Ms Gillard also predicted the carbon tax will never be repealed even if Tony Abbott becomes prime minister.

Asked if she would "never, ever" move to relieve community concern by reducing the $23 per tonne carbon price or moving to an emissions trading scheme faster she said: "Oh, it's done. The legislation is the legislation and it's done.

"And I actually think if you try to imagine six months in to carbon pricing, what will people be experiencing and thinking then? They'll have their tax cuts, so their pay packet will be different ... many working women won't be paying tax at all any more and many (will be) seeing tax cuts like $500."


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/julia-gillards-swipe-at-kevin-rudd-being-leader-isnt-always-about-being-the-smartest/story-e6freuy9-1226389989799

Humanity will prevail over the New World Order sadists and scientific dictatorship.  The carbon tax will fall, the global economy will fall, humanity will prevail over the killers.:P

Carbon tax repeal not so easy

Minister for Mental Health and Ageing, Mark Butler, has pointed out, promises to repeal complicated laws are difficult to pull off.

''Well, we tried rollback on the GST; it didn't work. This is the mother of all rollback campaigns,'' Butler told Q&A on ABC television this week.

Deutsche Bank has looked into the Coalition's promise to repeal the carbon tax and said it might not happen until April 2014 - nearly two years after the legislation takes effect in July this year.

''Each step in the constitutional process takes time, and in practice, it could take eight to 14 months for the repeal bills to pass, with risks of further delay at each stage of that process,'' research analyst Tim Jordan wrote in a report released yesterday.

''On that timetable, the earliest a repeal bill could pass after an August 2013 election would be April 2014, 22 months after the carbon price comes into force.''

Assuming the Coalition wins the next election but is not granted control of the upper house, Labor and the Greens are unlikely to repeal the price on carbon, leaving Abbott with the option of calling a ''double dissolution'' - or fresh election on all seats of Parliament. If the double-dissolution election failed to give the Coalition control of both houses of Parliament, it could call a ''joint sitting'' to pass the contested legislation, provided it had a majority of seats in the two houses combined.

But whether this is the ideal outcome is another issue. Mr Jordan said abandoning a market mechanism for reducing emissions would ''only provide a temporary reprieve for major emitters''.

''The carbon price is likely to have a modest impact on most listed emitters: most high-carbon firms in trade-exposed sectors will receive free units (and in the case of steel makers, cash grants) to offset the impact; resources companies face a small impact relative to earnings; airlines will pass on the cost in ticket prices; and utilities are likely to recover most of their additional costs through higher electricity prices,'' he wrote.

Labor and the Coalition have a bipartisan commitment to cut emissions by 5 per cent below 2000 levels by 2020.

Mr Jordan told BusinessDay that this commitment would still stand if the carbon tax was repealed and would probably be met through state-based or ad hoc programs.

http://www.businessday.com.au/business/carbon-tax-repeal-not-so-easy-20120508-1yavn.html

Abbott has dug a big hole over ‘disastrous’ carbon tax

The Opposition’s unrelenting attack on the Government over carbon pricing has been simple and devastatingly effective. But Tony Abbott probably should have told his colleagues to hold off purchasing shares in an industry he has predicted will be shattered.

One of the Opposition Leader’s favourite strategies is to visit a family-run store, or a factory, or a pharmacy or a shopping centre. He’s been to manufacturing sites and trucking businesses, greengrocers – and, of course, mining sites - to smile, shake hands with workers, then talk about how much they’re all going to suffer under a carbon tax.

Meanwhile, it seems a significant portion of his party has been off buying shares in mining. Which tends to show some sort of confidence in the future of the sector.

At least 34 Opposition members or their partners have invested in mining, as their leader has travelled the country warning the tax would be a wrecking ball generally, disastrous for mining, and death to the coal industry.

Climate Change Minister Greg Combet told Parliament yesterday:

(S)ince the carbon price was announced last February, and the start of the opposition leader’s people’s revolt started, many coalition MPs have actually bought shares in the industry. Now, the member for Wentworth is amongst them, but we would respect that because he knows the campaign run by the opposition leader is complete and utter rubbish, nonsense, false, a fraud and a fabrication.


But it does include the members for Brisbane, Flynn, Stirling, Fadden, Bennelong and Kooyong. Not only that, when you have a look at the register, all up about 30 per cent of the members of the Coalition are investors in the minerals industry.


Publicly, their leader talks mining stocks down; privately, they snap up the investments. There might be a little insider trading strategy going on, but it demonstrates hypocrisy. If there were a TV reality show, Australia’s Greatest Hypocrites, they would be the winners.

It’s not new news that the Coalition has been investing in mining – in March News.com.au named names and revealed some of the details.

But 34 is a substantial number of people who don’t believe their own leader’s hype.

As though we needed any more proof that politics is more about posturing and fear mongering than policy.

When the carbon tax comes in on July 1, it will have a range of impacts. It will help some industries. It will hinder others. If the Government’s figures are correct, many Australians will benefit from the related compensation. Many won’t.

While carbon pricing is lauded as the most effective way to change behaviour and start to have an impact on climate change, it’s still somewhat of a gamble whether this particular model will work – and it’s really unclear what will happen when Mr Abbott tries to rescind it. He has promised: “I will give the remainder of my political life, however long I have left, to beating the carbon tax.”

And having seen the irreparable damage done to Prime Minister Julia Gillard’s career prospects by her carbon tax backflip, you can guarantee he will go to extreme lengths to keep his own carbon promise.

What he needs to do now, though, is inject a little more reality into his predictions that the sky will fall in on mining. He has used the wedge very effectively, but is now ramming it in too far and it could all split apart on him.

He will be all too easily proven wrong, not only by his own colleagues’ disbelief, but when the world is still standing after July 1.

Mr Combet also said yesterday: “It reminds you a bit of the old Lucky Starr song from the 1960s, I’ve Been Everywhere. You know, ‘Cabramatta, Parramatta, Wangaratta, Coolangatta’ - but the punchline is, ‘everywhere is doomed, man’.

He was clearly feeling quite jovial about the results of his research into the House of Representatives’ Register of Members’ Interests.

If I were Mr Abbott now, I would be furiously going through that register and working out how many Labor MPs have not bought shares in mining companies. And maybe toning down the prophecies of doom.

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/abbott-has-dug-a-big-hole-over-disastrous-carbon-tax/

Another lie by our lying PM. Abbott is definitely going to be able to repeal the carbon tax and if/when she loses the next election, she should support legislation (if she is still ALP Leader) as the Coalition did with changes to WorhChoices. Also, the tax cuts will do next to nothing to offset the effect of a higher cost of living under the carbon tax.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 7:15am:

Another lie by our lying PM. Abbott is definitely going to be able to repeal the carbon tax and if/when she loses the next election, she should support legislation (if she is still ALP Leader) as the Coalition did with changes to WorhChoices. Also, the tax cuts will do next to nothing to offset the effect of a higher cost of living under the carbon tax.

Since you are so sure of this abbot repeal line ... how much will the coalition pay industry compensation?

Also the carbon levy, if Abbott rips the compensation and wage rises and tax cuts from everybody, how will he remove the carbon cost already within pricing.

Business will just pocket the extra profit.

So by repealing, all Abbott wants to do is force up the cost of living for everyone.

____ wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 7:43am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 7:15am: Another lie by our lying PM. Abbott is definitely going to be able to repeal the carbon tax and if/when she loses the next election, she should support legislation (if she is still ALP Leader) as the Coalition did with changes to WorhChoices. Also, the tax cuts will do next to nothing to offset the effect of a higher cost of living under the carbon tax. Since you are so sure of this abbot repeal line ... how much will the coalition pay industry compensation? Also the carbon levy, if Abbott rips the compensation and wage rises and tax cuts from everybody, how will he remove the carbon cost already within pricing. Business will just pocket the extra profit. So by repealing, all Abbott wants to do is force up the cost of living for everyone.

Ummm, why will the Coalition need to PAY compensation to industry that does not WANT the carbon tax and would be BETTER OFF without the carbon tax? You truly are strange!

If we couldn't believe her when she said "There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead"

Then why is this any more believable?

Greens will try to hang on to ANY hope but the Carbon Tax will go!!!

Bob Brown has abandoned his little penguins so will Gillard

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 8:46am:

____ wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 7:43am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 7:15am: Another lie by our lying PM. Abbott is definitely going to be able to repeal the carbon tax and if/when she loses the next election, she should support legislation (if she is still ALP Leader) as the Coalition did with changes to WorhChoices. Also, the tax cuts will do next to nothing to offset the effect of a higher cost of living under the carbon tax. Since you are so sure of this abbot repeal line ... how much will the coalition pay industry compensation? Also the carbon levy, if Abbott rips the compensation and wage rises and tax cuts from everybody, how will he remove the carbon cost already within pricing. Business will just pocket the extra profit. So by repealing, all Abbott wants to do is force up the cost of living for everyone. Ummm, why will the Coalition need to PAY compensation to industry that does not WANT the carbon tax and would be BETTER OFF without the carbon tax? You truly are strange!

The expert explained that the legislation defined the carbon units created under the law as a unit of personal property, which would make it harder for future national leaders to repeal the carbon tax law without compensation.

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/232918/20111018/expert-warns-carbon-tax-repeal-would-cost-millions.htm



Don't tell me the conservatives are blindly follow abbott without using their brain !

Maqqa wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 9:09am:

If we couldn't believe her when she said "There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead" Then why is this any more believable? Greens will try to hang on to ANY hope but the Carbon Tax will go!!! Bob Brown has abandoned his little penguins so will Gillard

Bob Brown still supports a carbon levy ... unless you have information and are holding out on us?

Abbott will NEVER repeal the carbon tax .... the LIB party will replace him before he even tries and then claim that it was Abbotts agenda and the new leader has a different agenda therefore no broken promises .. blah blah blah .. they've got it all worked out

____ wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 9:38am:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:09am: If we couldn't believe her when she said "There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead" Then why is this any more believable? Greens will try to hang on to ANY hope but the Carbon Tax will go!!! Bob Brown has abandoned his little penguins so will Gillard Bob Brown still supports a carbon levy ... unless you have information and are holding out on us?

After the next election does he have a vote?

NO!!!

Brown has abandoned his little penguins - suck it up princess

John Smith wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 9:41am:

Abbott will NEVER repeal the carbon tax .... the LIB party will replace him before he even tries and then claim that it was Abbotts agenda and the new leader has a different agenda therefore no broken promises .. blah blah blah .. they've got it all worked out

As a leftie you'd know that!!

Maqqa wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 9:43am:

John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:41am: Abbott will NEVER repeal the carbon tax .... the LIB party will replace him before he even tries and then claim that it was Abbotts agenda and the new leader has a different agenda therefore no broken promises .. blah blah blah .. they've got it all worked out As a leftie you'd know that!!

As a right wing nutjob you had every opportunity to refute my claim ... but you didn't .... speaks volumes ....

John Smith wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 9:47am:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:43am: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:41am: Abbott will NEVER repeal the carbon tax .... the LIB party will replace him before he even tries and then claim that it was Abbotts agenda and the new leader has a different agenda therefore no broken promises .. blah blah blah .. they've got it all worked out As a leftie you'd know that!! As a right wing nutjob you had every opportunity to refute my claim ... but you didn't .... speaks volumes ....

I don't need to and I have confronted you with demands for proof the other day which you failed to provide. That speaks volumes

Back under your rock boy!!

Maqqa wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 9:43am:

____ wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:38am: Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:09am: If we couldn't believe her when she said "There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead" Then why is this any more believable? Greens will try to hang on to ANY hope but the Carbon Tax will go!!! Bob Brown has abandoned his little penguins so will Gillard Bob Brown still supports a carbon levy ... unless you have information and are holding out on us? After the next election does he have a vote? NO!!! Brown has abandoned his little penguins - suck it up princess

And Christine Milne has taken over the leadership

Peter Whish-Wilson is Senator.

Now back to the topic

Carbon Levy Repealing requires compensation to industry.

How much has Abbott forecasted the government will pay to industry and how will it be paid for?


Quote:

The expert explained that the legislation defined the carbon units created under the law as a unit of personal property, which would make it harder for future national leaders to repeal the carbon tax law without compensation. http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/232918/20111018/expert-warns-carbon-tax-repeal-would-cost-millions.htm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 7:15am:

Another lie by our lying PM. Abbott is definitely going to be able to repeal the carbon tax and if/when she loses the next election, she should support legislation (if she is still ALP Leader) as the Coalition did with changes to WorhChoices. Also, the tax cuts will do next to nothing to offset the effect of a higher cost of living under the carbon tax.

So when that higher cost of living has come into effect AND Abbott repeals the carbon tax - how will he reduce the cost of living? It's a simple question. It deserves an answer.

Gist wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 9:50am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 7:15am: Another lie by our lying PM. Abbott is definitely going to be able to repeal the carbon tax and if/when she loses the next election, she should support legislation (if she is still ALP Leader) as the Coalition did with changes to WorhChoices. Also, the tax cuts will do next to nothing to offset the effect of a higher cost of living under the carbon tax. So when that higher cost of living has come into effect AND Abbott repeals the carbon tax - how will he reduce the cost of living? It's a simple question. It deserves an answer.

You are as moronic as Greens or you are deliberately trying to mix two unrelated issue

Cost of living generally increases every year i.e. the CPI.

The Carbon Tax is an added increase on top of the normal increases

The lefties are trying to imply the Carbon Tax are the same as normal increases when it's not.

Why would you do that?

____ wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 9:49am:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:43am: ____ wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:38am: Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:09am: If we couldn't believe her when she said "There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead" Then why is this any more believable? Greens will try to hang on to ANY hope but the Carbon Tax will go!!! Bob Brown has abandoned his little penguins so will Gillard Bob Brown still supports a carbon levy ... unless you have information and are holding out on us? After the next election does he have a vote? NO!!! Brown has abandoned his little penguins - suck it up princess And Christine Milne has taken over the leadership Peter Whish-Wilson is Senator. Now back to the topic Carbon Levy Repealing requires compensation to industry. How much has Abbott forecasted the government will pay to industry and how will it be paid for? Quote: The expert explained that the legislation defined the carbon units created under the law as a unit of personal property, which would make it harder for future national leaders to repeal the carbon tax law without compensation. http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/232918/20111018/expert-warns-carbon-tax-repeal-would-cost-millions.htm

Brown has abandoned you and you are panicking.

The Carbon Tax will be repealed so suck it up princess

Maqqa wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 9:49am:

John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:47am: Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:43am: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:41am: Abbott will NEVER repeal the carbon tax .... the LIB party will replace him before he even tries and then claim that it was Abbotts agenda and the new leader has a different agenda therefore no broken promises .. blah blah blah .. they've got it all worked out As a leftie you'd know that!! As a right wing nutjob you had every opportunity to refute my claim ... but you didn't .... speaks volumes .... I don't need to and I have confronted you with demands for proof the other day which you failed to provide. That speaks volumes Back under your rock boy!!

Have you taken a stupid pill today? You want proof you'll just have to wait  ... if Abbott repeals the carbon tax, you can say I was wrong ... the only rocks are in your head ... whats the matter, are you upset that Abbott will never be PM? ... 

John Smith wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 9:57am:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:49am: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:47am: Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:43am: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:41am: Abbott will NEVER repeal the carbon tax .... the LIB party will replace him before he even tries and then claim that it was Abbotts agenda and the new leader has a different agenda therefore no broken promises .. blah blah blah .. they've got it all worked out As a leftie you'd know that!! As a right wing nutjob you had every opportunity to refute my claim ... but you didn't .... speaks volumes .... I don't need to and I have confronted you with demands for proof the other day which you failed to provide. That speaks volumes Back under your rock boy!! Have you taken a stupid pill today? You want proof you'll just have to wait  ... if Abbott repeals the carbon tax, you can say I was wrong ... the only rocks are in your head ... whats the matter, are you upset that Abbott will never be PM? ...

Doesn't stop Gillard making the claims it won't happen.

