http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1332801979/38#38


Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 12:56pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 12:52pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 12:49pm: Doctor Jolly wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 12:47pm: Anyone who seeks to proclaim a desire to  injury or kill someone is usually one of: - immature. - unhinged right wing extremist. This you must change to innocent civilian i think. There is not problem in support of removal of terrorist who act to do killing of people. No. most definitely not. The definition of what the difference between a "terrorist" and a "freedom fighter" is purely political. People who would blow up women and children is not anything more than terrorist - no matter what they believes and says.

You heard it people straight from an IDF soldier

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 1:30pm:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1332801979/38#38 Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 12:56pm: Doctor Jolly wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 12:52pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 12:49pm: Doctor Jolly wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 12:47pm: Anyone who seeks to proclaim a desire to  injury or kill someone is usually one of: - immature. - unhinged right wing extremist. This you must change to innocent civilian i think. There is not problem in support of removal of terrorist who act to do killing of people. No. most definitely not. The definition of what the difference between a "terrorist" and a "freedom fighter" is purely political. People who would blow up women and children is not anything more than terrorist - no matter what they believes and says. You heard it people straight from an IDF soldier

No, you didn't.
You only imagine you did.
The IDF does not deliberately target children.
Period.  Ever.
Hamas does, and also used children during Operation Cast Lead in an attempt to shield their missile and mortar crews to no avail.
Islamic animals in the West bank last year strapped a bomb belt onto a mentally handicapped boy last year in an attempt to blow up a checkpoint.
An Israeli soldier walked out from behind the sandbags to disarm the bomb on the boy.
You think that the citizens of Gaza were phoning IDF headquarters in Israel in 2008 to give them the location of missile launch sites in Gaza, because the IDF are such bad people.
Israel has always tried to minimise civilian casualties, and will always continue to do so.
Wake up to yourself.

Quote:

People who would blow up women and children is not anything more than terrorist - no matter what they believes and says.

There is no wriggling out of these one.
He said it plain and simple
Anyone who kills women and children which Israel does are terrorists

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 2:28pm:

Quote: People who would blow up women and children is not anything more than terrorist - no matter what they believes and says. There is no wriggling out of these one. He said it plain and simple Anyone who kills women and children which Israel does are terrorists

YAAAAAAAAWN

weeeell by that logic, If I was involved in a car crash that claimed the lives of women and children, that'd make me a terrorist.

get over it man.  This obsession is lame.

... wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 2:34pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 2:28pm: Quote: People who would blow up women and children is not anything more than terrorist - no matter what they believes and says. There is no wriggling out of these one. He said it plain and simple Anyone who kills women and children which Israel does are terrorists YAAAAAAAAWN weeeell by that logic, If I was involved in a car crash that claimed the lives of women and children, that'd make me a terrorist. get over it man.  This obsession is lame.

Its not lame to give a shyt about people and human rights violations

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 2:28pm:

Quote: People who would blow up women and children is not anything more than terrorist - no matter what they believes and says. There is no wriggling out of these one. He said it plain and simple Anyone who kills women and children which Israel does are terrorists

You logic escapes all reality.
Children have died accidently in wars since time began.

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 1:30pm:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1332801979/38#38 Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 12:56pm: Doctor Jolly wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 12:52pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 12:49pm: Doctor Jolly wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 12:47pm: Anyone who seeks to proclaim a desire to  injury or kill someone is usually one of: - immature. - unhinged right wing extremist. This you must change to innocent civilian i think. There is not problem in support of removal of terrorist who act to do killing of people. No. most definitely not. The definition of what the difference between a "terrorist" and a "freedom fighter" is purely political. People who would blow up women and children is not anything more than terrorist - no matter what they believes and says. You heard it people straight from an IDF soldier

I has finished in the army - i am student in Australia.

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 2:43pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 2:28pm: Quote: People who would blow up women and children is not anything more than terrorist - no matter what they believes and says. There is no wriggling out of these one. He said it plain and simple Anyone who kills women and children which Israel does are terrorists You logic escapes all reality. Children have died accidently in wars since time began.

Right so its war when we do it but terrorism when they do the exact same thing.

He said it not me.
Stop trying to argue the point with me.

He clearly said that what you are arguing is not relevant because they kill women and children

double post

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 2:45pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 1:30pm: http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1332801979/38#38 Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 12:56pm: Doctor Jolly wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 12:52pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 12:49pm: Doctor Jolly wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 12:47pm: Anyone who seeks to proclaim a desire to  injury or kill someone is usually one of: - immature. - unhinged right wing extremist. This you must change to innocent civilian i think. There is not problem in support of removal of terrorist who act to do killing of people. No. most definitely not. The definition of what the difference between a "terrorist" and a "freedom fighter" is purely political. People who would blow up women and children is not anything more than terrorist - no matter what they believes and says. You heard it people straight from an IDF soldier I has finished in the army - i am student in Australia.

ex-idf soldier
you would still be a reserve wouldnt you tho?

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 2:36pm:

... wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 2:34pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 2:28pm: Quote: People who would blow up women and children is not anything more than terrorist - no matter what they believes and says. There is no wriggling out of these one. He said it plain and simple Anyone who kills women and children which Israel does are terrorists YAAAAAAAAWN weeeell by that logic, If I was involved in a car crash that claimed the lives of women and children, that'd make me a terrorist. get over it man.  This obsession is lame. Its not lame to give a shyt about people and human rights violations

It is lame when it's ALL you do.

... wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 3:04pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 2:36pm: ... wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 2:34pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 2:28pm: Quote: People who would blow up women and children is not anything more than terrorist - no matter what they believes and says. There is no wriggling out of these one. He said it plain and simple Anyone who kills women and children which Israel does are terrorists YAAAAAAAAWN weeeell by that logic, If I was involved in a car crash that claimed the lives of women and children, that'd make me a terrorist. get over it man.  This obsession is lame. Its not lame to give a shyt about people and human rights violations It is lame when it's ALL you do.

Sorry I will worry more about dancing with the stars

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 3:06pm:

... wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:04pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 2:36pm: ... wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 2:34pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 2:28pm: Quote: People who would blow up women and children is not anything more than terrorist - no matter what they believes and says. There is no wriggling out of these one. He said it plain and simple Anyone who kills women and children which Israel does are terrorists YAAAAAAAAWN weeeell by that logic, If I was involved in a car crash that claimed the lives of women and children, that'd make me a terrorist. get over it man.  This obsession is lame. Its not lame to give a shyt about people and human rights violations It is lame when it's ALL you do. Sorry I will worry more about dancing with the stars

You should worry more about getting laid son. 

... wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 3:13pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:06pm: ... wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:04pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 2:36pm: ... wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 2:34pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 2:28pm: Quote: People who would blow up women and children is not anything more than terrorist - no matter what they believes and says. There is no wriggling out of these one. He said it plain and simple Anyone who kills women and children which Israel does are terrorists YAAAAAAAAWN weeeell by that logic, If I was involved in a car crash that claimed the lives of women and children, that'd make me a terrorist. get over it man.  This obsession is lame. Its not lame to give a shyt about people and human rights violations It is lame when it's ALL you do. Sorry I will worry more about dancing with the stars You should worry more about getting laid son.

Right

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 2:43pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 2:28pm: Quote: People who would blow up women and children is not anything more than terrorist - no matter what they believes and says. There is no wriggling out of these one. He said it plain and simple Anyone who kills women and children which Israel does are terrorists You logic escapes all reality. Children have died accidently in wars since time began.

He is 15yo!! thats why he comes up with these absurdities. what he calls a terrorist is simplistic in the extreme.

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 3:50pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 2:43pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 2:28pm: Quote: People who would blow up women and children is not anything more than terrorist - no matter what they believes and says. There is no wriggling out of these one. He said it plain and simple Anyone who kills women and children which Israel does are terrorists You logic escapes all reality. Children have died accidently in wars since time began. He is 15yo!! thats why he comes up with these absurdities. what he calls a terrorist is simplistic in the extreme.

This is about what avram said
Also,
do you believe the world is 10,000 years old dipshyt?

i am sorry but i never has ever speak for the entire state of Israel.

i have always said that peoples who deliberate target women and children and civilians is terrorist.

In IDF we does not do this.

But no i am not soldier now, i am student and i do not speak for all Israel. Is my opinion, me.

... wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 3:13pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:06pm: ... wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:04pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 2:36pm: ... wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 2:34pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 2:28pm: Quote: People who would blow up women and children is not anything more than terrorist - no matter what they believes and says. There is no wriggling out of these one. He said it plain and simple Anyone who kills women and children which Israel does are terrorists YAAAAAAAAWN weeeell by that logic, If I was involved in a car crash that claimed the lives of women and children, that'd make me a terrorist. get over it man.  This obsession is lame. Its not lame to give a shyt about people and human rights violations It is lame when it's ALL you do. Sorry I will worry more about dancing with the stars You should worry more about getting laid son.

but not for 3 more years.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 3:57pm:

i am sorry but i never has ever speak for the entire state of Israel. i have always said that peoples who deliberate target women and children and civilians is terrorist. In IDF we does not do this. But no i am not soldier now, i am student and i do not speak for all Israel. Is my opinion, me.

Here is a scenario:
You have 3 people infront of you.
1 innocent women on the left, 1 'terrorist' in the middle, and 1 innocent child on the right.
You know that if you shoot you will kill all 3, but you want to kill the terrorist (for the record he is not doing anything bad at this time).

Do you shoot?

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 3:59pm:

... wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:13pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:06pm: ... wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:04pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 2:36pm: ... wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 2:34pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 2:28pm: Quote: People who would blow up women and children is not anything more than terrorist - no matter what they believes and says. There is no wriggling out of these one. He said it plain and simple Anyone who kills women and children which Israel does are terrorists YAAAAAAAAWN weeeell by that logic, If I was involved in a car crash that claimed the lives of women and children, that'd make me a terrorist. get over it man.  This obsession is lame. Its not lame to give a shyt about people and human rights violations It is lame when it's ALL you do. Sorry I will worry more about dancing with the stars You should worry more about getting laid son.  but not for 3 more years.

:(
Do you believe the earth is 10,000 years old?

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 4:03pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:57pm: i am sorry but i never has ever speak for the entire state of Israel. i have always said that peoples who deliberate target women and children and civilians is terrorist. In IDF we does not do this. But no i am not soldier now, i am student and i do not speak for all Israel. Is my opinion, me. Here is a scenario: You have 3 people infront of you. 1 innocent women on the left, 1 'terrorist' in the middle, and 1 innocent child on the right. You know that if you shoot you will kill all 3, but you want to kill the terrorist (for the record he is not doing anything bad at this time). Do you shoot?

the real scenario is what do you do if that person has his finger on a missile launch button that will kill dozens

try answering that one, simpleton!

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 4:21pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:03pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:57pm: i am sorry but i never has ever speak for the entire state of Israel. i have always said that peoples who deliberate target women and children and civilians is terrorist. In IDF we does not do this. But no i am not soldier now, i am student and i do not speak for all Israel. Is my opinion, me. Here is a scenario: You have 3 people infront of you. 1 innocent women on the left, 1 'terrorist' in the middle, and 1 innocent child on the right. You know that if you shoot you will kill all 3, but you want to kill the terrorist (for the record he is not doing anything bad at this time). Do you shoot? the real scenario is what do you do if that person has his finger on a missile launch button that will kill dozens try answering that one, simpleton!

I would stop the Israeli terrorist from launching the missile

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 4:22pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:21pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:03pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:57pm: i am sorry but i never has ever speak for the entire state of Israel. i have always said that peoples who deliberate target women and children and civilians is terrorist. In IDF we does not do this. But no i am not soldier now, i am student and i do not speak for all Israel. Is my opinion, me. Here is a scenario: You have 3 people infront of you. 1 innocent women on the left, 1 'terrorist' in the middle, and 1 innocent child on the right. You know that if you shoot you will kill all 3, but you want to kill the terrorist (for the record he is not doing anything bad at this time). Do you shoot? the real scenario is what do you do if that person has his finger on a missile launch button that will kill dozens try answering that one, simpleton! I would stop the Israeli terrorist from launching the missile

i figured a complex argument would exceed your capacity. You are just another mindless drone that has yet to gow the capacity to think and reason.

