Avram Horowitz wrote on May 21^st, 2012 at 9:57pm:

He is blinded by hatred.

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 21^st, 2012 at 9:57pm:

Arabs are stupid...I know the Arabs. They are a stupid people.

falah wrote on May 21^st, 2012 at 10:43pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 21st, 2012 at 9:57pm: He is blinded by hatred. Avram Horowitz wrote on May 21st, 2012 at 9:57pm: Arabs are stupid...I know the Arabs. They are a stupid people.

They are stupid. Why throw rocks at me when you know I have Tavor and authorisation to shoot back?
Stupid.

I do not hate them. They are not worth hate.

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 21^st, 2012 at 11:04pm:

Why throw rocks at me when you know I have Tavor and authorisation to shoot back?

Because they are very brave.

falah wrote on May 21^st, 2012 at 10:43pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 21st, 2012 at 9:57pm: He is blinded by hatred. Avram Horowitz wrote on May 21st, 2012 at 9:57pm: Arabs are stupid...I know the Arabs. They are a stupid people.

Exactly so Avram.



I challenge anyone, to just read and study the Koran.

Its painful!

Anybody who could believe that the Koran came from God, is either, very stupid, or, very evil.

Or both.



The inerrant Koran???
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1295396564/0#0





Allah, and the God of Israel, are not the same god.

Google;
a different god allah

Google;
allah another god

Thanks Falah I was going to make this thread.

I have read the koran. I have read the bible. Without the blindness of belief I didnt know which passages were literal and which were figurative in either one. And each sect of both religions determines different passages are figurative or literal.

One thing though. If avram lives by the OT then thats the one with deuteronomy in it right? Death penalty for all sorts of things. Do you actually live by those rules avram?

SOB

He is a terrorist.
There is not much more you can say.

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 22^nd, 2012 at 10:54am:

He is a terrorist. There is not much more you can say.

I thought he was a student who has served in the army like 98% of the rest of his countrymen?

I am yet to see any evidence he has done anything terrorist in nature.
I would also doubt Australia would issue him a student visa if he had....

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 22^nd, 2012 at 12:15pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 10:54am: He is a terrorist. There is not much more you can say. I thought he was a student who has served in the army like 98% of the rest of his countrymen? I am yet to see any evidence he has done anything terrorist in nature. I would also doubt Australia would issue him a student visa if he had....

Dictionary definition terrorist not western definition

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 22^nd, 2012 at 12:17pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 12:15pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 10:54am: He is a terrorist. There is not much more you can say. I thought he was a student who has served in the army like 98% of the rest of his countrymen? I am yet to see any evidence he has done anything terrorist in nature. I would also doubt Australia would issue him a student visa if he had.... Dictionary definition terrorist not western definition

Performing conscripted national service in your country's armed forces is terrorism?

Awesome dictionary you have that.

You spent an 8 day ban thinking that one up?

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 22^nd, 2012 at 12:18pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 12:17pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 12:15pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 10:54am: He is a terrorist. There is not much more you can say. I thought he was a student who has served in the army like 98% of the rest of his countrymen? I am yet to see any evidence he has done anything terrorist in nature. I would also doubt Australia would issue him a student visa if he had.... Dictionary definition terrorist not western definition Performing conscripted national service in your country's armed forces is terrorism? Awesome dictionary you have that. You spent an 8 day ban thinking that one up?

The act of terrorism is using terror to enforce an ideal on others.
Why is it not terrorism when a government does this?

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 22^nd, 2012 at 12:24pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 12:18pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 12:17pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 12:15pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 10:54am: He is a terrorist. There is not much more you can say. I thought he was a student who has served in the army like 98% of the rest of his countrymen? I am yet to see any evidence he has done anything terrorist in nature. I would also doubt Australia would issue him a student visa if he had.... Dictionary definition terrorist not western definition Performing conscripted national service in your country's armed forces is terrorism? Awesome dictionary you have that. You spent an 8 day ban thinking that one up? The act of terrorism is using terror to enforce an ideal on others. Why is it not terrorism when a government does this?

Bizarre.
Here's me thinking a guy who serves in his country's army which is under constant attack from neighbours and has actually been attacked by 4 countries in the 60 years on 4 occasions would be classed as stock standard national service.

Whereas the guys who set of bombs in market places, murder school children with nail bombs and fire rockets randomly at cities are obviously just stand-up guys.

Lovely to see that streak of anti-semitism alive and well 8 days later.

What's the next ban? 16 days?

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 22^nd, 2012 at 12:27pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 12:24pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 12:18pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 12:17pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 12:15pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 10:54am: He is a terrorist. There is not much more you can say. I thought he was a student who has served in the army like 98% of the rest of his countrymen? I am yet to see any evidence he has done anything terrorist in nature. I would also doubt Australia would issue him a student visa if he had.... Dictionary definition terrorist not western definition Performing conscripted national service in your country's armed forces is terrorism? Awesome dictionary you have that. You spent an 8 day ban thinking that one up? The act of terrorism is using terror to enforce an ideal on others. Why is it not terrorism when a government does this? Bizarre. Here's me thinking a guy who serves in his country's army which is under constant attack from neighbours and has actually been attacked by 4 countries in the 60 years on 4 occasions would be classed as stock standard national service. Whereas the guys who set of bombs in market places, murder school children with nail bombs and fire rockets randomly at cities are obviously just stand-up guys. Lovely to see that streak of anti-semitism alive and well 8 days later. What's the next ban? 16 days?

So it would be terrorism for jews to have defended themselves against the nazis?

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 22^nd, 2012 at 12:38pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 12:27pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 12:24pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 12:18pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 12:17pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 12:15pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 10:54am: He is a terrorist. There is not much more you can say. I thought he was a student who has served in the army like 98% of the rest of his countrymen? I am yet to see any evidence he has done anything terrorist in nature. I would also doubt Australia would issue him a student visa if he had.... Dictionary definition terrorist not western definition Performing conscripted national service in your country's armed forces is terrorism? Awesome dictionary you have that. You spent an 8 day ban thinking that one up? The act of terrorism is using terror to enforce an ideal on others. Why is it not terrorism when a government does this? Bizarre. Here's me thinking a guy who serves in his country's army which is under constant attack from neighbours and has actually been attacked by 4 countries in the 60 years on 4 occasions would be classed as stock standard national service. Whereas the guys who set of bombs in market places, murder school children with nail bombs and fire rockets randomly at cities are obviously just stand-up guys. Lovely to see that streak of anti-semitism alive and well 8 days later. What's the next ban? 16 days? So it would be terrorism for jews to have defended themselves against the nazis?

Take your anti-semitism elsewhere.

Do you think a guy who gets onto a crowded bus in a marketplace and sets off a nail-bomb which kills a pregnant woman, 10 children aged under 5 is a terrorist or not?

Ps - Hamas admitted and claimed responsibility.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 22^nd, 2012 at 12:39pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 12:38pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 12:27pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 12:24pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 12:18pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 12:17pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 12:15pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 10:54am: He is a terrorist. There is not much more you can say. I thought he was a student who has served in the army like 98% of the rest of his countrymen? I am yet to see any evidence he has done anything terrorist in nature. I would also doubt Australia would issue him a student visa if he had.... Dictionary definition terrorist not western definition Performing conscripted national service in your country's armed forces is terrorism? Awesome dictionary you have that. You spent an 8 day ban thinking that one up? The act of terrorism is using terror to enforce an ideal on others. Why is it not terrorism when a government does this? Bizarre. Here's me thinking a guy who serves in his country's army which is under constant attack from neighbours and has actually been attacked by 4 countries in the 60 years on 4 occasions would be classed as stock standard national service. Whereas the guys who set of bombs in market places, murder school children with nail bombs and fire rockets randomly at cities are obviously just stand-up guys. Lovely to see that streak of anti-semitism alive and well 8 days later. What's the next ban? 16 days? So it would be terrorism for jews to have defended themselves against the nazis? Take your anti-semitism elsewhere. Do you think a guy who gets onto a crowded bus in a marketplace and sets off a nail-bomb which kills a pregnant woman, 10 children aged under 5 is a terrorist or not? Ps - Hamas admitted and claimed responsibility.

I am not being anti semitic I am being anti terrorist, I would be supporting Israel if the roles were reversed.

I think that he is defending his nation as he has the right to do and considering he has no other options believe that he is right to do what he can.
Israel has been responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands more innocent children and they are terrorists.

Once again, would it be terrorism for jews to have defended themselves against the nazis? because it is the exact same situation.

Stop supporting terrorism

Quote:

So it would be terrorism for jews to have defended themselves against the nazis?

Quote:

Take your anti-semitism elsewhere.

How is that question anti-semitism?

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 22^nd, 2012 at 12:46pm:

Quote: So it would be terrorism for jews to have defended themselves against the nazis? [quote]Take your anti-semitism elsewhere.

How is that question anti-semitism?

SOB[/quote]
I think anti semitic means 'legitimate question which I cannot answer honestly without being a hypocritical douche bag'

So let's be clear here - you are saying the person who deliberately sets off a bomb on a bus in a marketplace and murders women and little children is right to do so? Also that you support it?

Also on the anti-semitism, you are the poster who called Avram fking Jew boy, that he should be shot and that Jews were scum.
Your track record betrays you.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 22^nd, 2012 at 1:09pm:

So let's be clear here - you are saying the person who deliberately sets off a bomb on a bus in a marketplace and murders women and little children is right to do so? Also that you support it? Also on the anti-semitism, you are the poster who called Avram fking Jew boy, that he should be shot and that Jews were scum. Your track record betrays you.

Yes, if they had another option I would not support it but they do not so they do what they can. Also, I prefer someone who is honest about what they are doing and not try and deny it like Jew terrorists.

Avram is a jew boy and I have stated that terrorist jews should be shot yes

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 22^nd, 2012 at 2:23pm:

Avram is a jew boy and I have stated that terrorist jews should be shot yes

I will give you a chance to take that back.
That is a racially offensive term to call him that.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 22^nd, 2012 at 3:04pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 2:23pm: Avram is a jew boy and I have stated that terrorist jews should be shot yes I will give you a chance to take that back. That is a racially offensive term to call him that.

Sorry he isn't a boy he is a jew terrorist

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 22^nd, 2012 at 10:54am:

He is a terrorist.

No he is not.

Avram has no love of terror.


PP = a dissembler, a lover of darkness.

Yadda wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 11:39am:

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 10:54am: He is a terrorist. No he is not. Avram has no love of terror. PP = a dissembler, a lover of darkness.

Have you read what he thinks of Palestinians?

What is your evidence that PP loves darkness?

Where is avram anyway?

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 11:55am:

Yadda wrote on May 23rd, 2012 at 11:39am: bobbythefap1 wrote on May 22nd, 2012 at 10:54am: He is a terrorist. No he is not. Avram has no love of terror. Have you read what he thinks of Palestinians? What is your evidence that PP loves darkness? Where is avram anyway? SOB

Being an intelligent person, Avram prolly believes that 'Palestinians' should get on with their lives,  .....somewhere else.

Israel belongs to the Jewish people.

Might is right.





p.s. that last line, is a quote expressing moslem philosophy on property and land ownership.

i.e. "We take, you give. That is Allah's law."

And after the Jewish people were given back their land, by the world community [post WWI, WWII], moslem philosophy on property and land ownership came into play once more.
i.e. "We take, you give. That is Allah's law."


My opinion of moslems, is that they worship a demon.

http://pravdiva.com.ua/data/images/Islam7.jpg
"Pssst, pssst Allah, please destroy Israel.    Sorry, no can do. The God of Israel protects Israel.    You moslems tried four times already to destroy Israel. Can't you see yet, that i am just a powerless demon who wants you to die for me? So please just attack Israel again, because i need more footstools down here."







+++


And according to moslems, the whole earth belongs to moslems.



"You should Know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to exile you from,,, this land, so whoever among you owns some property, can sell it, otherwise you should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #009.085.077
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.053.392


n.b.
"the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle"


According to Allah, THE WHOLE WORLD BELONGS TO MOSLEMS [as war booty], as per ISLAM's foundation texts, the Koran, and the Hadith....