The Opposition’s unrelenting attack on the Government over carbon pricing has been simple and devastatingly effective. But Tony Abbott probably should have told his colleagues to hold off purchasing shares in an industry he has predicted will be shattered.



I do go along with that.. but we all know it isnt the industry that will be shattered..

mining will survive any idiot knows that... its the rest of our manufacturing . steel industry refining.car manufacturing..everything else will be affected by this CARBON TAX of $23

n ot only are we basically alone..with CARBON TAX.....I see Spain has now bit the bullet!!!!! but we have this enormous price..

and as we are watching more and more business leave the country  or go under..

their first report on what was it $8bn..TAX recovered that they were sharing with the whole country..[ I believe that too has been revised]
will also need revising..

denial denial denial.. live in it all you like..but this TAX will/is changing this country for ever...


I am not in the least convinced for the better.

Maqqa wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 9:54am:

____ wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:49am: Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:43am: ____ wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:38am: Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:09am: If we couldn't believe her when she said "There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead" Then why is this any more believable? Greens will try to hang on to ANY hope but the Carbon Tax will go!!! Bob Brown has abandoned his little penguins so will Gillard Bob Brown still supports a carbon levy ... unless you have information and are holding out on us? After the next election does he have a vote? NO!!! Brown has abandoned his little penguins - suck it up princess And Christine Milne has taken over the leadership Peter Whish-Wilson is Senator. Now back to the topic Carbon Levy Repealing requires compensation to industry. How much has Abbott forecasted the government will pay to industry and how will it be paid for? Quote: The expert explained that the legislation defined the carbon units created under the law as a unit of personal property, which would make it harder for future national leaders to repeal the carbon tax law without compensation. http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/232918/20111018/expert-warns-carbon-tax-repeal-would-cost-millions.htm Brown has abandoned you and you are panicking. The Carbon Tax will be repealed so suck it up princess

I am not the one willing to discuss this topic.

It is the right that has overstretched

It is abbott that has made the noose and put it over his own neck and now climbing out on a limb.

Nothing to discuss - the carbon tax will be repealed by the LIBs

63% of Australians rejects the Carbon Tax
57% of Australians want the LIBs to repeal it

So suck it up princess!!!

Maqqa wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 9:58am:

John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:57am: Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:49am: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:47am: Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:43am: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:41am: Abbott will NEVER repeal the carbon tax .... the LIB party will replace him before he even tries and then claim that it was Abbotts agenda and the new leader has a different agenda therefore no broken promises .. blah blah blah .. they've got it all worked out As a leftie you'd know that!! As a right wing nutjob you had every opportunity to refute my claim ... but you didn't .... speaks volumes .... I don't need to and I have confronted you with demands for proof the other day which you failed to provide. That speaks volumes Back under your rock boy!! Have you taken a stupid pill today? You want proof you'll just have to wait  ... if Abbott repeals the carbon tax, you can say I was wrong ... the only rocks are in your head ... whats the matter, are you upset that Abbott will never be PM? ...  Doesn't stop Gillard making the claims it won't happen.

Doesn't stop Abbott making claims that he will .... and guess what, it's easy for him to prove it in advance .. all he has toi do is explain how he plans on paying for it, how he plans on making up the budget shortfall repealing it will create ....  something tells me he won't explain because he has no idea

cods wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 10:00am:

The Opposition’s unrelenting attack on the Government over carbon pricing has been simple and devastatingly effective. But Tony Abbott probably should have told his colleagues to hold off purchasing shares in an industry he has predicted will be shattered. I do go along with that.. but we all know it isnt the industry that will be shattered.. mining will survive any idiot knows that... its the rest of our manufacturing . steel industry refining.car manufacturing..everything else will be affected by this CARBON TAX of $23 n ot only are we basically alone..with CARBON TAX.....I see Spain has now bit the bullet!!!!! but we have this enormous price.. and as we are watching more and more business leave the country  or go under.. their first report on what was it $8bn..TAX recovered that they were sharing with the whole country..[ I believe that too has been revised] will also need revising.. denial denial denial.. live in it all you like..but this TAX will/is changing this country for ever... I am not in the least convinced for the better.

So the Euro protecting Spain before Greece votes is your best you can do to promote Abbott's Regressive and Costly Agenda.

You are a lightweight cods.

Maqqa wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 10:11am:

Nothing to discuss - the carbon tax will be repealed by the LIBs 63% of Australians rejects the Carbon Tax 57% of Australians want the LIBs to repeal it So suck it up princess!!!

When will he repeal it.

How will he repeal it, since the majority of the senate will oppose it.

How much will Abbott pay in compensation to industry, and how will this compensation be funded?

And if he removes the carbon compensation, what of the carbon pricing in the economy ... how much will Abbott's action push up the cost of living pressures?

How much more expensive will electricity and food be because of Abbott's action of profiteering for the carbon lobby, for Lib's owner, Clive Palmer?

____ wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 10:17am:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:11am: Nothing to discuss - the carbon tax will be repealed by the LIBs 63% of Australians rejects the Carbon Tax 57% of Australians want the LIBs to repeal it So suck it up princess!!! When will he repeal it. How will he repeal it, since the majority of the senate will oppose it. How much will Abbott pay in compensation to industry, and how will this compensation be funded? And if he removes the carbon compensation, what of the carbon pricing in the economy ... how much will Abbott's action push up the cost of living pressures? How much more expensive will electricity and food be because of Abbott's action of profiteering for the carbon lobby, for Lib's owner, Clive Palmer?

The process starts at the end of the next election

The Greens should just worry about how seats it will retain.

I wonder if Bob Brown is so worried he quit politics - abandon his little penguins when they need him most

____ wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 10:17am:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:11am: Nothing to discuss - the carbon tax will be repealed by the LIBs 63% of Australians rejects the Carbon Tax 57% of Australians want the LIBs to repeal it So suck it up princess!!! When will he repeal it. How will he repeal it, since the majority of the senate will oppose it. How much will Abbott pay in compensation to industry, and how will this compensation be funded? And if he removes the carbon compensation, what of the carbon pricing in the economy ... how much will Abbott's action push up the cost of living pressures? How much more expensive will electricity and food be because of Abbott's action of profiteering for the carbon lobby, for Lib's owner, Clive Palmer?

Don't wait for an answer green ... they don't have one because the reality is they don't really want to repeal it .... if they did they would have those answers all sorted by now ... they've had plenty of time

Maqqa wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 9:53am:

Gist wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:50am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 7:15am: Another lie by our lying PM. Abbott is definitely going to be able to repeal the carbon tax and if/when she loses the next election, she should support legislation (if she is still ALP Leader) as the Coalition did with changes to WorhChoices. Also, the tax cuts will do next to nothing to offset the effect of a higher cost of living under the carbon tax. So when that higher cost of living has come into effect AND Abbott repeals the carbon tax - how will he reduce the cost of living? It's a simple question. It deserves an answer. You are as moronic as Greens or you are deliberately trying to mix two unrelated issue Cost of living generally increases every year i.e. the CPI. The Carbon Tax is an added increase on top of the normal increases The lefties are trying to imply the Carbon Tax are the same as normal increases when it's not. Why would you do that?

Idiot. YOU claim the carbon tax will raise living expenses. OK. So when Abbott repeals the carbon tax HOW WILL HE ENSURE THOSE EXPENSES ARE REDUCED? It's a simple concept simply put to allow simpletons to understand. So kindly give a simple answer.

____ wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 10:13am:

cods wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:00am: The Opposition’s unrelenting attack on the Government over carbon pricing has been simple and devastatingly effective. But Tony Abbott probably should have told his colleagues to hold off purchasing shares in an industry he has predicted will be shattered. I do go along with that.. but we all know it isnt the industry that will be shattered.. mining will survive any idiot knows that... its the rest of our manufacturing . steel industry refining.car manufacturing..everything else will be affected by this CARBON TAX of $23 n ot only are we basically alone..with CARBON TAX.....I see Spain has now bit the bullet!!!!! but we have this enormous price.. and as we are watching more and more business leave the country  or go under.. their first report on what was it $8bn..TAX recovered that they were sharing with the whole country..[ I believe that too has been revised] will also need revising.. denial denial denial.. live in it all you like..but this TAX will/is changing this country for ever... I am not in the least convinced for the better. So the Euro protecting Spain before Greece votes is your best you can do to promote Abbott's Regressive and Costly Agenda. You are a lightweight cods.

no I was just pointing out that the DOMINO EFFECT was working..and I am sorry you cant see what happen over there affecting this ONCE great country..

turn a blind eye if you will and pretend we all live in Utopia..at your peril I would say.

if thats lightweight so be it.

The repeal of the carbon tax is inevitable and it is unstoppable as Australia and the world take back their freedom and independence from the globalist killers.

We will fight the Labor party & Greens to the death if necessary on every reform initiative to transfer ownership of our country to global unelected bodies.  And not just fight their initiatives but reverse the process and take back our nation from the thieves and killers.

As long as the Liberals do not get full control of the upper house the prospect of removing the fixed price carbon price as a stand alone option is next to zero.

Gist wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 9:50am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 7:15am: Another lie by our lying PM. Abbott is definitely going to be able to repeal the carbon tax and if/when she loses the next election, she should support legislation (if she is still ALP Leader) as the Coalition did with changes to WorhChoices. Also, the tax cuts will do next to nothing to offset the effect of a higher cost of living under the carbon tax. So when that higher cost of living has come into effect AND Abbott repeals the carbon tax - how will he reduce the cost of living? It's a simple question. It deserves an answer.

Lets say the cost of living pre-carbon tax is $100 per week, just for a nice round number. Lets also say that the cost of living post-carbon tax will be $150 per week. Make no mistake, prices will increase under the carbon tax - that's the entire point of it, to make things such as fuel and electricity more expensive in the hope we use them less. Now, when Abbott passes legislation to repeal the carbon tax and it has been abolished, the cost of living will go back to $100 per week. It's really that simple!

The removal of the carbon tax is as inevitable as the demise of the Greens and the ALP in Australian politiucal life.  Their destruction and the removal of all their illegal policy initiatives is set in concrete.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 12:46pm:

Gist wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:50am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 7:15am: Another lie by our lying PM. Abbott is definitely going to be able to repeal the carbon tax and if/when she loses the next election, she should support legislation (if she is still ALP Leader) as the Coalition did with changes to WorhChoices. Also, the tax cuts will do next to nothing to offset the effect of a higher cost of living under the carbon tax. So when that higher cost of living has come into effect AND Abbott repeals the carbon tax - how will he reduce the cost of living? It's a simple question. It deserves an answer. Lets say the cost of living pre-carbon tax is $100 per week, just for a nice round number. Lets also say that the cost of living post-carbon tax will be $150 per week. Make no mistake, prices will increase under the carbon tax - that's the entire point of it, to make things such as fuel and electricity more expensive in the hope we use them less. Now, when Abbott passes legislation to repeal the carbon tax and it has been abolished, the cost of living will go back to $100 per week. It's really that simple!

Ho Ho Ho Ho - nobody is stupid enough to believe that would happen.

Dnarever wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 12:53pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 12:46pm: Gist wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:50am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 7:15am: Another lie by our lying PM. Abbott is definitely going to be able to repeal the carbon tax and if/when she loses the next election, she should support legislation (if she is still ALP Leader) as the Coalition did with changes to WorhChoices. Also, the tax cuts will do next to nothing to offset the effect of a higher cost of living under the carbon tax. So when that higher cost of living has come into effect AND Abbott repeals the carbon tax - how will he reduce the cost of living? It's a simple question. It deserves an answer. Lets say the cost of living pre-carbon tax is $100 per week, just for a nice round number. Lets also say that the cost of living post-carbon tax will be $150 per week. Make no mistake, prices will increase under the carbon tax - that's the entire point of it, to make things such as fuel and electricity more expensive in the hope we use them less. Now, when Abbott passes legislation to repeal the carbon tax and it has been abolished, the cost of living will go back to $100 per week. It's really that simple! Ho Ho Ho Ho - nobody is stupid enough to believe that would happen.

I didn't say it would happen exactly like that. If the CPI goes up the usual amount, it may be that the cost of living goes from $100 to $150 and then back down to $110 after the carbon tax is abolished.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 12:58pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 12:53pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 12:46pm: Gist wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:50am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 7:15am: Another lie by our lying PM. Abbott is definitely going to be able to repeal the carbon tax and if/when she loses the next election, she should support legislation (if she is still ALP Leader) as the Coalition did with changes to WorhChoices. Also, the tax cuts will do next to nothing to offset the effect of a higher cost of living under the carbon tax. So when that higher cost of living has come into effect AND Abbott repeals the carbon tax - how will he reduce the cost of living? It's a simple question. It deserves an answer. Lets say the cost of living pre-carbon tax is $100 per week, just for a nice round number. Lets also say that the cost of living post-carbon tax will be $150 per week. Make no mistake, prices will increase under the carbon tax - that's the entire point of it, to make things such as fuel and electricity more expensive in the hope we use them less. Now, when Abbott passes legislation to repeal the carbon tax and it has been abolished, the cost of living will go back to $100 per week. It's really that simple! Ho Ho Ho Ho - nobody is stupid enough to believe that would happen. I didn't say it would happen exactly like that. If the CPI goes up the usual amount, it may be that the cost of living goes from $100 to $150 and then back down to $110 after the carbon tax is abolished.

You leave natural human greed out of your little equation. Nobody is going to reduce their prices by much if anything certainly at the secondary level.

The nation and the world is waking up to the true agenda behind climate gate and the carbon taxes and the conspirators will be defeated and they will never achieve their goals.

bump ... in case you missed this one maqqa !

The People of Australia will hold Tont Abbott to his word to take this tax to a double disillusion if necessary Greens and the ALP, crack down on globalization and repeal the Carbon Tax.

____ wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 6:29am:

Carbon tax repeal not so easy Minister for Mental Health and Ageing, Mark Butler, has pointed out, promises to repeal complicated laws are difficult to pull off. ''Well, we tried rollback on the GST; it didn't work. This is the mother of all rollback campaigns,'' Butler told Q&A on ABC television this week. Deutsche Bank has looked into the Coalition's promise to repeal the carbon tax and said it might not happen until April 2014 - nearly two years after the legislation takes effect in July this year. ''Each step in the constitutional process takes time, and in practice, it could take eight to 14 months for the repeal bills to pass, with risks of further delay at each stage of that process,'' research analyst Tim Jordan wrote in a report released yesterday. ''On that timetable, the earliest a repeal bill could pass after an August 2013 election would be April 2014, 22 months after the carbon price comes into force.'' Assuming the Coalition wins the next election but is not granted control of the upper house, Labor and the Greens are unlikely to repeal the price on carbon, leaving Abbott with the option of calling a ''double dissolution'' - or fresh election on all seats of Parliament. If the double-dissolution election failed to give the Coalition control of both houses of Parliament, it could call a ''joint sitting'' to pass the contested legislation, provided it had a majority of seats in the two houses combined. But whether this is the ideal outcome is another issue. Mr Jordan said abandoning a market mechanism for reducing emissions would ''only provide a temporary reprieve for major emitters''. ''The carbon price is likely to have a modest impact on most listed emitters: most high-carbon firms in trade-exposed sectors will receive free units (and in the case of steel makers, cash grants) to offset the impact; resources companies face a small impact relative to earnings; airlines will pass on the cost in ticket prices; and utilities are likely to recover most of their additional costs through higher electricity prices,'' he wrote. Labor and the Coalition have a bipartisan commitment to cut emissions by 5 per cent below 2000 levels by 2020. Mr Jordan told BusinessDay that this commitment would still stand if the carbon tax was repealed and would probably be met through state-based or ad hoc programs. http://www.businessday.com.au/business/carbon-tax-repeal-not-so-easy-20120508-1yavn.html

they tried rollback on the GST??? when? they were in opposition for nearly 8 years after its introduction and it is obvious to most that OPPOSITIONS dont rollback policies like the GST.  And after all, the real problem was that after a couple years even the ALP realised the GST was GOOD policy that they could ill-afford to repeal.