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 4:27pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:22pm: longweekend58 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:21pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:03pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:57pm: i am sorry but i never has ever speak for the entire state of Israel. i have always said that peoples who deliberate target women and children and civilians is terrorist. In IDF we does not do this. But no i am not soldier now, i am student and i do not speak for all Israel. Is my opinion, me. Here is a scenario: You have 3 people infront of you. 1 innocent women on the left, 1 'terrorist' in the middle, and 1 innocent child on the right. You know that if you shoot you will kill all 3, but you want to kill the terrorist (for the record he is not doing anything bad at this time). Do you shoot? the real scenario is what do you do if that person has his finger on a missile launch button that will kill dozens try answering that one, simpleton! I would stop the Israeli terrorist from launching the missile i figured a complex argument would exceed your capacity. You are just another mindless drone that has yet to gow the capacity to think and reason.

Then answer my complex argument and I will answer yours

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 4:30pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:27pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:22pm: longweekend58 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:21pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:03pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:57pm: i am sorry but i never has ever speak for the entire state of Israel. i have always said that peoples who deliberate target women and children and civilians is terrorist. In IDF we does not do this. But no i am not soldier now, i am student and i do not speak for all Israel. Is my opinion, me. Here is a scenario: You have 3 people infront of you. 1 innocent women on the left, 1 'terrorist' in the middle, and 1 innocent child on the right. You know that if you shoot you will kill all 3, but you want to kill the terrorist (for the record he is not doing anything bad at this time). Do you shoot? the real scenario is what do you do if that person has his finger on a missile launch button that will kill dozens try answering that one, simpleton! I would stop the Israeli terrorist from launching the missile i figured a complex argument would exceed your capacity. You are just another mindless drone that has yet to gow the capacity to think and reason. Then answer my complex argument and I will answer yours

you were asked to choose between one terrorist with two innocents and the deaths of dozens or hundreds.

but the argument exceeds your moral capacity.

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 4:32pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:30pm: longweekend58 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:27pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:22pm: longweekend58 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:21pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:03pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:57pm: i am sorry but i never has ever speak for the entire state of Israel. i have always said that peoples who deliberate target women and children and civilians is terrorist. In IDF we does not do this. But no i am not soldier now, i am student and i do not speak for all Israel. Is my opinion, me. Here is a scenario: You have 3 people infront of you. 1 innocent women on the left, 1 'terrorist' in the middle, and 1 innocent child on the right. You know that if you shoot you will kill all 3, but you want to kill the terrorist (for the record he is not doing anything bad at this time). Do you shoot? the real scenario is what do you do if that person has his finger on a missile launch button that will kill dozens try answering that one, simpleton! I would stop the Israeli terrorist from launching the missile i figured a complex argument would exceed your capacity. You are just another mindless drone that has yet to gow the capacity to think and reason. Then answer my complex argument and I will answer yours you were asked to choose between one terrorist with two innocents and the deaths of dozens or hundreds. but the argument exceeds your moral capacity.

I said I am willing to answer it.

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 4:48pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:32pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:30pm: longweekend58 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:27pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:22pm: longweekend58 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:21pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:03pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:57pm: i am sorry but i never has ever speak for the entire state of Israel. i have always said that peoples who deliberate target women and children and civilians is terrorist. In IDF we does not do this. But no i am not soldier now, i am student and i do not speak for all Israel. Is my opinion, me. Here is a scenario: You have 3 people infront of you. 1 innocent women on the left, 1 'terrorist' in the middle, and 1 innocent child on the right. You know that if you shoot you will kill all 3, but you want to kill the terrorist (for the record he is not doing anything bad at this time). Do you shoot? the real scenario is what do you do if that person has his finger on a missile launch button that will kill dozens try answering that one, simpleton! I would stop the Israeli terrorist from launching the missile i figured a complex argument would exceed your capacity. You are just another mindless drone that has yet to gow the capacity to think and reason. Then answer my complex argument and I will answer yours you were asked to choose between one terrorist with two innocents and the deaths of dozens or hundreds. but the argument exceeds your moral capacity. I said I am willing to answer it.

then answer it, wimp. show us your moral certitude.

how surprising.... the little idiot has run away to hide... a bit like the terrorists he supports.

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 4:59pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:48pm: longweekend58 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:32pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:30pm: longweekend58 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:27pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:22pm: longweekend58 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:21pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 4:03pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:57pm: i am sorry but i never has ever speak for the entire state of Israel. i have always said that peoples who deliberate target women and children and civilians is terrorist. In IDF we does not do this. But no i am not soldier now, i am student and i do not speak for all Israel. Is my opinion, me. Here is a scenario: You have 3 people infront of you. 1 innocent women on the left, 1 'terrorist' in the middle, and 1 innocent child on the right. You know that if you shoot you will kill all 3, but you want to kill the terrorist (for the record he is not doing anything bad at this time). Do you shoot? the real scenario is what do you do if that person has his finger on a missile launch button that will kill dozens try answering that one, simpleton! I would stop the Israeli terrorist from launching the missile i figured a complex argument would exceed your capacity. You are just another mindless drone that has yet to gow the capacity to think and reason. Then answer my complex argument and I will answer yours you were asked to choose between one terrorist with two innocents and the deaths of dozens or hundreds. but the argument exceeds your moral capacity. I said I am willing to answer it. then answer it, wimp. show us your moral certitude.

Why when you wont answer mine?

This is silly question,

You can sit in your house in Australia 1000's of km away and make judgment of decisions for life endanger times.
If you are young man in aus you are lucky and live in peace and easy life.

Me I has been 2 years be shoot at by palestinians in Hebron, be rocks throw to me, also be in Gaza in cast lead all real live not like sit home.

But you know since I study in Australia I can see how lucky is for you to have country with no problem and no aggressor. You are very lucky,, we do not have this,

We must fight to keep country and israel safe.

Always must we be wary,,

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 5:40pm:

This is silly question, You can sit in your house in Australia 1000's of km away and make judgment of decisions for life endanger times. If you are young man in aus you are lucky and live in peace and easy life. Me I has been 2 years be shoot at by palestinians in Hebron, be rocks throw to me, also be in Gaza in cast lead all real live not like sit home. But you know since I study in Australia I can see how lucky is for you to have country with no problem and no aggressor. You are very lucky,, we do not have this, We must fight to keep country and israel safe. Always must we be wary,,

We really need someone who has been sitting in a house in Gaza to give a complete account, eh?

I'm not sure how anyone can argue that Israel is not engaging in terrorist activities. Politicalpuppet has made a pertinent point. How can Avram claim Israel is not committing terrorists acts when their actions clearly fall within his own definition of terrorism. There is nothing simplistic or naive about politicalpuppet's position. It might appear simple compared to the sophistry coming from the other side.

Here is part of an account from the Italian politician Fernando Rossi, formerly a senator of the Italian republic, now a counselor for the governor of Ferrara. When this was written in 2010 he had visited Gaza twice.


Quote:

“Israel wanted to scare people by bombardments and to make them abandon Hamas. But they got the opposite – Hamas appeared to be the winner, and its supporters became even stronger. One could see pictures of crossed arms all around the place as a reconciliation sign of Fatah and Hamas.” “There were hedged ruins everywhere hiding unexploded phosphorus and cluster bombs. There was an outbreak of cancer among children and women. But the Child Oncology Hospital in Khan Yunis had been blown up. The hospital was located 300 kilometers away from the border – it’s been watched 24 hours a day. And they know that there was nothing dangerous inside the hospital. But they destroyed it! They bombed out the newest hospital in Khan Yunis! They killed all the doctors and nurses,” Rossi said. “I’ve been to a house, where orphans lived – they killed them all. There were 32 people living in this house. Israelis surrounded the houses, ordered everyone to get out and shot everyone down in the backyard. Then they finished off everyone left inside the house. Four children were wounded but survived covered by the dead bodies of their parents. And those children were smiling to us,” he recalled. They were 4, 5, 6 and 11 years old. “The doctors could not figure out what kind of substance the bombs contained – they burned through the flesh and burned a child from the inside. It was impossible to figure out what to do with such wounds,” Rossi said. Rossi reminded us of the fact that international conventions ban using the weapons without providing the information as to what’s their effect and how civilians can be protected.

Yet Avram feels aggrieved that as part of an occupying force he is shot at and young kids throw rocks at him. 

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 3:52pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:50pm: chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 2:43pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 2:28pm: Quote: People who would blow up women and children is not anything more than terrorist - no matter what they believes and says. There is no wriggling out of these one. He said it plain and simple Anyone who kills women and children which Israel does are terrorists You logic escapes all reality. Children have died accidently in wars since time began. He is 15yo!! thats why he comes up with these absurdities. what he calls a terrorist is simplistic in the extreme. This is about what avram said Also, do you believe the world is 10,000 years old dipshyt?

You will come out looking less of a goose if you spent more time understanding the meaning of what is being said, rather than hanging off every word and interpreting your own meanings to the words only.

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2012 at 4:03pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:57pm: i am sorry but i never has ever speak for the entire state of Israel. i have always said that peoples who deliberate target women and children and civilians is terrorist. In IDF we does not do this. But no i am not soldier now, i am student and i do not speak for all Israel. Is my opinion, me. Here is a scenario: You have 3 people infront of you. 1 innocent women on the left, 1 'terrorist' in the middle, and 1 innocent child on the right. You know that if you shoot you will kill all 3, but you want to kill the terrorist (for the record he is not doing anything bad at this time). Do you shoot?

That depends on what the terrorist has in his hands at the time, and his intentions eh.
If he is handing a Mars bar to the kid, and a Caramello to the woman well there isn't a problem.
If however, he is about to launch another missile, one of many across the wall into Sderot to terrorise other innocent women and children, well he gets a 7.62mm in the skull for his troubles eh.
One less dead maggot in the world.

MOTR wrote on Mar 28^th, 2012 at 5:39am:

I'm not sure how anyone can argue that Israel is not engaging in terrorist activities. Politicalpuppet has made a pertinent point. How can Avram claim Israel is not committing terrorists acts when their actions clearly fall within his own definition of terrorism. There is nothing simplistic or naive about politicalpuppet's position. It might appear simple compared to the sophistry coming from the other side. Here is part of an account from the Italian politician Fernando Rossi, formerly a senator of the Italian republic, now a counselor for the governor of Ferrara. When this was written in 2010 he had visited Gaza twice. Quote: “Israel wanted to scare people by bombardments and to make them abandon Hamas. But they got the opposite – Hamas appeared to be the winner, and its supporters became even stronger. One could see pictures of crossed arms all around the place as a reconciliation sign of Fatah and Hamas.” “There were hedged ruins everywhere hiding unexploded phosphorus and cluster bombs. There was an outbreak of cancer among children and women. But the Child Oncology Hospital in Khan Yunis had been blown up. The hospital was located 300 kilometers away from the border – it’s been watched 24 hours a day. And they know that there was nothing dangerous inside the hospital. But they destroyed it! They bombed out the newest hospital in Khan Yunis! They killed all the doctors and nurses,” Rossi said. “I’ve been to a house, where orphans lived – they killed them all. There were 32 people living in this house. Israelis surrounded the houses, ordered everyone to get out and shot everyone down in the backyard. Then they finished off everyone left inside the house. Four children were wounded but survived covered by the dead bodies of their parents. And those children were smiling to us,” he recalled. They were 4, 5, 6 and 11 years old. “The doctors could not figure out what kind of substance the bombs contained – they burned through the flesh and burned a child from the inside. It was impossible to figure out what to do with such wounds,” Rossi said. Rossi reminded us of the fact that international conventions ban using the weapons without providing the information as to what’s their effect and how civilians can be protected. Yet Avram feels aggrieved that as part of an occupying force he is shot at and young kids throw rocks at him.

The Italian writes crap.
Israeli's do not return fire to scare people.
They return fire to kill people.
Every mortar and missile crew that sent their weapons off in the direction of Sderot during Operation Cast Lead scarpered like the cowards they are leaving the women and children standing where they were gathered.
Why, because the mortar and missiles received return fire back to the point of origin.
As for hospitals, perhaps if the grounds weren't being used as firing points, or as weapons storage sites they wouldn't have been targeted.
Gazan residents were calling IDF headquarters in Israel during Operation Cast Lead to give them the precise location of terrorist missile and mortar crew for the IDF to eliminate.
Yes, Hamas is so popular.
During their last election, Fatah supporters were being kneecapped in the streets or thrown off the rooftop of buildings.
They rule their own via terror.
And they deserve what they get in return.

