Skai TV gives first seat projections from their exit polls: Syriza 28% 124 seats, ND, 27.5% 73 seats, Pasok 13% 33 seats. I

Any one party would require 36-38% of the vote to form a workable majority. Ordinarily this would be 51% but a bonus 50 seats will given to the party in the lead, bringing the percentage down

Rumour going around the Syriza camp that Alexis Tsipras's wife has just given birth to their second child. A metaphor perhaps?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/greek-election-blog-2012/2012/jun/17/greek-elections-greece-polls-live?CMP=twt_gu

---

<<A metaphor perhaps?>>
......................................

Let's hope so. It looks like it's neck to neck at the moment. I don't know if people realize it, but this Greek vote means so much to the economies of the western world.

So it looks like the Greeks are up for more austerity measures and more suicides. More bandaid measures whilst the problem persists and worsens.

I know how they feel, under Campbell Newman my taxes and water have both gone up. He calls it paying down the debt, I call it austerity.

When you are in debt, the answer is not to borrow more and to cut back on your spending.

Only the fools would think you can do otherwise.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 18^th, 2012 at 9:27am:

When you are in debt, the answer is not to borrow more and to cut back on your spending. Only the fools would think you can do otherwise.

Sounds relatively simple doesn't it.
It's basic mathematics that even primary school children could understand.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 18^th, 2012 at 9:27am:

When you are in debt, the answer is not to borrow more and to cut back on your spending. Only the fools would think you can do otherwise.

Even that is not going to solve anything.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 18^th, 2012 at 9:27am:

When you are in debt, the answer is not to borrow more and to cut back on your spending. Only the fools would think you can do otherwise.

But will it save Greece and the Eurozone?

Only time will tell, but it's looking less likely by the day.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 18^th, 2012 at 10:43am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 18th, 2012 at 9:27am: When you are in debt, the answer is not to borrow more and to cut back on your spending. Only the fools would think you can do otherwise. Sounds relatively simple doesn't it. It's basic mathematics that even primary school children could understand.

Some things may sound relatively simple, BUT
Some times 2+2 doesn't =4, AND
Some times the dilemma's are much more , as explained in the following -
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1339561528

Sounds so simple doesn't it? So why, when the problem is that everybody is in debt but nobody knows what their bottom line is, should growth be an answer? And how is a corner shop going to shoulder the debt of a multinational superstore chain and pay it off?

These are not the austere times, these are the greed and corruption times.

The Greeks deferred, they solved nothing. They should've heeded the words of Frank Herbert.

The Bene Gesserit litany against fear.

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

The Greek he's genius!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvl9N9GdraQ

Quote:

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

Sounds a bit like somebody who had never entereth into fear IMO.

Fear is there for a reason, you should respect it.
It is very worthwhile.

I fear the Greeks gaining respect and usurping money for their laziness and ill-informed cultural supremacy.

The Greeks are nothing but crybaby idiots and should be treated as such.

Will you say the same thing about Italy and Spain and all the other European nations when their turn comes?

What happens when Germany runs out of money, which they will. The entire Euro zone will fall eventually. Are they all as lazy as Greece?

Yes, some Asian countries have worked harder to catch up. And catch up they have.

It's a bogus piece of thinking to think that we are all relying on Germany to bail out the historically weak European economies. They have always been weak anyway.

Thanks to Keating, we are far more aligned to emerging economies in Asia.
We don't need to give a rat's rosy ringhole about what happens in Europe, 'cause they will be relying on us.

We should be aligning to Asia, instead we are building American bases here to p1ss them off. There will come a time when we need Asia but they might not be so ready to accept us.

Why do we want to put a stop to what may become our biggest trading partner, makes no sense.

Amadd wrote on Jun 19^th, 2012 at 8:20am:

Yes, some Asian countries have worked harder to catch up. And catch up they have. It's a bogus piece of thinking to think that we are all relying on Germany to bail out the historically weak European economies. They have always been weak anyway. Thanks to Keating, we are far more aligned to emerging economies in Asia. We don't need to give a rat's rosy ringhole about what happens in Europe, 'cause they will be relying on us.

Well who's 'us' Amadd? If you look to Asia to provide the model 'us' is the RICH who get and maintain their wealth by exploiting.

Is working in sweat shops for bugger all, your recommendation to Greeks, Italians, Spanish and Irish workers or all workers everywhere?

The Greeks borrowed too much and must pay it back, we are told, by Germans. But Germans didn't like 'Austere' too much themselves when made to pay back the damage caused by rampaging in WW1. So they rampaged again in the forties and got more lenient conditions imposed on them, so in a sense they won WW2.

