Should Australia have C.I.R.
Let's take control of our destiny. Politicians stand around like a
bunch of dills with no idea what to do. This is because hardly any of them have had a real job amongst people whose vote they crave.
It would be better to send them on holiday for a bit. I have a few ideas I'd like to put up like giving pollies a paycut, getting rid of directors , nationalising banks, water , power, compulsory alternative power.

Well?

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;DREFERENDUM ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

When was the last one of those that meant anything.

Why not switch to voting by delegable proxy? That way every bill is a referendum. And it saves creating a whole extra layer of bureaucracy to decide what should be on the referendum.

Oi!
My idea is better. >:(

we have arguably the most stable democracy in the world. id be loathe to change something that works so well in a world where democracy and parliaments are floundering. Id need a more convincing argument than anything here.

A lot of bills passed by CIR would require expenditure of public funds - could this be one way to get the budget into red?

nairbe wrote on Jun 6^th, 2012 at 9:46pm:

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;DREFERENDUM ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D When was the last one of those that meant anything.

Back when QLD voted to NOT have fluoride and howard made it illegal for councils to have referendums or states or somebody. Then we got fluoride anyway.

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 7:33am:

nairbe wrote on Jun 6th, 2012 at 9:46pm: ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;DREFERENDUM ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D When was the last one of those that meant anything. Back when QLD voted to NOT have fluoride and howard made it illegal for councils to have referendums or states or somebody. Then we got fluoride anyway. SOB

somebody has to llok after stupid QLDers including overriding their silly ideas.

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 7:50am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7th, 2012 at 7:33am: nairbe wrote on Jun 6th, 2012 at 9:46pm: ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;DREFERENDUM ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D When was the last one of those that meant anything. Back when QLD voted to NOT have fluoride and howard made it illegal for councils to have referendums or states or somebody. Then we got fluoride anyway. SOB somebody has to llok after stupid QLDers including overriding their silly ideas.

So what are you saying there? That referendums should be illegal or that fluoride is a good thing? Or both?

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 8:16am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 7th, 2012 at 7:50am: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7th, 2012 at 7:33am: nairbe wrote on Jun 6th, 2012 at 9:46pm: ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;DREFERENDUM ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D When was the last one of those that meant anything. Back when QLD voted to NOT have fluoride and howard made it illegal for councils to have referendums or states or somebody. Then we got fluoride anyway. SOB somebody has to llok after stupid QLDers including overriding their silly ideas. So what are you saying there? That referendums should be illegal or that fluoride is a good thing? Or both? SOB

more that people liek you shouldnt be permitted to choose your own destiny.

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 1:24pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7th, 2012 at 8:16am: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 7th, 2012 at 7:50am: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7th, 2012 at 7:33am: nairbe wrote on Jun 6th, 2012 at 9:46pm: ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;DREFERENDUM ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D When was the last one of those that meant anything. Back when QLD voted to NOT have fluoride and howard made it illegal for councils to have referendums or states or somebody. Then we got fluoride anyway. SOB somebody has to llok after stupid QLDers including overriding their silly ideas. So what are you saying there? That referendums should be illegal or that fluoride is a good thing? Or both? SOB more that people liek you shouldnt be permitted to choose your own destiny.

People like me huh? What are ppl like me? Would you like to be denied the right to a referendum?

SOB

Only if votes were proportional to tax paid..... :D

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 1:34pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 7th, 2012 at 1:24pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7th, 2012 at 8:16am: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 7th, 2012 at 7:50am: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7th, 2012 at 7:33am: nairbe wrote on Jun 6th, 2012 at 9:46pm: ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;DREFERENDUM ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D When was the last one of those that meant anything. Back when QLD voted to NOT have fluoride and howard made it illegal for councils to have referendums or states or somebody. Then we got fluoride anyway. SOB somebody has to llok after stupid QLDers including overriding their silly ideas. So what are you saying there? That referendums should be illegal or that fluoride is a good thing? Or both? SOB more that people liek you shouldnt be permitted to choose your own destiny. People like me huh? What are ppl like me? Would you like to be denied the right to a referendum? SOB

you might gain some credibility if you actually detailed (with proof) these idiotic claims. You've made a lot of them in the past and been totally wrong most of the time and you are once again. Quite simply  - a referendum is a CONSTITUTIONAL issue which no govt dan ban or remove.