"Or have they gods that can guard them from Us? They have no power to aid themselves, nor can they be defended from Us.
...See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"
Koran 21:43-44


"And He made you [moslems] heirs to their [non-moslem] land and their dwellings and their property, and (to) a land which you have not yet trodden, and Allah has power over all things."
Koran 33:27

Gaza Stip and west bank do not belong to jewish ppl.


Quote:

Being an intelligent person, Avram prolly believes that 'Palestinians' should get on with their lives,  .....somewhere else. Israel belongs to the Jewish people.

Israel yes. Gaza no. They have no right to try to push them off that land. They live there. They have nowhere else to go. Israelis kill them. I am sure their god is proud.

SOB

Yadda wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 12:19pm:

My opinion of moslems, is that they worship a demon.

Did prophet Abraham worship a demon Yadda?




And they say, "Be Jews or Christians, then you will be guided." Say, "Nay, we follow only the religion of (prophet) Abraham the Orthodox Monotheist, and he was not of the pagans."
[The Quran, al-Baqarah,  V. 135]



If Islam never existed, would "Allah" still be a known Name for GOD Almighty among the Arab Jews and Christians today?

"Allah" in Arabic is "Elaw" in Aramaic.  The Jews and Christians before Islam called GOD Almighty as "Allah" in the Middle East.   "Allah" means the GOD Almighty that is above all gods (idols, humans, etc...).  "Elaw" in Aramaic means "God" or "GOD", and it means the same thing that the Arabic "Allah" means.

I have provided archeological evidence that proved that the Arabic and Aramaic-speaking Jews and Christians in the 4rd century (200 years before Islam) called GOD Almighty as "Allah".  The Hebrew speaking ones of course called Him "Yahweh" or "Jehovah", which means "The LORD" or "GOD".  "Yahweh" is a Hebrew-language word.   "Allah" is both Arabic and Aramaic.

Most Recent Archological Discoveries:

Recently Father Pecerillo, a famous Franciscan Archeologist, found more than twenty churches in Madaba at the south of Jordan. From the Forth Century we found houses in Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Palestine with this inscription in Arabic :"Bismi Allah al-Rahman al-Raheem" which shows that even people before Islam used this Holy name, "Allah", for GOD Almighty, which proves that the name of GOD Almighty in the Noble Quran, "Allah", is the correct one.  This also proves to us that the Bible is not all found.  There are still missing pieces in it that disprove trinity.

Further discoveries from an Arabic Roman Catholic web site at http://www.al-bushra.org/arbhrtg/arbxtn04.htm:

Recently also, Father Pecerillo, a famous Franciscan Archeologist, found from the Forth Century (200 years before Islam) houses in Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Palestine with this inscription in Arabic :"Bismi Allah al-Rahman al-Raheem" which means in Arabic "In the name of ALLAH, the Most Merciful and the Most Gracious", which again proves that His Holy name existed before Islam and it also proves the True Oneness of Allah Almighty and refutes Trinity.

Here is an analysis to the Arabic words above:

Bismi - Ism = name. Bism = In name, because "Bi" = in.  Bismi = In the name of, because the "i" at the end of the word must be added because of the "Bi" addition.  When we added "Bi" to the word "Ism", then the "i" must also be added to the end of "Bism" if and only if the word "Bism" is followed by another word, which makes it become all one word "Bismi" which means "In the name of".

Allah - Allah is the name of Allah Almighty.  Bismi Allah sounds as "bismillah", but two seperate words.  "Bismi" is one seperate word and "Allah" is another seperate word.

Al-Rahman - Al = the.  Rahman = merciful.   Rahman is derived from Rahmah, which means mercy.  Al-Rahman is one word.   It is not like English two words "the merciful".  No, in Arabic, "the" is combined with the word both are written as one word; "Al-Rahman".

Al-Raheem - Al = the. Raheem = gracious.  Al-Raheem = the gracious.  Again, Al-Raheem is written as one Arabic word, and not two.

"Bismi Allah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem" = "In the name of Allah the Most Merciful and the Most Gracious".

Here is how the four Arabic words "Bismi Allah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem" written in Arabic:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/bismi_blue.jpg

The Arabic word Allah is cognate to 'Eloah', a rare Hebrew synonym for El or Elohim, both used as generic words for "god." Allah is composed of Al (the) and Ilah (God). Note also the Aramaic word "Elaha" and the Ancient Hebrew Elah, meaning "Fearful one" 

Hebrew and Arabic are both Semitic Languages, as were Akkadian, Phoenician and Proto Canaanite languages.  The older languages were written with "implicit" vowels, a recurring theme in all Semitic languages.

The Canaanite "El" or "Il" was part of a polytheistic pantheon and his wife was called Asherah. The Canaanite God's were often prefixed with Ba'al, which means lord. So we have Ba'al Hadad, Ba'al Yam and Ba'al Mat who were the sons of El. 

The Hittites, who spoke a form of Indo European language worshipped Il kunirsa, whose wife was called Asherdu. They had 46 sons from memory.

El is also equated with the Greek god Poseidon.

falah wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 1:07pm:

Yadda wrote on May 23rd, 2012 at 12:19pm: My opinion of moslems, is that they worship a demon. Did prophet Abraham worship a demon Yadda? And they say, "Be Jews or Christians, then you will be guided." Say, "Nay, we follow only the religion of (prophet) Abraham the Orthodox Monotheist, and he was not of the pagans." [The Quran, al-Baqarah,  V. 135]

No, Abraham worshipped the God of creation,     and NOT Allah.

According to ISLAM, Abraham was a moslem.

But then, according to ISLAM, King David, King Solomon, and even Jesus were moslems.



According to the Koran, the Kaaba [in Mecca] was built by Abraham and his son Ishmael.

Google;
abraham kaaba

But there is no record in the OT bible, that Abraham visited Mecca.




+++



THE TRUTH IS THAT;
Moslems have embraced a new and 'strange' narrative, contained within their own 'religious' texts [Koran & Hadith].

The fact is that the narrative contained in [u]the ISLAMIC foundation texts, the Koran & Hadith, has absolutely no connection, to[/u] the narrative recorded within the Jewish and Christian scriptures.



In order to subvert the [spiritual] authority of Christianity, moslems will make the claim to Christians, that Jesus was a prophet of ISLAM.

BUT, ISLAMIC texts reveal a totally unkown 'Jesus', a Jesus who would be unrecognisable to Christians.

e.g.
IF YOU BELIEVE ISLAM THAT JESUS IS A PROPHET OF ISLAM, YOU MUST ALSO ACCEPT THAT....

Jesus did NOT die, [The NT records that Jesus died]
Jesus was NOT crucified, [The NT records that Jesus was crucified] [according to ISLAM, another person was crucified, in Jesus place]
Jesus was NOT resurrected by Allah, [The NT records that Jesus was resurrected by God]
Jesus is NOT a Jewish messiah, [The NT records that Jesus claimed to be the of messiah of his people, John 8:24]
Jesus is NOT the 'first-born' Son of God, [The NT records that Jesus claimed that, God was his father, John 8:54]
Jesus was whisked away to heaven [without dying] by Allah [ISLAMIC doctrine teaches, that the moslem Jesus will return to Earth at the 'end-time', TO KILL ALL CHRISTIANS, FOR NOT BEING MOSLEMS]
Jesus, on his return [at the 'end-time'] is a subordinate to al-Mahdi [the ISLAMIC 'end-time' messiah],
Jesus will serve ISLAM by being a destroyer of the 'polytheistic' Christian church at the 'end-time', i.e. at the 'end-time' return he is an 'enforcer' of ISLAMIC faith [a JIHADIST!!],
Jesus is a JIHADI WARRIOR, who at his return, will kill all Christians who still reject Allah / ISLAM.



n.b.
The moslem 'Jesus', presented by ISLAM, is not the New Testament Jesus.
The moslem 'Jesus', presented by ISLAM, is not the redeemer, Jesus.
The moslem 'Jesus', presented by ISLAM, IS A FAKE JESUS.

n.b.
This new narrative about Jesus is designed to 'draw in' weak Christians, into ISLAM's authority, and influence.



The Koran states,
Jesus did not die,
Jesus was not crucified,
SIGHTED IN THE KORAN...
Koran 004.157
v. 157 - 159

The Koran declares that Jesus was not God's son, and that Jesus is not divine, and the Koran states that Allah curses Christians;
SIGHTED IN THE KORAN...
Koran 006.101
Koran 009.030
Koran 037.152





Read some of these sources, explaining what ISLAM really teaches [to moslems] about Jesus....

"Deceptive God, Incompetent Messiah - What Islam Really Teaches About Allah and Jesus"
http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Wood/deceptive_god.htm

Google;
jesus Qur'an is the Messiah

Google;
jesus koran prophet of islam


Why are moslems doing this ???

Q.
Why are moslems trying to convince Christians that Jesus, was a prophet of ISLAM ???

A.
Moslems intend to destroy all religious authority [external to ISLAM], and, to destroy all faith in God.
And moslems are trying to destroy the faith of weak and gullible Christians.



If you are a Christian and you want to bolster your faith, in Jesus, read your Bible.



ISLAM is evil, and ISLAM is not of God.



ISLAM is a lie, totally.



Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Yadda wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 9:33pm:

falah wrote on May 23rd, 2012 at 1:07pm: Yadda wrote on May 23rd, 2012 at 12:19pm: My opinion of moslems, is that they worship a demon. Did prophet Abraham worship a demon Yadda? And they say, "Be Jews or Christians, then you will be guided." Say, "Nay, we follow only the religion of (prophet) Abraham the Orthodox Monotheist, and he was not of the pagans." [The Quran, al-Baqarah,  V. 135] No, Abraham worshipped the God of creation,     and NOT Allah. According to ISLAM, Abraham was a moslem. But then, according to ISLAM, King David, King Solomon, and even Jesus were moslems. According to the Koran, the Kaaba [in Mecca] was built by Abraham and his son Ishmael. But there is no record in the OT bible, that Abraham visited Mecca

Abraham visited Mecca many times and we can see in the Bible that it this must be the case.


Ishmael was born when Abraham was 86 years old:



Quote:

11 The angel of the Lord also said to her: “You are now pregnant and you will give birth to a son. You shall name him Ishmael...She gave this name to the Lord who spoke to her: “You are the God who sees me, ” for she said, “I have now seen the One who sees me.” 14 That is why the well was called Beer Lahai Roi; it is still there, between Kadesh  and Bered. 15 So Hagar bore Abram a son, and Abram gave the name Ishmael to the son she had borne. 16 Abram was eighty-six years old when Hagar bore him Ishmael. [Genesis 16]

When Ishmael was still a small child, Abraham sent him and his mother to live in Mecca:


Quote:

14 Early the next morning Abraham took some food and a skin of water and gave them to Hagar. He set them on her shoulders and then sent her off with the boy. She went on her way and wandered in the Desert of Beersheba. 15 When the water in the skin was gone, she put the boy under one of the bushes. 16 Then she went off and sat down about a bowshot away, for she thought, “I cannot watch the boy die.” And as she sat there, she began to sob. 17 God heard the boy crying, and the angel of God called to Hagar from heaven and said to her, “What is the matter, Hagar? Do not be afraid; God has heard the boy crying as he lies there. 18 Lift the boy up and take him by the hand, for I will make him into a great nation. ” 19 Then God opened her eyes and she saw a well of water. So she went and filled the skin with water and gave the boy a drink. 20 God was with the boy as he grew up. He lived in the desert and became an archer. 21 While he was living in the Desert of Paran (Mecca)... [Genesis 21]

Yet the Bible tells us that Abraham was with Ishmael 13 years later:


Quote:

23 On that very day Abraham took his son Ishmael and all those born in his household or bought with his money, every male in his household, and circumcised them, as God told him. 24 Abraham was ninety-nine years old when he was circumcised, 25 and his son Ishmael was thirteen; 26 Abraham and his son Ishmael were both circumcised on that very day... [Genesis 17]

Arab and Islamic tradition holds that the wilderness of Paran is broadly speaking the Hijaz, and that the site where Ishmael settled is that of Mecca. An 1851 Arabic translation of the Samaritan Pentateuch includes a footnote also equating Paran with the Hijaz

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=NeoOAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA75&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=arabic%20pharan&f=true
[/quote]

Paran/Hijaz Region

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9f/Hijaz.png/651px-Hijaz.png

Bible mentions Prophet Muhammed in Hijaz/Paran. When Prophet Muhammed liberated Mecca he was accompanied by an army of 10,000.


