coal as our source of income. We just need to find something else to do.

Gist wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 10:28am:

adelcrow wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 10:10am: Research and development in renewable energy, high end manufacturing and services...that's where future jobs and wealth is going to come from. The Germans manage to manufacture and export solar technology so people are will to pay the price for quality. Crikey..digging up coal and burning it for energy is something we should have left behind a long time ago. Coal fired power is great fun for steam punk gatherings. But as a way to power a modern nation? Don't think so.

and as long as you dont mind tripling your power bills we could go fully renewable and as long as you dont mind that sometimes there is no power becuae it is night and the wind isn blowing or whatever. and if you dont mind that large manufacturing moves overseas because it takes 10 years to get enough power capacity for a major upgrade etc.

pass

Gist wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 10:28am:

adelcrow wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 10:10am: Research and development in renewable energy, high end manufacturing and services...that's where future jobs and wealth is going to come from. The Germans manage to manufacture and export solar technology so people are will to pay the price for quality. Crikey..digging up coal and burning it for energy is something we should have left behind a long time ago. Coal fired power is great fun for steam punk gatherings. But as a way to power a modern nation? Don't think so.

Would you rather use wind turbines? Gonna need a lot of them if you want them to replace those horrible, horrible coal-powered power stations. Last estimate I read somewhere was that to power NSW alone would require enough wind turbines to fill the state of California. That is hardly workable. Back to the drawing board, eh?

____ wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 6:31am:

Black Saturday bushfires The Black Saturday bushfires[7] were a series of bushfires that ignited or were burning across the Australian state of Victoria on and around Saturday, 7 February 2009. The fires occurred during extreme bushfire-weather conditions, and resulted in Australia's highest ever loss of life from a bushfire;[8] 173 people died[5][9] and 414 were injured as a result of the fires. As many as 400 individual fires were recorded on 7 February. Following the events of 7 February 2009 and its aftermath, that day has become widely referred to as Black Saturday. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Saturday_bushfires

WTF has that got to do with anything? Are you spamming your own thread?

adelcrow wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 10:10am:

Research and development in renewable energy, high end manufacturing and services...that's where future jobs and wealth is going to come from. The Germans manage to manufacture and export solar technology so people are will to pay the price for quality. Crikey..digging up coal and burning it for energy is something we should have left behind a long time ago.

LOL

What high end manufacturing jobs?

Solar technology is being sent to the wall via mass production from China and India.

You need a new record, this one is being played to death. ;)

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 11:28am:

Gist wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 10:28am: adelcrow wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 10:10am: Research and development in renewable energy, high end manufacturing and services...that's where future jobs and wealth is going to come from. The Germans manage to manufacture and export solar technology so people are will to pay the price for quality. Crikey..digging up coal and burning it for energy is something we should have left behind a long time ago. Coal fired power is great fun for steam punk gatherings. But as a way to power a modern nation? Don't think so. Would you rather use wind turbines? Gonna need a lot of them if you want them to replace those horrible, horrible coal-powered power stations. Last estimate I read somewhere was that to power NSW alone would require enough wind turbines to fill the state of California. That is hardly workable. Back to the drawing board, eh?

Only if you obsess over windfarms. But why would you? That's a source of energy but it isn't the only source of energy. Same as coal is a source of energy. Both have their problems. But there are lots of other sources of energy, many of which we haven't even tapped into yet. So pick another one! Hell, pick several! Develop them. Sell them to the rest of the world. Have some friggen vision for a change instead of aspiring to be the Dale Kerrigen of the world. All you lot want to do is sing out "Dad, I dug another hole!"

Gist wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 11:59am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 11:28am: Gist wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 10:28am: adelcrow wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 10:10am: Research and development in renewable energy, high end manufacturing and services...that's where future jobs and wealth is going to come from. The Germans manage to manufacture and export solar technology so people are will to pay the price for quality. Crikey..digging up coal and burning it for energy is something we should have left behind a long time ago. Coal fired power is great fun for steam punk gatherings. But as a way to power a modern nation? Don't think so. Would you rather use wind turbines? Gonna need a lot of them if you want them to replace those horrible, horrible coal-powered power stations. Last estimate I read somewhere was that to power NSW alone would require enough wind turbines to fill the state of California. That is hardly workable. Back to the drawing board, eh? Only if you obsess over windfarms. But why would you? That's a source of energy but it isn't the only source of energy. Same as coal is a source of energy. Both have their problems. But there are lots of other sources of energy, many of which we haven't even tapped into yet. So pick another one! Hell, pick several! Develop them. Sell them to the rest of the world. Have some friggen vision for a change instead of aspiring to be the Dale Kerrigen of the world. All you lot want to do is sing out "Dad, I dug another hole!"