You explain what happened then. In your own words.

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 6:07pm:

You explain what happened then. In your own words. SOB

sigh... thats not how this works. You made a nebulous, barely coherent claim which i reject as having NOT happened. THAT is my explanation. Now if you wish to make an actual detailed statement of events then we can discuss it. But at the moment we seem to be relying on your 'memory' of events which may or may not have happened and for which you are disturbingly light on in the detail deparment.

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 6:20pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7th, 2012 at 6:07pm: You explain what happened then. In your own words. SOB sigh... thats not how this works. You made a nebulous, barely coherent claim which i reject as having NOT happened. THAT is my explanation. Now if you wish to make an actual detailed statement of events then we can discuss it. But at the moment we seem to be relying on your 'memory' of events which may or may not have happened and for which you are disturbingly light on in the detail deparment.

No. I didnt make a claim. I said something happened and i wasnt sure what. There was a referendum and ppl in qld rejected fluoride then something happened and bligh (if it was bligh - no i think it was that other one) put it through anyway with no further referendums. Howard did something make something illegal or something I dont remember what. Maybe you do.

you keep doing this. Your reading comprehension isnt very good is it.

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 6:30pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 7th, 2012 at 6:20pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7th, 2012 at 6:07pm: You explain what happened then. In your own words. SOB sigh... thats not how this works. You made a nebulous, barely coherent claim which i reject as having NOT happened. THAT is my explanation. Now if you wish to make an actual detailed statement of events then we can discuss it. But at the moment we seem to be relying on your 'memory' of events which may or may not have happened and for which you are disturbingly light on in the detail deparment. No. I didnt make a claim. I said something happened and i wasnt sure what. There was a referendum and ppl in qld rejected fluoride then something happened and bligh (if it was bligh - no i think it was that other one) put it through anyway with no further referendums. Howard did something make something illegal or something I dont remember what. Maybe you do. you keep doing this. Your reading comprehension isnt very good is it. SOB

talking of comprehension difficulties... you come on with a dithering comment about Howard and flouride and then you post the above which is... a dithering comment where you claim you have no idea at all what you are talking about.

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 6:41pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7th, 2012 at 6:30pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 7th, 2012 at 6:20pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7th, 2012 at 6:07pm: You explain what happened then. In your own words. SOB sigh... thats not how this works. You made a nebulous, barely coherent claim which i reject as having NOT happened. THAT is my explanation. Now if you wish to make an actual detailed statement of events then we can discuss it. But at the moment we seem to be relying on your 'memory' of events which may or may not have happened and for which you are disturbingly light on in the detail deparment. No. I didnt make a claim. I said something happened and i wasnt sure what. There was a referendum and ppl in qld rejected fluoride then something happened and bligh (if it was bligh - no i think it was that other one) put it through anyway with no further referendums. Howard did something make something illegal or something I dont remember what. Maybe you do. you keep doing this. Your reading comprehension isnt very good is it. SOB talking of comprehension difficulties... you come on with a dithering comment about Howard and flouride and then you post the above which is... a dithering comment where you claim you have no idea at all what you are talking about.

lol. I cant help it if your memory is worse than mine.

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 6:45pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 7th, 2012 at 6:41pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7th, 2012 at 6:30pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 7th, 2012 at 6:20pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7th, 2012 at 6:07pm: You explain what happened then. In your own words. SOB sigh... thats not how this works. You made a nebulous, barely coherent claim which i reject as having NOT happened. THAT is my explanation. Now if you wish to make an actual detailed statement of events then we can discuss it. But at the moment we seem to be relying on your 'memory' of events which may or may not have happened and for which you are disturbingly light on in the detail deparment. No. I didnt make a claim. I said something happened and i wasnt sure what. There was a referendum and ppl in qld rejected fluoride then something happened and bligh (if it was bligh - no i think it was that other one) put it through anyway with no further referendums. Howard did something make something illegal or something I dont remember what. Maybe you do. you keep doing this. Your reading comprehension isnt very good is it. SOB talking of comprehension difficulties... you come on with a dithering comment about Howard and flouride and then you post the above which is... a dithering comment where you claim you have no idea at all what you are talking about. lol. I cant help it if your memory is worse than mine. SOB

It aint me dredging silt up from the back of my memory and throwing it onthe ground and pretending there is something there.