Quote:

The Prophet [peace and blessings of God upon him] left Medina [for Mecca] in the company of ten thousand in Ramadan. [Saheeh Bukhari]

Quote:

And Enoch also, the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, "Behold, the Lord came with ten thousand of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.  [Jude 1:14-15]

Quote:

He shined forth from mount Pa'-ran [Mecca in Arabic], and he came with ten thousand saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.  [Deuteronomy 33:2]

So obviously Abraham made visits to Mecca to see the other part of his family.


Muhammed in the Bible

Hebrew version of Song of Songs 5:16:


Quote:

חִכּוֹ, מַמְתַקִּים, וְכֻלּוֹ, מַחֲמַדִּים; זֶה דוֹדִי וְזֶה רֵעִי, בְּנוֹת יְרוּשָׁלִָם (His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is MUHAMMAD. This is my (paternal) UNCLE, and this is my COMRADE, O daughters of Jerusalem)

Ok so the title asks the beliefs of me I am happy to say what is my beliefs.

I have come to Australia this year and I stay as student til jan 2013.
Then I return to Tel Aviv.
Now what do I believe?
I am secular Jewish. This for me means I class myself as Jew and observe main traditions but do not always every week be at temple etc.
I believe in the book and commands of God. I am sorry some here may not like but I do believe Jews are the chosen people of God. This does not mean I don't like other people but that Jews are chosen by God.

In my regards of homeland.
Now I would like all to live in peace.
I believe in a strong Israel always able to defend herself from attacks by multiple Arabs countries.
But too I believe Palestinians can exist as neighbours to us.
But they must stop rocket attacks from Hamas.

The settlements in west bank must stay. I know these places I have patrolled them in national service it is impossible to remove them and not have security problems.

Palestinians must remove support for Hamas too.
They have blood on their hands. Hamas is a problem for me.

Now like I say. For me peace or war is in the hands of the Palestinians.
If they want peace, they can have it. We have given them Gaza and West Bank but attacks must stop.

They want peace they can have peace.
If they want war then they must understand who they choose to fight. We can tear down every house, every building, we can reduce their homes to nothing. We can turn their sky red and we can bring them a lesson they will never forget!

It is their choice what they want.

Quote:

But too I believe Palestinians can exist as neighbours to us.

I wonder if Abu and Falah could reciprocate this gesture without qualifying it as temporary or some other silly attempt at deception.

Quote:

I believe in the book and commands of God. I am sorry some here may not like but I do believe Jews are the chosen people of God. This does not mean I don't like other people but that Jews are chosen by God.

Chosen for what?

SOB

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 8:19am:

Quote: But too I believe Palestinians can exist as neighbours to us. I wonder if Abu and Falah could reciprocate this gesture without qualifying it as temporary or some other silly attempt at deception.

I believe Israelis can live as good neighbours as soon as they get off stolen Palestinian land.

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 6:38am:

Palestinians must remove support for Hamas too. They have blood on their hands. Hamas is a problem for me.

Jews must remove support for Israel. They have blood on their hands.


Quote:

'More than 1,000 killed in Gaza' Palestinian deaths in the Gaza Strip have passed 1,000, medical sources in Gaza say, as Egypt continues efforts to broker a ceasefire. Nearly a third of the dead are reported to be children and nearly 5,000 people have been injured. After talks in Cairo, Hamas officials said they were happy with the broad outlines of an Egyptian initiative but that details remained to be worked out. Israeli negotiators are to visit Cairo to discuss Egypt's proposal. The Ministry of Health in Gaza said 1,013 people have died in the conflict which started 19 days ago. More than 300 of the dead are said to be children, 76 are women and more than 4,500 people have been injured, of whom 1,600 are children and 678 are women. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7828884.stm

Quote:

Israel admits killing 189 children in Gaza campaign Israel's armed forces admitted on Wednesday that 189 Palestinian children under the age of 15 were killed during the assault on the Gaza Strip. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/5049501/Israel-admits-killing-189-children-in-Gaza-campaign.html

I fought as a soldier in that Gaza operation

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 10:20am:

I fought as a soldier in that Gaza operation

You are bragging about it? WTF!

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 11:05am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 24th, 2012 at 10:20am: I fought as a soldier in that Gaza operation You are bragging about it? WTF! SOB

Ok if I understand the online dictionary correct am I proud of this?
Yes I am.

Cast Lead was a success and as IDF soldier who went in to Gaza to fight I am proud.

My father before me fought the Arabs in 1967 and now I do.

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 12:00pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 24th, 2012 at 11:05am: Avram Horowitz wrote on May 24th, 2012 at 10:20am: I fought as a soldier in that Gaza operation You are bragging about it? WTF! SOB Ok if I understand the online dictionary correct am I proud of this? Yes I am. Cast Lead was a success and as IDF soldier who went in to Gaza to fight I am proud. My father before me fought the Arabs in 1967 and now I do.

Avram,

What do you think would happen, if Israel will eventually annex [i.e. own] Samaria and Judea, and Gazza [and expel all moslems in those regions to Jordan and Egypt] ???

Do you think that this could ever happen ?

Or is this solution politically unacceptable, within Israel at the moment ?




+++

Personally, i don't believe that the Jewish people will ever be accepted by moslems of the region, or that there can ever be peace with moslems in Israel  [i.e. because moslems will never honour a peace with Israel].

The best option for Israel, imo, is for Israel to require all moslem residents >> to swear allegiance to Israel <<.

Then, those moslems >> who refuse to swear allegiance to Israel << must be expelled from Samaria and Judea, and Gazza,   .....to Jordan and Egypt.

Can Israel ever have a solution like this ???

Or is the 'politics' of such a solution too hard, for many Israelis ?

Yadda wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 4:20pm:

Personally, i don't believe that the Jewish people will ever be accepted by moslems of the region, or that there can ever be peace with moslems in Israel  [i.e. because moslems will never honour a peace with Israel].

You constantly expose your retardation on this forum Yadda.

Jews have been welcome amongst Muslims in Muslim countries for centuries before they went around terrorising Palestinians.

In 1948 there were Jews in every Muslim country - many of them living in great wealth and luxury.


Rabbi given palestinian citizenship:

http://www.nkusa.org/activities/recent/Hirsch091603/handshake.jpg


Jews meet hamas leader:

http://www.islamtimes.org/images/docs/000008/n00008333-b.jpg

http://www.thecornerreport.com/media/blogs/links/nuterei.jpg



Iran welcomes Jews

http://bokertov.typepad.com/btb/images/neturei_karta_w_ahmad_1.jpg

falah wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 4:40pm:

Yadda wrote on May 24th, 2012 at 4:20pm: Personally, i don't believe that the Jewish people will ever be accepted by moslems of the region, or that there can ever be peace with moslems in Israel  [i.e. because moslems will never honour a peace with Israel]. You constantly expose your retardation on this forum Yadda. Jews have been welcome amongst Muslims in Muslim countries for centuries before they went around terrorising Palestinians. In 1948 there were Jews in every Muslim country - many of them living in great wealth and luxury. Iran welcomes Jews http://bokertov.typepad.com/btb/images/neturei_karta_w_ahmad_1.jpg

Jeremiah 50:5
They shall ask the way to Zion with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual covenant that shall not be forgotten.
6  My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.
7  All that found them have devoured them: and their adversaries said, We offend not, because they have sinned against the LORD, the habitation of justice, even the LORD, the hope of their fathers.
8  Remove out of the midst of Babylon, and go forth out of the land of the Chaldeans, and be as the he goats before the flocks.


Psalms 132:13
For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.


Isaiah 1:27
Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.
28  And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed.


Isaiah 59:20
And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.



The state of Israel, 1948....

Isaiah 66:5
Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.
6  A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
7  Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
8  Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
9  Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
10  Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:
11  That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.
12  For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
13  As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.
14  And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies.

You do realise most ppl just skip over bible verses?

SOB

Israel's impending destruction foretold:

chapter 16 of the Book of Jeremiah

10 And it shall come to pass, when thou shalt shew this people all these words, and they shall say unto thee, Wherefore hath the LORD pronounced all this great evil against us? or what [is] our iniquity? or what [is] our sin that wehave committed against the LORD our God?

11Then shalt thou say unto them, Because your fathers have forsaken me,saith the LORD, and have walked after other gods, and have served them, andhave worshipped them, and have forsaken me, and have not kept my law;

12And ye have done worse than your fathers; for, behold, ye walk everyone after the imagination of his evil heart, that they may not hearken unto me:

13 Therefore will I cast you out of this land into a land that ye know not,[neither] ye nor your fathers; and there shall ye serve other gods day and night;where I will not shew you favour.

14 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no morebe said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the landof Egypt;

15 But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.

16 Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them fromevery mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.

17 For mine eyes [are] upon all their ways: they are not hid from my face, neither is their iniquity hid from mine eyes.

18And first I will recompense their iniquity and their sin double; because they have defiled my land, they have filled mine inheritance with the carcasses of their detestable and abominable things.”



Deuteronomy 28:25

The LORD will cause you to be defeated before your enemies. You will come at them from one direction but flee from them in seven, and you will become a thing of horror to all the kingdoms on earth.


Deuteronomy 28:45

All these curses will come upon you. They will pursue you and overtake you until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the LORD your God and observe the commands and decrees he gave you...Because you did not serve the LORD your God joyfully and gladly in the time of prosperity







Jeremiah 31:36


If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.



Hosea 13:9

"You are destroyed, O Israel, because you are against me, against your helper.


Here is Deuteronomy 29:23:

Your children who follow you in later generations and foreigners who come from distant lands will see the calamities that have fallen on the land and the diseases with which the LORD has afflicted it.

Micah 3:11-12:

11 Her leaders judge for a bribe, her priests teach for a price, and her prophets tell fortunes for money. Yet they lean upon the LORD and say, "Is not the LORD among us? No disaster will come upon us."

12 Therefore because of you, Zion will be plowed like a field, Jerusalem will become a heap of rubble, the temple hill a mound overgrown with thickets.


Here is 1 Thessalonians 5:1-9:

1 Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you,

2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

3 While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
Leviticus 26:33


33 I will scatter you among the nations and will draw out my sword and pursue you. Your land will be laid waste, and your cities will lie in ruins.

Yadda wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 4:20pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 24th, 2012 at 12:00pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 24th, 2012 at 11:05am: Avram Horowitz wrote on May 24th, 2012 at 10:20am: I fought as a soldier in that Gaza operation You are bragging about it? WTF! SOB Ok if I understand the online dictionary correct am I proud of this? Yes I am. Cast Lead was a success and as IDF soldier who went in to Gaza to fight I am proud. My father before me fought the Arabs in 1967 and now I do. Avram, What do you think would happen, if Israel will eventually annex [i.e. own] Samaria and Judea, and Gazza [and expel all moslems in those regions to Jordan and Egypt] ??? Do you think that this could ever happen ? Or is this solution politically unacceptable, within Israel at the moment ? +++ Personally, i don't believe that the Jewish people will ever be accepted by moslems of the region, or that there can ever be peace with moslems in Israel  [i.e. because moslems will never honour a peace with Israel]. The best option for Israel, imo, is for Israel to require all moslem residents >> to swear allegiance to Israel <<. Then, those moslems >> who refuse to swear allegiance to Israel << must be expelled from Samaria and Judea, and Gazza,   .....to Jordan and Egypt. Can Israel ever have a solution like this ??? Or is the 'politics' of such a solution too hard, for many Israelis ?

That is a interesting question and has been suggested before in Israel.
But I do not believe it can work.

Most who want to annex all the west bank are the supporters for Netanyahu and also the Russian migrants also too the orthodoxes.
Now me I know we do not need or want Gaza. It is too dense populated and we would need too many soldiers to keep control.
I have been some kms into Gaza as soldier and it is hard to keep them under control also it has no value.
For me answer is best to keep border and sea blockade until they remove Hamas.

Now for Judea and Samaria, this is different. I think we have build too many settlements but now they are built no we should not remove them. I think we keep create security circles to link and unfortunately this means we may have to move some residentials.

But we have a two state solution with Israel in control of settlements areas and Palestinians in west bank and Gaza.

I think we must be care of UN opinions so it's important to keep discussions with USA on strategy and Jewish groups in USA to pressure US government, this way USA can stop bad UN resolution which are anti-Israel. USA has good record of being fair to Israel in UN.

