Fairly simple.
If you believe in fairy tales it is fairly obvious you lack credibility.

I challenge anyone to find a difference between fairy tales and religion

I will bump this thread every day until a theist responds and admits there is no difference between religion and fairy tales

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 24^th, 2012 at 4:08pm:

I will bump this thread every day until a theist responds and admits there is no difference between religion and fairy tales

it is probably the only 'bump' you will give anybody for some time.

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 24^th, 2012 at 4:09pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 24th, 2012 at 4:08pm: I will bump this thread every day until a theist responds and admits there is no difference between religion and fairy tales it is probably the only 'bump' you will give anybody for some time.

So is this an admission that I am right?

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 24^th, 2012 at 4:11pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 24th, 2012 at 4:09pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 24th, 2012 at 4:08pm: I will bump this thread every day until a theist responds and admits there is no difference between religion and fairy tales it is probably the only 'bump' you will give anybody for some time. So is this an admission that I am right?

it is an admission of nothing. it is howver a rather potent proof of what I am saying about you being a teenager. (ask your parents if you dont understand).

'going over your head' is pretty easy. you are a rather low target.

So is there a difference between your religious beliefs and fairy tales?

Why is it so hard for you to admit that your beliefs are no different from fairy tales?
If you really believe them why does it matter?

bump

don't make fun of madweekend's paranormal friend :D LOL

Sir lastnail wrote on Mar 24^th, 2012 at 4:39pm:

don't make fun of madweekend's paranormal friend :D LOL

I am simply asking him a question

(shuffles up to air gun at side-show alley).
(click click)
how many people died for fairy tales?
(plink)

It is bad to say this about people's religion.

If you do not believe in this, that is fine but to attack other peoples who do is weak and do not show maturity.

I am secular Jewish but have respect for Orthodoxes and also have respect for the Christian peoples of this world too,

It is more mature to do this i think,,

Go read some Joseph Campbell and you will find that Fairy Tales have a lot of credibility ...you could even use them as early forms of Psychology, etc.

Religion is a Fairy Tale in itself - especially when most of Religion's substance is based just on Astronomical and weather, harvesting and other mundane things. So just add people and Gods and you spruce up the story a bit for marketing.

Is justice a fairytale?

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 24^th, 2012 at 5:49pm:

It is bad to say this about people's religion. If you do not believe in this, that is fine but to attack other peoples who do is weak and do not show maturity. I am secular Jewish but have respect for Orthodoxes and also have respect for the Christian peoples of this world too, It is more mature to do this i think,,

What about the Muslims? Or are you a hypocrite?

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 24^th, 2012 at 6:13pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 24th, 2012 at 5:49pm: It is bad to say this about people's religion. If you do not believe in this, that is fine but to attack other peoples who do is weak and do not show maturity. I am secular Jewish but have respect for Orthodoxes and also have respect for the Christian peoples of this world too, It is more mature to do this i think,, What about the Muslims? Or are you a hypocrite?

What do you mean?
I did not say i has disrespect for Muslims -- i say Christian because you peoples are from Christian country.

I did not say Buddhist too,

i has respect for all,

The funny thing about Judaism, Christianity and Mohommedism is that they reflect Asia, Europe and Africa ...but not the Middle-East itself. Thankfully Namerica/Samerica & Australia will fix that problem ;)

You could also say that Judaism (old), Christianity (Adult) and Mohommedism (youth) are three rites of passage to growth - the inability of people to transcend and change leads to violence, stupidity and whatever else you see in the Middle-East - such is the fear of 'growing'.

Sir lastnail wrote on Mar 24^th, 2012 at 4:39pm:

don't make fun of madweekend's paranormal friend :D LOL

Nail,
it's not politically correct to make fun of
someone's religious beliefs no matter how silly they might be.

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 24^th, 2012 at 4:08pm:

I will bump this thread every day until a theist responds and admits there is no difference between religion and fairy tales

I take it that you mean alleged religions like Islam. As a New Age Muslim I find your attitude very disturbing. Our prophet, Diminy the Kiddie fondler, warned that unbelievers like you would try and shake adherence to our faith. It won't work on me. I am a NAM and I will stay a NAM until I join the Divine One, Tugger, in the hereafter.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 24^th, 2012 at 5:49pm:

It is bad to say this about people's religion. If you do not believe in this, that is fine but to attack other peoples who do is weak and do not show maturity. I am secular Jewish but have respect for Orthodoxes and also have respect for the Christian peoples of this world too, It is more mature to do this i think,,

Sometimes you need to think for people who lack the ability

freediver wrote on Mar 24^th, 2012 at 6:12pm:

Is justice a fairytale?

Well if you live on this planet it may appear so

salad in wrote on Mar 24^th, 2012 at 6:50pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 24th, 2012 at 4:08pm: I will bump this thread every day until a theist responds and admits there is no difference between religion and fairy tales I take it that you mean alleged religions like Islam. As a New Age Muslim I find your attitude very disturbing. Our prophet, Diminy the Kiddie fondler, warned that unbelievers like you would try and shake adherence to our faith. It won't work on me. I am a NAM and I will stay a NAM until I join the Divine One, Tugger, in the hereafter.

alleged religions?
You do realise I can say my religion is a stapler and it has just as much credibilty as any other religion.

Bobby. wrote on Mar 24^th, 2012 at 6:38pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Mar 24th, 2012 at 4:39pm: don't make fun of madweekend's paranormal friend :D LOL Nail, it's not politically correct to make fun of someone's religious beliefs no matter how silly they might be.

When it effects other people like christianity does it is politically correct

It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Mar 24^th, 2012 at 6:05pm:

Go read some Joseph Campbell and you will find that Fairy Tales have a lot of credibility ...you could even use them as early forms of Psychology, etc. Religion is a Fairy Tale in itself - especially when most of Religion's substance is based just on Astronomical and weather, harvesting and other mundane things. So just add people and Gods and you spruce up the story a bit for marketing.

The point is that fairy tales are not real

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 24^th, 2012 at 7:02pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 24th, 2012 at 6:38pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Mar 24th, 2012 at 4:39pm: don't make fun of madweekend's paranormal friend :D LOL Nail, it's not politically correct to make fun of someone's religious beliefs no matter how silly they might be. When it effects other people like christianity does it is politically correct

Like when the Mormons knock on the door or
a guy in the street bashing a Bible tells you you're a sinner?

Bobby. wrote on Mar 24^th, 2012 at 7:46pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 24th, 2012 at 7:02pm: Bobby. wrote on Mar 24th, 2012 at 6:38pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Mar 24th, 2012 at 4:39pm: don't make fun of madweekend's paranormal friend :D LOL Nail, it's not politically correct to make fun of someone's religious beliefs no matter how silly they might be. When it effects other people like christianity does it is politically correct Like when the Mormons knock on the door or a guy in the street bashing a Bible tells you you're a sinner?

The effects of religion go much deeper than this.

Care to add to my list?

Bobby. wrote on Mar 24^th, 2012 at 8:02pm:

Care to add to my list?

Religion is burnt into our subconsious,
It doesnt matter if your brought up in an atheist family or whatever.. By the time you are 5 you would probably have heard about religion 10000000000000000000000000 times.
There are so many problems as a result of religion it would be impossible to list them all.

I agree people are entitled to their opinion and should not be challenged on that
But there is no doubt that religion is more than an opinion.
When opinion affects others it becomes your right to speak out about it

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 24^th, 2012 at 4:42pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Mar 24th, 2012 at 4:39pm: don't make fun of madweekend's paranormal friend :D LOL I am simply asking him a question

madweekend never answers questions. his usual tactic is to get you into a circular argument that you don't want to engage in because it is totally irrelevant.

madweekend employs fallacies in nearly everyone of his replies. I think the moderators don't ban him because they feel sorry for him or they find him amusing :D LOL

madweekend is a time waster and poor excuse for a human being !

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 24^th, 2012 at 8:07pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 24th, 2012 at 8:02pm: Care to add to my list? Religion is burnt into our subconsious, It doesnt matter if your brought up in an atheist family or whatever.. By the time you are 5 you would probably have heard about religion 10000000000000000000000000 times. There are so many problems as a result of religion it would be impossible to list them all. I agree people are entitled to their opinion and should not be challenged on that But there is no doubt that religion is more than an opinion. When opinion affects others it becomes your right to speak out about it

religion is the oldest and most successful business known to man probably because they don't pay tax on their takings and never have to guarantee their tickets to heaven ;)

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 24^th, 2012 at 8:07pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 24th, 2012 at 8:02pm: Care to add to my list? Religion is burnt into our subconsious, It doesnt matter if your brought up in an atheist family or whatever.. By the time you are 5 you would probably have heard about religion 10000000000000000000000000 times. There are so many problems as a result of religion it would be impossible to list them all. I agree people are entitled to their opinion and should not be challenged on that But there is no doubt that religion is more than an opinion. When opinion affects others it becomes your right to speak out about it

Then again - a lot of religious people don't bother anyone.
A person can believe in faires at the bottom of their garden
& good luck to them as long as it doesn't hurt me or cause a war.

Also - many of them - like Longweekend are Inquisition deniers.

The Inquisition went on for 600 years & at it's height they burnt
400 witches in one hour in the town of Toulouse in France.
All these atrocities are documented by the Catholic Church themselves.