I think you are having a 80+ senior moment. there is a reason we have google. Why dont you try it.

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 6:49pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7th, 2012 at 6:45pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 7th, 2012 at 6:41pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7th, 2012 at 6:30pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 7th, 2012 at 6:20pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7th, 2012 at 6:07pm: You explain what happened then. In your own words. SOB sigh... thats not how this works. You made a nebulous, barely coherent claim which i reject as having NOT happened. THAT is my explanation. Now if you wish to make an actual detailed statement of events then we can discuss it. But at the moment we seem to be relying on your 'memory' of events which may or may not have happened and for which you are disturbingly light on in the detail deparment. No. I didnt make a claim. I said something happened and i wasnt sure what. There was a referendum and ppl in qld rejected fluoride then something happened and bligh (if it was bligh - no i think it was that other one) put it through anyway with no further referendums. Howard did something make something illegal or something I dont remember what. Maybe you do. you keep doing this. Your reading comprehension isnt very good is it. SOB talking of comprehension difficulties... you come on with a dithering comment about Howard and flouride and then you post the above which is... a dithering comment where you claim you have no idea at all what you are talking about. lol. I cant help it if your memory is worse than mine. SOB It aint me dredging silt up from the back of my memory and throwing it onthe ground and pretending there is something there. I think you are having a 80+ senior moment. there is a reason we have google. Why dont you try it.

Nah. Learned long ago its not worth it for you. Your opinion would have to matter for you to be able to insult me. I expect most others here remember the incident. Certainly anyone in queensland would. Its not worth it because its just another of your strawmen.

SOB

Ok..back on topic, as a younger fella I was all for Citizen Initiated Referendums but these days I reckon they are completely stupid.
We elect govts to run the country for 3 yrs and we should just let them get on with it, love it or loath it.
There are plenty of times legislation has ticked me off but in the long run it turned out best for the country so I realise these days that govts are not there to be popular, they are there to govern.
The answer is NO to CIR's  :)

Spot, if you have no idea what actually happened, why did you bring it up?

freediver wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 6:56pm:

Spot, if you have no idea what actually happened, why did you bring it up?

im not scrolling back this time of night to see what it was but it was prolly not even the point. something happened it referendums. Who cares. Maybe in the morning ill look it up but the way you idiots are acting i dont see any reason to bother with you. It was just part of another point.

SOB

Do you back up all of your points with other points that you know nothing about and which disappear into thin air as soon as people question you on them?

freediver wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 7:07pm:

Do you back up all of your points with other points that you know nothing about and which disappear into thin air as soon as people question you on them?

Only time anything disappears into thin air is when you take the quotes out. It was a strawman by your sock. What does it matter? QLD now has fluoride against the ppls wishes. No referendums anymore. That was the point. I didnt even claim to know how it happened just that it did happen. If you think it didnt happen then come to QLD and have a drink of water.

SOB

So you do know, but you don't 'actually' know?

Is your only point that QLD has flouridated water, and you are making no claims about how they got there?

freediver wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 6:56pm:

Spot, if you have no idea what actually happened, why did you bring it up?

My point exactly. How can you complain about an event you cant remember and have no idea what happened?

adelcrow wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 6:56pm:

Ok..back on topic, as a younger fella I was all for Citizen Initiated Referendums but these days I reckon they are completely stupid. We elect govts to run the country for 3 yrs and we should just let them get on with it, love it or loath it. There are plenty of times legislation has ticked me off but in the long run it turned out best for the country so I realise these days that govts are not there to be popular, they are there to govern. The answer is NO to CIR's  :)

Generally I agree. We choose MPs to govern so let them. It would however be nice if they took the truly major policies to elections and then followed thru. it is failure of that principle that leads to CIR. And there is still the principle that most people are idiots. Do you really want them voting on policy???