Australia is surrounded by the best form of permanent base load energy we could hope for...its called the ocean.

FriYAY wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 11:31am:

____ wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 6:31am: Black Saturday bushfires The Black Saturday bushfires[7] were a series of bushfires that ignited or were burning across the Australian state of Victoria on and around Saturday, 7 February 2009. The fires occurred during extreme bushfire-weather conditions, and resulted in Australia's highest ever loss of life from a bushfire;[8] 173 people died[5][9] and 414 were injured as a result of the fires. As many as 400 individual fires were recorded on 7 February. Following the events of 7 February 2009 and its aftermath, that day has become widely referred to as Black Saturday. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Saturday_bushfires WTF has that got to do with anything? Are you spamming your own thread?

Burning even greater amounts of coal will fire up more wildfires in Australia through AGW.

More lives lost.

____ wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 1:04pm:

FriYAY wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 11:31am: ____ wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 6:31am: Black Saturday bushfires The Black Saturday bushfires[7] were a series of bushfires that ignited or were burning across the Australian state of Victoria on and around Saturday, 7 February 2009. The fires occurred during extreme bushfire-weather conditions, and resulted in Australia's highest ever loss of life from a bushfire;[8] 173 people died[5][9] and 414 were injured as a result of the fires. As many as 400 individual fires were recorded on 7 February. Following the events of 7 February 2009 and its aftermath, that day has become widely referred to as Black Saturday. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Saturday_bushfires WTF has that got to do with anything? Are you spamming your own thread? Burning even greater amounts of coal will fire up more wildfires in Australia through AGW. More lives lost.

]
BEST you f/off back to NZ were you will be out of harms way   ;D ;D ;D

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 10:29am:

____ wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 9:52am: Agriculture has a brilliant future in a sustainable economy, yet the right is willing to sacrifice food and water for a quick buck for the rich. Also we could shift towards a transaction tax to make up some of the lost earnings from unethical exports. Then there are the health savings The environmental savings and so on. The Right has no right it taking away the future of Australia via short sighted and unethical greed. And we export our agriculture now to Asia Woody, and have done so since the 70's. We compete with  the Kiwi's, and with Asian countries, and the market has and will always be tough. It still only represents a small portion of our GDP though, and Agriculture will never be in a position to replace Mining. I don't know whether you have noticed it Woody, but farmers are a dying breed in this country and have been dying out for decades now. Ask 'Mad' Bob Katter, he goes to all the farmers funerals in his electorate of Kennedy where the boys regularly top themselves and has done so for years, along with railing against bad government policy which has done much to destroy farming as a viable industry. Yours is a left wingers pipe dream I'm afraid.

Due to coal's carbon pollution, along with other human caused increases in carbon, the ocean food chain is collapsing. 1 billion plus people currently rely on fish as their main source of protein.

Due to human population increased, projection population growth shows we are heading to 10 billion humans on the planet in a few decades.

Demand and supply shows food will me in great demand and countries that can grow excessive food will be financial winners.

For Australia to be in a position to cash in on this demand, we must protect land, water and environment against destruction now.

____ wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 1:04pm:

FriYAY wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 11:31am: ____ wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 6:31am: Black Saturday bushfires The Black Saturday bushfires[7] were a series of bushfires that ignited or were burning across the Australian state of Victoria on and around Saturday, 7 February 2009. The fires occurred during extreme bushfire-weather conditions, and resulted in Australia's highest ever loss of life from a bushfire;[8] 173 people died[5][9] and 414 were injured as a result of the fires. As many as 400 individual fires were recorded on 7 February. Following the events of 7 February 2009 and its aftermath, that day has become widely referred to as Black Saturday. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Saturday_bushfires WTF has that got to do with anything? Are you spamming your own thread? Burning even greater amounts of coal will fire up more wildfires in Australia through AGW. More lives lost.

So just more scaremongering, ok.

adelcrow wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 12:11pm:

Gist wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 11:59am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 11:28am: Gist wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 10:28am: adelcrow wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 10:10am: Research and development in renewable energy, high end manufacturing and services...that's where future jobs and wealth is going to come from. The Germans manage to manufacture and export solar technology so people are will to pay the price for quality. Crikey..digging up coal and burning it for energy is something we should have left behind a long time ago. Coal fired power is great fun for steam punk gatherings. But as a way to power a modern nation? Don't think so. Would you rather use wind turbines? Gonna need a lot of them if you want them to replace those horrible, horrible coal-powered power stations. Last estimate I read somewhere was that to power NSW alone would require enough wind turbines to fill the state of California. That is hardly workable. Back to the drawing board, eh? Only if you obsess over windfarms. But why would you? That's a source of energy but it isn't the only source of energy. Same as coal is a source of energy. Both have their problems. But there are lots of other sources of energy, many of which we haven't even tapped into yet. So pick another one! Hell, pick several! Develop them. Sell them to the rest of the world. Have some friggen vision for a change instead of aspiring to be the Dale Kerrigen of the world. All you lot want to do is sing out "Dad, I dug another hole!" Australia is surrounded by the best form of permanent base load energy we could hope for...its called the ocean.