Bobby. wrote on Mar 24^th, 2012 at 11:33pm:

Also - many of them - like Longweekend are Inquisition deniers. The Inquisition went on for 600 years & at it's height they burnt 400 witches in one hour in the town of Toulouse in France. All these atrocities are documented by the Catholic Church themselves.

Is religion ever used [by men, with political motives] as a reason, or as an excuse, to do wicked things ?

Clearly, yes.




Are those men [who do wicked things] not responsible for their choices, and actions ?

Q.
While a mugger, or any other criminal, is committing a crime, do they think [do they imagine] that they will be brought to account for their actions [i.e. brought to account for their crime] ?

Q.
If the answer was yes, then why would they 'do their crime' ?





John 16:1
These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.
2  They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
3  And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.






Sometimes men do wicked things [actions].

Q.
Why ?

A.
Because some >> men << want [choose] to do wicked things.

Q.
Why so ?

A.
Because mostly, men who choose to do wicked things,
DON'T IMAGINE THAT THEY WILL BE BROUGHT TO ACCOUNT FOR THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR CHOICES, AND ACTIONS.



That is a very irrational point of view, imo.

And reveals a very UNSCIENTIFIC mindset.

Because doesn't high school science class teach every student that;

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Newton's Third Law of Motion

???


So, if a common criminal has half a brain cell, shouldn't the criminal mind realize,  .....that our actions always have consequences ?

That, is just a 'scientific' law of the universe.

Right ?




Galatians 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8  For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9  And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

Yadda wrote on Mar 25^th, 2012 at 1:10am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 24th, 2012 at 11:33pm: Also - many of them - like Longweekend are Inquisition deniers. The Inquisition went on for 600 years & at it's height they burnt 400 witches in one hour in the town of Toulouse in France. All these atrocities are documented by the Catholic Church themselves. Is religion ever used [by men, with political motives] as a reason, or as an excuse, to do wicked things ? Clearly, yes. Are those men [who do wicked things] not responsible for their choices, and actions ?

but isn't that part of gods plan ?

god plans all births and deaths which means that god must plan all murders, abortions, rapes, wars, terrorist attacks etc !!

It's ALL part of gods plan !!

bump

Bobby. wrote on Mar 24^th, 2012 at 11:27pm:

By the time you are 5 you would probably have heard about religion 10000000000000000000000000 times.

LOL, and you recon religion has credibility problems!!

:D

FriYAY wrote on Mar 25^th, 2012 at 3:25pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 24th, 2012 at 11:27pm: By the time you are 5 you would probably have heard about religion 10000000000000000000000000 times. LOL, and you recon religion has credibility problems!! :D

All this proves is that our society is delusional

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 25^th, 2012 at 3:28pm:

FriYAY wrote on Mar 25th, 2012 at 3:25pm: Bobby. wrote on Mar 24th, 2012 at 11:27pm: By the time you are 5 you would probably have heard about religion 10000000000000000000000000 times. LOL, and you recon religion has credibility problems!! :D All this proves is that our society is delusional

Cure me with a link to your claim ;)

FriYAY wrote on Mar 25^th, 2012 at 3:32pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 25th, 2012 at 3:28pm: FriYAY wrote on Mar 25th, 2012 at 3:25pm: Bobby. wrote on Mar 24th, 2012 at 11:27pm: By the time you are 5 you would probably have heard about religion 10000000000000000000000000 times. LOL, and you recon religion has credibility problems!! :D All this proves is that our society is delusional Cure me with a link to your claim ;)

I think a link to the proof of god would be more useful

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 25^th, 2012 at 3:35pm:

FriYAY wrote on Mar 25th, 2012 at 3:32pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 25th, 2012 at 3:28pm: FriYAY wrote on Mar 25th, 2012 at 3:25pm: Bobby. wrote on Mar 24th, 2012 at 11:27pm: By the time you are 5 you would probably have heard about religion 10000000000000000000000000 times. LOL, and you recon religion has credibility problems!! :D All this proves is that our society is delusional Cure me with a link to your claim ;) I think a link to the proof of god would be more useful

LOL, how lame, you are attacking the credibility of something and can't back the credibility of your claims.

Do'h.

FriYAY wrote on Mar 25^th, 2012 at 3:37pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 25th, 2012 at 3:35pm: FriYAY wrote on Mar 25th, 2012 at 3:32pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 25th, 2012 at 3:28pm: FriYAY wrote on Mar 25th, 2012 at 3:25pm: Bobby. wrote on Mar 24th, 2012 at 11:27pm: By the time you are 5 you would probably have heard about religion 10000000000000000000000000 times. LOL, and you recon religion has credibility problems!! :D All this proves is that our society is delusional Cure me with a link to your claim ;) I think a link to the proof of god would be more useful LOL, how lame, you are attacking the credibility of something and can't back the credibility of your claims. Do'h.

The fact that a majority of the population believe in something no different from your average fairy tale is proof enough of my claim.
This is also 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000x more proof than anyone can come up with to back the credibility of their believing in fairy tales

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 25^th, 2012 at 2:51pm:

bump

madweekend will be at church today to see who owns the better car or who is wearing the better clothes. Isn't that why people go to church :D LOL

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 25^th, 2012 at 3:38pm:

FriYAY wrote on Mar 25th, 2012 at 3:37pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 25th, 2012 at 3:35pm: FriYAY wrote on Mar 25th, 2012 at 3:32pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 25th, 2012 at 3:28pm: FriYAY wrote on Mar 25th, 2012 at 3:25pm: Bobby. wrote on Mar 24th, 2012 at 11:27pm: By the time you are 5 you would probably have heard about religion 10000000000000000000000000 times. LOL, and you recon religion has credibility problems!! :D All this proves is that our society is delusional Cure me with a link to your claim ;) I think a link to the proof of god would be more useful LOL, how lame, you are attacking the credibility of something and can't back the credibility of your claims. Do'h. The fact that a majority of the population believe in something no different from your average fairy tale is proof enough of my claim. This is also 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000x more proof than anyone can come up with to back the credibility of their believing in fairy tales

Deflection.

You hear that? (gurgle gurgle) that's your credibility going down the toilet.

Sir lastnail wrote on Mar 25^th, 2012 at 3:40pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 25th, 2012 at 2:51pm: bump madweekend will be at church today to see who owns the better car or who is wearing the better clothes. Isn't that why people go to church :D LOL

I think he goes for the alter boys
:D

FriYAY wrote on Mar 25^th, 2012 at 3:40pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 25th, 2012 at 3:38pm: FriYAY wrote on Mar 25th, 2012 at 3:37pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 25th, 2012 at 3:35pm: FriYAY wrote on Mar 25th, 2012 at 3:32pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 25th, 2012 at 3:28pm: FriYAY wrote on Mar 25th, 2012 at 3:25pm: Bobby. wrote on Mar 24th, 2012 at 11:27pm: By the time you are 5 you would probably have heard about religion 10000000000000000000000000 times. LOL, and you recon religion has credibility problems!! :D All this proves is that our society is delusional Cure me with a link to your claim ;) I think a link to the proof of god would be more useful LOL, how lame, you are attacking the credibility of something and can't back the credibility of your claims. Do'h. The fact that a majority of the population believe in something no different from your average fairy tale is proof enough of my claim. This is also 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000x more proof than anyone can come up with to back the credibility of their believing in fairy tales Deflection. You hear that? (gurgle gurgle) that's your credibility going down the toilet.

How have I deflected anything?

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 25^th, 2012 at 3:38pm:

The fact that a majority of the population believe in something no different from your average fairy tale is proof enough of my claim. This is also 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000x more proof than anyone can come up with to back the credibility of their believing in fairy tales

what's even worse is how most politicians believe in the same fairy tales and are seen praying in churches from time to time.

watch Steve Fielding, Julie Bishop and Tony Burke make fools out of themselves defending religion on Q and A.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtVZ23GfmDo

Why do you care so much what others believe? :-/

FriYAY wrote on Mar 25^th, 2012 at 3:46pm:

Why do you care so much what others believe? :-/

Deflection

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 24^th, 2012 at 3:48pm:

Fairly simple. If you believe in fairy tales it is fairly obvious you lack credibility.

I believe?

I believe in the Exponential Economic Growth Fairy, who lives on endlessly, at the bottom of the Wall Street garden?

I believe this is so, because our Politicians told us this is the way it was, it is and it will always be?

Fairly simple?
Just like any fairy story?

perceptions_now wrote on Mar 25^th, 2012 at 3:49pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 24th, 2012 at 3:48pm: Fairly simple. If you believe in fairy tales it is fairly obvious you lack credibility. I believe? I believe in the Exponential Economic Growth Fairy, who lives on endlessly, at the bottom of the Wall Street garden? I believe this is so, because our Politicians told us this is the way it was, it is and it will always be? Fairly simple? Just like any fairy story?

just like capitilism, religion is a pay as you go system ;)

Sir lastnail wrote on Mar 25^th, 2012 at 4:33pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Mar 25th, 2012 at 3:49pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 24th, 2012 at 3:48pm: Fairly simple. If you believe in fairy tales it is fairly obvious you lack credibility. I believe? I believe in the Exponential Economic Growth Fairy, who lives on endlessly, at the bottom of the Wall Street garden? I believe this is so, because our Politicians told us this is the way it was, it is and it will always be? Fairly simple? Just like any fairy story? just like capitilism, religion is a pay as you go system ;)

except you dont go anywhere

That's not true. In the recent Muslim elections/ civil wars, the terrorists/opposition knew exactly where the great brother leaders were going, and where themselves would be one day. And vice versa. No arguments.