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 7^th, 2012 at 7:25pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 7th, 2012 at 7:07pm: Do you back up all of your points with other points that you know nothing about and which disappear into thin air as soon as people question you on them? Only time anything disappears into thin air is when you take the quotes out. It was a strawman by your sock. What does it matter? QLD now has fluoride against the ppls wishes. No referendums anymore. That was the point. I didnt even claim to know how it happened just that it did happen. If you think it didnt happen then come to QLD and have a drink of water. SOB

and I thought your private school funding 'argument' was obtuse. This time we cant even worl out what point you are referring to or if you even know yourself!

you friggin assholes. I told you last night I didnt have time to nitpick @ some lil point. Heres the friggin links go read it yourselves.

Basically there was a referendum in around 1998 or 1999 and ppl of QLD voted against fluoridation. Bligh went ahead and put it in anyway without a referendum some years later.

Here is where a referendum was needed
http://www.thenhf.com/article.php?id=1263

Heres a PDF on the issue
www.qawf.org/UploadFiles/file/REFERENDUM_WHY_WE_SHOUD_HAVE-THREE.pdf

I cant load this site in my browser but it says its the rejection in 1999 of the referendum - if its not look for it in google yourself
http://wn.com/Australasian_Federal_Convention

My point through all this is that referendums arent worth a toss. Theres no point in them because they are ignored if the pollies dont agree with them. Of course all this crap about QLd and the fluoride was a strawman by you assholes.

You friggin assholes remember this perfectly well and just wanted me to look it all up for you. That is AFTER you went back and saw that I didnt actually make any claim.

http://soxkat.com/crap/MSN/hussy.gif

SOB

Quote:

you friggin assholes. I told you last night I didnt have time to nitpick @ some lil point.

Well then stop nitpicking at some little point. If you just admitted it when you were wrong then people wouldn't keep criticising what you post. If you can't back up your claim, don't use it as evidence.

freediver wrote on Jun 8^th, 2012 at 7:45pm:

Quote: you friggin assholes. I told you last night I didnt have time to nitpick @ some lil point. Well then stop nitpicking at some little point. If you just admitted it when you were wrong then people wouldn't keep criticising what you post. If you can't back up your claim, don't use it as evidence.

I wasnt wrong when i dint make a claim freeliar. Now i know why they call you that.

SOB

Did you make this claim?


Quote:

Back when QLD voted to NOT have fluoride and howard made it illegal for councils to have referendums or states or somebody. Then we got fluoride anyway.

freediver wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 9:00am:

Did you make this claim? Quote: Back when QLD voted to NOT have fluoride and howard made it illegal for councils to have referendums or states or somebody. Then we got fluoride anyway.

Howard or states or somebody. It was somebody. I gave you links. It was a strawman by someone else and you jumped on it just to pick @ me. You are dishonest.

SOB

Oi!
Can you two stop rabbiting on to each other.
This is my post go somewhere else! >:(

Well the question is who would not want citizen initiated referendums in a so-called democracy and why not?

SOB

How can you say it is a strawman if you brought it up yourself?

freediver wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 8:36am:

How can you say it is a strawman if you brought it up yourself?

Lol. It was a small component of a larger point. Do you even know what a strawman is? You do. You do it ALL the time. you are even going to try to use the strawman as a strawman arent you.

SOB

Quote:

Lol. It was a small component of a larger point.

No it wasn't. It was the extent of your first post. You couldn't even be bothered making whatever point it is you wanted to make.

freediver wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 9:09am:

Quote: Lol. It was a small component of a larger point. No it wasn't. It was the extent of your first post. You couldn't even be bothered making whatever point it is you wanted to make.

Scroll back. Not only did i provide links to the stupid strawman but i made my "point" and labelled it "my point". If you cant be bothered reading it . . . . piss off

Or is your only goal here to distract the topic for some reason? dont like it? Disagree with it? Hmmmm? Do you not like citizen initiated referendums?

SOB

You only explained what point you were trying to make after people 'pestered' you about it. Otherwise it would have been nothing more than a clearly false statement with no context.

freediver wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 9:37am:

You only explained what point you were trying to make after people 'pestered' you about it. Otherwise it would have been nothing more than a clearly false statement with no context.

Liar.

SOB

Oi! >:(

Yes there should be citizen initiated referendums IF the govt is made to abide by the results. Otherwise whats the point?

SOB