Interestingly tidal power seems not too favorable.

Europe has only 1 tidal generator and it was built in 1966!

____ wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 1:13pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 10:29am: ____ wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 9:52am: Agriculture has a brilliant future in a sustainable economy, yet the right is willing to sacrifice food and water for a quick buck for the rich. Also we could shift towards a transaction tax to make up some of the lost earnings from unethical exports. Then there are the health savings The environmental savings and so on. The Right has no right it taking away the future of Australia via short sighted and unethical greed. And we export our agriculture now to Asia Woody, and have done so since the 70's. We compete with  the Kiwi's, and with Asian countries, and the market has and will always be tough. It still only represents a small portion of our GDP though, and Agriculture will never be in a position to replace Mining. I don't know whether you have noticed it Woody, but farmers are a dying breed in this country and have been dying out for decades now. Ask 'Mad' Bob Katter, he goes to all the farmers funerals in his electorate of Kennedy where the boys regularly top themselves and has done so for years, along with railing against bad government policy which has done much to destroy farming as a viable industry. Yours is a left wingers pipe dream I'm afraid. Due to coal's carbon pollution, along with other human caused increases in carbon, the ocean food chain is collapsing. 1 billion plus people currently rely on fish as their main source of protein. Due to human population increased, projection population growth shows we are heading to 10 billion humans on the planet in a few decades. Demand and supply shows food will me in great demand and countries that can grow excessive food will be financial winners. For Australia to be in a position to cash in on this demand, we must protect land, water and environment against destruction now.

Be that as it may Woody and I agree with what you are stating, but the fact remains farmers in 2012 are a dying breed who remain unsupported at a time they need help.
When the weather isn't working against them, they are being legally ripped off by the Coles/Woolies monopoly, in conjunction with dreadfully poor state and federal governments policies working against them.

There are tidal power plants in China, the USA, South Korea, Russia, Ireland and France and more planned for the USA, India, Scotland and  South Korea.
They are just the few I can find on the net and Im sure theres many more around and being planned.
We should certainly be looking into it considering most of our population live along the coast.

adelcrow wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 1:58pm:

There are tidal power plants in China, the USA, South Korea, Russia, Ireland and France and more planned for the USA, India, Scotland and  South Korea. They are just the few I can find on the net and Im sure theres many more around and being planned. We should certainly be looking into it considering most of our population live along the coast.

What do you think the long term effect on disrupting tidal flows might be?

Tital power is about the most expensive renewable form of energy.

This is why it hasnt been taken up much.


As for its impact long term.....negligable. We already have islands and continents disrupting tidal flow, and it seems to be ok. The moon hasnt spiralled into us yet.

Doctor Jolly wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 2:06pm:

Tital power is about the most expensive renewable form of energy. This is why it hasnt been taken up much. As for its impact long term.....negligable. We already have islands and continents disrupting tidal flow, and it seems to be ok. The moon hasnt spiralled into us yet.

How stupid. Why do so many resort to stupid comment like these?

We are talking about new disruption to tidal flows around coastal areas.

Why not just say you don't have the a clue as to what the long term effects might be, rather than sounding off like an idiot? :-/

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 1:53pm:

Be that as it may Woody and I agree with what you are stating, but the fact remains farmers in 2012 are a dying breed who remain unsupported at a time they need help. When the weather isn't working against them, they are being legally ripped off by the Coles/Woolies monopoly, in conjunction with dreadfully poor state and federal governments policies working against them.

Get them growing fuel then. Australia developed a variety of rape seed with edible oil which kicked off the whole canola agriculture industry. Why not use those kinds of skills to develop better plants that can produce alternative fuels for cars? Diesel engines can run on vegetable oil - hell they were originally developed for vegetable oil.

Most of our population is in a few centres near the coast. If wind power is no good when the wind isn't blowing then build more than we need. Use the excess power to pump water inshore to ponds. During periods of no wind, you use the water in the pond to drive hydro-electric systems that continue to generate power.