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 25^th, 2012 at 4:58pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Mar 25th, 2012 at 4:33pm: perceptions_now wrote on Mar 25th, 2012 at 3:49pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 24th, 2012 at 3:48pm: Fairly simple. If you believe in fairy tales it is fairly obvious you lack credibility. I believe? I believe in the Exponential Economic Growth Fairy, who lives on endlessly, at the bottom of the Wall Street garden? I believe this is so, because our Politicians told us this is the way it was, it is and it will always be? Fairly simple? Just like any fairy story? just like capitilism, religion is a pay as you go system ;) except you dont go anywhere

Nor does religion!

And Capitalism is about to shift to MK2, because it doesn't have any choice!

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 24^th, 2012 at 4:02pm:

I challenge anyone to find a difference between fairy tales and religion

Ever heard of an agnostic theist.

[The tendency to lie and the tolerance of lying in Chinese society has gone to an extreme degree:  textbooks for primary school students have been found to contain several distortions from original works, including one of Hans Christian Andersen. Many articles were tampered with so they became more "morally correct."]
The Copenhagen Scrolls are eagerly being translated by scholars to shed more light on early community beliefs.

Sir lastnail wrote on Mar 25^th, 2012 at 9:03am:

Yadda wrote on Mar 25th, 2012 at 1:10am: Bobby. wrote on Mar 24th, 2012 at 11:33pm: Also - many of them - like Longweekend are Inquisition deniers. The Inquisition went on for 600 years & at it's height they burnt 400 witches in one hour in the town of Toulouse in France. All these atrocities are documented by the Catholic Church themselves. Is religion ever used [by men, with political motives] as a reason, or as an excuse, to do wicked things ? Clearly, yes. Are those men [who do wicked things] not responsible for their choices, and actions ? but isn't that part of gods plan ? god plans all births and deaths which means that god must plan all murders, abortions, rapes, wars, terrorist attacks etc !! It's ALL part of gods plan !!

nail,

Yeah,   ....just like God compels you to be an atheist.
/sarc off

And just like how God compels me to believe that he exists.
/sarc off




And lets get drunk and riot, and rape and murder.
Its OK, coz we can't help it, coz that is all a part of God's plan for us.

And hey, if i want to have a real spiritual experience,  ....i can go to a rave, and drop some E's.
/sarc offi+++

2 Timothy 3:1
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2  For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3  Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4  Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

Yadda wrote on Mar 28^th, 2012 at 12:32am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Mar 25th, 2012 at 9:03am: Yadda wrote on Mar 25th, 2012 at 1:10am: Bobby. wrote on Mar 24th, 2012 at 11:33pm: Also - many of them - like Longweekend are Inquisition deniers. The Inquisition went on for 600 years & at it's height they burnt 400 witches in one hour in the town of Toulouse in France. All these atrocities are documented by the Catholic Church themselves. Is religion ever used [by men, with political motives] as a reason, or as an excuse, to do wicked things ? Clearly, yes. Are those men [who do wicked things] not responsible for their choices, and actions ? but isn't that part of gods plan ? god plans all births and deaths which means that god must plan all murders, abortions, rapes, wars, terrorist attacks etc !! It's ALL part of gods plan !! nail, Yeah,   ....just like God compels you to be an atheist. /sarc off And just like how God compels me to believe that he exists. /sarc off And lets get drunk and riot, and rape and murder. Its OK, coz we can't help it, coz that is all a part of God's plan for us.

Then it must be part of gods plan because god plans all births and deaths in advance so the people are blameless ;)


Quote:

Psalm 139:16 New Living Translation (NLT) 16 You saw me before I was born.     Every day of my life was recorded in your book. Every moment was laid out     before a single day had passed.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-nayP4v4xYg

"The challenge for the translators was to create a text that would make the same impact in the life of modern readers that the original text had for the original readers. In the New Living Translation, this is accomplished by translating entire thoughts (rather than just words) into natural, everyday English. "
----
By not using the actual words, the "thoughts" have impact alright, but are somebody else's ideas. In fact the opposite thought that David had.

Wow yadda you really convinced me that your religion isnt a fairy tale by quoting from a fiction book

All of it's true in fact:
[From 1996 the website of the Colchester tourist board attributed the origin of the rhyme to a cannon recorded as used from the church of St Mary-at-the-Wall by the Royalist defenders in the siege of 1648. In 1648 the town of Colchester was a walled town with a castle and several churches and was protected by the city wall. A large cannon, which the website claimed was colloquially called Humpty Dumpty, was strategically placed on the wall. A shot from a Parliamentary cannon succeeded in damaging the wall beneath Humpty Dumpty which caused the cannon to tumble to the ground. The Royalists, or Cavaliers, 'all the King's men' attempted to raise Humpty Dumpty on to another part of the wall, but because the cannon was so heavy ' All the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put Humpty together again.' ]

freediver wrote on Mar 24^th, 2012 at 6:12pm:

Is justice a fairytale?

Yes. Justice is a fallacy, it is not real, only perceived.

The US Constitution says all men are created equal.
The Australian Constitution gives good government.

Deborahmac09 wrote on Mar 28^th, 2012 at 7:23pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 24th, 2012 at 6:12pm: Is justice a fairytale? Yes. Justice is a fallacy, it is not real, only perceived.

That is like a man who has only lived in darkness, saying;

"Only darkness exists. Light is only a concept. It doesn't exist anywhere."



Justice is real, if we choose it.

The light is real, if we choose it.

Our choices are much more 'real' than this physical world, more real than even our lives.

Our choices are the tangible 'thing', which will remain of us, when our physical bodies have become dust.

Everyday in our lives, we make choices, ....and it is those choices that define who we really are.

And, we can make good choices, or, we can make poor choices.






What is 'light', what is 'justice' ?

Matthew 7:12
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.



"....the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart."
Samuel





'Justice is a fallacy, it is not real, only perceived.'



I'd rather search for the light, than sit and curse the darkness.
Yadda


Psalms 119:130
The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.

For many people, the only tangible thing about Jesus is the cross he was killed on by Roman soldiers. That was his choice and an example of justice?

chimera wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 6:00am:

For many people, the only tangible thing about Jesus is the cross he was killed on by Roman soldiers. That was his choice and an example of justice?

Except for one thing -
Jesus is a total myth - he never existed.

Romans were into fairy tales and loked for omens in how birds or animals behaved. Sometimes they wrote facts and built a few stone buildings.
[The emperor Claudius reigned 41 to 54 AD. Suetonius reports his dealings with the eastern Roman Empire, that is, with Greece and Macedonia, and with the Lycians, Rhodians, and Trojans. He then reports that the emperor expelled the Jews from Rome, since they "constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Christ" (Judaeos impulsore Chresto assidue tumultuantis Roma expulit)].

Jesus only a myth:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXemSA_l3RU

Bobby. wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 8:24am:

chimera wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 6:00am: For many people, the only tangible thing about Jesus is the cross he was killed on by Roman soldiers. That was his choice and an example of justice? Except for one thing - Jesus is a total myth - he never existed.

for people like madweekend, jesus is more real than the evidence that supports climate change :D LOL

Hi Nail,
I bet Longweekend won't even watch that video?

Bobby. wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 10:02am:

Hi Nail, I bet Longweekend won't even watch that video?

If its not from a fiction book it just doesnt have credibility

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 10:02am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 10:02am: Hi Nail, I bet Longweekend won't even watch that video? If its not from a fiction book it just doesnt have credibility

The video or the bible or what?

What does the "it" refer to?

Bobby. wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 10:04am:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 10:02am: Bobby. wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 10:02am: Hi Nail, I bet Longweekend won't even watch that video? If its not from a fiction book it just doesnt have credibility The video or the bible or what? What does the "it" refer to?

Things that longweekend listens too.

Ok - anyway it's a good video for religious people to watch.
It sort of puts things into perspective.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXemSA_l3RU&feature=player_embedded

Bobby. wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 10:07am:

Ok - anyway it's a good video for religious people to watch. It sort of puts things into perspective. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXemSA_l3RU&feature=player_embedded

Good video,
goes to show that without science we are limited to what we are told or what is already known or assumed.

Yes & the video is fair because we hear a rebuttal that is very weak from a religious person.
The fact remains that all the stories are plagiarised.

Bobby. wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 10:15am:

Yes & the video is fair because we hear a rebuttal that is very weak from a religious person. The fact remains that all the stories are plagiarised.

The fact remains that all the stories are backed by no evidence or factual reality making them akin to fairytales.

Well said. Here's some science if you have time to read, click on the left menu. Youtube videos?- just fairy tales...

http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/HORUS.htm
Horus: was not called the lamb of God, was not crucified and resurrected, ...

chimera wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 10:37am:

Well said. Here's some science if you have time to read, click on the left menu. Youtube videos?- just fairy tales... http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/HORUS.htm Horus: was not called the lamb of God, was not crucified and resurrected, ...

I don't believe in Horus anymore than I believe in Jesus
or the fairy god mother.

Quote:

Yes & the video is fair because we hear a rebuttal that is very weak from a religious person. The fact remains that all the stories are plagiarised.

Do you still believe in that post?  Robin was a con who used trick photo-shopping.

chimera wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 10:55am:

Quote: Yes & the video is fair because we hear a rebuttal that is very weak from a religious person. The fact remains that all the stories are plagiarised. Do you still believe in that post?  Robin was a con who used trick photo-shopping.

Who's Robin?