So me I think we need middle way but also be firm.
I don't hate Arabs but I don't like them. They attack my country.
But if living with them means peace I accept it.

We must be fair and just.
But know this if they attack and kill our people then I support Netanyahu if he says we will destroy every building and town they have. We turn their homes into living hell.
They will know not to touch the Jews ever again or they feel the force of God himself.

Yadda wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 4:20pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 24th, 2012 at 12:00pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 24th, 2012 at 11:05am: Avram Horowitz wrote on May 24th, 2012 at 10:20am: I fought as a soldier in that Gaza operation You are bragging about it? WTF! SOB Ok if I understand the online dictionary correct am I proud of this? Yes I am. Cast Lead was a success and as IDF soldier who went in to Gaza to fight I am proud. My father before me fought the Arabs in 1967 and now I do. Avram, What do you think would happen, if Israel will eventually annex [i.e. own] Samaria and Judea, and Gazza [and expel all moslems in those regions to Jordan and Egypt] ??? Do you think that this could ever happen ? Or is this solution politically unacceptable, within Israel at the moment ? +++ Personally, i don't believe that the Jewish people will ever be accepted by moslems of the region, or that there can ever be peace with moslems in Israel  [i.e. because moslems will never honour a peace with Israel]. The best option for Israel, imo, is for Israel to require all moslem residents >> to swear allegiance to Israel <<. Then, those moslems >> who refuse to swear allegiance to Israel << must be expelled from Samaria and Judea, and Gazza,   .....to Jordan and Egypt. Can Israel ever have a solution like this ??? Or is the 'politics' of such a solution too hard, for many Israelis ?

I expect the Israelis will keep reclaiming land bit by bit, whatever is used by Palestinians to launch rockets from. Once into neighbouring countries it will be completely different, because those countries will not allow their citizens to launch rockets into Israel.

Soon the Jews will find that they have pushed their greed too far. How they will wish that had made peace when they had the chance.

falah wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 7:12pm:

Soon the Jews will find that they have pushed their greed too far. How they will wish that had made peace when they had the chance.

;D  ;D

falah wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 7:12pm:

Soon the Jews will find that they have pushed their greed too far. How they will wish that had made peace when they had the chance.

Soon Israel will be forced to send a couple "buckets full of sunshine" to Iran. Then all Muslims will calm down.

The world will stop supporting israeli atrocities @ some point. the religious nuts cant control everything forever - they have to give others a go.

Israel doesnt deserve to exist imo. they are abusing their position.

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 25^th, 2012 at 7:13am:

The world will stop supporting israeli atrocities @ some point. the religious nuts cant control everything forever - they have to give others a go. Israel doesnt deserve to exist imo. they are abusing their position. SOB

You would hope

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 6:03pm:

That is a interesting question and has been suggested before in Israel. But I do not believe it can work. Most who want to annex all the west bank are the supporters for Netanyahu and also the Russian migrants also too the orthodoxes. Now me I know we do not need or want Gaza. It is too dense populated and we would need too many soldiers to keep control. I have been some kms into Gaza as soldier and it is hard to keep them under control also it has no value. For me answer is best to keep border and sea blockade until they remove Hamas. Now for Judea and Samaria, this is different. I think we have build too many settlements but now they are built no we should not remove them. I think we keep create security circles to link and unfortunately this means we may have to move some residentials. But we have a two state solution with Israel in control of settlements areas and Palestinians in west bank and Gaza. I think we must be care of UN opinions so it's important to keep discussions with USA on strategy and Jewish groups in USA to pressure US government, this way USA can stop bad UN resolution which are anti-Israel. USA has good record of being fair to Israel in UN. So me I think we need middle way but also be firm. I don't hate Arabs but I don't like them. They attack my country. But if living with them means peace I accept it. We must be fair and just. But know this if they attack and kill our people then I support Netanyahu if he says we will destroy every building and town they have. We turn their homes into living hell. They will know not to touch the Jews ever again or they feel the force of God himself.

What a sensible post.
Goes to show how much more reasonable and forgiving of the situation the Israelis are in comparison to their opponents.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 25^th, 2012 at 11:36am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 24th, 2012 at 6:03pm: That is a interesting question and has been suggested before in Israel. But I do not believe it can work. Most who want to annex all the west bank are the supporters for Netanyahu and also the Russian migrants also too the orthodoxes. Now me I know we do not need or want Gaza. It is too dense populated and we would need too many soldiers to keep control. I have been some kms into Gaza as soldier and it is hard to keep them under control also it has no value. For me answer is best to keep border and sea blockade until they remove Hamas. Now for Judea and Samaria, this is different. I think we have build too many settlements but now they are built no we should not remove them. I think we keep create security circles to link and unfortunately this means we may have to move some residentials. But we have a two state solution with Israel in control of settlements areas and Palestinians in west bank and Gaza. I think we must be care of UN opinions so it's important to keep discussions with USA on strategy and Jewish groups in USA to pressure US government, this way USA can stop bad UN resolution which are anti-Israel. USA has good record of being fair to Israel in UN. So me I think we need middle way but also be firm. I don't hate Arabs but I don't like them. They attack my country. But if living with them means peace I accept it. We must be fair and just. But know this if they attack and kill our people then I support Netanyahu if he says we will destroy every building and town they have. We turn their homes into living hell. They will know not to touch the Jews ever again or they feel the force of God himself. What a sensible post. Goes to show how much more reasonable and forgiving of the situation the Israelis are in comparison to their opponents.

Sensible? Avram's plan for a "2-state" solution is to keep 90% of Palestine for Jews, keep an indefinite blockade on the Gaza strip, and to keep Jewish soldiers protecting illegal settlements inside the West Bank forever!

Who wouldn't like to have foreign soldiers in their country protecting illegal colonialists forever?

falah wrote on May 25^th, 2012 at 11:42am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 25th, 2012 at 11:36am: Avram Horowitz wrote on May 24th, 2012 at 6:03pm: That is a interesting question and has been suggested before in Israel. But I do not believe it can work. Most who want to annex all the west bank are the supporters for Netanyahu and also the Russian migrants also too the orthodoxes. Now me I know we do not need or want Gaza. It is too dense populated and we would need too many soldiers to keep control. I have been some kms into Gaza as soldier and it is hard to keep them under control also it has no value. For me answer is best to keep border and sea blockade until they remove Hamas. Now for Judea and Samaria, this is different. I think we have build too many settlements but now they are built no we should not remove them. I think we keep create security circles to link and unfortunately this means we may have to move some residentials. But we have a two state solution with Israel in control of settlements areas and Palestinians in west bank and Gaza. I think we must be care of UN opinions so it's important to keep discussions with USA on strategy and Jewish groups in USA to pressure US government, this way USA can stop bad UN resolution which are anti-Israel. USA has good record of being fair to Israel in UN. So me I think we need middle way but also be firm. I don't hate Arabs but I don't like them. They attack my country. But if living with them means peace I accept it. We must be fair and just. But know this if they attack and kill our people then I support Netanyahu if he says we will destroy every building and town they have. We turn their homes into living hell. They will know not to touch the Jews ever again or they feel the force of God himself. What a sensible post. Goes to show how much more reasonable and forgiving of the situation the Israelis are in comparison to their opponents. Sensible? Avram's plan for a "2-state" solution is to keep 90% of Palestine for Jews, keep an indefinite blockade on the Gaza strip, and to keep Jewish soldiers protecting illegal settlements inside the West Bank forever! Who wouldn't like to have foreign soldiers in their country protecting illegal colonialists forever?

You'll find he is advocating that Palestinians get to keep control of Gaza and much of the West Bank.

The other side seem intent on the Jewish people controlling nothing.

See how he is more reasonable?

PS - As the West Bank is technically under emergency military control of Israel, the settlements were not illegal in law. No matter what the UN said. The United States backed that position.

Who the heck cares what the yanks backed? Its not their land. Other ppl live there!

SOB

So Andrei would it be fair for the Palestinians to take 90% of the land and the Israelis to have only 10%?

falah wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 7:12pm:

Soon the Jews will find that they have pushed their greed too far. How they will wish that had made peace when they had the chance.

How are the jews supposed to make friends with the muslims when the Quran forbids this?


Quote:

Quran 5:51- Shakir O you who believe! do not take the jews and christians for friends,they are friends of each other, and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend,then surely he is one of them,surely allah does not guide the unjust people http:quran.com/5/51 Read all translations by ticking boxes on left side of page to dispel the mistranslation myth

Is Allah calling the jews unjust people, does this Islamic hatred of jews come from allah the most merciful?

If you quote a nice verse towards the jews does that mean it is a contradiction with 5:51 and what does sura 4:82 say about contradictions in the Quran?
http://quran.com/4/82

What does the hadith say about how jews are to be treated-

Quote:

Do not greet the jews and the christians before they greet you and when you meet any one of them on the roads force him to go to the narrowest part of it http://sunnah.com/search/narrowest

Falah-Abu
If you saw a jew approaching you would you force them to the narrowest part of the path like the hadith says you should?

Do you think it is a nice thing to force someone to the narrowest part of the path because they follow a different religion?

How can muslims achieve peace with the jews when Islam forbids this?

Quote:

How are the jews supposed to make friends with the muslims when the Quran forbids this?

The bible also states that Christians must kill Muslims or anyone of other faiths.

Quote:

Is Allah calling the jews unjust people, does this Islamic hatred of jews come from allah the most merciful?

You know I hate to say the Quran made a good prediction but the Jews certainly did a good job of fulfilling the prophecy.
[quote]

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

    Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.  Such evil must be purged from Israel.  (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)



Kill Witches

    You should not let a sorceress live.  (Exodus 22:17 NAB)



Kill Homosexuals
    "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."  (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)



Kill Fortunetellers

    A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death.  (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)



Death for Hitting Dad

    Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death.  (Exodus 21:15 NAB)



Death for Cursing Parents

    1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness.  (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

    2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death.  They are guilty of a capital offense.  (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)



Death for Adultery

    If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.  (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)



Death for Fornication

    A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.  (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)



Death to Followers of Other Religions

    Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed.  (Exodus 22:19 NAB)



Kill Nonbelievers

    They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.  (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)



Kill False Prophets

    If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord."  When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.  (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)



Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

    Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)



Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

    But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house.  Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.  (Deuteronomy  22:20-21 NAB)



Kill Followers of Other Religions.

    1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.  Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.  You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.  And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.  (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)



    2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden.  When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death.  (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)



Death for Blasphemy

    One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men.  During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name.  So the man was brought to Moses for judgment.  His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan.  They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear.  Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head.  Then let the entire community stone him to death.  Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished.  Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel.  Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die.  (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)



Kill False Prophets

    1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles,  and the predicted signs or miracles take place.  If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them.  The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul.  Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone.  Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him.  The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt.  Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you.  (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)



    2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.'  You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?'  If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message.  That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared.  (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)



Infidels and Gays Should Die

    So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired.  As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies.  Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies.  So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever.  Amen.  That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires.  Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other.  And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other.  Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved.  When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done.  Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip.  They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful.  They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents.  They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving.  They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway.  And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.  (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)



Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

    For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites.  You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment.  They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it.  Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again.  Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.'  (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)



Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

    The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever.

Baronvonrort wrote on May 25^th, 2012 at 12:09pm:

falah wrote on May 24th, 2012 at 7:12pm: Soon the Jews will find that they have pushed their greed too far. How they will wish that had made peace when they had the chance. How are the jews supposed to make friends with the muslims when the Quran forbids this?

Islam permits the making of peace treaties. Many peace plans have been offered to Israel over the decades.

Only one Israeli PM has made steps to make peace with the Palestinians, he was assassinated by a Jew for doing so.


Quote:

On the evening of November 4, 1995 (12th of Heshvan on the Hebrew Calendar[24]), Rabin was assassinated by Yigal Amir, a radical right-wing Orthodox Jew who opposed the signing of the Oslo Accords. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Rabin

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 25^th, 2012 at 12:13pm:

The bible also states that Christians must kill Muslims or anyone of other faiths.

So where in the bible are muslims mentioned can you cite this verse or did you pluck it from your ass?