MOTR wrote on Mar 28^th, 2012 at 5:39am:

I'm not sure how anyone can argue that Israel is not engaging in terrorist activities. Politicalpuppet has made a pertinent point. How can Avram claim Israel is not committing terrorists acts when their actions clearly fall within his own definition of terrorism. There is nothing simplistic or naive about politicalpuppet's position. It might appear simple compared to the sophistry coming from the other side. Here is part of an account from the Italian politician Fernando Rossi, formerly a senator of the Italian republic, now a counselor for the governor of Ferrara. When this was written in 2010 he had visited Gaza twice. Quote: “Israel wanted to scare people by bombardments and to make them abandon Hamas. But they got the opposite – Hamas appeared to be the winner, and its supporters became even stronger. One could see pictures of crossed arms all around the place as a reconciliation sign of Fatah and Hamas.” “There were hedged ruins everywhere hiding unexploded phosphorus and cluster bombs. There was an outbreak of cancer among children and women. But the Child Oncology Hospital in Khan Yunis had been blown up. The hospital was located 300 kilometers away from the border – it’s been watched 24 hours a day. And they know that there was nothing dangerous inside the hospital. But they destroyed it! They bombed out the newest hospital in Khan Yunis! They killed all the doctors and nurses,” Rossi said. “I’ve been to a house, where orphans lived – they killed them all. There were 32 people living in this house. Israelis surrounded the houses, ordered everyone to get out and shot everyone down in the backyard. Then they finished off everyone left inside the house. Four children were wounded but survived covered by the dead bodies of their parents. And those children were smiling to us,” he recalled. They were 4, 5, 6 and 11 years old. “The doctors could not figure out what kind of substance the bombs contained – they burned through the flesh and burned a child from the inside. It was impossible to figure out what to do with such wounds,” Rossi said. Rossi reminded us of the fact that international conventions ban using the weapons without providing the information as to what’s their effect and how civilians can be protected. Yet Avram feels aggrieved that as part of an occupying force he is shot at and young kids throw rocks at him.

1) I was not part of a occupying force. I was stand on checkpoint INTO Israel from the Palestinian control territory when we has shots fired to us from inside Palestinian control.

2) These shots is come from apartment buildings and you can see children playing in bottom of the apartments -- so tell me where is the care for the children when they know this will cause IDF response to area.

3) We does not immediate respond because as i say we can see childrens in the area. Instead call on phone to Tel Aviv and say the situation.

4) Rocks come throw to our position on checkpoint from teens - so tell me how you would respond to this? You go and ask nice for them to stop? You know also can be trap to us to bring us into line of fire from the apartments?

Like i say before, you sit in a house 1,000 kms from this and in a country which has peace and you tell us how we must behave?

Maybe you come and spend 2 weeks with us on the national services and see how we have to be in these situations.

http://www.oneangryman.com/ken/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/military-spending.jpg

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 28^th, 2012 at 6:51am:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:52pm: longweekend58 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 3:50pm: chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 2:43pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 27th, 2012 at 2:28pm: Quote: People who would blow up women and children is not anything more than terrorist - no matter what they believes and says. There is no wriggling out of these one. He said it plain and simple Anyone who kills women and children which Israel does are terrorists You logic escapes all reality. Children have died accidently in wars since time began. He is 15yo!! thats why he comes up with these absurdities. what he calls a terrorist is simplistic in the extreme. This is about what avram said Also, do you believe the world is 10,000 years old dipshyt? You will come out looking less of a goose if you spent more time understanding the meaning of what is being said, rather than hanging off every word and interpreting your own meanings to the words only.

Quote:

People who would blow up women and children is not anything more than terrorist - no matter what they believes and says.

Sorry but that says exactly what it does and nothing you say or I say can change what it says

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Mar 28^th, 2012 at 5:09pm:

http://www.oneangryman.com/ken/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/military-spending.jpg

They are definitely being aggressive.

Avram, aren't most of the checkpoints within the West Bank. In 2010 there were 99 fixed check points within the West Bank.

MOTR wrote on Mar 28^th, 2012 at 6:40pm:

Avram, aren't most of the checkpoints within the West Bank. In 2010 there were 99 fixed check points within the West Bank.

Yes most checkpoints is in this area but remember there is Jewish settlements which must be protect.

We must be sure that non-Jews does not enter these areas to cause problems.

Checkpoints is there for every one security both Arab and Israeli.

You're talking about illegal Jewish settlements within the occupied territories.

MOTR wrote on Mar 28^th, 2012 at 6:47pm:

You're talking about illegal Jewish settlements within the occupied territories.

I am sorry, we do not see it like this.

You might not, but that is the way they are seen by the Palestinians.

“The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.”

- Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949

And by international law.

MOTR wrote on Mar 28^th, 2012 at 7:03pm:

You might not, but that is the way you are seen by the Palestinians.

Maybe they can think who gives them Gaza and areas of Samaria and Judea land for their territory control.
Yes there is settlements and we needs checkpoints.

And yes I too agree and has see my own eyes that behavior of some settlers is not good all times, please know we when I was iDF has give them warning to stop fire weapons to Palestinians.

This I know can sometimes be problem for Palestinians.

If they wishes peace they MUST accept the terms we give. We are fair people.

MOTR wrote on Mar 28^th, 2012 at 7:06pm:

“The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.” - Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 And by international law.

Do you remember who start the wars from why we has this land??

Are we going back to 1948 or 1967?

MOTR wrote on Mar 28^th, 2012 at 7:57pm:

Are we going back to 1948 or 1967?

The land was taken by Israel in self defense in 1967 in war fight by my father and uncles.

This is how we has come to this land with the Palestinians. Aggression to Israel.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 28^th, 2012 at 8:02pm:

MOTR wrote on Mar 28th, 2012 at 7:57pm: Are we going back to 1948 or 1967? The land was taken by Israel in self defense in 1967 in war fight by my father and uncles. This is how we has come to this land with the Palestinians. Aggression to Israel.

Avram

I always laugh when idiots say you should go back to your 1967 border.

Does that mean they want you to give Gaza back to Egypt?

Does that mean they want you to give the west bank back to Jordan?

Do they want you to give the land back to who you took it from or someone else?

Israel and Pakistan were created in similar circumstances yet the jew haters will never say Pakistan has no right to exist they only whinge about the jews.

Here are my difficulties with that statement.


“I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to The Sinai would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive war. He knew it and we knew it.” Yitzhak Rabin, Israel’s Chief of Staff in 1967, in Le Monde, 2/28/68

In June 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.’“ Menahem Begin

Yes. I sometimes find.
I am ok though -- I come to Australia for 2012 study and I speak with lots of aussies.

Is interesting to me. Some have say "you should not be in West Bank" but then when I explain that 1967 Arab countrys attack Israel -- then they lose the land from their attack but then has cry to UN that land should be give back,,

You know also some say to me here in australia "UN has resolutions to Israel".

I say "we do not care about UN." And they do not like but is true, we Israeli ignores the UN and talk to allys for prefer.

And too they tell me of the Gaza Operation. You know I was IDF in Operation Cast Lead, I see my own eyes what is happen. People here they read story or they watch a camera. I was there, I was in Gaza and I have be shoot at, I have shoot back I had called for IAF air strike support from Tel Aviv command. I has seen Palestinians call to us and point to us where is Hamas and Islamic Jihad hide in the buildings.
But some aussie tell me all Palestinians in Gaza support Hamas!? I know, I know my own eyes this is not true!!!
But they do not listen and instead they want think me and my comrades is child killer and so on I think.

It is frustrate because how can people say from this far place in the world?

Quote:

Moshe Dayan posthumously speaks out on the Golan Heights “Moshe Dayan, the celebrated commander who, as Defense Minister in 1967, gave the order to conquer the Golan...[said] many of the firefights with the Syrians were deliberately provoked by Israel, and the kibbutz residents who pressed the Government to take the Golan Heights did so less for security than for the farmland...[Dayan stated] ‘They didn’t even try to hide their greed for the land...We would send a tractor to plow some area where it wasn’t possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn’t shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance further, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot. And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that’s how it was...The Syrians, on the fourth day of the war, were not a threat to us.’” The New York Times, May 11, 1997

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 28^th, 2012 at 8:25pm:

Yes. I sometimes find. I am ok though -- I come to Australia for 2012 study and I speak with lots of aussies. Is interesting to me. Some have say "you should not be in West Bank" but then when I explain that 1967 Arab countrys attack Israel -- then they lose the land from their attack but then has cry to UN that land should be give back,, You know also some say to me here in australia "UN has resolutions to Israel". I say "we do not care about UN." And they do not like but is true, we Israeli ignores the UN and talk to allys for prefer. And too they tell me of the Gaza Operation. You know I was IDF in Operation Cast Lead, I see my own eyes what is happen. People here they read story or they watch a camera. I was there, I was in Gaza and I have be shoot at, I have shoot back I had called for IAF air strike support from Tel Aviv command. I has seen Palestinians call to us and point to us where is Hamas and Islamic Jihad hide in the buildings. But some aussie tell me all Palestinians in Gaza support Hamas!? I know, I know my own eyes this is not true!!! But they do not listen and instead they want think me and my comrades is child killer and so on I think. It is frustrate because how can people say from this far place in the world?

I read at the time of Operation Cast Lead of how the many residents of Gaza phoned IDF headquarters in Israel on mobile phones to give them the location of nearby Hamas missile and mortar crew.
These don't sound like people who supported Hamas.
Let's face it, a missile crew firing from the roof of your house above your head wouldn't be welcome, considering the residents would be well aware the IDF will return fire back to the point of origin.
Don't get frustrated Avram.
There's no point to it.
Your staying in a country far far away where 22 million people haven't spent 2 seconds walking in your shoes.

MOTR wrote on Mar 28^th, 2012 at 9:07pm:

Quote: Moshe Dayan posthumously speaks out on the Golan Heights “Moshe Dayan, the celebrated commander who, as Defense Minister in 1967, gave the order to conquer the Golan...[said] many of the firefights with the Syrians were deliberately provoked by Israel, and the kibbutz residents who pressed the Government to take the Golan Heights did so less for security than for the farmland...[Dayan stated] ‘They didn’t even try to hide their greed for the land...We would send a tractor to plow some area where it wasn’t possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn’t shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance further, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot. And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that’s how it was...The Syrians, on the fourth day of the war, were not a threat to us.’” The New York Times, May 11, 1997

How sad MOTR. :'(
Perhaps the Syrians should learn to make war better, instead of falling for an Israel ruse.

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 7:13am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 28th, 2012 at 8:25pm: Yes. I sometimes find. I am ok though -- I come to Australia for 2012 study and I speak with lots of aussies. Is interesting to me. Some have say "you should not be in West Bank" but then when I explain that 1967 Arab countrys attack Israel -- then they lose the land from their attack but then has cry to UN that land should be give back,, You know also some say to me here in australia "UN has resolutions to Israel". I say "we do not care about UN." And they do not like but is true, we Israeli ignores the UN and talk to allys for prefer. And too they tell me of the Gaza Operation. You know I was IDF in Operation Cast Lead, I see my own eyes what is happen. People here they read story or they watch a camera. I was there, I was in Gaza and I have be shoot at, I have shoot back I had called for IAF air strike support from Tel Aviv command. I has seen Palestinians call to us and point to us where is Hamas and Islamic Jihad hide in the buildings. But some aussie tell me all Palestinians in Gaza support Hamas!? I know, I know my own eyes this is not true!!! But they do not listen and instead they want think me and my comrades is child killer and so on I think. It is frustrate because how can people say from this far place in the world? I read at the time of Operation Cast Lead of how the many residents of Gaza phoned IDF headquarters in Israel on mobile phones to give them the location of nearby Hamas missile and mortar crew. These don't sound like people who supported Hamas. Let's face it, a missile crew firing from the roof of your house above your head wouldn't be welcome, considering the residents would be well aware the IDF will return fire back to the point of origin. Don't get frustrated Avram. There's no point to it. Your staying in a country far far away where 22 million people haven't spent 2 seconds walking in your shoes.