Here is the full video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsG3MxUd1jg&feature=related

Robin is the one wearing the red Tshirt and heavy glasses for the vision-impaired. But I don't believe it, he's just a Centrelink fraud.
Great video, who writes that stuff, should do comics?

chimera wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 12:01pm:

Robin is the one wearing the red Tshirt and heavy glasses for the vision-impaired. But I don't believe it, he's just a Centrelink fraud. Great video, who writes that stuff, should do comics?

I still don't know who Robin is but let's forget that.

The fact is that all points mentioned in the video
are well documented.
It's just been put into a easy format for people other
than scholars to understand.

Robin is well documented as your little friend.
batman,in the funny hat.
My pc is re-cycled dial-up cheapo and takes 14 hours to do Youtube.
Please tell me 1 documented fact about Horus being a Jesus.

chimera wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 2:45pm:

Robin is well documented as your little friend. batman,in the funny hat. My pc is re-cycled dial-up cheapo and takes 14 hours to do Youtube. Please tell me 1 documented fact about Horus being a Jesus.

Sorry to hear of your poverty.

try this link:
http://fooey.net/stuff/Horus-Jesus-Parallels.cfm



Quote:

The sun-god Horus was worshipped nearly 1,000 years before the story of Jesus. Check these parallels: Both were conceived of a virgin. Both were the "only begotten son" of a god (either Osiris or Yahweh) Horus's mother was Meri, Jesus's mother was Mary. Horus's foster father was called Jo-Seph, and Jesus's foster father was Joseph. Both foster fathers were of royal descent. Both were born in a cave (although sometimes Jesus is said to have been born in a stable). Both had their coming announced to their mother by an angel. Horus; birth was heralded by the star Sirius (the morning star). Jesus had his birth heralded by a star in the East (the sun rises in the East). Ancient Egyptians celebrated the birth of Horus on December 21 (the Winter Solstice). Modern Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25. Both births were announced by angels (this si nto the same as number 7). Both had shepherds witnessing the birth. Horus was visited at birth by "three solar deities" and Jesus was visited by "three wise men". After the birth of Horus, Herut tried to have Horus murdered. After the birth of Jesus, Herod tried to have Jesus murdered. To hide from Herut, the god That tells Isis, "Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child." To hide from Herod, an angel tells Joseph to "arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt." When Horus came of age, he had a special ritual where hsi eye was restored. When Jesus (and other Jews) come of age, they have a special ritual called a Bar Mitzvah. Both Horus and Jesus were 12 at this coming-of-age ritual. Neither have any official recorded life histories between the ages of 12 and 30. Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus. Jesus was baptized in the river Jordan. Both were baptized at age 30. Horus was baptized by Anup the Baptizer. Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist. Both Anup and John were later beheaded. Horus was taken from the desert of Amenta up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Set. Jesus was taken from the desert in Palestine up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Satan. Both Horus and Jesus successfully resist this temptation. Both have 12 disciples. Both walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, and restored sight to the blind. Horus "stilled the sea by his power." Jesus commanded the sea to be still by saying, "Peace, be still." Horus raised his dead father (Osiris) from the grave. Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave. (Note the similarity in names when you say them out loud. Further, Osiris was also known as Asar, which is El-Asar in Hebrew, which is El-Asarus in Latin.) Osiris was raised in the town of Anu. Lazarus was raised in Bethanu (literally, "house of Anu"). Both gods delivered a Sermon on the Mount. Both were crucified. Both were crucified next to two thieves. Both were buried in a tomb. Horus was sent to Hell and resurrected in 3 days. Jesus was sent to Hell and came back "three days" later (although Friday night to Sunday morning is hardly three days). Both had their resurrection announced by women. Both are supposed to return for a 1000-year reign. Horus is known as KRST, the anointed one. Jesus was known as the Christ (which means "anointed one"). Both Jesus and Horus have been called the good shepherd, the lamb of God, the bread of life, the son of man, the Word, the fisher, and the winnower. Both are associated with the zodiac sign of Pisces (the fish). Both are associated with the symbols of the fish, the beetle, the vine, and the shepherd's crook. Horus was born in Anu ("the place of bread") and Jesus was born in Bethlehem ("the house of bread"). "The infant Horus was carried out of Egypt to escape the wrath of Typhon. The infant Jesus was carried into Egypt to escape the wrath of Herod. Concerning the infant Jesus, the New Testament states the following prophecy: 'Out of Egypt have I called my son.'" Both were transfigured on the mount. The catacombs of Rome have pictures of the infant Horus being held by his mother, not unlike the modern-day images of "Madonna and Child." Noted English author C. W. King says that both Isis and Mary are called "Immaculate". Horus says: "Osiris, I am your son, come to glorify your soul, and to give you even more power." And Jesus says: "Now is the Son of Man glorified and God is glorified in him. If God is glorified in him, God will glorify the Son in himself, and will glorify him at once." Horus was identified with the Tau (cross).

There are plenty more if you do a google search.
Good luck.

Oh, but you said that is documented. You just gave a fairy tale. Just 1 fact with a hieroglyph to document it would be very nice.

chimera wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 7:06pm:

Oh, but you said that is documented. You just gave a fairy tale. Just 1 fact with a hieroglyph to document it would be very nice.

Thats not fairy tale, its a comparison of fairy tales

No it's not the facts about Horus. Please give 1 hieroglyph that supports 1 of the vudeo claims about Horus.

chimera wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 7:22pm:

No it's not the facts about Horus. Please give 1 hieroglyph that supports 1 of the vudeo claims about Horus.

Well you said you haven't watched the video.
That link above gives the closest narration that I could find.
I can't help you further.

Yes I know. A person just telling a tale about hieroglyphs is not documenting the facts. Narration is not proof. A talk by itself is a fairy tale if it's not true. Otherwise "Humpty Dumpty" is documented each time a kid repeats it.

chimera wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 7:49pm:

Yes I know. A person just telling a tale about hieroglyphs is not documenting the facts. Narration is not proof. A talk by itself is a fairy tale if it's not true. Otherwise "Humpty Dumpty" is documented each time a kid repeats it.

Well - get on google & check the statements if you're
so interested - you tell me.

Yes I posted one already. Here's another:
[Self-taught amateur Egyptologist Gerald Massey argued that the deity of Horus and Jesus shared identical mythological origins in his 1907 book Ancient Egypt, the light of the world. His views have been repeated by theologian and Toronto Star columnist Tom Harpur, author Acharya S, and political comedian Bill Maher. Theologian W. Ward Gasque composed an e-mail to twenty leading Egyptologists, including Professor Emeritus of Egyptology at the University of Liverpool Kenneth Kitchen, and Professor of Egyptology at the University of Toronto Ron Leprohan. The e-mail detailed the comparisons alleged by Massey which had been repeated by Harpur. The scholars were unanimous in dismissing any similarities suggested by Massey, and one Egyptologist criticized the comparison as "fringe nonsense."]_wikipedia. Jesus comparative mythology.

Chimera,
There's all sorts of writings on these topics e.g.
http://truthbeknown.com/osiris.htm

Sorry - it just doesn't appeal to me to be arguning about
something of no greater consequence than easter bunny
or the tooth fairy - I don't believe fairy tales -
you can clearly see that the Jesus myth is plagiarised
from older myths unless you're very stupid.

Bobby. wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 9:42pm:

Chimera, There's all sorts of writings on these topics e.g. http://truthbeknown.com/osiris.htm Sorry - it just doesn't appeal to me to be arguning about something of no greater consequence than easter bunny or the tooth fairy - I don't believe fairy tales - you can clearly see that the Jesus myth is plagiarised from older myths unless you're very stupid.

This should help him rid himself of his god delusion ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVuw1wEuaAQ

bob the bat,
It says nothing about all those similarities between Horus:Jesus , apart from the normal way all gods are thought of around the world. If Horus was not what he's made out to be, then the claim can't fit.

chimera wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 10:03pm:

bob the bat, It says nothing about all those similarities between Horus:Jesus , apart from the normal way all gods are thought of around the world. If Horus was not what he's made out to be, then the claim can't fit.

It says a lot about the title of the thread:

Does an adult who believes in fairy tales have credibility?

chimera wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 10:03pm:

bob the bat, It says nothing about all those similarities between Horus:Jesus , apart from the normal way all gods are thought of around the world. If Horus was not what he's made out to be, then the claim can't fit.

This says everything about it ;) Shows you how current day religious teachings have been plagerized from ancient Egyptian religious teachings ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDWYEbsnWMg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISkle1d45B0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGMsxl7FEDg

Once you understand the message of Jesus it ceases to matter if he was a real historical figure, or not.

MOTR wrote on Mar 31^st, 2012 at 7:13pm:

Once you understand the message of Jesus it ceases to matter if he was a real historical figure, or not.

That really doesnt justify anything.

It was belief in Horus that gave purpose for the pyramids, temples and Valley of Kings. The heiroglyphs say it all and the craftsmanship is incredible.

Truth doesnt become untruth by absence of proof. Fact isnt any less 'fact' without evidence. Evidence only confirms an already existing truth.

History is replete with examples of scientific truths being derided as myth and fairly tale only to be later confirmed by proof. But it didnt become truth when it was proven so. It was ALWAYS truth. It is one of the arrogances of man and one of his major weaknesses that if it cant be proven, it doesnt exist. Disproving something is pretty easy. Proving something is far, far harder - as any actual scientist will tell you.