John Smith wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 10:21am:

____ wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:17am: Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:11am: Nothing to discuss - the carbon tax will be repealed by the LIBs 63% of Australians rejects the Carbon Tax 57% of Australians want the LIBs to repeal it So suck it up princess!!! When will he repeal it. How will he repeal it, since the majority of the senate will oppose it. How much will Abbott pay in compensation to industry, and how will this compensation be funded? And if he removes the carbon compensation, what of the carbon pricing in the economy ... how much will Abbott's action push up the cost of living pressures? How much more expensive will electricity and food be because of Abbott's action of profiteering for the carbon lobby, for Lib's owner, Clive Palmer? Don't wait for an answer green ... they don't have one because the reality is they don't really want to repeal it .... if they did they would have those answers all sorted by now ... they've had plenty of time

which one are you: DUMB or DUMBER or perhaps even DUMBERER. it has been explained hundreds of times the various options for a CT repeal.

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 6:07pm:

____ wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 6:29am: Carbon tax repeal not so easy Minister for Mental Health and Ageing, Mark Butler, has pointed out, promises to repeal complicated laws are difficult to pull off. ''Well, we tried rollback on the GST; it didn't work. This is the mother of all rollback campaigns,'' Butler told Q&A on ABC television this week. Deutsche Bank has looked into the Coalition's promise to repeal the carbon tax and said it might not happen until April 2014 - nearly two years after the legislation takes effect in July this year. ''Each step in the constitutional process takes time, and in practice, it could take eight to 14 months for the repeal bills to pass, with risks of further delay at each stage of that process,'' research analyst Tim Jordan wrote in a report released yesterday. ''On that timetable, the earliest a repeal bill could pass after an August 2013 election would be April 2014, 22 months after the carbon price comes into force.'' Assuming the Coalition wins the next election but is not granted control of the upper house, Labor and the Greens are unlikely to repeal the price on carbon, leaving Abbott with the option of calling a ''double dissolution'' - or fresh election on all seats of Parliament. If the double-dissolution election failed to give the Coalition control of both houses of Parliament, it could call a ''joint sitting'' to pass the contested legislation, provided it had a majority of seats in the two houses combined. But whether this is the ideal outcome is another issue. Mr Jordan said abandoning a market mechanism for reducing emissions would ''only provide a temporary reprieve for major emitters''. ''The carbon price is likely to have a modest impact on most listed emitters: most high-carbon firms in trade-exposed sectors will receive free units (and in the case of steel makers, cash grants) to offset the impact; resources companies face a small impact relative to earnings; airlines will pass on the cost in ticket prices; and utilities are likely to recover most of their additional costs through higher electricity prices,'' he wrote. Labor and the Coalition have a bipartisan commitment to cut emissions by 5 per cent below 2000 levels by 2020. Mr Jordan told BusinessDay that this commitment would still stand if the carbon tax was repealed and would probably be met through state-based or ad hoc programs. http://www.businessday.com.au/business/carbon-tax-repeal-not-so-easy-20120508-1yavn.html they tried rollback on the GST??? when? they were in opposition for nearly 8 years after its introduction and it is obvious to most that OPPOSITIONS dont rollback policies like the GST.  And after all, the real problem was that after a couple years even the ALP realised the GST was GOOD policy that they could ill-afford to repeal.

Labour had a gst of its own it was going to implement it was just called something else.

SOB

Gist wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 10:33am:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:53am: Gist wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:50am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 7:15am: Another lie by our lying PM. Abbott is definitely going to be able to repeal the carbon tax and if/when she loses the next election, she should support legislation (if she is still ALP Leader) as the Coalition did with changes to WorhChoices. Also, the tax cuts will do next to nothing to offset the effect of a higher cost of living under the carbon tax. So when that higher cost of living has come into effect AND Abbott repeals the carbon tax - how will he reduce the cost of living? It's a simple question. It deserves an answer. You are as moronic as Greens or you are deliberately trying to mix two unrelated issue Cost of living generally increases every year i.e. the CPI. The Carbon Tax is an added increase on top of the normal increases The lefties are trying to imply the Carbon Tax are the same as normal increases when it's not. Why would you do that? Idiot. YOU claim the carbon tax will raise living expenses. OK. So when Abbott repeals the carbon tax HOW WILL HE ENSURE THOSE EXPENSES ARE REDUCED? It's a simple concept simply put to allow simpletons to understand. So kindly give a simple answer.

not his problem. the rises in the cost of living from the CT are GILLARDS fault. get over it. you dont stop reversing a fundamentally eveil policy just because you think some aspects might be hard. That labor talk. LIBERALS take the tough decisions. LABOR just takes the DUMB ones.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 12:46pm:

Gist wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:50am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 7:15am: Another lie by our lying PM. Abbott is definitely going to be able to repeal the carbon tax and if/when she loses the next election, she should support legislation (if she is still ALP Leader) as the Coalition did with changes to WorhChoices. Also, the tax cuts will do next to nothing to offset the effect of a higher cost of living under the carbon tax. So when that higher cost of living has come into effect AND Abbott repeals the carbon tax - how will he reduce the cost of living? It's a simple question. It deserves an answer. Lets say the cost of living pre-carbon tax is $100 per week, just for a nice round number. Lets also say that the cost of living post-carbon tax will be $150 per week. Make no mistake, prices will increase under the carbon tax - that's the entire point of it, to make things such as fuel and electricity more expensive in the hope we use them less. Now, when Abbott passes legislation to repeal the carbon tax and it has been abolished, the cost of living will go back to $100 per week. It's really that simple!

That is hilarious. Like anyone would put their prices down.

Besides libs wouldnt remove it they would just rename it.

SOB

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 12:46pm:

Gist wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:50am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 7:15am: Another lie by our lying PM. Abbott is definitely going to be able to repeal the carbon tax and if/when she loses the next election, she should support legislation (if she is still ALP Leader) as the Coalition did with changes to WorhChoices. Also, the tax cuts will do next to nothing to offset the effect of a higher cost of living under the carbon tax. So when that higher cost of living has come into effect AND Abbott repeals the carbon tax - how will he reduce the cost of living? It's a simple question. It deserves an answer. Lets say the cost of living pre-carbon tax is $100 per week, just for a nice round number. Lets also say that the cost of living post-carbon tax will be $150 per week. Make no mistake, prices will increase under the carbon tax - that's the entire point of it, to make things such as fuel and electricity more expensive in the hope we use them less. Now, when Abbott passes legislation to repeal the carbon tax and it has been abolished, the cost of living will go back to $100 per week. It's really that simple!

Will they? Most businesses I've worked for would simply say they've driven down costs. Therefore they have improved profits.

In simple words (for numpties like you) they will pocket the $50.

How will Abbott ensure that this doesn't happen?

Also, please answer this simple question -

The carbon tax is being returned to the people as either a reduction in income tax OR or a pension increase. This would compensate people for that extra $50 a week. Some people will get MORE than the mythical $50 a week that you plucked out of the air.

When Lieberals scrap the tax, they will also have to scrap the tax cuts and cut pensions. PLUS people will still be paying the extra $50 a week (see previous point).

WHAT DOES ABBOTT PROPOSE TO DO ABOUT HIS PROMISED REDUCTION IN PEOPLE'S INCOME? Especially in the face of the cost of living increase?

This Tax will be repealed because it is a lie and a crime against the Australian people.

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 6:13pm:

not his problem. the rises in the cost of living from the CT are GILLARDS fault. get over it. you dont stop reversing a fundamentally eveil policy just because you think some aspects might be hard. That labor talk. LIBERALS take the tough decisions. LABOR just takes the DUMB ones.

Not so. In this hypothetical situation TONY would be PM. TONY will be reducing people's income. But TONY wouldn't be driving down cost of living.

So, are you telling me that's OK with you? YOU ARE HAPPY FOR ABBOTT AND THE LIEBERALS TO DRIVE DOWN INCOMES ONCE THEY ARE IN POWER?

Dnarever wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 1:04pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 12:58pm: Dnarever wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 12:53pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 12:46pm: Gist wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:50am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 7:15am: Another lie by our lying PM. Abbott is definitely going to be able to repeal the carbon tax and if/when she loses the next election, she should support legislation (if she is still ALP Leader) as the Coalition did with changes to WorhChoices. Also, the tax cuts will do next to nothing to offset the effect of a higher cost of living under the carbon tax. So when that higher cost of living has come into effect AND Abbott repeals the carbon tax - how will he reduce the cost of living? It's a simple question. It deserves an answer. Lets say the cost of living pre-carbon tax is $100 per week, just for a nice round number. Lets also say that the cost of living post-carbon tax will be $150 per week. Make no mistake, prices will increase under the carbon tax - that's the entire point of it, to make things such as fuel and electricity more expensive in the hope we use them less. Now, when Abbott passes legislation to repeal the carbon tax and it has been abolished, the cost of living will go back to $100 per week. It's really that simple! Ho Ho Ho Ho - nobody is stupid enough to believe that would happen. I didn't say it would happen exactly like that. If the CPI goes up the usual amount, it may be that the cost of living goes from $100 to $150 and then back down to $110 after the carbon tax is abolished. You leave natural human greed out of your little equation. Nobody is going to reduce their prices by much if anything certainly at the secondary level.

We have seen cases of the ACCC already prosecuting companies for gouging customers over the carbon tax. I doubt there would be many cases of greed - most people would just be glad to be rid of the damn tax!

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 6:42pm:

We have seen cases of the ACCC already prosecuting companies for gouging customers over the carbon tax. I doubt there would be many cases of greed - most people would just be glad to be rid of the damn tax!

Have we? Name two.

I'll ask it again because I know it is an inconvenient question for you AP:

WHAT DOES ABBOTT PROPOSE TO DO ABOUT HIS PROMISED REDUCTION IN PEOPLE'S INCOME? Especially in the face of the cost of living increase?

The Government and the Greens are being deceptive focusing on the impact of this tax on our pockets.  This issue is that this is yet another incremental ceding of our national sovereignty and commonwealth as a people to the faceless international bankersters and billionaire moguls want world Government and ownership of all the assets and resources in the world.  In Europe they are using debt and Austerity to force those nations to give up everything to the banks and globalists.  This is the urgent issue about the carbon tax and why we will not rest till it is repealed.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 6:42pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 1:04pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 12:58pm: Dnarever wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 12:53pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 12:46pm: Gist wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:50am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 7:15am: Another lie by our lying PM. Abbott is definitely going to be able to repeal the carbon tax and if/when she loses the next election, she should support legislation (if she is still ALP Leader) as the Coalition did with changes to WorhChoices. Also, the tax cuts will do next to nothing to offset the effect of a higher cost of living under the carbon tax. So when that higher cost of living has come into effect AND Abbott repeals the carbon tax - how will he reduce the cost of living? It's a simple question. It deserves an answer. Lets say the cost of living pre-carbon tax is $100 per week, just for a nice round number. Lets also say that the cost of living post-carbon tax will be $150 per week. Make no mistake, prices will increase under the carbon tax - that's the entire point of it, to make things such as fuel and electricity more expensive in the hope we use them less. Now, when Abbott passes legislation to repeal the carbon tax and it has been abolished, the cost of living will go back to $100 per week. It's really that simple! Ho Ho Ho Ho - nobody is stupid enough to believe that would happen. I didn't say it would happen exactly like that. If the CPI goes up the usual amount, it may be that the cost of living goes from $100 to $150 and then back down to $110 after the carbon tax is abolished. You leave natural human greed out of your little equation. Nobody is going to reduce their prices by much if anything certainly at the secondary level. We have seen cases of the ACCC already prosecuting companies for gouging customers over the carbon tax. I doubt there would be many cases of greed - most people would just be glad to be rid of the damn tax!

You are talking in large about secondary charges which will have have been locked into the price structure for about 2 years by then, nobody would even be able to identify what they are let alone take any action about it.

To think otherwise is just foolish.

why dont all you petty losers just wait until the CT is repealed and see how it all plays out. for now, you are just playing with yourselves creating scenarios that even that moron Greens_liquidated would be embarrassed of.

Gist wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 6:49pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 6:42pm: We have seen cases of the ACCC already prosecuting companies for gouging customers over the carbon tax. I doubt there would be many cases of greed - most people would just be glad to be rid of the damn tax! Have we? Name two.

I read an article about it this morning - one was something to do with a wedding and guests being charged an extra $5 per head because of the carbon tax. Another I cannot remember and can't find the article.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 7:03pm:

Gist wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 6:49pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 6:42pm: We have seen cases of the ACCC already prosecuting companies for gouging customers over the carbon tax. I doubt there would be many cases of greed - most people would just be glad to be rid of the damn tax! Have we? Name two. I read an article about it this morning - one was something to do with a wedding and guests being charged an extra $5 per head because of the carbon tax. Another I cannot remember and can't find the article.

Well assuming that first one is true then they weren't being charged because of any carbon tax were they? Because it doesn't exist yet. So they were being ripped off by a greedy merchant.

What were you saying about people not being greedy?

Gist wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 7:06pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 7:03pm: Gist wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 6:49pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 6:42pm: We have seen cases of the ACCC already prosecuting companies for gouging customers over the carbon tax. I doubt there would be many cases of greed - most people would just be glad to be rid of the damn tax! Have we? Name two. I read an article about it this morning - one was something to do with a wedding and guests being charged an extra $5 per head because of the carbon tax. Another I cannot remember and can't find the article. Well assuming that first one is true then they weren't being charged because of any carbon tax were they? Because it doesn't exist yet. So they were being ripped off by a greedy merchant. What were you saying about people not being greedy?

this is also Gillards fault. She has provded the scam merchants with a new chance to ripoff people. And after all, her marketing of the CT has been as abysmal as pretty much everyhing else she has done.

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 6:58pm:

why dont all you petty losers just wait until the CT is repealed and see how it all plays out. for now, you are just playing with yourselves creating scenarios that even that moron Greens_liquidated would be embarrassed of.

Oh sure. We'll just wait like good little munchkins and trust that the great big Lieberal party will make it all OK.

You don't have two neurons to rub together so feel free to go ahead and do that.

We'll ask pointy questions about very real consequences of actions that the Lieberals are telling us they will implement come hell or high water.

And you've assured us sooooooooooo many times that the Lieberals WILL DEFINITELY 150% FOR SURE be the next government. So it seems these consequence WILL DEFINITELY 150% FOR SURE come about. Therefore if we accept YOUR fanciful wankfest dreams then they ain't fanciful at all.

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 7:09pm:

Gist wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 7:06pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 7:03pm: Gist wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 6:49pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 6:42pm: We have seen cases of the ACCC already prosecuting companies for gouging customers over the carbon tax. I doubt there would be many cases of greed - most people would just be glad to be rid of the damn tax! Have we? Name two. I read an article about it this morning - one was something to do with a wedding and guests being charged an extra $5 per head because of the carbon tax. Another I cannot remember and can't find the article. Well assuming that first one is true then they weren't being charged because of any carbon tax were they? Because it doesn't exist yet. So they were being ripped off by a greedy merchant. What were you saying about people not being greedy? this is also Gillards fault. She has provded the scam merchants with a new chance to ripoff people. And after all, her marketing of the CT has been as abysmal as pretty much everyhing else she has done.

A one-off from the sounds of things. When it becomes COMMONPLACE under the Lieberal regime, WHAT IS TONY GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?

Gist wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 7:06pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 7:03pm: Gist wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 6:49pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 6:42pm: We have seen cases of the ACCC already prosecuting companies for gouging customers over the carbon tax. I doubt there would be many cases of greed - most people would just be glad to be rid of the damn tax! Have we? Name two. I read an article about it this morning - one was something to do with a wedding and guests being charged an extra $5 per head because of the carbon tax. Another I cannot remember and can't find the article. Well assuming that first one is true then they weren't being charged because of any carbon tax were they? Because it doesn't exist yet. So they were being ripped off by a greedy merchant. What were you saying about people not being greedy?