Thank you.
I think you have good understanding of situation in Israel and Gaza.  :)

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 28^th, 2012 at 8:14pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 28th, 2012 at 8:02pm: MOTR wrote on Mar 28th, 2012 at 7:57pm: Are we going back to 1948 or 1967? The land was taken by Israel in self defense in 1967 in war fight by my father and uncles. This is how we has come to this land with the Palestinians. Aggression to Israel. Avram I always laugh when idiots say you should go back to your 1967 border. Does that mean they want you to give Gaza back to Egypt? Does that mean they want you to give the west bank back to Jordan? Do they want you to give the land back to who you took it from or someone else? Israel and Pakistan were created in similar circumstances yet the jew haters will never say Pakistan has no right to exist they only whinge about the jews.

The difference here is that this happened in recent times,
Just after the holocaust.
Notice how certain people and nations are still paying for the holocaust?
Jews are still aloud to complain about the holocaust?
Why can’t the Palestinians?

Does it not seem a little weird to say that the holocaust is still relevant but not the genocide of Palestine?

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 12:14pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 28th, 2012 at 8:14pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 28th, 2012 at 8:02pm: MOTR wrote on Mar 28th, 2012 at 7:57pm: Are we going back to 1948 or 1967? The land was taken by Israel in self defense in 1967 in war fight by my father and uncles. This is how we has come to this land with the Palestinians. Aggression to Israel. Avram I always laugh when idiots say you should go back to your 1967 border. Does that mean they want you to give Gaza back to Egypt? Does that mean they want you to give the west bank back to Jordan? Do they want you to give the land back to who you took it from or someone else? Israel and Pakistan were created in similar circumstances yet the jew haters will never say Pakistan has no right to exist they only whinge about the jews. The difference here is that this happened in recent times, Just after the holocaust. Notice how certain people and nations are still paying for the holocaust? Jews are still aloud to complain about the holocaust? Why can’t the Palestinians? Does it not seem a little weird to say that the holocaust is still relevant but not the genocide of Palestine?

Why would the Palestinians complain about the holocaust?
There involvement in the holocaust wasn't as victims.
Although the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was a firm ally of the Nazis, and he had involvement in the establishment of a muslim SS division in Bosnia in 1942.
SS Heinrich Himmler loved his muslim soldiers, as they were the only ones who weren't afraid to die.
They actually thought life was better on the other side.
No doubt the Hanzar SS Division would have enjoyed sending a few Jews up the chimney eh.
You forget that Jordan was also formed in 1948, also happening in recent times.
And where is the genocide of the Palestinians except in Jordan, where in September 1970, the Jordanian army massacred up to 20,000 Palestinians over 4 days.
Tell me, where is this other genocide???
A Hamas census carried out in 2008 shows the population growing in Gaza.
Pictures on UTube of Gaza show plenty of overweight chunky Palestinians at the shopping malls stuffing their greedy faces.
Fatah in the West Bank are also yet to complain about a genocide in the West Bank.
Where are the bodies???
Soylent Green patties perhaps. ;D ;D ;D
Where are all the photo's of the 'genocide' that would have been sent to western press by left wing NGOs on the ground over there.
Your Palestinian 'genocide' supposedly carried out by the Israeli's is only in the minds of left wing muslim apologists and assorted useful idiots for Palestine.

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 12:14pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 28th, 2012 at 8:14pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 28th, 2012 at 8:02pm: MOTR wrote on Mar 28th, 2012 at 7:57pm: Are we going back to 1948 or 1967? The land was taken by Israel in self defense in 1967 in war fight by my father and uncles. This is how we has come to this land with the Palestinians. Aggression to Israel. Avram I always laugh when idiots say you should go back to your 1967 border. Does that mean they want you to give Gaza back to Egypt? Does that mean they want you to give the west bank back to Jordan? Do they want you to give the land back to who you took it from or someone else? Israel and Pakistan were created in similar circumstances yet the jew haters will never say Pakistan has no right to exist they only whinge about the jews. The difference here is that this happened in recent times, Just after the holocaust. Notice how certain people and nations are still paying for the holocaust? Jews are still aloud to complain about the holocaust? Why can’t the Palestinians? Does it not seem a little weird to say that the holocaust is still relevant but not the genocide of Palestine? Why would the Palestinians complain about the holocaust? There involvement in the holocaust wasn't as victims. Although the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was a firm ally of the Nazis, and he had involvement in the establishment of a muslim SS division in Bosnia in 1942. SS Heinrich Himmler loved his muslim soldiers, as they were the only ones who weren't afraid to die. They actually thought life was better on the other side. No doubt the Hanzar SS Division would have enjoyed sending a few Jews up the chimney eh. You forget that Jordan was also formed in 1948, also happening in recent times. And where is the genocide of the Palestinians except in Jordan, where in September 1970, the Jordanian army massacred up to 20,000 Palestinians over 4 days. Tell me, where is this other genocide??? A Hamas census carried out in 2008 shows the population growing in Gaza. Pictures on UTube of Gaza show plenty of overweight chunky Palestinians at the shopping malls stuffing their greedy faces. Fatah in the West Bank are also yet to complain about a genocide in the West Bank. Where are the bodies??? Soylent Green patties perhaps. ;D ;D ;D Where are all the photo's of the 'genocide' that would have been sent to western press by left wing NGOs on the ground over there. Your Palestinian 'genocide' supposedly carried out by the Israeli's is only in the minds of left wing muslim apologists and assorted useful idiots for Palestine.

I dont think you understand what I was saying.
Sorry but there was a genocide commited by zionsits against the people of Palestine. You are ignorant to deny that

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 1:21pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 1:06pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 12:14pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 28th, 2012 at 8:14pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 28th, 2012 at 8:02pm: MOTR wrote on Mar 28th, 2012 at 7:57pm: Are we going back to 1948 or 1967? The land was taken by Israel in self defense in 1967 in war fight by my father and uncles. This is how we has come to this land with the Palestinians. Aggression to Israel. Avram I always laugh when idiots say you should go back to your 1967 border. Does that mean they want you to give Gaza back to Egypt? Does that mean they want you to give the west bank back to Jordan? Do they want you to give the land back to who you took it from or someone else? Israel and Pakistan were created in similar circumstances yet the jew haters will never say Pakistan has no right to exist they only whinge about the jews. The difference here is that this happened in recent times, Just after the holocaust. Notice how certain people and nations are still paying for the holocaust? Jews are still aloud to complain about the holocaust? Why can’t the Palestinians? Does it not seem a little weird to say that the holocaust is still relevant but not the genocide of Palestine? Why would the Palestinians complain about the holocaust? There involvement in the holocaust wasn't as victims. Although the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was a firm ally of the Nazis, and he had involvement in the establishment of a muslim SS division in Bosnia in 1942. SS Heinrich Himmler loved his muslim soldiers, as they were the only ones who weren't afraid to die. They actually thought life was better on the other side. No doubt the Hanzar SS Division would have enjoyed sending a few Jews up the chimney eh. You forget that Jordan was also formed in 1948, also happening in recent times. And where is the genocide of the Palestinians except in Jordan, where in September 1970, the Jordanian army massacred up to 20,000 Palestinians over 4 days. Tell me, where is this other genocide??? A Hamas census carried out in 2008 shows the population growing in Gaza. Pictures on UTube of Gaza show plenty of overweight chunky Palestinians at the shopping malls stuffing their greedy faces. Fatah in the West Bank are also yet to complain about a genocide in the West Bank. Where are the bodies??? Soylent Green patties perhaps. ;D ;D ;D Where are all the photo's of the 'genocide' that would have been sent to western press by left wing NGOs on the ground over there. Your Palestinian 'genocide' supposedly carried out by the Israeli's is only in the minds of left wing muslim apologists and assorted useful idiots for Palestine. I dont think you understand what I was saying. Sorry but there was a genocide commited by zionsits against the people of Palestine. You are ignorant to deny that

No there was not.

You do not think that you would know more than me who comes from this place?

Quote:

No there was not. You do not think that you would know more than me who comes from this place?

So you deny that thousands of Palestinians were killed and forced from their land?
How then did Israel come to be?
Was it by magic or something?
Because people don’t just instantly disappear and leave their homes.

who say they disappear?

You know we has 1.5m Arabs in Israel will all right to vote yes?

Tell me -- what rights do i have as Jewish person in Arab world? Is the same?

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 1:24pm:

Quote: No there was not. You do not think that you would know more than me who comes from this place? So you deny that thousands of Palestinians were killed and forced from their land? How then did Israel come to be? Was it by magic or something? Because people don’t just instantly disappear and leave their homes.

They do when their Arab leaders told them to flee like rabbits on the radio broadcasts in the region at the time.
Those that fled left to escape the intense fighting.
You obviously forget that war came to Israel the very next day after it was formed in 1948 by the United Nations.
The Israeli peoples were one day old when war came to them.
And just like those other times, even in 1948 the Arab forces were very poor invaders when they tried to steal Israel away from the British Mandate of Palestine.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 1:40pm:

who say they disappear? You know we has 1.5m Arabs in Israel will all right to vote yes? Tell me -- what rights do i have as Jewish person in Arab world? Is the same?

A fraction of the rights an Arab citizen enjoys in Israel.
So many Arabs in the Knisset, even an Arab General in the IDF.

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 1:51pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 1:24pm: Quote: No there was not. You do not think that you would know more than me who comes from this place? So you deny that thousands of Palestinians were killed and forced from their land? How then did Israel come to be? Was it by magic or something? Because people don’t just instantly disappear and leave their homes. They do when their Arab leaders told them to flee like rabbits on the radio broadcasts in the region at the time. Those that fled left to escape the intense fighting. You obviously forget that war came to Israel the very next day after it was formed in 1948 by the United Nations. The Israeli peoples were one day old when war came to them. And just like those other times, even in 1948 the Arab forces were very poor invaders when they tried to steal Israel away from the British Mandate of Palestine.

When you kick people out of their land and start killing people who resist of course people are going to defend themselves.
War did not come to Israel, Israel started the war.

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 2:19pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 1:51pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 1:24pm: Quote: No there was not. You do not think that you would know more than me who comes from this place? So you deny that thousands of Palestinians were killed and forced from their land? How then did Israel come to be? Was it by magic or something? Because people don’t just instantly disappear and leave their homes. They do when their Arab leaders told them to flee like rabbits on the radio broadcasts in the region at the time. Those that fled left to escape the intense fighting. You obviously forget that war came to Israel the very next day after it was formed in 1948 by the United Nations. The Israeli peoples were one day old when war came to them. And just like those other times, even in 1948 the Arab forces were very poor invaders when they tried to steal Israel away from the British Mandate of Palestine. When you kick people out of their land and start killing people who resist of course people are going to defend themselves. War did not come to Israel, Israel started the war.

a young person in Australia who has never seen any of this things apart his television pictures in other side of the world.

Maybe you should spent the time with us in IDF for 1 week and see how situation is for real.

You would be frighten out of your body my friend if you spend just 1 day with what we has deal with every day.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 2:21pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 2:19pm: chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 1:51pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 1:24pm: Quote: No there was not. You do not think that you would know more than me who comes from this place? So you deny that thousands of Palestinians were killed and forced from their land? How then did Israel come to be? Was it by magic or something? Because people don’t just instantly disappear and leave their homes. They do when their Arab leaders told them to flee like rabbits on the radio broadcasts in the region at the time. Those that fled left to escape the intense fighting. You obviously forget that war came to Israel the very next day after it was formed in 1948 by the United Nations. The Israeli peoples were one day old when war came to them. And just like those other times, even in 1948 the Arab forces were very poor invaders when they tried to steal Israel away from the British Mandate of Palestine. When you kick people out of their land and start killing people who resist of course people are going to defend themselves. War did not come to Israel, Israel started the war. a young person in Australia who has never seen any of this things apart his television pictures in other side of the world. Maybe you should spent the time with us in IDF for 1 week and see how situation is for real. You would be frighten out of your body my friend if you spend just 1 day with what we has deal with every day.

If I only knew about it from my television I would probably be supporting your position, unfortunately for Israel we know have access to both sides of the story and more and more people are beginning to wake up.
The way things are going Israel won’t have support from much longer, war crimes and human right abuses always get recognised for what they are even if it is years after the fact.

Maybe you should use your empathy and imagine yourself in the shoes of a Palestinian. Perhaps an older man or women who were around in the 40's.