Faith on the other hand can take you places science cant and never will. And that is something very few ever really understand. They dont understand how a Nobel Laureate can profess faith in a God he cannot prove or why a cosmologist sees the Hand of God in everything the universe displays. They do not understand why a great mind believes in a God they do not comprehend. And so the universe is reduced to their meagre experience and in itself, becomes a doctrine -  a religion based on the ego and nothing more.

In the end, it is the fool who says there is no God, because while He is impossible to prove (the hard task), He is also impossible to DISPROVE (the easy task).

Peoples should have respect for someone and their religious belief.

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 31^st, 2012 at 7:34pm:

Truth doesnt become untruth by absence of proof. Fact isnt any less 'fact' without evidence. Evidence only confirms an already existing truth. History is replete with examples of scientific truths being derided as myth and fairly tale only to be later confirmed by proof. But it didnt become truth when it was proven so. It was ALWAYS truth. It is one of the arrogances of man and one of his major weaknesses that if it cant be proven, it doesnt exist. Disproving something is pretty easy. Proving something is far, far harder - as any actual scientist will tell you. Faith on the other hand can take you places science cant and never will. And that is something very few ever really understand. They dont understand how a Nobel Laureate can profess faith in a God he cannot prove or why a cosmologist sees the Hand of God in everything the universe displays. They do not understand why a great mind believes in a God they do not comprehend. And so the universe is reduced to their meagre experience and in itself, becomes a doctrine -  a religion based on the ego and nothing more. In the end, it is the fool who says there is no God, because while He is impossible to prove (the hard task), He is also impossible to DISPROVE (the easy task).

Without evidence it is just conjecture and NOT truth.

And you need to disprove the existence of all of these 2500 gods that you don't believe in ;)

http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=285

Hard isn't it :D LOL

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 31^st, 2012 at 7:39pm:

Peoples should have respect for someone and their religious belief.

Not when they kill each other over it which is quite often throughout human history :(

What about Deut 13:13


Quote:

13Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; 14Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; 15Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. 16And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again.

Easier version to understand:


Quote:

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God     Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

checkout gods plan :( Who would worship the creator of this ?

madweekend would !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbF0wolvVfY

more of gods plan in action :(

madweekend reckons the thing that created this also cured his daughter !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwdCI9VfgtA

I'll just leave this here:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

In other words,

If your God chooses to let his people suffer appalling pain, suffering and tragedy, then he is not a God worthy of my worship.

If your God is powerless to stop his people suffering appalling pain, suffering and tragedy, then he is not much of a God.

NBNMyths wrote on Mar 31^st, 2012 at 9:48pm:

I'll just leave this here: Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? In other words, If your God chooses to let his people suffer appalling pain, suffering and tragedy, then he is not a God worthy of my worship. If your God is powerless to stop his people suffering appalling pain, suffering and tragedy, then he is not much of a God.

Hey NBNMyths,

You should read the story of the man Naboth,  .....his story is in 1 Kings 21

Naboth died as a righteous man. [....his righteousness is confirmed in 1 Kings 21:3]

Jesus too, died as a righteous man.



Hey NBNMyths,

Naboth's story is an example of what you are talking about [above].
Naboth was the victim of evil men, and a person whom God [apparently] was not able/willing to protect.



So what is the point, of God allowing wicked men to murder Naboth [and Jesus too] ?

What was God trying to prove, by letting wicked men murder men like Naboth [and Jesus] ?
I ask, coz hey!, you are a smart guy.
And you are a person who has the eyes to see, ...what is 'apparent', to everyone.
Right ?


And, another question....
Who are the "children of Belial" in Naboths story ???      [mentioned at, 1 Kings 21:13]

Oh, the "children of Belial", they must be those same guys that are mentioned in Bobby's post # 104
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1332568105/104#104

???


+++

SOME ANSWERS...

Naboth was murdered by the "children of Belial".


1 Kings 21:13
And there came in two men, children of Belial, and sat before him: and the men of Belial witnessed against him, even against Naboth, in the presence of the people, saying, Naboth did blaspheme God and the king. Then they carried him forth out of the city, and stoned him with stones, that he died.

The "children of Belial", are false witnesses.

n.b.
The "children of Belial" murdered Jesus too.

What did Jesus say about the "children of Belial" ???

John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

John 8:38
I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39  They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40  But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.







Who are the "children of Belial" ???

What does this bible verse mean....

Jeremiah 4:22
For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

???



Jesus again, speaking to the "children of Belial"...

Luke 16:9
And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.

That is right.

The friends [the children!] of wickedness, are, through their own choices today, 'securing' their own certain future.



Is that assertion just a fairytale?

No, this is pure scientific method, being played out in our lives.

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Newton's Third Law of Motion





Here is a simple question for you.....

Do you believe in the validity of the scientific model [i.e. 'cause and effect'] ?
OR,
Do you believe in wickedness ?


Me, i believe in the scientific method, not fairy-tales.

Yadda wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 10:05am:

[quote author=1C101C1F2B263A21520 link=1332568105/107#107 date=1333194497]I'll just leave this here: Me, i believe in the scientific method, not fairy-tales.

So do you believe the world is less than 10,000 years old ??

Science says it isn't ;)

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 11:38am:

Yadda wrote on Apr 2nd, 2012 at 10:05am: Me, i believe in the scientific method, not fairy-tales. So do you believe the world is less than 10,000 years old ?? Science says it isn't ;)

1.
Yes.

and,

2.
Science says no such thing.

Science, that is, the scientific process, has been corrupted by men.
i.e.
Men look for evidence that will support what they want to believe, and they turn away from the evidence which does not align with, and agree with, their own worldview.

And, THAT, is not science.


Google;
science fraud

278,000,000 hits






If you want to examine and challenge my arguments on this subject, here are some of them.....


Israeli scientist discovers the 'impossible'
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1317865021/33#33



Evolution, Dinosaurs, and Creation
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1224743792/0#0



did dinosaurs and humans co-exist? Losing the plot
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1313373316/6#6



EVEN BETTER.....
......IS AN IMAGE OF 70-MILLION-YEAR-OLD T-REX SOFT TISSUE.
The Missing Link...
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1242797856/89#89



Multiculti - preserve cultural id amid enemies
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1242606209/30#30



Evolution, is a theory.
Evolution, is a theory.
Evolution, is a theory.
Duh.
Is Religion compatible with Evolution?
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1312987029/8#8

Friends, believe this man. He is good Pakistani thinkings.

Karnal wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 1:37pm:

Friends, believe this man. He is good Pakistani thinkings.

LOL


K,
Haven't you got an egg to fry,  .....or something ?


p.s.
And just remember K,      .....my imaginary friend is bigger than your imaginary friend.           :P

Yadda wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 10:05am:

NBNMyths wrote on Mar 31st, 2012 at 9:48pm: I'll just leave this here: Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? In other words, If your God chooses to let his people suffer appalling pain, suffering and tragedy, then he is not a God worthy of my worship. If your God is powerless to stop his people suffering appalling pain, suffering and tragedy, then he is not much of a God. Hey NBNMyths, You should read the story of the man Naboth,  .....his story is in 1 Kings 21 Naboth died as a righteous man. [....his righteousness is confirmed in 1 Kings 21:3] Jesus too, died as a righteous man. Hey NBNMyths, Naboth's story is an example of what you are talking about [above]. Naboth was the victim of evil men, and a person whom God [apparently] was not able/willing to protect. So what is the point, of God allowing wicked men to murder Naboth [and Jesus too] ? What was God trying to prove, by letting wicked men murder men like Naboth [and Jesus] ? I ask, coz hey!, you are a smart guy. And you are a person who has the eyes to see, ...what is 'apparent', to everyone. Right ? And, another question.... Who are the "children of Belial" in Naboths story ???      [mentioned at, 1 Kings 21:13] Oh, the "children of Belial", they must be those same guys that are mentioned in Bobby's post # 104 http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1332568105/104#104 ??? +++ SOME ANSWERS... Naboth was murdered by the "children of Belial". 1 Kings 21:13 And there came in two men, children of Belial, and sat before him: and the men of Belial witnessed against him, even against Naboth, in the presence of the people, saying, Naboth did blaspheme God and the king. Then they carried him forth out of the city, and stoned him with stones, that he died. The "children of Belial", are false witnesses. n.b. The "children of Belial" murdered Jesus too. What did Jesus say about the "children of Belial" ??? John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. John 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. 39  They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40  But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. Who are the "children of Belial" ??? What does this bible verse mean.... Jeremiah 4:22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. Jesus again, speaking to the "children of Belial"... Luke 16:9 And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations. That is right. The friends [the children!] of wickedness, are, through their own choices today, 'securing' their own certain future.

Sorry, but quoting hollow lines from a thousand year-old book, written a thousand years after the events it supposedly documents, does nothing to address my point.

When you watch a 2 year old boy die in writhing agony, after an entirely miserable life, hearing someone say saying "it's all part of God's plan" is a pathetic and absolutely worthless statement. (Note that I am not talking of my own family here).

If your God, for ANY reason, thinks that allowing such tragedy to befall an innocent child is a useful activity, then I want nothing to do with him.

If your God is powerless to stop such tragedy, then he's not a god worth worshipping.

Go and spend a week at your local Children's hospital, and then come back and tell me that the needless suffering, the death, the pain, the destroyed lives and families are all the plan of your all-powerful and caring God.