Baronvonrort wrote on May 25^th, 2012 at 12:26pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 25th, 2012 at 12:13pm: The bible also states that Christians must kill Muslims or anyone of other faiths. So where in the bible are muslims mentioned can you cite this verse or did you pluck it from your ass?

Perhaps read your bible, or maybe just the rest of my post. Or do you know even know the basis of your own religion?

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 25^th, 2012 at 7:13am:

The world will stop supporting israeli atrocities @ some point. the religious nuts cant control everything forever - they have to give others a go. Israel doesnt deserve to exist imo. they are abusing their position. SOB

The world has never supported Israeli attrocities. They just find it hard to suggest a way forward, given people like Abu and Falah insist Palestine has not lost the war that ended decades ago and should never surrender because they will win soon enough.


Quote:

Islam permits the making of peace treaties.

Falah you only just finished explaining how meaningless such a treaty is from a Muslim.

falah wrote on May 25^th, 2012 at 12:14pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on May 25th, 2012 at 12:09pm: falah wrote on May 24th, 2012 at 7:12pm: Soon the Jews will find that they have pushed their greed too far. How they will wish that had made peace when they had the chance. How are the jews supposed to make friends with the muslims when the Quran forbids this? Islam permits the making of peace treaties. Many peace plans have been offered to Israel over the decades. Only one Israeli PM has made steps to make peace with the Palestinians, he was assassinated by a Jew for doing so. Quote: On the evening of November 4, 1995 (12th of Heshvan on the Hebrew Calendar[24]), Rabin was assassinated by Yigal Amir, a radical right-wing Orthodox Jew who opposed the signing of the Oslo Accords. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Rabin

The Egyptians want to get rid of their peace treaty with Israel  try google for that one falah.

Would you follow the hadith that says you should force a jew to the narrowest part of the path if one approached you?

That sounds like ideological thuggery to me.

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 25^th, 2012 at 12:28pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on May 25th, 2012 at 12:26pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on May 25th, 2012 at 12:13pm: The bible also states that Christians must kill Muslims or anyone of other faiths. So where in the bible are muslims mentioned can you cite this verse or did you pluck it from your ass? Perhaps read your bible, or maybe just the rest of my post. Or do you know even know the basis of your own religion?

Can you cite any verse in the bible where muslims are mentioned or can you admit you plucked that bullshit from your ass?

I have no religion-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheism

Baronvonrort wrote on May 25^th, 2012 at 12:35pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 25th, 2012 at 12:28pm: Baronvonrort wrote on May 25th, 2012 at 12:26pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on May 25th, 2012 at 12:13pm: The bible also states that Christians must kill Muslims or anyone of other faiths. So where in the bible are muslims mentioned can you cite this verse or did you pluck it from your ass? Perhaps read your bible, or maybe just the rest of my post. Or do you know even know the basis of your own religion? Can you cite any verse in the bible where muslims are mentioned or can you admit you plucked that bullshit from your ass? I have no religion- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheism

Oh sorry I could have sworn I remembered you saying you were religious.
But seriously look at my first post, I listed some of the verses.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 25^th, 2012 at 11:59am:

Who the heck cares what the yanks backed? Its not their land. Other ppl live there! SOB

You might want to check your global politics handbook.

The United States is a veto-wielding member of the Security Council.
If the USA supports Israel's position, there ain't nothing coming through the Resolutions station.

Baronvonrort wrote on May 25^th, 2012 at 12:26pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 25th, 2012 at 12:13pm: The bible also states that Christians must kill Muslims or anyone of other faiths. So where in the bible are muslims mentioned can you cite this verse or did you pluck it from your ass?

OR OF OTHER FAITHS - anyone not xtian is considered pagan. This is referenced a lot in that book. Good place to start is deuteronomy.

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 25^th, 2012 at 12:59pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on May 25th, 2012 at 12:26pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on May 25th, 2012 at 12:13pm: The bible also states that Christians must kill Muslims or anyone of other faiths. So where in the bible are muslims mentioned can you cite this verse or did you pluck it from your ass? OR OF OTHER FAITHS - anyone not xtian is considered pagan. This is referenced a lot in that book. Good place to start is deuteronomy. SOB

Muppet mentioned muslims i want him to cite where muslims are mentioned in the bible.

Baronvonrort wrote on May 25^th, 2012 at 1:12pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 25th, 2012 at 12:59pm: Baronvonrort wrote on May 25th, 2012 at 12:26pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on May 25th, 2012 at 12:13pm: The bible also states that Christians must kill Muslims or anyone of other faiths. So where in the bible are muslims mentioned can you cite this verse or did you pluck it from your ass? OR OF OTHER FAITHS - anyone not xtian is considered pagan. This is referenced a lot in that book. Good place to start is deuteronomy. SOB Muppet mentioned muslims i want him to cite where muslims are mentioned in the bible.

you obviously can read but not comprehend.


Quote:

The bible also states that Christians must kill Muslims or anyone of other faiths.

OR ANYONE OF OTHER FAITHS

SOB

falah wrote on May 25^th, 2012 at 12:14pm:

Islam permits the making of peace treaties. Many peace plans have been offered to Israel over the decades.

The implication that falah is proffering [above], is that ISLAM permits moslems to enter into a permanent peace, and sign a [permanent] peace treaty with a non-moslem community, or entity.

That is a barefaced >> moslem << lie.

It is unlawful, in ISLAMIC law, for a moslem nation or group or community of moslems, to accept, and be in a permanent state of peace, with any non-moslem community, or entity.






ISLAM does > NOT < permit moslems to make peace treaties, OR FOR MOSLEMS TO BE AT PEACE, with any sovereign non-moslem community, or entity.

falah is a moslem, and falsh KNOWS this is true.

falah is once again, deceiving forum members.




ISLAMIC law only permits a temporary tactical truce, a 'hudna' with Allah's enemies [and the hudna truce is only permitted whenever moslems are militarily weaker than their enemy].

The sole purpose of a hudna truce, is to allow moslem forces to regroup, and gather their power, before a continuation of warfare with a non-moslem entity [......which is currently militarily stronger than the moslems].



Every moslem knows full well, that even the moslem salutation [the official moslem greeting offered to other moslems]
"Assalam-U-Alaikum"
[literally; May Peace be with you), is not to be offered to infidels.

Why is this so ?

Because all moslems KNOW that Allah has declared that he [Allah] is the enemy of all infidels.      Koran 2.98

Google;
Assalam-U-Alaikum, is a salutation (May Peace be with you), not to be said to





An explanation of the ISLAMIC 'hudna' [a tactical truce] by DDA....

Quote:

Hudna. Plain and simple.           Hudna.......[is a] 'truce treaty', which Muslims may make with Infidels if they deem it prudent for the moment to retreat, regroup and rearm; and which may be broken at any time by the Muslim side, the moment they deem themselves strong enough once more to go in for the kill. And a hudna is never meant to last more than *ten years*. Why? Because the legendary Treaty of Hudaybiyya, believed by Muslims to have been made by Mohammed with the Meccans, a treaty which he insincerely made and then treacherously broke, was supposed to have a 'use-by' date of ten years.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/05/indonesia-dozens-of-christians-flee-as-muslims-set-fire-to-their-houses.html#comment-879883


more DDA.....

Quote:

"Only when Muslim power is weak is "temporary truce" (hudna) allowed (Islamic jurists differ on the definition of "temporary")."...

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/05/exclusive-senior-us-general-orders.html#comment-876685



Google;
hudna, tactical truce

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 25^th, 2012 at 12:13pm:

The bible also states that Christians must kill Muslims or anyone of other faiths.

PP,

The Bible, including the OT bible, states no such thing.



And only two groups are the target of 'harsh' OT bible laws;

1/ Covenant breakers, and,
2/ Criminals and oppressors.

The Hebrews were not allowed [by their god] to kill any other persons, except those who fall into those two groups.






Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 25^th, 2012 at 12:59pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on May 25th, 2012 at 12:26pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on May 25th, 2012 at 12:13pm: The bible also states that Christians must kill Muslims or anyone of other faiths. So where in the bible are muslims mentioned can you cite this verse or did you pluck it from your ass? OR OF OTHER FAITHS - anyone not xtian is considered pagan. This is referenced a lot in that book. Good place to start is deuteronomy. SOB

Matthew 18:15
Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16  But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17  And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.



sob,

Where does Jesus say, that 'heathens' may be killed by believers ?





Even in the OT, God commanded the Hebrews to love 'unbelievers' [i.e. non-Hebrews],
.....BECAUSE THEIR GOD STATES THAT HE LOVES 'UNBELIEVERS'.




Exodus 12:49
One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Exodus 22:21
Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him...

Exodus 23:9
Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger...

Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
34  But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself...

n.b.
.....and thou shalt love him as thyself

Deuteronomy 1:16
And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

Deuteronomy 10:17-19
For the LORD your God... loveth the stranger, ...Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Deuteronomy 24:17
Thou shalt not pervert the judgment of the stranger, nor of the fatherless; nor take a widow's raiment to pledge:
18  But thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in Egypt, and the LORD thy God redeemed thee thence: therefore I command thee to do this thing.

Deuteronomy 27:19
Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger...

For phuk sake this really highlights the stupidity I am up against.
It is in text, clear as day on my first post.

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 25^th, 2012 at 9:04pm:

For phuk sake this really highlights the stupidity I am up against. It is in text, clear as day on my first post.

'For phuk sake', no it isn't,      you incompetent.


bobbythefap1 wrote on May 22^nd, 2012 at 10:54am:

He is a terrorist. There is not much more you can say.

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 25^th, 2012 at 9:04pm:

For phuk sake this really highlights the stupidity I am up against.

You?? Up against stupidity??

Soren wrote on May 25^th, 2012 at 10:22pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 25th, 2012 at 9:04pm: For phuk sake this really highlights the stupidity I am up against. You?? Up against stupidity??

This man is clearly on same side as you, my frien.

Yadda wrote on May 25^th, 2012 at 7:57pm:

falah wrote on May 25th, 2012 at 12:14pm: Islam permits the making of peace treaties. Many peace plans have been offered to Israel over the decades. Every moslem knows full well, that even the moslem salutation [the official moslem greeting offered to other moslems] "Assalam-U-Alaikum" [literally; May Peace be with you), is not to be offered to infidels

Yadda are you not ashamed to be spew out such lies? You and Freeliar sure have a lot in common with all these lies. Are you sure you are not one of Freeliar's sock puppets?

The Jews in Madina used to greet the Muslims with "al-saam ‘alaykum" (may death be upon you). in this case Muslims were ordered to reply to them with "and also upon you".

However, Islamic scholars have said that if the non-Muslim greets with "peace" Muslims should return the greeting of "peace".

The great scholar of islam, Ibn al-Qayyim, said:


Quote:

if the listener realized that the Dhimmi [Jew or Christian] has said “salaam ‘alaykum” and he is sure of that, should he say “wa ‘alayk al-salaam” (and upon you be peace) or just “wa ‘alayk” (and upon you)? According to the evidence and principles of sharee’ah (Islamic law), he should say “wa ‘alayk al-salaam” (and upon you be peace), because this is more fair, and God commands us to be just and to treat others well. [Ahkaam Ahl al-Dhimmah, 1/425, 426]

Another scholar, Ibn Uthaymeen, said:


Quote:

If they greet us, then we can respond in a manner similar to that in which they greet us, because God says (interpretation of the meaning of the Quran): “When you are greeted with a greeting, greet in return with what is better than it, or (at least) return it equally” [al-Nisaa’ 4:86]. [Majmoo’ Fataawaa Ibn ‘Uthaymeen, 2/97, 98]

Yadda wrote on May 25^th, 2012 at 7:57pm:

ISLAMIC law only permits a temporary tactical truce, a 'hudna' with Allah's enemies [and the hudna truce is only permitted whenever moslems are militarily weaker than their enemy]. It is unlawful, in ISLAMIC law, for a moslem nation or group or community of moslems, to accept, and be in a permanent state of peace, with any non-moslem community, or entity. ISLAM does > NOT < permit moslems to make peace treaties, OR FOR MOSLEMS TO BE AT PEACE, with any sovereign non-moslem community, or entity. The sole purpose of a hudna truce, is to allow moslem forces to regroup, and gather their power, before a continuation of warfare with a non-moslem entity [......which is currently militarily stronger than the moslems]... ...An explanation of the ISLAMIC 'hudna' [a tactical truce] by DDA.... Quote: Hudna. Plain and simple.           Hudna.......[is a] 'truce treaty', which Muslims may make with Infidels if they deem it prudent for the moment to retreat, regroup and rearm; and which may be broken at any time by the Muslim side, the moment they deem themselves strong enough once more to go in for the kill. And a hudna is never meant to last more than *ten years*. Why? Because the legendary Treaty of Hudaybiyya, believed by Muslims to have been made by Mohammed with the Meccans, a treaty which he insincerely made and then treacherously broke, was supposed to have a 'use-by' date of ten years. more DDA..... [quote]"Only when Muslim power is weak is "temporary truce" (hudna) allowed (Islamic jurists differ on the definition of "temporary")."...