Germany says the Greeks borrowed too much... but they want to lend more. How does that work? Can you blame the Greeks? Australians are the most leveraged citizens on Earth, are things going to get 'austere' here? Apparently because wages and conditions are being erroded now and these are the 'good' times, when we have the best economy on the planet.

If the rich borrow too much they go bankrupt; but it never seems to effect their lifestyle. Or their business goes into liquidation, but they are not their business, that's a seperate entity. They start another one. Looks to be a good system. One the Greeks should try. Of course their German bankers want to control them and bleed them. Well silly investors have only themselves to blame.

F;ck 'growth' and all who sail on her. A game of MONOPOLYtm cannot last forever, even when the 'winners' refuse to accept they've won and keep the game going by 'letting off' and lending more. Sooner or later frustration builds and the board goes in the air. Capitalism is the concentration of money into bigger and bigger parcels, it's not an infinite process. Greeks are not to blame for the way the dice roll.

Edit: Hey Pansi, watched your video after posting, great minds think alike  ;D

When the EU was formed the rules and regulations weren't followed by certain countries. They are the countries now in strife.

angeleyes wrote on Jun 19^th, 2012 at 9:24am:

When the EU was formed the rules and regulations weren't followed by certain countries. They are the countries now in strife. Banks used to have rules. They abandoned them for greater profits. Who broke 'the rules' Greece or the EU? Who was refereeing this game? Where's the power?

Grey...grow a brain please?

That was ridiculous.

Amadd wrote on Jun 19^th, 2012 at 9:43am:

Grey...grow a brain please? That was ridiculous.

No, your 'reply' is ridiculous... and brainless.

Quote:

No, your 'reply' is ridiculous... and brainless.

Quote:

Well who's 'us' Amadd? If you look to Asia to provide the model 'us' is the RICH who get and maintain their wealth by exploiting.

Well "us" is Australia and it is AOK for Asian countries to rise up in a democratic world.
Unionism sold itself out. It's a damned pity for us they sold out our intentions, but hey, you gotta respect what nature has to say also.

We are all out for ourselves. We must play it that way and stop crying about it.

Amadd wrote on Jun 19^th, 2012 at 9:43am:

Grey...grow a brain please? That was ridiculous.

Can you explain what it was ridiculous???

Have a look at what you might find ridiculous here please.


Quote:

Well who's 'us' Amadd? If you look to Asia to provide the model 'us' is the RICH who get and maintain their wealth by exploiting. Is working in sweat shops for bugger all, your recommendation to Greeks, Italians, Spanish and Irish workers or all workers everywhere? The Greeks borrowed too much and must pay it back, we are told, by Germans. But Germans didn't like 'Austere' too much themselves when made to pay back the damage caused by rampaging in WW1. So they rampaged again in the forties and got more lenient conditions imposed on them, so in a sense they won WW2. Germany says the Greeks borrowed too much... but they want to lend more. How does that work? Can you blame the Greeks? Australians are the most leveraged citizens on Earth, are things going to get 'austere' here? Apparently because wages and conditions are being erroded now and these are the 'good' times, when we have the best economy on the planet. If the rich borrow too much they go bankrupt; but it never seems to effect their lifestyle. Or their business goes into liquidation, but they are not their business, that's a seperate entity. They start another one. Looks to be a good system. One the Greeks should try. Of course their German bankers want to control them and bleed them. Well silly investors have only themselves to blame. F;ck 'growth' and all who sail on her. A game of MONOPOLYtm cannot last forever, even when the 'winners' refuse to accept they've won and keep the game going by 'letting off' and lending more. Sooner or later frustration builds and the board goes in the air. Capitalism is the concentration of money into bigger and bigger parcels, it's not an infinite process. Greeks are not to blame for the way the dice roll. Edit: Hey Pansi, watched your video after posting, great minds think alike  Grin

Amadd wrote on Jun 19^th, 2012 at 9:55am:

Quote: No, your 'reply' is ridiculous... and brainless. [quote] Well who's 'us' Amadd? If you look to Asia to provide the model 'us' is the RICH who get and maintain their wealth by exploiting.

Well "us" is Australia and it is AOK for Asian countries to rise up in a democratic world.
Unionism sold itself out. It's a damned pity for us they sold out our intentions, but hey, you gotta respect what nature has to say also.

We are all out for ourselves. We must play it that way and stop crying about it.[/quote]

If we were all out for ourselves we'd trade amongst ourselves and develop our own country and its resources. Way to go IMO, at least until the 'level playing field' is level.