Actually, they were - they were told the $5 charge is due to the carbon tax and the wedding wasn't until later this year - AFTER the introduction of the carbon tax on July 1. I never said people won't be greedy - I said the ACCC will come down hard on the few who are.

Any common sense look at the prospect of removing this legislation would have to conclude it very unlikely for a number of very good reasons.

It would be very difficult to remove structurally without control of both houses of parliament which looks to be unlikely.

The prospect of a DD election I would think equally unlikely, the time model shows the earliest possible would be mid 2014 but late 2014 more probable and early 2015 by far the most likely. Up to almost 3 years after the fixed price is implemented before the first step of legislation could be passed.

Would Tnoy go to a DD in 2015? The probability is no way jose.

By 2015 with the fixed price in play for 3 years and no longer the prospect of fear and smear having an impact and obviously the world still on its axis the prospect of significant emotional support is very low.

It looks at this time like the Liberals may expect a huge sweeping victory in 2013 given 15 months of elector discontent with the liberals the likelihood of them risking seats on a DD I would think to be not even a remote possibility where they would know up front they were going to lose seats. A bounce back would be an almost certainty.

Then as has been discussed there is the huge problem about how to do it, where all we see is huge financial black holes in costing for no benefit. Will they go to a DD with an un-costed policy which is unaffordable will hurt people and still leave the carbon problem to be dealt with and paid for?

Are the Liberals that stupid? Well I'm not real sure but I hope so.

Dnarever wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 7:31pm:

Any common sense look at the prospect of removing this legislation would have to conclude it very unlikely for a number of very good reasons. It would be very difficult to remove structurally without control of both houses of parliament which looks to be unlikely. The prospect of a DD election I would think equally unlikely, the time model shows the earliest possible would be mid 2014 but late 2014 more probable and early 2015 by far the most likely. Up to almost 3 years after the fixed price is implemented before the first step of legislation could be passed. Would Tnoy go to a DD in 2015? The probability is no way jose. By 2015 with the fixed price in play for 3 years and no longer the prospect of fear and smear having an impact and obviously the world still on its axis the prospect of significant emotional support is very low. It looks at this time like the Liberals may expect a huge sweeping victory in 2013 given 15 months of elector discontent with the liberals the likelihood of them risking seats on a DD I would think to be not even a remote possibility where they would know up front they were going to lose seats. A bounce back would be an almost certainty. Then as has been discussed there is the huge problem about how to do it, where all we see is huge financial black holes in costing for no benefit. Will they go to a DD with an un-costed policy which is unaffordable will hurt people and still leave the carbon problem to be dealt with and paid for? Are the Liberals that stupid? Well I'm not real sure but I hope so.

Yeah, you just keep on wishing for that. You poor thing!  ;D

We will  never allow the Government to get away with implementing this lying tax for the faceless international bankers that will see ownership of all of our resources transferred off shore to thugs.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 7:35pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 7:31pm: Any common sense look at the prospect of removing this legislation would have to conclude it very unlikely for a number of very good reasons. It would be very difficult to remove structurally without control of both houses of parliament which looks to be unlikely. The prospect of a DD election I would think equally unlikely, the time model shows the earliest possible would be mid 2014 but late 2014 more probable and early 2015 by far the most likely. Up to almost 3 years after the fixed price is implemented before the first step of legislation could be passed. Would Tnoy go to a DD in 2015? The probability is no way jose. By 2015 with the fixed price in play for 3 years and no longer the prospect of fear and smear having an impact and obviously the world still on its axis the prospect of significant emotional support is very low. It looks at this time like the Liberals may expect a huge sweeping victory in 2013 given 15 months of elector discontent with the liberals the likelihood of them risking seats on a DD I would think to be not even a remote possibility where they would know up front they were going to lose seats. A bounce back would be an almost certainty. Then as has been discussed there is the huge problem about how to do it, where all we see is huge financial black holes in costing for no benefit. Will they go to a DD with an un-costed policy which is unaffordable will hurt people and still leave the carbon problem to be dealt with and paid for? Are the Liberals that stupid? Well I'm not real sure but I hope so. Yeah, you just keep on wishing for that. You poor thing!  ;D

So in other words, you don't have a clue either? You are happy to sit there fat, dumb, and happy and trust that somehow, someone will make the bad go away, just like longloser does.

Dnarever wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 7:31pm:

Any common sense look at the prospect of removing this legislation would have to conclude it very unlikely for a number of very good reasons. It would be very difficult to remove structurally without control of both houses of parliament which looks to be unlikely. The prospect of a DD election I would think equally unlikely, the time model shows the earliest possible would be mid 2014 but late 2014 more probable and early 2015 by far the most likely. Up to almost 3 years after the fixed price is implemented before the first step of legislation could be passed. Would Tnoy go to a DD in 2015? The probability is no way jose. By 2015 with the fixed price in play for 3 years and no longer the prospect of fear and smear having an impact and obviously the world still on its axis the prospect of significant emotional support is very low. It looks at this time like the Liberals may expect a huge sweeping victory in 2013 given 15 months of elector discontent with the liberals the likelihood of them risking seats on a DD I would think to be not even a remote possibility where they would know up front they were going to lose seats. A bounce back would be an almost certainty. Then as has been discussed there is the huge problem about how to do it, where all we see is huge financial black holes in costing for no benefit. Will they go to a DD with an un-costed policy which is unaffordable will hurt people and still leave the carbon problem to be dealt with and paid for? Are the Liberals that stupid? Well I'm not real sure but I hope so.

Lets assume what you say is correct - this can only benefit the LIBs

Right now 63% reject the carbon tax and 57% wants it repealed.

Therefore Abbott can take as long as he wants

Labor was very patience on the Thomson investigation - and that took 4 years.

So if the repeal takes 4 years - so be it!

Labor's Carbon Tax is the LIBs' Workchoices.

The LIBs stuck by Workchoices right up to the election results in 2007 so I don't expect Labor to be any different

But I can't see Labor being that stupid to hang onto the Carbon Tax if it's hit by 57/43 TPP results

Lefties claimed a whitewash in 2007 when he won by 53/47

If Labor lose by 57/43 - any sane Labor MP who survived the slaughter would be stupid to hang onto the Carbon Tax

Dnarever wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 7:31pm:

Any common sense look at the prospect of removing this legislation would have to conclude it very unlikely for a number of very good reasons. It would be very difficult to remove structurally without control of both houses of parliament which looks to be unlikely. The prospect of a DD election I would think equally unlikely, the time model shows the earliest possible would be mid 2014 but late 2014 more probable and early 2015 by far the most likely. Up to almost 3 years after the fixed price is implemented before the first step of legislation could be passed. Would Tnoy go to a DD in 2015? The probability is no way jose. By 2015 with the fixed price in play for 3 years and no longer the prospect of fear and smear having an impact and obviously the world still on its axis the prospect of significant emotional support is very low. It looks at this time like the Liberals may expect a huge sweeping victory in 2013 given 15 months of elector discontent with the liberals the likelihood of them risking seats on a DD I would think to be not even a remote possibility where they would know up front they were going to lose seats. A bounce back would be an almost certainty. Then as has been discussed there is the huge problem about how to do it, where all we see is huge financial black holes in costing for no benefit. Will they go to a DD with an un-costed policy which is unaffordable will hurt people and still leave the carbon problem to be dealt with and paid for? Are the Liberals that stupid? Well I'm not real sure but I hope so.

so your considered opinion is that After Abbott wins a massive victory entirely based on hatred of a Carbon Tax that you think it is ethical for Labor to then refuse to support the biggest mandate in history??? THATS IT?? Do you wonder why we think the ALP is such an amoral and ethics-free party? If the ALP had any sense of morality and support for the principles of parliamentary democracy it would support the repeal just as it demanded the coalition support the WorkChoices repeal - which is what it did.

You entire position is pretty much based on what is the most likely way of subverting the clearly revealed wish of the voters? It is this level of intransigence which may be what causes the senate vote to go so far as to give Abbott a majority in his own right - either in the next election or the one following.

Let's face it. There isnt a single political strategy that Gillard has employed that has been anything but a truly stellar failure. Why do you think a refusal to countenance supporting a mandated repeal will play any better with the voters than every other strategy? with the Carbon tax the single issue that voters despise her for most do you not think the ALPs refusal to repeal it in the senate could bakfire in devastating manner?

the DD could still occur earlier than you seem to believe but the true destruction of the ALP could happen if they refuse to support what the voters want. An early election in 2014 for example could see senate control return to the coalition and the lower house see a 100+ seat majority.  And all of this will be to blame for a carbon tax that has no legitimacy, no purpose and becomes a lightening rod for all those that belive govt refuses to listen. And the ALP could pay so hard for this foolishness that it wil take a generation to recover.

The carbon tax is a scam, it will not stand, we will not allow Gillard and the Greens to give our nation and its resources to the faceless international banks.  They will go to prison for this.

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 8:17pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 7:31pm: Any common sense look at the prospect of removing this legislation would have to conclude it very unlikely for a number of very good reasons. It would be very difficult to remove structurally without control of both houses of parliament which looks to be unlikely. The prospect of a DD election I would think equally unlikely, the time model shows the earliest possible would be mid 2014 but late 2014 more probable and early 2015 by far the most likely. Up to almost 3 years after the fixed price is implemented before the first step of legislation could be passed. Would Tnoy go to a DD in 2015? The probability is no way jose. By 2015 with the fixed price in play for 3 years and no longer the prospect of fear and smear having an impact and obviously the world still on its axis the prospect of significant emotional support is very low. It looks at this time like the Liberals may expect a huge sweeping victory in 2013 given 15 months of elector discontent with the liberals the likelihood of them risking seats on a DD I would think to be not even a remote possibility where they would know up front they were going to lose seats. A bounce back would be an almost certainty. Then as has been discussed there is the huge problem about how to do it, where all we see is huge financial black holes in costing for no benefit. Will they go to a DD with an un-costed policy which is unaffordable will hurt people and still leave the carbon problem to be dealt with and paid for? Are the Liberals that stupid? Well I'm not real sure but I hope so. so your considered opinion is that After Abbott wins a massive victory entirely based on hatred of a Carbon Tax that you think it is ethical for Labor to then refuse to support the biggest mandate in history??? THATS IT?? Do you wonder why we think the ALP is such an amoral and ethics-free party? If the ALP had any sense of morality and support for the principles of parliamentary democracy it would support the repeal just as it demanded the coalition support the WorkChoices repeal - which is what it did. You entire position is pretty much based on what is the most likely way of subverting the clearly revealed wish of the voters? It is this level of intransigence which may be what causes the senate vote to go so far as to give Abbott a majority in his own right - either in the next election or the one following. Let's face it. There isnt a single political strategy that Gillard has employed that has been anything but a truly stellar failure. Why do you think a refusal to countenance supporting a mandated repeal will play any better with the voters than every other strategy? with the Carbon tax the single issue that voters despise her for most do you not think the ALPs refusal to repeal it in the senate could bakfire in devastating manner? the DD could still occur earlier than you seem to believe but the true destruction of the ALP could happen if they refuse to support what the voters want. An early election in 2014 for example could see senate control return to the coalition and the lower house see a 100+ seat majority.  And all of this will be to blame for a carbon tax that has no legitimacy, no purpose and becomes a lightening rod for all those that belive govt refuses to listen. And the ALP could pay so hard for this foolishness that it wil take a generation to recover.

Quote:

so your considered opinion is that After Abbott wins a massive victory entirely based on hatred of a Carbon Tax that you think it is ethical for Labor to then refuse to support the biggest mandate in history???

A huge mandate to take action on carbon dioxide was rejected by Tnoy Abbnott but that was no problem? The same thing is only an issue when its Labor ignoring the mandate apparently.


Quote:

An early election in 2014 for example could see senate control return to the coalition and the lower house see a 100+ seat majority

An early 2014 DD election would almost require Labor and the Greens to support the time table. Any delays modifications sent back re scheduled discussion days, discussion sent to senate committee etc all push the earliest available date further back.

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 8:17pm:

so your considered opinion is that After Abbott wins a massive victory entirely based on hatred of a Carbon Tax that you think it is ethical for Labor to then refuse to support the biggest mandate in history??? THATS IT?? Do you wonder why we think the ALP is such an amoral and ethics-free party? If the ALP had any sense of morality and support for the principles of parliamentary democracy it would support the repeal just as it demanded the coalition support the WorkChoices repeal - which is what it did.

Absolutely! The Labor party should take a leaf out of the Greens book and actually support what it stands for. If that means support for a carbon tax then it should vote in favour of a carbon tax and against removal of said tax. Under any circumstance.

If people don't like that position then they shouldn't vote for the party.

If people DO vote for the party then those people deserve for that position to be represented in parliament, just as they voted.

THAT'S known as ethics. Something of which it is clear you have absolutely NO KNOWLEDGE of.

Gist wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 8:00pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 7:35pm: Dnarever wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 7:31pm: Any common sense look at the prospect of removing this legislation would have to conclude it very unlikely for a number of very good reasons. It would be very difficult to remove structurally without control of both houses of parliament which looks to be unlikely. The prospect of a DD election I would think equally unlikely, the time model shows the earliest possible would be mid 2014 but late 2014 more probable and early 2015 by far the most likely. Up to almost 3 years after the fixed price is implemented before the first step of legislation could be passed. Would Tnoy go to a DD in 2015? The probability is no way jose. By 2015 with the fixed price in play for 3 years and no longer the prospect of fear and smear having an impact and obviously the world still on its axis the prospect of significant emotional support is very low. It looks at this time like the Liberals may expect a huge sweeping victory in 2013 given 15 months of elector discontent with the liberals the likelihood of them risking seats on a DD I would think to be not even a remote possibility where they would know up front they were going to lose seats. A bounce back would be an almost certainty. Then as has been discussed there is the huge problem about how to do it, where all we see is huge financial black holes in costing for no benefit. Will they go to a DD with an un-costed policy which is unaffordable will hurt people and still leave the carbon problem to be dealt with and paid for? Are the Liberals that stupid? Well I'm not real sure but I hope so. Yeah, you just keep on wishing for that. You poor thing!  ;D So in other words, you don't have a clue either? You are happy to sit there fat, dumb, and happy and trust that somehow, someone will make the bad go away, just like longloser does.

Firstly, I am not fat. I could use an extra 10kg or so, in fact. Secondly, my IQ well exceeds 100 - certainly not dumb. Thirdly, I am very happy in the knowledge that the end of the current government is just around the corner and with it, the carbon tax and mining tax and the waste and excess that has come with this government!  :)

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 6:11pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:21am: ____ wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:17am: Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:11am: Nothing to discuss - the carbon tax will be repealed by the LIBs 63% of Australians rejects the Carbon Tax 57% of Australians want the LIBs to repeal it So suck it up princess!!! When will he repeal it. How will he repeal it, since the majority of the senate will oppose it. How much will Abbott pay in compensation to industry, and how will this compensation be funded? And if he removes the carbon compensation, what of the carbon pricing in the economy ... how much will Abbott's action push up the cost of living pressures? How much more expensive will electricity and food be because of Abbott's action of profiteering for the carbon lobby, for Lib's owner, Clive Palmer? Don't wait for an answer green ... they don't have one because the reality is they don't really want to repeal it .... if they did they would have those answers all sorted by now ... they've had plenty of time which one are you: DUMB or DUMBER or perhaps even DUMBERER. it has been explained hundreds of times the various options for a CT repeal.