Yadda wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 1:22pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 2nd, 2012 at 11:38am: Yadda wrote on Apr 2nd, 2012 at 10:05am: Me, i believe in the scientific method, not fairy-tales. So do you believe the world is less than 10,000 years old ?? Science says it isn't ;) 1. Yes. and, 2. Science says no such thing. Science, that is, the scientific process, has been corrupted by men. i.e. Men look for evidence that will support what they want to believe, and they turn away from the evidence which does not align with, and agree with, their own worldview.

And that's exactly what christians do !! They try and map the whole of the Universe into one old book written thousands of years ago by peasants !!

more of gods plan just for you !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnBH2lKDC-4

and remember what your bible says about gods plan ;)


Quote:

Psalm 139:16 New Living Translation (NLT) 16 You saw me before I was born.     Every day of my life was recorded in your book. Every moment was laid out     before a single day had passed.

NBNMyths wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 2:24pm:

Sorry, but quoting hollow lines from a thousand year-old book, written a thousand years after the events it supposedly documents, does nothing to address my point. When you watch a 2 year old boy die in writhing agony, after an entirely miserable life, hearing someone say saying "it's all part of God's plan" is a pathetic and absolutely worthless statement. (Note that I am not talking of my own family here). If your God, for ANY reason, thinks that allowing such tragedy to befall an innocent child is a useful activity, then I want nothing to do with him. If your God is powerless to stop such tragedy, then he's not a god worth worshipping. Go and spend a week at your local Children's hospital, and then come back and tell me that the needless suffering, the death, the pain, the destroyed lives and families are all the plan of your all-powerful and caring God.

It also means that god plans all murders, rapes, wars and abortions which means the humans are blameless in these acts simply because god planned it all :D LOL

NBNMyths wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 2:24pm:

Sorry, but quoting hollow lines from a thousand year-old book, written a thousand years after the events it supposedly documents, does nothing to address my point. When you watch a 2 year old boy die in writhing agony, after an entirely miserable life, hearing someone say saying "it's all part of God's plan" is a pathetic and absolutely worthless statement. (Note that I am not talking of my own family here). If your God, for ANY reason, thinks that allowing such tragedy to befall an innocent child is a useful activity, then I want nothing to do with him. If your God is powerless to stop such tragedy, then he's not a god worth worshipping. Go and spend a week at your local Children's hospital, and then come back and tell me that the needless suffering, the death, the pain, the destroyed lives and families are all the plan of your all-powerful and caring God.

Yes.

That is what the wicked do.

They themselves [the wicked] are the cause of death and corruption.

And then, when the consequences of their own choices come down upon them [and down upon those that they love], they howl like a banshee, and blame God.




Google;
miscarriage link to abortion

Google;
heroin baby

Google;
link food additives, disease

Google;
clean healthy blood, NO CANCER

etc, etc, etc.....



Why do some women choose to get abortions ?

Why do some pregnant women choose take heroin [and other psychically and physically 'corrosive' drugs] ?

Why do we men [and women] prefer a life filled with continual 'stimulation', to a peaceful healthy life ?



And why do we men [and women] reject the responsibility, for the consequences of our own choices ?

Yadda wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 2:52pm:

NBNMyths wrote on Apr 2nd, 2012 at 2:24pm: Sorry, but quoting hollow lines from a thousand year-old book, written a thousand years after the events it supposedly documents, does nothing to address my point. When you watch a 2 year old boy die in writhing agony, after an entirely miserable life, hearing someone say saying "it's all part of God's plan" is a pathetic and absolutely worthless statement. (Note that I am not talking of my own family here). If your God, for ANY reason, thinks that allowing such tragedy to befall an innocent child is a useful activity, then I want nothing to do with him. If your God is powerless to stop such tragedy, then he's not a god worth worshipping. Go and spend a week at your local Children's hospital, and then come back and tell me that the needless suffering, the death, the pain, the destroyed lives and families are all the plan of your all-powerful and caring God. Yes. That is what the wicked do. They themselves [the wicked] are the cause of death and corruption. And then, when the consequences of their own choices come down upon them [and down upon those that they love], they howl like a banshee, and blame God. Google; miscarriage link to abortion Google; heroin baby Google; link food additives, disease Google; clean healthy blood, NO CANCER etc, etc, etc..... Why do some women get abortions ? Why do some pregnant women choose take heroin [and other psychically and physically 'corrosive' drugs] ? Why do we men [and women] prefer a life filled with continual 'stimulation', to a peaceful healthy life ? And why do we men [and women] reject the responsibility, for the consequences of our own choices ?

You need to stop cherry picking from your own bible because it specifically states the following:-


Quote:

Psalm 139:16 New Living Translation (NLT) 16 You saw me before I was born.     Every day of my life was recorded in your book. Every moment was laid out     before a single day had passed.

Which can only mean one thing and that god plans all murders, rapes, wars and abortions and that means the humans are blameless in these acts no matter how evil simply because god planned it all ;) LOL

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 3:03pm:

You need to stop cherry picking from your own bible because it specifically states the following:- Quote: Psalm 139:16 New Living Translation (NLT) 16 You saw me before I was born.     Every day of my life was recorded in your book. Every moment was laid out     before a single day had passed. Which can only mean one thing and that god plans all murders, rapes, wars and abortions and that means the humans are blameless in these acts no matter how evil simply because god planned it all ;) LOL

I'm a [flawed] human being.

And i understand that a cat will stalk and hunt a mouse,   ....if the cat sees the mouse.

I know this, because i know something of the nature of a cat.

Knowing this, is not 'magic'.





Regards your assertion [i.e. god plans all murders, rapes, wars, etc], God knows our nature.  [  ...better than we do!]

And then there is the 'element' and nature of time.

Perhaps God can travel along time, just like we humans can travel back and forth along a highway.

We humans, do not [really] know what time is.

Is time constant ?

Does it speed up, or slow down ?








And regards our own conduct, is God evil, because he allows us to have, and to express, our own free will ?

Consider.

How does a child learn ?

How can a child learn anything worthwhile [about life], if its parent will not allow the child to make its own mistakes ?




+++

IMO;
You want a God who will allow you to do everything that you wish to do, but will always rescue you, from the consequences of your bad choices.

You want a God who is only beneficial to your own interests, AS YOU PERCEIVE THEM.

The difference between people like yourself, and myself, is that i trust God [i trust his intent].

I know that God is just.



But conversely, i do not trust men.

Because being one, i know their nature too!

Yadda wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 2:52pm:

NBNMyths wrote on Apr 2nd, 2012 at 2:24pm: Sorry, but quoting hollow lines from a thousand year-old book, written a thousand years after the events it supposedly documents, does nothing to address my point. When you watch a 2 year old boy die in writhing agony, after an entirely miserable life, hearing someone say saying "it's all part of God's plan" is a pathetic and absolutely worthless statement. (Note that I am not talking of my own family here). If your God, for ANY reason, thinks that allowing such tragedy to befall an innocent child is a useful activity, then I want nothing to do with him. If your God is powerless to stop such tragedy, then he's not a god worth worshipping. Go and spend a week at your local Children's hospital, and then come back and tell me that the needless suffering, the death, the pain, the destroyed lives and families are all the plan of your all-powerful and caring God. Yes. That is what the wicked do. They themselves [the wicked] are the cause of death and corruption. And then, when the consequences of their own choices come down upon them [and down upon those that they love], they howl like a banshee, and blame God. Google; miscarriage link to abortion Google; heroin baby Google; link food additives, disease Google; clean healthy blood, NO CANCER etc, etc, etc..... Why do some women choose to get abortions ? Why do some pregnant women choose take heroin [and other psychically and physically 'corrosive' drugs] ? Why do we men [and women] prefer a life filled with continual 'stimulation', to a peaceful healthy life ? And why do we men [and women] reject the responsibility, for the consequences of our own choices ?

What a load of rubbish, on so may levels.

First, inflicting pain, suffering, misery and death on an innocent child is not punishing the (supposedly) wicked parents, it is punishing the innocent child. If you (and your god) can't see that, then you are from a bizarre reality indeed.

Second, the thought that pain, suffering, misery and death only occur to "wicked" parents who have undertaken abortions, been addicted to heroin etc etc is absolute bunkum.

Let me give you an example. A close relative of mine is an absolutely devout Christian. Lives her life entirely focussed around God and the Bible. She has been this way all her life. Never taken drugs, doesn't even drink or smoke. Never "lived in Sin", goes to Church every Sunday, cooks, cleans, does volunteer work for the church, gives stuff away. Been overseas as a missionary. etc etc. You get the idea.

They have 5 children, and has had 4 miscarriages along the way. She has one chronically ill child. Lost their house when their business went under, because they were ripped off by the person they bought it from (who is laughing all the way to the bank). Hubby works 6 days a week, and spends the 7th helping to run their local church.

Where is the wickedness that caused God to deliver them this adversity?