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/05/exclusive-senior-us-general-orders.html#comment-876685

[/quote]



Yadda do you actually believe this crap or are you happy to espouse lies all the time?

The Treaty of Hudaybiyyah was not broken by the Muslims but by the pagans:


Quote:

Pre-Conquest Events According to the terms of the treaty of Hudaibiyah, the Arab tribes were given the option to join either of the parties, the Muslims or Quraish, with which they desired to enter into treaty alliance. Should any of these tribes suffer aggression, then the party to which it was allied would have the right to retaliate. As a consequence, Banu Bakr joined Quraish, and Khuza‘ah joined the Prophet (God bless him and give him peace). They thus lived in peace for sometime but ulterior motives stretching back to pre-Islamic period ignited by unabated fire of revenge triggered fresh hostilities. Banu Bakr, without caring a bit for the provisions of the treaty, attacked Banu Khuza‘ah in a place called Al-Wateer in Sha‘ban, 8 A.H. Quraish helped Banu Bakr with men and arms taking advantage of the dark night. Pressed by their enemies, the tribesmen of Khuza‘ah sought the Holy Sanctuary, but here too, their lives were not spared, and, contrary to all accepted traditions, Nawfal, the chief of Banu Bakr, chasing them in the sanctified area — where no blood should be shed — massacred his adversaries. [Ar-Raheeq Al-Makhtum, al-Mubarakpuri ]

Even after they had broken the truce, the Muslims still gave the pagans a chance to make amends, which they refused.



Quote:

When the aggrieved party sought justice from their Muslim allies, the Prophet, as their leader, demanded an immediate redress for not only violating the treaty but also slaying men allied to him in the sanctified area. Three demands were made, the acceptance of any one of them was imperative: 1. to pay blood money for the victims of Khuza‘ah 2.   to terminate their alliance with Banu Bakr; or 3. to consider the truce to have been nullified. [Ar-Raheeq Al-Makhtum, al-Mubarakpuri ]

falah wrote on May 26^th, 2012 at 9:57pm:

The Treaty of Hudaybiyyah was not broken by the Muslims but by the pagans:

Quote:

Raymond Ibrahim: "Islam's Doctrines of Deception" .......This concept is highlighted by the fact that, based on the ten year treaty of Hudaibiya, ratified between Muhammad and his Quraish opponents in Mecca, ten years is, theoretically, the maximum amount of time Muslims can be at peace with infidels. Based on Muhammad's example of breaking the treaty after two years, (by citing a Quraish infraction), the sole function of the "peace-treaty" (hudna) is to buy weakened Muslims time to regroup before going on the offensive once more. Incidentally, Muhammad is quoted in the Hadith saying, "If I take an oath and later find something else better, I do what is better and break my oath." Is this what former PLO leader and Nobel Peace Prize winner, Yasser Arafat meant when, after negotiating a peace treaty [Arafat was] criticized by Muslims as conceding too much to Israel, said in a mosque, "I see this agreement as being no more than the agreement signed between our Prophet Muhammad and the Quraish in Mecca"? What of Hamas, who on several occasions has made it clear that its ultimate aspiration is to see Israel destroyed. Under what context would it want to initiate a "temporary" peace with the Jewish state?......These are all clear instances of Muslims feigning friendliness simply in order to buy time to strengthen. Most recently, a new Islamic group associated with Hamas called Jaysh al-Umma (Islam's army), stated clearly, "Muslims all over the world are obliged to fight the Israelis and the infidels until only Islam rules the earth."

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/11/raymond-ibrahim-islams-doctrines-of-deception.html




A verbal agreement with a moslem, isn't worth the paper it is written on.

And Israel has learnt, over many years, that moslems will sue for 'peace' whenever they are weakened [or when they are losing in a conflict], but moslems always break their truces [and their 'peace' treaties], as soon as there is no advantage to moslems, in honouring them.

Even a formal treaty with a moslem entity, isn't worth the paper it is written on.

Google;
gaza truce, rockets continue


ISLAM = = treachery, and lies

Is that all you have Yadda? A Jewish-funded anti-Islam propaganda site is your source of information?

Did you read what I posted?

The Pagans violated the treaty of Hudaybiyyah. They violated it by killing people. If you think that massacring people is only a slight infraction, then it merely demonstrates the warped sense of reality that the Bible creates.

Is Avram a Mossad spy?

Bobby. wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 11:38am:

Is Avram a Mossad spy?

If I was political puppet should start to watch his front door.
Anti Semitic insults are not liked by Israelis.

But no i am not bobby.
Why would Mossad spy on Aussies?

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 12:16pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 11:38am: Is Avram a Mossad spy? If I was political puppet should start to watch his front door. Anti Semitic insults are not liked by Israelis. But no i am not bobby. Why would Mossad spy on Aussies?

Terrorists are not liked by civilized people
you are scum and you deserve the death penalty for your crimes against humanity or at least life in prison.

Israel is a scum terrorist state and deserves to be wiped off the map after the non terrorist citizens have been relocated

You would make threats wouldnt you because you cant defend yourself with words pussy

Terrorist jews are terrorists

My comments are not anti semitic they are anti terrorist and anti human rights violators.
You are a scum terrorist and Israel is a scum terrorist state.
I have nothing against the non terrorist people of Israel.
And I would be on Israel's side if they were in the other position.

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 12:16pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 11:38am: Is Avram a Mossad spy? If I was political puppet should start to watch his front door. Anti Semitic insults are not liked by Israelis. But no i am not bobby. Why would Mossad spy on Aussies?

That looks like a threat to me. Especially since you are the one calling him antisemitic.

SOB

Quote:

Israel is a scum terrorist state and deserves to be wiped off the map after the non terrorist citizens have been relocated

Where to? And how do you tell which are the 'non-terrorist citizens'?

freediver wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 12:51pm:

Quote: Israel is a scum terrorist state and deserves to be wiped off the map after the non terrorist citizens have been relocated Where to? And how do you tell which are the 'non-terrorist citizens'?

Just ask them. They will tell you what they think of everyone else. Easy to tell. And where to send them? How about gaza?

SOB

freediver wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 12:51pm:

Quote: Israel is a scum terrorist state and deserves to be wiped off the map after the non terrorist citizens have been relocated Where to? And how do you tell which are the 'non-terrorist citizens'?

Alaska
Non terrorist would be anyone who has not served in the terrorist forces

Little how you know of Israel.

If you call our IDF 'terror forces' - then do you realize that 90% of Israelis serve because of conscription?

Ones who do not serve and have exemptions are mentally insane and orthodox - and orthodoxes are likt eht settlers - more anti-Palestinian than every body.

I have had to restrain settlers from attacking Palestinians. But you would leave these people because they dont serve in IDF and instead ask all of us secular Israelis to leave??

Crazy crazy.

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 2:47pm:

Little how you know of Israel. If you call our IDF 'terror forces' - then do you realize that 90% of Israelis serve because of conscription? Ones who do not serve and have exemptions are mentally insane and orthodox - and orthodoxes are likt eht settlers - more anti-Palestinian than every body. I have had to restrain settlers from attacking Palestinians. But you would leave these people because they dont serve in IDF and instead ask all of us secular Israelis to leave?? Crazy crazy.

This is just further evidence, only a terrorist state would force people to serve in its terrorist forces.
And obviously like an apartheid terrorist state only the pure's would be exempt.

Once again kindly speaking to someone for something you would shoot another for is not a good example you should be listing to try and win an argument.

You are a terrorist

Your parents would be proud of you PP.

---

angeleyes wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 2:50pm:

Your parents would be proud of you PP.

Yes longy because I am the one killing innocent people

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 2:36pm:

freediver wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 12:51pm: Quote: Israel is a scum terrorist state and deserves to be wiped off the map after the non terrorist citizens have been relocated Where to? And how do you tell which are the 'non-terrorist citizens'? Alaska Non terrorist would be anyone who has not served in the terrorist forces

So that would be, just the children?

Quote:

If you call our IDF 'terror forces' - then do you realize that 90% of Israelis serve because of conscription?

Thats why I said to ask. Also you have a good point about the settlers but since they arent even IN israel they are obvious arent they.

The thing is. If it was israel making the decision they wouldn't evacuate anyone would they!

SOB

freediver wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 3:04pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 2:36pm: freediver wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 12:51pm: Quote: Israel is a scum terrorist state and deserves to be wiped off the map after the non terrorist citizens have been relocated Where to? And how do you tell which are the 'non-terrorist citizens'? Alaska Non terrorist would be anyone who has not served in the terrorist forces So that would be, just the children?

Well that would make sense, re-educate them as to why terrorism is bad so that something like Israel wont happen again.

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 3:07pm:

freediver wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 3:04pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 2:36pm: freediver wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 12:51pm: Quote: Israel is a scum terrorist state and deserves to be wiped off the map after the non terrorist citizens have been relocated Where to? And how do you tell which are the 'non-terrorist citizens'? Alaska Non terrorist would be anyone who has not served in the terrorist forces So that would be, just the children? Well that would make sense, re-educate them as to why terrorism is bad so that something like Israel wont happen again.

Sounds a lot like Islam. The only bit you left out was raping all the women.

Where are you coming from in all this Puppet? Is it all just jokes?

freediver wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 3:29pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 3:07pm: freediver wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 3:04pm: bobbythefap1 wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 2:36pm: freediver wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 12:51pm: Quote: Israel is a scum terrorist state and deserves to be wiped off the map after the non terrorist citizens have been relocated Where to? And how do you tell which are the 'non-terrorist citizens'? Alaska Non terrorist would be anyone who has not served in the terrorist forces So that would be, just the children? Well that would make sense, re-educate them as to why terrorism is bad so that something like Israel wont happen again. Sounds a lot like Islam. The only bit you left out was raping all the women. Where are you coming from in all this Puppet? Is it all just jokes?

Haha how does that sound like Islam?
Its western practice to incarcerate or execute the terrorists and leave the innocent alone/help them reestablish.

We can arrange for the church to do the raping if that would make you feel better

Hey look PP I found the rest of your goon family for you.

---

angeleyes wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 3:35pm:

Hey look PP I found the rest of your goon family for you.

So you make the same point again even tho I debunked it?
Uhh ok then

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 3:37pm:

angeleyes wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 3:35pm: Hey look PP I found the rest of your goon family for you. So you make the same point again even tho I debunked it? Uhh ok then

You are anti-semitic.
You have said anti-Jew comments on this forum - which has seen you banned for them.

Don't deny it.

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 3:38pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 3:37pm: angeleyes wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 3:35pm: Hey look PP I found the rest of your goon family for you. So you make the same point again even tho I debunked it? Uhh ok then You are anti-semitic. You have said anti-Jew comments on this forum - which has seen you banned for them. Don't deny it.

Anti Terrorist.
As I have stated I would support the jews if they were in the other position.

Dont deny that you are a terrorist.

You would make threats wouldnt you because you cant defend yourself with words pussy

You certainly can't defend yourself with words or force. You are a coward and disgusting b@stard.

angeleyes wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 3:35pm:

Hey look PP I found the rest of your goon family for you.

Angeleyes, the Liberal Party would have a hard time justifying that picture if it surfaced on your computer. The Labor Party would have a field day.

Try to be more careful in future, dear.

As I have stated I would support the jews if they were in the other position.


Yeah of course you would. Now you are a lying b@stard.

angeleyes wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 3:54pm:

You would make threats wouldnt you because you cant defend yourself with words pussy You certainly can't defend yourself with words or force. You are a coward and disgusting b@stard.