Ok dumbest ... I'll explain it to you again ... it will never work .. what you explained is a hypothetical that will NEVER happen... ABBOTT will NEVER go to a DD , no matter how many times you repeat it

John Smith wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 8:54pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 6:11pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:21am: ____ wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:17am: Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:11am: Nothing to discuss - the carbon tax will be repealed by the LIBs 63% of Australians rejects the Carbon Tax 57% of Australians want the LIBs to repeal it So suck it up princess!!! When will he repeal it. How will he repeal it, since the majority of the senate will oppose it. How much will Abbott pay in compensation to industry, and how will this compensation be funded? And if he removes the carbon compensation, what of the carbon pricing in the economy ... how much will Abbott's action push up the cost of living pressures? How much more expensive will electricity and food be because of Abbott's action of profiteering for the carbon lobby, for Lib's owner, Clive Palmer? Don't wait for an answer green ... they don't have one because the reality is they don't really want to repeal it .... if they did they would have those answers all sorted by now ... they've had plenty of time which one are you: DUMB or DUMBER or perhaps even DUMBERER. it has been explained hundreds of times the various options for a CT repeal. Ok dumbest ... I'll explain it to you again ... it will never work .. what you explained is a hypothetical that will NEVER happen... ABBOTT will NEVER go to a DD , no matter how many times you repeat it

No matter how many times you repeat that limp argument of yours that Abbott can't/won't go to a DD, it's obvious it's what you HOPE for, not what you KNOW can/will happen.

Denial cant change the fact hat six months after the next election the carbon tax, the Greenx and the ALP will be toast.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 8:57pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 8:54pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 6:11pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:21am: ____ wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:17am: Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:11am: Nothing to discuss - the carbon tax will be repealed by the LIBs 63% of Australians rejects the Carbon Tax 57% of Australians want the LIBs to repeal it So suck it up princess!!! When will he repeal it. How will he repeal it, since the majority of the senate will oppose it. How much will Abbott pay in compensation to industry, and how will this compensation be funded? And if he removes the carbon compensation, what of the carbon pricing in the economy ... how much will Abbott's action push up the cost of living pressures? How much more expensive will electricity and food be because of Abbott's action of profiteering for the carbon lobby, for Lib's owner, Clive Palmer? Don't wait for an answer green ... they don't have one because the reality is they don't really want to repeal it .... if they did they would have those answers all sorted by now ... they've had plenty of time which one are you: DUMB or DUMBER or perhaps even DUMBERER. it has been explained hundreds of times the various options for a CT repeal. Ok dumbest ... I'll explain it to you again ... it will never work .. what you explained is a hypothetical that will NEVER happen... ABBOTT will NEVER go to a DD , no matter how many times you repeat it No matter how many times you repeat that limp argument of yours that Abbott can't/won't go to a DD, it's obvious it's what you HOPE for, not what you KNOW can/will happen.

Rubbish the requirments of the process are well documented.

Following a huge victory in 2013 which he expects a DD in 2015 can only cost him seats - its blatently obvious.

He will not take an option from which he can only lose.

It is fair to say though Dna that as a Labor man yourself you too should be of the mindset that whoever said to Julia Gillard that entering this agreement with the Greens for a carbon tax needs to be taken outside and given a hell of a kicking.

This carbon tax was only ever going to be unpopular and has the Labor Party poll the lowest levels in opinion poll history.

Hardly covering itself in glory.

No more Greens after the DD Tony will love getting rid of them.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 9:50pm:

It is fair to say though Dna that as a Labor man yourself you too should be of the mindset that whoever said to Julia Gillard that entering this agreement with the Greens for a carbon tax needs to be taken outside and given a hell of a kicking. This carbon tax was only ever going to be unpopular and has the Labor Party poll the lowest levels in opinion poll history. Hardly covering itself in glory.

She had to do it - otherwise she could not have formed a minority government.

I remember Bob Brown saying at the time Abbott was rude to him. I applauded Abbott for doing it because chances are he told Bob where to stick his carbon tax!

The same deal was done with Wilke and the Pokies

Not sure what Oakshott and the other d1ckhead was promised but they fell for it as well.

Perhaps this was a blessing in disguise for Abbott.

Dnarever wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 9:37pm:

Rubbish the requirments of the process are well documented. Following a huge victory in 2013 which he expects a DD in 2015 can only cost him seats - its blatently obvious. He will not take an option from which he can only lose.

based on what?

If he has a huge win in 2013 based on an anti- carbon tax

Why would he lose seat in 2015 based on an anti-carbon tax?

Just do a few reruns of Gillard, Swann and Wong.

The alcho's in labor are drunk with stupidity.

After the reruns, ask the question. Do you really believe these idiots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crkTPDQlnUc

Tony Abbott famously said "labor will obsolutely bring in a carbon tax"

Maqqa wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 11:31pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:37pm: Rubbish the requirments of the process are well documented. Following a huge victory in 2013 which he expects a DD in 2015 can only cost him seats - its blatently obvious. He will not take an option from which he can only lose. based on what? If he has a huge win in 2013 based on an anti- carbon tax Why would he lose seat in 2015 based on an anti-carbon tax?

Yes, I also cannot fathom DeNiAl's strange thinking...

Dnarever wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 9:37pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 8:57pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 8:54pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 6:11pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:21am: ____ wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:17am: Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:11am: Nothing to discuss - the carbon tax will be repealed by the LIBs 63% of Australians rejects the Carbon Tax 57% of Australians want the LIBs to repeal it So suck it up princess!!! When will he repeal it. How will he repeal it, since the majority of the senate will oppose it. How much will Abbott pay in compensation to industry, and how will this compensation be funded? And if he removes the carbon compensation, what of the carbon pricing in the economy ... how much will Abbott's action push up the cost of living pressures? How much more expensive will electricity and food be because of Abbott's action of profiteering for the carbon lobby, for Lib's owner, Clive Palmer? Don't wait for an answer green ... they don't have one because the reality is they don't really want to repeal it .... if they did they would have those answers all sorted by now ... they've had plenty of time which one are you: DUMB or DUMBER or perhaps even DUMBERER. it has been explained hundreds of times the various options for a CT repeal. Ok dumbest ... I'll explain it to you again ... it will never work .. what you explained is a hypothetical that will NEVER happen... ABBOTT will NEVER go to a DD , no matter how many times you repeat it No matter how many times you repeat that limp argument of yours that Abbott can't/won't go to a DD, it's obvious it's what you HOPE for, not what you KNOW can/will happen. Rubbish the requirments of the process are well documented. Following a huge victory in 2013 which he expects a DD in 2015 can only cost him seats - its blatently obvious. He will not take an option from which he can only lose.

A DD can actually be held ANYTIME if a bill is rejected 3 months apart. much of the soc-called analysis gets caught up on senate half-election timing and is quite wrong. And yes, Antony Green is wrong as we will all see quite soon.

And you presumption that a DD will cost Abbot seats is just that - a presumption. If the DD is held to right a wrong inflicted by a senate that refuses to honour a massive mandate, then it is the opposition parties (greens and ALP) that will lose seats. Voters hate being forced to early elections but even more they hate being told that their votes are being ignored.

Maqqa wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 11:27pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:50pm: It is fair to say though Dna that as a Labor man yourself you too should be of the mindset that whoever said to Julia Gillard that entering this agreement with the Greens for a carbon tax needs to be taken outside and given a hell of a kicking. This carbon tax was only ever going to be unpopular and has the Labor Party poll the lowest levels in opinion poll history. Hardly covering itself in glory. She had to do it - otherwise she could not have formed a minority government. I remember Bob Brown saying at the time Abbott was rude to him. I applauded Abbott for doing it because chances are he told Bob where to stick his carbon tax! The same deal was done with Wilke and the Pokies Not sure what Oakshott and the other d1ckhead was promised but they fell for it as well. Perhaps this was a blessing in disguise for Abbott.

thats the fantasy that caused all this problem for Labor. Adam Bandt promised on election night to support Gillard. He was NEVER EVER going to support Abbott and so to promise the Greens a carbon tax in return for a vote they were always going to get was the single stupidest thing that Gillard has done.

Dnarever wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 9:37pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 8:57pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 8:54pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 6:11pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:21am: ____ wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:17am: Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:11am: Nothing to discuss - the carbon tax will be repealed by the LIBs 63% of Australians rejects the Carbon Tax 57% of Australians want the LIBs to repeal it So suck it up princess!!! When will he repeal it. How will he repeal it, since the majority of the senate will oppose it. How much will Abbott pay in compensation to industry, and how will this compensation be funded? And if he removes the carbon compensation, what of the carbon pricing in the economy ... how much will Abbott's action push up the cost of living pressures? How much more expensive will electricity and food be because of Abbott's action of profiteering for the carbon lobby, for Lib's owner, Clive Palmer? Don't wait for an answer green ... they don't have one because the reality is they don't really want to repeal it .... if they did they would have those answers all sorted by now ... they've had plenty of time which one are you: DUMB or DUMBER or perhaps even DUMBERER. it has been explained hundreds of times the various options for a CT repeal. Ok dumbest ... I'll explain it to you again ... it will never work .. what you explained is a hypothetical that will NEVER happen... ABBOTT will NEVER go to a DD , no matter how many times you repeat it No matter how many times you repeat that limp argument of yours that Abbott can't/won't go to a DD, it's obvious it's what you HOPE for, [highlight]not what you KNOW can/will happen[/highlight]. Rubbish the requirments of the process are well documented. Following a huge victory in 2013 which he expects a DD in 2015 can only cost him seats - its blatently obvious. He will not take an option from which he can only lose.

I've got news for you sunshine ... you don't know what will happen either .... I bet you didn't think you would end up with a hung parliament .... we're talking about predicting future events ... no one KNOWS what will happen now do they? such an bright fellow

John Smith wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 5:40pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:37pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 8:57pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 8:54pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 6:11pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:21am: ____ wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:17am: Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:11am: Nothing to discuss - the carbon tax will be repealed by the LIBs 63% of Australians rejects the Carbon Tax 57% of Australians want the LIBs to repeal it So suck it up princess!!! When will he repeal it. How will he repeal it, since the majority of the senate will oppose it. How much will Abbott pay in compensation to industry, and how will this compensation be funded? And if he removes the carbon compensation, what of the carbon pricing in the economy ... how much will Abbott's action push up the cost of living pressures? How much more expensive will electricity and food be because of Abbott's action of profiteering for the carbon lobby, for Lib's owner, Clive Palmer? Don't wait for an answer green ... they don't have one because the reality is they don't really want to repeal it .... if they did they would have those answers all sorted by now ... they've had plenty of time which one are you: DUMB or DUMBER or perhaps even DUMBERER. it has been explained hundreds of times the various options for a CT repeal. Ok dumbest ... I'll explain it to you again ... it will never work .. what you explained is a hypothetical that will NEVER happen... ABBOTT will NEVER go to a DD , no matter how many times you repeat it No matter how many times you repeat that limp argument of yours that Abbott can't/won't go to a DD, it's obvious it's what you HOPE for, [highlight]not what you KNOW can/will happen[/highlight]. Rubbish the requirments of the process are well documented. Following a huge victory in 2013 which he expects a DD in 2015 can only cost him seats - its blatently obvious. He will not take an option from which he can only lose. I've got news for you sunshine ... you don't know what will happen either .... I bet you didn't think you would end up with a hung parliament .... we're talking about predicting future events ... no one KNOWS what will happen now do they? such an bright fellow

hmm... did you know (well of course you didnt) that a number of commentators at the time were looking at the polls and predicting either a 1 seat majority or a MINORITY govt. So yes,. plenty were predicting that as a strong possibility. If you read political history you might learn that a lot of seemingly odd events are quite predictable. Youc an never be 100% right but you can certianly be a lot closer than you seem to think.

I think we should keep it, but as a levy and not switch to the trading scheme.

My prediction is that the coalition will keep it, but under Turnbull or someone else, not Abbott.

freediver wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:10pm:

I think we should keep it, but as a levy and not switch to the trading scheme. My prediction is that the coalition will keep it, but under Turnbull or someone else, not Abbott.

let me ask you the same question:

Do you think that if abbott wins a large and undeniable mandate to repeal the CT that the ALP is honour-bound to remove it?

If he wins an undeniable mandate it won't matter what the ALP think.

All Abbott needs to do is keep asking labor if they will follow the mandate of the people and vote to repeal the carbon tax.

If they answer, it will be NO, if they dont answer, we all know it means NO.

labor are screwed.

freediver wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:21pm:

If he wins an undeniable mandate it won't matter what the ALP think.

nice deflection but you know what I mean. i is neraly impossible for the coalition to get a senate majority at the next election. Perhaps at the one after.

So I repeat my question. I know it is a question of principle which is why so many people refuse to answer it.

Can YOU answer it, FD?

Quote:

i is neraly impossible for the coalition to get a senate majority at the next election.

Aye. The people have spoken.

If they really do win a mandate and labor blocks it, they will simply get an even bigger mandate next time round. It has happened before. The more 'undeniable' the 'in fact deniable' mandate is, the worse labor would make it for themselves if they block it.

There is no bind of honour. There is only the next election. The people will judge, and neither party is out to destroy itself.

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:09pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 6:21pm: If he wins an undeniable mandate it won't matter what the ALP think. nice deflection but you know what I mean. i is neraly impossible for the coalition to get a senate majority at the next election. Perhaps at the one after. So I repeat my question. I know it is a question of principle which is why so many people refuse to answer it. Can YOU answer it, FD?

You don't seem to answer about the difference with Abbnott opposing the ETS that he had voted for which had a huge mandate at the time.

You only seem to want to respect the mandates which you support.

I do not think that the major problem is what Labor either support or not. I doubt that they can technically manage a repeal of the fixed price deal.

They can not afford to do it and they can not put an alternative in place. There is many billions of Dollars of black hole in their commitment to repeal the legislation.

I would think that Abbnott would be in deep poo if Labor do support his mandate - the last thing he would want to happen - remember that his belief is that a carbon tax is the best method.

freediver wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 6:21pm:

If he wins an undeniable mandate it won't matter what the ALP think.

You shoudl be a politican. That was one of the better non-answers yet. ANd like all such answers it yeilds no useful information while revealing nothing of the ethics or morals of the speaker.

Does this answer your question Longy?


Quote:

There is no bind of honour. There is only the next election. The people will judge, and neither party is out to destroy itself.

freediver wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:21pm:

Does this answer your question Longy? Quote: There is no bind of honour. There is only the next election. The people will judge, and neither party is out to destroy itself.

Not even close. I asked you for YOUR position - not quoting someone elses amoral position.

So presumably, the Coalition voted to repeal WorkChoices for no reason. You know that they needed the Coalitions senate votes, right?

So try again and see if you can answer the actual question directly. A Question Time answer is not an actual answer.

Quote:

Not even close. I asked you for YOUR position - not quoting someone elses amoral position.

It is my position Longy. Whose do you think it is?

I really don't get why people go on about what a political party is honour bound to do. This isn't the knights of the round table. It is politics. They will be judged at election time.

freediver wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:50pm:

Quote: Not even close. I asked you for YOUR position - not quoting someone elses amoral position. It is my position Longy. Whose do you think it is? I really don't get why people go on about what a political party is honour bound to do. This isn't the knights of the round table. It is politics. They will be judged at election time.

longy refuses to accept any answer that doesn't say what he wants it to say ...