The frightening situation Israel finds itself in is its own fault, but it is a lot more frightening for the Palestine anyway so quit your whining.

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 2:19pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 1:51pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 1:24pm: Quote: No there was not. You do not think that you would know more than me who comes from this place? So you deny that thousands of Palestinians were killed and forced from their land? How then did Israel come to be? Was it by magic or something? Because people don’t just instantly disappear and leave their homes. They do when their Arab leaders told them to flee like rabbits on the radio broadcasts in the region at the time. Those that fled left to escape the intense fighting. You obviously forget that war came to Israel the very next day after it was formed in 1948 by the United Nations. The Israeli peoples were one day old when war came to them. And just like those other times, even in 1948 the Arab forces were very poor invaders when they tried to steal Israel away from the British Mandate of Palestine. When you kick people out of their land and start killing people who resist of course people are going to defend themselves. War did not come to Israel, Israel started the war.

Egypt, Jordan, Iraq & Syrian forces all came to Israel in 1948, the day after Israel was formed.
Not the other way around.
Israel was invaded, and the invader was kicked out minus a few thousand dead.
And the Arab civilians that ran, ran from the fighting that ensued when Israel was invaded.
And like in all wars that have ever occurred on the planet, innocent people are killed.
Do yourself a favour and read a history book eh.

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 2:43pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 2:19pm: chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 1:51pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 1:24pm: Quote: No there was not. You do not think that you would know more than me who comes from this place? So you deny that thousands of Palestinians were killed and forced from their land? How then did Israel come to be? Was it by magic or something? Because people don’t just instantly disappear and leave their homes. They do when their Arab leaders told them to flee like rabbits on the radio broadcasts in the region at the time. Those that fled left to escape the intense fighting. You obviously forget that war came to Israel the very next day after it was formed in 1948 by the United Nations. The Israeli peoples were one day old when war came to them. And just like those other times, even in 1948 the Arab forces were very poor invaders when they tried to steal Israel away from the British Mandate of Palestine. When you kick people out of their land and start killing people who resist of course people are going to defend themselves. War did not come to Israel, Israel started the war. Egypt, Jordan, Iraq & Syrian forces all came to Israel in 1948, the day after Israel was formed. Not the other way around. Israel was invaded, and the invader was kicked out minus a few thousand dead. And the Arab civilians that ran, ran from the fighting that ensued when Israel was invaded. And like in all wars that have ever occurred on the planet, innocent people are killed. Do yourself a favour and read a history book eh.

So its ok for Israel to invaid but not for Arabs to invaid Israel for invading Palestine?

You has no idea what the situation in reality is like there based on your comments regard the Operation Cast lead.

That comments obviously come from bias reportage like Al jazeera

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 1:51pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 1:24pm: Quote: No there was not. You do not think that you would know more than me who comes from this place? So you deny that thousands of Palestinians were killed and forced from their land? How then did Israel come to be? Was it by magic or something? Because people don’t just instantly disappear and leave their homes. They do when their Arab leaders told them to flee like rabbits on the radio broadcasts in the region at the time.

Probably because Jewish militants were going around massacring villagers in Palestine.

The Jewish Stern Gang terrorists destroyed the village of Deir Yasin, and killed women and children.

Deir Yasin was an Arab village that had been friendly with Jews. Imagine what the Jewish terrorists would do to their enemies.

http://www.deiryassin.org/

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 1:40pm:

who say they disappear?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PaG-oRPFduY/TiweYiztuXI/AAAAAAAAAAM/1NAXPONTmdc/s1600/map2.jpg

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 4:30pm:

You has no idea what the situation in reality is like there based on your comments regard the Operation Cast lead. That comments obviously come from bias reportage like Al jazeera

Yeah I do,
you have clear bias

so you sit in country 1000km's away and i serve as army for 2 years and see my own eyes and experiences,,

And you know more than i?

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 6:01pm:

so you sit in country 1000km's away and i serve as army for 2 years and see my own eyes and experiences,, And you know more than i?

Yes, because I have been able to look unbiasedly at both sides of the story.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 6:01pm:

so you sit in country 1000km's away and i serve as army for 2 years and see my own eyes and experiences,, And you know more than i?

There was TV series called Kung Fu:
Master Po is blind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_Fu_(TV_series)


Quote:

Master Po: Close your eyes. What do you hear? Young Caine: I hear the water, I hear the birds. Po: Do you hear your own heartbeat? Caine: No. Po: Do you hear the grasshopper which is at your feet? Caine Looks down & sure enough there is a grasshopper by his foot. Caine: Old man, how is it that you hear these things? Po: Young man, how is it that you do not?

Avram,
You do not see the real picture.

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 6:03pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 6:01pm: so you sit in country 1000km's away and i serve as army for 2 years and see my own eyes and experiences,, And you know more than i? Yes, because I have been able to look unbiasedly at both sides of the story.

How many Palestinians has you speak to yourself?

I think i has speak with maybe 1,000+ if you think how many is through checkpoints and who we has speak in Hebron and Gaza.

How many Orthodox Jews you has speak to?

How many settlers in West Bank?

How many Israelis in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv?

But you watches television pictures given to you....

Please.

Bobby. wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 6:11pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 6:01pm: so you sit in country 1000km's away and i serve as army for 2 years and see my own eyes and experiences,, And you know more than i? There was TV series called Kung Fu: Master Po is blind. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_Fu_(TV_series) Quote: Master Po: Close your eyes. What do you hear? Young Caine: I hear the water, I hear the birds. Po: Do you hear your own heartbeat? Caine: No. Po: Do you hear the grasshopper which is at your feet? Caine Looks down & sure enough there is a grasshopper by his foot. Caine: Old man, how is it that you hear these things? Po: Young man, how is it that you do not? Avram, You do not see the real picture.

Bobby i am in the picture.
i has been myself into Gaza in Cast Lead. i has been in Hebron.
I has been in the Golan.

I has seen all my own eyes.

Avram,

Quote:

Bobby i am in the picture. i has been myself into Gaza in Cast Lead. i has been in Hebron. I has been in the Golan. I has seen all my own eyes.

Avram,
You don't understand what I'm saying.
Maybe you're just too young?

Bobby. wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 6:25pm:

Avram, Quote: Bobby i am in the picture. i has been myself into Gaza in Cast Lead. i has been in Hebron. I has been in the Golan. I has seen all my own eyes. Avram, You don't understand what I'm saying. Maybe you're just too young?

Bobby i am not too young and not too old.
I know Palestinians, i has lived with them all my life and i has been in army when they shoot and throw the rocks.
I know them.

Bobby i also think you do not know Israel and you do not know the Arabs well.

You could not think your suggestion works if this is so.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 6:34pm:

Bobby i also think you do not know Israel and you do not know the Arabs well. You could not think your suggestion works if this is so.

Tell me why Caine didn't know there was a grasshopper at his foot yet a blind man did?

And why do some peoples not know that GOD gave this land to the children of Abraham and Isaac.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 6:22pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 6:03pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 6:01pm: so you sit in country 1000km's away and i serve as army for 2 years and see my own eyes and experiences,, And you know more than i? Yes, because I have been able to look unbiasedly at both sides of the story. How many Palestinians has you speak to yourself? I think i has speak with maybe 1,000+ if you think how many is through checkpoints and who we has speak in Hebron and Gaza. How many Orthodox Jews you has speak to? How many settlers in West Bank? How many Israelis in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv? But you watches television pictures given to you.... Please.

About as many as I have Israelis, but I have heard from thousands of them as with Israelis.
The problem is you have bias.
I have come to my conclusions based on the facts not my upbringing.

Once again no television

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 6:44pm:

And why do some peoples not know that GOD gave this land to the children of Abraham and Isaac.

Well no one knows this

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 6:46pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 6:22pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 6:03pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 6:01pm: so you sit in country 1000km's away and i serve as army for 2 years and see my own eyes and experiences,, And you know more than i? Yes, because I have been able to look unbiasedly at both sides of the story. How many Palestinians has you speak to yourself? I think i has speak with maybe 1,000+ if you think how many is through checkpoints and who we has speak in Hebron and Gaza. How many Orthodox Jews you has speak to? How many settlers in West Bank? How many Israelis in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv? But you watches television pictures given to you.... Please. About as many as I have Israelis, but I have heard from thousands of them as with Israelis. The problem is you have bias. I have come to my conclusions based on the facts not my upbringing. Once again no television

I come to my conclusions from experiences,, personal experiences and seeing with my own eyes.
I has been in Gaza, West Bank myself.

I has been shoot at. I has need to make decisions on if to fire when can see women and children.
I has been there also to call for Israel Air Force support in Gaza. What do you know? How can you even know what is happening because with me is no news crews,

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 6:50pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 6:46pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 6:22pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 6:03pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 6:01pm: so you sit in country 1000km's away and i serve as army for 2 years and see my own eyes and experiences,, And you know more than i? Yes, because I have been able to look unbiasedly at both sides of the story. How many Palestinians has you speak to yourself? I think i has speak with maybe 1,000+ if you think how many is through checkpoints and who we has speak in Hebron and Gaza. How many Orthodox Jews you has speak to? How many settlers in West Bank? How many Israelis in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv? But you watches television pictures given to you.... Please. About as many as I have Israelis, but I have heard from thousands of them as with Israelis. The problem is you have bias. I have come to my conclusions based on the facts not my upbringing. Once again no television I come to my conclusions from experiences,, personal experiences and seeing with my own eyes. I has been in Gaza, West Bank myself. I has been shoot at. I has need to make decisions on if to fire when can see women and children. I has been there also to call for Israel Air Force support in Gaza. What do you know? How can you even know what is happening because with me is no news crews,

Bias
You are thinking what not why

Give back land and same people who provockes Israel fires in rockets for thank you?

No thank you -- I know and can see how they show no gratitudes.

Avram,

Quote:

I come to my conclusions from experiences,, personal experiences and seeing with my own eyes. I has been in Gaza, West Bank myself. I has been shoot at. I has need to make decisions on if to fire when can see women and children. I has been there also to call for Israel Air Force support in Gaza. What do you know? How can you even know what is happening because with me is no news crews,

I have spent hours typing  trying to explain what's wrong
in the Middle East - & how to solve it -
all in vain.
Now - you must come up with the solution by me asking questions.
I have to make you think.
It's called the Socratic method.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 6:55pm:

Give back land and same people who provockes Israel fires in rockets for thank you? No thank you -- I know and can see how they show no gratitudes.

They cannot be the provocateurs as they didn’t start it.

Bobby I know what peace is needed and what must be do. I voted for Barak and not Netanyahu, so I do want peace.

This must be accepted -

1) Israel statehood accepted by Palestinians
2) Jerusalem capital and all under control of Israel
3) Current border accepted
4) No more settlements in Judea but ones finish construction must say
5) Israeli checkpoints stay to keep peace
6) Gaza and West Bank can be allow Palestinians if they behaves and no more rockets.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 7:02pm:

Bobby I know what peace is needed and what must be do. I voted for Barak and not Netanyahu, so I do want peace. This must be accepted - 1) Israel statehood accepted by Palestinians 2) Jerusalem capital and all under control of Israel 3) Current border accepted 4) No more settlements in Judea but ones finish construction must say 5) Israeli checkpoints stay to keep peace 6) Gaza and West Bank can be allow Palestinians if they behaves and no more rockets.

HAHAHAHAHA Barak and peace are two words that dont go together.

You cant have peace by forcing your wants on others.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 7:02pm:

Bobby I know what peace is needed and what must be do. I voted for Barak and not Netanyahu, so I do want peace. This must be accepted - 1) Israel statehood accepted by Palestinians 2) Jerusalem capital and all under control of Israel 3) Current border accepted 4) No more settlements in Judea but ones finish construction must say 5) Israeli checkpoints stay to keep peace 6) Gaza and West Bank can be allow Palestinians if they behaves and no more rockets.

So you say what you will accept but you
don't include any reference to what the Palestinians want.

Wow - can you now see why there is no peace?

Bobby. wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 7:11pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 7:02pm: Bobby I know what peace is needed and what must be do. I voted for Barak and not Netanyahu, so I do want peace. This must be accepted - 1) Israel statehood accepted by Palestinians 2) Jerusalem capital and all under control of Israel 3) Current border accepted 4) No more settlements in Judea but ones finish construction must say 5) Israeli checkpoints stay to keep peace 6) Gaza and West Bank can be allow Palestinians if they behaves and no more rockets. So you say what you will accept but you don't include any reference to what the Palestinians want. Wow - can you now see why there is no peace?