Such a coward that I need to use an alias right?
If you want me to ask you questions you cant answer it would be my pleasure, otherwise just shut up and continue being ignorant and deny reality elsewhere.
You are a terrorist supporter and you should be ashamed.

angeleyes wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 3:55pm:

As I have stated I would support the jews if they were in the other position. Yeah of course you would. Now you are a lying b@stard.

That's not very ladylike, dear. You'll find the CWA don't approve of that sort of language.

angeleyes wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 3:55pm:

As I have stated I would support the jews if they were in the other position. Yeah of course you would. Now you are a lying b@stard.

Right so now you are telling me what I think?
Come on you have a hard enough time disproving what I think

You are a terrorist supporter and you should be ashamed.


I am ashamed that you maybe an Australian.

Come on you have a hard enough time disproving what I think


So would you I should imagine.

Angeleyes, hasn't Matty got a fundraiser on this afternoon?

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 3:38pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 3:37pm: angeleyes wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 3:35pm: Hey look PP I found the rest of your goon family for you. So you make the same point again even tho I debunked it? Uhh ok then You are anti-semitic. You have said anti-Jew comments on this forum - which has seen you banned for them. Don't deny it.

He has done his time. He hasnt got banned again. ARe you trying to goad him into it so you dont have to talk to him anymore?

ISRAEL IS A TERRORIST ENTITY

SOB

angeleyes wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 4:01pm:

You are a terrorist supporter and you should be ashamed. I am ashamed that you maybe an Australian.

Yeah cause real Australians support terrorism?

angeleyes wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 4:01pm:

Come on you have a hard enough time disproving what I think So would you I should imagine.

Test me then I will debunk your entire existence.

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 12:16pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 11:38am: Is Avram a Mossad spy? If I was political puppet should start to watch his front door. Anti Semitic insults are not liked by Israelis. But no i am not bobby. Why would Mossad spy on Aussies?

Notice how he says 'by Israelis' cause he actually isn't one.

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 4:41pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 12:16pm: Bobby. wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 11:38am: Is Avram a Mossad spy? If I was political puppet should start to watch his front door. Anti Semitic insults are not liked by Israelis. But no i am not bobby. Why would Mossad spy on Aussies? Notice how he says 'by Israelis' cause he actually isn't one.

It is fairly obvious that Avram is just another of Freeliar's sockpuppets.

Actually this thread was supposed to be about avrams religious beliefs. I wanted to know if he is religious and if he follows the OT and believes in the OT. Do you avram? What are your religious beliefs?

Avram can you go here please?

SOB

Quote:

It is fairly obvious that Avram is just another of Freeliar's sockpuppets.

Heh he has a few!

SOB

This is a silly comment. I am one person.
One of worst times on here is from falah who defended Islamists who stoned to death a young girl.
That was so bad. He does not condemn them.

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 6:25pm:

This is a silly comment. I am one person. One of worst times on here is from falah who defended Islamists who stoned to death a young girl. That was so bad. He does not condemn them.

Yes cause everyone believes that 'avram'.
You defend blowing up entire apartment blocks full of innocent people including young girls. What more can I say

The character you are portraying is a terrorist scumbag

If this was my forum I promise you that you would be banned as I said to the moderators last time you were banned.

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 6:25pm:

This is a silly comment. I am one person. One of worst times on here is from falah who defended Islamists who stoned to death a young girl. That was so bad. He does not condemn them.

Hmm. Well I tried to change the subject but you want to keep on this one obviously. Falah has his own thread. THis is yours.

Well I cant say anymore because PP said it all.

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 5:20pm:

Actually this thread was supposed to be about avrams religious beliefs. I wanted to know if he is religious and if he follows the OT and believes in the OT. Do you avram? What are your religious beliefs? Avram can you go here please? SOB

I told you this very first post.
I am secular Jewish, child of one Israeli and one American parent.
I observe major Jewish religious but do not attend the temple regular.

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 6:36pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 5:20pm: Actually this thread was supposed to be about avrams religious beliefs. I wanted to know if he is religious and if he follows the OT and believes in the OT. Do you avram? What are your religious beliefs? Avram can you go here please? SOB I told you this very first post. I am secular Jewish, child of one Israeli and one American parent. I observe major Jewish religious but do not attend the temple regular.

Would you support Israel dropping a world ending nuke if need be because you know that god will save your people?

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 6:36pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 5:20pm: Actually this thread was supposed to be about avrams religious beliefs. I wanted to know if he is religious and if he follows the OT and believes in the OT. Do you avram? What are your religious beliefs? Avram can you go here please? SOB I told you this very first post. I am secular Jewish, child of one Israeli and one American parent. I observe major Jewish religious but do not attend the temple regular.

Oh you did too! I remember now.

What does secular jewish mean? That you dont attend the temple regular? What is major jewish religious? Is that the OT? Is the Torah the OT? I dont know.

What does your parentage have to do with it?

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 6:48pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 6:36pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 5:20pm: Actually this thread was supposed to be about avrams religious beliefs. I wanted to know if he is religious and if he follows the OT and believes in the OT. Do you avram? What are your religious beliefs? Avram can you go here please? SOB I told you this very first post. I am secular Jewish, child of one Israeli and one American parent. I observe major Jewish religious but do not attend the temple regular. Oh you did too! I remember now. What does secular jewish mean? That you dont attend the temple regular? What is major jewish religious? Is that the OT? Is the Torah the OT? I dont know. What does your parentage have to do with it? SOB

My parentage? Because he is born is Israel, I am born in Israel.
You say we should leave? This is our home.

I am religious but it does not run my life.
I observe Jewish teachings.

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 7:16pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 6:48pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 6:36pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 5:20pm: Actually this thread was supposed to be about avrams religious beliefs. I wanted to know if he is religious and if he follows the OT and believes in the OT. Do you avram? What are your religious beliefs? Avram can you go here please? SOB I told you this very first post. I am secular Jewish, child of one Israeli and one American parent. I observe major Jewish religious but do not attend the temple regular. Oh you did too! I remember now. What does secular jewish mean? That you dont attend the temple regular? What is major jewish religious? Is that the OT? Is the Torah the OT? I dont know. What does your parentage have to do with it? SOB My parentage? Because he is born is Israel, I am born in Israel. You say we should leave? This is our home. I am religious but it does not run my life. I observe Jewish teachings.

I never said you should leave. Why would you say that?

What are jewish teachings?

SOB

When people call for Israel to be removed. For the Jews to not be there.
You are saying to me and my parents to leave our home of birth.

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 7:37pm:

When people call for Israel to be removed. For the Jews to not be there. You are saying to me and my parents to leave our home of birth.

I never said that. I said israel needs to be stopped. From committing these atrocities. I said you need to get out of the west bank and gaza. I never said you should leave israel.

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 7:40pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 7:37pm: When people call for Israel to be removed. For the Jews to not be there. You are saying to me and my parents to leave our home of birth. I never said that. I said israel needs to be stopped. From committing these atrocities. I said you need to get out of the west bank and gaza. I never said you should leave israel. SOB

We are not in Gaza at all.
West Bank is majority under Palestinian control.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 7:40pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 7:37pm: When people call for Israel to be removed. For the Jews to not be there. You are saying to me and my parents to leave our home of birth. I never said that. I said israel needs to be stopped. From committing these atrocities. I said you need to get out of the west bank and gaza. I never said you should leave israel. SOB

Unfortunately Borg for many Muslims, including probably all of the ones lobbing rockets into Israel at every opportunity, the only solution is for the Jews to leave. You only have to look at what Australians like Puppet, Abu and Falah say to see the problem. They are the people Israel has to negotiate with, not you. Israel could make all sorts of agreements with reasonable people like you, but it won't stop the Palestinians attacking Israel with whatever they can get their hands on.

freediver wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 8:57pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 7:40pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 7:37pm: When people call for Israel to be removed. For the Jews to not be there. You are saying to me and my parents to leave our home of birth. I never said that. I said israel needs to be stopped. From committing these atrocities. I said you need to get out of the west bank and gaza. I never said you should leave israel. SOB Unfortunately Borg for many Muslims, including probably all of the ones lobbing rockets into Israel at every opportunity, the only solution is for the Jews to leave. You only have to look at what Australians like Puppet, Abu and Falah say to see the problem. They are the people Israel has to negotiate with, not you. Israel could make all sorts of agreements with reasonable people like you, but it won't stop the Palestinians attacking Israel with whatever they can get their hands on.

So for example if someone was to invade Australia would you be happy to compromise and let them take all the land, pushing us to small guarded communities or would you want to take it all back? Or at least have the majority back..

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 9:19pm:

freediver wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 8:57pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 7:40pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 7:37pm: When people call for Israel to be removed. For the Jews to not be there. You are saying to me and my parents to leave our home of birth. I never said that. I said israel needs to be stopped. From committing these atrocities. I said you need to get out of the west bank and gaza. I never said you should leave israel. SOB Unfortunately Borg for many Muslims, including probably all of the ones lobbing rockets into Israel at every opportunity, the only solution is for the Jews to leave. You only have to look at what Australians like Puppet, Abu and Falah say to see the problem. They are the people Israel has to negotiate with, not you. Israel could make all sorts of agreements with reasonable people like you, but it won't stop the Palestinians attacking Israel with whatever they can get their hands on. So for example if someone was to invade Australia would you be happy to compromise and let them take all the land, pushing us to small guarded communities or would you want to take it all back? Or at least have the majority back..

You do know that majority of west bank and all of Gaza is under Palestinian control?

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 9:26pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 9:19pm: freediver wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 8:57pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 7:40pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 7:37pm: When people call for Israel to be removed. For the Jews to not be there. You are saying to me and my parents to leave our home of birth. I never said that. I said israel needs to be stopped. From committing these atrocities. I said you need to get out of the west bank and gaza. I never said you should leave israel. SOB Unfortunately Borg for many Muslims, including probably all of the ones lobbing rockets into Israel at every opportunity, the only solution is for the Jews to leave. You only have to look at what Australians like Puppet, Abu and Falah say to see the problem. They are the people Israel has to negotiate with, not you. Israel could make all sorts of agreements with reasonable people like you, but it won't stop the Palestinians attacking Israel with whatever they can get their hands on. So for example if someone was to invade Australia would you be happy to compromise and let them take all the land, pushing us to small guarded communities or would you want to take it all back? Or at least have the majority back.. You do know that majority of west bank and all of Gaza is under Palestinian control?

Terrorist

Not an answer.

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 10:01pm:

Not an answer.

No legitimate question to answer

You said that it was for them to control most of the land.
They already do.

That is why they should stop their terrorism.

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 9:19pm:

freediver wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 8:57pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 7:40pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 7:37pm: When people call for Israel to be removed. For the Jews to not be there. You are saying to me and my parents to leave our home of birth. I never said that. I said israel needs to be stopped. From committing these atrocities. I said you need to get out of the west bank and gaza. I never said you should leave israel. SOB Unfortunately Borg for many Muslims, including probably all of the ones lobbing rockets into Israel at every opportunity, the only solution is for the Jews to leave. You only have to look at what Australians like Puppet, Abu and Falah say to see the problem. They are the people Israel has to negotiate with, not you. Israel could make all sorts of agreements with reasonable people like you, but it won't stop the Palestinians attacking Israel with whatever they can get their hands on. So for example if someone was to invade Australia would you be happy to compromise and let them take all the land, pushing us to small guarded communities or would you want to take it all back? Or at least have the majority back..

The Israelis did not invade. They were already there.

What pisses the Muslims off is that the Jews took control. The proper Islamic way for this to happen is for them to be enslaved, convert to Islam, buy their freedom, then work on regaining control. Abu is very proud of Islam's tradition on this.

freediver wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 8:57pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 7:40pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 7:37pm: When people call for Israel to be removed. For the Jews to not be there. You are saying to me and my parents to leave our home of birth. I never said that. I said israel needs to be stopped. From committing these atrocities. I said you need to get out of the west bank and gaza. I never said you should leave israel. SOB Unfortunately Borg for many Muslims, including probably all of the ones lobbing rockets into Israel at every opportunity, the only solution is for the Jews to leave. You only have to look at what Australians like Puppet, Abu and Falah say to see the problem. They are the people Israel has to negotiate with, not you. Israel could make all sorts of agreements with reasonable people like you, but it won't stop the Palestinians attacking Israel with whatever they can get their hands on.

in self defense. And because they are angry @ the oppression. If peace is ever finally negotiated its going to take @ least a generation for the anger to subside i reckon.