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 5:56pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 5:40pm: Dnarever wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:37pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 8:57pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 8:54pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 6:11pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:21am: ____ wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:17am: Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:11am: Nothing to discuss - the carbon tax will be repealed by the LIBs 63% of Australians rejects the Carbon Tax 57% of Australians want the LIBs to repeal it So suck it up princess!!! When will he repeal it. How will he repeal it, since the majority of the senate will oppose it. How much will Abbott pay in compensation to industry, and how will this compensation be funded? And if he removes the carbon compensation, what of the carbon pricing in the economy ... how much will Abbott's action push up the cost of living pressures? How much more expensive will electricity and food be because of Abbott's action of profiteering for the carbon lobby, for Lib's owner, Clive Palmer? Don't wait for an answer green ... they don't have one because the reality is they don't really want to repeal it .... if they did they would have those answers all sorted by now ... they've had plenty of time which one are you: DUMB or DUMBER or perhaps even DUMBERER. it has been explained hundreds of times the various options for a CT repeal. Ok dumbest ... I'll explain it to you again ... it will never work .. what you explained is a hypothetical that will NEVER happen... ABBOTT will NEVER go to a DD , no matter how many times you repeat it No matter how many times you repeat that limp argument of yours that Abbott can't/won't go to a DD, it's obvious it's what you HOPE for, [highlight]not what you KNOW can/will happen[/highlight]. Rubbish the requirments of the process are well documented. Following a huge victory in 2013 which he expects a DD in 2015 can only cost him seats - its blatently obvious. He will not take an option from which he can only lose. I've got news for you sunshine ... you don't know what will happen either .... I bet you didn't think you would end up with a hung parliament .... we're talking about predicting future events ... no one KNOWS what will happen now do they? such an bright fellow hmm... did you know (well of course you didnt) that a number of commentators at the time were looking at the polls and predicting either a 1 seat majority or a MINORITY govt. So yes,. plenty were predicting that as a strong possibility. If you read political history you might learn that a lot of seemingly odd events are quite predictable. Youc an never be 100% right but you can certianly be a lot closer than you seem to think.

of course there were .. It;s easy to find them after the fact .. i bet even Allan Jones knew  (now)... I also bet if you looked hard enough you would find predictions for every possible outcome to next years election ... doesn't mean that you KNEW what was going to happen .. Like I said in  another thread .. comprehension isn't your strong suit is it?

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 11:31am:

And you presumption that a DD will cost Abbot seats is just that - a presumption. If the DD is held to right a wrong inflicted by a senate that refuses to honour a massive mandate, then it is the opposition parties (greens and ALP) that will lose seats. Voters hate being forced to early elections but even more they hate being told that their votes are being ignored.

That's what I thought

The ALP and Greens will be forced to make 2 choices:

(1) Stick with the carbon tax. This gives Abbott the perfect trigger to tell voters these people are stopping him from repealing therefore he's forced to go to an election. The ALP and Greens Senators will be wiped out!!! I guess only roaches like Wong and Milne would survive

(2) Vote with the LIBs. While this saves their neck in the short term. Abbott will use this fact at the next election. Therefore they just stayed their execution


These are the likely scenarios.

Lefties will tell us that Abbott would not dare to call a DD. Based on what? There's nothing to stop him. If anything the overwhelming election result would spur him on.

Maqqa wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:56pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 11:31am: And you presumption that a DD will cost Abbot seats is just that - a presumption. If the DD is held to right a wrong inflicted by a senate that refuses to honour a massive mandate, then it is the opposition parties (greens and ALP) that will lose seats. Voters hate being forced to early elections but even more they hate being told that their votes are being ignored. That's what I thought The ALP and Greens will be forced to make 2 choices: (1) Stick with the carbon tax. This gives Abbott the perfect trigger to tell voters these people are stopping him from repealing therefore he's forced to go to an election. The ALP and Greens Senators will be wiped out!!! I guess only roaches like Wong and Milne would survive (2) Vote with the LIBs. While this saves their neck in the short term. Abbott will use this fact at the next election. Therefore they just stayed their execution These are the likely scenarios. Lefties will tell us that Abbott would not dare to call a DD. Based on what? There's nothing to stop him. If anything the overwhelming election result would spur him on.

Based on the fact that people are as desperate as he is to grab power usually don't risk loosing it if they can avoid it ....

John Smith wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 8:00pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 7:56pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 11:31am: And you presumption that a DD will cost Abbot seats is just that - a presumption. If the DD is held to right a wrong inflicted by a senate that refuses to honour a massive mandate, then it is the opposition parties (greens and ALP) that will lose seats. Voters hate being forced to early elections but even more they hate being told that their votes are being ignored. That's what I thought The ALP and Greens will be forced to make 2 choices: (1) Stick with the carbon tax. This gives Abbott the perfect trigger to tell voters these people are stopping him from repealing therefore he's forced to go to an election. The ALP and Greens Senators will be wiped out!!! I guess only roaches like Wong and Milne would survive (2) Vote with the LIBs. While this saves their neck in the short term. Abbott will use this fact at the next election. Therefore they just stayed their execution These are the likely scenarios. Lefties will tell us that Abbott would not dare to call a DD. Based on what? There's nothing to stop him. If anything the overwhelming election result would spur him on. Based on the fact that people are as desperate as he is to grab power usually don't risk loosing it if they can avoid it ....

But he just got an overwhelming mandate to repeal the carbon tax.

If there was any "right" time to call another election it would be after this mandate.

What is the risk if he gets to blame it on the Greens and ALP.

The risk is all on the Greens and ALP of losing even more seats

Maqqa wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 8:03pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 8:00pm: Maqqa wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 7:56pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 11:31am: And you presumption that a DD will cost Abbot seats is just that - a presumption. If the DD is held to right a wrong inflicted by a senate that refuses to honour a massive mandate, then it is the opposition parties (greens and ALP) that will lose seats. Voters hate being forced to early elections but even more they hate being told that their votes are being ignored. That's what I thought The ALP and Greens will be forced to make 2 choices: (1) Stick with the carbon tax. This gives Abbott the perfect trigger to tell voters these people are stopping him from repealing therefore he's forced to go to an election. The ALP and Greens Senators will be wiped out!!! I guess only roaches like Wong and Milne would survive (2) Vote with the LIBs. While this saves their neck in the short term. Abbott will use this fact at the next election. Therefore they just stayed their execution These are the likely scenarios. Lefties will tell us that Abbott would not dare to call a DD. Based on what? There's nothing to stop him. If anything the overwhelming election result would spur him on. Based on the fact that people are as desperate as he is to grab power usually don't risk loosing it if they can avoid it .... But he just got an overwhelming mandate to repeal the carbon tax. If there was any "right" time to call another election it would be after this mandate. What is the risk if he gets to blame it on the Greens and ALP. The risk is all on the Greens and ALP of losing even more seats

Calling another election after just gaining power (assuming he was to win of course) would still be a unnecessary risk ... not something he would take

freediver wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:50pm:

Quote: Not even close. I asked you for YOUR position - not quoting someone elses amoral position. It is my position Longy. Whose do you think it is? I really don't get why people go on about what a political party is honour bound to do. This isn't the knights of the round table. It is politics. They will be judged at election time.

Exactly. This notion that one side or the other needs to honour some mythical "mandate" is complete BS put by lazy idiots. The members need to honour the position they put at the election. That's why they got elected. If that means voting differently to some majority of other members then so be it. THAT is what they are there to do.

Rudd tried to milk his mandate on climate change for all it was worth. Look where it got him.

Maqqa is right though, but they would need a very clear mandate. I dont see that happening at the next election. The coalition have focussed so hard on the 'lie' that Gillard told rather than the merits of the policy. Hopefully they will have a clearer policy well before the election, and the election focusses on that.

freediver wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 8:38pm:

Rudd tried to milk his mandate on climate change for all it was worth. Look where it got him. Maqqa is right though, but they would need a very clear mandate. I dont see that happening at the next election. The coalition have focussed so hard on the 'lie' that Gillard told rather than the merits of the policy. Hopefully they will have a clearer policy well before the election, and the election focusses on that.

Rudd took liberties with his so called mandate because he claimed a mandate on just about everything. And when he took too many liberties - the voters through the polls and eventually his party took him down

he had a mandate on Workchoices, the Apology and Ratification of Kyoto. But the rest was window dressing.

Even with the Ratification 53% of Australians didn't even know the consequences (btw 53% is what he won the election by)

freediver wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:50pm:

Quote: Not even close. I asked you for YOUR position - not quoting someone elses amoral position. It is my position Longy. Whose do you think it is? I really don't get why people go on about what a political party is honour bound to do. This isn't the knights of the round table. It is politics. They will be judged at election time.

youare on record as bemoaning the behaviour of politicians bu t here you are essentially granting them carte blanche to behave as they want between elections. And best of all, you seem to exalt in the potential for a party that is SMASHED at an election to refuse to obey the clear will of the people by virtue of an electoral anomolay. is this really your position? It sounds a little bit like 'do whatever you want and can get away with'.

As one of the gradually reducing group of intelligent people on here it is a pretty lame attitude.

John Smith wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 7:55pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 5:56pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 5:40pm: Dnarever wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:37pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 8:57pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 8:54pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 6:11pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:21am: ____ wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:17am: Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:11am: Nothing to discuss - the carbon tax will be repealed by the LIBs 63% of Australians rejects the Carbon Tax 57% of Australians want the LIBs to repeal it So suck it up princess!!! When will he repeal it. How will he repeal it, since the majority of the senate will oppose it. How much will Abbott pay in compensation to industry, and how will this compensation be funded? And if he removes the carbon compensation, what of the carbon pricing in the economy ... how much will Abbott's action push up the cost of living pressures? How much more expensive will electricity and food be because of Abbott's action of profiteering for the carbon lobby, for Lib's owner, Clive Palmer? Don't wait for an answer green ... they don't have one because the reality is they don't really want to repeal it .... if they did they would have those answers all sorted by now ... they've had plenty of time which one are you: DUMB or DUMBER or perhaps even DUMBERER. it has been explained hundreds of times the various options for a CT repeal. Ok dumbest ... I'll explain it to you again ... it will never work .. what you explained is a hypothetical that will NEVER happen... ABBOTT will NEVER go to a DD , no matter how many times you repeat it No matter how many times you repeat that limp argument of yours that Abbott can't/won't go to a DD, it's obvious it's what you HOPE for, [highlight]not what you KNOW can/will happen[/highlight]. Rubbish the requirments of the process are well documented. Following a huge victory in 2013 which he expects a DD in 2015 can only cost him seats - its blatently obvious. He will not take an option from which he can only lose. I've got news for you sunshine ... you don't know what will happen either .... I bet you didn't think you would end up with a hung parliament .... we're talking about predicting future events ... no one KNOWS what will happen now do they? such an bright fellow hmm... did you know (well of course you didnt) that a number of commentators at the time were looking at the polls and predicting either a 1 seat majority or a MINORITY govt. So yes,. plenty were predicting that as a strong possibility. If you read political history you might learn that a lot of seemingly odd events are quite predictable. Youc an never be 100% right but you can certianly be a lot closer than you seem to think. of course there were .. It;s easy to find them after the fact .. i bet even Allan Jones knew  (now)... I also bet if you looked hard enough you would find predictions for every possible outcome to next years election ... doesn't mean that you KNEW what was going to happen .. Like I said in  another thread .. comprehension isn't your strong suit is it?

the polls were showing 50/50 dimwit. of COURSE people were looking at the possibility of a hung parliament. and they were.

Gist wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 8:25pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 7:50pm: Quote: Not even close. I asked you for YOUR position - not quoting someone elses amoral position. It is my position Longy. Whose do you think it is? I really don't get why people go on about what a political party is honour bound to do. This isn't the knights of the round table. It is politics. They will be judged at election time. Exactly. This notion that one side or the other needs to honour some mythical "mandate" is complete BS put by lazy idiots. The members need to honour the position they put at the election. That's why they got elected. If that means voting differently to some majority of other members then so be it. THAT is what they are there to do.

you mean like NOT putting up a Carbon Tax??? did you even THINK as you wrote that? If the ALP thought that way then the carbon tax wouldnt have even gotten off the ground.

freediver wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 8:38pm:

Rudd tried to milk his mandate on climate change for all it was worth. Look where it got him. Maqqa is right though, but they would need a very clear mandate. I dont see that happening at the next election. The coalition have focussed so hard on the 'lie' that Gillard told rather than the merits of the policy. Hopefully they will have a clearer policy well before the election, and the election focusses on that.

clear mandate? with an election pretty much fought over the carbon tax and acheiving a near record majority, precisely what else do you want? A plebisctite at the same time?

You seem to be trying to redefine the concept of mandate so as to not be beholden to one.

The post election CT repeal bill will be a test of honour and morality for the ALP. The choice they make might define the tone and morality of poltiics for decades to come. While so many ALP MPs have faux anger at how parliament has become so bitter, they hold in their hands the opporunity to right a wrong or be destroyed by it.

It only needs a couple of labor senators to decide to be honourable.

It's a long bow being drawn saying a federal election in over a year will be a referendum on the carbon levy.

The only one pushing a carbon levy repeal is Mr Abbott and current polling shows he is unlikely to be leading Liberals considering how much he is holding the party back.

The more likely Liberal leader at the next election is Turnbull, and he supports carbon pricing.

The next election will be on issues of the day.

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 10:16pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 7:55pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 5:56pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 5:40pm: Dnarever wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:37pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 8:57pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 8:54pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 6:11pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:21am: ____ wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:17am: Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:11am: Nothing to discuss - the carbon tax will be repealed by the LIBs 63% of Australians rejects the Carbon Tax 57% of Australians want the LIBs to repeal it So suck it up princess!!! When will he repeal it. How will he repeal it, since the majority of the senate will oppose it. How much will Abbott pay in compensation to industry, and how will this compensation be funded? And if he removes the carbon compensation, what of the carbon pricing in the economy ... how much will Abbott's action push up the cost of living pressures? How much more expensive will electricity and food be because of Abbott's action of profiteering for the carbon lobby, for Lib's owner, Clive Palmer? Don't wait for an answer green ... they don't have one because the reality is they don't really want to repeal it .... if they did they would have those answers all sorted by now ... they've had plenty of time which one are you: DUMB or DUMBER or perhaps even DUMBERER. it has been explained hundreds of times the various options for a CT repeal. Ok dumbest ... I'll explain it to you again ... it will never work .. what you explained is a hypothetical that will NEVER happen... ABBOTT will NEVER go to a DD , no matter how many times you repeat it No matter how many times you repeat that limp argument of yours that Abbott can't/won't go to a DD, it's obvious it's what you HOPE for, [highlight]not what you KNOW can/will happen[/highlight]. Rubbish the requirments of the process are well documented. Following a huge victory in 2013 which he expects a DD in 2015 can only cost him seats - its blatently obvious. He will not take an option from which he can only lose. I've got news for you sunshine ... you don't know what will happen either .... I bet you didn't think you would end up with a hung parliament .... we're talking about predicting future events ... no one KNOWS what will happen now do they? such an bright fellow hmm... did you know (well of course you didnt) that a number of commentators at the time were looking at the polls and predicting either a 1 seat majority or a MINORITY govt. So yes,. plenty were predicting that as a strong possibility. If you read political history you might learn that a lot of seemingly odd events are quite predictable. Youc an never be 100% right but you can certianly be a lot closer than you seem to think. of course there were .. It;s easy to find them after the fact .. i bet even Allan Jones knew  (now)... I also bet if you looked hard enough you would find predictions for every possible outcome to next years election ... doesn't mean that you KNEW what was going to happen .. Like I said in  another thread .. comprehension isn't your strong suit is it? the polls were showing 50/50 dimwit. of COURSE people were looking at the possibility of a hung parliament. and they were.

you really are stupid aren't you .... You didn't  KNOW anything ... it's easy to say they knew after the fact ...