Who do you think has given the Palestinians the West Bank and Gaza?

The man in the moon?

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 7:33pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 7:11pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 7:02pm: Bobby I know what peace is needed and what must be do. I voted for Barak and not Netanyahu, so I do want peace. This must be accepted - 1) Israel statehood accepted by Palestinians 2) Jerusalem capital and all under control of Israel 3) Current border accepted 4) No more settlements in Judea but ones finish construction must say 5) Israeli checkpoints stay to keep peace 6) Gaza and West Bank can be allow Palestinians if they behaves and no more rockets. So you say what you will accept but you don't include any reference to what the Palestinians want. Wow - can you now see why there is no peace? Who do you think has given the Palestinians the West Bank and Gaza? The man in the moon?

Israel didnt give it to them, they were forced to let them keep it

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 7:35pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 7:33pm: Bobby. wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 7:11pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 7:02pm: Bobby I know what peace is needed and what must be do. I voted for Barak and not Netanyahu, so I do want peace. This must be accepted - 1) Israel statehood accepted by Palestinians 2) Jerusalem capital and all under control of Israel 3) Current border accepted 4) No more settlements in Judea but ones finish construction must say 5) Israeli checkpoints stay to keep peace 6) Gaza and West Bank can be allow Palestinians if they behaves and no more rockets. So you say what you will accept but you don't include any reference to what the Palestinians want. Wow - can you now see why there is no peace? Who do you think has given the Palestinians the West Bank and Gaza? The man in the moon? Israel didnt give it to them, they were forced to let them keep it

Who has forced us to do this?
We are strongest military in region, we has more power than all. We has no fear of Palestinians.
If we want Gaza we can take when we want.

No we gives back in good spirit.

Avram - you're a mixed up boy.

Bobby. wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 7:42pm:

Avram - you're a mixed up boy.

A sure sign that you've been had.


Who exactly forced Israel to give Gaza back to the Pallos?

Giving it back implies that Palestinians in Gaza have some kind of autonomy. They don't really, do they?

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 9:03pm:

Giving it back implies that Palestinians in Gaza have some kind of autonomy. They don't really, do they?

They do. They have the freedom to build roads, schools, infrastructure, civil society, organise road maintenance and garbage collection. God knows, they get loads of money from Europe for all that.

What they do not have the 'autonomy' for is lobbing explosives into Israel. Ain't that awfully oppressive of the Jews?? Tut tut. What's the point of this much-touted Western freedom and democracy and autonomy if you can't fire at the Zionist entity, eh? Might as well not bother.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 9:03pm:

Giving it back implies that Palestinians in Gaza have some kind of autonomy. They don't really, do they?

This says more about the Israelis then it does the Palestinians.
Its like blaming the aborigines for us creating the stolen generation
But, Palestine does have autonomy just the US, UK, Israel and Australia I think wont let them be recognised

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 9:19pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 9:03pm: Giving it back implies that Palestinians in Gaza have some kind of autonomy. They don't really, do they? This says more about the Israelis then it does the Palestinians. Its like blaming the aborigines for us creating the stolen generation But, Palestine does have autonomy just the US, UK, Israel and Australia I think wont let them be recognised

There is no stolen generation. Created or otherwise.

Soren wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 9:20pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 9:19pm: Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 9:03pm: Giving it back implies that Palestinians in Gaza have some kind of autonomy. They don't really, do they? This says more about the Israelis then it does the Palestinians. Its like blaming the aborigines for us creating the stolen generation But, Palestine does have autonomy just the US, UK, Israel and Australia I think wont let them be recognised There is no stolen generation. Created or otherwise.

Raped generation fits it better

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 9:03pm:

Giving it back implies that Palestinians in Gaza have some kind of autonomy. They don't really, do they?

Yes they do.
The last time we Israeli was in Gaza was when I was in Cast Lead.
It is Palestinian territory now.

You don't need to control something from within, Avram.

falah wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 5:02pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 1:40pm: who say they disappear? http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PaG-oRPFduY/TiweYiztuXI/AAAAAAAAAAM/1NAXPONTmdc/s1600/map2.jpg

Avram, can't you understand that many outsiders are concerned about the concentration of the Palestinians into smaller and smaller areas of land. We can see Israel moving further and further away from a two state solution. I don't believe you will be happy until Israel controls the whole of Judea and Samaria.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 9:03pm:

Giving it back implies that Palestinians in Gaza have some kind of autonomy. They don't really, do they?

Of course they do.
Hamas is free to throw opposition party members off rooftops, kneecap the occasional opposition member and hold their populace under the jackboot and suppress any form of opposition.
Free as birds they are.

They just don't have control over the weapons they try to smuggle in, and they don't have control over the funding of Gaza.

The Palestinian Authority does (Fatah) in the West Bank, and last I heard the Palestinian Authority was withholding funding for their own political reasons.

They have control over the state TV and radio, which daily tells the people that Jews are pigs, the holocaust was a good thing, the children are taught to hate Jews, and the children are shown maps of the region with the word 'Palestine' plastered over the top where the word Israel is on every other map on the planet.

They also have autonomy over their decision to shoot rockets into Sderot, or launch an anti tank missile at canary yellow school buses driving outside the wall killing and maiming the kids inside.

Bobby. wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 6:41pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 6:34pm: Bobby i also think you do not know Israel and you do not know the Arabs well. You could not think your suggestion works if this is so. Tell me why Caine didn't know there was a grasshopper at his foot yet a blind man did?

It was in the script Bobby.
It was a TV show, it's not real dude. :)

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 2:48pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 2:43pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 2:19pm: chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 1:51pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 1:24pm: Quote: No there was not. You do not think that you would know more than me who comes from this place? So you deny that thousands of Palestinians were killed and forced from their land? How then did Israel come to be? Was it by magic or something? Because people don’t just instantly disappear and leave their homes. They do when their Arab leaders told them to flee like rabbits on the radio broadcasts in the region at the time. Those that fled left to escape the intense fighting. You obviously forget that war came to Israel the very next day after it was formed in 1948 by the United Nations. The Israeli peoples were one day old when war came to them. And just like those other times, even in 1948 the Arab forces were very poor invaders when they tried to steal Israel away from the British Mandate of Palestine. When you kick people out of their land and start killing people who resist of course people are going to defend themselves. War did not come to Israel, Israel started the war. Egypt, Jordan, Iraq & Syrian forces all came to Israel in 1948, the day after Israel was formed. Not the other way around. Israel was invaded, and the invader was kicked out minus a few thousand dead. And the Arab civilians that ran, ran from the fighting that ensued when Israel was invaded. And like in all wars that have ever occurred on the planet, innocent people are killed. Do yourself a favour and read a history book eh. [quote]So its ok for Israel to invaid but not for Arabs to invaid Israel for invading Palestine?

Once again, Israel was formed by the United Nations on the land which belonged to the British Mandate of Palestine.
One part was land allocated as the Jewish National Homeland, the other was allocated to the Muslims which is where Jordan is which was formerly Trans Jordan.
And the Arab armies gave their unqualified opinion of this arrangement made by the UN, by invading a one day old Israel.
And they were trounced.
Israel didn't 'invade' anyone, Israel was formed from land that was administered by Great Britain.
And it was the tanks and troops from Trans Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Egypt which streamed across the border into a one day old Israel, not the other way round.

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 8:03am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 6:41pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 6:34pm: Bobby i also think you do not know Israel and you do not know the Arabs well. You could not think your suggestion works if this is so. Tell me why Caine didn't know there was a grasshopper at his foot yet a blind man did? It was in the script Bobby. It was a TV show, it's not real dude. :)

It seems real to me as it's a great analogy to why
Avram can't understand how other's see the Middle East.

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 8:14am:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 2:48pm: chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 2:43pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 2:19pm: chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 1:51pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 1:24pm: Quote: No there was not. You do not think that you would know more than me who comes from this place? So you deny that thousands of Palestinians were killed and forced from their land? How then did Israel come to be? Was it by magic or something? Because people don’t just instantly disappear and leave their homes. They do when their Arab leaders told them to flee like rabbits on the radio broadcasts in the region at the time. Those that fled left to escape the intense fighting. You obviously forget that war came to Israel the very next day after it was formed in 1948 by the United Nations. The Israeli peoples were one day old when war came to them. And just like those other times, even in 1948 the Arab forces were very poor invaders when they tried to steal Israel away from the British Mandate of Palestine. When you kick people out of their land and start killing people who resist of course people are going to defend themselves. War did not come to Israel, Israel started the war. Egypt, Jordan, Iraq & Syrian forces all came to Israel in 1948, the day after Israel was formed. Not the other way around. Israel was invaded, and the invader was kicked out minus a few thousand dead. And the Arab civilians that ran, ran from the fighting that ensued when Israel was invaded. And like in all wars that have ever occurred on the planet, innocent people are killed. Do yourself a favour and read a history book eh. [quote]So its ok for Israel to invaid but not for Arabs to invaid Israel for invading Palestine? Once again, Israel was formed by the United Nations on the land which belonged to the British Mandate of Palestine. One part was land allocated as the Jewish National Homeland, the other was allocated to the Muslims which is where Jordan is which was formerly Trans Jordan. And the Arab armies gave their unqualified opinion of this arrangement made by the UN, by invading a one day old Israel. And they were trounced. Israel didn't 'invade' anyone, Israel was formed from land that was administered by Great Britain. And it was the tanks and troops from Trans Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Egypt which streamed across the border into a one day old Israel, not the other way round.

So the UN used a magic spell to make the inhabitants disappear?

This argument has been going on for ages, please watch this video to understand where I am coming from
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM2S0L6xW5c&feature=related

Israel is proof that WW2 never ended.

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 8:37am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 8:14am: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 2:48pm: chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 2:43pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 2:19pm: chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 1:51pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 1:24pm: Quote: No there was not. You do not think that you would know more than me who comes from this place? So you deny that thousands of Palestinians were killed and forced from their land? How then did Israel come to be? Was it by magic or something? Because people don’t just instantly disappear and leave their homes. They do when their Arab leaders told them to flee like rabbits on the radio broadcasts in the region at the time. Those that fled left to escape the intense fighting. You obviously forget that war came to Israel the very next day after it was formed in 1948 by the United Nations. The Israeli peoples were one day old when war came to them. And just like those other times, even in 1948 the Arab forces were very poor invaders when they tried to steal Israel away from the British Mandate of Palestine. When you kick people out of their land and start killing people who resist of course people are going to defend themselves. War did not come to Israel, Israel started the war. Egypt, Jordan, Iraq & Syrian forces all came to Israel in 1948, the day after Israel was formed. Not the other way around. Israel was invaded, and the invader was kicked out minus a few thousand dead. And the Arab civilians that ran, ran from the fighting that ensued when Israel was invaded. And like in all wars that have ever occurred on the planet, innocent people are killed. Do yourself a favour and read a history book eh. [quote]So its ok for Israel to invaid but not for Arabs to invaid Israel for invading Palestine? Once again, Israel was formed by the United Nations on the land which belonged to the British Mandate of Palestine. One part was land allocated as the Jewish National Homeland, the other was allocated to the Muslims which is where Jordan is which was formerly Trans Jordan. And the Arab armies gave their unqualified opinion of this arrangement made by the UN, by invading a one day old Israel. And they were trounced. Israel didn't 'invade' anyone, Israel was formed from land that was administered by Great Britain. And it was the tanks and troops from Trans Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Egypt which streamed across the border into a one day old Israel, not the other way round. So the UN used a magic spell to make the inhabitants disappear? This argument has been going on for ages, please watch this video to understand where I am coming from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM2S0L6xW5c&feature=related

No, the inhabitants didn't disappear.
The Jordanians there were no longer Jordanian.
The Egyptians there were no longer Egyptian.
The Syrians there were no longer Syrian.
Those in the British Protectorate were no longer members of the British Protectorate.
In 1948, those within the UN designated land became Israeli.

Bobby. wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 8:45am:

Israel is proof that WW2 never ended.

Ain't that the truth.