Yadda wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 3:36pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 2nd, 2012 at 3:03pm: You need to stop cherry picking from your own bible because it specifically states the following:- Quote: Psalm 139:16 New Living Translation (NLT) 16 You saw me before I was born.     Every day of my life was recorded in your book. Every moment was laid out     before a single day had passed. Which can only mean one thing and that god plans all murders, rapes, wars and abortions and that means the humans are blameless in these acts no matter how evil simply because god planned it all ;) LOL I'm a [flawed] human being. And i understand that a cat will stalk and hunt a mouse,   ....if the cat sees the mouse. I know this, because i know something of the nature of a cat. Knowing this, is not 'magic'. Regards your assertion [i.e. god plans all murders, rapes, wars, etc], God knows our nature.  [  ...better than we do!] And then there is the 'element' and nature of time. Perhaps God can travel along time, just like we humans can travel back and forth along a highway. We humans, do not [really] know what time is. Is time constant ? Does it speed up, or slow down ? And regards our own conduct, is God evil, because he allows us to have, and to express, our own free will ? Consider. How does a child learn ? How can a child learn anything worthwhile [about life], if its parent will not allow the child to make its own mistakes ? +++ IMO; You want a God who will allow you to do everything that you wish to do, but will always rescue you, from the consequences of your bad choices. You want a God who is only beneficial to your own interests, AS YOU PERCEIVE THEM. The difference between people like yourself, and myself, is that i trust God [i trust his intent]. I know that God is just. But conversely, i do not trust men. Because being one, i know their nature too!

You are missing the point. Human beings have no control in the matter since their actions are predetermined as part of gods plan. If an all knowing god knows the future in advance then humans are powerless to change it no matter how bad their actions are ! Free will contradicts the property of an all knowing Omniscient god which has already determined the future in advance. There are many contradictions like this in the bible which is why people who preach it look and sound so stupid :D LOL

speaking of fairytales, lastnail is supposedly an international businessman driving a 'luxury' $50,000 car.

truth is he is a servo operator driving a 1992 holden and living in one room of a shared house.

now HE is a teller of fairytales.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 6:49pm:

speaking of fairytales, lastnail is supposedly an international businessman driving a 'luxury' $50,000 car. truth is he is a servo operator driving a 1992 holden and living in one room of a shared house. now HE is a teller of fairytales.

so how is Jesus going ?? Have you seen him lately :D LOL

and I have never made those claims about myself. Unlike you I don't have to high note myself about being a water trainer,  whatever the bugger that is :D LOL

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 7:02pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2nd, 2012 at 6:49pm: speaking of fairytales, lastnail is supposedly an international businessman driving a 'luxury' $50,000 car. truth is he is a servo operator driving a 1992 holden and living in one room of a shared house. now HE is a teller of fairytales. so how is Jesus going ?? Have you seen him lately :D LOL and I have never made those claims about myself. Unlike you I don't have to high note myself about being a water trainer,  whatever the bugger that is :D LOL

your girlfriend booby tells us all about you and your successful business and your *inser mocking* 'luxury' car worth $50K!!! I wonder if booby has priced actual luxury cars in the lat ten years! and you yourselfe tells us about all your R&D except of course what it is or even in what area it is.

you are FULL of fairytales.

Suprised you have the gut to talk on this thread longy...
No suprise your not talking to me tho,
hmm still cant answer a question?

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 7:10pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 2nd, 2012 at 7:02pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2nd, 2012 at 6:49pm: speaking of fairytales, lastnail is supposedly an international businessman driving a 'luxury' $50,000 car. truth is he is a servo operator driving a 1992 holden and living in one room of a shared house. now HE is a teller of fairytales. so how is Jesus going ?? Have you seen him lately :D LOL and I have never made those claims about myself. Unlike you I don't have to high note myself about being a water trainer,  whatever the bugger that is :D LOL your girlfriend booby tells us all about you and your successful business and your *inser mocking* 'luxury' car worth $50K!!! I wonder if booby has priced actual luxury cars in the lat ten years! and you yourselfe tells us about all your R&D except of course what it is or even in what area it is. you are FULL of fairytales.

Longweekend.
What has Nail's luxury car got to do with this thread?
LW - you always change the topic when confronted with the truth.
You must have learnt from JuLiar.

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 7:10pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 2nd, 2012 at 7:02pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2nd, 2012 at 6:49pm: speaking of fairytales, lastnail is supposedly an international businessman driving a 'luxury' $50,000 car. truth is he is a servo operator driving a 1992 holden and living in one room of a shared house. now HE is a teller of fairytales. so how is Jesus going ?? Have you seen him lately :D LOL and I have never made those claims about myself. Unlike you I don't have to high note myself about being a water trainer,  whatever the bugger that is :D LOL your girlfriend booby tells us all about you and your successful business and your *inser mocking* 'luxury' car worth $50K!!! I wonder if booby has priced actual luxury cars in the lat ten years! and you yourselfe tells us about all your R&D except of course what it is or even in what area it is. you are FULL of fairytales.

it's funny how you hang on to bobby's every word but you won't believe the authorities word on climate change. You have such a simple mind. No wonder you have a paranormal friend called jesus :D LOL

Bobby. wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 7:30pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2nd, 2012 at 7:10pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 2nd, 2012 at 7:02pm: longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2nd, 2012 at 6:49pm: speaking of fairytales, lastnail is supposedly an international businessman driving a 'luxury' $50,000 car. truth is he is a servo operator driving a 1992 holden and living in one room of a shared house. now HE is a teller of fairytales. so how is Jesus going ?? Have you seen him lately :D LOL and I have never made those claims about myself. Unlike you I don't have to high note myself about being a water trainer,  whatever the bugger that is :D LOL your girlfriend booby tells us all about you and your successful business and your *inser mocking* 'luxury' car worth $50K!!! I wonder if booby has priced actual luxury cars in the lat ten years! and you yourselfe tells us about all your R&D except of course what it is or even in what area it is. you are FULL of fairytales. Longweekend. What has Nail's luxury car got to do with this thread? LW - you always change the topic when confronted with the truth. You must have learnt from JuLiar.

it's because he's already lost the argument so he has to resort to fallacies :D LOL

I'm an Atheist, but I do think religions have a place in human society beyond the average fairy tale. You can't stop humans from being different, and different people need different things and understand different things. Religion arose as a way to explain phenomena and morals that were new to a still evolving social animal, spirituality/religion allowed humans to philosophise beyond what they can see/feel/touch/eat etc.

While we've come beyond those early days of abstract thought (and now call it philosophy), religion has been with us every step of the way. Religious texts record history, major events, people who influenced others, and thinkers who expressed their points in allegory and stories (stories have always had power, bardic tradition and history has always been mixed together). Religion has also been the glue that bound many different groups of humans together to form stable societies where culture flourished (most ancient civilisations had major national religions).

The problem is that religious texts are often taken to literal extremes. Like all stories, they are open to interpretation and manipulation. Rather than focusing the blame on innocent believers who use their religion to temper their own behaviour, who find peace in a chaotic world through tradition, one should instead focus on those who interpret the texts in order to back up their bigotry and prejudice without the ability to see that they've hijacked the story.

There is a lot of power and money riding on religion, as well as pride and prejudices that are centuries old. To dismiss the whole complex subject by simply saying that all religious/spiritual people are gullible is the same as extremely religious people saying all non-believers lack morals. It's inflammatory, based on a narrow view of the world and people, and makes wild assumptions about someone you've never met.

People who accept any random scientific paper as truth can also be described as gullible, especially since most people don't bother checking up on whether the paper is peer-reviewed, from a reputable institution, is not 100 years old, and is part of a large body of evidence. It really depends on your point of view, what they are taking from the bible, and how far they take it.

I have no problem with people who say: "I'm Christian, and I believe Jesus lived, and I believe in his message to Christians and I will endeavour to be a good Christian." I only have problems with Christians who then go on to say: "To be a good Christian, I should also make sure everyone else obeys the bible regardless of whether they believe what I believe - gays go die."

Loki wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2012 at 3:52pm:

I'm an Atheist, but I do think religions have a place in human society beyond the average fairy tale. You can't stop humans from being different, and different people need different things and understand different things. Religion arose as a way to explain phenomena and morals that were new to a still evolving social animal, spirituality/religion allowed humans to philosophise beyond what they can see/feel/touch/eat etc. While we've come beyond those early days of abstract thought (and now call it philosophy), religion has been with us every step of the way. Religious texts record history, major events, people who influenced others, and thinkers who expressed their points in allegory and stories (stories have always had power, bardic tradition and history has always been mixed together). Religion has also been the glue that bound many different groups of humans together to form stable societies where culture flourished (most ancient civilisations had major national religions). The problem is that religious texts are often taken to literal extremes. Like all stories, they are open to interpretation and manipulation. Rather than focusing the blame on innocent believers who use their religion to temper their own behaviour, who find peace in a chaotic world through tradition, one should instead focus on those who interpret the texts in order to back up their bigotry and prejudice without the ability to see that they've hijacked the story. There is a lot of power and money riding on religion, as well as pride and prejudices that are centuries old. To dismiss the whole complex subject by simply saying that all religious/spiritual people are gullible is the same as extremely religious people saying all non-believers lack morals. It's inflammatory, based on a narrow view of the world and people, and makes wild assumptions about someone you've never met. People who accept any random scientific paper as truth can also be described as gullible, especially since most people don't bother checking up on whether the paper is peer-reviewed, from a reputable institution, is not 100 years old, and is part of a large body of evidence. It really depends on your point of view, what they are taking from the bible, and how far they take it. I have no problem with people who say: "I'm Christian, and I believe Jesus lived, and I believe in his message to Christians and I will endeavour to be a good Christian." I only have problems with Christians who then go on to say: "To be a good Christian, I should also make sure everyone else obeys the bible regardless of whether they believe what I believe - gays go die."

I have to disagree with your views on how religion arose. I think it arose as a way to control the masses. By giving them something they couldn't disprove and were to afraid to object too.