Yes unions are corrupted, they need deregulating and the right to strike.  Striking is open and honest, price fixing is not. There are more associations amongst business than unions but they mustn't collude? Ha!

Amadd wrote on Jun 19^th, 2012 at 10:03am:

Have a look at what you might find ridiculous here please. Quote: Well who's 'us' Amadd? If you look to Asia to provide the model 'us' is the RICH who get and maintain their wealth by exploiting. Is working in sweat shops for bugger all, your recommendation to Greeks, Italians, Spanish and Irish workers or all workers everywhere? The Greeks borrowed too much and must pay it back, we are told, by Germans. But Germans didn't like 'Austere' too much themselves when made to pay back the damage caused by rampaging in WW1. So they rampaged again in the forties and got more lenient conditions imposed on them, so in a sense they won WW2. Germany says the Greeks borrowed too much... but they want to lend more. How does that work? Can you blame the Greeks? Australians are the most leveraged citizens on Earth, are things going to get 'austere' here? Apparently because wages and conditions are being erroded now and these are the 'good' times, when we have the best economy on the planet. If the rich borrow too much they go bankrupt; but it never seems to effect their lifestyle. Or their business goes into liquidation, but they are not their business, that's a seperate entity. They start another one. Looks to be a good system. One the Greeks should try. Of course their German bankers want to control them and bleed them. Well silly investors have only themselves to blame. F;ck 'growth' and all who sail on her. A game of MONOPOLYtm cannot last forever, even when the 'winners' refuse to accept they've won and keep the game going by 'letting off' and lending more. Sooner or later frustration builds and the board goes in the air. Capitalism is the concentration of money into bigger and bigger parcels, it's not an infinite process. Greeks are not to blame for the way the dice roll. Edit: Hey Pansi, watched your video after posting, great minds think alike  Grin

Its not easy to face reality, but it is worth it.

An easy few grand I suppose if you have faith in how people will react.

Amadd wrote on Jun 19^th, 2012 at 10:44am:

An easy few grand I suppose if you have faith in how people will react.

God knows what that's supposed to mean  ;D

Meanwhile, back on topic.

Greece have chosen a right wing government. 

This is interesting because the greek budget does not have a problem with government spend. It does have a problem with government revenue (ie tax).

How does the low-taxing right wing government deal with an insufficient tax base ?

angeleyes wrote on Jun 19^th, 2012 at 9:24am:

When the EU was formed the rules and regulations weren't followed by certain countries. They are the countries now in strife.

You may find that the EU was aware that some of the countries now in MOST strife, did not meet the initial rules and regulations, to join in the EURO fun, but the EU view was that they couldn't get under way, without the likes of Italy, Spain & to a lesser extent Portugal, so the EU bent their own rules and allowed them in.

The other issue was/is, what these and other countries, including Greece have reported before & after joining the EU and with Greece (in particular), they had the "assistance" of some major banks (including Goldman Sucks), which "may" have "bent" the rules "greatly".

In any event, even those countries whom are supposedly strong, such as Germany, France, the UK & the USA, are far from strong with Debt to GDP ratio's currently around 80%, 90%, 85% & 105% respectively. There are many interpretations & variations on these figures, but the following site may give some indications on current figures, although I would completely disregard their future projections, as they are likely to be worthless, come next year! 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_future_gross_government_debt 

As a comparison, Japan is current around 240% & Greece around 190%, whereas Australian, notwithstanding the usual Political banter, is actually very well placed, at around 20%.

It is worth noting that the country with the greatest Debt to GDP ratio, being Japan, is the country who started the greying of their population some 15 years prior to the rest of the world.

In fact, the Japanese trend is well worth looking at & keeping in mind. Their share market now sits at some 22% of its 1989 peak
http://au.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=^N225#symbol=^n225;range=my;compare=;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined; 

And, the Japanese real estate market is still a long way under its 1990 peak.
http://www.thebubblebubble.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Japan-Real-Estate-Prices.jpg

The Japanese trend came largely because of the Aging Demographics and it also came despite a robust world Economy, which had not yet been hit by their own  Aging Demographics, nor by Energy Supply shortages, nor by the nastier side of the changes to the Global Climate.

It is therefore safe to surmise that the Global future will be at least on par, if not worse than the post 1990 Japanese experience!

of course the Greeks voted to bring in the austerity programme ... when they bugger up the EU, they'll do so from behind .... the EU may think that it's safe, but it's just delaying the inevitable ....