Quote:

No, the inhabitants didn't disappear. The Jordanians there were no longer Jordanian. The Egyptians there were no longer Egyptian. The Syrians there were no longer Syrian. Those in the British Protectorate were no longer members of the British Protectorate. In 1948, those within the UN designated land became Israeli.

So by their label changing they somehow disappeared?

Soren wrote on Mar 29^th, 2012 at 9:18pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 9:03pm: Giving it back implies that Palestinians in Gaza have some kind of autonomy. They don't really, do they? They do. They have the freedom to build roads, schools, infrastructure, civil society, organise road maintenance and garbage collection. God knows, they get loads of money from Europe for all that.

What do you think the blockade was? Have you seen the list of goods that were prohibited under it? Cement, for one...ridiculous things designed to keep Gazans in perpetual suffering. This conflict is about psychological warfare as much as anything else.

Why do you think solidarity NGOs and some brave individuals took such risks to break it?

Israel has complete power over the citizens of Gaza.

There is no genuine autonomy.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 10:02am:

Soren wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 9:18pm: Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 9:03pm: Giving it back implies that Palestinians in Gaza have some kind of autonomy. They don't really, do they? They do. They have the freedom to build roads, schools, infrastructure, civil society, organise road maintenance and garbage collection. God knows, they get loads of money from Europe for all that. What do you think the blockade was? Have you seen the list of goods that were prohibited under it? Cement, for one...ridiculous things designed to keep Gazans in perpetual suffering. This conflict is about psychological warfare as much as anything else. Why do you think solidarity NGOs and some brave individuals took such risks to break it? Israel has complete power over the citizens of Gaza. There is no genuine autonomy.

What is the difference between Gaza & the Warsaw ghetto?

Not much, Bobby.

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 8:37am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 8:14am: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 2:48pm: chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 2:43pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 2:19pm: chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 1:51pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 1:24pm: Quote: No there was not. You do not think that you would know more than me who comes from this place? So you deny that thousands of Palestinians were killed and forced from their land? How then did Israel come to be? Was it by magic or something? Because people don’t just instantly disappear and leave their homes. They do when their Arab leaders told them to flee like rabbits on the radio broadcasts in the region at the time. Those that fled left to escape the intense fighting. You obviously forget that war came to Israel the very next day after it was formed in 1948 by the United Nations. The Israeli peoples were one day old when war came to them. And just like those other times, even in 1948 the Arab forces were very poor invaders when they tried to steal Israel away from the British Mandate of Palestine. When you kick people out of their land and start killing people who resist of course people are going to defend themselves. War did not come to Israel, Israel started the war. Egypt, Jordan, Iraq & Syrian forces all came to Israel in 1948, the day after Israel was formed. Not the other way around. Israel was invaded, and the invader was kicked out minus a few thousand dead. And the Arab civilians that ran, ran from the fighting that ensued when Israel was invaded. And like in all wars that have ever occurred on the planet, innocent people are killed. Do yourself a favour and read a history book eh. [quote]So its ok for Israel to invaid but not for Arabs to invaid Israel for invading Palestine? Once again, Israel was formed by the United Nations on the land which belonged to the British Mandate of Palestine. One part was land allocated as the Jewish National Homeland, the other was allocated to the Muslims which is where Jordan is which was formerly Trans Jordan. And the Arab armies gave their unqualified opinion of this arrangement made by the UN, by invading a one day old Israel. And they were trounced. Israel didn't 'invade' anyone, Israel was formed from land that was administered by Great Britain. And it was the tanks and troops from Trans Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Egypt which streamed across the border into a one day old Israel, not the other way round. So the UN used a magic spell to make the inhabitants disappear? This argument has been going on for ages, please watch this video to understand where I am coming from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM2S0L6xW5c&feature=related

Good video.
However, the past remains the past, and the Jews will no longer live under the rule of the caliphates.
The problem began way back when with the UN promising the region of Palestine as the Jewish Homeland, and whether it was right or wrong to do so is irrelevant.
Foreign armies invaded the day after Israel's formation, and the Jews have been on a war footing ever since.
Unfortunately, we don't have a time machine and we can't go back.
The genie is out of the bottle, and it won't ever go back in.
The Jews have had their national homeland recognised by the United Nations for over 60+ years, fought and won four wars to the knife, and is now the most vibrant economy in the Middle East along with being the sole democracy there worth a cracker.
There will be no going back.
Israel will not negotiate whilst the missiles are still being fired off into Israel as no country would negotiate under those circumstances.
The ceasefire that was signed 2 months ago was broken the following day by Hamas as they have broken every single cease fire they ever signed.
It is always the Israeli's that have to bend and give, and I suspect they are sick and tired of doing that.
Appeasement does have such a poor record in history.
The only realistic option left in 2012 is for Jordan to up their current Palestinian population from it's current 60%.
The Jews will never give up their claim to Palestine.
They believe it was promised to them from God, and whether we choose to believe that is irrelevant.
They believe it.
And three wars were unsuccessfully fought against the Romans by Jewish armies in Judea fighting for independence from Rome in the first and second century AD, and their blood is still in the sand today.
King David was the King of Israel thousands of years ago, and these peoples centuries old link with this land cannot be denied.
They have the strongest, most experienced and battle tested army in the entire middle east, and nearly every citizen of an age serves in the military as did their father and mother, and their father and mother before them did.
They have built cities out of the sand where nothing stood before , they have built industries from the ground up which export goods around the world.
In fact, your PC probably has Israeli parts in it, along with many medications available in our chemists are made there.
And they are not leaving.
And if the Arab League want to go for round five, the IDF stands ready.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 10:06am:

Not much, Bobby.

That's the point isn't it?
The Jews have done to others what was done to them.
Gaza is Warsaw.

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 9:59am:

Quote: No, the inhabitants didn't disappear. The Jordanians there were no longer Jordanian. The Egyptians there were no longer Egyptian. The Syrians there were no longer Syrian. Those in the British Protectorate were no longer members of the British Protectorate. In 1948, those within the UN designated land became Israeli. So by their label changing they somehow disappeared?

No, I've answered that.
Those 1.5 million Arabs who live and work in Israel today enjoy the highest standard of living in the Middle East.
And they are free to leave if they so choose like in every other democracy.
And they choose to be Israeli.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 10:02am:

Soren wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 9:18pm: Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 9:03pm: Giving it back implies that Palestinians in Gaza have some kind of autonomy. They don't really, do they? They do. They have the freedom to build roads, schools, infrastructure, civil society, organise road maintenance and garbage collection. God knows, they get loads of money from Europe for all that. What do you think the blockade was? Have you seen the list of goods that were prohibited under it? Cement, for one...ridiculous things designed to keep Gazans in perpetual suffering. This conflict is about psychological warfare as much as anything else. Why do you think solidarity NGOs and some brave individuals took such risks to break it? Israel has complete power over the citizens of Gaza. There is no genuine autonomy.

In Australia Annie, we don't use cement to build tunnels to smuggle terrorist and weapons into someone else's land with the objective of spreading terror, or to kidnap and murder people.
In Gaza, this is exactly what muslim extremists do.
And a search on U-Tube Annie will show how these people are suffering in their new shopping malls and 5 star restaurants which have opened up.
And a look at the census conducted by Hamas in 2006 or 2008 shows the population is growing, not shrinking.
One has to ask, where are all the photos of suffering Gazan residents taken by solidarity NGO's and brave individuals.
Why aren't these photo's appearing on El Jazeera?
Why?
Israel does not control the budget for Gaza, the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank does.
And they are not willing to give Hamas kooks control over the funding.

Did the Nazis allow cement into Warsaw?

Bobby. wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 10:03am:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 10:02am: Soren wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 9:18pm: Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 9:03pm: Giving it back implies that Palestinians in Gaza have some kind of autonomy. They don't really, do they? They do. They have the freedom to build roads, schools, infrastructure, civil society, organise road maintenance and garbage collection. God knows, they get loads of money from Europe for all that. What do you think the blockade was? Have you seen the list of goods that were prohibited under it? Cement, for one...ridiculous things designed to keep Gazans in perpetual suffering. This conflict is about psychological warfare as much as anything else. Why do you think solidarity NGOs and some brave individuals took such risks to break it? Israel has complete power over the citizens of Gaza. There is no genuine autonomy. What is the difference between Gaza & the Warsaw ghetto?

1. The residents in Gaza aren't being starving to death.
2. Gaza City is not being carpet bombed.
3. Gaza residents are not being rounded up and sent to concentration camps.
4. The Warsaw Ghetto did not have modern shopping malls with plenty of food.
5. The Warsaw Ghetto did not have modern 5 star restaurants opening up and advertising on the Internet.
6. Gaza city does not have soldiers on the streets, just muslim terrorists.
7. Gaza has access to water, food and fuel.

Do I really need to keep going.
The islamic clowns wouldn't be living behind large walls if they could control the urge to kill Jews.

Bobby. wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 11:03am:

Did the Nazis allow cement into Warsaw?

The Nazis allowed nothing into Warsaw.

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 11:12am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 11:03am: Did the Nazis allow cement into Warsaw? The Nazis allowed nothing into Warsaw.

Hi Chicken,
Can you see any similarities?

Bobby. wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 8:45am:

Israel is proof that WW2 never ended.

My grandparents spend WW2 in a Nazi Concentrations camp for being Jewish.

MOTR wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 5:09am:

falah wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 5:02pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 29th, 2012 at 1:40pm: who say they disappear? http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PaG-oRPFduY/TiweYiztuXI/AAAAAAAAAAM/1NAXPONTmdc/s1600/map2.jpg Avram, can't you understand that many outsiders are concerned about the concentration of the Palestinians into smaller and smaller areas of land. We can see Israel moving further and further away from a two state solution. I don't believe you will be happy until Israel controls the whole of Judea and Samaria.

Why does that map show Gaza as Palestinian land between 49-67?
Egypt had control of Gaza during that period they lost Gaza to Israel in the 1967 war.
Israel gave Gaza back to the Palestians when they took this land from Egypt's control.

The map also shows the west bank as being palestinian land when jordan had control of it, jordan lost the west bank to Israel in the 1967 war.

If you are going to use maps for propaganda it might pay to use ones that are accurate because you lose a sh1tload of credibility when you get caught telling lies.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 11:20am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 8:45am: Israel is proof that WW2 never ended. My grandparents spend WW2 in a Nazi Concentrations camp for being Jewish.

I am sorry to hear that.
One day - maybe 60 years from now - a Palestinian will say:

My parents spent 25 years in the Gaza concentration camp.

Bobby. wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 11:16am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 11:12am: [quote author=454845455E534F4245465316270 link=1332819060/122#122 date=1333069410]Did the Nazis allow cement into Warsaw? The Nazis allowed nothing into Warsaw.

The Polish people were skinny due to a food shortage.

The men is the West Bank and Gaza ranked 8th in the world for obesity.
The women in the West Bank and Gaza ranked 3rd in the world for obesity.
Source-http://www.economist.com/node/8846631

Abu has said the shia have a doctrine that allows them to tell lies,Falah has confirmed a sunni can tell lies in 3 circumstances, In war, can lie to your wife and to reconcile 2 or more parties.
They are at war so the muslims are allowed to tell whopping great lies and all the idiots lap up their propaganda.

How can people be starving when they are ranked near the top of the world for obesity do people just accept what muslims tell them without checking to see if it is true?

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 11:20am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 8:45am: Israel is proof that WW2 never ended. My grandparents spend WW2 in a Nazi Concentrations camp for being Jewish.

And this gives you the right to perpetuate the same level of depravity on others?

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 11:49am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 11:20am: Bobby. wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 8:45am: Israel is proof that WW2 never ended. My grandparents spend WW2 in a Nazi Concentrations camp for being Jewish. And this gives you the right to perpetuate the same level of depravity on others?

You compare put peoples in camps and extermination through gas and compares with security check points and security blackade of materials to Gaza?

Bobby. wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 11:39am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 11:20am: Bobby. wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 8:45am: Israel is proof that WW2 never ended. My grandparents spend WW2 in a Nazi Concentrations camp for being Jewish. I am sorry to hear that. One day - maybe 60 years from now - a Palestinian will say: My parents spent 25 years in the Gaza concentration camp.

Maybe if one is build.
Right now time, there is no camp in all Gaza just free territory.