All it takes will and ingenuity. I think Australia does have plenty of the latter but sadly there seems to be extremely little of the former. Easier just to dig another hole.

Gist wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 2:15pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 1:53pm: Be that as it may Woody and I agree with what you are stating, but the fact remains farmers in 2012 are a dying breed who remain unsupported at a time they need help. When the weather isn't working against them, they are being legally ripped off by the Coles/Woolies monopoly, in conjunction with dreadfully poor state and federal governments policies working against them. Get them growing fuel then. Australia developed a variety of rape seed with edible oil which kicked off the whole canola agriculture industry. Why not use those kinds of skills to develop better plants that can produce alternative fuels for cars? Diesel engines can run on vegetable oil - hell they were originally developed for vegetable oil. Most of our population is in a few centres near the coast. If wind power is no good when the wind isn't blowing then build more than we need. Use the excess power to pump water inshore to ponds. During periods of no wind, you use the water in the pond to drive hydro-electric systems that continue to generate power. All it takes will and ingenuity. I think Australia does have plenty of the latter but sadly there seems to be extremely little of the former. Easier just to dig another hole.

One of Bob 'Mad' Katter's Australian party policies is to get our ethanol industry off the ground and save the cane industry here in the north.
But as for digging holes, that's what mining companies do and that's all they do.
It's going to take someone else to fund renewables.

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 2:22pm:

One of Bob 'Mad' Katter's Australian party policies is to get our ethanol industry off the ground and save the cane industry here in the north. But as for digging holes, that's what mining companies do and that's all they do. It's going to take someone else to fund renewables.

Maybe he's not completely mad then.  ;)

No, not completely. :)
Just mad enough to win.

FriYAY wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 2:13pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 2:06pm: Tital power is about the most expensive renewable form of energy. This is why it hasnt been taken up much. As for its impact long term.....negligable. We already have islands and continents disrupting tidal flow, and it seems to be ok. The moon hasnt spiralled into us yet. How stupid. Why do so many resort to stupid comment like these? We are talking about new disruption to tidal flows around coastal areas. Why not just say you don't have the a clue as to what the long term effects might be, rather than sounding off like an idiot? :-/

You were doing a sterling job sounding like an idiot long before I put your stupid tidal-killer view forward.

FriYAY wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 1:47pm:

adelcrow wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 12:11pm: Gist wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 11:59am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 11:28am: Gist wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 10:28am: adelcrow wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 10:10am: Research and development in renewable energy, high end manufacturing and services...that's where future jobs and wealth is going to come from. The Germans manage to manufacture and export solar technology so people are will to pay the price for quality. Crikey..digging up coal and burning it for energy is something we should have left behind a long time ago. Coal fired power is great fun for steam punk gatherings. But as a way to power a modern nation? Don't think so. Would you rather use wind turbines? Gonna need a lot of them if you want them to replace those horrible, horrible coal-powered power stations. Last estimate I read somewhere was that to power NSW alone would require enough wind turbines to fill the state of California. That is hardly workable. Back to the drawing board, eh? Only if you obsess over windfarms. But why would you? That's a source of energy but it isn't the only source of energy. Same as coal is a source of energy. Both have their problems. But there are lots of other sources of energy, many of which we haven't even tapped into yet. So pick another one! Hell, pick several! Develop them. Sell them to the rest of the world. Have some friggen vision for a change instead of aspiring to be the Dale Kerrigen of the world. All you lot want to do is sing out "Dad, I dug another hole!" Australia is surrounded by the best form of permanent base load energy we could hope for...its called the ocean. Interestingly tidal power seems not too favorable. Europe has only 1 tidal generator and it was built in 1966!

tidal energy is very expensive. there IS a rason why tidal hasnt taken off. could it possibly be costs or is it just those oil companies again?

FriYAY wrote on Mar 20^th, 2012 at 1:42pm:

____ wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 1:04pm: FriYAY wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 11:31am: ____ wrote on Mar 20th, 2012 at 6:31am: Black Saturday bushfires The Black Saturday bushfires[7] were a series of bushfires that ignited or were burning across the Australian state of Victoria on and around Saturday, 7 February 2009. The fires occurred during extreme bushfire-weather conditions, and resulted in Australia's highest ever loss of life from a bushfire;[8] 173 people died[5][9] and 414 were injured as a result of the fires. As many as 400 individual fires were recorded on 7 February. Following the events of 7 February 2009 and its aftermath, that day has become widely referred to as Black Saturday. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Saturday_bushfires WTF has that got to do with anything? Are you spamming your own thread? Burning even greater amounts of coal will fire up more wildfires in Australia through AGW. More lives lost. So just more scaremongering, ok.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1878220,00.html