SOB

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 9:26pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 9:19pm: freediver wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 8:57pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 7:40pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 7:37pm: When people call for Israel to be removed. For the Jews to not be there. You are saying to me and my parents to leave our home of birth. I never said that. I said israel needs to be stopped. From committing these atrocities. I said you need to get out of the west bank and gaza. I never said you should leave israel. SOB Unfortunately Borg for many Muslims, including probably all of the ones lobbing rockets into Israel at every opportunity, the only solution is for the Jews to leave. You only have to look at what Australians like Puppet, Abu and Falah say to see the problem. They are the people Israel has to negotiate with, not you. Israel could make all sorts of agreements with reasonable people like you, but it won't stop the Palestinians attacking Israel with whatever they can get their hands on. So for example if someone was to invade Australia would you be happy to compromise and let them take all the land, pushing us to small guarded communities or would you want to take it all back? Or at least have the majority back.. You do know that majority of west bank and all of Gaza is under Palestinian control?

But not all.

SOB

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 10:08pm:

You said that it was for them to control most of the land. They already do. That is why they should stop their terrorism.

All of west bank. Thats reasonable.

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 28^th, 2012 at 8:34am:

freediver wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 8:57pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 7:40pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 7:37pm: When people call for Israel to be removed. For the Jews to not be there. You are saying to me and my parents to leave our home of birth. I never said that. I said israel needs to be stopped. From committing these atrocities. I said you need to get out of the west bank and gaza. I never said you should leave israel. SOB Unfortunately Borg for many Muslims, including probably all of the ones lobbing rockets into Israel at every opportunity, the only solution is for the Jews to leave. You only have to look at what Australians like Puppet, Abu and Falah say to see the problem. They are the people Israel has to negotiate with, not you. Israel could make all sorts of agreements with reasonable people like you, but it won't stop the Palestinians attacking Israel with whatever they can get their hands on. in self defense. And because they are angry @ the oppression. If peace is ever finally negotiated its going to take @ least a generation for the anger to subside i reckon. SOB

So you expect the Israelis to sign a peace treaty then put up with 30 years of rockets being fired from Palestine and not being able to do anything about it, in the naive hope that the Muslims feel better after that?

At what point do the Palestinians have to take some responsibility for their own actions?

Quote:

The Israelis did not invade. They were already there.

They are invading west bank. They do invade gaza every now and then.

SOB

Bobby. wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 11:38am:

Is Avram a Mossad spy?

Yes, he is!

Avram is here to spy on you bobby.

So my advice is, be very careful what you reveal in this forum.

Seriously!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!               :)))))))

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 12:21pm:

Terrorist jews are terrorists

Whereas, PoliticalPuppets' have demented psyche's.



Dictionary;
demented = =
1 suffering from dementia.
2 wild and irrational.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 27^th, 2012 at 5:20pm:

Actually this thread was supposed to be about avrams religious beliefs. I wanted to know if he is religious and if he follows the OT and believes in the OT. Do you avram? What are your religious beliefs? SOB

Me too.


Avram,

You said that you are a secular Jew.

Is the story of Moses parting the Red sea, just a fairy tale [is it untrue], for you, as a secular Jew ???




Here is the account Avram,

Exodus 14:21
And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the LORD caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided.
22  And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon the dry ground: and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left.
23  And the Egyptians pursued, and went in after them to the midst of the sea, even all Pharaoh's horses, his chariots, and his horsemen.
24  And it came to pass, that in the morning watch the LORD looked unto the host of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and of the cloud, and troubled the host of the Egyptians,
25  And took off their chariot wheels, that they drave them heavily: so that the Egyptians said, Let us flee from the face of Israel; for the LORD fighteth for them against the Egyptians.
26  And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand over the sea, that the waters may come again upon the Egyptians, upon their chariots, and upon their horsemen.
27  And Moses stretched forth his hand over the sea, and the sea returned to his strength when the morning appeared; and the Egyptians fled against it; and the LORD overthrew the Egyptians in the midst of the sea.
28  And the waters returned, and covered the chariots, and the horsemen, and all the host of Pharaoh that came into the sea after them; there remained not so much as one of them.
29  But the children of Israel walked upon dry land in the midst of the sea; and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left.
30  Thus the LORD saved Israel that day out of the hand of the Egyptians; and Israel saw the Egyptians dead upon the sea shore.
31  And Israel saw that great work which the LORD did upon the Egyptians: and the people feared the LORD, and believed the LORD, and his servant Moses.


This is this OT story just a 'fairy tale' to you Avram ???

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 28^th, 2012 at 8:36am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 10:08pm: You said that it was for them to control most of the land. They already do. That is why they should stop their terrorism. All of west bank. Thats reasonable. SOB

No.

That, is not reasonable.

You have totally lost 'perspective' on this issue.



The 'Palestinians' were given, >> ALL << of the 'East bank'.

The East bank, is teh 'Palestinian homeland'.

But they want the land which the Jews have too, coz that would only 'be fair'.
/sarc off



There is no peace with moslems.

There will >> NEVER << be peace with moslems.

Because moslems do not want peace.

Moslems want murder.



The Koran.....

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29


From ISLAMIC law texts, declaring how moslems may 'lawfully' treat those who are not moslems....

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/fus3_50.html#3.110

n.b. "Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."



The Hadith,
"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260





Moslems will get, what they have 'worked' for.

Ezek 35

We all do, we all will.         ;)

The Palestinians were given the east bank, what Jordan? Give us a break.

The palestinians are angry because of the way the jews are treating them. This is understandable. @ this point I am sure they will accept a fair deal but they arent being offered one.

I have not gone into the crap about the whole way israel was created and they threw the palestinains out (which is why they are called refugees) and I dont want to. I am talking about NOW and NOW they just want israel to stop being unreasonable.

SOB

Yadda wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 12:42am:

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 12:21pm: Terrorist jews are terrorists Whereas, PoliticalPuppets' have demented psyche's. Dictionary; demented = = 1 suffering from dementia. 2 wild and irrational.

Ok so I will come blow up your house and call you demented if you say one word.

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 10:24am:

Yadda wrote on May 29th, 2012 at 12:42am: bobbythefap1 wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 12:21pm: Terrorist jews are terrorists Whereas, PoliticalPuppets' have demented psyche's. Dictionary; demented = = 1 suffering from dementia. 2 wild and irrational. Ok so I will come blow up your house and call you demented if you say one word.

Oh boy. . . . .you know they arent going to get it

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 10:51am:

bobbythefap1 wrote on May 29th, 2012 at 10:24am: Yadda wrote on May 29th, 2012 at 12:42am: bobbythefap1 wrote on May 27th, 2012 at 12:21pm: Terrorist jews are terrorists Whereas, PoliticalPuppets' have demented psyche's. Dictionary; demented = = 1 suffering from dementia. 2 wild and irrational. Ok so I will come blow up your house and call you demented if you say one word. Oh boy. . . . .you know they arent going to get it SOB

Look at the map and the history book, numpty.

Look up 'Jordan'. What do you see?
A river and a country. Read up on the country.

Quote:

I am talking about NOW and NOW they just want israel to stop being unreasonable.

What is so unreasonable about demanding the rockets stop and the Palestinians accept Israel's right to exist?

freediver wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 12:44pm:

Quote: I am talking about NOW and NOW they just want israel to stop being unreasonable. What is so unreasonable about demanding the rockets stop and the Palestinians accept Israel's right to exist?

Whats so unreasonable about demanding they stop "settling" in west bank and stop bulldozing families and crops and wells? Whats unreasonable about demanding they stop unprovoked attacks on Gaza? How about they accept the palestinians right to exist?

SOB

Strange because from what I have only ever seen -

PoliticalPuppet has been obnoxious, spewed out racial hatred and attacked from the word go - with his obvious anger management problems.

In contrast Avram is hardly ever angered, if at all, does not attack and simply lists his views.
In fact, he comes across as a pretty decent bloke.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 12:51pm:

freediver wrote on May 29th, 2012 at 12:44pm: Quote: I am talking about NOW and NOW they just want israel to stop being unreasonable. What is so unreasonable about demanding the rockets stop and the Palestinians accept Israel's right to exist? Whats so unreasonable about demanding they stop "settling" in west bank and stop bulldozing families and crops and wells? Whats unreasonable about demanding they stop unprovoked attacks on Gaza? How about they accept the palestinians right to exist? SOB

Aside from the fact -

1) They have stopped building new settlements in the West Bank.
2) Handed Gaza to the Palestinians (who previously by the way didn't have self-determination and were ruled by an Egyptian occupier).

But don't let facts blur your anger.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 12:54pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 29th, 2012 at 12:51pm: freediver wrote on May 29th, 2012 at 12:44pm: Quote: I am talking about NOW and NOW they just want israel to stop being unreasonable. What is so unreasonable about demanding the rockets stop and the Palestinians accept Israel's right to exist? Whats so unreasonable about demanding they stop "settling" in west bank and stop bulldozing families and crops and wells? Whats unreasonable about demanding they stop unprovoked attacks on Gaza? How about they accept the palestinians right to exist? SOB Aside from the fact - 1) They have stopped building new settlements in the West Bank. 2) Handed Gaza to the Palestinians (who previously by the way didn't have self-determination and were ruled by an Egyptian occupier). But don't let facts blur your anger.

the settlements are still there and they still kill ppl and get away with it. They still destroy crops (see olive grove thread). How long will they "not build more" settlements for?

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 29th, 2012 at 12:54pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 29th, 2012 at 12:51pm: freediver wrote on May 29th, 2012 at 12:44pm: Quote: I am talking about NOW and NOW they just want israel to stop being unreasonable. What is so unreasonable about demanding the rockets stop and the Palestinians accept Israel's right to exist? Whats so unreasonable about demanding they stop "settling" in west bank and stop bulldozing families and crops and wells? Whats unreasonable about demanding they stop unprovoked attacks on Gaza? How about they accept the palestinians right to exist? SOB Aside from the fact - 1) They have stopped building new settlements in the West Bank. 2) Handed Gaza to the Palestinians (who previously by the way didn't have self-determination and were ruled by an Egyptian occupier). But don't let facts blur your anger. the settlements are still there and they still kill ppl and get away with it. They still destroy crops (see olive grove thread). How long will they "not build more" settlements for? SOB

The settlements are still there because they can't remove them.
There are hundreds of thousands of people living in them.

They've been clear from the get-go they are not moving them but have promised not to build more.
They have given Gaza to the Palestinians (Egypt never did) and given the most part of the West Bank to the Palestinians (Jordan never did).

And the response of these illiterate cretins?
To fire more rockets into Israel.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 1:50pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 29th, 2012 at 1:06pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 29th, 2012 at 12:54pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 29th, 2012 at 12:51pm: freediver wrote on May 29th, 2012 at 12:44pm: Quote: I am talking about NOW and NOW they just want israel to stop being unreasonable. What is so unreasonable about demanding the rockets stop and the Palestinians accept Israel's right to exist? Whats so unreasonable about demanding they stop "settling" in west bank and stop bulldozing families and crops and wells? Whats unreasonable about demanding they stop unprovoked attacks on Gaza? How about they accept the palestinians right to exist? SOB Aside from the fact - 1) They have stopped building new settlements in the West Bank. 2) Handed Gaza to the Palestinians (who previously by the way didn't have self-determination and were ruled by an Egyptian occupier). But don't let facts blur your anger. the settlements are still there and they still kill ppl and get away with it. They still destroy crops (see olive grove thread). How long will they "not build more" settlements for? SOB The settlements are still there because they can't remove them. There are hundreds of thousands of people living in them. They've been clear from the get-go they are not moving them but have promised not to build more. They have given Gaza to the Palestinians (Egypt never did) and given the most part of the West Bank to the Palestinians (Jordan never did). And the response of these illiterate cretins? To fire more rockets into Israel.

Heh. The rockets were prolly in response to something else. Like the shooting of paelstinians (see shooting thread) or the destruction of olive groves (see olive groves thread) or any number of other atrocities committed by israel.

The settlers are illegal and should leave. They dont belong there. If they want to become palestinians then fair enough do some deal with them but if they want to remain jews and live on palestinain land its wrong. They need to leave. Its not their land. They are terrorists anyway.

SOB