John Smith wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 10:43pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 10:16pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 7:55pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 5:56pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 5:40pm: Dnarever wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:37pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 8:57pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 8:54pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 6:11pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:21am: ____ wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:17am: Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:11am: Nothing to discuss - the carbon tax will be repealed by the LIBs 63% of Australians rejects the Carbon Tax 57% of Australians want the LIBs to repeal it So suck it up princess!!! When will he repeal it. How will he repeal it, since the majority of the senate will oppose it. How much will Abbott pay in compensation to industry, and how will this compensation be funded? And if he removes the carbon compensation, what of the carbon pricing in the economy ... how much will Abbott's action push up the cost of living pressures? How much more expensive will electricity and food be because of Abbott's action of profiteering for the carbon lobby, for Lib's owner, Clive Palmer? Don't wait for an answer green ... they don't have one because the reality is they don't really want to repeal it .... if they did they would have those answers all sorted by now ... they've had plenty of time which one are you: DUMB or DUMBER or perhaps even DUMBERER. it has been explained hundreds of times the various options for a CT repeal. Ok dumbest ... I'll explain it to you again ... it will never work .. what you explained is a hypothetical that will NEVER happen... ABBOTT will NEVER go to a DD , no matter how many times you repeat it No matter how many times you repeat that limp argument of yours that Abbott can't/won't go to a DD, it's obvious it's what you HOPE for, [highlight]not what you KNOW can/will happen[/highlight]. Rubbish the requirments of the process are well documented. Following a huge victory in 2013 which he expects a DD in 2015 can only cost him seats - its blatently obvious. He will not take an option from which he can only lose. I've got news for you sunshine ... you don't know what will happen either .... I bet you didn't think you would end up with a hung parliament .... we're talking about predicting future events ... no one KNOWS what will happen now do they? such an bright fellow hmm... did you know (well of course you didnt) that a number of commentators at the time were looking at the polls and predicting either a 1 seat majority or a MINORITY govt. So yes,. plenty were predicting that as a strong possibility. If you read political history you might learn that a lot of seemingly odd events are quite predictable. Youc an never be 100% right but you can certianly be a lot closer than you seem to think. of course there were .. It;s easy to find them after the fact .. i bet even Allan Jones knew  (now)... I also bet if you looked hard enough you would find predictions for every possible outcome to next years election ... doesn't mean that you KNEW what was going to happen .. Like I said in  another thread .. comprehension isn't your strong suit is it? the polls were showing 50/50 dimwit. of COURSE people were looking at the possibility of a hung parliament. and they were. you really are stupid aren't you .... You didn't  KNOW anything ... it's easy to say they knew after the fact ...

Wow, just wow. The polls were showing a 50/50 spilt. That means a hung parliament. Der.

Gillard/labor knew it like the rest of us. That is why they lied to us.

This PM, of all people, should know better than to make predictions about things that will never happen. Her track record is abysmal on this. For example, "There will be no cabon tax under a government I lead". Now she is saying the carbon tax will never be repealed. I hope she is able to handle the disappointment when she's proven wrong on that too!  :)

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 10:18pm:

you mean like NOT putting up a Carbon Tax??? did you even THINK as you wrote that? If the ALP thought that way then the carbon tax wouldnt have even gotten off the ground.

Then they should learn their lesson and honour what they stood for in future. Regardless of any mewling idiocy about a "mandate". But a moral retard such as yourself would not understand such an argument.

This Carbon Tax is toast Nazis - its toast.

progressiveslol wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 6:38am:

John Smith wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 10:43pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 10:16pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 7:55pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 5:56pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 5:40pm: Dnarever wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:37pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 8:57pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 8:54pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 6:11pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:21am: ____ wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:17am: Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:11am: Nothing to discuss - the carbon tax will be repealed by the LIBs 63% of Australians rejects the Carbon Tax 57% of Australians want the LIBs to repeal it So suck it up princess!!! When will he repeal it. How will he repeal it, since the majority of the senate will oppose it. How much will Abbott pay in compensation to industry, and how will this compensation be funded? And if he removes the carbon compensation, what of the carbon pricing in the economy ... how much will Abbott's action push up the cost of living pressures? How much more expensive will electricity and food be because of Abbott's action of profiteering for the carbon lobby, for Lib's owner, Clive Palmer? Don't wait for an answer green ... they don't have one because the reality is they don't really want to repeal it .... if they did they would have those answers all sorted by now ... they've had plenty of time which one are you: DUMB or DUMBER or perhaps even DUMBERER. it has been explained hundreds of times the various options for a CT repeal. Ok dumbest ... I'll explain it to you again ... it will never work .. what you explained is a hypothetical that will NEVER happen... ABBOTT will NEVER go to a DD , no matter how many times you repeat it No matter how many times you repeat that limp argument of yours that Abbott can't/won't go to a DD, it's obvious it's what you HOPE for, [highlight]not what you KNOW can/will happen[/highlight]. Rubbish the requirments of the process are well documented. Following a huge victory in 2013 which he expects a DD in 2015 can only cost him seats - its blatently obvious. He will not take an option from which he can only lose. I've got news for you sunshine ... you don't know what will happen either .... I bet you didn't think you would end up with a hung parliament .... we're talking about predicting future events ... no one KNOWS what will happen now do they? such an bright fellow hmm... did you know (well of course you didnt) that a number of commentators at the time were looking at the polls and predicting either a 1 seat majority or a MINORITY govt. So yes,. plenty were predicting that as a strong possibility. If you read political history you might learn that a lot of seemingly odd events are quite predictable. Youc an never be 100% right but you can certianly be a lot closer than you seem to think. of course there were .. It;s easy to find them after the fact .. i bet even Allan Jones knew  (now)... I also bet if you looked hard enough you would find predictions for every possible outcome to next years election ... doesn't mean that you KNEW what was going to happen .. Like I said in  another thread .. comprehension isn't your strong suit is it? the polls were showing 50/50 dimwit. of COURSE people were looking at the possibility of a hung parliament. and they were. you really are stupid aren't you .... You didn't  KNOW anything ... it's easy to say they knew after the fact ... Wow, just wow. The polls were showing a 50/50 spilt. That means a hung parliament. Der. Gillard/labor knew it like the rest of us. That is why they lied to us.

So you KNEW it was going to be a hung parliament ... how much did you win? surely if you knew the outcome you would have had a wager? the odds would have been pretty good considering we hadn't had a hung parliament in something like 50 years .....

John Smith wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 10:15am:

So you KNEW it was going to be a hung parliament ... how much did you win? surely if you knew the outcome you would have had a wager? the odds would have been pretty good considering we hadn't had a hung parliament in something like 50 years .....

Didn't you know? longmoron knows all:

http://www.karldenninger.com/images/soothsayer.jpg

John Smith wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 10:15am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jun 12th, 2012 at 6:38am: John Smith wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 10:43pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 10:16pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 7:55pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 5:56pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 5:40pm: Dnarever wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:37pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 8:57pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 8:54pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 6:11pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:21am: ____ wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:17am: Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:11am: Nothing to discuss - the carbon tax will be repealed by the LIBs 63% of Australians rejects the Carbon Tax 57% of Australians want the LIBs to repeal it So suck it up princess!!! When will he repeal it. How will he repeal it, since the majority of the senate will oppose it. How much will Abbott pay in compensation to industry, and how will this compensation be funded? And if he removes the carbon compensation, what of the carbon pricing in the economy ... how much will Abbott's action push up the cost of living pressures? How much more expensive will electricity and food be because of Abbott's action of profiteering for the carbon lobby, for Lib's owner, Clive Palmer? Don't wait for an answer green ... they don't have one because the reality is they don't really want to repeal it .... if they did they would have those answers all sorted by now ... they've had plenty of time which one are you: DUMB or DUMBER or perhaps even DUMBERER. it has been explained hundreds of times the various options for a CT repeal. Ok dumbest ... I'll explain it to you again ... it will never work .. what you explained is a hypothetical that will NEVER happen... ABBOTT will NEVER go to a DD , no matter how many times you repeat it No matter how many times you repeat that limp argument of yours that Abbott can't/won't go to a DD, it's obvious it's what you HOPE for, [highlight]not what you KNOW can/will happen[/highlight]. Rubbish the requirments of the process are well documented. Following a huge victory in 2013 which he expects a DD in 2015 can only cost him seats - its blatently obvious. He will not take an option from which he can only lose. I've got news for you sunshine ... you don't know what will happen either .... I bet you didn't think you would end up with a hung parliament .... we're talking about predicting future events ... no one KNOWS what will happen now do they? such an bright fellow hmm... did you know (well of course you didnt) that a number of commentators at the time were looking at the polls and predicting either a 1 seat majority or a MINORITY govt. So yes,. plenty were predicting that as a strong possibility. If you read political history you might learn that a lot of seemingly odd events are quite predictable. Youc an never be 100% right but you can certianly be a lot closer than you seem to think. of course there were .. It;s easy to find them after the fact .. i bet even Allan Jones knew  (now)... I also bet if you looked hard enough you would find predictions for every possible outcome to next years election ... doesn't mean that you KNEW what was going to happen .. Like I said in  another thread .. comprehension isn't your strong suit is it? the polls were showing 50/50 dimwit. of COURSE people were looking at the possibility of a hung parliament. and they were. you really are stupid aren't you .... You didn't  KNOW anything ... it's easy to say they knew after the fact ... Wow, just wow. The polls were showing a 50/50 spilt. That means a hung parliament. Der. Gillard/labor knew it like the rest of us. That is why they lied to us. So you KNEW it was going to be a hung parliament ... how much did you win? surely if you knew the outcome you would have had a wager? the odds would have been pretty good considering we hadn't had a hung parliament in something like 50 years .....

Going by the polls, many knew it was possible, except dumb fks

progressiveslol wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 10:28am:

John Smith wrote on Jun 12th, 2012 at 10:15am: progressiveslol wrote on Jun 12th, 2012 at 6:38am: John Smith wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 10:43pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 10:16pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 7:55pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 5:56pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 5:40pm: Dnarever wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:37pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 8:57pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 8:54pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 6:11pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:21am: ____ wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:17am: Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:11am: Nothing to discuss - the carbon tax will be repealed by the LIBs 63% of Australians rejects the Carbon Tax 57% of Australians want the LIBs to repeal it So suck it up princess!!! When will he repeal it. How will he repeal it, since the majority of the senate will oppose it. How much will Abbott pay in compensation to industry, and how will this compensation be funded? And if he removes the carbon compensation, what of the carbon pricing in the economy ... how much will Abbott's action push up the cost of living pressures? How much more expensive will electricity and food be because of Abbott's action of profiteering for the carbon lobby, for Lib's owner, Clive Palmer? Don't wait for an answer green ... they don't have one because the reality is they don't really want to repeal it .... if they did they would have those answers all sorted by now ... they've had plenty of time which one are you: DUMB or DUMBER or perhaps even DUMBERER. it has been explained hundreds of times the various options for a CT repeal. Ok dumbest ... I'll explain it to you again ... it will never work .. what you explained is a hypothetical that will NEVER happen... ABBOTT will NEVER go to a DD , no matter how many times you repeat it No matter how many times you repeat that limp argument of yours that Abbott can't/won't go to a DD, it's obvious it's what you HOPE for, [highlight]not what you KNOW can/will happen[/highlight]. Rubbish the requirments of the process are well documented. Following a huge victory in 2013 which he expects a DD in 2015 can only cost him seats - its blatently obvious. He will not take an option from which he can only lose. I've got news for you sunshine ... you don't know what will happen either .... I bet you didn't think you would end up with a hung parliament .... we're talking about predicting future events ... no one KNOWS what will happen now do they? such an bright fellow hmm... did you know (well of course you didnt) that a number of commentators at the time were looking at the polls and predicting either a 1 seat majority or a MINORITY govt. So yes,. plenty were predicting that as a strong possibility. If you read political history you might learn that a lot of seemingly odd events are quite predictable. Youc an never be 100% right but you can certianly be a lot closer than you seem to think. of course there were .. It;s easy to find them after the fact .. i bet even Allan Jones knew  (now)... I also bet if you looked hard enough you would find predictions for every possible outcome to next years election ... doesn't mean that you KNEW what was going to happen .. Like I said in  another thread .. comprehension isn't your strong suit is it? the polls were showing 50/50 dimwit. of COURSE people were looking at the possibility of a hung parliament. and they were. you really are stupid aren't you .... You didn't  KNOW anything ... it's easy to say they knew after the fact ... Wow, just wow. The polls were showing a 50/50 spilt. That means a hung parliament. Der. Gillard/labor knew it like the rest of us. That is why they lied to us. So you KNEW it was going to be a hung parliament ... how much did you win? surely if you knew the outcome you would have had a wager? the odds would have been pretty good considering we hadn't had a hung parliament in something like 50 years ..... Going by the polls, many knew it was possible, except dumb fks

it was possible ... it's also a possiblity that the next election will be a hung parliament ... nobody really thought we would have a hung parliament, they all come out of the woodwork after the fact ..... like longmoron, all the commentators started 'I knew i knew' 3 days after the election ....

John Smith wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 10:34am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jun 12th, 2012 at 10:28am: John Smith wrote on Jun 12th, 2012 at 10:15am: progressiveslol wrote on Jun 12th, 2012 at 6:38am: John Smith wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 10:43pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 10:16pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 7:55pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 5:56pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 5:40pm: Dnarever wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:37pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 8:57pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 8:54pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 6:11pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:21am: ____ wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:17am: Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:11am: Nothing to discuss - the carbon tax will be repealed by the LIBs 63% of Australians rejects the Carbon Tax 57% of Australians want the LIBs to repeal it So suck it up princess!!! When will he repeal it. How will he repeal it, since the majority of the senate will oppose it. How much will Abbott pay in compensation to industry, and how will this compensation be funded? And if he removes the carbon compensation, what of the carbon pricing in the economy ... how much will Abbott's action push up the cost of living pressures? How much more expensive will electricity and food be because of Abbott's action of profiteering for the carbon lobby, for Lib's owner, Clive Palmer? Don't wait for an answer green ... they don't have one because the reality is they don't really want to repeal it .... if they did they would have those answers all sorted by now ... they've had plenty of time which one are you: DUMB or DUMBER or perhaps even DUMBERER. it has been explained hundreds of times the various options for a CT repeal. Ok dumbest ... I'll explain it to you again ... it will never work .. what you explained is a hypothetical that will NEVER happen... ABBOTT will NEVER go to a DD , no matter how many times you repeat it No matter how many times you repeat that limp argument of yours that Abbott can't/won't go to a DD, it's obvious it's what you HOPE for, [highlight]not what you KNOW can/will happen[/highlight]. Rubbish the requirments of the process are well documented. Following a huge victory in 2013 which he expects a DD in 2015 can only cost him seats - its blatently obvious. He will not take an option from which he can only lose. I've got news for you sunshine ... you don't know what will happen either .... I bet you didn't think you would end up with a hung parliament .... we're talking about predicting future events ... no one KNOWS what will happen now do they? such an bright fellow hmm... did you know (well of course you didnt) that a number of commentators at the time were looking at the polls and predicting either a 1 seat majority or a MINORITY govt. So yes,. plenty were predicting that as a strong possibility. If you read political history you might learn that a lot of seemingly odd events are quite predictable. Youc an never be 100% right but you can certianly be a lot closer than you seem to think. of course there were .. It;s easy to find them after the fact .. i bet even Allan Jones knew  (now)... I also bet if you looked hard enough you would find predictions for every possible outcome to next years election ... doesn't mean that you KNEW what was going to happen .. Like I said in  another thread .. comprehension isn't your strong suit is it? the polls were showing 50/50 dimwit. of COURSE people were looking at the possibility of a hung parliament. and they were. you really are stupid aren't you .... You didn't  KNOW anything ... it's easy to say they knew after the fact ... Wow, just wow. The polls were showing a 50/50 spilt. That means a hung parliament. Der. Gillard/labor knew it like the rest of us. That is why they lied to us. So you KNEW it was going to be a hung parliament ... how much did you win? surely if you knew the outcome you would have had a wager? the odds would have been pretty good considering we hadn't had a hung parliament in something like 50 years ..... Going by the polls, many knew it was possible, except dumb fks it was possible ... it's also a possiblity that the next election will be a hung parliament ... nobody really thought we would have a hung parliament, they all come out of the woodwork after the fact ..... like longmoron, all the commentators started 'I knew i knew' 3 days after the election ....

The polls were showing a hung parliament before the election, not after. People knew it before the election via the polls, not after the election.