Loki wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2012 at 3:52pm:

I'm an Atheist, but I do think religions have a place in human society beyond the average fairy tale. You can't stop humans from being different, and different people need different things and understand different things. Religion arose as a way to explain phenomena and morals that were new to a still evolving social animal, spirituality/religion allowed humans to philosophise beyond what they can see/feel/touch/eat etc. While we've come beyond those early days of abstract thought (and now call it philosophy), religion has been with us every step of the way. Religious texts record history, major events, people who influenced others, and thinkers who expressed their points in allegory and stories (stories have always had power, bardic tradition and history has always been mixed together). Religion has also been the glue that bound many different groups of humans together to form stable societies where culture flourished (most ancient civilisations had major national religions). The problem is that religious texts are often taken to literal extremes. Like all stories, they are open to interpretation and manipulation. Rather than focusing the blame on innocent believers who use their religion to temper their own behaviour, who find peace in a chaotic world through tradition, one should instead focus on those who interpret the texts in order to back up their bigotry and prejudice without the ability to see that they've hijacked the story. There is a lot of power and money riding on religion, as well as pride and prejudices that are centuries old. To dismiss the whole complex subject by simply saying that all religious/spiritual people are gullible is the same as extremely religious people saying all non-believers lack morals. It's inflammatory, based on a narrow view of the world and people, and makes wild assumptions about someone you've never met. People who accept any random scientific paper as truth can also be described as gullible, especially since most people don't bother checking up on whether the paper is peer-reviewed, from a reputable institution, is not 100 years old, and is part of a large body of evidence. It really depends on your point of view, what they are taking from the bible, and how far they take it. I have no problem with people who say: "I'm Christian, and I believe Jesus lived, and I believe in his message to Christians and I will endeavour to be a good Christian." I only have problems with Christians who then go on to say: "To be a good Christian, I should also make sure everyone else obeys the bible regardless of whether they believe what I believe - gays go die."

That  just about sums up where I stand, except that I'm an atheistic theist.   

However the atheistic part and the theist part refer to different definitions of god.  ;D

Johnsmith wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2012 at 4:10pm:

I have to disagree with your views on how religion arose. I think it arose as a way to control the masses. By giving them something they couldn't disprove and were to afraid to object too.

And we can totally disagree. I generally believe that religions arise as a way to see a path forward before political philosophy and moral philosophy and science parted ways. I also believe that it played a very important role in bringing groups of people together (forming a society), which does support a 'controlling' view. It is not inherently true however that when people who believe similar things gather it automatically turns the belief into a system of control, I think it takes people to deliberately pervert and exploit systems like this.

Most religious texts are focused on an individual (it's a personal message) rather than a hierarchy. While the hierarchy (kings, governments) exploit the message, it is the personal message that seems to touch believers - the bible/koran speaks to THEM. Leaders have been known historically to change religion and religious laws to suit themselves (pharaohs are a good example), but the rise of the religion is usually small, from niche groups and among the common people, and not a grandiose vision that sweeps a nation from top to bottom.

By the time Christianity found the British, it was already no longer a religious philosophy, but a rule book, it was already political (European history is full of this) because money, property and power was tied up in the church. The humblest beginnings of religion, even if it had the best intentions in mind - to get everyone to act as a good person in the context of the times - will become corrupt. Even the most modern/progressive religious philosophy will become dated and thus require new interpretations.

I admit I base my views on the history of religions as they travel and spread, less about their immediate effect on the microsociety where they first arise. It is almost impossible now to know whether the earliest 'prophets' were trying to make sense of chaos and bring order or trying to gain personal power.

NBNMyths wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 4:26pm:

Let me give you an example. A close relative of mine is an absolutely devout Christian. Lives her life entirely focussed around God and the Bible. She has been this way all her life. Never taken drugs, doesn't even drink or smoke. Never "lived in Sin", goes to Church every Sunday, cooks, cleans, does volunteer work for the church, gives stuff away. Been overseas as a missionary. etc etc. You get the idea. They have 5 children, and has had 4 miscarriages along the way. She has one chronically ill child. Lost their house when their business went under, because they were ripped off by the person they bought it from (who is laughing all the way to the bank). Hubby works 6 days a week, and spends the 7th helping to run their local church. Where is the wickedness that caused God to deliver them this adversity?

NBNMyths,

I am sorry for the circumstances that you relate, that your relative finds herself in.

Can i explain it ?

No.



Is there an 'explanation' ?

I would assume that yes, there is a reason for her and her family's circumstances.

Maybe, their path, is the path that God has chosen for them.

Or maybe, their path [the path they have chosen], is the path they have [inadvertently] chosen for themselves.



How to change their circumstances ?

They should pray to God, and ask him to explain their hardships, and ask him to rescue them, from their hardships.



1 Thessalonians 5:17
Pray without ceasing.
18  In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2012 at 5:30pm:

Yadda wrote on Apr 2nd, 2012 at 3:36pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 2nd, 2012 at 3:03pm: You need to stop cherry picking from your own bible because it specifically states the following:- Quote: Psalm 139:16 New Living Translation (NLT) 16 You saw me before I was born.     Every day of my life was recorded in your book. Every moment was laid out     before a single day had passed. Which can only mean one thing and that god plans all murders, rapes, wars and abortions and that means the humans are blameless in these acts no matter how evil simply because god planned it all ;) LOL I'm a [flawed] human being. And i understand that a cat will stalk and hunt a mouse,   ....if the cat sees the mouse. I know this, because i know something of the nature of a cat. Knowing this, is not 'magic'. Regards your assertion [i.e. god plans all murders, rapes, wars, etc], God knows our nature.  [  ...better than we do!] And then there is the 'element' and nature of time. Perhaps God can travel along time, just like we humans can travel back and forth along a highway. We humans, do not [really] know what time is. Is time constant ? Does it speed up, or slow down ? And regards our own conduct, is God evil, because he allows us to have, and to express, our own free will ? Consider. How does a child learn ? How can a child learn anything worthwhile [about life], if its parent will not allow the child to make its own mistakes ? +++ IMO; You want a God who will allow you to do everything that you wish to do, but will always rescue you, from the consequences of your bad choices. You want a God who is only beneficial to your own interests, AS YOU PERCEIVE THEM. The difference between people like yourself, and myself, is that i trust God [i trust his intent]. I know that God is just. But conversely, i do not trust men. Because being one, i know their nature too! You are missing the point. Human beings have no control in the matter since their actions are predetermined as part of gods plan. If an all knowing god knows the future in advance then humans are powerless to change it no matter how bad their actions are ! Free will contradicts the property of an all knowing Omniscient god which has already determined the future in advance. There are many contradictions like this in the bible which is why people who preach it look and sound so stupid :D LOL

nail,

What you state, is untrue.

Dictionary;
automaton  = =
1 a moving mechanical device made in imitation of a human being.
2 a machine which performs a function according to a set of coded instructions.



nail,

What you are stating, proposing is that we humans, are automaton's.

And, that none of us, have, or can make choices.


That is not true.

It is true, that this world tends to try to, compel us, to act in a certain way.

But the choice in how we act in this world, is always our own.



e.g.
Many people in this world, live in poverty.
But many of those poor people do not choose to rob others [they choose not to be criminals].

Whereas, some of the wealthiest people on the planet, will lie and cheat, and rob, to gain even more wealth for themselves.

Why so ?

IMO, these type of people, are the 'automatons'.

Yes, they are wicked people, and no, they cannot 'help' themselves.





+++

Psalms 73:6
Therefore pride compasseth them about as a chain; violence covereth them as a garment.
7  Their eyes stand out with fatness: they have more than heart could wish.
8  They are corrupt, and speak wickedly concerning oppression: they speak loftily.
9  They set their mouth against the heavens, and their tongue walketh through the earth.
10  Therefore his people return hither: and waters of a full cup are wrung out to them.
11  And they say, How doth God know? and is there knowledge in the most High?
12  Behold, these are the ungodly, who prosper in the world; they increase in riches.

Yadda wrote on Apr 4^th, 2012 at 12:16pm:

nail, What you state, is untrue. Dictionary; automaton  = = 1 a moving mechanical device made in imitation of a human being. 2 a machine which performs a function according to a set of coded instructions. nail, What you are stating, proposing is that we humans, are automaton's. And, that none of us, have, or can make choices. That is not true. It is true, that this world tends to try to, compel us, to act in a certain way. But the choice in how we act in this world, is always our own. e.g. Many people in this world, live in poverty. But many of those poor people do not choose to rob others [they choose not to be criminals]. Whereas, some of the wealthiest people on the planet, will lie and cheat, and rob, to gain even more wealth for themselves. Why so ? IMO, these type of people, are the 'automatons'. Yes, they are wicked people, and no, they cannot 'help' themselves. +++ Psalms 73:6 Therefore pride compasseth them about as a chain; violence covereth them as a garment. 7  Their eyes stand out with fatness: they have more than heart could wish. 8  They are corrupt, and speak wickedly concerning oppression: they speak loftily. 9  They set their mouth against the heavens, and their tongue walketh through the earth. 10  Therefore his people return hither: and waters of a full cup are wrung out to them. 11  And they say, How doth God know? and is there knowledge in the most High? 12  Behold, these are the ungodly, who prosper in the world; they increase in riches.

NO YOU ARE WRONG !!


Quote:

om·nis·cient   [om-nish-uhnt]  Show IPA adjective 1. having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.

God knows the future so it is not possible for humans to change it so therefore there is no free will !!

We are all part of gods plan !!