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 11:49am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 11:16am: chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 11:12am: [quote author=454845455E534F4245465316270 link=1332819060/122#122 date=1333069410]Did the Nazis allow cement into Warsaw? The Nazis allowed nothing into Warsaw. The Polish people were skinny due to a food shortage. The men is the West Bank and Gaza ranked 8th in the world for obesity. The women in the West Bank and Gaza ranked 3rd in the world for obesity. Source-http://www.economist.com/node/8846631 Abu has said the shia have a doctrine that allows them to tell lies,Falah has confirmed a sunni can tell lies in 3 circumstances, In war, can lie to your wife and to reconcile 2 or more parties. They are at war so the muslims are allowed to tell whopping great lies and all the idiots lap up their propaganda. How can people be starving when they are ranked near the top of the world for obesity do people just accept what muslims tell them without checking to see if it is true?

That's strange - am I going blind?
I've never seen a fat person in Gaza on TV.

Bobby. wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 12:41pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 11:49am: Bobby. wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 11:16am: chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 11:12am: [quote author=454845455E534F4245465316270 link=1332819060/122#122 date=1333069410]Did the Nazis allow cement into Warsaw? The Nazis allowed nothing into Warsaw. The Polish people were skinny due to a food shortage. The men is the West Bank and Gaza ranked 8th in the world for obesity. The women in the West Bank and Gaza ranked 3rd in the world for obesity. Source-http://www.economist.com/node/8846631 Abu has said the shia have a doctrine that allows them to tell lies,Falah has confirmed a sunni can tell lies in 3 circumstances, In war, can lie to your wife and to reconcile 2 or more parties. They are at war so the muslims are allowed to tell whopping great lies and all the idiots lap up their propaganda. How can people be starving when they are ranked near the top of the world for obesity do people just accept what muslims tell them without checking to see if it is true? That's strange - am I going blind? I've never seen a fat person in Gaza on TV.

This is what i has been saying.
You -- and all others -- has no real life experiences of Gaza, West Bank, Israel and the situation.

Everything of your opinion is bases on TV and newspaper.

I have real life experiences of all these.

Avram,

Quote:

This is what i has been saying. You -- and all others -- has no real life experiences of Gaza, West Bank, Israel and the situation. Everything of your opinion is bases on TV and newspaper. I have real life experiences of all these.

OK - so you confirm that Gaza is full of fat people?

Bobby. wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 12:47pm:

Avram, Quote: This is what i has been saying. You -- and all others -- has no real life experiences of Gaza, West Bank, Israel and the situation. Everything of your opinion is bases on TV and newspaper. I have real life experiences of all these. OK - so you confirm that Gaza is full of fat people?

I has see people in Gaza who is more fat than is the normal yes.

Remember i was in Gaza in war situation where many civilians is not on the streets when we Israeli soldier come into place with tanks.

OK - I take that back - Gaza is full of over fed people
who just complain a lot.

Bobby. wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 11:16am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 11:12am: Bobby. wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 11:03am: Did the Nazis allow cement into Warsaw? The Nazis allowed nothing into Warsaw. Hi Chicken, Can you see any similarities?

There are none.

Bobby. wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 11:39am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 11:20am: Bobby. wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 8:45am: Israel is proof that WW2 never ended. My grandparents spend WW2 in a Nazi Concentrations camp for being Jewish. I am sorry to hear that. One day - maybe 60 years from now - a Palestinian will say: My parents spent 25 years in the Gaza concentration camp.

I would suggest you look on line and do some research before saying such a silly thing again eh.
Gaza is nothing like a concentration camp, and you have nothing to prove otherwise.

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 11:49am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 11:16am: chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 11:12am: [quote author=454845455E534F4245465316270 link=1332819060/122#122 date=1333069410]Did the Nazis allow cement into Warsaw? The Nazis allowed nothing into Warsaw. The Polish people were skinny due to a food shortage. The men is the West Bank and Gaza ranked 8th in the world for obesity. The women in the West Bank and Gaza ranked 3rd in the world for obesity. Source-http://www.economist.com/node/8846631 Abu has said the shia have a doctrine that allows them to tell lies,Falah has confirmed a sunni can tell lies in 3 circumstances, In war, can lie to your wife and to reconcile 2 or more parties. They are at war so the muslims are allowed to tell whopping great lies and all the idiots lap up their propaganda. How can people be starving when they are ranked near the top of the world for obesity do people just accept what muslims tell them without checking to see if it is true?

I like the new multi story shopping malls in Gaza city full of chunky overweight Palestinians loitering around the food stalls.
U-Tube is a wonderful thing.
Another 5 star restaurant opened up in Gaza on the beachfront also being advertised.
We are yet to see photos taken by left wing NGO's of 'starving' skinny 120kg Palestinians.
The left have no evidence to demonstrate Gaza is a starving region.

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 11:49am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 11:20am: Bobby. wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 8:45am: Israel is proof that WW2 never ended. My grandparents spend WW2 in a Nazi Concentrations camp for being Jewish. And this gives you the right to perpetuate the same level of depravity on others?

Your going to need more than that.
Where's your evidence?

Bobby. wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 12:41pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 11:49am: Bobby. wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 11:16am: chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 11:12am: [quote author=454845455E534F4245465316270 link=1332819060/122#122 date=1333069410]Did the Nazis allow cement into Warsaw? The Nazis allowed nothing into Warsaw. The Polish people were skinny due to a food shortage. The men is the West Bank and Gaza ranked 8th in the world for obesity. The women in the West Bank and Gaza ranked 3rd in the world for obesity. Source-http://www.economist.com/node/8846631 Abu has said the shia have a doctrine that allows them to tell lies,Falah has confirmed a sunni can tell lies in 3 circumstances, In war, can lie to your wife and to reconcile 2 or more parties. They are at war so the muslims are allowed to tell whopping great lies and all the idiots lap up their propaganda. How can people be starving when they are ranked near the top of the world for obesity do people just accept what muslims tell them without checking to see if it is true? That's strange - am I going blind? I've never seen a fat person in Gaza on TV.

That's because there is no Gaza on Australian TV eh.
Look on-line.

i can not believe that some peoples who lives in other side to the world has come and say that comparison of Nazi Concentration killing camps is same as Gaza territory blockade of dangerous equipments.


I am so incredibly in my shock!

Bobby. wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 12:54pm:

OK - I take that back - Gaza is full of over fed people who just complain a lot.

No, they don't.
If they complain, Hamas will kneecap them or take to a three storey building and throw them off the roof.
The only people who complain in Gaza is the terrorists.
Can't get enough ammo, can't kill enough Jews, can't get enough weapons, the IDF don't miss, the rockets always miss, the IDF is actively hunting and targeting Hamas leaders.
How unfair is that?
Life sucks for your average Gazan muslim extremist.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 1:11pm:

i can not believe that some peoples who lives in other side to the world has come and say that comparison of Nazi Concentration killing camps is same as Gaza territory blockade of dangerous equipments. I am so incredibly in my shock!

Don't be shocked Avram.
Some left wing people believe what they wish to believe, and do not require the added burden of any proof whatsoever to justify their opinions.
And one doesn't have to be 22 thousand kilometers away.
The Orthodox Jewish faith in Israel, I understand is full of such people who also believe their should not be an Israel.
What you need to remember is these types of people both here and there are very much in the minority.
And the vast majority of people in the West are aware of the sacrifice Israel makes every single day of every week in every year in continuing to be the sole democracy in the Middle East.
Because what stands between muslim extremism in Gaza/West Bank, and those soft European cities is Israel, protecting through it's strength those very same European cities by stamping down hard on each and every single terrorist act inflicted on Israeli's by extremist muslim aggression.
And that is something worth remembering.

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 1:43pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 1:11pm: i can not believe that some peoples who lives in other side to the world has come and say that comparison of Nazi Concentration killing camps is same as Gaza territory blockade of dangerous equipments. I am so incredibly in my shock! Don't be shocked Avram. Some left wing people believe what they wish to believe, and do not require the added burden of any proof whatsoever to justify their opinions. And one doesn't have to be 22 thousand kilometers away. The Orthodox Jewish faith in Israel, I understand is full of such people who also believe their should not be an Israel. What you need to remember is these types of people both here and there are very much in the minority. And the vast majority of people in the West are aware of the sacrifice Israel makes every single day of every week in every year in continuing to be the sole democracy in the Middle East. Because what stands between muslim extremism in Gaza/West Bank, and those soft European cities is Israel, protecting through it's strength those very same European cities by stamping down hard on each and every single terrorist act inflicted on Israeli's by extremist muslim aggression. And that is something worth remembering.

And that is all you have got isn't it.....nice little catch phrases like "muslim extremists and muslim agression".  I am starting to understand that in your small mind Israel has the right to pummel anyone who resents their existence, and all because of your unfounded fears.

I don't care who "had mandated control" over the territories when the Israeli's rocked up with their tanks and their UN, US backing.  The fact is that generations of people lived, worked, studied and had families and homes.  They had a life. I doubt that they cared for the politics of the west at that time.  They just lived each day much like we do.  But all that changed didn't it.  And you just expect them to roll over and let their previous life go.

If the Japs had been successful in invading Aus as an "act of war" you, no doubt, would be the kind of coward that would feverishly learn Japanese while the rest of us would be members of the underground resistance!

glee wrote on Mar 30^th, 2012 at 2:19pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 1:43pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 30th, 2012 at 1:11pm: i can not believe that some peoples who lives in other side to the world has come and say that comparison of Nazi Concentration killing camps is same as Gaza territory blockade of dangerous equipments. I am so incredibly in my shock! Don't be shocked Avram. Some left wing people believe what they wish to believe, and do not require the added burden of any proof whatsoever to justify their opinions. And one doesn't have to be 22 thousand kilometers away. The Orthodox Jewish faith in Israel, I understand is full of such people who also believe their should not be an Israel. What you need to remember is these types of people both here and there are very much in the minority. And the vast majority of people in the West are aware of the sacrifice Israel makes every single day of every week in every year in continuing to be the sole democracy in the Middle East. Because what stands between muslim extremism in Gaza/West Bank, and those soft European cities is Israel, protecting through it's strength those very same European cities by stamping down hard on each and every single terrorist act inflicted on Israeli's by extremist muslim aggression. And that is something worth remembering. And that is all you have got isn't it.....nice little catch phrases like "muslim extremists and muslim agression".  I am starting to understand that in your small mind Israel has the right to pummel anyone who resents their existence, and all because of your unfounded fears. I don't care who "had mandated control" over the territories when the Israeli's rocked up with their tanks and their UN, US backing.  The fact is that generations of people lived, worked, studied and had families and homes.  They had a life. I doubt that they cared for the politics of the west at that time.  They just lived each day much like we do.  But all that changed didn't it.  And you just expect them to roll over and let their previous life go. If the Japs had been successful in invading Aus as an "act of war" you, no doubt, would be the kind of coward that would feverishly learn Japanese while the rest of us would be members of the underground resistance!

Firing 12,000 missiles and mortar rounds into Israeli towns is not just resenting there existence eh.
Kidnapping Israeli citizens is not resenting there existence.
Launching anti tank missiles into canary yellow schoolbuses is not resenting there existence.
Blowing up packed seaside cafeterias was not resenting there existence.
These are acts of war.
And 70% of the children, both jewish and muslim who live in Sderot today have PTSD, this is not an unfounded fear, this is fact.
You have totally underscored the actions of terrorists who's main objective in life is to kill and maim jews.
Well done.
And you forget that 1.5 million Muslims live peacefully within Israeli borders living and working there today.
And you and others might hanker for the old days, but guess what.
There gone, and they are not returning.
And most of the population in 2012 werent around or were not old enough to remember those days.
Why aren't you carrying on about Pakistan or all those other countries established by the UN in the 40's, 50's and 60's.
I'll tell you why.
Theirs no jews there.
Well done.
Congratulations.
Another useful idiot for Palestine.
As for doing nothing for the defence of this country, I served 20 years and have the medals to prove it.
On your bike slapnut.

Gazan Children Killed by Israeli Zionist Jews

http://mondoweiss.net/images/2011/12/final-beloved-children-of-gaza1.jpg


Gazan Children impoverished By Israeli Zionist Sanctions

http://media.nowpublic.net/images//35/6/356ab1b5d79b69c50ccd8993c8f18c6d.jpg

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0azEguH4GHfFY/610x.jpg