John Smith wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 10:43pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 10:16pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 7:55pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 5:56pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 5:40pm: Dnarever wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 9:37pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 8:57pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 8:54pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 6:11pm: John Smith wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:21am: ____ wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:17am: Maqqa wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 10:11am: Nothing to discuss - the carbon tax will be repealed by the LIBs 63% of Australians rejects the Carbon Tax 57% of Australians want the LIBs to repeal it So suck it up princess!!! When will he repeal it. How will he repeal it, since the majority of the senate will oppose it. How much will Abbott pay in compensation to industry, and how will this compensation be funded? And if he removes the carbon compensation, what of the carbon pricing in the economy ... how much will Abbott's action push up the cost of living pressures? How much more expensive will electricity and food be because of Abbott's action of profiteering for the carbon lobby, for Lib's owner, Clive Palmer? Don't wait for an answer green ... they don't have one because the reality is they don't really want to repeal it .... if they did they would have those answers all sorted by now ... they've had plenty of time which one are you: DUMB or DUMBER or perhaps even DUMBERER. it has been explained hundreds of times the various options for a CT repeal. Ok dumbest ... I'll explain it to you again ... it will never work .. what you explained is a hypothetical that will NEVER happen... ABBOTT will NEVER go to a DD , no matter how many times you repeat it No matter how many times you repeat that limp argument of yours that Abbott can't/won't go to a DD, it's obvious it's what you HOPE for, [highlight]not what you KNOW can/will happen[/highlight]. Rubbish the requirments of the process are well documented. Following a huge victory in 2013 which he expects a DD in 2015 can only cost him seats - its blatently obvious. He will not take an option from which he can only lose. I've got news for you sunshine ... you don't know what will happen either .... I bet you didn't think you would end up with a hung parliament .... we're talking about predicting future events ... no one KNOWS what will happen now do they? such an bright fellow hmm... did you know (well of course you didnt) that a number of commentators at the time were looking at the polls and predicting either a 1 seat majority or a MINORITY govt. So yes,. plenty were predicting that as a strong possibility. If you read political history you might learn that a lot of seemingly odd events are quite predictable. Youc an never be 100% right but you can certianly be a lot closer than you seem to think. of course there were .. It;s easy to find them after the fact .. i bet even Allan Jones knew  (now)... I also bet if you looked hard enough you would find predictions for every possible outcome to next years election ... doesn't mean that you KNEW what was going to happen .. Like I said in  another thread .. comprehension isn't your strong suit is it? the polls were showing 50/50 dimwit. of COURSE people were looking at the possibility of a hung parliament. and they were. you really are stupid aren't you .... You didn't  KNOW anything ... it's easy to say they knew after the fact ...

there was seriosu discussion at the time - including on here - of the possibility of a hung parliament. with polls at 50/50 that was always a strong possibility and was mentioned prior to the election.

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 12:51pm:

there was seriosu discussion at the time - including on here - of the possibility of a hung parliament. with polls at 50/50 that was always a strong possibility and was mentioned prior to the election.

From memory a few days before the election one poll came out about 50/50.

Much too late for it to matter in policy terms.

One of the other polls was suggesting a Labor win at the same time.

It got some vey late discussion in the media but not much else, most didn't believe it would eventuate.

This is a prediction made at some point in every election.

Dnarever wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 2:26pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 12th, 2012 at 12:51pm: there was seriosu discussion at the time - including on here - of the possibility of a hung parliament. with polls at 50/50 that was always a strong possibility and was mentioned prior to the election. From memory a few days before the election one poll came out about 50/50. Much too late for it to matter in policy terms. One of the other polls was suggesting a Labor win at the same time. It got some vey late discussion in the media but not much else, most didn't believe it would eventuate. This is a prediction made at some point in every election.

yes im sure there was a lot of talk about the possibility of howard winning a minority govt in 1996.

it is a simple fact that unless the polls are very close, NO ONE predicts a hung parliament. But in 2010 there was quite some discussion of it because of the largish number of indies and the 50/50 poll split.

all this trying to rewrite history is a little pathetic.

Maqqa wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 9:15pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 8:38pm: Rudd tried to milk his mandate on climate change for all it was worth. Look where it got him. Maqqa is right though, but they would need a very clear mandate. I dont see that happening at the next election. The coalition have focussed so hard on the 'lie' that Gillard told rather than the merits of the policy. Hopefully they will have a clearer policy well before the election, and the election focusses on that. Rudd took liberties with his so called mandate because he claimed a mandate on just about everything. And when he took too many liberties - the voters through the polls and eventually his party took him down he had a mandate on Workchoices, the Apology and Ratification of Kyoto. But the rest was window dressing. Even with the Ratification 53% of Australians didn't even know the consequences (btw 53% is what he won the election by)

Triggering a DD election is also a pretty big liberty to take.

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 10:14pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 7:50pm: Quote: Not even close. I asked you for YOUR position - not quoting someone elses amoral position. It is my position Longy. Whose do you think it is? I really don't get why people go on about what a political party is honour bound to do. This isn't the knights of the round table. It is politics. They will be judged at election time. youare on record as bemoaning the behaviour of politicians bu t here you are essentially granting them carte blanche to behave as they want between elections. And best of all, you seem to exalt in the potential for a party that is SMASHED at an election to refuse to obey the clear will of the people by virtue of an electoral anomolay. is this really your position? It sounds a little bit like 'do whatever you want and can get away with'. As one of the gradually reducing group of intelligent people on here it is a pretty lame attitude.

Actually Longy, if you read what I posted, you will see I am suggesting that we hold them accountable rather than just moaning about it.


longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 10:21pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 8:38pm: Rudd tried to milk his mandate on climate change for all it was worth. Look where it got him. Maqqa is right though, but they would need a very clear mandate. I dont see that happening at the next election. The coalition have focussed so hard on the 'lie' that Gillard told rather than the merits of the policy. Hopefully they will have a clearer policy well before the election, and the election focusses on that. clear mandate? with an election pretty much fought over the carbon tax and acheiving a near record majority, precisely what else do you want? A plebisctite at the same time? You seem to be trying to redefine the concept of mandate so as to not be beholden to one.

It is not a redefinition. It is just being honest about what sort of mandate the major parties have. If the people want to put absolute power in the hands of one party they will, and have done it before.

Mandates are funny things. Elections are never fought on one single issue - ever. Furthermore elections and plebiscites generally only have one of two possible outcomes (the last federal election being an exception), yet on any real issue there is an infinite spectrum of possible outcomes.

This talk of clear mandates always oversimilifies the matter.

Maqqa wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 9:15pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 8:38pm: Rudd tried to milk his mandate on climate change for all it was worth. Look where it got him. Maqqa is right though, but they would need a very clear mandate. I dont see that happening at the next election. The coalition have focussed so hard on the 'lie' that Gillard told rather than the merits of the policy. Hopefully they will have a clearer policy well before the election, and the election focusses on that. Rudd took liberties with his so called mandate because he claimed a mandate on just about everything. And when he took too many liberties - the voters through the polls and eventually his party took him down he had a mandate on Workchoices, the Apology and Ratification of Kyoto. But the rest was window dressing. Even with the Ratification 53% of Australians didn't even know the consequences (btw 53% is what he won the election by)

Both Labor and the Liberal went to the 2007 election with policies to impliment carbon trading and it was supported by virtually everyone.

I would think it is fair enough to claim a mandate when both Major partys campaign on implimenting one.

In the 2007 election the question was not if you want a carbon price but how will it opperate - Tnoy Abbnott was campaigning in support of this position.


Quote:

Even with the Ratification 53% of Australians didn't even know the consequences (btw 53% is what he won the election by

That was the same ratification which John Howard had committed to in his 1996 election campaign an example of an early non core promise.

The carbon tax will come into effect 1st July. Lefties are telling us that Gillard will give it 12 months to show the electorate that the sky is falling down before calling an election.

BTW - the chicken little comment did not come from Abbott. It was a senior Union official that first used it against the Carbon Tax around the 19th April.

It is clear and without doubt Abbott will go into the 2013 election with repealing the Carbon Tax as a major election issue.

You've all heard Gillard tell you that Abbott won't repeal it because it's too hard.

Let me give you and Gillard a history lesson.

Workchoices was introduced 2005.

Rudd went into the 2007 election promising to repeal Workchoices.

Workchoices was repealed in 2008 - 3 years after it took effect!!

So if Workchoices was repealed 3 years into it's life - then certainly the Carbon Tax can be repealed 1 year into it's life.

Dnarever wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 7:56pm:

Quote: Even with the Ratification 53% of Australians didn't even know the consequences (btw 53% is what he won the election by That was the same ratification which John Howard had committed to in his 1996 election campaign an example of an early non core promise.

Could you show us references to this please. Specifically the references should point to the Howard committing to "RATIFICATION"

freediver wrote on Jun 12^th, 2012 at 7:39pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 10:14pm: freediver wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 7:50pm: Quote: Not even close. I asked you for YOUR position - not quoting someone elses amoral position. It is my position Longy. Whose do you think it is? I really don't get why people go on about what a political party is honour bound to do. This isn't the knights of the round table. It is politics. They will be judged at election time. youare on record as bemoaning the behaviour of politicians bu t here you are essentially granting them carte blanche to behave as they want between elections. And best of all, you seem to exalt in the potential for a party that is SMASHED at an election to refuse to obey the clear will of the people by virtue of an electoral anomolay. is this really your position? It sounds a little bit like 'do whatever you want and can get away with'. As one of the gradually reducing group of intelligent people on here it is a pretty lame attitude. Actually Longy, if you read what I posted, you will see I am suggesting that we hold them accountable rather than just moaning about it. longweekend58 wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 10:21pm: freediver wrote on Jun 11th, 2012 at 8:38pm: Rudd tried to milk his mandate on climate change for all it was worth. Look where it got him. Maqqa is right though, but they would need a very clear mandate. I dont see that happening at the next election. The coalition have focussed so hard on the 'lie' that Gillard told rather than the merits of the policy. Hopefully they will have a clearer policy well before the election, and the election focusses on that. clear mandate? with an election pretty much fought over the carbon tax and acheiving a near record majority, precisely what else do you want? A plebisctite at the same time? You seem to be trying to redefine the concept of mandate so as to not be beholden to one. It is not a redefinition. It is just being honest about what sort of mandate the major parties have. If the people want to put absolute power in the hands of one party they will, and have done it before. Mandates are funny things. Elections are never fought on one single issue - ever. Furthermore elections and plebiscites generally only have one of two possible outcomes (the last federal election being an exception), yet on any real issue there is an infinite spectrum of possible outcomes. This talk of clear mandates always oversimilifies the matter.

rubbish. the 98 election was on the GST and pretty much nothing else.

the notion of mandate is always difficult and becomes impossible if you assume a black and white position such as you have. the 2007 election gave a clear and unequivocal mandate for the removal of workchoices.   the 2010 election gave no one a mandate for anything - not even govt.

you talk about holding govts accountable but only at elections as if there is no requirement for the govt to listen in between. I know you love the carbon tax, but mandates are matters of principle. The ultimate ends of what you are talking about is govts doing absolutely anythign they can to get into power and then utterly ignoring them when there. We have the right to expect better than that.

When Howard brought in workchoices he broke a convention of not implementing major polcieis without electroal support. Up until then it had been pretty well understood. That was bad. And in 2010, Gillard took it a step further byt promising one thing whiel clearly intending to do the opposite. And now you are trying to say that if the elction campaign is fought substantially over the Carbon tax and Abbott wins a significant majority that that means nothing? What are elections supposed to be? where we choose people who are under no obligation to do as they promise and can be thwarted by other people as well?

you often talk about making our political system more accountable, yet your every post on the matter says the opposite. We cant hold them ACCOUNTABLE unless we express clear EXPECTATIONS of them. ONe of those should be to obey their promises. A second should be to do what the electorat demands, regardless of your ability to thwart it.

its not a onerous obligation. it is called PRINCIPLE.

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 13^th, 2012 at 9:56am:

rubbish. the 98 election was on the GST and pretty much nothing else. .

There was a huge advertising push in that election saying that John Howard could be kept as PM and that the GST could be blocked in the senate.

In my view any mandate for the GST from that election is difficult to support.

Dnarever wrote on Jun 13^th, 2012 at 1:11pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 13th, 2012 at 9:56am: rubbish. the 98 election was on the GST and pretty much nothing else. . There was a huge advertising push in that election saying that John Howard could be kept as PM and that the GST could be blocked in the senate. In my view any mandate for the GST from that election is difficult to support.

But he went to the 98 election with the GST as his center-piece

Maqqa wrote on Jun 13^th, 2012 at 1:14pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jun 13th, 2012 at 1:11pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 13th, 2012 at 9:56am: rubbish. the 98 election was on the GST and pretty much nothing else. . There was a huge advertising push in that election saying that John Howard could be kept as PM and that the GST could be blocked in the senate. In my view any mandate for the GST from that election is difficult to support. But he went to the 98 election with the GST as his center-piece

There was advertising with independants and minor partys in the senate arguing in 1998 that you could elect Howard and block the GST in the senate by supporting them.

Many people took the option to vote for Howard in 98 but oppose him in the senate believing that they had put an end to the GST by doing that. Groups opposed to a GST in the senate clearly increased votes in that election.

Well abbott just said on TV that if he repeals the carbon tax he wont repeal the compensation. Just as well cause that "compensation" wasnt compensation @ all it was something that would been done anyway. Doesnt matter. Abbott will never be PM so topic is moot.

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 13^th, 2012 at 1:59pm:

Well abbott just said on TV that if he repeals the carbon tax he wont repeal the compensation. Just as well cause that "compensation" wasnt compensation @ all it was something that would been done anyway. Doesnt matter. Abbott will never be PM so topic is moot. SOB

So so specialise in making a fool of yourself.

This is the sign of an abusive authoritarian Government that tells the people, "you will never or you don't matter"....

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 13^th, 2012 at 6:12pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 13th, 2012 at 1:59pm: Well abbott just said on TV that if he repeals the carbon tax he wont repeal the compensation. Just as well cause that "compensation" wasnt compensation @ all it was something that would been done anyway. Doesnt matter. Abbott will never be PM so topic is moot. SOB So so specialise in making a fool of yourself.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1339503207

Abbott's support is collapsing

and

Liberals today continued their slide (primary ~ newspoll)

Are the two connected. Is Abbott dragging down the Lib primary vote?

http://resources.news.com.au/files/2012/06/12/1226392/417502-120612-newspoll.pdf

Quote:

you talk about holding govts accountable but only at elections as if there is no requirement for the govt to listen in between.

What else are you going to do in between elections? Whine about it on internet forums? Shoot someone? Sue the government over a broken election promise?


Quote:

I know you love the carbon tax, but mandates are matters of principle.

And election outcomes are matters of hundreds of principles.


Quote:

The ultimate ends of what you are talking about is govts doing absolutely anythign they can to get into power and then utterly ignoring them when there.

No Longy, you have it backwards. Political parties and even most independents are not out to get elected once. They are out to get elected over and over again.


Quote:

And now you are trying to say that if the elction campaign is fought substantially over the Carbon tax and Abbott wins a significant majority that that means nothing?

No Longy. Try sticking to what I actually say.


Quote:

you often talk about making our political system more accountable, yet your every post on the matter says the opposite.

Not if you respond to what my posts actually say rather than making up your own version instead.

freediver wrote on Jun 13^th, 2012 at 7:29pm:

Quote: you talk about holding govts accountable but only at elections as if there is no requirement for the govt to listen in between. What else are you going to do in between elections? Whine about it on internet forums? Shoot someone? Sue the government over a broken election promise? [quote]I know you love the carbon tax, but mandates are matters of principle.

And election outcomes are matters of hundreds of principles.


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The ultimate ends of what you are talking about is govts doing absolutely anythign they can to get into power and then utterly ignoring them when there.

No Longy, you have it backwards. Political parties and even most independents are not out to get elected once. They are out to get elected over and over again.


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And now you are trying to say that if the elction campaign is fought substantially over the Carbon tax and Abbott wins a significant majority that that means nothing?

No Longy. Try sticking to what I actually say.


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you often talk about making our political system more accountable, yet your every post on the matter says the opposite.

Not if you respond to what my posts actually say rather than making up your own version instead.[/quote]

how about making them LISTEN in the first place! You do that by - as a community - demanding that they uphold their promises and that they listen to you. You start by demanding of MPs that they obey the conventions and long-standing practices of parliament.